On Patrol - Episode 4 Firearms Section
Robert Dumas, C.O.P. Gary Griffith & Head of TTPS Firearms Division David Swanson discuss illegal weapons, and the application process for Firearm User Licenses (F.U.L.)
Senior Superintendent Wayne Mystar also takes viewers through a weapons demonstration.
Senior Superintendent Wayne Mystar also takes viewers through a weapons demonstration.
Transcript
00:00 [MUSIC]
00:10 Have you ever read the warning tags on some of your household items,
00:17 where it says misuse of this item can cause serious injury or death?
00:21 Well, a gun is one of the few items where if you use it exactly as
00:25 the manufacturer recommends, will cause serious injury or death.
00:29 In these dangerous times, would you feel safer if you own the gun?
00:33 If you said yes, you're not alone.
00:36 There are about 40,000 applications for a firearm user's license lodged with the TTPS.
00:41 And one man is in charge of giving that stamp of approval.
00:44 That's our co-host, Police Commissioner Gary Griffith.
00:47 Tonight we take you through the process of applying for
00:50 an FUL with the head of the TTPS's firearm division, David Swanson.
00:54 And Senior Superintendent Wayne Meister, who gives us a weapons demonstration.
00:59 Owning a firearm is no joke.
01:01 It will literally change your life.
01:04 I'm Robert Dumas.
01:05 Let's go on patrol.
01:06 [MUSIC]
01:28 A lot of people living in fear, the crime situation.
01:31 When I interview persons, a lot of them would speak to me about them being fearful
01:36 for their lives and just wanting to protect their family.
01:39 And they understand it.
01:41 Yeah, and they understand that the police can't be everywhere all the time.
01:46 Seconds cost lives.
01:48 So, one of the things Commissioner and I discussed is that,
01:54 there are so many persons out there with illegal firearms causing havoc and
01:59 mayhem to the law abiding citizens of Trinidad and Tobago.
02:03 That he's just trying to give them an opportunity, a chance to defend
02:08 themselves, yeah, a fighting chance to defend themselves from would be predators.
02:13 [MUSIC]
02:23 So, would you like to see more civilians armed?
02:37 >> Personally, I really don't have a problem with having more civilians armed.
02:44 >> But with the right training.
02:45 >> With the right training.
02:46 >> The public would be safer with firearms in the hands
02:51 of the competent and the persons that are deserving of having them.
02:59 >> Yeah, most definitely and it's probably all of our people's survival mindset.
03:03 We must have that mindset at all times that this weapon is a weapon for defense.
03:08 It's not to show off, it's not a small deal.
03:10 And to let everyone know that, hey, I have a firearm.
03:14 >> Citizens who have a desire to protect themselves and
03:18 their family can apply for a firearm.
03:22 This is according to the Firearm Act.
03:24 You must meet certain criteria.
03:26 You must be above the age of 25 years.
03:29 You must be in good standing with your criminal record, of course.
03:35 So that's why we ask for a certificate of character.
03:38 We also ask for persons to not have a history of domestic violence,
03:43 as clearly stated in the act.
03:45 We must test the psychological aptitude of somebody because,
03:50 remember, we place in a firearm into your responsibility.
03:54 That if you are not stable mentally, if at a whim,
03:59 you get angry and would want to even draw your firearm to intimidate persons.
04:08 I mean, that in itself is an offense.
04:10 So we would want persons with a particular temperament to be the holders
04:15 of firearm users licenses.
04:17 >> We have persons who are overzealous, so you know, the wanton and
04:20 person to that.
04:21 Yeah, you know what, I have this piece of equipment in my hand,
04:25 which makes me feel powerful.
04:26 So that is all part of survival mindset.
04:29 The least person to have a firearm in their hand.
04:32 >> You may receive a phone call.
04:34 Mr. Dumas, my name is Pockel or Sarkand, whatever.
04:38 I am in possession of a firearm application file that you would have
04:41 tendered.
04:42 And they would then call you in for an initial interview where they would ask
04:46 you for certain things.
04:47 They would ask you for a letter from your wife or your spouse.
04:51 Some people aren't married, so maybe the parent or someone that could give you
04:55 a character reference as to the type of individual you are.
04:59 But if you do a psychometric and you are deemed to be mentally unfit,
05:03 well, then we can't grant it to you, right?
05:06 Because you would have to look for some other alternate means of protecting
05:09 yourself.
05:10 What we have had, what we have now is that a lot of people write the
05:15 Commissioner of Police.
05:17 And I do not know where he finds the time, but
05:20 he responds to every single letter that he gets.
05:25 In 2004, the act was amended to cater for
05:31 persons to be trained in the use of a firearm for a period of two months.
05:36 So the act has what they call the grant of a provisional permit.
05:41 >> It's like a provisional driving permit where when you get that,
05:44 that gives you the authorization to be on the road with an instructor.
05:48 >> Right. >> So the provisional permit for
05:50 the firearm is the same thing where you are actually,
05:52 that gives you the authorization to handle a firearm.
05:54 Because you can't just handle a firearm, just like that.
05:56 >> Right.
05:57 >> So it gives you the authority to handle a firearm.
05:59 >> I didn't know that.
06:00 >> Yeah, with a certified firearm instructor.
06:03 >> Right.
06:04 >> That instructor has a responsibility to ensure
06:08 that you are competent at the end of that two month period.
06:11 Because we have policies go by policies for not authorized firearm instructors,
06:16 so they can make what are crash course, which is not good at all.
06:19 >> Yeah. >> So without crash course,
06:21 so I'll give you an example.
06:22 The police is gonna handle a firearm for the first time,
06:25 let's say a semi-automatic pistol.
06:27 This contact hours, contact hours,
06:28 supposed to be at least 16 by international standards.
06:32 >> Right. >> 16 contact hours.
06:34 And we are observing the past that persons are just carried on the range,
06:37 they just show A, B, and C, and probably within an hour,
06:42 they are giving us a certificate of competence.
06:43 We're looking at the administrative use of the firearm, which is firearm safety.
06:47 And knowing what kind of weapon you have, the specifications of the weapon.
06:51 And then we have the operational use of the weapon.
06:54 Having the ability to hit the target deliberately,
06:58 I wanna use the word deliberately.
07:00 You know exactly where you wanna put your shot.
07:01 So if I wanna put a shot in the chest,
07:03 [SOUND] I will just put it there by chance.
07:07 >> Right. >> I'll put it in there because I know
07:09 I wanna put it there.
07:09 [MUSIC]
07:20 >> A healthy dog is a hydrated dog.
07:22 No, not just wet, hydrated.
07:25 Give him Purina Dog Chow, high protein wet food to complement the hydration he needs
07:30 with the flavor he loves.
07:31 Feed him Purina Dog Chow.
07:33 [MUSIC]
07:43 [MUSIC]
07:52 >> When the paperwork comes back to the firearm section, it is then at
07:57 the discretion and the determination of the commission of police to
08:02 grant the firearm user's license, right?
08:05 What happened in the past was that,
08:09 the fires would come back and they would just be pending decision with no real
08:15 action being taken to say, well, yay only.
08:20 And that's what we're trying to address right now.
08:22 We still trying to make a lot of headway.
08:25 Because what we have is,
08:29 even though there's a backlog of applications outside awaiting decision,
08:36 we have a backlog of fresh applications also that we are processing.
08:40 We have over 1,000 fresh applications to send out.
08:44 When I came here, the file number was about 36,000.
08:48 We have crossed 40,000 files.
08:51 There's a machine that we would be using that when we input the data
08:56 onto the system, we'll be able to print all of that onto the card.
09:00 You have your picture and have all your firearm information and the barcode.
09:03 The barcode will be in the video to the firearm user.
09:07 I've heard FUL users actually say that it's part, becomes part of your body.
09:15 Well, I always use this analogy.
09:17 A mother with her newborn baby, that newborn baby after care and
09:23 until that newborn baby, throughout 10, almost 18 years.
09:30 But this firearm can't be, this firearm must be treated as such.
09:35 So it must be something that you just neglect.
09:37 You need all of our FULs leaving their guns in their glove compartment and
09:41 with the function of FULs leaving their firearm in the toilet.
09:45 Because they tell us that this is an instrument that they know what to use.
09:48 But it's something that you must be careful because those guns in itself
09:53 will not kill somebody, but guns in the wrong hands will cause a lot of damage.
09:58 Women have a tendency, they like to keep their firearm in place.
10:02 What if somebody snatched your place and run?
10:05 Right, so as a woman, you need to understand that your dress code has to change.
10:11 Your game code as a parent has to change.
10:14 These are just, if you really want the fire, there are some things you will need to
10:19 give up and some things you will need to change about the way you react on your lifestyle.
10:24 [MUSIC]
10:34 All right, so here we are at the Triennial Rifle Association range.
10:49 My portfolio, I'm the Vice President of the Triennial Rifle Association.
10:54 We have a number of ranges within one area.
10:57 And you can see a lot of large backstops, which makes it a very safe environment for
11:03 the purpose of shooting.
11:05 We're in the area where we're wearing a lot of PPEs because of the COVID-19 pandemic.
11:10 But on the range, it is mandatory that you must have air protection and
11:15 eye protection, it is mandatory.
11:18 So if you have an instructor who is telling you get accustomed to this song and
11:22 that kind of thing, that's not good news at all.
11:25 So eye, air, and possibly a baseball cap,
11:28 those are good on the basic protection that you need on the range.
11:32 We address safety in three basic environments, that is safety at home,
11:36 safety at the workplace, and safety on the range.
11:40 At home, it is very important to have your firearm in a safe place.
11:44 So person's supposed to be, home's supposed to be kept in a safe,
11:48 where you can be locked and so on.
11:50 The fireman ammunition must be kept separately but
11:53 easily accessible when it's at home.
11:55 So we have a basic target, this is one of the targets we use for competition.
11:58 But generally, targets are configured almost the same way.
12:02 So if you look at this properly, you'll see this area looks like a head.
12:07 And this area looks like the thoracic cavity.
12:09 This is the biggest part of the body.
12:11 So when we are training officers,
12:14 we allow them to take a shot at the biggest part of the area.
12:18 So the range is hot, we put on there various PPEs, and then we'll go into action.
12:23 So we spoke about the deliberate shooting, and
12:25 we spoke about executing the four basic principles.
12:30 So one is the grip, as I mentioned before.
12:32 I'm gonna shoot in an exercise stance, so I have the grip.
12:36 I'm in my stance.
12:38 I'm now going to demonstrate and put a shot in the center of the target, the 10.
12:46 I'm going to deliberately do that.
12:48 So I'm gonna go up there, get my sight alignment.
12:50 I'm gonna get my finger on the trigger, and
12:52 I'm gonna tell her squeeze that trigger slow and continuous.
12:57 [MUSIC]
13:00 I will now reset the trigger, and
13:02 that is one shot exactly where I said I was gonna put it, dead center of the target.
13:08 Over and over.
13:09 [MUSIC]
13:19 He was on target there, I saw it first hand.
13:31 Well, let me just address from the outset that Superintendent Meister,
13:34 the reason he wasn't wearing his seat belt before I get the calls was the fact
13:38 that police are exempt from wearing their seat belt so
13:41 that they can disembark during an emergency.
13:43 Well, this is on patrol.
13:44 I'm Robert Dumas.
13:45 I'm joined by my co-host, Commissioner of Police Gary Griffith, and
13:49 to my right, the head of the Firearms Division, Sergeant David Swanson.
13:54 We're talking about firearm users license and
13:57 of course illegal firearms entering this country.
14:00 Commissioner, once again, thank you for being on set and taking the time.
14:04 >> It was my pleasure.
14:05 >> From the outset, I would just like to ask,
14:07 what would you say one of the major differences between yourself and
14:10 the former commissioner, Stephen Williams,
14:13 as it pertains to obtaining your firearm user license?
14:16 >> [LAUGH] Well, there's no good and bad.
14:18 Every single commissioner of police will have their different style.
14:21 So it is not about trying to, for
14:23 me to state that what I am doing is the appropriate thing.
14:26 The fact of the matter, it should not be based on the view of a commissioner of
14:30 police to decide if it is you need to give as many firearms as possible or not give.
14:35 So some police officers, some commissioners worldwide, they will say,
14:38 listen, I do not think persons should have firearms,
14:40 because the more firearms out in the streets, it may be more dangerous.
14:43 They will have other police officers, possibly more so in the United States and
14:46 so forth, will say, listen, it is your right to bear arms.
14:49 It is totally irrelevant on the view of the commissioner of police.
14:52 So whether it is I feel that persons have a right to or they should not,
14:56 it is irrelevant.
14:57 The fact of the matter, there's a law, and
14:59 the law mandates that persons have a right to apply for firearms.
15:02 And if they adhere to all of the policies and the requirements,
15:05 then they should still be given.
15:07 Within my tour of duty so far, I think it's almost ten times more
15:12 than would have been given for the last 20 years.
15:16 It is not a matter of right or wrong.
15:17 If persons feel that too many firearms are being given,
15:19 well then you need to change the law.
15:20 It is not for me to decide.
15:22 There are laws, and it is the right of persons to apply.
15:25 And if they apply and they have what is required, they would be given.
15:29 And as you said, right or wrong, curiosity did kill the cat.
15:31 So therefore, I mean,
15:32 people are seeing these weapons of mass destruction on the set.
15:35 They are live, for lack of a better term, they're not replicas.
15:41 And in this case, can we just quickly go through the different
15:46 weapons that we have on set, and more importantly,
15:50 how are these weapons entering this country?
15:53 It's not like you can go into Walmart and say, hey, let me get a IM-16 or
15:57 AR-15 or a MAC-10 and take it off the shelf.
16:00 I mean, these are things that you can't even get a license for.
16:03 >> Yeah, well, we have about over 5,000 illegal firearms have been seized over
16:07 the last few years.
16:08 It's roughly about 800 firearms seized every single year by
16:13 the Toronto and Tobago Police Service.
16:15 Again, it could be based on weapons entering the country through illegal
16:19 ports of entry or through legitimate ports of entry.
16:21 Unfortunately, with the police service, we do not have access to either, per se.
16:25 We work heavily with the Toronto and Tobago Defense Force to try to assist in
16:30 trying to prevent illegal firearms entering through illegal ports of entry.
16:33 The legitimate ports of entry,
16:34 we do not have access to deal with what is happening out there.
16:37 What we do is what we do, our control internally.
16:40 So as I stated, over 5,000 firearms in the last six or seven years.
16:45 So we look at almost 800 firearms every year, and that says a lot.
16:49 I could ask Sergeant Swanson to go into details pertaining to the M16, the ARs.
16:54 >> Yeah, so what we have on set here, we have two AR-15s.
16:58 We have an M16, and from what I understand, the M16 is US Army grade.
17:04 >> All illegal, capitalized for- >> All illegal,
17:07 because the only legal firearms persons are allowed to have in
17:12 Toronto and Tobago are up to semi-automatic functionality, pistols, that is.
17:19 And they could go from a caliber ranging of 0.22 up to 45 caliber, right?
17:26 These are 5.56 and 7.62.
17:30 This is a Kel-Tec bullpup 308 rifle.
17:34 >> Can you hold it up?
17:35 >> Right, well, with firearms safety, we must have muzzle consciousness, right?
17:40 So we're looking at here- >> Away from the target.
17:42 >> What we're looking at here is a 7.62 rifle.
17:48 For those who know about weapon calibers, this weapon has the capacity,
17:54 if ten persons stand up one behind the other,
17:59 the round coming out of this weapon could go through all ten persons.
18:04 >> We have some video that we'll show shortly with regard to the fact the power.
18:07 >> So this is the type of firepower, the criminal element,
18:11 is walking around within Toronto and Tobago against innocent citizens.
18:16 And may I add, and again, sometimes you have a 5.56.
18:20 So then when it is we ask the public, and I'm in this battle for
18:24 the last few months, when someone is held with nine of these,
18:29 nine of these, and each one can have about two magazines.
18:32 So you're speaking at times almost 70 rounds, 70 by nine.
18:35 You're speaking about a weapon that can kill,
18:37 you have somebodies in a car with weapons that can kill 500 people.
18:41 In some countries, you have a weapon like this, you're deemed a terrorist,
18:45 because you can kill about 50 persons with it.
18:47 And then we have persons in the criminal justice system that have the audacity
18:51 to say that the man has a right to get bail, because it is his right.
18:54 What about the rights of the law abiding citizens when one person could be held
18:57 with a weapon, and then it gets even more ridiculous because then you have persons
19:01 who are supposed to be trained in criminal justice,
19:03 say well, if the weapon is broken into compartments.
19:05 So here what, if somebody is found with a detonator, a timer, and chemicals,
19:11 it's all spread apart, you're going to say well, it's not really a bomb,
19:15 so he's not a terrorist.
19:16 No, it is a terrorist act.
19:18 We need to start fighting for the rights of law abiding citizens rather than fight
19:21 the rights of criminal elements who have this, and the reason they have this is to kill.
19:26 Well, Commissioner, I want to go into the bail amendment act as you brought it up shortly,
19:30 but I just want to get the comparison between an illegal firearm and a legal firearm,
19:34 just to show our viewers there the difference in firepower.
19:39 Now, before I do that, I want to echo a sentiment that the Commissioner just raised there.
19:43 I remember back as a homicide detective, I was talking to a suspect once,
19:47 and he said he would rather the police hold him with his firearm than his enemies
19:51 catch him without it.
19:52 And the reason he said that, he said because when all the hold me, I'll get a fine,
19:56 I'll back out.
19:57 That was his thinking, you know, so I'd rather walk around, if the police hold me,
20:01 that's no problem.
20:03 They'd rather have it than the enemies catch them without it.
20:05 So you see the mindset of these young fellas, that they feel as though there's no consequence
20:11 of having the firearm on them.
20:12 Which goes to the bail amendment.
20:13 That's what we were discussing, yeah.
20:15 So this is a basic, usual, common pistol that I have.
20:21 I'm sure everyone wants to see.
20:22 So the weapon is clear.
20:24 So this is what would usually be owned by a licensed firearm holder.
20:29 This is a .9mm Smith & Wesson pistol.
20:34 Okay?
20:35 So this is what most police officers have when they go out on patrol.
20:40 And then you'll end up in Compton.
20:42 So how does that protect you from an M16 or a Kel-Tec or an AR-15?
20:49 The grace of God.
20:51 Well, there's also tactics.
20:53 And training, yeah.
20:54 Police officers last year, for example, over 70 incidents were put on shot at police officers.
20:59 You're speaking about over more than one per week, every week,
21:02 there was more than one incident where a person shot at police officers.
21:05 And you know the situation where the 500 odd murders last year, no one sees anything.
21:10 But as soon as police officers shoot in defense,
21:13 we have police officers with a bullet hole in their bulletproof vest.
21:17 We have it through the vehicles of the police, of the cars.
21:20 And then people with audacity, because you know everyone has bionic eyes,
21:23 they will say that, "No, the person did not shoot at the police."
21:25 Over 70 incidents.
21:27 And then when you have the individuals now with weapons like this,
21:30 in comparison to police officers who may have a sidearm,
21:32 because of the training of the police officers, my officers are well trained.
21:36 And I started again, went back to my line where a person's had a problem with it.
21:40 One shot, one kill.
21:41 The fact really matters, as you would have seen what Mr. Meister said.
21:44 You do police officers are not trained to find, "Why didn't you shoot him in the leg?"
21:47 It doesn't work that way. Not on my watch.
21:49 You get a chest and head shot, someone tries to shoot at my police officers,
21:53 their objective is to neutralize the enemy.
21:56 Well, I actually want to talk to you about that.
21:58 We're going to take a short break because I want to actually bring up that thing
22:01 about police shooting in the leg or shooting in the arm,
22:04 based on competency, how much training they're getting to ensure that they,
22:08 you know, they are hitting the target in the right place.
22:10 But we take a short break.
22:11 When we come back, the Commissioner and Sergeant David Swanson
22:14 will be talking more about the application for the FUL, illegal firearms,
22:18 and more importantly at this particular stage, the Bail Amendment Act.
22:21 We take a short break. Stay with us.
22:22 [Pause]
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24:57 Well, this is On Patrol.
24:58 I'm Robert Dumas.
24:59 I'm joined by Commissioner of Police Gary Griffith and Sergeant David Swanson,
25:02 head of the Firearms Division.
25:04 Before we went to the break, of course, we were talking about the application
25:07 for an FUL and illegal firearms and we were going into the Bail Amendment Act.
25:11 We just saw a video quickly there of the firepower out there
25:15 with persons who own an AR-15.
25:19 Commissioner, I'd like to get back into that because, again,
25:21 we just saw that firepower and as we were speaking,
25:24 with the Bail Amendment Act that was passed,
25:26 120 days a person potentially can now be back on the streets
25:30 to, even if it's a first-time offender, back on the streets with an AR-15 or an M16.
25:35 It hasn't been confirmed as yet. They're still working on it.
25:37 And this is where I find it is amazing.
25:39 Where five years ago, depending on what side of the parliamentary bench you sit,
25:43 to the Speaker of the House, you will agree to something
25:45 and then after when you change, you disagree with it.
25:48 It worked in 2014. The reason I can tell you that is I was in another place.
25:51 I was not in tactics or in camouflage. I was in a suit.
25:55 And it worked because the deterrent was there.
25:57 But when you have a situation now that criminal elements are aware,
26:01 "Listen, I can even carry this and I can get bail the following day,"
26:05 and then you have persons who will be in law association and persons of substance,
26:10 they say, "Listen, no, it is the right of these cold-blooded murderers to have to get bail."
26:14 It puts us in a very difficult position.
26:16 The police service, we can do all. We can do the investigation.
26:19 We can do the monitoring. We can do the arrest. We can do the charge.
26:22 But then for criminal element, if he understands that,
26:25 "Listen, I know that the deterrent is not there. I will be back on the following day."
26:28 The protocol of opportunity is now there.
26:30 So it is not just about the bail amendment.
26:32 We need to have a situation where now if someone has a bank check for $600,
26:37 they can be fined $6,000.
26:39 If someone is found with a firearm that can kill 15 persons,
26:43 he's now pleading guilty and is fined $5,000,
26:46 where he can now go back out onto the street, purchase another firearm
26:50 to probably kill the persons who sold him out.
26:53 The police can't deal with that.
26:54 As I said, we have held over 4,000 persons for illegal firearms in the last few years.
26:59 Which means we're speaking about almost every day we hold 2 or 3 persons with a firearm.
27:04 They've all been released in Australia and France, 15, 17 years in prison.
27:08 Here, 2 days, you're back out on the streets.
27:11 We want to deal with security in the country.
27:13 Those persons need to stay where they belong, in jail.
27:15 And you mentioned monitoring. I want to ask you a question in a bit.
27:19 We're going to take some calls now to the Commission and of course Sergeant Swanson here as well
27:24 with regard to the application of FUL or illegal firearms.
27:28 In our talk to TNT segment.
27:30 All right, so the numbers will be up on the screen shortly.
27:47 Please give us a call if you'd like to ask the Commissioner or Sergeant Swanson a question
27:51 as it pertains to the application for an FUL or illegal firearms in this country.
27:56 Commissioner, you mentioned just now with regard to the Bail Amendment Act and FUL.
28:02 And we were speaking about monitoring.
28:06 Is it a movie thing when you see cars being x-rayed and you can actually see or heat signatures
28:13 and you can see whether someone has illegal firearms in their car?
28:16 Right, so next question.
28:18 The question answered, Sarge.
28:21 So let me get to the discussion of competency.
28:26 One of the things that you guys are going to introduce as you go to renew your FUL is the competency.
28:33 Because it's one thing you go through a competency check as we've seen with Superintendent Meister
28:39 and then after that there's no check done.
28:42 That's something that you guys are going to introduce from now.
28:46 Yes, Sergeant Swanson will be able to put in detail.
28:51 But what I picked up is that many persons who want a firearm, I need a gun, I need a gun, you get it.
28:56 You keep it in your safe or you walk around with it for years and you have never gone on a range.
29:00 That can cause a negligent discharge.
29:02 That can cause a stoppage.
29:03 That can cause you to have ineffective fire and inaccurate fire that can actually be harmful to someone else.
29:09 So you need to ensure that this becomes part of you.
29:12 Not this.
29:13 Not this.
29:16 That becomes part of you that you understand how to use it, there are marksmanship principles.
29:19 You have to know how to use it, when to use it, how to be able to put yourself from covering fire, view from fire.
29:25 And with that I am making it mandatory that listen, you want a firearm?
29:28 Well then you must go on a range at a specific period and that is where the card comes in.
29:32 And the TTPS as well?
29:33 Definitely with the police officers, persons with FUECs.
29:36 All of these persons must understand the enormous responsibility you are accepting.
29:40 This is not just a case of saying I want a firearm.
29:42 You must understand.
29:43 And with the card now, you have to swipe so we will know that apart from paying the annual fee,
29:49 that you have now gone to a bona fide range where you have adhered to the minimum requirements
29:54 for us to know that you are doing what is required.
29:56 We have a caller from Mount Lambert.
29:58 Good evening caller.
29:59 Hi President, good afternoon to the panel.
30:01 I am Commissioner Griffith.
30:02 I would like to commend you on a job well done thus far.
30:06 I just want to add a quick suggestion.
30:08 Is it possible that you can also look into FUECs as well?
30:13 What happened, I have a permit inside for FUECs for about 4 or 5 years.
30:18 Whilst I understand that it is going to take some time to of course be processed,
30:23 if this can also be looked into.
30:25 Thank you very much.
30:27 Sure.
30:28 Well, we have been processing FUEC applications.
30:32 We have two types.
30:33 Can you break it down the FUEC?
30:34 Firearm users' employee certificate.
30:37 So that is in the case where a security firm may be applying for personnel
30:42 to have firearms and users' license under the FUL of the company.
30:48 We have businesses that also have company FULs and they may ask for persons
30:54 under their care to also use firearms to secure their premises.
30:58 We have individual citizens who would require that their spouse use their firearm
31:06 because it is illegal, let's say, if you have a firearm and you leave the firearm
31:11 in the vehicle and you go in a place you don't want to work with the firearm
31:15 and you leave it with your wife.
31:16 That's an illegal act.
31:18 If you have an FUEC for her, she is now authorized under law to also use that firearm.
31:24 We have, I mean, as commissioners we don't want to be talking about the past,
31:29 but there is a backlog of those applications as well that we are trying to clear.
31:33 Almost 40,000 you had mentioned.
31:34 No, that's FUL. FUEC, that's a whole other ballgame there.
31:38 I hope that answered your question, caller.
31:41 We now have another caller from Arima. Good evening.
31:44 Hello, good afternoon.
31:46 Good afternoon. Good evening.
31:48 I don't know if you'll hear me properly.
31:54 We're hearing.
31:55 Okay. I'm 45 years of age. I had applied twice before for FUL for the purpose of hunting.
32:06 Is it the same way as applying for a firearm for safety reasons, or is it a different applicant?
32:17 Well, applications for the purpose of hunting, just as with personal protection,
32:22 you have to provide justification.
32:25 With hunting, it's the same thing.
32:27 You have to be a member of a hunting club, right, and so for a number of years.
32:33 And, you know, again, you have to go through the competency of learning to use a shotgun,
32:38 and you have the provisional period of two months subsequent to that.
32:42 The commissioner will then decide if you are granted FUL.
32:48 And we have a caller from not too far from Arima.
32:50 Good evening.
32:52 Good night. Good night. Good night.
32:54 Good night to the panel, and good night to the commissioner.
32:57 I just want to ask the commissioner this.
33:00 So you got the formula to stop the firearm in Trinidad.
33:08 You got the formula to stop the killing, and I can't see why, for the time you did it,
33:18 why it can't stop, and I will tell you what is the formula you got.
33:23 It's the same thing you keep on repeating day after day.
33:27 When you get a man with a firearm and ammunition today, tomorrow you're out.
33:31 This is the problem, sir, and let me tell you something.
33:35 I think the fine at any time you get anybody a firearm, a licensed firearm,
33:40 because plenty of experience also, with a unlicensed firearm with ammunition,
33:46 you will be charged with a crime.
33:48 And you will be charged with a crime.
33:50 And you will be charged with a crime.
33:52 And you will be charged with a crime.
33:54 And you will be charged with a crime.
33:56 And you will be charged with a crime.
33:58 And you will be charged with a crime.
34:00 And you will be charged with a crime.
34:02 And you will be charged with a crime.
34:04 And you will be charged with a crime.
34:06 And you will be charged with a crime.
34:08 And you will be charged with a crime.
34:10 And you will be charged with a crime.
34:12 We have checked, and it's just about 800 shooters that we have,
34:16 based on our intelligence, 800 shooters,
34:18 persons who go with firearms, walk around with illegal firearms,
34:21 to shoot others through gangs and so forth.
34:23 It means that arguably we have held all of the shooters
34:26 two and three times over, and they laugh, go back out.
34:30 So, you can't blame us.
34:32 We have done our job.
34:33 What we need is the criminal justice system to get the act together
34:36 and stop putting the benefit towards the well-being of the criminal elements
34:40 and start looking after the well-being of the law-abiding citizens.
34:43 We have a caller from Mount Hoop. Good evening.
34:45 Yes, good night.
34:47 Good evening.
34:48 Hello.
34:49 How are you?
34:50 Yes, how are you doing?
34:51 Just a quick question to the Commissioner.
34:53 What happened is that a provisional license, my provisional license,
34:56 went to the Rome Police Station, and it left and it went back down to the firearm section.
35:02 Would that process take very long?
35:05 Because it's probably going on two months now that it hasn't come back up as yet.
35:10 Would that process take long,
35:12 seeing that it just went to the Rome Police Station just to make the adjustment?
35:17 Commissioner, before you answer that, or Sergeant Swanson,
35:20 can we just take that up as an opportunity to speak to the length of time,
35:25 from start to finish, the process actually takes, and thereby answer the question.
35:30 Well, the provisional permit is valid for a period of two months.
35:38 That is an anomaly, and what will have to happen is that the station has to send it back
35:44 so that we will then reissue the provisional permit to the person
35:48 so that they can go and get their competency.
35:50 So from application to provisional permit.
35:52 Right, so from application to provisional permit.
35:57 When you apply for your firearm user's license, okay, you have your Form 1,
36:02 which you get at the government print and a Form 16.
36:05 The Form 16 is the application for the provisional permit,
36:09 and the Form 1 is the application for the firearm user's license.
36:14 That is accompanied with two passport-sized photographs and your certificate of character.
36:19 You need to, if you are a husband, you need to get the approval from your wife.
36:24 Yes.
36:25 Interesting. If your wife applies, you don't need to get the approval from your husband.
36:30 Exactly. It sounds a bit biased, but we won't--
36:35 We have another call on the line. Good evening.
36:40 Good evening.
36:46 In the meantime--
36:47 Hello.
36:48 Hi, good evening.
36:49 Yes, good evening.
36:52 There are two questions I would like to find out.
36:56 I don't know if you know what is traffic skid.
37:01 Does anybody know?
37:03 What is traffic skid?
37:06 Traffic skid is an Olympic sport.
37:09 But somewhere along the line, we older folks are dying out,
37:16 and the younger folks cannot practice.
37:20 Therefore, you will have to have--you can't get a firearm license unless you are over the age of 25.
37:26 That's the first step.
37:28 Secondly, we are looking forward to having younger folks take over the position of our older folks.
37:39 And most importantly of all, who is the teacher?
37:48 So, we got cut off there.
37:52 There must be an association.
37:55 There is a Trap and Skid Association in Trinidad and Tobago.
37:59 I had a meeting with them the other day, and they are trying to revive this sport.
38:03 I'm not sure if you ever look at those old English movies where they say pull, and you see--
38:09 The double barrel shotgun.
38:10 Right. So there's a specific type of shotgun for that.
38:13 You don't use the normal pump-action shotguns.
38:16 And I wouldn't say it's a dying sport, because I could say that there are a lot of people trying to revive it.
38:22 I personally like it rather than hunting.
38:25 But again, it's viewed as a sport the older men would engage in.
38:32 But it's coming back.
38:34 A gentleman's sipping tea sort of sport.
38:36 Yes. No, it actually does what they do.
38:38 You go and you do the Trap and Skid, and you have tea afterwards.
38:42 We have a caller from Separia. Good evening.
38:45 Hello?
38:47 Hi, good evening.
38:48 Hi, good evening.
38:50 Good evening.
38:52 What is your question?
38:53 I'm calling--
38:56 Hi.
38:57 Hi, good evening.
38:58 Hi, good evening. What's your question?
38:59 I have a quick question.
39:00 My situation is I applied for an FPL in 2011.
39:07 2011, and I have not received any reply.
39:13 That's it?
39:15 All right. Yeah.
39:16 Well, again, for 2011, there are many things that you would have put in that application that obviously I would strongly recommend that sometimes you may need to either upgrade it or reapply,
39:28 because in a situation where you may change address, you may change marital status, you may change place of employment, the psychometric testing will be outdated.
39:37 Outdated.
39:38 The certificate of character may have changed.
39:40 So there are many things that can be altered within that period.
39:44 What is it? I think three months or three years, sorry, or three or four years.
39:48 So from 2016, 2017, with anything going back there, it makes it very difficult for us to try to pull in an application form where there have been so many different changes that may have taken place in your life at that time.
40:01 We have to go to a break, but, Commissioner, just very quickly, with regards to something you mentioned there, with regards to psychometric evaluation,
40:07 just like with the competency check, how you're making sure that persons have to do that once a year, is the psychometric evaluation something that's also going to be considered with regards to that?
40:14 Yeah, definitely.
40:15 People would apply for FUL, FUCs, and for 20, 25 years, there's nothing.
40:21 So you don't know what would have happened to that individual since then.
40:23 So there's a lot we are doing even with technology.
40:25 We are technology now, through the Operation Command Center, we have readout of certain individuals.
40:32 If we have a 999 call, we are going to that home.
40:35 We know that individual has a firearm.
40:37 We know that there have been three reports of domestic violence.
40:40 So all of the type of technology will assist us greatly, and likewise, we have computerized the FUL department.
40:48 We have now moved from the police admin building, so we are able to pinpoint certain things, and it will assist us greatly to know who should be given a firearm and who has not adhered to their responsibility.
40:59 And there is an appeals process as well.
41:01 Yes, the Firearms Appeal Board is enforced.
41:04 So persons who are not satisfied with the decision of the commissioner, that's under the law.
41:11 They can go to the board.
41:12 But the thing about it is that I have sat before the board before, and the board understands the commissioner's position, right?
41:21 Where he is now trying to address issues, because what we have had in the past is people getting no response, right?
41:28 Commissioner is now responding, and in many cases, in the affirmative for persons.
41:33 So the board really has no issue with the commissioner of police.
41:36 All right, we take a short break.
41:38 When we come back, we'll have final thoughts from both the commissioner of police, Sergeant Swanson, and myself.
41:43 This is "On Patrol." Please stay with us.
41:45 [Siren wailing]
41:52 [Music]
42:08 Oh, Lord!
42:09 Anand's low-priced supermarket.
42:11 Come visit a frequently clean and sanitized environment, fully stocked with the lowest prices.
42:18 Come spend $1,000 or more and get a free 10-pound bag of potatoes.
42:23 [Siren wailing]
42:31 This is "On Patrol." I'm Robert Dumas.
42:33 Commissioner, your message to the nation?
42:35 Twofold. Dealing with the persons who have the authority to change the criminal justice system.
42:40 We have a situation now where the criminal elements, it's better for them than for the law-abiding citizens.
42:46 We can't reach a situation where three and four times we will keep arresting the same individual for having possession of an illegal firearm,
42:53 and they get back out onto the streets to kill, and then you blame the police officers.
42:56 We need to ensure that the rights of the law-abiding citizen can now take precedence over the rights of criminal elements.
43:02 And as it pertains to persons, it is your right to bear arms. It is there in the Constitution.
43:07 However, we would provide it for you, but we have a situation where there are over 40,000 applicants.
43:13 And if it is you do get it, please understand you have now accepted a great responsibility.
43:18 Please adhere to it.
43:21 Well, that's our show. Thanks to everyone who called in.
43:24 We hope we've opened your eyes and demystified some of the aspects of gun ownership.
43:28 As we said at the start of the episode, it will change your life.
43:32 And speaking of changing lives, please remember wherever possible, we're still required to stay home to stay safe.
43:38 We can beat the COVID-19 pandemic together.
43:41 Thank you, Commissioner and Sergeant Swanson for being here.
43:43 I'm Robert Dumas. We'll see you next week on Patrol.
43:47 [Music]