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00:00 Hi, I'm Antonia Blythe, Senior Awards Editor.
00:04 Next up, we're going to be talking about the Apple TV+ limited series Blackbird,
00:09 created by Dennis Lehane.
00:11 The show is based on an incredible true story of Jimmy Keene,
00:15 played by Taron Egerton.
00:17 He's a convicted drug dealer who is offered his freedom
00:20 in exchange for befriending a suspected serial killer,
00:24 played by Paul Walter Hauser.
00:26 He has to extract from him a confession in prison.
00:30 Here to discuss her work on the show is the Emmy-nominated cinematographer
00:35 Natalie Kingston, who shot all six of the series' episodes.
00:39 Welcome, Natalie.
00:41 Thank you for having me.
00:42 Thank you for being here.
00:44 So before we get to talking about the show, let's take a look at a clip.
00:48 This is what I did?
00:52 I didn't do this.
01:01 I didn't.
01:04 Yeah, but you did, Larry.
01:09 You did.
01:16 [SIGHS]
01:18 No wonder why I can't sleep at night.
01:33 [SIGHS]
01:35 Wow.
01:50 That's quite a scene.
01:52 Um, you know, let's start with talking about that clip, actually,
01:56 because this is a show that really looks at toxic masculinity
02:01 and obviously the darkest of dark misogyny.
02:07 And in that scene, we see there's Paul Walter Hauser
02:11 doing an amazing job playing Larry Hall, the serial killer.
02:15 And we see him reduced and small,
02:18 and he's framed by the authoritarian figures.
02:23 Tell us about setting that scene up,
02:26 what you knew you wanted us to feel watching it,
02:30 and how you worked with Paul and the other cast on creating that moment.
02:35 This moment was--
02:38 We really wanted to make the audience feel like, you know,
02:42 everything was coming down on Larry Hall at this moment in time.
02:47 But it was also raising a lot of questions.
02:50 Is Larry Hall telling the truth?
02:53 Is he lying?
02:55 Is he falsely admitting to crimes that he didn't commit?
02:58 You know, this was sort of his game that he would play with everyone,
03:02 all of the detectives and cops who have, you know,
03:05 tried to get confessions out of him.
03:07 So, you know, it was really raising more questions than anything,
03:12 but then also the idea of just, like, backing him--
03:17 You know, with that long camera push-in was the idea of backing him
03:20 into this corner and making him vulnerable
03:24 and ultimately deciding to sort of sign his life away.
03:29 Mm.
03:32 Let's talk a little bit about the conversations you had
03:35 with Dennis Lehane before beginning the project.
03:40 What did you know you wanted to achieve going into this?
03:44 Because this is-- It's such a specific project.
03:48 It's based on a true story.
03:50 It's incredibly difficult to watch some of it in the best way possible
03:55 in that it's so affecting.
03:57 How did you go into this and decide how you were going to make your approach?
04:05 Yeah, I think, you know, I was really interested in--
04:11 Or I thought Dennis' perspective on this was really inspiring
04:18 and really what got me into this
04:23 is because he wasn't interested in playing up the violence,
04:27 being very literal with the story, being on the nose,
04:32 you know, making these killings feel very heightened or theatrical.
04:36 It wasn't about that at all.
04:38 This is a human story and it's character-driven.
04:41 And it was about this uncomfortable, intense dialogue
04:47 between these two prisoners,
04:50 this unlikely kind of false friendship.
04:53 And there's so many different complex layers within that.
04:57 And, you know, for him, it was about examining where each male in this series
05:03 lies on that spectrum of toxic masculinity and misogyny.
05:08 And there's no-- Nothing is black and white in real life.
05:12 And he wasn't interested in painting this picture of like,
05:15 "Here is the bad guy, the serial killer who is 100% bad,
05:19 and here is the good guy. Everyone is flawed."
05:22 And it was about showing glimpses of humanity
05:25 within Paul's character, within Larry Hall.
05:29 And at times you're laughing with him and you're, you know--
05:35 Although he did so many bad things and there's a lot of evil within him,
05:40 but he still is a human being.
05:44 And so, you know, the challenge of painting that picture
05:50 and showing that through a visual language
05:54 was really an exciting challenge.
05:57 And a lot of that came through restraint with the camera,
06:01 of, you know, not moving the camera a lot of times
06:05 because I felt that that really increased the tension in a lot of scenes
06:10 and created this sense of claustrophobia.
06:14 Like Larry and Ginny were feeling, you know, in this prison
06:20 where they couldn't escape.
06:23 And, you know, making the audience feel like they couldn't escape
06:26 this weird, uncomfortable relationship and just drawing them in closer.
06:32 And so that when we did move the camera, it really, really meant something
06:36 and you felt it and nothing was ever to it.
06:41 So when you talk a bit about the nuance, you know,
06:46 there's no black and white here.
06:48 I really felt that when there's a scene where Paul is being questioned
06:55 by Greg Kinnear's detective character right early on
07:00 and you have the shot right up on Paul's face, you know,
07:04 he's got these sideburns that are part of his whole shtick, if you like,
07:08 you know, where he's into his soldier revival thing.
07:14 And we really feel like he's vulnerable.
07:19 He's like this boy, but we're looking at his face so close.
07:22 Can you tell us about that and how you--
07:25 I mean, maybe that is a way that we almost relate--
07:32 it sounds weird to relate to a serial killer,
07:35 but we do in a way relate to him as a teenage child.
07:39 Exactly. So it was, you know, it was not again, you know, making,
07:44 you know, painting the picture with lensing, you know,
07:47 with focal lens or composition or lighting.
07:50 It really wasn't about treating him any differently
07:53 than we did the other characters or humans.
07:56 You know, it was again just emphasizing that this person is a human being.
08:01 It was examining, you know, especially in episode four,
08:05 where we see Larry Hall as a child, how he was raised,
08:09 what his dad did to him, you know, nature versus nurture,
08:12 examining that as well.
08:14 So, yeah, it's just about, you know,
08:17 showing him just as a vulnerable human being, you know.
08:22 And, you know, the idea behind shooting, you know,
08:27 the choice to shoot large format in a two to one aspect ratio
08:31 was to sort of like create this landscape, if you will,
08:35 with these faces, with these characters.
08:39 So you really-- so the audience would feel just really, really immersed
08:43 and right in there with them and could feel every nuanced expression,
08:49 every reaction, just because I knew a lot of this was driving
08:53 on these very long dialogue scenes.
08:58 So I really wanted the audience to just feel every movement,
09:02 every blink of an eye, you know, when Taron would maybe, you know,
09:08 lose eye contact for a second or, you know, showing him holding restraint,
09:13 you know, and we really wanted to play that up.
09:15 So I felt like that format was a perfect way to enhance that.
09:22 One of my favorite scenes is-- well, there's so many,
09:28 I can't really pick, but season-- sorry, episode three,
09:33 where they talk about-- they're in the boiler room, I think,
09:39 and Taron and Paul are having this dialogue where it becomes clear
09:45 that Paul thinks that normal sex is right.
09:49 And it is such a harrowing scene, but it's brilliant
09:53 because those two actors just hold this incredible back and forth
10:01 with us knowing that Taron is horrified, but we don't see it on his face.
10:07 Tell us about building that with those actors.
10:10 It's so brilliant.
10:12 Yeah, I just-- and I think that was actually one of the first scenes
10:16 that we shot with the two of them together,
10:18 and then one of the first ones that you see in the series.
10:21 And yeah, at first you think, you know, it's just casual small talk,
10:25 and it's like, okay, you're always questioning,
10:29 okay, when is Jimmy going to-- you know, how is he going to play this?
10:33 Because the time is ticking, the same time, you know,
10:36 he has to be quick about this, but he can't give himself away.
10:40 So he just has to-- you know, this first conversation,
10:44 he just really has to sit there and take it all in
10:47 and sort of just like swallow it.
10:50 And, you know, I just thought that, you know,
10:53 just witnessing Taron's performance, it's like a performance
10:57 within a performance in a way, because as Jimmy Keen,
11:00 he's having to perform, he's having to act like he's interested
11:04 in Larry Hall, and he's his friend, and he thinks this is cool.
11:08 And, you know, and within Taron playing that role.
11:12 So it's just-- it's so layered.
11:15 And in that particular scene, we really didn't move the camera much.
11:21 It was one of those instances about, again, showing restraint
11:25 and just really sitting in this uncomfortable space with these actors.
11:31 And we draw a little closer and closer to them,
11:34 physically closer with the camera, as the conversation gets more awkward
11:40 and weird and disturbing.
11:43 It's so disturbing.
11:46 I also do want to talk a little bit about Ray Liotta,
11:50 the late, great Ray Liotta.
11:53 Tell us about working with him and that whole experience.
11:56 I mean, the scenes with him and Taron in the prison are just--
12:01 I mean, it's electric.
12:04 Tell us overall about that experience working with Ray.
12:09 I mean, Ray was such a legend, and I'm just so honored
12:13 that I got to photograph one of his last performances.
12:18 And he is just such an artist, such a filmmaker.
12:24 He would rarely go off to his trailer in between setups
12:28 and would stay on set and just be a part of the filmmaking.
12:32 And I loved that.
12:34 And, yeah, just seeing he and Taron's chemistry
12:40 from the very first scene, from their first interaction,
12:44 was just absolutely emotional and mesmerizing.
12:49 And it's like they really were father and son.
12:53 It was so, so good.
12:55 It was--yeah.
12:58 So finally, just to wrap it up, tell us what you're most proud of
13:02 about your work on this project.
13:06 Oh, that's a good question.
13:13 As I talk to people who have seen the show,
13:18 just regular people or interviewed with other press,
13:21 it seems like people really picked up on what we were trying to do visually.
13:27 And it seems like people really felt that tension we were trying to build
13:34 with the camera, with lighting.
13:38 And a lot of people told me that they just couldn't stop watching the series
13:45 and they binged it.
13:48 And I'm really proud of that.
13:49 I'm really proud that we were able to create a really grounded visual language
13:57 that people really felt moved by.
14:03 And it seems like it was effective.
14:08 And I feel like I'm rambling when we started.
14:13 That's why it's the only--that makes sense to me.
14:17 We've watched it three times.
14:20 It's just--we get so good.
14:23 So, so good.
14:26 Yeah, I think I'm really proud as my first TV series that I've shot
14:32 that I was able to shoot the entire series myself and create the look
14:39 and maintain a certain level of consistency throughout
14:45 for it to be effective.
14:47 And, yeah, I'm really proud of the work as a whole.
14:50 So thank you, Natalie, so much for being here to talk about Blackbird.
14:54 Congratulations on your Emmy nomination.
14:56 It was wonderful having you here.
14:58 Thank you so much for having me.