Former All-American Dan Dickau talks with WCC commissioner Stu Jackson on conference realignment, Gonzaga's future in the WCC and more
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00:03 Hey, Zag fans.
00:09 You're watching Gonzaga Nation.
00:11 I'm your host, Dan DeKalb.
00:12 Today's guest, a special one, in that we
00:15 have the new WCC commissioner, Stu Jackson, joining us.
00:20 Stu, appreciate the time.
00:22 How has the first couple of months on the job been?
00:26 Yeah, the first months have been,
00:29 I would describe as being active, Dan.
00:33 When I officially started towards the end of April
00:37 and into May and June, just coincided with our season
00:42 where there were a lot of meetings in terms
00:45 of both internal and external.
00:49 Aside from the fact that I was becoming
00:51 familiar with the WCC's governance structure, which
00:55 in and of itself is very involved in terms
01:00 of participation by many of our members, of which I also
01:03 had to be a part of.
01:05 So it was an active first couple of months for sure.
01:10 Since that time, I feel like there's
01:16 been a little bit more of a cadence
01:18 and not as much of a fire drill as there
01:20 was in the first couple of months.
01:22 But yeah, we're settling in nicely.
01:25 Well, when you look at your resume,
01:27 you've had an unbelievable career as a player,
01:31 University of Oregon, Seattle U, and then
01:33 an assistant coach in the college ranks,
01:35 including Washington State, Providence.
01:38 You were a head coach at Wisconsin.
01:40 You have been a general manager and a head coach in the NBA.
01:44 You've also had roles in the NBA's head office.
01:48 What intrigued you with this position,
01:52 with the WCC being that I'm sure there's
01:54 many opportunities out there that were right there for you
01:58 to decide to be a part of?
02:00 Yeah, it's a fair question.
02:02 I feel like in many respects, accepting the position here
02:08 to WCC, if you look back on my career as you just mentioned,
02:13 a lot of roads point to this position, where I've
02:17 had to, as commissioner of the WCC,
02:21 combine a lot of those different skills
02:24 that I've learned along the way.
02:26 Certainly, much of my network that I've
02:29 accumulated over those years is helpful in this position.
02:34 And relating to the issues of our conference, issues
02:40 relating to commissioners across the country, in many respects,
02:45 all roads led myself to this point.
02:50 Coupled with the fact that, for me personally,
02:54 I was looking for a new challenge.
02:56 I had spent the last 8 and 1/2 years
02:59 with the Big East Conference in a basketball role.
03:02 And it's been very stimulating and also energizing.
03:09 Behind the fact, Dan, that I've probably
03:12 spent less thinking about basketball in the last four
03:15 months than I have my entire life,
03:18 and more focused on other sports,
03:21 as well as the issues that accompany them
03:25 within our conference and nationally.
03:27 So that's been kind of fun, quite frankly,
03:30 and a real learning experience.
03:32 Well, you're a basketball guy through and through.
03:34 You mentioned you haven't spent a ton of time
03:37 thinking about basketball since taking over this position.
03:40 But football is the driver with all things college sports
03:44 right now, it seems, these days.
03:47 The WCC doesn't have a large footprint with football.
03:50 I would actually say that Gonzaga--
03:52 or excuse me, basketball, due to Gonzaga's success,
03:55 St. Mary's success, is the driver in the WCC.
03:59 I would imagine that is similar with the Big East.
04:02 Being a West Coast guy, I don't know the footprint of the Big
04:04 East as well as you would.
04:06 Is that fair to say that basketball
04:09 is the driver for the WCC, and that you've
04:12 had to get creative in learning and thinking
04:14 about moving the WCC forward?
04:18 Yes, in a word.
04:20 I've had a front row seat the past 8 and 1/2,
04:23 9 years at the Big East, and witnessed, again,
04:28 firsthand what a basketball-centric conference
04:33 can do in terms of the branding and national visibility
04:37 of a conference in each of its institutions,
04:41 as well as, Dan, what it can do for other sports
04:46 in the conference in terms of being a revenue
04:49 driver that services all of our student athletes.
04:53 And we don't have football.
04:57 That's both a curse, but it's also a blessing.
05:01 We don't have football's expenses.
05:04 We have the ability to focus in on a game of basketball
05:08 and have that game benefit our conference in a way
05:12 that maybe football conferences don't.
05:15 In other words, our staff here is
05:19 going to increasingly focus on men's and women's basketball
05:24 and being able to take advantage of that sport
05:27 as the front porch for our conference
05:29 so that it can, in fact, help us reap
05:32 the benefits of being a basketball-only conference.
05:36 And that's just something that we're committed to.
05:41 We're never going to have big-time football,
05:42 but that's OK.
05:44 We're going to be the best basketball
05:45 conference that we can be.
05:48 Well, obviously, that comment to be the best basketball
05:51 conference we can be, there are a lot
05:53 of people that think the Big East might be the best
05:56 basketball conference.
05:57 UConn won the national title a year ago.
05:59 Yes, the Big 12, the SEC, the Big 10,
06:02 they're going to try to lay claim to that.
06:04 But when you make that comment and you
06:06 see what the Big East has done basketball-wise,
06:10 what is unique about the approach
06:12 that maybe those schools have that you
06:14 want to try to share with the WCC schools
06:17 to continue to elevate their programs?
06:20 Because I see the WCC as being on the cusp of something great.
06:24 Two years ago, three teams managed the NCAA tournament.
06:27 Gonzaga's a definite tournament team every year.
06:30 St. Mary's is a legitimate top 25 program.
06:33 What are some of the messages from the Big East experience
06:36 that you have and you can share with the other programs
06:39 in the WCC?
06:41 Well, the first key attribute about the Big East is driven--
06:48 and their success has been in part driven
06:51 by their broadcast deal.
06:55 When the Big East was reconfigured,
06:57 so now 10 years ago, that reconfiguration
07:01 took place, Dan, at a time when Fox Sports was launching Fox
07:07 Sports 1 network.
07:10 And that network was at a time when they needed content.
07:15 And with the reformation and reconfiguration of the Big
07:18 East, what better way to help jumpstart a new network
07:23 than with the content of college basketball,
07:25 specifically in the Big East?
07:27 That was a huge driver.
07:31 You might even say stroke of luck
07:33 that then fueled those, at the time, 10 institutions,
07:38 now 11 institutions with UConn.
07:40 It fueled the growth of that conference.
07:45 Now, that's the history.
07:48 With respect to the WCC, we have an opportunity
07:52 to also take advantage of that type of exponential growth
07:57 going forward.
07:59 Right now, we are a conference that has great visibility.
08:06 We've had very good success.
08:08 But there's a lot of upside as it
08:10 relates to improving the breadth and the depth
08:15 of our conference and the performance top to bottom.
08:18 There's an opportunity out in the future,
08:22 upon our next media rights deal on linear TV,
08:27 to perhaps increase our revenue in that way
08:30 so that we, too, can benefit much in the same way
08:34 that Big East did with their growth of their conference.
08:39 And that's a wonderful and extraordinary opportunity
08:43 for us.
08:45 Up to this point, Dan, we've done a good job
08:49 in terms of the notoriety and the visibility
08:52 of our conference, in part due to, as you mentioned,
08:55 Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and some of our other institutions,
08:59 like St. Santa Clara, and San Francisco, and LMU.
09:05 But I really feel strongly that even those--
09:10 our other members in our conference
09:12 can really experience some growth
09:14 if we play our hand right from a performance standpoint
09:18 and from a broadcast standpoint.
09:19 So that, like the Big East, we are certainly
09:23 talked about as the best basketball-centric conference
09:27 in the country.
09:29 Well, conference realignment has been a buzzword
09:32 over the last year or so.
09:34 And there was a ton of movement on the West Coast
09:36 in particular a couple of weeks back.
09:39 A lot of it has to do with those broadcast media rights
09:42 that you mentioned just a second ago in your previous answer.
09:45 But you guys were proactive.
09:47 You just signed a deal with ESPN on the ESPN Plus side
09:52 to expand the coverage of the conference.
09:54 I know that deal, as well as CBS Sports Network,
09:58 is a deal that you guys are excited about.
10:01 How does that ESPN Plus arrangement
10:04 impact the visibility of teams throughout the league?
10:08 No, it's a good question, Dan.
10:10 Quite simply, the streaming platform or the digital
10:14 platform that we were on previous to ESPN Plus
10:18 had a million subscribers.
10:20 ESPN Plus has 25.3 million subscribers
10:24 and places our conference on the main street
10:28 of digital streaming, which could enhance our visibility
10:34 and undoubtedly will enhance our visibility,
10:37 not only for basketball, Dan, but for all sports.
10:40 And oh, by the way, those other sports
10:43 that we compete in, like volleyball and tennis
10:47 and golf and soccer, both on the men's and women's side
10:51 in some cases, we legitimately compete on a national level.
10:59 And legitimately, each year can compete
11:03 for a national championship.
11:04 We're in Final Fours in those sports.
11:07 We make Elite Eights in those sports.
11:10 And people should see that.
11:12 They should know that.
11:13 And ESPN Plus gives us a digital platform
11:17 where our student athletes, our fans, parents, and anyone else
11:23 who wants to join in have an opportunity to actually see
11:28 our teams play on a platform that has
11:31 some integrity and invisibility.
11:34 As mentioned, realignment has been a buzzword.
11:38 There's been talk about Gonzaga maybe going to the Big 12.
11:42 There's talk of the Pac-12.
11:44 Now people are calling the Pac-4.
11:46 How do those groups stay together?
11:48 How do you as commissioner safeguard the league right now?
11:52 Do you have an open line of communication
11:53 with athletic directors, coaches, presidents
11:57 to stay in the moment to be able to make
12:00 the best decision for the league?
12:02 How do those conversations continue
12:04 to evolve to make the WCC as strong as possible now
12:09 as well as moving into the future?
12:10 And are there conversations to expand the WCC's footprint?
12:16 Yeah.
12:17 Listen, I'll be very candid with respect
12:20 to the first issue you raised, which
12:23 is about Gonzaga specifically.
12:26 The fact that other conferences are courting Gonzaga,
12:30 that is nothing new.
12:33 You date back to 2017 when they really
12:36 started to experience success on a national level.
12:40 So they became an attractive property for any conference
12:44 in their country.
12:44 And fortunately for us, they're part of the WCC.
12:48 But as you look at realignment, it's primarily fueled--
12:53 we mentioned football before, but it's
12:56 a financial fueled as well.
12:59 And if I'm in Gonzaga's position,
13:03 I owe it to my institution to explore opportunities
13:07 to increase revenue.
13:11 And I don't think anyone faults them for that.
13:16 And if I were in their position, I'd do the same thing.
13:20 I think with respect to the health of our conference,
13:24 it is incumbent upon us that as a conference,
13:28 we continue to grow and strengthen our conference,
13:33 increase revenue in our conference,
13:36 increase the opportunity to compete at a higher
13:40 level during a conference schedule in a way
13:43 that we never have.
13:45 And if we increase revenue and increase
13:48 the depth of competitiveness in our conference,
13:51 well, then for a school like a Gonzaga or a St. Mary's,
13:57 going to another conference all of a sudden
13:59 doesn't become as attractive.
14:02 And that's on us as all nine members
14:06 to make that happen to safeguard ourselves.
14:11 But further to that, it opens up the notionality
14:16 that you want to continue to strengthen your conference
14:19 by adding members.
14:21 If the right members provide that opportunity
14:25 to give the conference more basketball
14:27 depth for men's and women's and increase
14:30 the competitiveness of our conference
14:32 as well as the visibility.
14:34 And that's something we actively are pursuing as well.
14:39 That's an interesting answer because I
14:43 would agree that with all this alignment,
14:46 there might be opportunities for the WCC
14:49 to strengthen themselves.
14:50 And I don't want to put particular schools out there.
14:54 But to know that the league has to be aware of everything
14:58 that's moving and be opportunistic when
15:01 something arises is great to know for people that support
15:06 the league, that want to see the league flourish,
15:08 and fans of the league.
15:09 I want to go back to your time in the NBA now.
15:11 And this is one of the times you and I have had--
15:15 we've crossed paths.
15:19 You were in charge of doling out fines and suspensions.
15:24 And any time somebody got a phone call from you
15:27 early in the morning was probably not a good thing.
15:30 I got a phone call from you, I think, about 8 AM one morning
15:34 after Karon Butler and I got in a little skirmish
15:38 during a game when the Hornets, we played the Lakers years ago.
15:44 And he got suspended for a game.
15:47 I got fined for being a part of the skirmish
15:51 where I think I was able to just lower it down
15:54 to just a technical foul.
15:56 So my fine wasn't much.
15:57 But his fine was a suspension, docking of game pay,
16:01 and a fine.
16:02 How would you go about doling out
16:05 fines when you were in that position with the NBA League
16:07 office?
16:09 No, yeah.
16:10 And I actually remember the incident quite well.
16:13 And that was a part of my job as executive vice president
16:19 of operations that I did not like, quite frankly.
16:23 But it was probably the most public part of my position
16:28 in that I was in charge of everything on court.
16:32 And that included everything that any fan
16:34 would see on their television that was included,
16:38 but not limited to the rules and how the game was played,
16:41 the equipment that we used, the ball that we used,
16:44 but also decorum for coaches and players.
16:47 And sometimes when the rules of decorum were broken,
16:51 we would have to step in as an office
16:54 and penalize players, coaches, and yes, sometimes teams.
17:01 So in looking at players, though, it's actually
17:05 quite an involved process, Dan.
17:07 It's not at the whim of me saying, oh, boy,
17:10 a bad thing happened.
17:11 We're going to send somebody.
17:13 We're going to find somebody.
17:14 That process includes NBA security,
17:20 interviewing the combatants.
17:24 We would accumulate media reports.
17:26 We would speak to the officials.
17:28 We would speak to pertinent people
17:30 that were a part of the incident,
17:32 if there were other coaches, if there were scores table
17:36 members, that they heard anything, what they saw.
17:40 And we would compile all that information
17:42 and try to make a decision based upon comparables of like
17:48 instances previously.
17:50 Although no incident is exactly the same.
17:53 So when you have all that information compiled,
17:55 I would take that information, write up a report,
17:59 make a recommendation to then Commissioner David Stern.
18:02 Ultimately, it was his decision.
18:05 But nine times out of 10, he would follow my recommendation.
18:10 And then at that point came the tough part
18:13 in that we would call the teams, and we would call the players
18:17 and tell them what the result was.
18:20 Not fun.
18:20 I never enjoyed taking money out of players or coaches' pockets.
18:26 But given the rules, some of them
18:28 being bright line rules that require a suspension or a fine,
18:36 that's what you had to do and what you signed up for.
18:39 Well, Karon Butler and I have talked over the years
18:41 since that.
18:42 And I actually had him on as a guest of a podcast a year
18:46 or so back.
18:48 And we talked about that little altercation that we had.
18:51 And he asked me if I would maybe alleviate
18:57 some of that fine money in a joking way.
18:59 That wasn't the case.
18:59 But maybe when you come up to Spokane,
19:02 we can grab lunch at least.
19:04 And we can put that behind us if you're OK with that.
19:06 Yeah, yeah.
19:07 But I have to warn you now, that money's already
19:09 gone into my grown kids' college fund, so you can't get it back.
19:13 Fair enough.
19:15 Fair enough.
19:17 You spent a long time in the NBA.
19:19 And one of the things that I was most disappointed about
19:23 with the NBA is losing the presence of the Sonics
19:27 in Seattle, but also the Grizzlies
19:30 having moved to Memphis.
19:33 And this was before I was even in the league.
19:35 But what was your experience like being in the Northwest
19:40 with the Vancouver Grizzlies?
19:42 Obviously, the team struggled to win.
19:44 But I've been up there to run camps and clinics.
19:47 Gonzaga has recruited players out of Canada and Vancouver,
19:50 BC in particular.
19:51 It's an amazing basketball community.
19:54 What was your experience like up there?
19:57 It was a wonderful experience, and one
19:59 that I will take with me forever.
20:03 Huge challenge in terms of bringing NBA basketball
20:07 in both cities of Vancouver and Toronto into a country not
20:13 really used to NBA basketball.
20:16 When I got there, Dan, they used to refer to games
20:19 as going to watch them down at the rink, not
20:23 the arena or the gym.
20:25 So that gives you an indication of just where the mindset was.
20:29 But the education process then took place,
20:33 and they became very rabid NBA fans.
20:39 Attendance was very good.
20:41 We always finished in about the middle of the pack in the NBA.
20:45 There were two items that were against us at the time
20:51 in terms of having success.
20:53 One is the Canadian dollar at that time
20:56 was, I believe, at its lowest point while we were there,
20:59 about $0.65.
21:01 So your largest expense and player salaries
21:03 were paid in Canadian dollars.
21:05 That was very onerous on a franchise.
21:08 And the second was the expansion deal
21:10 that both Toronto and Vancouver signed at the time
21:16 more specifically indicated that you couldn't have anything
21:20 higher than the sixth pick in the draft.
21:23 That really sort of put us, I think, in the starting block.
21:28 That was a little bit unfair.
21:31 But we did with what we could and built the sport,
21:36 built a team that was ultimately competitive in both cities.
21:42 And I think one of the biggest influences, Dan,
21:48 if you think about it going back,
21:51 at the beginning of those franchises, the Raptors
21:54 in Toronto, the Grizzlies in Vancouver,
21:57 it really sparked basketball in the country, particularly
22:03 youth basketball.
22:05 And if you look at the number of Canadian players
22:09 now playing in the NBA, you can trace it right back
22:14 to the beginning of the Grizzlies and the Raptors.
22:18 Those same young people, they're now NBA veterans right now
22:24 that started playing or were inspired by their respective
22:29 teams in those two cities.
22:32 Steve Nash was an aberration.
22:33 He came before that.
22:35 But there weren't very many of those.
22:37 And now you have so many Canadian players in the NBA,
22:40 some of them like Jamal Murray, who are NBA champions.
22:44 And that just dates back to the start of those franchises.
22:49 Great experience, great city.
22:51 And yeah, I'm not surprised that you're doing camps and clinics
22:55 up there, because there's really an appetite
22:57 for the game of basketball in a way there hadn't
23:00 been, say, 30 years ago.
23:02 Well, I know we've got a couple of minutes left.
23:04 And I want to be mindful of your time.
23:06 But you spent a number of years at the highest level in the NBA
23:09 with the office.
23:10 You spent time with the Big East before taking on this WCC
23:14 commissioner role.
23:16 What are the biggest differences between professional sports
23:20 and college sports, especially now
23:24 that the lines are blurred a little bit with NIL
23:27 and with the amount of money that's
23:28 in broadcast media rights?
23:31 Well, the differences, actually, Dan, right now are shrinking.
23:35 If you take into account the ability for student athletes
23:39 to engage in NIL, particularly in the sports of football
23:42 and basketball, there's an opportunity for--
23:46 well-deserved opportunity for student athletes
23:48 to actually generate revenue behind their own name
23:53 and their likeness.
23:55 And that's terrific.
23:56 It's terrific because the financial model
23:59 within collegiate sports has changed so drastically
24:03 in the last 50 years from being kind of a purist mom and pop
24:10 operation to a multibillion-dollar business
24:14 of which the student athletes should, in fact, participate
24:18 at some level.
24:20 So you couple that ability to generate revenue
24:24 and coupled with the transfer portal, which essentially
24:28 is NBA-free agency on steroids--
24:33 Yes.
24:34 --and I say because no one's under contracting in college,
24:38 and it starts to take on the look of a professional sport.
24:43 So what were differences previously
24:46 are now shrinking in many regards.
24:51 From a personal standpoint, I actually
24:55 preferred coaching and dealing with student athletes
25:00 at the collegiate space over professional players.
25:05 And the reason why is with college athletes
25:10 as a coach or an administrator, you're
25:12 dealing with them in a very formidable time of their lives
25:16 when they're still shaping who they are, who they want to be,
25:20 and who they're going to be.
25:21 And having the opportunity to participate in that development
25:25 and form those lifelong relationships
25:29 is really rewarding personally for people like myself.
25:35 So yeah, so from that respect, that's a plus.
25:39 But the actual sports are starting to look very similar.
25:43 Stu, I appreciate the time.
25:45 I welcome you to the WCC.
25:47 I know you're going to do great things with the experience
25:49 that you're bringing from all the different roles
25:51 that you've had.
25:52 Next time you're in Spokane, I'm sure,
25:54 for a game at the McCarthy Athletic Center,
25:56 you're more than welcome to stop by our studios,
25:59 have a sit down in person.
26:00 I would love to continue this conversation.
26:02 But thanks again for joining.
26:04 And thank you Zag fans for following Gonzaga Nation.
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