We visit elite TTPS units Inter Agency Task Force, and the Special Operations Response Team.
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LearningTranscript
00:00 Over the last seven episodes of On Patrol,
00:02 we've given you some insight into the tough task
00:05 of the TTPS on the front line to protect and serve.
00:09 It's not an easy calling,
00:10 and some just don't pass the test,
00:12 while others remain unsung heroes.
00:15 For this episode,
00:16 we tackle one of the most controversial topics,
00:19 not just here in TNT, but globally,
00:21 and that is excessive use of force,
00:24 as we show what force can and cannot be applied,
00:27 from neuromuscular incapacitation
00:30 to the final call for the Special Operations Response Team,
00:33 and when these actions are required.
00:35 This is On Patrol.
00:37 I'm Robert Duman.
00:38 Sir, what is happening at the car?
00:50 No, no, no.
00:51 You're not supposed to be here.
00:52 Sir, you're not supposed to be here.
00:54 You're not supposed to be here.
00:56 Sir, you're not supposed to be here.
00:58 He strikes.
00:59 I take it.
01:00 Get up, get up, get up.
01:02 I control him because he has nowhere,
01:05 nowhere is my knee on his neck or his spine.
01:10 My knee is across the body on the knees of his back.
01:14 I have control.
01:15 I don't need to put in more stress than is necessary.
01:20 If he tries to move, he's locked.
01:21 The instructors just showed you,
01:23 look at the issue of how the individual was,
01:26 and where the knee was in comparison
01:27 to what you saw in Minneapolis.
01:29 But posters would not see that.
01:30 They would automatically try to draw a link.
01:32 And I think that is unfortunate.
01:34 I fully understand Mr. Kamon and Mr. Awakos concern.
01:39 And I give you assurance that we try to be open service.
01:43 We are not the enemy.
01:45 We do not have the same type of situation in the United States
01:48 that we have, that is here in Trinidad today.
01:51 No, we are saying that we have an additional tool.
01:54 Rather than using our firearms sometime when we have,
01:56 when we could have used something else.
01:58 Not that we were wrong in using our firearm.
02:00 Some of us are eager to shoot a man.
02:03 We want to know what it feels like, right?
02:05 But really and truly, it's not the best thing in the world
02:07 to play tennis and shoot somebody.
02:09 And we have persons who are seated here
02:10 who have done that already.
02:12 But this, because when you shoot a man,
02:18 that's not all.
02:19 It is easy to pull the trigger if you play cards.
02:22 So when we come to our training,
02:23 what we bring you here for is for you to experience
02:26 what it feels like to begin with.
02:28 So when you go to court, you already know what it feels like.
02:31 You know how the suspect feels.
02:33 So the suspect cannot tell you something that is not there.
02:39 So the moon and you know, we have some nice excuses.
02:42 Further to that, when you come to the practical training here,
02:45 you actually get the opportunity to fire the weapon.
02:50 Some persons would fire on each other
02:51 or as we under control circumstances.
02:54 So I would not hesitate or should not hesitate
02:56 when it comes to use to actually fire at a human.
03:00 If you want to take it over right here,
03:02 you don't need to get any more glass
03:03 because I already experienced that already.
03:05 There's nothing mandatory that you must be shot with the device.
03:09 It is advisable because it's a non-lethal
03:11 that you will understand the circumstances.
03:14 One of the main thing of that is understanding
03:16 what you have available to you.
03:18 This tool here, I guarantee you,
03:20 this could take down... Some alternative.
03:22 ..an alternative to that. This will take down all the...
03:24 ..the police fights and the scramble
03:26 and you're wicked and pulling away.
03:28 And you know what happens when we have things like that.
03:31 So there should be no longer confrontation
03:33 where you would see police officers
03:35 struggling to arrest persons,
03:36 pushing persons, who pulling, who necking a lock,
03:38 who pulling away a prisoner.
03:40 This would be the device to separate that.
03:42 Right, so this is the device you're going to point at,
03:44 at least 45 degrees to the ground.
03:46 The cartridge come with...like this.
03:48 You can place your thumb and your index finger.
03:50 There's no need for your hands to go to the front of the device.
03:53 Here, and the cartridge goes in.
03:55 That's the officers need to do this on a daily basis
03:58 and record the time that they do this.
04:00 (SHOTGUN BLASTS)
04:03 Right, so we talk about four metres,
04:06 which is about 14 feet thereabouts,
04:08 so we average about here.
04:10 I'm up.
04:11 Same...loading.
04:13 Now, I talk about the laser, right?
04:16 So I'm up here with my laser.
04:18 Look which part the laser falls.
04:19 This would be a good area.
04:21 So here, shock, shock, shock.
04:23 (SHOTGUN BLASTS)
04:25 Five seconds.
04:30 Now, remember...
04:32 And you can put this one time.
04:33 Remember I told you, if the person is still...
04:37 He's on the ground now, but at this stage,
04:38 he's still fighting up at another office, all right?
04:41 There's a way I can use this secondary device.
04:43 So I'll move up on him here.
04:44 Not among the cables.
04:46 Here.
04:47 (SHOTGUN BLASTS)
04:49 And that could be used as a stun part.
04:53 Pain compliant.
04:54 So even though he's with the officer on the ground,
04:56 I do not need to deploy one of these again.
04:58 I can touch him with the arm device.
05:00 For training purpose, we want to see if on cartridges and so forth,
05:03 so you can do what you are pin-up.
05:05 Where the darts are displaced, the cartridge is already fired.
05:08 So it is placed in the arm, participant,
05:10 to the top shoulder, to his left foot,
05:12 to the bottom by his left foot.
05:14 This is really for training purposes,
05:16 but where it is...
05:18 The darts are placed, encompasses most of his muscle.
05:22 So we're going to see a different reaction from him to others.
05:25 Right?
05:26 Shot, shot, shot.
05:28 (SHOTGUN BLASTS)
05:29 Fight it, fight it.
05:30 (SHOTGUN BLASTS)
05:31 (SHOTGUN BLASTS)
05:33 (APPLAUSE)
05:35 Well done.
05:37 Any time during the application of that,
05:39 could you have done anything?
05:40 I've been fighting with muscle.
05:42 You felt it, could I pull it off?
05:44 (SHOTGUN BLASTS)
05:46 No.
05:47 Could you have moved, run, jump?
05:50 All you wanted to do was what?
05:52 Easy pain.
05:54 Can a person die from being tasered or sparked?
05:57 From the records, when we did the training,
06:01 before arm, it was 0.0001.
06:05 So it's very difficult.
06:07 No, you cannot die from the taser.
06:08 You should not die from the taser.
06:10 However, you can die as a result of being shocked.
06:13 I want to remove the word "taser"
06:15 because if you were to be shocked,
06:17 and we have some areas that is no-no,
06:19 on the edge of a swimming pool,
06:20 if you have no control of your muscle,
06:24 your muscles, and you're falling on a swimming pool,
06:25 what is it like?
06:26 Drowned.
06:27 You're climbing up a ladder.
06:28 Right.
06:29 Height, you fall as a result, you cut your head,
06:31 you're running on the edge of a wall,
06:33 or you're at the top of a staircase,
06:34 and these are no-nos.
06:35 It's quite clear in our policy,
06:37 which the Commission of Police has set out a policy,
06:40 when this device should be used.
06:42 When the person is being aggressive to an officer,
06:46 aggressive, actively resisting an officer or another person,
06:51 so this is when we are authorized to use it.
06:53 So if I start a curse, you could put two on me?
06:56 Not being aggressive, would Scar be aggressive?
06:58 Right?
07:00 Using it for more than 10 seconds, 15 seconds,
07:02 is a no-no,
07:03 because it will appear to be, what, excessive force.
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08:23 Um, yeah, there you go. On patrol.
08:26 [laughter]
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08:36 ♪♪♪
08:45 Thank you for staying with us.
08:46 Let me alleviate your fears.
08:47 I'm okay after that tease.
08:49 I'm up and running and ready for an action-packed show.
08:52 We have a lot going on.
08:53 We have my co-host, the Police Commissioner,
08:56 Gary Griffith, with us on set,
08:58 as well as we'll be looking at SORT later on in the show.
09:01 We had a training session with them.
09:03 And we'll be taking your calls later on in this particular segment.
09:06 We're going for an hour this time, so we're going from 8 to 9.
09:10 And as I said, it's an action-packed show.
09:12 Commissioner, thank you once again for being with us.
09:14 I am okay.
09:15 I know I could see the concern on your face.
09:18 Classic.
09:19 The question is why, but, you know, TV.
09:22 Commissioner, at this moment in the U.S.,
09:25 there's a defunding of the police service.
09:28 And in Trinidad and Tobago,
09:30 under the Minister of National Security,
09:32 you've been given a lot of access
09:34 to be able to acquire both lethal and nonlethal weapons.
09:38 What do you make of the calls,
09:40 and do they particularly apply here?
09:42 Well, definitely.
09:43 It is not just about lethal and nonlethal weapons.
09:46 Since my term in office, I understand the importance
09:49 for the police service to have that minimum use of force policy.
09:52 I pushed it from day one.
09:54 What happened in Minneapolis,
09:56 that was something that was just waiting to happen.
09:58 It is not just about the weapons.
10:00 It is about training, getting police officers to understand
10:02 how it is that you can use from verbal persuasion,
10:05 understand the situation, know how not to escalate a situation.
10:09 Even what took place at the Queen's Park, Savannah today,
10:11 people actually, they are --
10:13 Now it has reached a point where people are saying
10:14 we should have arrested all of those persons in the Savannah
10:16 for how they operated.
10:17 Everything, you have to look at it.
10:19 And sometimes what we have with our officers,
10:21 we are training them now to understand
10:23 how to deal with the crowd, how to speak to persons.
10:25 And then after, now for the first time,
10:27 you have minimum use of force.
10:29 It is not just the tasers and the pepper spray,
10:31 but also the baton.
10:32 Years gone by, it would be known as a bouton.
10:34 You would beat persons into submission.
10:36 You saw the Rodney King and so forth.
10:38 Our police officers are being trained to understand
10:40 how to use a baton in the minimum use of force policy,
10:43 not as a pain-compliant method,
10:45 but to be able to hold the person, restrain them,
10:47 to ensure that they are not injured,
10:49 and also that of the police officer.
10:50 So the police officers, we will have a knee on the person's back
10:53 if it is that they are trying to resist arrest,
10:55 not on their neck.
10:56 So, Commissioner, like in today's incidents,
10:59 of course, for the most part, the protest was peaceful.
11:02 You actually gave them more leeway in terms of five --
11:05 the initial request was for five persons gathered,
11:07 and as you pointed out, there were more than 500.
11:10 Then we saw that incident where a man approached a police officer
11:13 and flicked his hat, which is, you know, a show of aggression almost,
11:17 and, you know, could be seen as inciting.
11:20 Would a teaser be used at that point,
11:22 or what are your thoughts on that incident?
11:24 This situation here, look at it.
11:25 Just watch the aggression.
11:26 Check, check, check for 12-man Abu Bakr.
11:28 Watch him.
11:29 Watch it and look at the action.
11:31 Watch, look at it on touching the camera of the police officer.
11:34 You will see the aggression, cursing, abusing,
11:36 and there are certain persons who are now very offended
11:39 by the fact that why does the police allow this to take place.
11:42 But let me tell you something.
11:44 There's not by chance that I was trained in a very good academy abroad
11:47 in dealing with these situations.
11:49 These individuals, well, watch him, watch the clone.
11:51 This was a ticking time bomb.
11:52 They were trying to play us.
11:54 They wanted to beat us into making a decision
11:56 so that they could say that Trinidad and Tobago is just like the world.
11:59 We are not. We are different.
12:01 Our officers did not take that beat.
12:03 Mind you, I would like the public to let us know who that individual is
12:06 that actually took the hat.
12:08 We are trying to find him.
12:09 We would like to have a conversation with him and the other persons.
12:11 But at that time, I was not going to have the police beating into a situation.
12:15 What we did--
12:16 So at this point, he's a person of interest.
12:17 Yes, definitely.
12:18 So the police--I saw the--I asked the police officers,
12:20 "Remove the weapons," so they can't say,
12:22 "Why do you have these weapons?"
12:23 because it is a peaceful demonstration.
12:25 Two, they made a request to say it was only five persons.
12:27 They turned up with hundreds.
12:29 Three, they started removing their masks.
12:32 Four, they started converging on masks, breaching the regulations.
12:35 Five, they stayed after 4 p.m.
12:37 They started doing every single thing possible
12:40 in the anticipation that the police would do something to say,
12:42 "Aha, this is what we're telling you about."
12:44 I did not take the beat.
12:46 And you made a powerful statement.
12:47 You said you stand with them.
12:48 Yeah, we stand because the police stands in solidarity with Black Lives Matter
12:52 because we understand the hurt.
12:54 We understand the pain worldwide.
12:55 So we are part of it.
12:56 We are here to work with the public.
12:58 But that there was certain individuals--not all of them,
13:02 but some of them went there with an agenda.
13:04 And I saw it, and I was not going to be played and be baited by them.
13:08 But this year, it's a show to the public.
13:11 This is what we are speaking about.
13:13 They clip the hat of a black life, a black police officer.
13:16 But this is what it is we speak about,
13:19 where persons will try to use this time of emotion
13:22 to try to make themselves relevant, to try to justify something.
13:26 And I was not going to be baited.
13:27 What I have done now is to expose these individuals and others in this country
13:31 to understand what the police have to encounter.
13:33 We try to be calm, we try to be controlled.
13:35 And what they do is they take our meekness for weakness.
13:38 We have to be very careful.
13:39 But one thing I will note is how persons break the law and deliberately try to set up the police.
13:43 They failed.
13:44 Let me get the producer just to bring back up that clip there.
13:46 As the person is now a person of interest for the TTPS,
13:49 just to bring back that footage to show the incitement by that particular individual
13:54 as the commissioner pointed out, to bait the police.
13:57 Okay, well, we're having a couple issues there.
14:01 Commissioner, as we come back to the issue with regards to tasers,
14:05 is there a special legislation required?
14:08 So, for example, I got shocked.
14:09 Is there a recourse?
14:10 Should I be shocked in having done something?
14:14 Well, in the training for tasers, in some countries what they do is that the police officer,
14:18 it's all been shown there.
14:20 And again, you look at it, the individual in the blue jersey and the cap,
14:25 you saw the aggression, you saw the attitude.
14:30 This is not the police.
14:31 So when it is that they see how people get on, arrogant, obnoxious,
14:34 look at them, just watch them, cursing, abusing.
14:37 This is what you call mob rule.
14:39 They tried out wolf pack syndrome, they got aggressive.
14:41 And then the guy with the blue hat and the blue jersey, watch him, he takes it off.
14:45 I find he looks like DCP Haksha, you know, but he's not.
14:47 There he goes.
14:49 Where are the other officers at this point?
14:51 I made sure that the officers were on the outskirts.
14:54 And this is where it is, when this request was made,
14:57 you must get permission from the commission of police for public assembly,
15:00 for protests, placards, and so forth.
15:02 The request was made, and that's why the police were there.
15:06 The police, I will give you the permission.
15:08 I am not in any way what we have seen worldwide.
15:10 Had this been in another country, you would have seen tear gas,
15:13 persons being arrested, handcuffs.
15:16 I made sure that the police, we are here to protect, we are here to work with the public.
15:20 We know the hurt that people have, we know the pain.
15:22 What this has shown is a professional police service that we will not beated,
15:26 we will not be set up by anyone.
15:28 Whilst being there, however, we are there to ensure that law and order was maintained,
15:32 traffic congestion, and making sure that, again,
15:34 you could have sometimes you could have persons that would have come in protest of the protesters.
15:38 That is why it is important you need to get the requisite approval from the commission of police.
15:43 They asked for it, I provided it, and I provided the police to support them.
15:47 Just to come back to the special legislation, with regards to the tasers.
15:51 Yeah, the tasers, yeah.
15:52 So, through the police service, we have that authority.
15:55 But before anyone could use a taser, they must be trained.
15:59 It does not mean, as in other countries, sometimes the person has to be actually hit with the taser
16:04 to understand how it is to be used.
16:06 The taser is the last resort before you get into that firearm, because you also have rubber bullets.
16:12 Or conductive electrical weapon, as we found out, taser zebran.
16:15 Well, yeah, taser zebran, CW, it is actually known as, just like pampers.
16:19 So, it is a CW.
16:21 And with that, now, that is the last line.
16:23 But people need, and again, many persons need to understand, very soon, the next few shows that you will have,
16:29 we would like to take you into the simulation theatre to show to the public what a police officer has to encounter.
16:34 He has one or two seconds to make a judgement call.
16:37 A man can be challenging him, he puts his hands in his pocket, you think it is a firearm, he draws and it is a cell phone.
16:42 You are waiting to see if it is a cell phone, it is a firearm.
16:44 So, there are many different scenarios.
16:46 So, the average person could sit back and judge the police officers.
16:50 Don't judge us because you have never been in our shoes to understand what they have to go through in life and death situation.
16:55 The taser, the pepper spray, the treatment of the batons as not pain compliant,
17:00 are all systems that we use now to assist the police service to prevent us from reaching that last line, which is the firearm.
17:06 So, speaking of judgement, there is a public outcry now with the recent spate of murders, the triple murders.
17:11 Can you speak to that and, of course, where we are at with the investigations?
17:15 Well, with the last homicide, again,
17:18 many times in this country we love to find negativity.
17:21 It is very unfortunate.
17:23 And again, going back to your good station, Guardian Media.
17:27 Guardian Media, I remember in January, there were 60 murders in one month.
17:31 Faye Richards said, "A massive show here by CNC3. Wow, let's go for it because it is negative."
17:36 60 murders, okay, fair enough.
17:38 May was the lowest number of murders in this country in 60 months.
17:41 Not a word from Faye Richards and CNC3 because good news does not sell.
17:45 So, then you had six murders recently.
17:50 And in the six murders, the persons who complain about black lives do not matter.
17:54 They are not speaking about those six murders because the police officers are not involved.
17:56 But is it negativity, Commissioner, or is it a focus at that particular point on a particular subject?
18:01 Well, where is the focus?
18:03 To speak to the police, what caused it to be 24 murders in the month of May?
18:06 You try to call COVID, well, guess what?
18:08 Jamaica had 16 murders in 48 hours under COVID.
18:11 We had a state of emergency which pushes back the public even more.
18:15 And the crime was actually higher during the state of emergency.
18:18 It involved a lot of technical, tactical work done.
18:21 We are involved in teamwork. There's a lot of teamwork.
18:23 Even with the six murders, so CNC3 saw it fit.
18:25 Ah, six murders, the police are at fault.
18:28 But they will not speak about, there were two homicides in Tobago.
18:32 And within 48 hours, through the good work, teamwork is what the police are about now.
18:36 Through the research analytical unit, the SIU, the homicide unit, the SORT,
18:43 and different departments, all of them, the cybercrime unit,
18:47 all working together to be able to apprehend individuals in another island.
18:51 That is not news to CNC3. Instead, they speak about the six murders.
18:55 And I must add, this here is a situation where CNC3's editor, like he just got up this morning,
18:59 having nothing better to say, guardian, sorry, he says,
19:02 the police spend too much time dealing with COVID.
19:05 So because of the police dealing with COVID, whoever is your editorial person,
19:09 probably a six-year-old, said that that is what caused the six murders.
19:12 So the police, we are the cause of six persons being killed.
19:15 Not trying to explain and put in the police service of being able to solve the murders,
19:19 and above all, understanding that had it not been for the police officers,
19:23 if they had to judge police services around the world dealing with COVID,
19:27 we might be number one in the world.
19:28 We were the front line to assist in securing this country.
19:32 I remember the government gave officers a medal because of two days of security guard work
19:38 for the summit on Chugum.
19:39 Our police officers worked night and day for months to ensure that this country was locked down.
19:45 That is where a medal should be.
19:46 And instead of Guardian Media saluting our police officers,
19:49 they turn up on an editorial today to condemn the police service.
19:53 Commissioner, I get that the editorial has upset you,
19:56 but in regards to the negativity as CNC3 as a whole,
19:59 shows like this one, Patrol in particular, portray the good work that the--
20:03 Well, then let the Guardian, whoever is the editor, let Mr. Nicholas Sabger, Mr. Kissoon, Rosemary Sand,
20:08 whoever is the 60-year-old that wrote that this morning,
20:10 you don't--and there's something else they also added about the commissioner shouldn't have to be dealing with social media.
20:14 Anybody who's a reporter who's attacked in Guardian Media,
20:17 the Guardian Media group will circle the wagons to protect him or her, and it's their right.
20:22 Why should I not do this for my officers?
20:24 It is something called leadership.
20:25 Mr. Sabger, Rosemary Sand, they should understand that.
20:28 If you discredit--no, no, let me finish.
20:30 If you discredit my police officers, it is my right to stand up and defend them.
20:34 If a little pipsqueak decides to come and attack my police officers
20:37 and try to align police officers in killing someone,
20:40 it is my right to expose ignorance because I am here as a leader to defend my police officers.
20:45 That is my job.
20:46 And in local parlance, Guardian Media, the farce and all,
20:49 it's a place to be telling me I should not stand up to defend my officers.
20:53 All right, Commissioner, we're taking a short break now.
20:55 When we come back, of course, we'll be going straight to live footage that we took of a raid,
21:00 and, of course, we look at the Special Operations Response Team.
21:04 This is "On Patrol."
21:05 I'm Robert Dumas, and we're here with the Commissioner of Police, Gary Griffith.
21:08 [♪♪♪]
21:11 [♪♪♪]
21:21 [♪♪♪]
21:24 We're here at Komuto, the headquarters of the Special Operations Response Team,
21:37 or commonly known as S.O.R.T.
21:39 It's raining, and you know they say the only thing rain stops is cricket.
21:42 Well, the operatives operate in all types of weather,
21:46 and they're going to take us through some of the mission practices
21:52 that's probably never been seen before, and we're going to get a first-hand look at it.
21:57 [♪♪♪]
22:00 [♪♪♪]
22:03 Our mandate is to reduce the fear of crime
22:23 and stop bad guys from hurting innocent people.
22:29 That's our main role and function.
22:32 We are here--we are designed to support divisions, branches, and sections
22:39 to bring highly skilled, highly motivated officers to restore safety,
22:46 and it's part of the Commissioner's promise to the nation.
22:51 [♪♪♪]
22:57 [♪♪♪]
23:00 S.O.R.T. is a part of the National Security Framework.
23:11 They have different teams of the Defense Force
23:15 and of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service,
23:18 and it's one of the final option teams, right?
23:22 And we partner with the Defense Force, with their teams,
23:27 to deal with terrorism, hostage rescue, active shooters, and the list goes on.
23:39 That's why the in-depth training is so secretive.
23:43 [indistinct shouting]
23:46 [rain falling]
23:50 [gunfire]
23:53 S.O.R.T. advertise through the length and breadth of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service,
23:59 and if you desire to serve, you can write an application expressing your desire.
24:07 Upon getting that request from you,
24:11 you will be selected to undergo some physical assessment.
24:15 We'll be doing shooting assessment,
24:20 the ability to think under pressure, and a lot of survival methodologies.
24:26 It's an elimination all the way to the end.
24:30 [indistinct shouting]
24:33 Out of 100 persons, we may get seven operators.
24:43 So, it's hard.
24:46 It was meant to be hard.
24:48 You cannot succeed here based on friendship and favors.
24:55 You have to reach here and graduate here,
24:59 and every single officer has met the training requirement
25:04 that is recognized and documented,
25:09 and he is tested and retested to ensure that his standards are kept.
25:15 And when you graduate, we have reclassification
25:20 to ensure that your skills is current and up-to-date.
25:24 And we do a reclassification every three months.
25:28 And you must pass,
25:31 else you will be charged with cleaning the vehicles and cleaning our weapons.
25:36 [♪♪♪]
25:39 [gunshots]
25:41 [indistinct shouting]
25:44 [gunshots]
25:47 We have the first officer, female officer,
25:52 who has graduated as an operator.
25:55 [indistinct shouting]
25:58 [♪♪♪]
26:01 [gunshots]
26:05 [indistinct shouting]
26:07 That's a big achievement, because over the years,
26:10 a lot of women tried out, but they never make it all to the end.
26:14 And it is one of--
26:16 Mr. Gary Griffith, the commissioner of police,
26:19 is one of his mandates to have gender equality
26:22 to ensure that women can do this stuff.
26:26 Our training have to rise to the challenges of the enemy.
26:33 What we are up against is war on the streets of Trinidad and Tobago.
26:40 And they are shooting any and everybody who is looking for their target.
26:46 And we have to come into there, identify the threat,
26:51 stop the threat, render aid to all the injured,
26:54 and also deal with other information that has come,
26:58 because while we may deal with some of the threat,
27:01 other bad guys from on social media, you can see,
27:04 they will be shooting at us and running, and we still have to give chase to that.
27:08 Sometimes we get call to action.
27:11 And when there's a call to action, we don't have time for planning.
27:15 We have to rush and go.
27:17 There's an active shooting in progress.
27:19 The longer we stay to prep, the more lives is going to be lost.
27:23 So we have to be ready and to respond and to deal with the unknowns
27:28 and to bring safety and security to that bleeding community.
27:33 So that's the reason for our response.
27:35 That's the reason for our aggression.
27:38 We come to speed, control aggression,
27:42 to push back the will of the bad guys who are trying to induce fear upon our nation.
27:53 They're coming around in the vehicle and demonstrating to us a takedown.
27:58 So they're coming into fire. It's a kidnapping situation.
28:01 They're coming under fire, so they come out of the vehicle.
28:05 Fire's coming onto them. They diffuse the situation.
28:09 At the front!
28:12 [gunfire]
28:17 [shouting]
28:23 [gunfire]
28:28 [shouting]
28:31 [gunfire]
28:39 [shouting]
28:43 [gunfire]
28:56 [shouting]
28:58 [gunfire]
29:03 [shouting]
29:05 [gunfire]
29:11 [shouting]
29:14 [gunfire]
29:17 [shouting]
29:19 [gunfire]
29:21 [shouting]
29:23 [gunfire]
29:25 [music]
29:27 The truth is the commissioner police want safe spaces for every human being.
29:34 And we, the police department, have been a victim of violent crime.
29:41 One of our officers was executed and killed by a gang.
29:48 And we seek out and find the perpetrator.
29:54 And when we attempted to arrest the perpetrator, he open fired on us.
30:02 And we stop him from being a violent, evil person.
30:07 And then we quickly took him to the hospital to get medical attention.
30:15 [music]
30:18 [gunfire]
30:26 This is the final assault of a hostage rescue.
30:29 The assault operators won't let us go inside to follow them because there's a lot going on inside of here.
30:34 But one thing that we've learned is assault aren't the first option, they're the final one.
30:39 [shouting]
30:40 [gunfire]
30:46 [shouting]
30:49 [gunfire]
30:53 [shouting]
30:58 SORT is less than two years old and it's already one of the most recognized names in the police service.
31:04 They stand side by side with the police commissioner, protecting not just the top brass of the TTPS,
31:09 but all the citizens of the country through intelligence, surveillance, covert operations, overt assaults, and secret missions.
31:18 The team uses highly secretive training methods.
31:21 Most of course what you see here is tailored just for us.
31:25 Had SORT not been where they were, they could have been bloodshed.
31:29 Because of the immediate effectiveness of the special operation response team,
31:33 they were able to get to that location in less than 17 seconds.
31:36 If persons in the public want to choose to say we are Gary boys, I am happy that the commissioner is claiming the team.
31:43 It tells us that we are doing something right.
31:46 And we work for you.
31:49 We are employed by you.
31:52 So we have to rise to the challenges and we have to rise to the expectation that you expect of us.
31:59 And we are here to protect lives and save lives.
32:03 That's why we use action and we use force.
32:07 Move!
32:09 To restore safety and safe spaces for the community at large to move around.
32:15 And freedom is not free.
32:17 [Music]
32:23 I would have given up.
32:25 Well, Commissioner, shortly after we had that one of those training sessions, there was a call to action.
32:31 Of course SORT got intelligence of a murder suspect in La Hocata.
32:36 We have the actual raid footage. If you'd speak to it.
32:39 Yeah, sure. You're going to play it?
32:41 I'm playing now.
32:44 And again, this here was due to, again, teamwork.
32:47 What we have formed now is a unit dealing with investigation.
32:51 And it involves the research analytical team unit, the SIU, the cyber crime unit, the homicide unit.
32:58 It all led to this here with SORT actually doing the final extraction.
33:03 Hands, hands. Get down on the ground. Get down on the ground. Get down.
33:08 Tie shop. Tie shop. Continue clean. Continue clean.
33:13 This was immense work, again, conducted by different teams in Toronto Naval Police Service.
33:18 This is what you call teamwork. And this is what you hope that the media and others will look at.
33:22 An incident took place on one island and within 48 hours on another island,
33:27 we were able to get all of this until we came to what you see now.
33:31 [Indistinct]
33:39 Now, mind you, they have situations like this with SORT.
33:42 When this takes place, sometimes they resist, they retaliate, they shoot.
33:46 And when we shoot back, then you're going to see the lady with the towel wrapped around, bawling out,
33:51 "Oh, you're too wicked!" Well, it didn't happen this time around.
33:56 Why didn't it happen this time around?
33:58 Well, in this situation, the way this operation was,
34:02 the individuals, they didn't have a firearm, they didn't have access to a firearm.
34:06 We can't speak on behalf of what will happen in every single operation.
34:09 Sometimes they'll just be on a patrol, and once they're on patrol,
34:13 going into a volatile situation, that is when it is that they will be shot at.
34:16 So there will be a number of different situations.
34:19 But going back again to the type of investigative work,
34:22 there have been more murders solved this year within five months than for all of last year.
34:27 And that is where I speak about good news is never spoken about, never discussed it.
34:31 Most murders now, as soon as the murders take place, because of the different units that we have.
34:36 We have from the CCTV team, the command team, the SIU, working with the SSA, the CID unit,
34:42 all sorts of different analysts, research analytical unit, the cybercrime unit,
34:46 everyone working together. And then after we come up to the--we see what is happening,
34:50 and then after we go to the operational unit, whether it is a task force, the stations, all sorts.
34:54 What about the investigations after one of these takedowns,
34:58 or in certain cases where there's--you know, it's a lethal incident?
35:03 Well, again, this way it is. You have the forensic testing,
35:07 the ballistic testing that will take place.
35:10 And which is, again, it goes back to the situation.
35:12 If you want to solve crime, on most occasions you need that human intelligence.
35:16 The public, no one ever sees anything. The 538 murders, no one.
35:20 Everybody runs. We have Schultz and Hogan's heroes. They know nothing.
35:23 They never see anything. Only when a police is involved in the shooting,
35:27 everyone gets bionicized. They see three steps ahead, three different buildings behind.
35:31 Even when we go back to the coroner's situation,
35:34 we see there's an individual with a political party, three people,
35:37 and he's trying to link the killing of a young girl and trying to call her name.
35:41 You are bringing back the hurt and the pain of a family. Because of what?
35:45 To try to impress who? A family is traumatized.
35:48 A police officer's bullet cracked his chest. His vest saved him.
35:53 And had that vest not been here, would he have been crying about Black Lives Matter then as well?
35:58 Are psyche vials done and the code of conduct looked at?
36:02 For an officer after an incident like that?
36:05 Yeah, definitely. Again, we are from EAP. We have the counseling.
36:08 We evaluate the officer. The weapon obviously is taken.
36:11 We do the ballistic testing of it. But what the public needs to understand
36:14 is that we are not the enemy. It goes back to what you just saw there.
36:17 When people speak about Black Lives Matter,
36:20 we speak about 500 black lives we lost last year. The police didn't kill them.
36:23 There are about 300 criminal elements out there.
36:26 And what we do is we start up as the forefront to chest strap the bullets, literally,
36:30 to protect other black lives. So it means that our officers, they are the heroes.
36:35 They are going out there every night prepared to take a bullet for a stranger,
36:39 to deal with the 300-odd shooters, the criminals, who want to kill other blacks.
36:44 Black lives. Take black lives. And you're attacking the heroes
36:47 who are out there on the front line for you? That is very unfair.
36:50 It is sometimes that you need to understand who are the heroes, who is the enemy.
36:54 We're not the enemy. And mind you, this is not to say that they are not bad police officers.
36:58 Police come from society. But the fact is, I have openly stated
37:02 that any police officer charged for murder, rape, kidnapping should be immediately fired.
37:06 I am getting a fight done by it. It happens with other police chiefs around the world at this time.
37:11 This same individual from Minneapolis, there are reports that there were several other occasions
37:15 similar to what took place. Guess what? His unions and everyone fought and fought
37:19 for him to get back into the system. I would like to see a system that will give me the opportunity
37:23 as Commissioner of Police to fire without having every single Tom Dick and association
37:28 trying to tell me, no, he has a right to have his day in court.
37:31 So until then, keep having him being paid as a police officer,
37:35 and maybe sometimes bring him back into the service.
37:37 All right, we take a short break. When we come back, we talk to TNT.
37:41 The numbers are there up on your screen. 624-8721 and 627-8658.
37:46 It's Talk TNT. And of course, we chat in a lot more with the Commissioner of Police.
37:50 Gary Griffith, stay with us.
38:05 Thank you for staying with us here on On Patrol. I'm Robert Dumas,
38:07 and with me is co-host of the show tonight, Police Commissioner Gary Griffith.
38:11 The numbers are there up on your screen. 624-8721 and 627-8658.
38:16 The topic for tonight is use of force. We have a caller on the line.
38:20 The caller is from Mount Lombard. Caller, good evening.
38:23 Hello, good evening. Robert, and good evening to you, Mr. Commissioner.
38:29 Good evening.
38:30 I just want to—I do have a question. I just want to compliment you for the work that you're doing.
38:36 As many people understand what it is.
38:39 Remember when people who talk in there, you never had a gun pointed at them,
38:43 so they don't understand.
38:45 And when we are in crucial times, you need to be of attitude, because the bandits are not going to play,
38:52 put the footer wrong or play with any powder puffs.
38:57 They're coming hard, and you have to push back hard.
39:00 So thank you for your service.
39:02 Commissioner, as the gentleman just mentioned about the criminal element coming hard,
39:09 one of the things that we were discussing, of course,
39:11 is the involvement with the criminal element in Black Lives Matter.
39:15 Yeah, definitely. Worldwide, there's a concern now of Black Lives Matter.
39:19 And the police, we support this. We understand this.
39:22 We are part of this.
39:24 And that's why we'll give the support when persons want to protest.
39:27 We are not going to be there to try to prevent it, as you see with other police services.
39:31 But what is happening now, remember I said there are a couple hundred shooters
39:36 who have killed 500 black lives last year and over 5,000 black lives in the last decade.
39:41 Those 5,000 black lives were lost not by police officers, but by those 300, 400 shooters.
39:47 Individuals who control these are trying to use the situation of Black Lives Matter
39:52 to try to put pressure on police officers for the police now to second-guess
39:57 if they are going to a firefight.
39:59 That one-second hesitation is going to cost my officer his or her life.
40:03 So we need to be very careful when we try to look at what is happening in the United States.
40:07 This here is a war zone in this country.
40:10 There are hundreds of shooters out there. Their intent is to kill.
40:13 They have killed over 5,000 black lives in the last decade.
40:16 And that is where the concern should be.
40:18 So with that, persons best be careful that they do not be baited by individuals
40:23 who want to try to pull back the police officers
40:25 so that those other criminals could kill more black lives.
40:28 I definitely want to talk a bit more about that just now, Commissioner.
40:31 We have a call on the line from Tobago. Caller, good evening.
40:34 Good evening. With respect to the use of force, how is the police dealing?
40:42 Because there have been a couple of situations.
40:44 How do the police deal with someone that they are approaching,
40:47 that they have approached, that cannot hear, that relies on sign language?
40:52 Is the police being trained in terms of recognizing sign language or deaf people
40:58 so they can relate to them before they exercise any kind of force?
41:03 Because these people are not too aware of how to relate their situation.
41:09 Yeah, I understand. But there's no police service in the world
41:12 that will teach every single police officer sign language.
41:15 Again, individuals, they could be blind. Sometimes they may have some disability.
41:19 Mental illness? Yeah, exactly.
41:21 What the police officers will be trained to do is to pick it up as quickly as possible
41:24 and then try to realign their strategy and their tactics
41:27 in knowing how to deal with this individual based on the situation.
41:30 But it's not that every police officer is going to be trained
41:32 in knowing how to deal with every single matter perfectly.
41:35 But they will be able to pick up the red flags, and by picking up the red flags,
41:39 it will now shift in their operational procedure and how they deal with the individual.
41:43 Would the use of a CW be appropriate in this case?
41:46 Yes and no. It all depends on the individual, how the individual is going to operate.
41:50 Let's not fool ourselves to think that a taser is just something automatically you just shoot.
41:53 The officer has to also look to align himself.
41:56 If you're at a street corner, and I'm here, and I shoot you, and I use a taser,
42:00 it will not kill you, but you will drop and you run, you could be killed.
42:03 So it's a lot of training with police officers, and again, even with the individual.
42:06 So it's not that if somebody is just being aggressive, we just automatically,
42:09 you're going to use a taser. We have to use minimum force as much as possible,
42:14 especially in the world now. It is a fight, it's a police fight now,
42:17 and the police is the worst thing in the world.
42:19 We have to make sure we are not baited by anyone, that we will do something and go overboard.
42:24 We have a call on the line from Barataria. Good evening.
42:27 Good evening.
42:29 Good evening.
42:30 Good evening.
42:31 Hi. Question?
42:33 I have a question for the commissioner.
42:35 Go ahead.
42:36 The commissioner just called to congratulate you on the good work you're doing.
42:41 Mr. Griffith.
42:43 Thank you.
42:45 What's the question?
42:46 You did a fantastic job.
42:49 Thank you very much.
42:50 But again, it's not myself. Again, these officers, I really hope some people will consider.
42:54 The Guardian headline editorial should be "Medals for Toronto-Bagel Police Service."
42:59 They have stood up. They have locked down this country dealing with COVID.
43:03 We have been able to fight, and these officers go out there every night.
43:06 They left their families every night, sometimes 18 hours on patrol,
43:09 going back and forth to the street to assist.
43:12 We have a call on the line from La Hocota. Good evening.
43:17 Good evening.
43:19 Commissioner, I want to go back to the topic of the criminal elements and the recruitment processes
43:25 and some of the dreams that they may be selling these youngsters,
43:29 yet still their state may be still left in one of poverty.
43:34 What do you say to that, and what is the draw?
43:38 Again, going back, that is the fight back we should get.
43:42 The Black Lives Matter should be every whole country, regardless of who you are, where you live.
43:47 Those are the persons we should be looking at the criminal elements, not the police service.
43:53 Again, what these individuals do, sometimes young persons have all these gadgets,
43:59 all these different games, and they have the different things put in, with firearms and so forth.
44:04 The criminal elements will lure young black men to come in to become gang members,
44:09 give them false promises with all sorts of fancy gadgets, clothes and whatever.
44:13 But if you look at the shooters, these shooters have two different size side slippers,
44:18 with a three-quarter pants and an old white vest.
44:20 So, they are not benefiting from these criminal elements.
44:24 It goes right back to what the public needs to understand.
44:26 The Black Lives Matter, the individuals who pay these shooters,
44:29 who continue to make big money through the funds they get from criminal activity,
44:34 those are the persons we should be targeting and having some degree of animosity for, not the police officers.
44:41 We have a caller from Barakpur. Good evening.
44:43 Good evening.
44:44 Good evening.
44:45 Good evening.
44:46 We're hearing you.
44:49 I'm calling from Barakpur.
44:53 Yes.
44:54 Can you turn on your TV, Atad?
44:57 Huh?
44:58 What's your question?
45:00 Good evening.
45:01 I'll be hearing you.
45:02 I want to say to the Commissioner,
45:06 I want to say to the Commissioner that he has done the greatest job in all the Commissioner.
45:17 All right, we'll think.
45:19 Thank you.
45:21 Thank you.
45:22 Robert, again, I really hope that one day, I mean, the polls I've done with myself and the police service,
45:29 I will give up all of the perception that the public has of me.
45:34 I will give it up in a night.
45:36 If it is that it can be shifted towards the support that we can have of the police service, that is not me.
45:41 These officers out there, it is a transformed police service.
45:44 The spirit, the heart, the motivation, the morale,
45:46 they want to go out there, they want to protect and serve with pride.
45:49 What hurts them is to have the same public that they are willing to take a bullet for,
45:52 trying to condemn and demonize them,
45:54 and have little pipsqueaks trying to find avenues to try to put them in a negative light.
45:59 We are not the enemy, and I give the promise and the assurance to this country
46:02 that if we find individuals in the police service who would be like that, we would have them removed.
46:07 I certainly think that's a few keyboard warriors,
46:09 but for the most part, judging by some of the feedback that we've had right here on patrol,
46:13 on the social media and so on, the people really appreciate what the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service do in general,
46:19 and going, as you said, on the front line, day and night for us.
46:22 Well, not all the time. If you look at what happened in the Queensbark, Savannah today,
46:25 what you saw was arrogance, persons trying to use Black Lives Matter for their own agenda.
46:30 You saw the bullying, you saw the attitude,
46:32 and if the police had gone forward to do what people expected and arrested individuals,
46:37 all of a sudden it would have been a total turn around.
46:39 Here the police, look at them, look how they get on. We are no different to Minneapolis.
46:43 They tried to play us, and they played their hand and they lost.
46:47 They were weighed, measured, and found wanting.
46:49 They tried something, but what we have done now,
46:51 we have exposed that people are using this whole process of Black Lives Matter for their own agenda,
46:56 and tried somehow to try to discredit the police. Today, they failed.
47:00 Commissioner, we have a caller from Five Rivers, but before we take that call,
47:03 would this stop further protests from happening in various other subjects?
47:08 Not at all. I would expect and ask the public, you need to stand up.
47:12 Let your voices be heard. That is your constitutional right.
47:15 This is by and large a black country, and we need to stand up.
47:18 Again, the police service, we stand in solidarity.
47:20 We are here to work and to give you that support, and we will also do the same thing.
47:25 But it does not mean that you must use the situation of Black Lives Matter
47:28 to try to market yourself politically, try to show you know that you're just arrogant.
47:33 Some of them, they hate the police attitude. You come in here, hate the police attitude.
47:37 We don't need to speak to individuals like that. You already set your tone.
47:40 Persons who are not sure, we promise you we have made mistakes. We intend to improve.
47:44 We have a call from Five Rivers. Good evening.
47:47 Thank you for holding.
47:50 How are you?
47:51 I'm good. Thank you. Yourself?
47:52 Okay. A question for you, Mr. Demas, and a question for Commissioner of the Police.
47:58 Now, sir, you speak about black and white, which I do agree with you.
48:05 But if you watch behind Mr. Demas, there's no patrol, right?
48:13 It is white and black.
48:15 And there's no white and black in Canada and the world, because if you paint yourself in black,
48:23 then you will be a black person.
48:26 If you paint yourself in white, you will be a white person. Okay?
48:31 There's colored person. Okay?
48:34 Take your blood, take my blood.
48:36 Thank you.
48:37 Thank you for your call.
48:38 Okay, then.
48:42 Do you wish to respond?
48:45 I was much more intelligent two minutes ago in my life than I am now.
48:50 We do have another call. Caller, good evening.
48:53 Hi. Good evening.
48:54 Good evening.
48:55 I have a question for the Commissioner of Police.
48:57 Commissioner, every time we read a newspaper, we always read about the police went on an exercise
49:03 and they found this crime in action or they find a huge field of marijuana.
49:10 But they always seem to find these mishaps when they're on a police exercise.
49:16 Can you tell us what a police exercise is?
49:19 And my next question quickly is, you know that whole Black Lives Matter,
49:23 it is about corruption in the police department and you said you were going to fight it.
49:27 So if you could talk a little bit about that.
49:29 So she sees Black Lives Matter meaning corruption in the police service,
49:33 and that is what we speak about.
49:34 You automatically transcend that. Black Lives Matter means anti-police.
49:39 Black Lives Matter means police corruption.
49:41 And this is where we talk about the ignorance I'm trying to deal with.
49:44 You automatically label Black Lives--so the 538 people who were killed last year,
49:48 that was police corruption.
49:49 The 5,000 who were killed before, that was based on rogue police officers.
49:53 We need to open our eyes and understand who the true criminal is,
49:56 who's the element that affects our society.
49:59 Can you explain to us about the police exercise?
50:01 The exercise again, when we get intelligence, what happens now with many of these shooters,
50:06 they know that we know who they are, where they live.
50:10 So if it is we make a raid in their home, we find a weapon in their home,
50:13 we can take their wicket.
50:15 So what many persons, many of them do now is keep their weapons
50:18 under a piece of galvanized in a certain place,
50:20 so we get the tip-offs as to where they have it.
50:23 We will seize the firearms but not be able to link it to the individual.
50:27 We are trying our best to continue.
50:29 We seize almost two firearms every day.
50:31 We arrest many persons that are with firearms,
50:36 but you know the criminal justice system, they get a red carpet,
50:38 they come back out the next day.
50:40 As you mentioned wicket, it jogged my memory.
50:42 The sports desk, we have a question with regards to--
50:44 you gave permission for the national team to train.
50:46 What is there for other persons who may-- whether it be the recreational sweat,
50:52 is that going to be allowed?
50:54 In this situation, we are being flexible whilst not making sure
50:56 that we breach the regulations.
50:58 If you look at the regulations, it speaks about no more than five on a team.
51:03 So you play five-a-side football, so you could have 10 persons
51:05 playing five-a-side football.
51:07 We are not going to go hard and fast here.
51:09 What we are not-- it's not a situation as yet of 11-a-side
51:12 with a thousand spectators on the sideline.
51:14 But in this situation, the regulations, we are working to it
51:17 as it pertains to the national team.
51:19 Quite good enough that the national senior coach was proactive.
51:22 He realized what is happening.
51:24 What he's doing in his training is similar to what is being done in Europe,
51:27 and their regulations were just on par with us.
51:29 So you have assemblies, you have groups of five,
51:31 pocketed in different parts of the field, training together separately.
51:35 Everyone, their temperature is being taken, hands being washed,
51:38 adhering to the regulations, and that is it.
51:41 So it is not in contrast to what the manager of the Rangers team said.
51:45 He all of a sudden-- Mr. Ferguson felt that he was the minister of health
51:49 or the commissioner of police, and he said it's against the law.
51:51 It is not against the law what they were doing.
51:53 If other teams would like to do the same, they can write to me.
51:55 I will brief them to explain to them how to deal with it
51:58 as it pertains to persons playing sport.
52:00 You can play a little five-a-side football, whatever.
52:02 You want to have a one-goal combo, five persons stay on the sideline,
52:06 keep their distance.
52:08 So we are not breaching the regulations,
52:11 but there's a degree of flexibility as it pertains to sport now.
52:15 You certainly put a smile, I'm sure, on a lot of persons' faces.
52:18 We now take a short break.
52:19 When we come back, of course, we have the commissioner's message to the nation
52:22 and our closing thoughts.
52:23 Stay with us.
52:25 [♪♪♪]
52:27 Thank you for staying with us here on On Patrol.
52:37 Commissioner, your message to the nation?
52:39 The Trinidad and Tobago Police Service, we are here to work with you.
52:42 We understand the situation around the world
52:44 as it pertains to Black Lives Matter, and we agree with it.
52:48 We understand, we sympathize with what we have seen,
52:51 and we are here to support you.
52:53 We are not the enemy.
52:54 The enemy will be those who killed the 5,000 black lives in this country
52:57 over the last decade.
52:58 It wasn't police officers.
52:59 We lost some of our officers.
53:01 They were also black lives.
53:03 Work with us so we can work with you.
53:05 Let us try to put an end to the loss of so many lives in this country
53:09 through idiots who have illegal weapons.
53:13 We are here to stand up as a front line to help you,
53:15 the citizens of this great country.
53:17 We are not the enemy.
53:19 Let us work together as one.
53:22 Well, that's how we end our show and our season here on On Patrol.
53:26 For eight weeks, we've taken you inside the inner workings of the police service.
53:30 We began by discussing how officers handle domestic violence
53:33 and now how they intend to deal with the police brutality.
53:36 We've shown you how officers have been coping since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic
53:40 and how they're treating with the number of illegal guns on the streets
53:44 and what they've been doing to turn around the prevalence of crime
53:47 in areas such as Lavont Hill.
53:49 You've seen me get bitten by a dog, shocked by a taser,
53:53 and who knows what else we have in store for the next time.
53:56 Stay tuned for more.
53:57 I'm Robert Dumas on behalf of Police Commissioner Gary Griffith and his team.
54:01 Good night.
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55:07 (chimes)