Singer Zara Larsson on the ‘power of wanting to do it for yourself’
Swedish pop sensation Zara Larsson joins us on Love Lives to discuss fame and how blogging from a young age in Sweden has helped her feel comfortable speaking her mind and taking ownership of her work in the relentless and unforgiving music industry. Zara speaks about how she collaborates in the studio, how she came to the public's attention at a young age and how one form of transport has stolen her heart.Catch Love Lives on Independent TV and YouTube, as well as all major social and podcast platforms.
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00:00 Before my singing career really took off, I was just having a blog like every other girl did.
00:06 At least in Sweden, everybody had a blog.
00:08 Really?
00:09 Like everybody.
00:10 What kind of things did you put on the blog?
00:11 It was like the OG Instagram.
00:12 It was just like, "Hey, like, chillin'."
00:18 And then you would write a little like, "I was at an interview podcast today. It was great."
00:22 Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:23 Yeah.
00:24 You know?
00:24 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25 Like a Facebook mom.
00:26 Yeah.
00:27 Huge long caption and a lot of pictures.
00:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30 Hello and welcome to Love Lives, a podcast from The Independent where I, Olivia Petter,
00:42 will be speaking to different guests about the different loves of their lives, the stories
00:46 behind them, and what that love has taught them about themselves and their place in the world.
00:51 Today, I am honored to be joined by the brilliant Zara Larsson.
00:56 She is one of the biggest pop stars working today.
00:58 She is known for her energizing pop anthems and record-breaking hits like "Never Forget
01:03 You" and "Lush Life."
01:04 She has been nominated for BRITs and MTV EMAs and has just released her latest single, "End
01:09 of Time."
01:11 She was recently described as entering her icon era by Vogue Scandinavia.
01:15 All this and she is just 25.
01:18 I cannot wait to talk to her all about her career so far, her music, and the different
01:21 loves of her life.
01:22 So, hello, Zara.
01:23 Hi.
01:24 Thank you so much for joining me.
01:26 It's honestly like rattling off all the things you've done.
01:28 It's crazy to think that...
01:29 It's a good intro.
01:30 Thank you.
01:31 Like I said in the intro, you kind of just released your latest single, "End of Time."
01:37 I know that the music video for this one was really special for you and it kind of took
01:41 you a while to write this song.
01:43 In the video, we kind of see you with this small blonde girl who looks like a younger
01:47 version of you in what looks like a somewhat unstable home life.
01:52 But I know that the song is about kind of visiting your younger self as an adult and
01:56 all of the things that you would kind of talk to them about.
02:00 Tell us why this song is so important to you and what your vision was for that special
02:05 video.
02:06 So, first of all, I want to start off by saying I unfortunately didn't write the song.
02:11 I worked with Rick Knowles a lot on this album and Casey Smith, who wrote the song.
02:18 So we have a few songs coming out together, but the one day that I wasn't in the studio,
02:23 they were just in there together, them two.
02:24 You know, when I got back, they were like, "We want to play you a song."
02:29 And it was "End of Time."
02:30 And I think the song in itself is just a very passionate love song, which is about loving
02:36 someone until the end of time.
02:40 Quite dramatic.
02:42 And because I wasn't, I still want to be a part of creating my story in a way.
02:51 So I don't always write my songs.
02:53 I try to.
02:54 I think it's really fun.
02:56 But everything is so visual these days as well.
03:00 So because I didn't write the song, I really wanted to write the story of the video and
03:07 the visual story.
03:10 And I just figured instead of having, you know, me and like a boy, and we would love
03:18 each other, I wanted to do something else and I wanted to have, I wanted to portray
03:26 one of the strongest loves in my life, which is the love for performing and singing and
03:33 dancing.
03:34 And I've just always felt that in me since I was, I mean, I can't even remember since
03:40 I was so young and just portraying me in my bedroom, kind of escaping everyday life, just
03:53 being in my own world in front of the mirror and imagining and visualizing being on stage
04:01 as I would grow older.
04:04 It would just be all, all of my days would consist of that.
04:08 So that's kind of the story of the video.
04:13 A younger version of me or just a younger girl having big dreams, kind of living the
04:19 life we wanted to portray, like kind of a family home, which isn't perfect because I
04:27 don't think any family is perfect, but I didn't want it to be too sad, but I wanted it to
04:32 feel relatable.
04:35 And, you know, just something that I felt growing up.
04:40 So it felt like a really nice story.
04:44 And I'm happy we went that way because performing is definitely one of my biggest loves in life.
04:51 And because of the message of the song and the video, like going back to your younger
04:56 self and kind of, or just, you know, anyone's younger self and telling, telling a young
05:00 child, you know, I don't know, giving them some sort of thing to cling on to when things
05:05 are difficult at home or wherever.
05:08 Do you have any idea what you would want to say to your younger self, maybe before you
05:12 kind of entered this industry?
05:14 Because I know you were so young.
05:16 Yeah.
05:17 But if you could go back now and kind of say something to that, like pre, you know, professional
05:22 musician you as a kid, what would you say?
05:24 Honestly, I don't know if I have anything to say.
05:26 I was so strong and confident as a kid.
05:31 I just knew exactly what I wanted to do.
05:34 Nobody could tell me otherwise.
05:36 And sometimes I feel, you know, my, my grandma, she passed away not too long ago and we were
05:44 looking at her stuff that she had in her house.
05:47 She's now cleaning out her apartment and she had these photo albums, but they were just
05:52 filled with cutouts from like interviews that I had done, which is so cute.
05:57 Because these days, like I wouldn't do that.
05:59 If I would save an interview, maybe you print screen.
06:01 Yeah.
06:02 You know, you print it on your phone, but she, you know, she's old school.
06:05 So she cut out every single interview or every single picture that she ever saw of me in
06:10 a magazine.
06:11 And it could be a good article or a bad article, but she would save everything.
06:16 And as I was, you know, flipping through those pages and just looking at myself and seeing
06:22 an interview from me being 14 or 15, you know, when I was just releasing my first original
06:28 song, I felt like I felt inspired by myself, by the younger version of me, because everything
06:37 was so clear.
06:38 It was just so obvious that I had this one thing that I wanted to do and I wasn't going
06:45 to let anybody tell me otherwise.
06:48 And sometimes now when I'm 25, I can feel myself more, not doubting, but you know, you
06:54 realize that life, life is hard and tricky and it's not black and white.
06:59 And when you're young, you have your whole life in front of you.
07:03 And I still got time.
07:04 I know that.
07:05 But it's different, like feeling, you know, I'm grown, like I have responsibilities.
07:09 I have, like, I got to take care of myself.
07:14 But I don't know if I have anything to say to my younger self more than go girl.
07:21 You know?
07:23 It's so sweet to hear you talk like that, because I think it's so rare that we get to
07:27 hear that insight into that total kind of blind optimism that we all kind of have as
07:31 kids.
07:32 It's like, you know, we're growing up and like, I want to be a pop star.
07:34 But like, you actually went and did it so, so young.
07:37 So I want to kind of go back a bit and ask you how you made it happen, how you got into
07:43 this industry.
07:44 I mentioned you started when you were like 10, because you won a talent contest in Sweden.
07:48 But tell us about that and how that kind of, you know, kickstarted everything else.
07:54 Yeah, I mean, actually, as we're speaking today, I just saw a tweet saying like, it
08:00 was 15 years ago that she won, you know, yeah, somebody tagged me on Twitter.
08:05 And I was like, that is insane.
08:07 Like 15 years ago, time flies.
08:10 So I kind of started my career, I guess you would say on that show, like Swedish Got Talent.
08:16 And I was so excited to just be an artist, you know, but as we all know, winning a competition
08:23 like that doesn't necessarily guarantee you anything.
08:25 Yeah, it's just a show really, just like good TV.
08:29 And then the next year, there's a new winner.
08:31 And then the year after that, there's a new winner.
08:32 So but I walked in and I was like, okay, boom, it's happening.
08:36 You know, and after that, I won, which was so exciting and so amazing.
08:42 I was ready to like get to work.
08:45 And nobody wanted to sign me.
08:47 I went to all the record labels and they were like, you're too young.
08:50 I even went to-
08:51 I mean, you were 11, right?
08:52 Yeah.
08:53 Which makes sense now.
08:54 I was stressing and I was so sad.
08:59 And I was like, my career is over.
09:01 I'm never gonna be anything.
09:04 I feel like I was more stressed back then than I am now.
09:08 Because I just wanted to like travel places, perform, be on stage.
09:13 That's where my true love's at, like be on stage, entertain people, see them have a good
09:17 time and all of that.
09:20 So it was very stressful for me.
09:23 But then at 14, I got signed.
09:29 I think, I don't know if the talent show actually helped me out per se, but I guess life is
09:34 a chain of events.
09:35 So me and my mom actually went and watched the Swedish Idol competition.
09:39 So we were in the crowd.
09:40 And then during the commercial breaks, you could go up to the judges and like get their
09:45 autographs.
09:46 So we did that.
09:47 And then my mom was like, do you recognize her?
09:49 Do you recognize this girl?
09:50 And I was like, shut up, mom.
09:53 And one of the judges, Laila Baguette, she was like, yeah, of course I know you.
09:58 I think you're amazing.
09:59 You're so talented.
10:01 And then my mom was like, can we get your email or something?
10:05 And she gave out her email.
10:07 So we emailed her and we didn't really think she was going to reply back, but she actually
10:10 did.
10:11 And she worked with me for a year.
10:13 She was actually the one who took me and saw records, because I didn't have any contacts
10:18 to, like my family isn't in music at all.
10:21 I didn't grow up like in a musical family or people with connections.
10:25 So it was basically my mom who was just being a little cheeky at this commercial break in
10:31 the live studio.
10:34 And we emailed her.
10:35 She got back to us and she introduced me to my label, Ten in Sweden, which was an independent
10:41 kind of small label.
10:43 And they took me on at 13.
10:46 Still very, you know, they were like, oh, you're very young, but we could work for you.
10:51 We could work with you.
10:52 And then at 15, I released my first song and it went so well.
10:57 And I think it was on cover, it was called, and it was just released in Sweden first.
11:02 And then it just kind of organically traveled down in Europe.
11:08 And I just remember posting the video for it on YouTube, which was kind of like a one
11:14 shot.
11:15 Camera was still.
11:16 I was just singing into the mic in the studio.
11:18 Like budget was zero.
11:21 And it just kind of took off.
11:23 And I think it was before YouTube had those algorithms and stuff.
11:27 So whatever was kind of trending was on this like start page, you know, and and then it
11:33 took off on the radio.
11:35 And I think I was just really, really lucky.
11:38 Like it was just happening.
11:40 The right thing was happening at the right time for me at that moment, because I could
11:45 have posted and just had like 43 views.
11:48 Yeah.
11:49 My family, my friends.
11:50 But something happened there.
11:52 And it was obviously like a beautiful song.
11:55 I didn't write that, but it was the first song that I heard that I was like, oh, yeah,
11:59 I'm putting this out.
12:00 And I also knew I'm very thankful for 10 working with them because they really listened to
12:08 me.
12:10 It had drums in the beginning.
12:11 It's a completely different song.
12:12 And I was like, let's take out the drums.
12:15 I just want this to be a ballad, which is kind of different from what I do today.
12:20 Like if you've heard my music, you probably wouldn't think of like, oh, the ballad girl.
12:25 But, you know, I started out really just take out the drums.
12:28 They were like, no, we can't do this.
12:31 No one's releasing songs without any any drums.
12:34 And I was just like, well, that's how I want it, you know.
12:38 So we just kind of did it.
12:39 And it went really well.
12:41 So I think luck combined with having people that I worked with that were listening to
12:50 me because at the end of the day as well, like if I did release it and it didn't do
12:54 well, I always say this, but if you do something you are happy about and proud of, you can't
13:01 really lose.
13:02 Yeah, I think anything with anything creativity based, I think you have to just ultimately
13:08 let the universe take control of the success of it and just think as long as I feel proud
13:12 of this, then like you said, then it's then it's a success.
13:15 If you release something that you don't like and then if it goes well, oh, I always knew
13:21 I love that song.
13:22 But if it doesn't, then it's like flop.
13:26 You know what I mean?
13:29 Then you feel terrible.
13:32 But I've been really I'm so happy that they were always like hearing me out, listening
13:38 to me because I've heard some nightmare stories about record labels just trying to really
13:44 shape a person into what they're not.
13:48 But even being so young and then through Ten, the label in Sweden, the record company, they
13:57 licensed the music to Sony worldwide.
14:02 So I got signed to Epic and I was thrown in rooms with like amazing writers, amazing stylists,
14:11 amazing choreographers, amazing.
14:12 Everyone was so professional.
14:13 And you're still a teenager.
14:14 Still a teenager.
14:15 Yeah, like 15, 16 at this point.
14:18 So maybe 17.
14:20 And it wasn't like they were again, like everything just became so much bigger at this point.
14:26 So it was this not this familiar like family style, you know, independent label.
14:32 It was like a big machine.
14:34 And I don't think they were trying to change me.
14:37 I think they were just genuinely trying to help me.
14:40 But when you are being put in like a room with, let's say, like five writers who all
14:46 have number ones, it just made me feel like, what can I say that will be better than anything
14:53 you say?
14:54 Like, I don't know, I became a little intimidated and it was just kind of hard for me to like.
15:03 It was harder for me to think, what do I like?
15:07 What do I like?
15:09 Because I trust you guys.
15:11 So if you say this is like amazing, then it probably like, you know what I mean?
15:16 Yeah, I do.
15:17 I think I think it's the antithesis of what this all starts out as.
15:21 Right.
15:22 I think with any creative exercise that you do, whether it's songwriting, novel writing,
15:28 you know, screenwriting, whatever, it starts off as a creative endeavor, something that
15:33 is true to you.
15:34 But then the further along you get and the more success you get, the more you're constantly
15:38 reminded that this is a business.
15:40 This is like a commercial enterprise.
15:42 And you will have all these people in big rooms kind of telling you, well, this is what's
15:46 going to make you money.
15:47 And this is.
15:48 And it's like, but that's not what I started to do this for.
15:51 So I think it's probably quite hard to reconcile those two things, particularly when you're
15:54 so young.
15:55 Totally.
15:56 And I do want success and I wanted success.
15:58 And I have always had huge respect for like authorities or just older people, especially
16:04 always being the youngest person in the room, which is no longer true in every scenario.
16:09 Because sometimes I walk in and I'm like, oh, I would love to write with this person.
16:13 I just think they're amazing.
16:14 And then I'm like, they're fucking 18.
16:16 Like, you know what I mean?
16:17 It's so mild.
16:18 But growing up was just always like the baby.
16:22 But yeah, it was just it.
16:24 But again, I think I had I was still I was still with 10 and they would always back me
16:30 up.
16:31 They would always be like, whatever you want to do.
16:33 And I think that was really, really important for me.
16:38 But because I didn't start off writing, my love is performing.
16:42 But then after a while, I just figured, like, of course, I want to be part of that process
16:46 too.
16:48 And now I've also gotten to the point where now I've done it for a few years and I've
16:52 just realized that I don't work well with 10 people in the room.
16:56 And I don't care how many hits you have.
16:59 I want to sit with somebody that I feel really comfortable with, comfortable that I could
17:03 share my like thoughts and ideas.
17:07 And you know, I don't want it to be more than two people.
17:13 It sounds like you had such a strong sense of yourself, which I think is so important
17:17 when you're kind of thrust into those environments as a young girl, as a teenage woman, as a
17:21 teenage girl in particular.
17:22 Did you I know you kind of said that you didn't really have anyone trying to kind of morph
17:27 you into a version of yourself that you weren't.
17:30 But were there ever any people you encountered because it's so common in the industry, or
17:34 at least it used to be for women to be kind of subjected to so much criticism and sort
17:40 of manipulation about like their appearance and what they wear and all that kind of stuff.
17:45 I think if I was not backed up by my Swedish record company, it would have been a completely
17:53 different story.
17:57 And again, I think these companies, they're not going out of their way to like purposely
18:02 be mean.
18:03 They just want to make money like they and then and that's like kind of maybe they sometimes
18:14 could be mean, but they're not doing it for the purpose of being mean.
18:18 You know what I mean?
18:19 But I think I definitely had to really put my foot down in certain situations and it's
18:29 certain things have been very uncomfortable, but then it has been very nice to like look
18:35 to my right or look to my left and see like you guys got me because if I didn't have that
18:42 and if my mom, like my mom was in the room with me all the time, like wherever I went
18:48 and she just not recently, but when I turned like 21 ish, she kind of backed off a little
18:58 bit, but I always have someone around me even in sessions unless I know the person very
19:05 well because I have been in enough situations where I'm like, I'm really not comfortable
19:11 right now and you're telling me things that I should do or shouldn't do or it's just straight
19:18 up very inappropriate or I think a lot of people who have power in the industry, they
19:25 know they do.
19:26 They know they have power and a lot of people abuse that and I think that's what kind of
19:30 turns them on not necessarily because they really want to sleep with you.
19:34 They just want to, they just want you to know that I have the power to make you uncomfortable
19:41 right now and that's what I'm going to do.
19:43 You know what I mean?
19:44 Do you still, I mean because when I talk to anyone in the public eye in any way who started
19:51 out very young as a woman, like whether they are an artist or a model or you know, it's
19:57 like the gears kind of change when you get very commercially successful and very kind
20:02 of, you know, very famous but when you're younger it's like people think that they can
20:07 still kind of exploit you and take advantage of you and you hear these stories in the music
20:12 industry all the time.
20:13 Does that still happen?
20:15 Did you notice a time when that kind of stopped happening and have you ever been like, you
20:20 know, you said you've experienced like people saying inappropriate things and making you
20:23 feel really uncomfortable.
20:24 Have you ever kind of gone to the next step of like reporting behavior or like complaining
20:29 in any kind of formal way?
20:31 No, but it's so fucked up that some of the things that have happened have been so obvious
20:39 and it has happened like in front of other people and...
20:43 What kind of thing?
20:44 Like inappropriate comments?
20:45 We could like be sitting at a dinner and there's all these people that I know and that everybody
20:52 knows and then it could be like, you know, somebody's putting a hand on my thigh or saying
20:59 like, like I'm gonna come to your hotel room and I'm gonna do like, well, getting like
21:05 way too close and personal, keep touching and it's like you all see this, like this
21:11 is happening right in front of you guys but no one says anything because it's not to the
21:16 point where if I wouldn't have gone to the police I said what?
21:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:21 It's not illegal, it's not criminal but those like minor things when you stack them on top
21:29 of each other and it like happens and it's just, it's just casual, you know, it's not
21:34 that deep.
21:35 Which is what they would say if you complained.
21:36 You know what I mean?
21:37 So it's all these like very gray scale or if you're in the studio with people and it's
21:43 like you and one other person there, it feels like, whoa, you know, like something could
21:47 really happen here.
21:48 You know, I've never reported anything and I feel like that's, they know that you can't
21:55 and yeah, if I didn't have, there are certain people I know like I would never be alone
22:00 with you.
22:01 Like I just know I would never be in a room alone with you and that's why I'm saying.
22:04 And is that because there are certain people that other people say don't be alone and that
22:07 like.
22:08 Yeah, I just know, like I just know the vibe and I would just always bring my manager,
22:12 I would always have my mom, like I would have somebody there to make sure that I'm safe
22:18 because for a lot of, and I'm lucky enough that I've been able to have that because a
22:23 lot of people, you know, they travel far and you end up in a room and you just want to
22:29 make your dreams come true and you do whatever it takes and then you're like put in this
22:34 uncomfortable situation and sometimes they make you feel like, well, if you want it,
22:40 you know what I mean?
22:41 So crazy to think that it sounds like such a cliche, for lack of a better word, but of
22:47 course it happens.
22:48 It does.
22:49 It does happen.
22:50 And I think it's obviously not restricted to the music industry.
22:55 I think this happens everywhere for a lot of women.
23:01 But it definitely is sad because you are just playing with somebody's dream and they're
23:08 like, I don't know, it's a very strange, it's a very strange industry and world for sure.
23:18 And especially, I wouldn't really say I've gotten to the point where people wouldn't
23:21 try me.
23:23 I think it actually changed, starting in the industry so young, I think it definitely,
23:27 I felt such a shift from when I was 17 to 18 because now I'm legal.
23:32 Right.
23:33 You know?
23:34 Yeah.
23:35 Which is so creepy.
23:36 So that almost invited other kind of culture.
23:39 Yeah.
23:40 Which is like, you're a fucking old man.
23:42 Like why are you even looking at me like that?
23:45 I really felt a shift as turning 18.
23:47 It was like, whoa.
23:49 Yeah.
23:50 But now I've just made my circle smaller and I know that there's of course amazing people
23:58 in the industry too and great people to work with.
24:02 But just for my own kind of protection and my own peace, just want to keep it small.
24:11 Making an album, it's been really nice to have a small group of people that I've been
24:16 writing most of it with.
24:18 And it's also nice because the more you work with somebody, then the closer you can get
24:24 to them and the more comfortable you are and the more you can share and make it just more
24:29 authentic.
24:30 I want to ask about one of your other recent singles, "Can't Tame Her" because it's
24:36 kind of alluding to what we've been talking about.
24:39 The lyrics are like, "You can't tie her down, you can't change her."
24:42 And I think it reflects how outspoken you've been throughout your career and how, like
24:47 I said, self-assured you are.
24:49 And you have spoken out about issues in the music industry and political issues.
24:55 And a lot of musicians don't do that because fear of retribution or whatever, or alienating
25:02 fans.
25:03 What is it that makes you feel compelled to speak out against something?
25:08 And is there anything in particular that one issue that you feel gets you particularly
25:12 kind of riled up in a way and you think, "This is something I should use my platform to talk
25:16 about"?
25:17 Well, I've just always been a very opinionated person.
25:21 And before my singing career really took off, I was just having a blog like every other
25:27 girl did, at least in Sweden, everybody had a blog.
25:31 Really?
25:32 Like everybody.
25:33 What kind of things did you put on the blog?
25:34 It was like the OG Instagram.
25:35 It was just like, "Hey, like, chillin'."
25:38 And then you would write a little like, "I was at an interview podcast today.
25:44 It was great."
25:45 Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
25:46 Just, you know, like a Facebook mom.
25:49 Huge, long caption and a lot of pictures.
25:52 So I would have that.
25:54 And then as I would grow older from being, you know, 13 to maybe 16, like a lot of stuff
26:01 was happening in me internally and externally.
26:04 I realized like, "Oh, wow, the world is like unequal."
26:08 It never really dawned on me because I was never thinking about that stuff.
26:11 I was just like a kid.
26:13 And then I grew up, I changed school.
26:15 I went to the Royal Swedish Ballet School before, which was just run by girls, was majority
26:22 girls.
26:23 So we were just having this sisterhood kind of vibe.
26:26 And then changed school.
26:28 It was so different.
26:30 And I just realized that feminism is so necessary and important.
26:37 And I think I got really sucked into it by these amazing writers in Sweden, and specifically
26:46 one person who was extremely radical.
26:49 And she was just saying like, "I hate men."
26:54 And I was like, "Hell yeah."
26:58 Because as I was starting to talk more about the importance of equality and my new thoughts
27:04 that I had just found, as I was talking about that on my blog, I got a lot of negative comments
27:09 towards that.
27:10 And they would usually come from men.
27:12 And I would just be like, "Why are you so, I don't know, like mad about that?
27:17 Why are you mad at me for saying that it exists rather than, you know, helping me and other
27:27 women work towards it not existing?"
27:32 And that would just kind of fuel the fire to what I was feeling.
27:39 Because I think also being a teenager, everything's very black and white.
27:42 You have these strong emotions.
27:43 You are finding yourself.
27:45 You're finding your kind of purpose in a way, but also your belief system is really being
27:51 molded.
27:54 And I just found my voice in a lot of strong people on social media.
28:01 And I think usually what I was writing about and how I feel is very reactionary.
28:06 So it wouldn't be just out of nowhere.
28:09 It would be to a response on a comment from a man.
28:14 Or it would be, you know, I mean, people are saying this now, but it really wasn't like
28:19 a mainstream thing.
28:20 I think when men hate women, they beat us, they murder us, they rape us.
28:27 And when women hate men, it's just a reaction saying, "I hate that you are doing this to
28:33 us."
28:34 Yeah.
28:35 I think it's interesting because to some people it does seem really black and white and really
28:38 simplistic, but there is a truth in it.
28:39 And I think the truth in it is, like you said, it's the rage and the rage at the injustice
28:45 of all of the things that you've said.
28:48 It's hard to swallow that.
28:53 It made me...
28:54 I was an angry teenager and that made me so mad to realize how the world looks and how
29:00 the world functions.
29:01 And the fact that, you know, I just saw in the taxi on the way here this woman being
29:07 stabbed to death in India.
29:10 And it's all these guys just around watching it happen.
29:14 And it just made me so mad.
29:16 But really what it makes me is it makes me sad.
29:20 It is so sad.
29:23 But that emotion is too hard to walk around with all the time.
29:29 So to really make something happen, I think anger is more of an emotion to get things
29:34 going.
29:35 It's more of a, you know, let's get to action.
29:38 If I would just walk around thinking about all the terrible things that are happening
29:41 to women and be sad, I don't even know if I could get out of bed.
29:47 Like, it's really... it's just tragic.
29:51 So it feels like an anger in me and I just wanted to do something about it.
29:55 And I wanted to create like a debate or a discussion.
29:57 Actually no, that was never my goal.
29:59 It just became a discussion and a topic.
30:03 And for a long time people were talking way more about what I was saying on my blog than
30:11 about my music.
30:13 But that was just how I felt.
30:15 And I think now I don't have my blog anymore and I'm still standing very strong in my opinions.
30:21 And obviously it's like, "Oh, I don't hate all men."
30:24 But like I hate the patriarchy and I hate what it does to the world and all of that.
30:31 But I'm very proud and I'm looking back like I was looking through the photo album that
30:37 my grandma had.
30:38 And I'm looking back at it and I'm like, "How could I be so strong?"
30:41 Because now when I see stuff on Twitter and people just argue with me, I have no energy.
30:55 There's no point either because it's just there are people on there that just want to
30:59 fight and they're just looking for someone.
31:02 They're really angry.
31:03 They're really sad.
31:04 They're really lonely.
31:05 They're really looking for a channel and someone to kind of project all their stuff onto.
31:08 And all you're going to do by engaging is just feeding their own misery.
31:12 And then subsequently your own because they'll fire back things at you.
31:15 I would wake up in the middle of the night for a long time and just be so anxious.
31:20 And like, "What are they writing to me?"
31:23 Because they were like, "Ugh."
31:25 It was really tough at one point.
31:28 The majority of these men that were just hating me were older than my dad.
31:35 And I'm like, "How can you be so bothered by a teenager?"
31:41 It blows my mind.
31:44 But it just kind of proves my point that it's like, "Wow, you just hate a girl who has a
31:50 voice and who is expressing herself."
31:53 But like you say, especially on the internet, it's just really hard to have a nuanced debate.
32:00 I feel like it's kind of impossible.
32:02 I think it is kind of impossible, unfortunately.
32:04 It would be so much better if we could have a nuanced debate.
32:08 But that doesn't lend itself to internet culture.
32:12 Look at something like TikTok, which is the most popular kind of social channel at the
32:16 moment.
32:17 It's all about that quick, instant, 10-second video.
32:19 You can't have a political debate in 10 seconds.
32:22 You can't make a complicated point in 10 seconds.
32:25 Totally.
32:26 Totally.
32:27 It's tricky.
32:28 But I am applauding.
32:29 I am just...
32:30 And all of the people who are still having that energy.
32:34 And I really want to thank a lot of people who had my back during that time in my life.
32:40 Because it was really...
32:42 It felt like...
32:43 Yeah, it was hard.
32:45 And I don't think I realized how hard it was since I was in it.
32:50 But then when I got out of it and I started to like...
32:53 Okay, I'm not going to write on my body.
32:55 It wasn't an act of choice.
32:57 I just stopped updating.
32:58 Literally updating.
32:59 I literally updated.
33:00 And then it just phased out.
33:01 And now I look back at that time and I'm like, how did I even have the strength to just do
33:09 that?
33:10 I don't know.
33:11 When was it that you put it to one side?
33:12 Kind of like...
33:13 20.
33:14 Yeah.
33:15 And the people, the OGs, people who know me, especially in Sweden, they know me.
33:21 They know what I think about things.
33:23 And I'm still firm in my opinions and beliefs.
33:27 Well, you are.
33:28 I mean, the next thing I was going to ask you about, because I think it reflects the
33:31 choices you made in your career, was that you recently did a deal with Sony and your
33:36 own label to kind of own all of your own music.
33:40 And when I read that, it reminded me of what Taylor Swift did when she kind of tried to
33:45 buy back all of her stuff and is now re-releasing her albums.
33:48 I think to someone outside of the industry, people would be like, wait, why don't you
33:53 own all your own music already?
33:55 And also, why is it so important as a woman in this industry to own your music?
34:00 Yeah.
34:01 I mean, that's a great question.
34:02 Why does an artist own their music?
34:06 And it's so sad.
34:07 And I think the Taylor Swift situation is really what inspired...
34:12 So I was talking about Ten earlier, and the guy who owned the company, Ola, he wanted
34:18 to sell it.
34:20 And he called me.
34:23 I was the first person he called to ask, are you interested in buying your masters, owning
34:29 your music?
34:30 And I said, of course I am.
34:32 And not a lot of people get that opportunity.
34:35 And if he wasn't up for selling it, it wouldn't be mine right now.
34:43 But it's such a weird thing that you make this music and you sing on these songs and
34:47 you make this art and it's still not really yours to have control over.
34:52 Because he had just seen what happened with Taylor Swift and he was just mortified and
34:57 felt like, I don't want that to be a thing.
35:01 And I'd rather go out being a nice person.
35:07 Because he got money.
35:09 He's fine.
35:10 A lot of people are just...
35:11 They're just greedy.
35:13 And sometimes people sell to investment capital companies and people who are not interested
35:20 in music at all.
35:21 But it's just like, it's like buying a stock.
35:24 But then you're also buying somebody's whole life and all the time and energy they put
35:28 into that.
35:30 So he was just like, I never want the Taylor Swift thing to be a thing.
35:35 Do you want it?
35:36 And I said, absolutely, I do.
35:38 Thank you so much.
35:40 And I wish that could happen for more artists, of course.
35:43 And I think even for the songs that I didn't write, like "End of Time" or even "Lush Life,"
35:49 I didn't write that track.
35:50 But I just, I loved it.
35:53 And it's such a part of my identity as an artist.
35:56 And that song is me.
35:58 You know what I mean?
35:59 That song is like one of the biggest things that have happened to me in my life.
36:04 So the fact that I have control over it and no one can kind of take it away from me or
36:11 the company, a record company can say, oh, well, we're just gonna...
36:16 This person wants to...
36:17 Drake calls out.
36:18 He's like, I want to sample "Lush Life."
36:21 That's still like my work, but I wouldn't get a dime from that because I wasn't creating
36:25 it.
36:26 But it's like, I have it in my home.
36:29 I have it in my house and it's mine and it's my baby and I can take care of it and I can
36:34 kind of have control and power over what I want my music to be like or go towards or
36:42 if it's in a movie, if it's in this, because that song is me.
36:46 It's like an extension of me as an artist.
36:48 So I'm just really happy that I got that opportunity.
36:52 And I just feel like a powerful businesswoman.
36:55 Yeah, but it is, it is.
36:57 It's a powerful business decision and it's crazy that that isn't the norm that people,
37:02 you know, these huge stars release these songs and they have no control over where they go
37:06 or how they're used.
37:08 It's bizarre.
37:09 God, there's so much else I want to ask you.
37:12 Okay, one more thing before we move on to your loves.
37:16 In an interview with British Vogue, you were asked to cite one of your favorite quotes
37:20 and you gave this one from Lady Gaga, which I'm going to read.
37:23 Some women choose to follow men and some women choose to follow their dreams.
37:27 If you're wondering which way to go, remember that your career will never wake up and tell
37:30 you that it doesn't love you anymore.
37:32 Yeah.
37:33 Such a great quote.
37:34 Why did you, why did you choose that?
37:36 I just think it's so good.
37:38 I don't feel like it needs much, it doesn't need an explanation.
37:42 It's very straight on.
37:44 But I think for a lot of, for a lot of women, a lot of young girls out there, the biggest
37:50 thing should be to follow your goals and dreams and what you want to do in life and how you
37:56 want to live your life.
37:58 I think to cater to a man is a little dangerous and you never know where you're going to end
38:04 up.
38:06 I think to just have it going for yourself and to live life in your true purpose.
38:11 And then if a man comes along, amazing.
38:14 Good for you, whoever comes along, whoever you want to date, good for you.
38:17 But it's so unpredictable, isn't it?
38:22 And it can happen without you realizing that you're doing it because it's what we're kind
38:26 of socially conditioned to do.
38:27 And I feel like, totally, and I feel like for a lot of people these days, sometimes
38:36 I'll see on TikTok, like how to, I don't know what's up with my algorithm, but it's like,
38:40 you know, the lady, oh, I said it, sprinkle, sprinkle.
38:44 It's like how to date a rich man, sprinkle, sprinkle.
38:47 And I'm like, interesting, because in a way I see this new wave of young girls wanting
38:54 to like, well, I'm just, I'm a girl, I'm amazing and I should be treated as a princess.
38:59 And I'm like, yes, you should, queen.
39:01 But also you should be in the power of wanting to do that for yourself, because if you depend
39:07 on somebody else to do that for you, then again, it's just very unpredictable and you
39:13 just never know where you're going to end up.
39:15 But I think the generations before us who were very dependent on a man working, a man
39:25 making the money, bringing home the bread, basically, it didn't give women any opportunities
39:32 to do anything with their lives.
39:35 And then if you're in a relationship and you are dependent on that person, then they can
39:42 kind of have, they have a lot of power over you.
39:46 I mean, just to have economic power over someone can be really an easy way into economic abuse
39:53 and like, well, you can't do this because I'm the one making the money or, well, I don't
40:01 want to spend it on that because I'm the one, you know what I mean?
40:04 I think to have control over your own life is so important.
40:10 And for a lot of women, they can't even afford to really get a divorce if they're not happy
40:16 or it doesn't even have to be as dramatic as being in an abusive relationship.
40:20 It could just be a simple fact that I'm not happy.
40:25 This is not what I want for myself.
40:26 And then you're sitting there thinking, well, what can I do?
40:29 You know, I don't have a job or I took care of the kids and now I'm kind of stuck.
40:39 And I have a lot of people, you know, I'm just looking at my family, like extended family,
40:43 and I see, I think there's some women in there who would have benefited from not being in
40:48 relationships but they just couldn't leave because where would they live, literally?
40:54 And then, yeah, your career just can't leave you.
40:58 You can always leave your career.
41:00 You can always change your mind and live a million lives if that's what you want, but
41:05 then it would be up to you.
41:06 Yeah.
41:07 That's the most important thing.
41:09 Okay, let's move on to the loves of your life.
41:17 So your first love, I don't think we've had a mode of transport before.
41:21 Tell us why you've chosen this.
41:24 I think this is the best invention.
41:27 Like I remember where I was in life when I saw this for the first time.
41:32 I was in Paris and I just could not believe my eyes.
41:37 I felt like a child in a candy store.
41:40 It's these electrical scooters that are all over the city.
41:46 I don't know, they're a little restricted here in London, but where I live in Stockholm,
41:51 you can kind of take them anywhere.
41:53 Really?
41:54 Yeah.
41:55 It's just so convenient and it's so fun and it's quick.
42:00 It's just honestly, it brings me so much joy to be standing on an electrical scooter on
42:07 a sunny day and just going somewhere.
42:10 I love to go somewhere.
42:12 I love to be in the car on the way to something or I love to be on the plane.
42:19 The feeling of just going somewhere is really exciting to me.
42:26 And then to do that on a scooter, come on, what's not to love?
42:32 It's easier than a bike.
42:33 You just stand there.
42:34 I love that I don't have to be responsible for it.
42:37 When I'm done, I'll just park it in its place and I'll just leave it there.
42:42 And I think it's absolutely excellent.
42:47 And I think it works extra well in Stockholm because it's a city built for bikes.
42:51 Yeah, so I was going to say, because you have cycle lanes and all that kind of stuff, so
42:55 it's safe.
42:56 Yeah, because in London it's a little bit more complicated, I think.
43:00 And there's a lot more people here and there's a lot of small roads and those alleys and
43:06 all of that.
43:07 But in Stockholm, it's just perfection.
43:11 And what do you make of public transport?
43:12 Do you avoid it if you can?
43:16 I get really anxious on the train and the tube.
43:18 In London, for example, whenever the tube stops in between stations, which it does all
43:24 the time, but every time it does, I'm like, I'm never getting off.
43:30 This is it.
43:31 And then I do that for about 20 seconds and then it starts moving again.
43:33 I'm like, I'm fine.
43:34 I'm fine.
43:35 And then if it stops again, I'm like, oh my God, this is it.
43:36 This is it.
43:37 This is it.
43:38 It keeps happening.
43:39 Oh no, that's stressful.
43:40 I think I'm fine with that.
43:41 That's good.
43:42 Yeah.
43:43 But I would much rather take the electrical scooters over any sort of tube or bus or taxi
43:53 or Uber.
43:55 Like sometimes when I'm going to an interview, they're like, should I put you a taxi?
43:58 And I'm like, no, I'll take the scooter.
44:00 I'll just take it anywhere.
44:03 It is nice.
44:05 But I'm lucky though, the tube in Stockholm, a lot of it is over the ground.
44:09 Yeah.
44:10 Yeah.
44:11 Most public transport is better when you're not in London, particularly in Europe.
44:15 Okay.
44:16 And your second love is a condiment.
44:19 I keep saying condiment.
44:20 Is it a condiment?
44:21 I think so.
44:22 I think so.
44:23 It's a sauce.
44:24 It's a sauce.
44:25 It's everything to me.
44:26 Tell us about it.
44:27 It should be in everything, on everything.
44:28 It's soy sauce.
44:31 I don't know who came up with it many, many, many, many, many years ago somewhere in Asia.
44:38 It was a genius who just said, yeah, let's like ferment these beans.
44:45 And what came out of it was just liquid gold to me.
44:51 When did you begin your love affair with soy sauce?
44:53 I think I've always had it.
44:55 Really?
44:56 Even as a kid?
44:57 Because it's a very like particular taste for a young...
44:58 Is it?
44:59 I think so.
45:00 What is it about it?
45:01 It's salty.
45:02 It's like a little umami.
45:03 Yeah.
45:04 It's a sophisticated thing.
45:06 No.
45:07 No?
45:08 I think we've always been very...
45:13 Swedish people love Thailand for some reason.
45:16 And basically in any sort of East Asian food, it would be some sort of soy sauce.
45:26 Maybe not Vietnamese as much, but I love Thai food.
45:31 I love Chinese food.
45:32 I love Japanese food.
45:35 I just love that.
45:38 And I feel like karma in my life is that I'm with a man who is really allergic to soy.
45:44 Really?
45:45 Oh, wow.
45:46 How do you navigate that?
45:49 Can you just not eat it around him?
45:50 No, no, no.
45:51 I do.
45:52 Okay.
45:53 And I do take him to restaurants, like my favorite Japanese spot.
45:55 And I'm just like, "You're just going to have to have the chicken with no seasoning and
46:00 white rice because I have to have all this."
46:04 But yeah, I just think it's...
46:08 Even just a white rice with soy sauce.
46:11 Yeah.
46:12 Come on.
46:13 Just add everything.
46:14 It just adds so much to it.
46:18 That's really where my heart's at.
46:19 If there's a dish that has soy in it, I'm going to love it.
46:24 I'm going to love it.
46:25 How do you navigate eating when you're traveling and you're on tour and you're constantly kind
46:28 of moving around?
46:29 Because that I think is so difficult to maintain any kind of routine.
46:33 Yeah.
46:34 It is for me just generally a life, having a routine.
46:37 But I'm such a creature of habit.
46:39 So if I know that I like something, I will just kind of stick with that.
46:45 And then a noodle is always kind of safe.
46:49 And then when you're out on the road though, specifically in America, it's kind of hard
46:53 because at least I'm not a vegan because that's tricky.
46:58 In certain places when you're out next to the highway, there's Popeyes, Taco Bell, and
47:05 McDonald's.
47:06 Fast food, yeah.
47:08 But I think...
47:10 Do you end up eating that or do you bring your own stuff?
47:12 No, I would not bring my own stuff.
47:15 But I think the kind of tour managers that I've had over the years have been very good
47:20 at like...
47:22 I don't mind eating fast food as long as I get a salad as well.
47:27 You know?
47:28 I'm never too hard on myself like, "Oh, I can't eat that.
47:30 I can't eat that."
47:31 I've never had that.
47:32 But if I only eat fast food for a week...
47:35 Oh, you'll feel gross.
47:36 You feel gross.
47:37 Yeah.
47:38 And also like, "Okay, well, if Popeyes was all they had, then I'll take that and I will
47:43 make a smoothie as well."
47:47 But yeah, that one is a little tricky.
47:50 But I think there's always a little shiny spot wherever you're at, I feel like.
47:56 So always look for that.
47:57 Always follow the soy sauce.
47:58 Yeah.
47:59 That's...
48:00 It's a good strategy.
48:01 I mean, I can't cook really.
48:03 And so soy sauce is my kind of go-to ingredient for any dish.
48:06 Yes.
48:07 I'm like, "It's instantly gonna make it taste good."
48:08 100%.
48:09 100%.
48:10 Yeah.
48:11 Can you cook?
48:12 No.
48:13 I'm like, "I agree."
48:14 It's a very, very quick answer.
48:15 Yeah.
48:16 Fine.
48:17 Yeah.
48:18 Okay.
48:19 And your third, love, I think there are a few different things you could say for this,
48:24 but I think I'm gonna lean towards performing.
48:28 Not a surprise.
48:29 Yeah.
48:30 And you kind of touched on this earlier.
48:31 And, you know, you've said that entertaining people and making them happy is kind of like
48:35 your goal in life.
48:36 It really is.
48:38 What is it about that that makes you so happy?
48:41 And do you get that the most when you are on stage and like in front of a crowd of people?
48:45 I feel really...
48:46 Being on the stage is quite a vulnerable place, but I also feel really powerful.
48:55 And just like anything can happen.
48:58 And I think it's such a beautiful moment.
49:00 I also love to be in the crowd.
49:02 I love to watch concerts.
49:03 I love to watch shows, theaters, movies, like anything.
49:06 I love to enjoy whatever is happening in front of me.
49:11 Because you are creating such a magical experience for people.
49:18 And I think music, maybe sports in there a little bit, but music is just different.
49:23 It's just primal in a way that it will...
49:26 It's almost like a spiritual thing, being together with thousands of people and enjoying
49:32 a song and singing along with them at the same time.
49:37 It just really does something to you.
49:39 I think it is a spiritual thing.
49:41 And I also think there's something very special about it now, because when we are in this
49:46 very kind of digital world, we've kind of lost a lot of the things that I think would
49:52 make us feel like that before we had smartphones, before we communicated on WhatsApp, before
49:56 we had Instagram.
49:57 And it's like going to a festival and seeing a gig, performing, and having that kind of
50:02 unity is one of the last remaining things that we hold on to.
50:06 And sure, everyone's there with their phones or whatever, but you're still, you're all
50:09 there together.
50:10 And I don't think that's ever going to go away.
50:13 I don't think so.
50:15 We might be standing with our VR goggles in a few years in our rooms, but I still, we
50:22 want that connection with other people.
50:25 And seeing a video, and you can see that there's probably like millions of other people who
50:29 have enjoyed it.
50:30 It's not the same as enjoying it with other people.
50:34 So I just think it's incredible that I've gotten the opportunity to be that vessel,
50:41 I guess, in a way of people experiencing great things, at least for a moment.
50:48 And I think that also, this stretches over, like, I just love to make people feel really
50:58 good.
50:59 I love to make my friends laugh.
51:01 I'm such a clown, to the point sometimes where I'm like, be serious.
51:08 But you know what I mean?
51:09 Like, be serious for one second.
51:12 But I just think life is about having a great time.
51:16 At least that's how I feel now, being 25.
51:18 I'm like, I just want to have a great time.
51:21 And do you have kind of role models of female musicians and performers?
51:26 I mean, Beyonce is my number one.
51:28 She's just untouchable to me.
51:30 She really is something.
51:32 What can I even say?
51:36 It's also incredible that she is so deep into her career, and she's still peaking, and she's
51:42 still relevant, not only relevant, but she's still the number one.
51:48 Yeah, setting the agenda.
51:49 She really is.
51:50 She's shifting the culture.
51:52 She is not following whatever's going on right now.
51:55 She's telling us, this is what's going on right now, or this is what will be going on
51:59 after I release my album, and I'm doing this tour.
52:03 So that's just a talent in itself, I think.
52:05 And then also that voice, and she just has this star quality of being so, I guess you
52:14 could say natural, but she puts in the work.
52:18 She's not just waking up and going on stage and doing that.
52:21 She really puts in the work.
52:23 But it makes it seem so natural and seamless.
52:30 She's my number one.
52:31 And I just love women with big voices.
52:34 I grew up listening to Celine Dion, Whitney Houston, Christina Aguilera.
52:39 Those are my four number one girlies.
52:43 And yeah, I'm just so happy that I get to do this.
52:49 And finally, do you have any kind of standout memories from performing in front of a crowd?
52:53 Is there any one song in particular that you really love performing, and any kind of standout
52:59 moments for you?
53:00 I think I love to perform a lot of the album tracks that isn't as popular, because it just
53:08 feels fun and special to me.
53:11 And to see the people who know those tracks that aren't necessarily the hits is really
53:15 fun, because I don't get to do them as much as like "Symphony," for example.
53:20 But it is so nice to sing a song like that, because the majority of the crowd just sings
53:25 along with you.
53:26 So that's a different kind of experience and feeling when I do that.
53:31 I really love all of my songs.
53:34 And I think a really good experience that I've had-- hmm.
53:43 When I was doing my tour in South America, specifically Brazil, was just, what are they
53:50 doing over there?
53:51 Like, what's happening?
53:52 I think they're just happy.
53:53 Yeah, like, what's happening?
53:54 Because that crowd, sometimes I feel like Swedish people are a bit-- maybe just a little
54:04 bit shy.
54:05 It's not that they're not enjoying it, but maybe they're a bit concerned about like,
54:09 "Oh, I don't want to be too loud, because I might disturb the person who's next to me."
54:13 Or I don't--
54:14 Too sweet.
54:15 Yeah, it's very like, "Oh, don't mind me."
54:18 You know?
54:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
54:20 That kind of culture.
54:21 I think Swedish people enjoy music a lot.
54:24 We just don't express it like the people in South America.
54:28 Because they go in.
54:29 They came to have a good time.
54:32 And you can feel that.
54:33 So the festivals in Argentina and Brazil have been-- yeah, they're just up there.
54:45 No one's really touching them as of now.
54:47 I need to go.
54:48 I need to go.
54:49 Yeah.
54:50 That is it for today.
54:51 Thank you so much for listening.
54:53 You can listen to all episodes of Love Lives on all major podcast platforms.
54:58 You can also watch us on independent TV, all connected devices, and all major social media
55:04 platforms.
55:05 I will see you soon.
55:06 Bye.
55:06 Bye.
55:06 [MUSIC PLAYING]