The Big Stories || Parliamentary Business: The 8th parliament has become partisan - Dapilah
The Big Stories || Parliamentary Business: The 8th parliament has become partisan - Dapilah - JoyNews
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Transcript
00:00:00 Well thank you for staying with us and we get into our big stories. We segue
00:00:04 neatly from there from that engagement of the private sector with Yao En-sako, a
00:00:10 former executive vice president of Unilever and what he delivered yesterday
00:00:15 his verdict on the Fourth Republic. I'll be sharing some of those sentiments with
00:00:20 our guests for the morning but we have joining us for a conversation this
00:00:24 Wednesday morning. Again not for lack of engaging the other side. We have the
00:00:29 Member of Parliament for Drapa in the person of Cletus Dapila. He joins the
00:00:35 conversation. Mr. Dapila, a very good morning to you sir.
00:00:39 Good to have you. This is the very first time we're having an engagement on
00:00:43 this platform. What has Cletus been up to? We've not spoken in a long
00:00:51 while but as far as your constituency is concerned,
00:00:56 I do this to every Member of Parliament who comes here. Yeah that's fine. Good
00:01:00 morning once again to you and your distinguished viewers.
00:01:03 The name is Cletus Seydou Dapila. Cletus Seydou Dapila. Dapila is more.
00:01:11 Okay. That means I've been murdering someone's name for a
00:01:17 long time. A colleague of mine from university back then. Okay. Okay right. So
00:01:21 I am a young politician emerging from the Upper West Region, Drapa precisely.
00:01:28 I started party activism as a branch secretary, police station secretary,
00:01:35 constituency secretary. I moved up to the position of NADMO coordinator, district
00:01:41 chief executive. Then in 2018 I failed to be the regional secretary for the
00:01:49 Upper West Region. Then I went for parliamentary primaries in 2019 and got
00:01:55 the nod to represent the NDC party in the 2020 elections. That brought me to
00:02:00 Parliament. I almost three years in Parliament. I served in the Foreign
00:02:07 Affairs Committee of Parliament and the Judiciary Committee of Parliament. So
00:02:12 basically this work, Cletus, is made up of a teacher by profession who veered into
00:02:17 accountancy, HND accountancy, BBA accountancy, went to do a master's and
00:02:22 failed in a different portfolio, social administration. So that is Cletus for you.
00:02:27 Interesting background you have. But as far as your constituency is concerned
00:02:33 this is your first term? Yes, I'm a first-timer. Eighth Parliament. And I'd
00:02:38 just like to find out what is Drapa like currently? When was the last time you
00:02:43 went to Drapa? Oh, two weeks ago. Two weeks ago? Yes. What is Drapa like? What are some of
00:02:50 the challenges your people face? Do you have a one village, one dam project in
00:02:55 Drapa? It is, yeah, something like that was done somewhere in the Zapaniri area in
00:03:04 Drapa that is virtually gone. It's not even in existence again. It was virtually
00:03:14 like a duck out that the people even were very angry. It was an area that the
00:03:19 people could do rice farming and they came to destroy it. So they cannot do the
00:03:25 rice farming again and the project itself cannot be found. You know, a very
00:03:31 shoddy work that was done and money wasted. As a Member of Parliament have you
00:03:37 called for, I know there are some places in the Northern Belt where they are
00:03:40 calling recently. We've done a lot of stories on those on the back of our
00:03:43 latest hotline documentary Thirsty Dams where they are calling for more action
00:03:49 in terms of that. As a Member of Parliament are you going to do that for
00:03:52 your area on the back of this? Yes, surely. You know, look, Drapa is, mostly our
00:03:59 people are predominantly farmers. It's a farming constituency and most of them
00:04:07 would be very happy to have so many dams around so that they can engage in dry
00:04:13 season farming and sort of moving down south for greener pastures that doesn't
00:04:18 even exist. So it's one thing that we are looking at. Many of them are actually
00:04:25 into agriculture and they love the irrigation farming because, you know, we
00:04:30 have one season just after the one rainy season. And that is it, you don't get the
00:04:35 second rainy season. You don't get the second rain to even plant. So if we have these dams
00:04:40 available, I'm sure the youth are willing, the women are willing to make good use of
00:04:45 it. You go to certain areas where you have these dams, you get to realise that
00:04:50 the people around that area and those who don't even hail within that area are
00:04:57 making good use of the water available, you know, for all-round season farming.
00:05:04 You go to the Yaga area where we have the Black Volta belt, we have part of the
00:05:09 Black Volta running through my constituency. Many of them do dry season
00:05:14 farming and they get good yield. They get good yield. So dams will help a lot.
00:05:21 It will help a lot. The dams will help a lot and so you're going to be pushing
00:05:26 for your constituency as well. I will. Let's look at surrounding matters
00:05:35 from Parliament and others. There are so many things I want to run by you now I'm
00:05:38 even wondering from where to start. But maybe we should start with your verdict
00:05:42 on the eighth Parliament of which you're a member. You heard recently the Deputy
00:05:50 Speaker, first Deputy Speaker, Joe Sewusu, popularly known as Joe Wise, declare his
00:05:55 verdict on the eighth Parliament calling it the worst ever if not in this fourth
00:06:02 Republic on the back of some of the happenings, on the back of your side in
00:06:06 Parliament and how you've treated this Parliament in terms of hobbling
00:06:10 government business. In recent times you are one of those who have not been going
00:06:14 to Parliament right? Every time Dr. Kassia Latoufosin is in court, James
00:06:18 Jachikwesin, the Asun Sinn Loth legislator is in court, you boycott
00:06:22 Parliament and maybe later in the day some of you go sign up show that you
00:06:27 were in Parliament but you're hobbling government business. Why is that?
00:06:32 And what would be your verdict? My verdict on the eighth Parliament is
00:06:38 actually, is because of the partisan nature of our Parliament. The eighth
00:06:44 Parliament has become so partisan and I am not very comfortable about it because
00:06:52 you see, political parties, MPs contest on the ticket of political
00:07:01 parties but I also think that the MPs should be able to, they should have their
00:07:07 independent opinion about matters as far as our governance system is concerned.
00:07:13 But most often than not, political parties will have to show the way for
00:07:20 their parliamentary group or parliamentary caucus to follow.
00:07:25 Are you saying you'll follow the caucus blindly even if what is being
00:07:30 proffered is not what you think is in the national interest? Not blindly, individually I can express my opinion about an issue but
00:07:36 collectively I cannot. The whip system must work.
00:07:41 But it doesn't always work. There are breakaways. Look at, we try to say
00:07:47 that we want to model what happens in other jurisdictions, the US, the UK. Look
00:07:51 at what happened when the Speaker for Congress, I've forgotten his name, in the United
00:07:56 States, he was being elected on the Republican end. There were so many
00:07:59 Republicans against him. Look at the number of rounds they had to go to
00:08:03 before he won. Would that ever happen in a Ghanaian parliament? It happened. That's why we have an opposition.
00:08:11 I am saying the number of rounds, I mean the rigor of the process, this was a
00:08:15 one-off thing. Look at how it went there. But you notice a whole day for almost 24 hours running, we're struggling to elect a Speaker.
00:08:26 This took days, many days. I'm just saying that they have evolved to the point where, I'm not saying they are
00:08:31 perfect, they are far from perfect, but they've got to the point where they can,
00:08:35 even barring the whip system, stick to what their conscience tells them. When
00:08:41 are we going to get to that point? Well, we are learning. We are learning. Our
00:08:47 democracy is young. It's still a work in progress. Yeah, it's still a work in progress because if you
00:08:53 want to compare to the US, they started way, way, way, way back. We cannot even compare.
00:08:57 But I think that we've moved far too, even though we have the minuses, but the
00:09:02 positives too are there. We haven't done so badly as a parliament, especially the
00:09:08 Fourth Republic. There have been issues, there have been hitches, people, decisions taken by
00:09:14 the majority side. Especially, let me give you an example. When the MPP lost their bid
00:09:20 to elect the Speaker, or a member of their government to be the Speaker of
00:09:24 Parliament, their party wasn't happy. Their grassroots people
00:09:29 chastised them, they traded insults and all of that. In the same vein,
00:09:35 when our party issued a statement that the NDC should not approve certain
00:09:42 ministers, but you notice that some of those ministers, they were voted for.
00:09:46 So it is to tell you that we are also learning, and we are learning to be
00:09:52 independent from the party position, especially when we think that that is
00:09:58 the right way to go. But mostly, by and large, it is the party that leads the
00:10:04 discussion. And that collective decision, you as an individual
00:10:11 cannot vary it, you can't defy it. That would be betrayal to the party on whose
00:10:18 ticket you contest it. But in terms of your verdict on this eighth Parliament,
00:10:23 you may be a first-term parliamentarian or legislator, but some say that the
00:10:29 expectation was so much on the back of the numbers in Parliament, the
00:10:33 expectation was so much from this Parliament, but that you are failing as
00:10:37 legislators to execute the mandate of the people. You know, my brother, it is the...
00:10:41 And no meaner person than the first Deputy Speaker of Parliament.
00:10:46 Yes, I can... I can... You have failed. Yes, we cannot... I would disagree with him.
00:10:52 I disagree with him entirely because, you see, the party in which you contest
00:11:04 elections cannot get a position for you to follow and you defy it. Now, I'm also
00:11:13 disagreeing with him because, my brother, the quorum to do business is 92 and
00:11:19 half, we don't have half human beings, so 93 are good to do business. MPP has 137
00:11:26 members of Parliament, with an independent MP 138. So at every point in
00:11:31 time, if they are able to whip their people to be in the chamber, they can go
00:11:35 on with business, without the minority. Without the minority. The eighth
00:11:40 Parliament, because it's a hung Parliament, there have been many tactics
00:11:47 employed by the ruling government to eliminate some members of the NDC party.
00:11:52 And Joe Quesin is one example. Why? Joe Quesin is supposed to represent his
00:11:59 people. Why do you put him on daily trial, denying him of that representation? If you
00:12:07 think that the minority is escorting Joe Quesin to court,
00:12:13 we are stifling government business. And don't you think that by asking him
00:12:20 to be in court on a daily basis, you are equally denying the people of Assen of
00:12:24 good representation in Parliament? Well, you know he's a member of Parliament,
00:12:29 supposed to go to Parliament to do his parliamentary business, represent his
00:12:33 people. But you are putting him on daily basis, you are equally denying him. So the
00:12:37 government is to be blamed. I see it to be hypocritical on the part of
00:12:42 government, because you cannot deny a whole member of Parliament, the people
00:12:46 selected this man. They chose him the first time. Government used all sort of
00:12:51 tactics to get him out. He presented himself again, the party presented him
00:12:56 again, and he won again. Then you still think... Yeah, but the fact that the people
00:13:01 voted for him a second time does not take away whatever criminal
00:13:07 charges or criminal offenses he may have committed the first time in filing, in
00:13:11 putting through the process for his nomination. What did he do?
00:13:16 I'm sure it's common knowledge to everyone. And yes, the
00:13:21 linkages will be drawn between a certain... how come his name just escapes me?
00:13:29 Adamu Dramani Sakande. And then the distinctions will be drawn in
00:13:36 terms of this person, as of this point, even when the person became a member of
00:13:40 Parliament, still held citizenship of another jurisdiction, when this person to
00:13:45 the best of his knowledge, at this point, had started the process and had before
00:13:50 filing the nomination. So is this one that good faith? Which good faith?
00:13:55 Yeah, good faith. Kwesi's case,
00:14:01 anybody who wants to compare Kwesi's case to Adamu Sakande's case, will just be...
00:14:07 Even the President did it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's just because the
00:14:11 person or the President is being political. Look, I denounced my
00:14:16 renunciation as a citizen of Canada in order to represent my people. The
00:14:22 Canadian government replied... You're talking about not you, you are talking about James Jettison.
00:14:27 I'm talking about Kwesi. They received his renunciation, his
00:14:32 application, and they replied him. And he had a reply. And they are telling him that
00:14:38 it's because of COVID. That's why we delayed in issuing you your certificate.
00:14:42 But your certificate will be given to you soon. So one question was to file for
00:14:46 the 2020 elections. Somebody raised the issue with the EC, and the EC summoned him.
00:14:53 Kwesi went with the application he wrote, the response from the Canadian
00:14:59 government, then the EC asked, cleared him to contest. EC cleared him to contest. So
00:15:06 he didn't hide, he didn't pretend, he did not try to circumvent the system.
00:15:12 He blamed the Electoral Commission in this instance. The law is the law. As of the time he was filing, what processes should have been followed.
00:15:20 He did not actually try to circumvent the system. He respected the laws of the
00:15:25 country, and he followed due process in renouncing his Canadian citizenship.
00:15:31 So this whole bit about a day-to-day trial, and everything
00:15:35 happening in James Jettison's case. I mean, some people have cited Cecilia Dappa,
00:15:38 and it will get there. Just hold your horses, and everything that has happened.
00:15:42 And the AGN, how it deals with cases of a political nature from the other side,
00:15:48 vis-a-vis how it deals with other cases. How do you feel about that?
00:15:53 Well, well, well... Do you think he's being treated unfairly? Kwesi? Yes.
00:15:58 Yeah. Kwesi is not being treated fairly. I see. Yeah, he's not being... take the cameras around.
00:16:03 You get the public sentiment about Kwesi. And look, like I was explaining,
00:16:10 if he had attempted to evade the system like Ademu Sekunde did,
00:16:14 Sekunde even at the time he was a member of Parliament, he was a citizen to three
00:16:18 countries. He never made any attempt to renounce any of them. So you can't be
00:16:23 comparing the two, if not for political expediency. You cannot compare the two.
00:16:28 But our opponents, our colleagues on the other side, they are quick to compare
00:16:34 that somebody was ever punished because of that. But when the narrations are not
00:16:37 the same, the evidence, when you put it together, you realize that, yes, one
00:16:43 acted in good faith, the other one actually tried to evade the system and
00:16:48 was caught. Speaking of... So in this case, in this case, my brother, there is one of the
00:16:54 reasons why the Assyrian North actually voted for Kwesi Mwaza. He's no more a
00:16:58 citizen of Canada. So why deny him? Why are you saying he shouldn't be a member
00:17:04 of Parliament? So we vote for him. That's why they voted for him. So the cases, you
00:17:09 can try to do all the gymnastics around the two cases, but if you are a very good
00:17:15 independent-minded person, and if you were to put the two, to get the two cases
00:17:20 and you analyze them, you understand how one acted in good faith and the other
00:17:26 one tried actually to evade the laws of the country. Let's talk about on that
00:17:31 same trajectory that Domahini waded into the conversation, among others. Many
00:17:36 people spoke to the issues and he suggested, you know, issue a nulliprosequai
00:17:40 on this matter. Let it go. Yes. But the bit is, he's a high court judge and
00:17:45 some of, in fact now, the Judicial Council is taking him on in matters related to that instance.
00:17:53 This is how hypocritical this country is. I see. We are very
00:18:00 hypocritical. The Domahini is a chief. He didn't speak in the court. He spoke as a
00:18:07 traditional ruler, just like one other judge did from the Volta regime by
00:18:12 endorsing President Nkufu Addo's second term bit. What did we not hear in this
00:18:16 country? He spoke as a traditional ruler. He didn't speak as a judge. So how do you,
00:18:21 how do you come to blame Domahini who spoke as a traditional ruler, who
00:18:27 represented his people and said that, look, listening to the sentiment of my
00:18:32 people, I think that the AG should enter a nulliprosequai to stop the case.
00:18:37 He didn't say that in the courtroom. He didn't say that in the course of his
00:18:42 duty as a judge. He said it as a traditional ruler. Why do you arrange him
00:18:48 before the Judicial Council? That is unfair. The other one, what's his name?
00:18:53 What's the name? What's the name of the other judge? There was one that endorsed
00:18:57 President Nkufu Addo's second bit from the Volta regime. What's his name?
00:19:00 What's his name? Is it Hononuga? Yeah, yeah. You're talking of the one who was on
00:19:08 the the Lithovic case as well, the Opuni case? Yes, yes. You know, I think when he
00:19:15 spoke at that time and people tried to raise issues about the fact that this is
00:19:20 a judge, there were people who came out to defend him, that he was a traditional
00:19:25 ruler and the occasion in which he spoke, he was speaking as a traditional ruler.
00:19:30 How different is that one from the Domahinis case? But we also say that two
00:19:36 wrongs do not make a right. If we want to depoliticize, decouple our politics
00:19:44 from traditional rule, if you like, which is what the Constitution suggests that we
00:19:50 do, don't you think we should be shying away from this and not trying to
00:19:53 equalize? It's not politics. The man wasn't speaking politics. He didn't say
00:19:58 that I'm NDC because of that enter Enoli Prosukai. He didn't speak like my
00:20:05 good friend and brother Samy Jelfi, who is the NDC national communication
00:20:11 officer who speaks on behalf of the party. That was not what the Domahini did.
00:20:15 He said that, look, look, hearing or listening to the sentiment of my people,
00:20:21 I think that, look, let me tell you, if the MPP is wise enough, if they enter
00:20:28 Enoli Prosukai to stop Kwesi's case, I tell you that if they had done that
00:20:33 immediately, Ghanaians would have seen that, look, the president is
00:20:38 reconcilatory. The president is a listening president. The president
00:20:42 actually, you know, listened to the sentiments of Ghanaians and that would
00:20:47 have given Nanado and his government some level of credibility and the
00:20:53 judiciary itself would have been safe of that perceived political witch-hunting.
00:20:58 The judiciary itself would have been safe of that perceived political witch-hunting and
00:21:03 that would have even helped the MPP government going forward. But you see, if
00:21:08 they want to be on Jyachi Kwesi, I tell you that, look, Kwesi alone,
00:21:14 this case alone can let the MPP, by now I'm telling you that the MPP has even
00:21:20 lost over 20% of votes going into the 2024 elections. By what survey? By public opinion.
00:21:29 Has lost 20% of votes? Yes, they've lost already. They've lost already. Because I am telling you that...
00:21:35 That literally means or virtually means the NDC has about 60% of votes in the
00:21:40 kitty. Yes, very sure. I see. If elections are held today, I tell you Kwesi's case and
00:21:46 the others alone, alone, the Ghanaians will punish the MPP for that. If elections were to be held today.
00:21:53 Even apart from the woes of the economy and everything else? Yes. You know, so I'm saying that if they
00:21:58 are listening, if they listen to the likes of the Doma Hene, look, they are only trying to
00:22:04 vilify the man for nothing. But if they are wise enough to listen to the Doma Hene, it will
00:22:11 serve them good, not bad. Let's stay in Parliament and maybe not necessarily
00:22:18 Parliament, but a former lawmaker for Bantama constituency. I'm sure you know
00:22:24 whom I'm speaking of. Cecilia Abinadapa. Now we hear that, so the police have
00:22:32 submitted a docket to the AG, the Office of the Special Prosecutor has waded into
00:22:37 the matter. She was arrested by the special prosecutor. Bail process is going
00:22:42 through and all of that. I have spotted a memo from the Ministry of Information,
00:22:47 you know, in terms of how they're going to be speaking on some of these matters.
00:22:53 The report of suspected unexplained wealth, the reaction to her resignation, among
00:22:59 others. But let me start off the conversation by conducting a little roll
00:23:03 call. The $1 million club, show your hands. My hands are not representative of, but $1
00:23:10 million club, you might want to show your hands. Do you have a million dollars?
00:23:14 Maybe somewhere at home? Nowadays when MPs and ministers come here, I'll conduct
00:23:19 that roll call. Do you have a million dollars sitting somewhere at home? You might as well want to say it now, so that if we find it, you will not be in any hot soup.
00:23:27 I don't have a thousand CDs in the house. You don't have a thousand? A thousand Ghana CDs.
00:23:31 Hey! Eja? I am telling you, I don't have a thousand. You say you don't even have a thousand CDs at home.
00:23:36 A CD, a thousand CDs. So you keep it at the bank? I don't, I'm not sure I even have it at the bank.
00:23:41 Hey! I am telling you. You don't have even a thousand CDs at the bank? I don't have it.
00:23:46 Masa, this one. Oh, my brother, why? You don't know the times in which we are in now. We are in tough times.
00:23:51 But what is even your salary as a member of parliament?
00:23:58 Salary, look, let me be very honest with you. Most MPs are not very happy about their salary situation.
00:24:06 Most MPs are not happy about their salary situation?
00:24:09 The leadership of parliament is aware of this. Both sides and every other MP, whether majority, minority, they are not very happy about their salary situation.
00:24:20 You know, the MP salary is for everybody. The MP salary is not just for the MP.
00:24:28 However money the MP is paid, it's still for everybody.
00:24:36 But when you say it's for everybody, you are talking about the pressures on a legislator.
00:24:41 I am telling you. Yeah, but the fact too is, I mean, you as members of parliament, you have also fed into that narrative.
00:24:48 You have created a narrative. So people who ordinarily should be going to the proper agents of development, the DCE and the MCE, end up coming to you.
00:24:55 That is true. But that doesn't take away the fact that you earn what you do.
00:25:00 So let's break it down. Averagely, as a member of parliament, you are not earning anything less than 8000. You are earning more than that.
00:25:07 Yeah, let's say 10,000. Yeah, you are earning far more than that.
00:25:12 How many people in this country can boast of earning 10,000?
00:25:15 That's what I'm saying. Some people don't even get it because of the deductions on their loans and all of that.
00:25:23 Right. But we are talking about the basic. Yeah, the basic.
00:25:26 OK, it doesn't matter. As for the others. So now let me tell you something.
00:25:29 Like I have, it's your Mahala. You pay me, government pays me 10,000 a month. Right.
00:25:35 I'm from the Jirapa constituency. If I have to fuel my car to the constituency, in and out, you are talking about 5,000 or more.
00:25:43 5,000 gallons. Yes. In and out. That is even if I could use public transport.
00:25:50 Well, it's an option. It is the agency of the situation.
00:25:54 As I'm here, I can be called. I can be called to attend to a situation in the constituency.
00:25:59 I cannot. The buses move in the evening to Jirapa.
00:26:03 If I'm to wait in the evening to go and board the bus to go, then it means I'm not going to solve the problem.
00:26:09 So that is how bad the situation is. I pay my driver. I buy my fuel. I service my car.
00:26:18 So that is how. So how then do you make it?
00:26:21 Are you saying if I were to shake you right now and shake your mobile money account right now, wouldn't find even a thousand CDs in there?
00:26:27 I'm not too sure you will get. I'm being very honest.
00:26:30 So bank accounts, mobile money. I'm being honest with you.
00:26:33 You are saying that you will not even. If you are in that state, then the rest of us, what should we do?
00:26:38 That is why I'm telling you the magnitude of this hardship in this country.
00:26:43 If you want to go to parliament, let them interview the MPs.
00:26:48 Let them interview the MPs and they will tell you. Are you speaking for minority MPs or both?
00:26:54 Both. Sometimes my minority MP, you are even better because people will even sympathize with you.
00:27:00 Your party is not in government. They know their party is in government.
00:27:04 Why? Few of them are the ones enjoying. They are our friends. We talk, we interact. We know how they feel.
00:27:11 Mostly you see some don't even virtually have money to fuel their cars to work.
00:27:16 Oh, my brother, if you are going past by my house and pick me or let me get something to buy fuel so that I can come to parliament the next day.
00:27:25 That is how bad the situation is.
00:27:26 You have majority MPs sometimes reaching to you for that.
00:27:29 They reach to their friends. They are reaching to their friends.
00:27:34 Tell me what would be what would be an adequate?
00:27:39 What do you feel would be adequate by way of salary in these times?
00:27:42 Well, I think that the member of parliament, probably government should look at how to absorb, you know, salaries of their drivers, service their cars for them.
00:27:55 If they absorb those allowances, those things even it will help.
00:27:59 So basically, if you know how much you pay your driver, what they do to ministers, right?
00:28:04 You know how much you pay your driver. Yeah. You know how much you spend on the vehicle maintenance and all of that and all those other related or concomitant costs.
00:28:13 If you put that together, would you say, let's say, 14000, 15000, 20000 would be adequate?
00:28:20 I want to I want us to bring it down to the bare bones.
00:28:22 Well, well, I don't want to sit here and assume that MPs should be paid this amount of money.
00:28:28 But I think that the discussion about MP salaries should be something that governments should look at.
00:28:36 Leadership of parliament should look at it and take, you know, collective decision as to what they can.
00:28:42 They know, they know, they know what they can do to pushing MPs to be to be relevant in terms of their functions.
00:28:51 If they if they really want MPs to work very well, you know, that's why you see most of us being sick.
00:28:59 One time I went to visit one MP and I saw him taking BP medicine.
00:29:03 I'm like, ah, my leader, you have BP.
00:29:06 He said, ah, Keletu is paaah. Can you do this job without BP?
00:29:09 And I'm like, wow. So it means that the next few years, Keletu is going to develop BP.
00:29:15 That's what it means. It's a pressure. It's a pressure that demands.
00:29:20 My brother, most of the times, what weighs us down is not the community development.
00:29:27 It's not the mass development. It is the individual development, the individual demands that weighs us down.
00:29:35 That weighs us down because, look, those who started, those who came to parliament in '93, '96, 2000, 2004, even 2008,
00:29:45 they still, they've gotten rosy a bit, you know.
00:29:48 Now there is social media. What is that? What is that? Radio stations are all over.
00:29:57 Mobile money is there and all of that. So you sit down, you open your phone.
00:30:02 What you get is that the request comes with the mode of how you send the money.
00:30:08 It makes the request straight away. This is my mobile number.
00:30:11 And you are obliged to send the money, whether you have it or not.
00:30:16 So how do you deal with that? With your limited resources? Are you a businessman?
00:30:21 That's why I'm telling you that. That's why I'm telling you that.
00:30:24 Once such a request comes, you fall on your, probably your 10,000 salary. It's gone.
00:30:30 You have your common fund. What do you do with it?
00:30:32 That's what I'm saying. Some of the issues that, somebody is in the hospital.
00:30:37 Somebody is in the hospital that he can't foot his bills.
00:30:40 He reached out to the MP. I'm being hostage in the hospital. They've discharged me. I cannot pay.
00:30:47 When will you go to raise a memo to the assembly for them to approve so that the person can be discharged?
00:30:54 But you must justify the expenditure.
00:30:56 Yeah, you have to justify it. Even the common fund itself, it doesn't come.
00:31:00 It's not more common these days. Government is not able to release common fund like before.
00:31:05 When was the last time you got your common fund payment?
00:31:07 Oh, the last quarter, 2022, last quarter, was just paid last month.
00:31:18 So it means for this entire year, you've not received?
00:31:21 No, they've not paid projects. They've not paid common fund for projects.
00:31:25 So on the back of all these things you're telling me,
00:31:29 did you find it shocking that in a former minister's house,
00:31:33 Cecilia Abnadape's house, one million could go missing without, so to speak,
00:31:38 they're realizing it, until about one million dollars, 300,000 euros,
00:31:43 and a lot of kente, jewelry, worth about $95,000, suits and all of that gone missing.
00:31:50 And let's be very factual about this situation.
00:31:55 Let me tell you something. One big problem of this country is our ability to fight corruption.
00:32:03 Corruption is a canker that has made it impossible for us to get the needed development that we should have.
00:32:15 And I am so disappointed with how corruption and corruption-related issues
00:32:23 are being dealt with under this administration.
00:32:26 Look, let me also caution that many, many of our so-called affluent people
00:32:37 or people who are doing very well in society, when they engage these housemates,
00:32:44 look, I'm surprised that somebody, you and your husband's bedroom,
00:32:51 you allow a stranger to go in there to clean.
00:32:55 The bedroom is the only secret place in the entire big house, the master bedroom.
00:33:00 So even as a wife of a president, as a wife of the vice president, as a wife of a minister,
00:33:06 a minister who is married, I think that at least just a Saturday you spend,
00:33:12 or a Sunday you spend just 30 minutes, one hour to clean your bedroom,
00:33:18 it's not a bad idea. It's even exercise. You have to exercise too.
00:33:22 Look, if the housemates, if they were not entering the room and cleaning,
00:33:27 they wouldn't know that this is where the woman keeps money,
00:33:30 where they would then go and devise ways and means of stealing their money.
00:33:34 So as much as we think that money is stolen, the question many people are asking is that,
00:33:41 where did she get this money from? And why is the money not in the bank?
00:33:46 To the extent that the woman can keep so much money in the house that,
00:33:52 if you read the story and follow the story very well,
00:33:55 this money was being taken within a period of four months without them knowing.
00:34:00 That means there's a lot, there's a lot of money lying somewhere in their bedroom
00:34:06 that this housemate devised ways and means of picking this money up to the tune that they picked
00:34:13 without them knowing until when the husband was returning to pick something in the house
00:34:18 and caught one of them in the room. That is when they suspected that they needed to check.
00:34:23 They then started checking to see what went wrong and all of that.
00:34:28 Then they got to realise that look, ABCD amount of money wasn't there.
00:34:32 Look, it is a disgrace to politicians.
00:34:36 Madame Cecilia Dapa has lost her integrity. Understand she works for...
00:34:41 Wait, she's lost her integrity?
00:34:43 Yeah, she lost it.
00:34:44 How? The president in accepting her resignation...
00:34:48 I am telling you that she should have been fired.
00:34:50 ...mentions that, in fact he mentions how sad he was and then he makes mention of the fact that...
00:34:55 Yes, I'm going to deal with that.
00:34:56 ...her integrity will be established.
00:34:57 That is when many people think that the president's ability to fight corruption is questionable.
00:35:03 You cannot, the woman should have been fired.
00:35:07 You should have asked the woman to step aside immediately.
00:35:11 You don't give him the laxity to resign.
00:35:15 Even in the woman's resignation letter, look at the communication.
00:35:19 It wasn't formal.
00:35:21 My dear Mr. President, blah blah blah blah blah blah.
00:35:25 And the president's acceptance letter, I believe your integrity will be established.
00:35:32 The woman doesn't have any integrity.
00:35:34 There's no integrity, you cannot, I am saying that.
00:35:37 But wait, Cletus, Cletus.
00:35:38 Yes.
00:35:39 Put yourself in her shoes.
00:35:40 Yes.
00:35:41 Let's hasten slowly.
00:35:42 Put yourself in her shoes.
00:35:43 Yeah.
00:35:44 Some members of the MPP have said, and legitimately so,
00:35:48 land in East Lagon, Adregano, Jowulu, certain parts of the country, can easily sell for those sums of money.
00:35:56 There has been talk about funeral donations and all of that.
00:35:59 You are also not suggesting, especially with her husband as an architect, my father was an architect engineer,
00:36:05 though that is a long time ago, he passed.
00:36:07 You are not suggesting that after all these years of labor, maybe they cannot come up with that sum of money,
00:36:13 or that because of this, even without the processes having been seen through, you are declaring her guilty.
00:36:21 I am saying that.
00:36:23 Because.
00:36:24 As a political exposed person, as a political exposed person,
00:36:28 you cannot keep such amount of money in your bedroom.
00:36:32 In your bedroom.
00:36:34 I wanted Madame Dappa by now to have probably granted interview to tell us that this is the source of the money.
00:36:40 And I have been patiently waiting for that too.
00:36:44 Yes.
00:36:45 She is not saying anything.
00:36:46 And she cannot, I am telling you, my brother, this woman cannot account for this money.
00:36:50 This money cannot be accounted for.
00:36:53 If there were genuine money being worked for, I am telling you, they would be sitting in the bank.
00:36:58 It is because they are unexplained wealth.
00:37:01 Unaquired wealth.
00:37:03 So you are basically saying that she.
00:37:05 Let me tell you, anybody, anybody who works, I am coming, anybody who genuinely works for money in this country,
00:37:11 those monies are sitting in the bank.
00:37:13 Nobody will work for money, genuinely, and go keep them in his bedroom.
00:37:18 Nobody will do that. You can keep money that probably you can use for your day to day running of the house and other stuff.
00:37:27 But to keep that chunk of money in her bedroom is filthy money.
00:37:33 It's unexplained money. It's money she acquired dubiously.
00:37:36 That's why you're saying that any politician, NBC or NPP who has a lump sum of money sitting at home now.
00:37:43 Now, my. Hold on. Hold on.
00:37:46 Some of you run campaigns, especially on the back of the primaries and all of that that happened.
00:37:51 Some of you would have kept some money within reach at home because you know that there are limits to even how much you can withdraw,
00:38:01 even in dollar denominations or foreign currency and all of that.
00:38:04 And some of you with the things you do, if you need money quickly and the bank is now telling you it will take you X number of days to withdraw the sum of money.
00:38:12 I mean, isn't it only practical?
00:38:14 I'm just saying maybe not to the tune of what she was keeping at home, but some of you members of parliament ministers, you'll keep some lump sums at home.
00:38:21 Right. Well, well, I if you are if you are being caught, just like my daughter, Cecilia, you will be called out.
00:38:29 You have to explain to us how you get that money from. I am not saying that is the only one.
00:38:36 She is even the ministry she's handling is just sanitation ministry. If you were to go around to other ministers houses and to see what amounts of money they are keeping there, you cry.
00:38:47 Maybe Ghana wouldn't even have gone to the IMF. The ministers alone could probably if they are together, their money is together.
00:38:55 Money is they've acquired money. They've got since they became ministers, chief executives and all of that board chairman.
00:39:01 If they were to put those monies together, Ghana wouldn't need Ghana wouldn't go to IMF.
00:39:05 I've heard the story of someone, you know, we say we have this term, we seek an asshit, someone who literally a minister in this country.
00:39:16 And of course, I cannot spill. But if anybody dares to, then we'll have to say things.
00:39:23 Is it gushing in foreign currency like for real? But what I've also heard of someone from a very reliable source who.
00:39:34 Who had his V8 stolen V8, I'm talking of the kinds of vehicles, he's very expensive ones over two hundred thousand dollars thereabouts, depending on what specifications you have within a week.
00:39:47 This person purchased another one. Ask yourself. So it's a bit surprising when you tell me you don't even have a thousand CDs in close proximity.
00:39:58 But let's get back to Cecilia Dapa. If such unexplained wealth can be found in political circles, whether with the minority or the majority, you're both politically exposed people.
00:40:12 You're all politicians. What signal then does that send? Some have said that unwittingly Cecilia Abnada power.
00:40:21 Has told ordinary Ghanaians when we spoke to the tax people and economists that, you know what, there's something.
00:40:28 So don't take your money to the banks or don't take your money here and there, because maybe there's something you don't know.
00:40:33 That is why we are keeping our money at home, which in effect also will affect the financial system, which already is bleeding.
00:40:42 It also poorly reflects on politicians. How much damage, just how much damage does this do to the financial system?
00:40:50 And to you as politicians, because now some of you may even be targets.
00:40:54 Some of you, your gardeners and staff will now be looking at you. Charlie, what do you have in your reach?
00:40:58 Let me tell you something. You know, not generally politicians are perceived to be corrupt people.
00:41:05 Politicians, when we are walking, when we dress nicely, we sit in our lounges, but many Ghanaians see us to be very corrupt.
00:41:14 What all do you hear is, oh, you are the ones chopping Ghanaians money. You know, that is a perception, whether real or not.
00:41:21 That is what is out there. So when issues like this is in the public domain, no politician is fed, particularly the government of the day that is supposed to fight corruption.
00:41:33 The political will to fight corruption is a problem of Ghana, particularly within the current administration.
00:41:40 They have not shown the resilience in fighting corruption. Look, you heard of what's in a Vicky Hammer who just had a wishful thinking of a million dollars.
00:41:50 And rightly so. She was sacked. Rightly so. So that's why I'm saying that this woman who had even who even got the space or the time to even write a resignation letter.
00:42:01 The president should have fired her and called for arrest immediately. But this issue dragged from last week, Thursday to Friday, up to the Saturday, Sunday.
00:42:12 Then Monday, we then had special prosecutor coming in to do what to do what? What will they do?
00:42:18 Do you feel do you feel the president, by what he said, has already compromised the case?
00:42:24 That is very true. That is very true. The president did. He's not going to sit on the matter.
00:42:29 No, he's not. He's not a judge. He is not the special prosecutor. He is the one.
00:42:34 If you check, the president is being talked as a clearing agent in most of the corrupt or corruption related issues that has come to his notice.
00:42:43 And this is not the first time. Many of the issues before the committee will even start work, the president will clear the person.
00:42:50 That's why people have nicknamed him. They've nicknamed him as clearing agent, you know, and what he just did again shows that he's already compromised whatever investigations that the OSP is going to do.
00:43:07 And I even think that nothing will come out of it. At the end of the day, all money is being retrieved from this woman will be given to her.
00:43:14 And this case will die a natural death. And that is the man, President Akufo-Addo, ruling.
00:43:21 It's nothing will come out of it, my brother. Nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing.
00:43:26 It's just that the worry of many MPP members are that the woman didn't do well because she has brought disgrace to their government.
00:43:37 The entire government machinery is suffering it. Even if you look at the woman's resignation letter, she herself said that she's resigning not because she's guilty,
00:43:48 but she's resigning because she doesn't want what has happened to have a toll on government, especially going into the 2024 elections.
00:43:58 That is what the woman says. A woman that should have been fired. It was President Mahama, but now she's gone.
00:44:04 You would have been sacked and investigations would have commenced immediately.
00:44:09 What does this say about...
00:44:10 I'm even told, I listened to TV3 and they said that even when the OSP still went to the house, they still found money there that they took hours to count the money.
00:44:22 Well, that we cannot confirm. It wasn't on this platform.
00:44:26 That's why I'm mentioning the platform that I heard it.
00:44:29 Right. What does this say then about our asset declaration regime?
00:44:35 It's bogus.
00:44:36 Hold on, hold on. Our asset declaration regime, because obviously we need to know what she declared as her assets and notes the discrepancies between what she said she had and what she now has and all the other exigencies in between.
00:44:55 And what does it also show about the honesty of politicians, those in power, like you rightly said?
00:45:04 And they have been suggestions. I will not mention names that if you were to go into the houses and rooms, look, you know, someone who, let's say, what's more your school, you graduated from school almost together.
00:45:19 The person had virtually not done any work, went into politics, became a member of parliament or something.
00:45:25 All of a sudden, I mean, you are doing a well-paid paying job, sort of maybe earning some five, six, seven thousand.
00:45:32 Yet this person has put up two buildings, three buildings. The person owns real estate.
00:45:37 The person has had owns a radio station, a TV station.
00:45:45 The person is driving in all sorts of cars and you ask yourself, wait, on your salary, you say you don't even have a thousand CDs.
00:45:53 I still find that a bit suspicious. But how do you guys do it? Is there a magic wand you wave?
00:45:59 Is that something we do not know that the ordinary Ghanaian or is it that all of you are simply corrupt?
00:46:08 All of you. The truth is that corruption itself is in the DNA of almost every Ghanaian.
00:46:18 Ghanaians, practically every human being. But yes, yes.
00:46:22 Like we say, opportunity makes the thief. But the other bit, too, is there are people with a conscience and some of them will not enter into politics because it's been tainted.
00:46:30 And how many? How many are those people? Look, I was a district chief executive for the Jirapa constituency.
00:46:37 When we left office in 2017, I was riding a motorbike. I didn't have a house to myself. I was being lambasted and insulted.
00:46:46 Don't mind him, he's a foolish boy. He went in there to just work and work. Now he doesn't have anything. He's not riding motorbike.
00:46:54 Yeah, that is part of the vicious cycle.
00:46:56 So that is how society will come at us, the politicians, when you are not able to do A, B, C, D.
00:47:04 And when you do it, too, then the same society will cry foul. So that is the hypocritical nature of our society.
00:47:11 We look, the fact that you are a minister, that doesn't mean that you should be rich overnight. No.
00:47:17 No, it doesn't mean that you should be rich overnight. The fact that you are a district chief executive or government appointee, that doesn't mean that you should be rich overnight.
00:47:24 But that is what society itself wants to see. That's what society itself wants to see.
00:47:29 So society is part of the problem. But in all this sense, the presidency or the president or the government of the day should have the ability to fight corruption.
00:47:39 Should have the ability to put your own appointees under investigation and subsequently prosecution.
00:47:45 Let us not do it with politics. It shouldn't be selective. That selective justice is what I don't like, is what I frown against.
00:47:53 If you are a president, let me tell you, let me tell you, one of the MPP campaigned on the doorsteps of corruption in the 2015-2016 election and the economy.
00:48:04 They used the Anas principle and all of that.
00:48:06 They used the Anas principle, the Wyoming case. You remember, today when you hear of corruption-related cases and monies that are involved, monies that are involved,
00:48:16 Wyoming money is just a peanut, isn't it?
00:48:18 I mean, what is wrong is wrong.
00:48:20 Yeah, what is wrong is wrong, but I'm just saying that when you hear of corruption-related cases under this administration, the amount of money, the quantum of monies that are involved,
00:48:29 if you were to think of the Wyoming money, you would say Wyoming money is just a peanut.
00:48:33 Are you suggesting, just clarify this for me, throughout this fourth republic, the Rawlings administration was branded with corruption, painted with a brush of corruption, at a point.
00:48:43 Kufuor, same. In fact, he said at a point that corruption had been with us since the days of Adam.
00:48:50 Then we had Atamils. Even the saintly Atamils was painted with a brush of corruption.
00:48:57 His administration, Mahama K, same. And now Ekufuadu, same.
00:49:01 Where do you think, if there were a ranking, a league log of corrupt administrations, where would this Nanadu Dankwe Kufuadu administration rank?
00:49:11 Let me, let me, let me, let me. I don't want to be biased, but I just wish that you can have independent persons to analyze all the regimes, in terms of how they fought corruption.
00:49:28 And I tell you that you come to vindicate President Mahama.
00:49:31 Nanadu is one person, one of the reasons why many people voted for Nanadu was people held him in high esteem and believed that he is somebody that could stand and fight corruption.
00:49:43 People, if Nanadu didn't get the opportunity to rule Ghana, even in his death, people would have still been talking good about him.
00:49:51 The fact that he was a good person who could help this country and never had the opportunity.
00:49:56 But all that is drill, all that is drill, because he had the opportunity, he's not been able to do it the way people are, people expected him to do it.
00:50:05 You know, look, one, one bar ten, any president will not be able to fight corruption if you make some relatives around you, if you appoint them into your government.
00:50:19 You will not be able to fight corruption. That is one weakness of this system.
00:50:23 The relatives are too many in the government.
00:50:27 Nepotism, cronyism.
00:50:29 Nepotism, cronyism is the basis for corruption because my cousin, my cousin is the one involved in this deal.
00:50:37 Why let the law take him on and what do I tell the family?
00:50:42 The family will come at me. You've made them imprison your own brother.
00:50:46 So if the person wasn't your brother, the person wasn't your cousin, the person wasn't your wife's relative, you could deal with it.
00:50:54 So it's one of the problems of this administration. And I'm not surprised all these things are happening.
00:50:59 It will happen because when you put in so many known and friends and relatives into your government, it will be difficult for you to crack their whip.
00:51:07 I guess that feeds into the rhetoric of economist Dr. Samankar who says anti-corruption measures are not yielding any results.
00:51:16 Let me add that. And one person who was against the creation of the OSP office, I said it was coming to, there is a duplication of function.
00:51:25 It won't do nothing. It will not do anything.
00:51:28 Look, one anti-corruption agency can be empowered to deal with corruption and corruption related issues in this country.
00:51:38 Which is?
00:51:39 Which is, you know, even the CID, the IOKO, they are all there, the CHRAJ.
00:51:45 CHRAJ is the creation of the Constitution. CHRAJ alone can deal with corruption in this country.
00:51:49 But will we allow them to do their work independently?
00:51:53 No, because that's why I have a problem with the Constitution, how the Constitution was cut.
00:52:00 I think that it's about time we review the 1992 Constitution.
00:52:05 We need to amend some of the provisions. We need to amend them.
00:52:10 We have to amend some provisions in the 1992 Constitution of Ghana.
00:52:14 Look, otherwise we cannot even fight this corruption.
00:52:18 All right, quickly, I want us to move away from Sicily Adapai and address other issues before we cap off the conversation.
00:52:23 But on Sicily Adapai, just to wrap very briefly, you have expressed your pessimism about anything proper happening.
00:52:32 That in terms of a refund of any funds, of course, there would even have to be a process to establish how she secured those funds.
00:52:39 And then if she secured them through any improper ways, it is innocent until proven guilty in our jurisdiction.
00:52:45 Then the legal processes will follow. What more do you want to see?
00:52:49 She's been arrested, so to speak, by the OSB, given bail.
00:52:53 There are others that have waded into this conversation.
00:52:56 What would your expectations be of the attorney general, for example, from the OSB?
00:53:01 I mean, what do you think, properly speaking, should happen?
00:53:04 Let me, let me. I don't expect anything to happen. I don't expect anything to happen. Nothing will happen.
00:53:11 But I'm saying, properly speaking.
00:53:13 I'm just telling you nothing will happen.
00:53:16 This thing is going, they are going to massage it from the OSB attorney general levels, from the presidency.
00:53:24 Three cabals and you'll be free.
00:53:26 OSB, attorney general, presidency. You say three cabals.
00:53:30 And this case.
00:53:31 OK, so let me put it differently.
00:53:33 Should, should the NDC come to power?
00:53:36 You've also been brushed with a paintbrush of corruption.
00:53:39 Should your party come to power, how would you address issues like this one?
00:53:44 And even retrospectively, the law isn't retrospective in certain cases, but of course, some cases, once they happen, you could always have the legal dynamic.
00:53:52 How would you address such issues? Assuming your party comes to power, how would you address it?
00:53:56 Well, well, let me let me just say that I have given you an example of what President Mahama did when somebody was just even daydreaming of making a million dollars.
00:54:06 He said, look, this lady can be tempted to be corrupt in the ministry.
00:54:10 Let's get her out. Let's get her out.
00:54:12 And she was was made. She was sacked.
00:54:16 You understand. So I'm saying that we have the record in fighting corruption and we will fight corruption.
00:54:21 Remember the Jida issue when it came out?
00:54:23 It was the same president Mahama who commenced investigation into the Abu Ghapele issue where he was finally convicted.
00:54:30 This is how you demonstrate.
00:54:32 Your fight against corruption as a leader, that political will, the commitment don't come and be like, let me prosecute NDC members and when NDC is in power, let me prosecute MPP members.
00:54:46 If we are doing it that way, we will never get it right.
00:54:49 We'll never get it right. So I'm saying that I don't even want to answer your question.
00:54:53 But what I just want to say is that as a president, as a leader, you should have the ability to fight corruption.
00:54:59 If you cannot do it, you have no business ruling. You have no business serving the country.
00:55:04 You cannot rule if you are so weak in fighting corruption.
00:55:07 Because that is the problem in Africa. Corruption all over the world.
00:55:12 It is one thing that any president will fight for them to know that you have the capacity to rule.
00:55:20 What legacy then do you feel Ndana Odudankwe Kufwade will leave behind on the terrain of corruption?
00:55:27 If you had to score him over 10, what score would you give him in the fight against corruption?
00:55:32 Three over ten. Three over ten.
00:55:35 Even many MPP's told us and testified that Ndana Odudankwe has failed in his fight against corruption.
00:55:42 Starting from the Galency issues, starting from so many things. I don't want to mention so many of them.
00:55:48 Let's get to a related matter. You've spoken about the need to review certain aspects of the 1992 constitution.
00:55:55 A former executive vice president of Unilever, Yaw Nsakka, was speaking yesterday.
00:56:02 He delivered a paper at the British Council titled Towards a Mindset Revolution, Ghana Beyond Neoliberal Capitalism.
00:56:11 And some of the things he says, he labeled the fourth Republican experiment, if you like, and its democracy as a miracle that led to nowhere.
00:56:21 He also says the political landscape is a merry-go-round of miracles.
00:56:27 Basically, it's like that charlatanism that we see on the streets.
00:56:33 You could get easily ripped off in simple terms. Our democracy is a democracy.
00:56:39 It doesn't make any sense. And it has ripped us off expectations.
00:56:44 We have we have fallen to confidence tricksters, so to speak, throughout the fourth Republic.
00:56:50 Is this is this something you agree with?
00:56:54 Well, I agree. I agree with him to a level to some extent.
00:57:00 Because if you look at if you were to evaluate the fourth Republic very well, I think we've chalked some successes.
00:57:10 But by and large, we failed the country. We've not been able to do well.
00:57:14 And I totally agree with him. Totally agree with him. And I've said that the Constitution is the bane of our problem now.
00:57:24 Because if you look at. We now have to look at the way we behave, our attitude and carve a constitution that can that will kept all this corruption and corruption related or one's ability to indulge in corruption.
00:57:41 The Constitution should be able to deal with that. And let me give you an example.
00:57:45 The composition of the police council, if you look at it, is political. It's political.
00:57:52 The Constitution should not allow the president to appoint an IGP.
00:57:56 I think that. To become an IGP or any any commander or any big person in the security agencies,
00:58:08 you should get it on merit, climb through the ladder and get there.
00:58:12 But it shouldn't be that I have to do somebody's bidding in order to be appointed IGP.
00:58:17 That is why even in the security agencies, there's so much politics going on there.
00:58:23 Go to the ministries, the local government service, the civil service, the public service,
00:58:28 where these people should come and work independently to propel government development, government progress.
00:58:35 All of them are tempted to be political affiliated.
00:58:39 If you are not affiliated politically, you cannot survive it. You cannot survive. That is how polarized the system is.
00:58:46 So if we don't review the Constitution so that the chief director, the chief director, the chief director at a particular ministry cannot be removed by the minister.
00:58:56 A minister is coming to take over a ministry. He says that I don't want to work with this chief director.
00:59:03 I'm bringing my chief director. I want this person to be the internal auditor.
00:59:08 I want this person to be the accountant. Is it not corruption?
00:59:11 So that the grounds can be fertile for him to do what he wants to do.
00:59:15 That is the kind of system we are operating.
00:59:18 That's why I think that we need to go back to the drawing board, review the Constitution,
00:59:23 looking at the nature, the way we behave, our thinking as Ghanaians.
00:59:28 We need to carve a Constitution that will curtail all this nonsense in the system.
00:59:33 That is the reason why I think that the police council, if let's take recently the leak tape that is ongoing.
00:59:41 Why would an individual want the IGP to be out? Because he thinks the IGP is pro-NDC. Why?
00:59:48 They didn't say he was pro-NDC, but that he was not malleable to manipulation, which would allow for the rigging of an election.
00:59:55 That is it. That is how that COP Mensah is looking at it.
01:00:00 So he thinks that the IGP should be ousted.
01:00:04 But let's leave names out. So that COP.
01:00:07 No, we shouldn't. It's a leak tape. I'm sure you can hear this.
01:00:11 Let's just leave it at a COP.
01:00:13 That COP or that Alex Mensah, I'll mention the name because that's what happened.
01:00:17 I would encourage you to just mention it.
01:00:19 So what I'm trying to say is that if you go to look at the composition of the police council, look at who appoints what,
01:00:27 even promotions within the service is being done by the presidency.
01:00:31 So somebody thinks that the vice president in charge of that council.
01:00:37 All of this will make these institutions political.
01:00:40 I feel part of why we are where we are is because we have an executive that is overweening, overbearing, too powerful.
01:00:46 Too powerful.
01:00:47 Everything, everything is political.
01:00:49 And that is problematic.
01:00:50 Even the so-called independent state institutions.
01:00:52 I am telling you that they are being helplessly manipulated by the government of the day.
01:00:57 And all is because of how the constitution is.
01:01:01 We have to wrap up. Let me get into some other issues.
01:01:06 But I have a message for you.
01:01:09 The person wants me to mention the name. I will not.
01:01:12 But it says, "Good morning, sir. Please tell Honourable that I need his help.
01:01:15 I'm a driver and I want him to help me with a smartphone so that I can get into a boat driving job.
01:01:22 My name is..." I will not mention.
01:01:24 If you mention my name, he will know where I come from.
01:01:26 And he even adds his number, just like you said, with some of the requests that come through.
01:01:32 Interesting.
01:01:33 I don't know how you guys do it, but you must be magicians.
01:01:37 To wrap up the conversation, I want us to just take a quick look at these issues.
01:01:42 Two of them from Parliament.
01:01:44 The mid-year budgetary review, which has been delayed, and the surrounding issues.
01:01:50 And then the repeal of the death penalty.
01:01:53 I don't know where you stood on that conversation, but it has been scrapped.
01:01:57 A life imprisonment will do.
01:01:59 And if you may, if you can just manage this in two minutes, I'd be grateful.
01:02:03 The Adesado beating incident.
01:02:06 I think that the mid-year budget review is... Many Ghanaians are expecting the finance minister to come and read the mid-year review.
01:02:21 I understand it's coming on Monday.
01:02:23 Monday that the minister of finance is coming to read the mid-year budget review for us.
01:02:28 But my brother, what is going to come out of it? Nothing.
01:02:31 Nothing because exchange rate is still a problem.
01:02:37 Inflation is a problem.
01:02:39 You know, debt to GDP is worsening every day.
01:02:43 Fuel prices is worsening every day.
01:02:46 And these are the situation in which we are.
01:02:50 These indicators are not too good for the NPP.
01:02:53 Because the present Mahama record on all these sectors, inflation, exchange rate, debt to GDP, fuel prices and all of that is far better than what we are experiencing now.
01:03:07 That is why now if you look at the NPP presidential campaign, almost all of them are running away from their own record.
01:03:14 Almost all of them.
01:03:15 It tells you how bad they have performed.
01:03:18 That is why all of them are running away from their own record.
01:03:21 You heard once that a strategist under Mahama dollar was 4 CDs, yet we call Mahama out.
01:03:28 Today dollar is 12 CDs.
01:03:30 And you call yourself a strategist.
01:03:32 Strategist my foot.
01:03:33 That is how bad the situation is.
01:03:35 You will hear of the economic management team again.
01:03:38 Yamutu is dead.
01:03:40 All of them that were touted, the names that were being mentioned, all of them have run away from economic management team.
01:03:47 You understand?
01:03:48 So for me, nothing will come out of this mid-year budget review.
01:03:51 It won't solve our problems.
01:03:53 The only reason why the dollar has reduced, the dollar rate has reduced just small is because government is not meeting its obligation by paying contractors.
01:04:04 Right. That has been made mention of.
01:04:06 Yes.
01:04:07 The death penalty, are you in support of it?
01:04:09 The death penalty, honestly, as an individual, I don't support it.
01:04:12 I don't support it.
01:04:13 So you're happy it's been scrapped?
01:04:14 No, no, no. I'm not happy.
01:04:15 You're not happy?
01:04:16 Yeah, I'm not happy.
01:04:17 You think the death penalty should have remained?
01:04:18 No, no, it should have remained.
01:04:19 And the president, the reason why, the reason why the proponent of the cancellation or abolition of the death penalty talked about, the reason they gave was that no president since the Fourth Republic has signed for anybody to be executed.
01:04:33 Right. But that is just one of the reasons.
01:04:35 That is when we should have stand up to any president.
01:04:38 If you know you cannot actually do your work, it's part of your work, you've sworn an oath to be the president of the Republic.
01:04:45 So if somebody is being sentenced by death, you are supposed to sign.
01:04:49 That is part of your work.
01:04:51 So it means that from the Fourth, since the Fourth Republic, once no president has signed, put his signature for anybody to be executed, it means they have, they've not been able to...
01:05:00 Even a former military leader, Jerry John Rawlings, did not do it.
01:05:03 Yes, that is what I'm saying.
01:05:04 And it sends a certain signal.
01:05:06 I mean, the world is moving in a certain direction.
01:05:09 Look, let me tell you something.
01:05:11 The death penalty sitting on our books, it doesn't eat anything.
01:05:15 It doesn't cost anything.
01:05:17 I can tell you it deters people.
01:05:19 It deters people from even committing crime.
01:05:21 We shouldn't be surprised...
01:05:22 Now you think we've lost that deterrent.
01:05:24 We've lost that deterrent.
01:05:25 We shouldn't be surprised if people started killing people by heart and knowing that I'll be in prison for life and government will be feeding me.
01:05:32 Okay.
01:05:34 And that is another...
01:05:35 Do you have any quick thoughts?
01:05:36 Finally, the Addis Ababa bullying video, have you seen it?
01:05:38 Well, I saw it and I'm happy about the actions being taken by the Ghana Education Service.
01:05:45 Let me commend them.
01:05:46 Already I understand they've taken action.
01:05:49 The boys have been expelled from school and investigation is still ongoing.
01:05:53 You see, let me also caution the house...
01:05:56 Were you at border?
01:05:57 Yes, I was at border.
01:05:58 I was at border.
01:05:59 Which school?
01:06:00 Laura Secondary School in the Upper West Region.
01:06:03 I think that bullying in secondary school, what we saw there, that is not bullying.
01:06:10 That is not bullying.
01:06:11 The guy, that senior was just being wicked and just wanted to commit murder to that innocent boy.
01:06:18 That's not bullying.
01:06:19 What we all know about bullying is just the funny, funny things.
01:06:22 Oh, go and fetch water.
01:06:23 Go, you know, kneel down here.
01:06:25 Blah, blah, those simple things.
01:06:27 That's what we call bullying.
01:06:28 But bullying to the extent of you hitting at a junior when the guy was sophisticating, his eyes, you know, there were scratches all over his face.
01:06:39 He hit his head on the trunk or the bunker.
01:06:42 You know, you don't do that.
01:06:43 That's not bullying.
01:06:44 That's wickedness.
01:06:46 The guy was about to commit murder and if, assuming if people were not to be around.
01:06:51 So housemasters, senior housemasters, housemistresses, they should keep an eye on these students.
01:06:56 They should monitor.
01:06:58 Monitoring of these students is very, very important.
01:07:01 Right.
01:07:02 Thank you.
01:07:03 Thank you so much for joining the conversation this morning.
01:07:05 Cletus Seydou-Dapla, he's a member of parliament for DRAPA and he joined us this morning all the way from the Upper West Region.
01:07:13 Not that, he's been there, it's been two weeks you said.
01:07:16 About two weeks since you last went there.
01:07:19 Thank you.
01:07:20 It's been quite a conversation.
01:07:21 First time engaging you here.
01:07:23 Thank you.
01:07:24 Thank you.
01:07:25 Thank you.
01:07:26 Thank you.
01:07:26 (upbeat music)