The Reporters | Khawar Ghumman & Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain | ARY News | 29th August 2023
#ChairmanPTi #ShehbazSharif #SupremeCourt #IslamabadHighCourt
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Khawar Ghumman - Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain
Guests:
- Hassan Ayub Khan (Analyst)
- Azam Nazeer Tarar (Former Minister for Law)
"PTI Chief Ko Jo Relief Mil Raha Hai Wo...," Azam Nazeer on suspension of PTI Chief's sentence
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Khawar Ghumman - Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain
Guests:
- Hassan Ayub Khan (Analyst)
- Azam Nazeer Tarar (Former Minister for Law)
"PTI Chief Ko Jo Relief Mil Raha Hai Wo...," Azam Nazeer on suspension of PTI Chief's sentence
Transcript
00:00 Assalamu Alaikum, welcome to Khawar Gumman, I am your host Hassan Ayub and I am your host Chaudhary Ghulam Sain.
00:17 Today, the dollar has increased again, it has crossed 320 in the open market, the interbank has gone to 304, the stock exchange has fallen by 700-800 points, and the country's balance sheets are being protested against the electricity prices.
00:34 But today's top story, the decision of the Islamabad High Court has come, it was expected, it was being told across the board that it is a short sentence and it will be suspended.
00:45 Today, the decision of the Islamabad High Court, the two-member bench has come, a detailed judgment has also come.
00:51 And to talk about all this, we have invited the Central Prime Minister, Nazir Tariq Sahib, he is also a former minister of law.
00:59 We will ask him what is the whole matter. Mr. Tariq, thank you very much for giving time.
01:04 Okay, sir, my basic question to you is that across the board, your vulnerable community had to say that it is a short sentence, it will be suspended.
01:15 Let's go to the trial court, whoever was in it, whether they got time for defense or not, that is a separate legal argument.
01:23 First, comment on this judgment. Secondly, this is from your party, especially the president of your party, Mr. Shahbaz Sharif, who is present in London, his reaction was also quite extraordinary.
01:35 Comment on this.
01:37 Look, both parties are involved in the suspension of sentence, so naturally, this would have been decided 4 days, 6 days, 8 days ago.
01:49 If this case had not been turned around so much by the defense, if they had insisted on a simple ground, which they had asked for a death penalty in the application of suspension of sentence,
02:04 that this is a short sentence, and if they had agreed without entering into the merits of the case, then I think this matter would have been solved a week earlier.
02:13 But unfortunately, it was opened so much that it became more complicated to show some optics in it.
02:23 But the difference between appeal and suspension is that when you hear the request for a death penalty, its scope is very narrow.
02:36 And that is why the grounds of appeal are not in suspension of sentence.
02:42 A very common phrase is used to explain this, that the courts say that at suspension of sentence, we can't put the cart before the horse.
02:56 This was a technical situation. I think they made a reasonable decision.
03:01 In this regard, they did not touch the court. In the case of short sentence, the main emphasis is on the court.
03:12 I have read this order in detail, no friend has told me that a 8-page order has been received and its correctness has been given.
03:17 Yes, the trial court order has been suspended.
03:20 Yes, yes.
03:22 My next question was that from your party and from the president of your party, the reaction has come very extraordinary from London.
03:30 You must have read the tweet.
03:32 Look, he is not the Prime Minister at the moment. He has done a very restrained exercise as the Prime Minister.
03:38 And it is obvious that he has done distance and courage from the statements of the opposition.
03:45 Now he has given a statement as the head of the party.
03:49 Secondly, you should also look at the nature of a person.
03:52 The extent to which the attitude of the courts remained with him when he was arrested twice.
03:59 Then his niece was arrested twice.
04:03 His wife, housewife, had nothing to do with anything.
04:08 Her warrant came out. Her property was confiscated.
04:12 The houses were besieged. All this happened.
04:16 We used to get a date of 2-3 weeks. I was his lawyer.
04:22 I used to say repeatedly that he is almost 70 years old.
04:26 He is a cancer survivor.
04:29 His doctors had said that he had genuine issues of the back.
04:34 He used to take therapy three times a day.
04:38 But we did not get the date of 2-3 weeks.
04:42 And it took us 4 months to get the warrant.
04:46 We should give a little credit to a person who has a lava inside him.
04:52 If it comes out, it is a human nature. I think we should not do much on this.
04:57 What Azam Nazeer Tariq Hassan said, tell us what was his reaction?
05:02 Former Prime Minister and your President, Mr. Shibaz Sharif.
05:07 The reason was that the impugn order was of 3 August.
05:12 The trial court had remanded the order.
05:19 And the trial court had given a judgement on 5 August.
05:22 The judgement was not of 5 August.
05:25 The Supreme Court of Pakistan interfered in that.
05:28 The Supreme Court of Pakistan was the head of the three-division branch.
05:33 Was there a reaction from Mr. Nawaz Sharif?
05:37 And is it the same continuation of the reaction of Mr. Shibaz Sharif?
05:42 As I said, I have told you the background.
05:47 You have gone through a lot.
05:51 And when it comes to someone else, the standards are different.
05:58 And you cross the limits.
06:00 It has been 30 years since I have been in this field.
06:04 My ancestors are sitting with you today.
06:06 Mr. Ghulam Sain has left the court reporting for a long time.
06:11 But Mr. Shai has spent a lot of time in the court.
06:15 These fructuous matters are never raised by the courts.
06:19 And I say that the yardstick should be one.
06:22 Mr. Riddhi should be given a yardstick for Mr. Imran Khan, Mr. Shibaz Sharif, Mr. Akbar, Mr. Anwar Ahmed.
06:31 Because the law requires that everyone should be given a yardstick.
06:35 So, the prayer of an infructuous matter was that
06:39 the defence request was pending trial.
06:48 He took it to Islamabad High Court.
06:52 When he remanded, the court took it up again.
06:55 And the Supreme Court came.
06:57 You cannot do that.
07:00 If you start giving directions on fructuous matters,
07:04 and list the dates of each day,
07:06 and expect that in the next minute,
07:08 this information will come that it has been given.
07:12 So, indirectly,
07:14 there is independence in the judiciary,
07:16 especially in the constitution of the High Court.
07:18 The High Court has been given complete independence.
07:20 There is no chain of command.
07:22 The Supreme Court is not the legitimate High Court.
07:24 Yes, this is the decision of the High Court.
07:28 Mr. Ghulam Sain will ask you a question.
07:31 The issue is that the same Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court,
07:34 was attacked by the PTI a few days ago.
07:37 Today, we are seeing that the reaction came from Pakistan Muslim League Noon.
07:41 So, if our political parties learn a lesson,
07:43 then they should move forward.
07:44 It will be better.
07:45 Mr. Ghulam Sain wants to ask you a question.
07:47 Azam-ul-Aziz, Mr. Talha, thank you for your kind presence here.
07:52 The thing is that,
07:54 this 16-month, 10-May protest,
07:58 you think that you have saved the country, the state,
08:01 and carried out the work,
08:03 and saved the economy from defaults.
08:05 And I don't know how many hundreds of bills you have passed,
08:09 and how many universities.
08:11 You think of them as a cause.
08:14 People think of them as a cartoon,
08:16 and spread their wings and give bad wishes.
08:18 So, where will people go and what information will they get?
08:21 Mr. Chaudhary, first of all, let me clarify a little.
08:25 Firstly, hundreds of laws were not passed.
08:29 There were a total of 13 laws,
08:32 about which you are saying that there were hundreds of laws.
08:36 There were 13 laws, which were pending for the past few months.
08:41 And because the SMP period was being completed,
08:44 every department has its own anxiety,
08:47 that our matter has reached the end of a month.
08:51 Secondly, you said that the universities are not the government's policy.
08:56 Neither were they.
08:58 That is why the government stopped them.
09:00 And the Minister of Education in the Senate objected to those bills.
09:04 And a few of those bills were passed.
09:07 That too, the Prime Minister's office stopped them.
09:10 And did not send them for the Senate.
09:12 Because the HSE and their requirements were not complete.
09:17 And that too, in total, took 7 days for the universities to pass.
09:21 So, you are, MashaAllah, we learn from you.
09:25 You are elder, you have facts and figures.
09:28 I have thought about what I have said to you in your program.
09:34 That the actual situation was this,
09:37 the last month, or the last 20 days.
09:40 I think that the Parliament's fundamental responsibility
09:44 is not to install gas meters or fix the power lines.
09:48 Their fundamental work is legislation.
09:51 And the Parliament should fulfill this obligation.
09:55 And this is what the Constitution mandates them to do.
09:59 As far as the economy is concerned, I am not an economist.
10:02 But, in this period, what I have seen,
10:06 the agreements that were made in 2020-21,
10:12 the dictation of the previous government and the IMF,
10:16 the way it was accepted with love,
10:19 and the way it was legislated,
10:23 and no one was heard,
10:26 and I still remember it with a bulldoze,
10:29 that the State Bank of Pakistan bill,
10:32 was passed with a majority of one vote.
10:35 And the desire to hand it over to the committee was not expressed.
10:40 You may remember, this was the same bill,
10:43 in which, due to fog, due to smoke,
10:46 due to the closure of the motorway,
10:48 Yusuf Razak-e-Ladhi Sahib had arrived late.
10:50 He was told to send him only for one day.
10:53 And our then leader of the opposition would also come,
10:57 and he would also speak.
10:59 But at that time, voting was done on it.
11:01 And this flight of the dollar,
11:04 this free fall,
11:06 was handed over to the State Bank through that bill,
11:09 that the State Bank will not listen to even one government,
11:12 and the State Bank will not exercise its own power.
11:15 Similarly, the legislation of NEPRA on electricity tariffs,
11:19 was passed. I am a witness.
11:21 We have made a lot of promises that the poor will be crushed,
11:24 will be destroyed.
11:26 The government should intervene in this somehow.
11:29 But at that time, they needed the IMS tickets immediately,
11:34 and they made that law,
11:37 and obtained the IMS agreement.
11:40 But when it came to distrust,
11:42 they made all the conditions law,
11:45 but violated their conditions practically.
11:48 Because of which this disaster is happening.
11:50 Sir, we have been forced to take a begging bowl,
11:53 and roam around the world,
11:55 so we have to obey the conditions.
11:57 The previous people have also agreed,
11:59 and you have also agreed, this is in front of everyone.
12:01 Sir, today when the Pakistan People's Party
12:03 went to the Chief Election Commissioner,
12:05 they said that we have been defeated.
12:08 We had talked about 90 days, even in the CCI.
12:11 And today we have also told the Chief Election Commissioner,
12:14 that you cannot go beyond 90 days.
12:16 Now all the Jamaats, it seems that the Islamic Jamaat
12:18 has also gone to the Supreme Court.
12:20 They are going on one side, on the issue of 90 days.
12:22 And the Pakistan Muslim League, Noon,
12:24 and probably the statement of the JUIF has also not come forward.
12:28 MKO is standing on one side.
12:30 So what? Who has this happened to?
12:32 The People's Party was not on board,
12:34 that it will take time, the matter will go beyond 90 days.
12:37 Please clarify this a little.
12:39 Because the whole issue is being put on the head of Noon League.
12:41 On the issue of 90 days, that the Ayan is being opposed.
12:44 and Noon League is behind it.