Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Rob Bailey, joined by Medway Council Leader, Vince Maple and Sevenoaks Conservative, Claire Pearsall.
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00 Welcome to the Kemp Politics Show live on KMTV. I'm Rob Bailey. This evening we'll
00:19 run the rule over Labour's first three months in charge of Medway Council. When he took
00:23 charge in May, Council leader Vince Maple said his priorities were the cost of living,
00:28 rogue traders and GP services. But has Harvey's hands been tied by the Council's own financial
00:34 challenges and could there be cuts and higher costs on the way for Medway residents? Well,
00:40 Councillor Maple is here tonight and also with me is Sevenoaks Conservative and former
00:44 government special advisor Claire Pearsall. Welcome to both of you. Thank you for joining
00:48 me on our last show before a summer break. Vince, I want to start with you. We're going
00:52 to start talking a little bit about finances because that's the issue that really everything
00:55 else springs out from, isn't it? You've been tweeting about it this week. We know Medway
01:00 Council has got some challenges. £12 million overspend on last year's budget. Reserves,
01:05 you've said at the minimum level that is safe. I've had Kent County Councillors on the show
01:11 over the last few weeks talking essentially in apocalyptic terms about their situation
01:16 and about how dire it is for KCC. How bad is it at Medway? Look, all local government
01:24 is in a difficult place and I think one of the things I think you'll see over the next
01:28 12 months, those who are interested in politics will know the councils that have had problems
01:34 in the past of various political persuasions and in most of those cases it's been either
01:40 because of poor judgment or poor governance. I think what you'll start to see now is councils
01:47 of all political persuasions but particularly those upper tier councils who have got responsibility
01:52 for care struggling to the point of where there will be difficulties. I think that comes
01:58 as a result of the lack of resources we've seen from central government, for local government
02:04 particularly. Lots of people talk about there being a care crisis but actually we need some
02:09 resource to deal with that. So that's a real challenge, not just for us in Medway but across
02:14 all of those upper tier authorities of course here in Kent, KCC as well. There's some specifics.
02:19 We've got to deal with the fact that government have taken away a £170 million project. Michael
02:24 Gove's government department deemed to do that. I disagree with that. I think their
02:28 decision making was wrong and I find that deeply disappointing but we will proceed.
02:33 We've pledged that we'll deliver a local plan for Medway because not having one frankly
02:39 puts our community, our infrastructure at jeopardy so we will press on at pace. It's
02:45 been 20 years since we last agreed a local plan in Medway so there are lots of challenges.
02:51 Do I want more resources for Medway? Yes of course I do. I'll be fighting every day to
02:55 get that in as would any council leader across Kent regardless of what party rosette they're
03:00 wearing. So it has been a bit of a speedy few weeks since annual council and there's
03:06 a lot more still to be done. So we'll come back to some specifics around that in a second
03:11 but as Vince said there, this often comes back and you hear council leaders of all different
03:14 stripes saying this is about austerity, it's about the whittling away of council funds.
03:18 How much of the blame of the situation we see at Kent, at Medway, can be laid at the
03:23 door of the government do you think? I think a fair amount which might surprise you that
03:28 I think that but local governments have been asked to take on so much more. Everything
03:33 that central government doesn't want to deal with it then devolves down to local government
03:38 with no extra money to do so. So Vince is right, I think that local authorities, whatever
03:43 their colour, are going to struggle. You can only raise so much through taxation because
03:49 you can't hit your residents, you can't keep hitting them at an ever increasing pace. But
03:53 also the cost of things like repairing roads, GP and hospital services, social care, education,
04:02 all of these kind of things, social services, come at an enormous cost and with a growing
04:06 population, extra housing that we all need, something has to give and I think that the
04:12 government is going to seriously have to reconsider what it is asking local governments to do
04:16 and how much it is willing to fund. So you said cost of living obviously was a really
04:22 big driver during your election campaign, a top priority for you as you came into power.
04:28 But you've been talking this week in one of your Voice of the Leader column about difficult
04:31 decisions ahead and difficult decisions is often the euphemism for the prices of certain
04:36 services might go up, council tax might go up, there might be cuts to various different
04:41 services. Does that undermine to some extent the work that you're doing on the cost of
04:45 living crisis here in Medway? I think there's two separate conversations. I said very clearly
04:51 during the election, cost of living was a priority for us, Keir Starmer made it a priority
04:55 for me and all the new Labour council leaders and I've delivered that cost of living plan
05:00 within the first 50 days, recognising some of the stuff that the council was already
05:04 doing before the election. I'm not churlish enough to say everything has been created
05:08 since May 4th, bringing that information together but importantly investing around £40,000
05:14 in a scheme which will get around a quarter of a million pounds into people's pockets.
05:18 So a good investment and something that will make I think a positive change. On the situation
05:23 more generally, Rob you're right as you raised earlier on, the out-term from last year, last
05:28 year's budget was built on reserves anyway. The previous administration ended up spending
05:33 more than the double of that amount, so £11 million of reserves, they can only be spent
05:38 once and we are at that situation where our section 151 officer, our chief finance officer
05:44 if you will, is very clear that the level of reserves we currently have is the minimum
05:48 that would be acceptable for an organisation of our size. So yes as we move forward and
05:54 we see what the settlements are from central government for next year's budget and indeed
05:58 we manage this year's budget which was built by the previous administration, we will look
06:02 at that carefully. We know that the resources that will come through from central government
06:06 won't do everything we need to do and actually the previous administration failed to make
06:11 some challenging decisions over the last few years and it's been left to us to pick up
06:16 the pieces frankly. In the election campaign Keir Starmer was very visible, I think he
06:19 was in Oxford where he went for a big local election launch saying if Labour had been
06:25 in power this year there would have been a council tax freeze. A lot of people would
06:28 have looked at that and said well if I vote for Labour that means lower council tax in
06:32 future. Do you think that was disingenuous? Do you think you're going to be in a position
06:35 now where you have to raise it because the funding just doesn't work otherwise? Look
06:39 I think that was very much a pledge for this year, in part because of the windfall tax
06:44 and viewers would have seen the record profits from British Gas this year so it would be
06:50 interesting to see how that plays out over the next few months. That was a national policy
06:54 so it's for Keir and Lisa and Andy to come forward with that. We've pledged locally to
06:58 have the lowest council tax in Kent, we'll continue to do so. As Claire rightfully says
07:05 there are only, even without the referendums which kind of put blocks on councils necessarily
07:10 raising council tax excessively, although we did see that in Croydon this year, they've
07:15 had a set of financial circumstances which meant residents there have got a 15% council
07:20 tax increase. That won't happen anywhere in Kent as far as I'm concerned but we will continue
07:25 that pledge, we've said that and we'll continue. In part because again Medway has had the lowest
07:30 council tax actually predominantly, without boring people with the history of politics
07:35 in Medway, because of the Labour administration and the old Rochester upon Medway council
07:40 and the finances and resources they brought into Medway. So from that perspective it's
07:44 an old Labour legacy we're building on and will continue as we move forward. But the
07:48 times really are different and I understand what the Labour Party want to do and they
07:54 want to reassure people that taxes aren't going to go up and money from the windfall
07:59 tax but unfortunately the windfall tax money seems to have paid for three different projects
08:05 across Labour policy decision making and announcements. So it's really, really difficult and it's
08:13 difficult for everybody. I'm not suggesting that I've got all of the answers but I think
08:17 you're going to have to make some really tough decisions. As you know you've looked at your
08:20 own set of finances, I have no idea what they're like but there are going to be some really
08:24 tough choices to make. Other councils are going to have that as well. But I think it's
08:28 quite unhelpful for central government of my party or even Keir Starmer and the Labour
08:35 Party looking to come into government to say we are going to freeze things, we are going
08:40 to not put prices up, we are going to remove taxes off whatever. Because I think the country
08:46 is in such a state at the moment and given the worldwide sort of problems that we're
08:52 seeing it's very, very difficult to suggest that you can cut any taxes, freeze any taxes.
08:57 I think that is disingenuous to the public and it's not a criticism of you and your administration
09:04 because I think that the demographics you have, the problems that you have, the amount
09:08 of people that you have in Medway to look after are enormous. There are some real problems
09:12 there that you have to solve with very few resources. So I don't envy your task but I
09:17 think that perhaps your central office kind of command isn't really helping you.
09:23 From my perspective I'll hold the current administration to account so I'll be holding
09:27 Michael Gove to account. I want there to be a new government probably next October, that's
09:32 a presumption. I'll be holding Lisa Nandy and Keir Starmer to account for what they
09:36 put to the country as well. And again it's about, I say, a phrase I used at the last
09:42 full council meeting. Someone asked me about what hope do you bring to Medway and I talked
09:46 about honest hope. So I'm not going to give people false hope because that's not good
09:51 for anybody. It is about saying look these are our pledges, we will deliver those but
09:56 actually we're going to have to make some difficult decisions in part because the previous
09:59 administration failed to do so.
10:01 I wanted to ask you before we have to get to the break, we've got a couple of minutes
10:04 left, about the local plan. You mentioned it earlier, the £170 million of infrastructure
10:09 funding that was lost out on partly because Medway doesn't have a local plan. What time
10:15 scale? On your website it says summer to autumn 2023, we'll start seeing a consultation happening.
10:20 Can you be more firm about when we're going to start seeing something from Medway?
10:23 I'm hopeful that we'll bring forward a report to either, I think it will be the September
10:28 cabinet, I'm hopeful of that. We're working that through so I can't make that an absolute
10:33 commitment because of course one of the things we saw previously is reports were brought
10:37 forward and then withdrawn. I think certainly September or October at the latest we'll see
10:41 that come forward. I'd encourage all viewers to get involved. Quite often people talk about
10:46 the local plan being about a housing number. Of course that's important but it's about
10:49 employment, education, infrastructure. So I want to hear as many voices as possible
10:55 giving us their views as we form up what Medway will look like in 2040.
10:59 We have precious little time left Vince but just before the break I want to ask you, Adrian
11:02 Goulvin said this week that you haven't yet published the letter which explains why Medway
11:06 didn't get that £170 million. Will you publish it?
11:10 Look, the information will be readily available. We were working through some final details
11:14 with DELUC and Homes England. We're almost at that final point. There's a briefing specifically
11:18 for councillors in early August. I made sure that's now with all councillors. I want everyone
11:23 to have that information. We will be a transparent administration.
11:26 Excellent. It's time for a short break. When we come back we'll find out if Medway has
11:31 a secret plan to cut car emissions as one MP suggested this week. And with wildfires
11:37 raging across Europe we'll ask why some UK politicians are turning their back on climate
11:42 policy. And would Vince be happy to work under a Kent and Medway elected mayor? Stay with
11:47 us.
11:48 [Break]
11:54 [Break]
12:01 [Break]
12:08 [Break]
12:15 [Break]
12:22 [Break]
12:32 [Break]
12:42 [Break]
12:52 [Break]
13:02 [Break]
13:22 [Break]
13:42 [Break]
14:02 [Break]
14:22 [Break]
14:42 [Break]
15:02 [Break]
15:09 Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV. Now, Rochester and Strude MP Kelly
15:15 Tolhurst this week accused Medway Council of having a secret plan to bring in an ultra-low
15:20 emissions zone. It was confirmed today that the expansion of London's Oulers will go ahead
15:25 next month after Mayor Sadiq Khan won a High Court challenge. But the ruling will only
15:29 intensify the political debate. Sakir Starmer wants the unpopular plan to be reviewed to
15:35 avoid a car crash at the next election. And Conservative Kent County Council leader Roger
15:40 Gough has threatened further legal action unless the plans are thrown into reverse.
15:45 Well still parallel parked with me here on the sofa is Labour and Co-operative Medway
15:48 Council leader Vince Maple and Sevenoaks Conservative Clare Pearsall. Welcome back. Clare, we'll
15:54 wish you soon act be privately celebrating today. He's now got a stick that he can hit
15:58 Labour with for the next year, hasn't he? Yes, he does. But he's also got a lot of very
16:03 angry Conservative run councils whose bid to the High Court has been rejected. So he's
16:09 got some really angry council leaders, some really angry councillors and a lot of very
16:13 angry members of the public who will have to pay £12.50 to go into this zone. I'm against
16:22 any kind of Oulers expansion. I wouldn't like to see it come anywhere near Medway into Kent
16:27 or anywhere else. And I think that this is an absolute cash grab by the London Mayor
16:33 Sadiq Khan. This is not about clean air. This is about balancing his own books. So I'm all
16:38 for a little bit of further legal action should it be possible to take. But I think that yes,
16:44 Rishi Sunak will probably decide this one is a win for him because he can point it at
16:49 the Labour Party quite squarely. And Keir Starmer really does need to take a position
16:53 on this before it's too late. Well, that leads us nicely, Ben. Before we get to Sir Keir
16:59 Starmer's dilemma on this, I have to ask, otherwise they'd withdraw my press card. Do
17:03 you support the Oulers? So do I support Oulers in London? In London? Yes, because I think
17:08 actually part of the reason I do is because they've got a far more matured public transport
17:14 system. In Greater London? In Greater London as well. You can get buses and Elizabeth lines
17:21 and all of that other stuff. I do think where I have some sympathy, I think the scrappage
17:25 system could and should be expanded further. I think that's a Department of Transport issue
17:31 and I hope that they listen carefully. I think I understand why councils would want to make
17:36 a legal challenge. We talked in the first half about council finances. That's several
17:40 hundreds of thousands of pounds now not in local government coffers that were before
17:45 this process. But actually, this is more important than party politics. This is about air quality.
17:52 This is about making sure that we don't have any more people than we have to have with
17:58 reason for death on their death certificates, as we've seen tragically once already and
18:03 I fear we will see more in the future because of air quality. I know Claire wants to come
18:08 in, but just quickly then on the Medway issue then. Kelly Tharough said, is your Red Route
18:14 the first step you've made on trying to clear up air pollution around schools in Medway?
18:18 Is that just the start of a grander plan? Look, if there's a secret plan, no one's told
18:23 me about it yet and I'm the guy in charge these days. So look, do we want to tackle
18:28 air quality? Yes, we do. We've got some terrible hot spots here, which are a shame on our collective
18:33 community. So we need to do more on that. If Kelly Tolhurst knows where there's going
18:37 to be a EULAS in Medway, maybe she'd like to tell us. Do we want to tackle air quality?
18:42 Absolutely. Do we want to tackle things like idling and actually just inconsiderate drivers?
18:48 Yes, we do. We're going to use some processes. Her cabinet, former cabinet colleagues brought
18:54 this forward. We want to take it forward further and we will do, but there'll be no EULAS
18:59 in Medway and to think there's a secret plan. Well, I think she's probably more worried
19:03 about Lauren Edwards taking her job next year. She needs to focus on that.
19:08 So Claire, I mean, obviously you represented Sevenoaks up until May and that's right on
19:13 the brink of Greater London where people will be travelling across the border every day.
19:17 I mean, what do you think when Vince says he supports it, what were your reaction from
19:21 the Sevenoaks point of view? Well, I mean, to be fair to Vince, he did sort of qualify
19:24 it by saying in central London where there is the good public transport system. I think
19:29 where the problems come and where this is ill thought through is on those boroughs.
19:34 So if you look at places like Warpington and even in Dartford where some roads, people
19:39 have to come out, turn left just to exit their own road and they cross into a zone. Now that
19:45 isn't driving in central London. That is just getting out of the road in which they live
19:50 and they may be going back into Dartford. They may be going somewhere completely different.
19:52 Their nearest train station might even be actually within a London borough.
19:55 Absolutely. And I think until we have much better preparation for a grid of charging
20:02 systems for electric vehicles and better transport systems, especially I live in quite a rural
20:08 village and our transport is pretty much non-existent. So you have to have a car. So I think until
20:12 we catch up on all of those things, you can't look to impose these kind of zones and affect
20:19 those people and affect local businesses, small businesses in particular that have a
20:23 van like a window cleaner or a plumber or a sole trader of that nature who have no choice
20:28 but to have a van and drive. So it's going to cost them more. I wouldn't like to see
20:32 any of those go out of business.
20:34 So Keir Starmer has a little bit of a dilemma now, doesn't he? I mean, he has asked Sadiq
20:39 Khan to review it a bit. He hasn't said withdraw it. He said, just look at it and make sure
20:43 it's fair. But there is a bit of expectation out there now that Labour is going to have
20:48 to make some kind of political concession to people in places like Uxbridge who have
20:52 demonstrated they're prepared to vote against Labour on this issue. How do you think he's
20:58 going to handle that?
20:59 Well, look, part of it is around do you believe in devolution or not? I do. And we'll talk
21:03 about that later on. And therefore, if you have a mayor, they should be empowered to
21:07 get on with it. And actually, they will, you know, people will be voting whether they want
21:12 to keep Sadiq as their mayor or not in the due course. So that's a matter for them. I
21:17 think more widely, we saw, I think it was the Times front page last Saturday that had
21:23 Rishi Sunak looks at this with interest. And then you had fires in roads. And actually,
21:29 for me, it's about saying this is not just a central London or outer London or Kent issue.
21:35 This is a worldwide issue. And I accept entirely the arguments of saying, well, we're only
21:40 X percent of this. And what about these countries over there? Well, it's about our sphere of
21:44 influence. So I'd want to see the next government. I hope it's Labour. But whoever it is, frankly,
21:49 the next five years are critical with this. Those are not my words. These are the words
21:53 of scientists who know far much more on this than frankly, probably any politician. And
21:58 I do think in this case, we do need to listen to experts.
22:01 It's quite interesting. We've had the issue of the mayor come up a couple of times in
22:04 this and how powerful Sadiq Khan is because of his large personal mandate as London mayor.
22:10 Now, you're on the record as being against the idea of an elected mayor for Kent, something
22:15 that Kent County Council is now leaning towards officially. But there's an argument, isn't
22:20 there, that if we had a directly elected mayor in Kent, they would have the political clout
22:23 to be able to, for example, say to the Department of Transport, people who live in Dartford
22:28 and Sevenoaks really should have access to a scrappage scheme if they have petrol cars
22:32 that need to be replaced. You can't fight the kind of political power Sadiq Khan has
22:37 unless you have equal political power. Can you?
22:41 That's right. And that's why I'm quite a fan of exploring this further. And I think a mayor
22:45 for our great county would be a good thing. I think that we need to be able to fight for
22:51 what we need from a government of any description, because you only have to look at the problems
22:56 you have down at Dover from the port to small boat crossings, to social care, to the road
23:02 network and all the rest of it. You need somebody to be able to fight on all of these basis.
23:07 Now, I'm not convinced you also need to be a member of a political party in order to
23:12 do so. And I think that perhaps we will see more independent minded candidates coming
23:17 forward because you need to have what's best for the county in mind, not just the political
23:22 colours that you happen to have on your rosettes.
23:24 You've said you're against the idea of a directly elected mayor, but for devolution. What kind
23:30 of a model do you think could work for Kent?
23:32 Well, put simply at the moment, we've got a binary choice. It's like, do you want these
23:35 powers and resources? If you do, you therefore must have this single form of governance.
23:42 Actually Lisa Nandy at the LGA conference earlier in July was clear that actually an
23:48 incoming Labour government would take a more nuanced approach. It would be for people like
23:53 Roger, myself and other leaders in local government to come up with something which works for
23:59 us and what works for Medway and Kent will be different perhaps than what works for Sussex
24:02 or Essex. But at the moment, it's a binary choice. So you either have the mayor and the
24:08 powers that go with it or you don't. And for me, at this stage, we've just had an election
24:12 in Medway, not one person said to me, what we desperately need is another layer of elected
24:18 bureaucracy. Now, of course, we weren't asking that question, I accept, but actually I want
24:24 to see a more kind of mature approach to this because actually what works for Kent and Medway
24:31 won't necessarily be what works elsewhere. But that shouldn't mean we shouldn't be at
24:35 the table getting those extra resources and powers. We spoke about public transport. I'm
24:40 desperate to have a more joined up approach to tackle the problems of public transport
24:44 in the rural areas, in the urban areas. But at the moment, unless we lump down for an
24:52 elected mayor for Kent and Medway, that's not possible. So actually, we need a more
24:56 mature approach. And again, whoever gets in next October, if it is October, I hope it's
25:01 Lisa Nandy, we need to see that conversation. Are you worried about the power imbalance
25:05 that a model that doesn't involve a mayor might create? Because Sadiq Khan or whoever
25:09 replaces him in future is always going to be there with that enormous personal mandate
25:13 that gives him a power that is far, far greater than any individual council or council leader
25:19 will ever wield in Kent. So if there's an issue which Roger and I agree on, for example,
25:25 I'm sure there will be, I'm sure there are, you know, us two writing together, we're writing
25:30 for two million people, the two of us. Now, some people would say, well, that's no good.
25:35 It should be 22 of you. Other people would say, actually, get rid of both of you and
25:39 have one person instead. There'll be a mixture of views on this. So I do think where there
25:43 is consensus, even, you know, Kent's got the most diverse political leadership in local
25:49 government it's ever had. But actually, on lots of things, we had a meeting earlier this
25:53 week, there was agreement. I'll bring Claire in before we wrap up. Claire, the view in
25:57 Sevenoaks, are boroughs in Kent going to be in favour of devolution or against it, do
26:01 you think? I think they'll take the sort of pragmatic view as to what it means and will
26:07 the district become one of those that actually gets access to a lot of money? Because the
26:11 problem with Sevenoaks being the demographic that it is, people assume that it's very,
26:15 very wealthy and therefore isn't entitled to the various pots of money that you can
26:20 bid for. Whereas Medway, Swale and places like that are really quite successful in getting
26:25 that cash. So I think if they thought that there was the ability to increase the living
26:31 standards for some of those people in those areas, they'd be for it. We must wrap up there.
26:35 Thank you both for coming in. That's all from us tonight. It's also all from us for this
26:39 summer, but we'll be back in September with more political analysis and discussion. Stay
26:43 tuned for Kent tonight for all of the top stories around the county and we'll see you
26:47 later on.
26:47 [Music]
26:49 [Music]
26:52 [Music]
26:54 [Music]
26:58 [Music]
27:03 [Music]
27:05 [BLANK_AUDIO]