Manhood Episode 12
Manhood Episode 12
Transcript
00:00 Manhood brought to you by Jameson, natural sources since 1922 and Racetrack.
00:13 So thanks for joining us for another conversation on manhood.
00:17 This one is a lot of dialogue that was taking place just before we hit that record button.
00:22 So I want to make sure that you guys are in on this topic.
00:26 It's a bit off topic from the subjects that we would have picked going into the season.
00:32 But it's a very important one.
00:33 Some of the feedback that we've been getting is that we need to have some younger people
00:37 on the set.
00:38 And initially I took umbrage to that because I was like, I'm a young guy.
00:44 I feel young.
00:46 I think I look young.
00:47 Don't mind the salt and pepper and all that in it.
00:52 Women don't fool yourselves.
00:53 You know, the salt and pepper is experience.
00:57 So let me get straight into it.
01:00 I have with me today, Sarius Gishard announcing training, a good friend, Kimran, AKA Crazy
01:09 Legs, influencer, producer, good partner, and Niall Royale, McNish, Royale, McNish.
01:17 He's Royale.
01:20 So you know, and the topic today, you know, with these gentlemen, gentlemen, is based
01:27 on being single.
01:30 And in being, the fact that the three are single, not necessarily disengaged, I said
01:38 single.
01:39 What do men really want?
01:41 What do boys really want?
01:43 What does the male population, Trinidad and Tobago in general, really want?
01:47 And that's what we're really here to discuss.
01:49 So Sarius is in for us for the first half of the show.
01:55 And then of course, Yohansi will join us as our behavior change consultant to give us
02:00 some more perspective on the ultimate conversation outside of what do men really want when we
02:07 start to speak about respect.
02:09 So let me get jump straight into it.
02:11 Sarius, what do the younger generation really want?
02:16 What do you want?
02:17 What does a man want?
02:18 It's tough to speak for a whole generation.
02:21 But to me, I know personally, I don't have any immediate plans or long term plans for
02:27 relationships or anything like that.
02:30 Strictly because I have to, to me personally, I've seen so many people older than me 10,
02:37 15 years older than me go through so many things on so many levels, whether it be divorce
02:41 or just toxic relationships in general.
02:44 And it really put things into perspective for me growing up and seeing all of that because
02:49 I've seen so many toxic relationships.
02:51 So to grow up and see all of that, it put things into perspective for me personally,
02:55 for what I wanted and what I want probably doesn't really align with what the typical
02:59 23 year old really wants in 2023.
03:03 It kind of boils down to me just focusing on building my wallet and building my mind
03:10 and spirit.
03:11 And growing as a person before I could even consider becoming one with somebody else.
03:16 Right.
03:17 But that's on relationships and that sounded really good for your first day at home being
03:22 on manhood.
03:23 But let's be real now.
03:26 What is it really?
03:27 What is...
03:28 Is...
03:29 Several girls, you know, you don't want a parrot on a stick.
03:31 You want to drive that luxury car.
03:34 You want to travel.
03:35 I'm not sure.
03:36 I have plenty of trust issues, honestly speaking.
03:40 Right.
03:41 And coming up in a more liberal generation when it comes to relationships, when it comes
03:49 to sexual activity, there's less of an importance I've seen recently, at least on the love aspect
03:57 of it.
03:58 Right.
03:59 That's true.
04:00 You know, it's more just an action now than anything.
04:03 Right.
04:04 I, a lot of people say I am an old soul because I am, they think I'm old school because I
04:08 look at sexual activity as making love, as two souls becoming one.
04:14 You know, so...
04:15 Hey, this guy, ladies.
04:16 This man put out his resume.
04:17 Is he doing it for the camera?
04:18 Come on.
04:19 Come on.
04:20 Really.
04:21 Like a lotted, name and number.
04:22 It's not one of those, if you're not going to put your Instagram handle.
04:23 It's not saying I'm an old soul.
04:24 I'm an old school.
04:25 I want to, I want to, you know, I want to cuddle, you know, really.
04:35 But there's two sides to that coin, right?
04:37 So it has that side of it for me because I mean, to me, there's a lack of options when
04:42 you're that type of person.
04:44 And then they have the other side of me that is just like, "Jerry, I know, start working."
04:48 And you know, recently we had a $200 trend in Trinidad and Tobago.
04:53 But to me, I looked at people's reactions to that.
04:56 Men and women across the island were talking about, "Man, $200 is plenty or $200 is not
05:05 enough."
05:06 And to me, I'm like, "I can't even afford to take myself on a date."
05:08 Right.
05:09 So Instagram handle taken down.
05:10 Right away.
05:11 No, put them back in.
05:12 But Zarius, no, I appreciate you being real.
05:13 And what it comes down to, I mean, and let me see if we could contextualize some of it
05:23 here, is that the Gen Z, the younger generations that we're talking about, it's not that sex
05:29 isn't important or it's trivialized.
05:32 It's just not as important as maybe previous generations.
05:36 It's not on our pedestal anymore.
05:37 It's not on our pedestal.
05:38 So therefore, if it happens, if your number is higher, which we're going to be speaking
05:41 about on another episode of Conversation with Manhood, if your number is, say, 20, 30, it
05:47 matters not.
05:48 That's not what you're looking at.
05:50 What connection do we have now?
05:52 What are we building?
05:53 And where do we go from here?
05:56 You know, so maybe more polyamorous relationships.
05:58 I don't know.
05:59 I mean, Nyle, you know you want to speak to that, I'm sure.
06:02 So is that what you're saying?
06:05 I mean, it's not for me personally.
06:06 Right.
06:07 I know you want me to kidnap.
06:08 I mean, I've always looked at the whole polyamory thing because I've heard Nyle talk.
06:13 I've seen the episodes where Nyle talked about polyamory and I'm just sitting here and I'm
06:17 just like, that's real things to juggle, boy, just on a daily basis.
06:21 I just struggle to talk to one person and you're talking about five, six people and
06:26 making sure everybody gets equal attention and love and activity.
06:32 And I just sit in here, I'm like, man, I can't even, like I said, it's definitely, you have
06:38 to be built for that in terms of polyamory.
06:41 You have to be, you have to see life and love as a certain way to be okay with saying, yeah,
06:48 man, I'll give you some love and I'll give you some love on Sunday and then she will
06:51 get some on Tuesday.
06:52 Or no love at all.
06:53 Or no love at all.
06:54 Or no love at all is understanding.
06:55 Well, first of all, it was never polyamory, right?
06:59 I still want one wife, I just want to have co-parents, right?
07:04 But that's a whole different topic.
07:05 But I feel what's happening now, at least in the younger generation, which I will fit
07:09 myself into it, right?
07:12 Is that there's a level of needed selfishness that is happening with men.
07:19 Long time, when a man gets successful, his first thing is I want to take care of a woman
07:23 and her family, right?
07:25 When a woman gets successful, her first thought would be, I don't need a man.
07:30 So you see there's a difference in the minute that they make it, right?
07:33 But now what I see, which is again, back needed selfishness is that when a man get his coin,
07:44 he be like, yeah, what?
07:45 I need to take care of myself first.
07:47 I need to enjoy my freedom in this plane of success.
07:51 And then if it is I find somebody of my ilk that I feel that could share my success, then
07:57 we could move forward.
07:58 Because I bet you, if you had multiple $200 in your pocket, you would have been pumping.
08:05 You would have been pumping.
08:06 You would have been like, you would have been a Suzie, a Sarah, was he seen, you would have
08:10 been flying up, doing things.
08:12 I mean, not to cut you off, but I do think I would, honestly speaking, because of who
08:18 I am, I just am laser focus on, if I have that 200 by two by three, I turn that into
08:26 a thousand, I'm looking at, okay, cool, let's make it 10,000.
08:30 I'm not stopping to look at the roses and sit down and say, all right, cool, let me
08:35 take a little bit of movie tongue and spend $60 on a date.
08:40 You understand?
08:41 - So you believe that, I remember seeing a meme where they said, if you make the money,
08:46 the women will follow.
08:48 If you follow the women, the money will disappear.
08:50 - I do believe that.
08:51 I do believe that.
08:52 - So I'm not putting women down to that's what they aspire to be.
08:56 But there is some credibility in what you're saying.
08:58 I mean, the men of the past, when you work hard, you're thinking, wow, I can look for
09:02 that mate now.
09:04 I can provide for my children.
09:06 I can do things.
09:07 I can get a house, be a man.
09:09 Do things that men, a man, be things that men generally aspire to be.
09:16 We spoke about sugar daddies at one point, but that again is another conversation.
09:20 And if you want to know more about that, look at the other episodes.
09:25 But now we're seeing that that might be the focus where the woman may still have back
09:31 in the day, and now, they may still look at that as, I make my money, I don't need a man.
09:40 And that in itself, I'm pausing because I'm like, oh my gosh.
09:46 - Now there's a lot of that in the internet.
09:47 - That just come out my mouth.
09:48 I mean, how many people are going to target the fact that I just said that?
09:52 But that's the reality.
09:53 - That's the reality now.
09:54 So if it is that a woman making her own money and she's independent, because that is the
09:59 slogan.
10:00 But the men can't say that at all.
10:01 Like I always say, women make their money, the queen independent, but we can't say king
10:06 independent.
10:07 Right?
10:08 So all well and fine.
10:10 But we just say that we go for someone and drop our standards.
10:13 - Is that a new thing though?
10:14 What you just said there?
10:15 I wasn't aware of that.
10:16 - No, I was saying something.
10:17 - Is it like toxic masculinity or mansplaining?
10:20 Is it another thing that's come up recently?
10:21 - Toxic masculinity is that a man will obviously want to be a man in certain points.
10:25 - No, no, I'm talking in terms of terms that were coined.
10:28 Is the queen part of it one of those recent terms that are going around?
10:31 - Well, most people, for myself, I can speak, obviously, I want somebody to build with.
10:36 And to get that, then you have to have understanding and 50/50 shares or whatsoever it is that
10:40 you want to go forward with, which you're not going to get either or, because it will
10:45 have a power struggle somewhere in between there.
10:47 And this is where the male testosterone-
10:50 - Bravado.
10:51 - Bravado dominance will be like, you know, we make certain decisions.
10:54 You can make your own thing, we could do this thing together.
10:57 But at the same time, I know too, is that we get in it, pull from us slowly, but surely
11:02 from under our feet.
11:03 And then we just say, "Okay, you drop your standards and you want to build with somebody
11:06 or whatsoever."
11:07 Then the probabilities of that is even lower because everybody don't want to build anymore
11:13 because of the time and investment.
11:15 They want somebody self-made immediately.
11:16 - That is true.
11:17 - And if you want somebody self-made immediately, then how much could you trust this person
11:21 for long term that they are writing for you or are they writing for your career?
11:26 - So you spoke there again, you happened to mention the word trust.
11:31 You know, Zarius mentioned the word trust, being trust issues.
11:34 So I realized trust is really top of mind.
11:36 And I want to hone in once again to the topic of today, you know, how we view things.
11:44 All of these conversations might be a reasoning as to why more and more certain fabrics of
11:50 our moral standard or compass from previous incarnations or previous generations might
11:57 be slowly but surely being torn or ripped or moved away or...
12:03 - I would say evolved.
12:05 - That's something.
12:06 So, but an older generation, it would be seen as torn or the fabric is no longer there.
12:14 But to the younger generation, it's like you said, it's evolving.
12:17 So I come back to it, not just that you guys are younger than me or certainly Zarius is
12:23 part of the Gen Z.
12:25 What do men want and being single men, what are you waiting on?
12:31 And this is not necessarily to go into a relationship.
12:34 I'm talking about out of life.
12:37 - Well, for me, working for everything that I wanted was just wanting a better life, stability,
12:44 bill-free.
12:45 So that requires more of your skill, self-worth, determination to get it done, to retire your
12:52 family, that is that period.
12:54 But for long-term men, as for myself, I would say, obviously, we want to carry on our lineage.
12:59 I want a little me running around in place.
13:02 - True.
13:02 - You understand?
13:03 - So the seeds.
13:04 - Yeah, the one that we want to carry on that.
13:06 But at the same time, I know too, like him, carrying some of our older generation morals
13:12 is that we don't want a broken home.
13:15 We don't want each other to grow up broken.
13:17 I think that men right now would rather give their all to have a family life to ensure
13:23 that they have a proper family.
13:25 - You think?
13:26 - I think so right now.
13:27 - There's so many children out there.
13:29 And I know the conversation came up at one point about the reason so many children don't
13:33 have their father around is sometimes as a result of the mother locking off the father
13:39 and not wanting the father in that child's life.
13:42 But there are many other instances where the father themselves don't want any part of the
13:46 bus around the child.
13:47 - Well, we don't call them men at the end if you can't be there for your child.
13:50 They're not men.
13:51 They will be reliable.
13:52 If you can't put that and take care of that, then we separate you immediately.
13:54 - Well, like they say, anybody can be...
13:55 - You fall under the dress I reproduce in and make it numbers in this world.
13:58 - That's it.
13:59 - And not growing men up.
14:00 And I think that's something that we're getting happening right now.
14:04 Broken homes, separation, too many people losing the value of family.
14:10 And this is where it comes down to women, I would say sometimes, but they control the
14:15 sex wherever it goes.
14:19 And men would love purity more knowing that, A, she...
14:24 We know this, if a woman say, "You ain't getting nothing until six months, one year,
14:29 or whatsoever, but this girl real nice, real thing," you as a man are gonna tell yourself,
14:34 "I will hold out."
14:36 You know what?
14:37 She's a nice person.
14:38 I will hold out.
14:39 - You're holding out with her or you're...
14:40 - With her.
14:41 - Wait, wait, wait.
14:42 You know where you're going.
14:43 - With her, with her, with her.
14:44 - Because let's be real.
14:45 You're holding out and saying, "Hey, I hear, I understand where you're coming.
14:49 I'm not pressuring you."
14:50 - I know you're talking about otherwise.
14:51 - But while you're not pressuring...
14:52 - Because she's a man.
14:53 - While you're not pressuring, right, you're dipping in another woman's jaws.
14:54 - Yeah, yeah, obviously.
14:55 But that is men.
14:56 And I just talking about with primitive inmates at the end of the day that have no control
15:01 over hormones, that we need to just go out there and be like, "Yeah, boy, I feel good."
15:08 If we're gonna know who it is, because we have to release that.
15:11 Women on the other hand, I would always say more evolved because they have the power to
15:14 control that.
15:15 But let me just say, you know this female at the scene, but this girl real nice, she
15:19 just real good, everything like that.
15:20 She running thing for you, she's saying, "Hey, nine months I real like you, you had a hold
15:24 off."
15:25 But let me just say, you know this girl who...
15:27 But you're watching that one and you know you can't choose she has a long term because
15:33 why?
15:34 You're getting it.
15:35 So if I get it, who else getting it?
15:36 - I just wanted to answer, respond to that.
15:41 But we're gonna take a short break.
15:43 We're not gonna have much dialogue because I really want you out there to hear a lot
15:48 of the conversation that happens behind the scenes.
15:51 I want it now in front of the camera.
15:55 And to finish off on that topic, but again, I still don't feel I have the nugget as to
16:01 what single men really want.
16:05 And again, to speak about this respect and feeling disrespected.
16:09 So I don't wanna hear more from Zarius as well.
16:12 So we're taking a short break and coming back with some of this juicy conversation that
16:18 seems to somehow go on to relationships when I just want to know what else you want.
16:37 - We're back with Manhood.
16:39 As always, in between the break, we had an intense conversation happening and we had
16:44 to stop the conversation just so that we could include you guys back into the mix now.
16:49 So where were we?
16:51 What we was actually discussing in between the break was they wanted to get down to what
16:58 single men wanted.
16:59 And I feel that the answer is really simple, personally for me.
17:04 One, we don't wanna make the mistakes of our parents.
17:07 I find that's the main thing.
17:09 We saw the errors that they made and we don't want to make them.
17:13 And two, we just want to enjoy our life.
17:16 - Now, in that enjoyment, is that you don't want responsibility?
17:20 - Yes.
17:21 - Is it commitment issues?
17:24 - I don't wanna say commitment issues because I still want to be committed.
17:28 It's just not in the time frame that most people would have deemed me to want my commitment.
17:34 So you're supposed to be ready for marriage by the time you enter into it.
17:39 That's how it used to be.
17:40 But now, men want to play in their titties.
17:43 So it's really, to be honest, it's a stunted maturity is what I feel a lot of men want.
17:49 They wanna play a little bit longer than they need to or should based on society's needs.
17:58 - So you still think that, and I just want to put it into context, play a bit longer
18:02 just like women are working longer and their careers are going longer and they're finding
18:07 other ways through technology, et cetera, to say freeze the egg.
18:12 They're being forward thinking, but at the same time, they're telling themselves, "I
18:17 want to be able to, in my 40s or late 40s into probably sometimes even 50, still have
18:23 the option to really fulfill for myself."
18:26 So it's not selfish.
18:27 It's probably acknowledging more self-worth as to what you want to then, because of that
18:33 biological clock and all the technologies allowing it to then say, "Okay, at this stage
18:36 in my life, I'm going to settle."
18:39 And I know women or people a lot of times have an issue with that, would settle and
18:44 compromise.
18:45 But what I'm trying to get from you, is it that you're saying that men as well want to
18:50 play longer but still have that vision that you want a family, you want that picket fence,
18:57 you want that – you want children, you want a dog, or is it that you not on any of that?
19:05 Like is that even a thought?
19:07 Is that you feel that you really have that – everyone has that need to spread their
19:11 seed?
19:12 I actually think I'm most – I'm sure that you want a family, right?
19:15 No?
19:16 Wow.
19:17 Wow.
19:18 Like, that's what I'm saying.
19:19 Okay.
19:20 That's what I'm saying.
19:21 I want it, but –
19:22 So to continue on what you were saying there, right, again, I kind of grew up being educated
19:29 a certain way, right?
19:31 I grew up with teachers telling me, "Look at the world, we take any resources, we pollute
19:37 in, we need less people, we're overpopulated," right?
19:40 So I'm looking at the world and being like, "I need to add more."
19:43 I'm looking at the society that I would have to bring a child into and the responsibility
19:50 because a lot of people I feel have kids – me personally, I feel like they have kids for
19:54 selfish reasons.
19:55 They want to have a kid because you want to have a kid.
19:57 Not true.
19:58 Right?
19:59 So, in any scenario, would never be the guilty person.
20:04 The kid didn't ask to be here.
20:06 The kid didn't ask to be born.
20:08 You had the kid, right?
20:10 It happens.
20:11 Actions occur and you end up with your end result nine months later.
20:15 So you had said something about trust and commitment issues, right?
20:21 And not wanting to repeat the mistakes of our parents.
20:26 And I definitely agree with that.
20:29 I strongly agree with that in a way because you grow up – the divorce rate in every
20:36 country across the world, especially in the Caribbean, in the States, in Canada, everywhere,
20:41 has grown, right?
20:43 And crazy, like I was talking about earlier, where sometimes you put two years, three years
20:47 into a relationship and you feel, "Okay, maybe I'm ready to take that next step and
20:52 make that commitment and say, 'Okay, that person should be my partner for the next half
20:58 of my life, for the next quarter, three quarters of my life.'"
21:01 Till death.
21:02 Till death do us part.
21:03 Till death do us part.
21:04 Right?
21:05 And I find a problem sometimes looking at that way of thinking and saying, "Okay, I'm
21:12 going to meet somebody and I'm going to be with them forever."
21:15 Forever's a really long time.
21:17 You know, during COVID, my grandmother passed away and it put mortality into perspective
21:23 for me, right?
21:25 Because you know death is always looming over every person, but I feel like when you reach
21:31 a certain age where maybe you lose somebody that's close to you in life and it puts
21:35 it into perspective where, right, it's going to happen to you eventually at some point,
21:42 but you know you're living on borrowed time.
21:44 You have one life to live.
21:45 You only live once, right?
21:47 So I used to have that opinion of, "Yeah, man, one, I'm going to grow so be great with
21:52 this person or whatever."
21:53 And then I turned around and I looked at it and I'm just being like, "That's one life.
21:57 Who is that special in the world that you want to marry?"
22:02 I looked around at, I started looking around because I like to observe things plenty.
22:06 So I started looking around at my surroundings, at people in my age range.
22:10 I started looking at what my brethren were doing.
22:12 I started looking at what cousins were doing, girl cousins, guy cousins, all of them.
22:17 And I started observing of how their relationships were, if they were even happy to begin with,
22:23 if they were happy by themselves, if they were happier by themselves, or if they were
22:26 happier with this person.
22:27 What did they understand when they went into that relationship?
22:31 What did they understand that they were getting out of it?
22:33 You know, I listened to this podcast once where, you know, the male and the female were
22:39 having a conversation and the male went into it with thinking commitment and he knew, "Okay,
22:44 this is longevity and it's part of what a relationship is."
22:48 The woman went into it with expectation.
22:50 And the moment that expectation dropped and the vows would have been for better or worse,
22:56 and it started to get to that period of worse, it's like, "I didn't account for this.
23:01 I was expecting this part of it."
23:03 You know, sickness and in health, "I'm not up for that."
23:06 And it's how honest and true you are to yourself when you're giving that commitment as to whether
23:11 you can really handle it and what you expect out of that person.
23:15 You know, I had a conversation with a friend of mine just, you know, a couple of days ago.
23:21 And one of the things was that in the relationship, what she liked about the person was that he
23:27 made her laugh.
23:28 I see.
23:29 And, well, you know, that's a lot.
23:32 Women like somebody who can make you laugh.
23:33 It's a lot, of course.
23:34 But is that person--does that mean that the chemistry, the physical chemistry, was that
23:41 chemistry there?
23:42 The answer was no.
23:43 So the moment that laughter dissipated, right, or the fellow became a bit demanding in other
23:48 things or felt a bit cocksure about himself, you know, it's like, "Who you feel you are?"
23:54 So the dynamic changed.
23:55 The dynamic changed.
23:56 Like, "Wait a minute.
23:57 You're not making me laugh as much.
23:58 Oh, now you feel you're something?"
23:59 Because to her, it's like, "Well, you're not that strapping man that I really have attraction
24:04 to or may have had attraction to or is out there.
24:07 You know, I want you for laughter."
24:09 And then from--so again--
24:10 And then it turns out you're not that funny.
24:11 Yeah, and it might be that funny, you know, or it's not funny that you're broke.
24:17 You know?
24:18 So--
24:19 It's not a laughing matter.
24:20 Yeah, it's it, but--
24:21 Yeah.
24:22 So it comes down to really and truly, you know, I've always said that maybe vowels should
24:25 change now to, "I will always give you my truth."
24:29 Because like you said, the younger generation of that would forever--and even in jobs, you
24:35 know, the factors are six-month turnover.
24:38 This job-for-life type thought process or way people ascribe to is no longer there.
24:47 But again, I just--because I know we have to take another short break, and I want to
24:51 thank Izarias for being here and being honest.
24:53 And we want--of course, we're going to invite Yohanse in to give, you know, his--the psychology
25:01 behind a lot of the behaviors and the why, you know, commitment issues or resolve.
25:07 Just to be, you know, to really, you know, your sort of final thoughts--well, final for
25:13 this conversation--and clarify maybe not just your perspective, but what again--and I keep--I'm
25:22 going at it because I still don't feel I have it.
25:26 What does a young man want out of life at this point?
25:31 And I'm glad that you said that it's not always to have children to procreate.
25:35 It's not always to see yourself, because that, in a way, could be selfish.
25:39 You could be being selfless, or you could be being--it might be admirable that you're
25:44 telling yourself, "I don't want to add to the commerce that's out there.
25:48 You know, I don't want to add to the seven-point-something billion when the planet was only designed for
25:51 two-point-something billion."
25:53 There are many conversations around those things.
25:57 Again, it depends, you know, what angle you're going to go, whether you're young or you're
26:01 young.
26:02 So, sorry, let me just--
26:03 So, definitely thinking about what I want from life is probably balance.
26:09 As you said just now, yin and yang.
26:14 To live just a balanced life on all levels, whether it be spiritually, financially, emotionally,
26:21 to try and get better in touch with how I feel about certain things on a daily basis,
26:27 on a yearly basis, going forward, what my plans are, really, to tell you the truth,
26:32 honestly, I have no immediate plans for a relationship, like I said earlier.
26:37 Definitely, kids might probably be out of the question, just because, again, raising
26:42 another person is a very big responsibility.
26:46 When you can't figure yourself out.
26:47 When you don't know who you are.
26:49 You know, I'm not saying I don't know who I am, but I mean, a lot of people who have
26:53 kids don't.
26:54 A lot of people have the ability to be a mother and a father, but not a mommy and a daddy.
27:01 So I heard a lot of that this past Father's Day, when a lot of people were giving praise
27:08 to everyone can be, well, every man can be a father, but not every man can be a daddy.
27:15 So it put things into perspective for me when I used to think about if I'm ready, because
27:21 you have activities, you go to a party, you go to a lime, you meet a girl, sometimes things
27:26 happen, right?
27:30 If you don't protect yourself accordingly, a lot of the times a kid pops out nine months
27:34 later.
27:35 So-
27:36 That whole conversation we had about just the tip.
27:38 Yeah, yeah.
27:39 So-
27:40 Biggest lie.
27:41 So sometimes whether you want to or not, whether your religious beliefs are abortion
27:47 or no abortion, whether anything on that spectrum comes into play, sometimes you just have to
27:52 man up, take responsibility and sit down and raise a child.
27:57 Might not always be an option, but it is what your life turns into sometimes when you make
28:02 certain decisions and it comes down to what decisions you make now.
28:07 So just to put into context, guys, I know we have to go to the break and I want to hear
28:11 from Krazy and Niall with regards to, is it then that we're seeing the younger generation
28:18 now living more in the moment?
28:22 So it's not like they don't have a plan, their focus is on, let me, I'm not, the past is
28:28 gone, past is prologue, right?
28:30 The future is not assured, the present is a gift, right?
28:33 And so are we living in the moment and just enjoying what that presents?
28:40 I think it's less pressure from the parents because where every generation had passed,
28:45 they used to take on the traditions of the home.
28:48 And as the generations, as you get younger, shifting, that pressure becomes less and less
28:56 and less and less.
28:57 So now, when it comes to the, what was your generation name again?
29:04 Gen Z.
29:05 Gen Z.
29:06 Crazy, right?
29:07 So his parents are pressuring him to have a family and you need to have a good job and
29:14 get a wife at 23.
29:16 My father was married at 23 with his first child.
29:20 I can't even fathom that, you understand?
29:23 So, and you're 23 now.
29:25 Yeah, that puts things into perspective when you're living.
29:27 So I actually think so it's less pressure coming down through the generations.
29:32 So when you say the older generation looking at the fabric being torn, it's not that, it's
29:37 more like they would keep up the stitches in the fabric to keep it together.
29:43 Crazy.
29:44 Just to add overall of this whole thing, I think where it is that we lost our way along
29:51 the way is that men forget how to be men.
29:55 Or let me just say that we don't have a community for men or course to be a man.
30:03 And that's something that we need to find back to help build society or understand men
30:09 or help them mentally because certain things that we'll come across in life.
30:14 So you're saying, and I wanted to finish your point, I just want to make sure that we're
30:18 on course here.
30:19 When you say they've lost their way, is it that we're saying that the old way was the
30:23 way?
30:24 Well, the old way was.
30:25 And that if we bring back the old way.
30:26 The old way, for example, like we were saying, 23 year old, your dad had a hit and run around
30:31 that, right?
30:32 But your dad raised a good son, was able to have a household, was able to do all these
30:36 things with the economy back in that time, which shows that somehow he had a formula
30:42 to be a man, to provide it, to make sure everything was good.
30:45 My son get his education and so on and so forth.
30:48 And I think majority of us have that benefit from that generation.
30:52 And we lost that somewhere along the line because why?
30:55 We get too partyish.
30:58 We get too much asprey.
30:59 And like you were saying earlier, men in their titties, yeah, why?
31:04 Because wealth or stability is harder to find in your 20s or your teens, but you gain it
31:11 from the last of your 20s, your titties.
31:13 So you say, "Hey, I want to enjoy this money now.
31:16 I want to go here.
31:17 I want to buy that."
31:18 A good time to take a pause.
31:22 A lot to take in there.
31:24 Maybe a lot of some conversation behind the scenes, because I'm not too sure I fully
31:27 ascribe to what you're saying about old ways and new ways, because things change as you
31:32 go along.
31:33 Yes.
31:34 And what the older generation may have had, they wouldn't have had access to social media,
31:40 cell phones, the access to planes, to cheaper flights.
31:45 All of these things make communication.
31:47 So it's good and bad, because now you're open to a lot.
31:50 There are the negative sides to it, but there are also the positive sides to it.
31:53 For me, I remember having a pen pal and ICQ and things like that was my only connection
31:58 when I was living in Germany.
31:59 Writing a letter.
32:00 So things are different.
32:01 Correct.
32:02 And the art of doing those things have been lost, but things have progressed at the same
32:08 time.
32:09 But did that have much more value, writing a letter?
32:12 I hear.
32:13 You remember writing a letter, not so?
32:15 I do.
32:16 I don't know if I could write that much again, because I'm always typing.
32:19 But we take a short break.
32:21 Zarius, thank you so much.
32:22 Been a pleasure.
32:24 For being honest, for being here and giving us your perspective.
32:39 So once again, a lot of really, really good conversation.
32:43 Johansi, glad you're back with us.
32:45 I know you took in a lot of the conversation that Zarius brought to the fore as a young
32:50 person.
32:51 And I know we are young people ourselves.
32:54 People do get caught up with the white in our beards, et cetera.
32:57 But I want to take this segment and use this segment to really now focus on honing.
33:04 We heard a lot of variations and different ideas as to what men really want.
33:10 But does it come down to what men really want is respect?
33:14 And let us talk about-- we hear a lot of times people say, well, you're disrespecting me.
33:20 Whether it be a man to a man, a man in a relationship, a man at work, it always comes down a lot
33:26 of times to that ego, which is you either feel respected or disrespected.
33:33 Does that have to do with scarring?
33:37 What's your take on what do men really want?
33:39 All right.
33:40 So we dive in deep into the word disrespect.
33:43 What do men really want?
33:45 Again, we're not speaking for all men, but we're going based on our relationship with
33:51 ourselves because we are men first.
33:53 And then, of course, we interact with a lot of men.
33:55 So I'll give it from a personal point of view first.
33:59 Disrespect for me has evolved over the years in terms of from relationships around people,
34:04 et cetera.
34:05 And I'll give the example we spoke about the phone before.
34:08 To me, a fear on the phone while we're talking is a disrespect.
34:13 Because of course you say, well, I'm doing something, but I'm listening to you.
34:17 If you give a caveat, I would take it.
34:19 But if in the middle of speaking, you just look down at your phone, to me it indicates
34:22 that whatever you're doing is more important than me.
34:26 Now here's the part, the more important part.
34:29 So now I'll segue to a conversation I had with an inmate who he was doing a robbery.
34:36 And in the robbery, he killed, I think, two of the victims.
34:41 And we always say, well, just rob the person why he killed them.
34:44 And I had the opportunity to ask him why he killed them.
34:48 And what he said, now I'm not justifying what he said.
34:51 But essentially what he said is that they disrespected him.
34:56 Because what he wanted, and this might even go a little deeper now, a lot of criminals
35:02 I've spoken to, what comes down to when they commit crime is at that moment, all the attention
35:09 is on them.
35:10 Now, here we're telling you, and they say a pause reason, because this is that deep.
35:16 They didn't get certain recognition when they were young.
35:20 Recognition, respect, right?
35:22 So sometimes even unconsciously when they're committing a crime and all attention is on
35:27 them, they are the center of attention.
35:30 The attention that they may have not gotten from where it is parents, et cetera.
35:35 So when he said he was disrespected, the people didn't react the way he thought they should
35:41 react.
35:42 So it's not an indictment.
35:43 I'm not to say they cuss him or anything like that.
35:46 He is the perpetrator, and they're supposed to react a certain way because they have to
35:51 respect him.
35:52 And respect in his mind looked a certain way.
35:56 But they didn't react that way.
35:57 To cower, to cry, to do all of these different things that they may have asserted themselves.
36:02 Yes.
36:03 He said one person did not cry.
36:04 He said one person did not look frightened.
36:06 Right?
36:07 Now, inside the person could be frightened, but they did not look frightened.
36:12 And I'm saying that because even to us, we personally have our own perceptions of respect.
36:18 And I will say it again, my belief is common sense does not exist.
36:23 What exists is your sense and my sense.
36:25 So it's not even common.
36:27 We have different values, different norms, et cetera.
36:29 So we view the world through different lenses.
36:32 So now if we talk about respect and disrespect, we're viewing it through different lenses.
36:37 And it may not always be through the lenses of being from a healthy place, because I don't
36:42 know anybody who had a perfect childhood.
36:44 Right?
36:45 So therefore, there are scars that we carry.
36:49 There are things that we did not get that we would want in terms of our emotional and
36:55 mental development.
36:56 So now, when somebody may be saying, you know what, I was looking on your phone because
37:01 you're saying that topic and I really want to research it for you to help you.
37:04 Their place may be coming from a sincere place.
37:06 But as soon as I see you on the phone, it automatically is disrespect.
37:11 As soon as I see, and this is one I encounter a lot in couples therapy, your facial reaction.
37:17 So even my wife, because sometimes I have a stoic face in terms of my profession, I
37:24 don't react.
37:26 I would say I thought it would help in those endeavors.
37:29 But sometimes, wife will say, you're not listening.
37:32 I don't even see no reaction from you.
37:34 So now that could be disrespect.
37:35 And then if I do something, she could say, well, what are you tinkering your face so
37:39 for?
37:40 Right?
37:41 So it is that perception of, well, you don't like what I say or what?
37:46 Or even the facial reaction could be rudeness, because I've encountered this a lot with parents
37:50 and children.
37:51 The child, really sincere and not being rude to my parents.
37:55 I'm not showing any disrespect to my parents.
37:57 But that parent perception is either, well, you shouldn't have no reaction at all.
38:03 But then, of course, when you have no reaction.
38:05 So if you understand what I'm saying, and if you're bringing it back to men.
38:08 So your neolinguistics are important.
38:10 And like, even in your profession, you have to be mindful as to how the other person may
38:15 interpret certain things.
38:16 So you may be, like you said, listening.
38:18 But to me, for example, when you were on your phone, it made me feel, if we're talking about
38:24 feelings, that--
38:25 You chose to feel.
38:27 That I chose to feel.
38:29 And that means I was out of control, because I've given off my emotion to someone else
38:33 to determine what I felt about myself.
38:37 So yes, in other words, I chose to give off that control.
38:41 The student has become the master.
38:43 You know, with regards to this.
38:48 But in seriousness, at that point, it was-- when you say you're listening to me, it's
38:55 like it's an option, because had it been someone maybe of maybe another stature or seeing something
39:01 that was really important to you at that point, you would have given me that full attention.
39:05 I'm just talking about into how many people interpret.
39:10 You know, women say a lot of times that I'm nobody's option.
39:13 You know, I'm the first choice.
39:14 And if you're not giving me that attention, or you're not giving me all your love, or
39:21 in different aspects of it, I'm nobody's option.
39:24 You hear?
39:25 But again, that's for another conversation.
39:30 I want to come down, come back to the fact that it comes down then to a certain level
39:37 of scarring, or your societal influences growing up, as to how you perceive respect and disrespect.
39:46 And also, more importantly, when we ask the question, what do men want, respect is huge
39:53 on the agenda.
39:56 Because it strikes the ego, and what Niall might feel disrespected by, I might have no
40:02 issue with.
40:03 Vice versa, what Niall may feel respected by, I might feel disrespected.
40:07 So I want you to really kind of dig deeper into that for us, and hear from some of the
40:13 other guys.
40:14 And you said something at the start, and I just want to once again say it, because we
40:17 haven't said it in a while, is that we're not speaking on behalf of all men.
40:22 We are a few men speaking to all men.
40:25 So this might be my opinion, but it's my thought on the topic.
40:31 Being, and I say this often on the show, on this conversation, being true to yourself,
40:41 I think should be our highest priority as men.
40:44 Right?
40:45 Now I'm talking to myself too, because sometimes I have difficulty in just being honest.
40:51 Even if I perceive the person might not take it in the way I want them to take it.
40:56 Because even those scars, disrespect and scars, how would we even heal or even elaborate on
41:04 those things if we're not honest?
41:05 So you said, you're on your phone.
41:08 If you didn't communicate to me, I would not have even been aware of that.
41:12 And I say I noticed that even with my wife, because sometimes when she said, you know,
41:16 this, when you do this, it indicates this to me.
41:19 So we had a conversation.
41:20 Is this your intent?
41:22 And then she understood.
41:23 So then now when even sometimes I go on my phone, when she's speaking, we already had
41:28 that conversation.
41:29 So she understands.
41:30 So now it's no longer disrespect.
41:31 But let's just say if I didn't say anything, if I wasn't honest, because a lot of us may
41:35 just keep things inside and we let it ruminate and let it fest and then say, she's a disrespectful
41:42 person or he's a disrespectful person, not actually having that conversation.
41:47 Now that is how common sense is formed because now two people speak.
41:51 So the sense becomes common between two of them, but it's not innate.
41:56 So I put it in that way.
41:57 And then I want to add to what you're saying.
41:58 That's powerful.
41:59 That's powerful.
42:00 I like that.
42:01 And I want it out.
42:02 You impress yourself there, I'm sure, right?
42:03 You're like, yeah.
42:04 You're like, correct, correct.
42:05 You know, I realize that.
42:06 And the reason why that is powerful, because you touched a nerve with me with regards to
42:15 something that I go through very often, where many people feel disrespected by sometimes
42:22 my disposition with them, right?
42:25 And whereas I know it's passion to that person's aggression.
42:29 So you might find, I don't like how he spoke to me.
42:32 And or I might be speaking to a wifey.
42:35 And she, as you said, the sense is now common.
42:38 She now understands that when I say something, it's not out of aggression.
42:43 But to someone else hearing, to them, it's like, oh, he talked us over.
42:47 But it was just said.
42:49 It wasn't-- there was no malice.
42:52 There was no aggression by it.
42:53 So now, even more so, when I'm speaking to people, because of the depth of my voice,
42:58 I almost go through some levels of anxiety, where I'm speaking to you, and I'm like, did
43:03 they-- so when you hear-- people know-- when you hear this rambling, sometimes the rambling
43:09 is because I'm trying to bring context, trying to make you aware that, hey, I'm not saying
43:14 this in an offensive way.
43:16 I'm not saying this to hurt you.
43:18 I'm not saying this to disrespect you.
43:20 I'm just saying something.
43:23 One thing I've learned being in the social realm, and this will carry a long way for
43:29 people, and it's a skill that you have to derive.
43:32 And it's one that take everybody neutral.
43:36 Because every person is going to be different, and like you say, everybody will be disrespected
43:40 differently.
43:41 And the way that you take something from someone might be weird, might be out of place, but
43:47 that just may be the character, for example, like yourself.
43:50 And it all comes down to you, how you reacted.
43:54 And if you reacted in the manner of, well, he reacted like that, I'm very disrespectful.
43:57 Or if it is that you want to be like, it is not my concern.
44:01 That is the person how he is.
44:02 If it is that how he is, if somebody has to speak to him, they'll speak to him.
44:05 But for your inner peace, accepting people for how they are sometimes.
44:11 But as a chosen feeling crazy, what I'm saying to you is you may interpret that that's how
44:15 he is.
44:16 Right.
44:17 But that- That is how you are.
44:18 But that might not be how I'm-
44:19 Assertive way of trying to degrade anyone.
44:21 Correct.
44:22 Right.
44:23 So you want everybody to understand you.
44:24 So the sense becoming common, I like and I take it, the sense-
44:27 Let's not do this in our mind, should I?
44:30 You know what I mean?
44:33 I didn't do so.
44:34 I didn't-
44:35 Let's not do this in our mind.
44:36 Okay, I see.
44:37 I see what- And I think that's important because if you take it from a neutral perspective,
44:44 then you're still subject to interpreting how that person is.
44:48 And I'm not going to choose to feel a particular way.
44:51 But it comes back down to that mightn't even be the way I was actually feeling in the first
44:57 place.
44:58 No, but then after somebody will- Then after you're asking for somebody to judge you.
45:00 You see, if you stay neutral, if that's how Robert is, Robert is that.
45:04 That's how we react to get these things done.
45:06 Let's go forward.
45:07 How do you react to get your things done?
45:08 And if we just respect everybody's way how they get along because we know obviously it
45:14 has no malice, like you said.
45:15 We're not trying to disregard or degrade anyone.
45:18 This is just the manner how they care about themselves, but they always mean well.
45:21 You can- And I think this is something that people are always in their emotions.
45:26 Because anything that gets so ticked to them, "God, but he was stupid."
45:30 But they don't understand that if you look deep down inside, there's love still in that
45:35 person.
45:36 They don't look at you any differently.
45:37 They're just passionate about what they do.
45:40 They want it done, plain and simple.
45:42 But it's just that how the person gets on, they just want to react to the person's emotion.
45:48 So we have another soft touch like with Zarius where they want to make love.
45:52 You know, so this is crazy soft touch.
45:54 But I just say because if it is that you want to stay seen as men and this is what most
46:01 fights has happened because before a fight even happened, you could communicate it before.
46:07 Because one thing I don't understand is, did I say something to disrespect this person?
46:10 And if you be a man about it and be like, "Hey, brother, if I disrespect you, I'm sorry.
46:13 I didn't mean it.
46:14 We're probably different in our manner, but let me talk to you a little, Rob."
46:17 And you can save a life with that.
46:19 But if you choose to feel that way or react on that, basically what you're doing is you're
46:23 out of control.
46:24 And you have no control of your emotions.
46:26 Again, as we always say in manhood, the conversation will...
46:32 This particular conversation needs to end, but it's a topic that needs to continue and
46:36 we will discuss it more and more and more.
46:38 So gentlemen, what do men really want?
46:42 Your final thoughts.
46:43 And Johan, I'd like you to close with that because you might come in with another common
46:49 sense.
46:50 100 billion euros.
46:51 Go for it.
46:52 Go for it.
46:53 [laughter]
46:54 Let's start with you, Nyle.
46:56 What do men really want?
47:00 Just to keep it on the topic of respect, personally, I feel that...
47:05 Let me go with what men should thrive for and it would be, I feel that a perceptive
47:12 maturity, that way they could understand what someone else, the perception of someone else.
47:19 And I feel that that's where the key of communication comes in.
47:23 And after that, life does get real easy because essentially what men want is just peace, a
47:28 peaceful life.
47:29 No stress, balance.
47:30 And I wish Zarius was here at the time to hear this part because he said that he didn't
47:37 feel that anybody would be special enough to spend forever with.
47:41 But having a woman by your side, especially a good woman, yeah, you would be a different
47:47 type of man.
47:50 You give a woman a seed of your plan and watch that grow into a oak tree.
47:57 And I feel that's really important to have.
48:03 I think what men really want is to become the best version of themselves, but they don't
48:09 know how to.
48:11 They want that stability to be that man that their father will or who they will, that mentorship
48:16 or make sure that the family that they have for the future have everything or go through
48:20 the struggles that they don't and try to be the best version for their kids and be everyone,
48:26 but they don't have the guidance.
48:28 And I think that comes down to the fear of failure to actually turn on them heavier than
48:35 the possibility of becoming greater.
48:38 So I think it's more of men just want to really find the real purpose of being a man long
48:47 term and not just know.
48:50 - That's it.
48:51 - Why do we place so much importance on respect or even more so on being disrespected and
49:02 act accordingly?
49:04 - I'm going to tie that answer into both of your answer because we place that's important
49:11 on disrespect because we want to be free.
49:16 We want to be accepted for who we are by the outside world.
49:22 But the thing is, if we don't accept ourselves or who we are inside, then we're forcing it
49:28 on others.
49:29 So I would say not necessarily know what men want versus to get what we want, we should
49:37 develop the courage to be exactly who we are, to be the courage to be your true self.
49:43 Your true self may be flawed, you may have the scars, but if you're honest about it,
49:48 even if it's to yourself, you're able now to open it, you're able to face it and become
49:53 better instead of us trying to make everybody around us respect us or make everybody around
50:00 us accept us.
50:01 - A lot of nuggets in there, a lot of nuggets in there.
50:11 Making sense come on.
50:12 That's a good one.
50:14 - Or do something else.
50:16 - So that's a big one for me.
50:21 So what do men want?
50:23 I hope we've touched on maybe given some sort of perspective.
50:30 What do I want is to be the best version of myself and to leave a room better.
50:34 It may sound cliche, but to leave a room, a place, a legacy better than I found it,
50:40 a positive impact and for the almighty to say, "Hey, you did well."
50:46 That's ultimately what I want and what I would strive to be.
50:51 So Niall, crazy, Johansi, always a pleasure.
50:55 This was a really good topic.
50:58 Manhood.
50:59 Thanks for joining us.
51:08 - Manhood brought to you by Jameson, natural sources since 1922 and Racetrack.