France abayas controversy: Court to rule on legality of ban on muslim robe

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Transcript
00:00 to tell us a little bit more. Clovis Casali, our reporter, is with me. Clovis, first of all,
00:04 just give us a sense of the bigger context here and what's at stake as well. Well, you said it,
00:09 secularism, laicite, that's the French concept. First, a figure, when pupils returned to school
00:15 after the summer holidays on Monday, some 300 girls defied the ban on the abaya, out of which
00:22 67 refused completely to change clothes and therefore were sent back home. The question
00:29 here really is, is the abaya, this Muslim garment, a religious outfit or a traditional one? If it's
00:37 a religious one, well, it would violate the laws of laicite, secularism. In France, this principle,
00:44 it's dated back for more than 100 years. What is laicite? It's a concept and principle,
00:50 meaning no religious signs tolerated in school. It goes back to the separation of church and state
00:57 and no religious signs tolerated in state schools, whether it's religious Christian crosses,
01:02 Jewish keepers or Muslim headscarves. And when the education minister, Gabriel Attal, argued that
01:09 the ban of the abaya was done to follow the rule of laicite, well, he also said that state schools
01:15 are free for everyone. And when you wear clothes such as the abaya, it differentiates you from
01:22 others and that's an issue. And that's why also President Macron in recent days has been talking
01:27 about trying uniforms in school. You have uniforms in many schools in the UK, for instance, not in
01:32 France. Why did he talk about uniforms? Because of this context of the abaya and to say pupils
01:38 need to be dressed in the same way to reduce differences, cultural, everybody's French,
01:44 you need to defend the republican model. That's the idea. Let's take a listen to Gabriel Attal,
01:49 the education minister. That was the soundbite we're going to listen to. It was a week ago
01:53 and he was explaining why he's put forward this ban on abayas.
01:58 In recent months, as we know, there has been a considerable increase in attacks on secularism,
02:04 particularly with the wearing of religious dress such as abayas. In the face of occasional blows,
02:09 attacks and attempts at destabilization, we must and will stand united. Standing together
02:15 means being clear. The abaya has no place in our schools. And so Clovis, clearly this idea of
02:22 banning the abaya is deeply controversial and there's been plenty of political reaction to
02:28 what Gabriel Attal had to say there. Give us a sense of where the main political parties stand
02:32 on this issue. Well, let's start with the left wing, with the NUPES, the left wing coalition.
02:37 Its strongest party is the France En Boute. En Boute are considered radical left. They're fiercely
02:43 opposed to this ban, saying this is just, this Muslim garment is a fashion outfit, not a religious
02:50 one. Jean-Luc Mélenchon, their leader, even saying that Muslims are once again targeted by the
02:56 government here in France. But you've also got the socialists and communists who support this ban,
03:01 saying that it's a way to defend laicite, secularism, the French republican model.
03:07 And then you've got the right wing and the far right. As you can expect, they strongly support
03:12 this ban. Marine Le Pen, leader of the French far right, saying that the abaya is the symbol of mass
03:18 immigration in France, that French culture is threatened, that France is being taken over by
03:24 Muslims and immigrants. Clearly, supporters of the ban don't all feel that, don't all believe that.
03:30 Many supporters of this ban say it's a way to defend the French republican, non-religious
03:38 model. And let's finish with a recent poll on this ban. 80% of the French people, according to this
03:44 poll, support the ban in middle and high schools. 70% of French people believe the abaya is a
03:52 religious outfit, but 40% are sceptical that it will actually, this ban, be implemented, that it's
03:59 actually feasible on the ground. And we will hear the court's decision on that later on today.
04:05 Clovis Casali, thanks very much.

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