Sawal Yeh Hai | Maria Memon | ARY News | 8th September 2023
#NayyarBukhari #GeneralElections #PPP #ElectionCommission #PTI #BilawalBhutto #ChairmanPTI
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Nayyar Hussain Bukhari PPP
- Maulana Hafiz Hamdullah Saboor JUIF
PPP wants elections within 90 days: Nayyer Bukhari
Can PPP join hands with Tehreek-e-Insaf in future?
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Nayyar Hussain Bukhari PPP
- Maulana Hafiz Hamdullah Saboor JUIF
PPP wants elections within 90 days: Nayyer Bukhari
Can PPP join hands with Tehreek-e-Insaf in future?
Transcript
00:00 Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Maryam Aiman, and today's topic is, is the People's Party playing good cop or bad cop?
00:16 Today, Bilawal Bhutto Zardari Sahib held a press conference and said that elections are held in 90 days, 100 days, 120 days, elections must be held.
00:24 What is the suspicion, what is the fear of the People's Party? We will talk about this in the first semester of the program.
00:28 After that, the allegation of running away from the elections was put on the People's Party.
00:32 He said that after the vote of no confidence, we had told the People's Party that it should go to the elections, but it is one of the responsibilities of convincing everyone to make a government and bring it here.
00:43 We will talk about this in the second part of the program.
00:45 And in the end, the decisions speak.
00:47 Justice Babar Sattar Sahib not only gave an important decision, but also implemented it and showed it.
00:53 In the last part of the program, the judges will be mentioned, who made their decisions a reality.
00:59 Let's start the program. Bilawal Bhutto Zardari Sahib held a press conference today.
01:03 He said that 90 days, 100 days, 120 days, elections should be held and done as soon as possible.
01:09 As far as elections are concerned, we think 90 days, you think 90 days, that's fine.
01:17 Announce the election date, announce the election schedule. If not 90 days, then 100 days, 120 days, 120 days.
01:25 We have to prepare ourselves, launch our candidate and we appeal to the Election Commission.
01:31 Whenever you have to get 90 to 100, 100 to 120 elections, at least announce the schedule.
01:37 We have to go into our election campaign.
01:40 Bilawal Bhutto Zardari Sahib said this, along with launching his election campaign.
01:43 He will now go to all the places in Sindh and give his speeches and build his election campaign.
01:50 In Maulana Fazl Rehman's yesterday's interview, when he was told that the Pakistan People's Party is running away from the elections,
01:56 a journalist asked Bilawal Bhutto Zardari Sahib, are you running away from the elections?
02:01 He said that he was ready for the elections in May.
02:04 There is no such thing, there are others who are running away.
02:11 The Pakistan People's Party was ready to run for the elections on May 14.
02:16 We ask them this question, who run away from every election.
02:21 Did the Pakistan People's Party really not run away from the elections?
02:26 Because we have seen a positioning from March to April, especially regarding the elections of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Punjab,
02:32 the People's Party has not put its political support anywhere in favour of the elections.
02:38 The governments have fulfilled their caretaker terms.
02:43 I don't know under which constitutional cover they are taking all these decisions in Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
02:49 The caretaker set-up, the questions they are raising on its side, their attitude is repeatedly giving them the confidence that it is not a non-partisan set-up.
02:58 When we used to ask the People's Party at that time, that what is the election, it is not necessary to be there in 90 days,
03:05 what explanations were given at that time, what arguments were given,
03:09 Mr. Khaira even said that if 90 days is not written anywhere in the constitution and if there are any strong reasons for it,
03:14 then the elections can be held further, so new constitutional terms, new techniques.
03:18 Mr. Khaira used a very important word, justification.
03:21 At that time, the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Treasury were saying that there is no security and there is no money for the elections.
03:27 If this was justified at that time, then if before the elections, the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Treasury come up with some other justifications,
03:37 then how will you be able to hold elections in the mutual agreement after crossing this constitutional period?
03:43 The second thing that Bilawal Bhutto Zardari said, because the People's Party is mentioned in the cases,
03:47 that the cases have been forgiven, the cases have been forgiven, that is why they came to power.
03:51 He clarified that our cases have not been forgiven, others' cases have been forgiven.
03:56 Listen to what Bilawal said.
03:57 As far as the cases are concerned, in the last 16 months,
04:01 perhaps other political parties have somehow made themselves self-respectful on the cases of their politicians.
04:14 The focus of the Pakistan People's Party was on its work, not on its cases.
04:18 And the same cases are still there.
04:21 So Bilawal says that the cases are still there, nothing has been forgiven.
04:25 A document was presented in the Supreme Court in the NAAB Tarameem case,
04:29 and lists of all the cases that have been forgiven by different people have been given.
04:34 In this, clearly, if you go to the case of Mr. Zardari on No. 14, then it is present.
04:39 It has been included in the list where the cases that are being affected by the NAAB amendment.
04:44 In addition, there has been a lot of reporting in the newspapers.
04:48 We can show you a list of newspapers in which the names of the people who are being forgiven by the NAAB amendments are being mentioned.
04:55 PTI is also included in this, by the way.
04:57 The President of the United Nations will also benefit from this.
04:59 PTI will also benefit.
05:00 And all these people are there, we are showing you, in which there is PMLN, People's Party, JUI.
05:05 All these cases have had a good, far-reaching effect from NAAB Tarameem.
05:11 So this thing is also not seen to be correct.
05:14 About the people's party, People's Party said that we did not know that when the people's party will be formed,
05:21 then the elections will go ahead.
05:23 What was the discussion on this?
05:25 And what they are saying is that today the date of the election should have been given without the people's party.
05:30 Mr. Bilawal, first let's listen to this.
05:32 Then let's talk about the change in the principal position on this.
05:35 According to the Pakistan People's Party, the elections should be held in 90 days.
05:41 According to the other parties and the election commission, the elections should be held after the good eliminations.
05:48 It is correct that this was the principal position of the People's Party.
05:53 And they have been talking about this for the past year and a half.
05:56 Then in August, God knows what happened, that Murad Ali Shah must have decided this with the consultation of the party,
06:02 that they will vote if the reservations are removed.
06:04 And they admitted this on the show of Mr. Badami.
06:08 After that we saw that there is a meeting of the Council of Common Interest.
06:23 A picture of that comes out and it was a picture taken in a very pleasant environment.
06:28 Many experts raised questions on it, that how can two caretakers CMs take part in such a meeting?
06:34 Does their vote count?
06:36 Can such a thing be challenged in court?
06:41 So many people had this agreement, across the board almost, that yes, this thing can be challenged in court if someone wants to do it.
06:47 And there are many questions about the health of the two votes in this meeting.
06:52 Anyway, the People's Party clearly voted in favor of the restrictions.
06:56 Then they came out and said that they did not know that the restrictions will be there.
07:04 Now, did they not consult their experts?
07:10 And if they had consulted, then they had not challenged this during this time.
07:14 On any forum, the People's Party, we are listening to their political statements and principles,
07:19 but technically they have not challenged this.
07:21 But anyway, today, Mr. Bilawal's most important statement is that he feels that someone is trying to bring a puppet.
07:29 And this should not happen. This has happened in the past.
07:32 And those who talk about extending the puppet system, he warned them today.
07:38 There is a clear message for them too. Those who make puppets, those who are in search of puppets, those who want to impose puppets on that country,
07:51 have done it in the past and maybe even today they will think that we want to do this in the future.
07:57 You should also be warned, the people of Pakistan, that such experiments on us should stop now.
08:06 Let the people of Pakistan make their own decisions.
08:10 So, why did Mr. Bilawal need to hold this press conference today?
08:14 Is there any threat to the People's Party that the elections may not be held in 120 days?
08:18 Our Mr. Syed Nair Hussain Bukhari, former chairman of the Senate of Pakistan is present.
08:22 Thank you very much, Mr. Bukhari, for joining us.
08:23 Today, Bilawal's speech was very fiery.
08:26 He spoke very directly, and also spoke indirectly.
08:29 The two or three things that stood out for me,
08:31 first of all, he said that 90, 100, 120, whatever is possible for you right now,
08:39 get elections done within this and announce the election schedule.
08:43 Why did he have to say this?
08:44 Because in February, you may have concerns about the elections that the elections may not be held.
08:51 Because the other parties will prepare according to February.
08:54 Thank you. You spoke in great detail on your intro and raised a lot of issues.
09:03 And I would have understood if you had raised the issue one by one, I would have responded to them.
09:10 Anyway, I will respond to the issues you have raised.
09:15 The first thing that Mr. Bilawal said,
09:17 undoubtedly, the Pakistan People's Party thinks that the solution to the problems of this country is not with the caretakers.
09:25 The solution to the problems of this country is with the elected government.
09:29 And the chosen representatives have the right to govern this country, the people.
09:34 The opinions they use in their right, through elections.
09:39 So, the Pakistan People's Party believes that the elections are constitutional provision in 90 days.
09:45 We are standing with it. We are standing with its constitutional provision.
09:49 But if you think that Chairman said that it is not 90 days, it is 100 days or 110 days.
09:56 Obviously, we have a position even today that in these circumstances, there is no need for delimitation.
10:04 Because the constitution overrides subordinate legislation.
10:10 They are delimiting under the Election Act 2017. And it is being delimited under Section 17.
10:17 This is definitely provided in the constitution.
10:20 If you read Article 51, then the number of seats are given in it, which is sub-article 1.
10:27 In sub-article 3, there is allocation of provinces.
10:31 So, in sub-article 5, the representation of the population will be given on the basis of census, which will be last published, officially published.
10:41 So, on 5th August, there is a CCI meeting.
10:47 And obviously, this is an understanding. In the CCI meeting, the Chief Minister of the People's Party, Sen was present.
10:56 So, he knew that the constitutional provision will override.
11:02 Because if you increase or decrease the number of seats, or if you re-shuffle it amongst the provinces also,
11:09 that too cannot be done without constitutional amendment.
11:14 It was rightly understood that constitutional amendment cannot be done.
11:18 To do constitutional amendment, you need two-thirds majority of both houses.
11:23 So, obviously, our understanding was that elections will be held on the basis of these delimitations.
11:30 And that is why they voted.
11:34 But Mr. Bukhari, if we go a little further, this is a question related to this.
11:38 So, if you think that there will not be delimitation, there will be elections, then you demand 90 days.
11:44 You said 120 days.
11:46 So, what are you giving leverage for if you think that there will not be any more delimitation in the elections?
11:54 We stick to that position.
11:57 This is an ancillary statement of Chairman Sir.
12:01 Ultimately, the solution to the problem is that elections should be held.
12:05 And the representatives of the elected representatives should have power in this country.
12:09 Whether they vote for anyone, even for any party, but we do not want this caretaker to rule the country for an unlimited period.
12:17 Sir, why did you have to say this, Mr. Bukhari?
12:20 Do you think that we are moving towards unlimited rule because the date of February is coming, right?
12:24 PMLN also gives this.
12:26 Even there might be some apprehension in the mind of my chairman.
12:31 He can give the clarification of this.
12:33 And he said, but we think that we are standing with the constitution.
12:37 And the constitutional provisions, which are their requirements, should be fulfilled.
12:43 Sir, he says 90 days.
12:44 I thought because Tariq-e-Insaf is saying 90 days, you will also say 90 days.
12:48 Tariq-e-Insaf talks about going to court, you will go to court that it is not happening in 90 days.
12:52 The leverage you have given that 100, 120, whenever it is, it seems like you have a risk that the elections may not happen.
13:00 That's why you are saying, do it now.
13:02 See, that's why I said that there might be some apprehensions in the knowledge of the chairman.
13:07 Obviously, and the chairman can give the explanation of that.
13:10 I cannot give.
13:11 Because that is not my statement.
13:13 So, this is a very clear thing.
13:15 And on that, because there is a insistence of the election commission, there is a controversy between the election commission and presidency also.
13:22 And that too is a matter of sub judice in the Supreme Court.
13:26 And on that too, there can be a discussion.
13:29 You said something which took the name of Asim Ali Zardari that he is a beneficiary of this new amendment.
13:37 What is the beneficiary?
13:38 Has he been acquitted?
13:40 No, no, sir, the only thing is this.
13:42 The list of cases that were filed in it.
13:44 Listen to me.
13:45 Yes.
13:46 No, listen to me.
13:47 You did it in the list.
13:48 Tell us that you said that the list is this, the list is this, that the cases have been transferred.
13:54 From one forum to another forum.
13:56 We have not been acquitted.
13:58 Someone else must have been acquitted.
14:00 The chairman has mentioned.
14:02 Has anyone of ours been acquitted?
14:05 Has our speaker of the assembly been acquitted?
14:09 Siraj Durrani.
14:11 Or has anyone of our other cases been acquitted by any court?
14:15 The only thing is that from one forum to another forum, cases are to be filed through that amendment.
14:22 So we did not get any benefit that we have taken acquittal.
14:29 I wanted to clarify this a little bit.
14:31 This should be clarified now.
14:33 It is not an acquittal.
14:35 Sir, you have told the technical point.
14:37 Secondly, you asked a question that the People's Party election is running or ran at that time.
14:48 Not at all.
14:49 You must remember that the MNS of PTI has entered the resignation.
14:59 Do you recall National Assembly?
15:02 And then when the speaker accepted those resignations, then the Election Commission gave a schedule.
15:10 For elections.
15:12 So Pakistan People's Party does not run from elections.
15:15 Pakistan People's Party has filled its candidates.
15:19 Our people have filed the nomination papers.
15:22 Our people have requested for the symbol.
15:25 But the PDM has back out.
15:28 We were in alliance with the PDM in the government.
15:32 But we are not a part of the PDM.
15:34 And ultimately, the former Prime Minister and all of them requested my leadership that
15:40 if the PDM is back out for elections, then you should not contest.
15:45 So, because we were sitting in alliance, majority was back out, so ultimately the majority was in the list.
15:52 But we did not run from elections.
15:54 I want to bring this knowledge to you for the sake of record.
15:59 That the rest of the people ran from the by-elections of the National Assembly.
16:02 So, what happened in Punjab and Khairabad Pakhtunkhwa?
16:05 The elections there were not a regular responsibility.
16:14 Because the leave was given at that time.
16:17 Today, taking advantage of that, if new justifications have come,
16:21 the threats you have, you said there will be some apprehensions, you cannot talk about it.
16:25 Where are those apprehensions coming from?
16:27 If it is legally, legally, if there is scope, then how will it be?
16:32 The example of Punjab and Khairabad Pakhtunkhwa elections will be put in front, right sir?
16:36 Look, what happened in the past, we wanted to contest the elections on 14th May.
16:44 But the Election Commission did not want to contest.
16:48 If the Election Commission did not want to contest, then where would we contest in the air?
16:52 But the Election Commission did not force us to contest.
16:55 Why did the Election Commission not contest? On whose input, on the basis of whose ministries report, did the Election Commission not contest?
17:02 That is very clear. The Election Commission is on record.
17:07 In that, their security situation was there.
17:10 Yes.
17:11 Their Defense Ministry was also there.
17:14 Khwaja Asif had it sir, against PM LN.
17:16 Yes.
17:17 And the Ministry of Finance was also with PM LN.
17:19 Then, the Ministry of Finance, you can see my clarification.
17:25 The Ministry of Finance said, to what I understand, that in the budget of 2022-23, there was no allocation of elections.
17:36 Because they were never expecting elections.
17:40 Elections were expected after June 2023.
17:45 So, the allocation of the new fiscal year 2023-24 is now in the budget passed.
17:52 So, they presented a response.
17:54 But it was between the two institutions now.
17:58 One was the Ministry of Defense, the other was the Ministry of Finance and the Election Commission.
18:01 So, the Election Commission prevails.
18:03 So, sir, has the constitution been violated or not?
18:06 K.P. and if we are in Punjab, elections.
18:08 Till now, the government is in limbo.
18:10 If it has been violated, then why has the Supreme Court stepped over it?
18:16 Why didn't they take cognizance?
18:18 Is there any order that they have violated?
18:21 So, let's not discuss the past.
18:24 Let's move forward now.
18:25 Sir, the problem with the past is that it is very much irrelevant today.
18:29 Because when the elections were held, the same institutions were there.
18:32 Now, they are standing there and you are worried about the election.
18:36 This is a matter of 6 months ago.
18:38 It is not that far.
18:39 And the future is being planned after that.
18:42 So, that is very much relevant.
18:44 You can assume or you can speculate.
18:48 But the point is this.
18:50 There are many cases still pending in the Supreme Court.
18:53 There are many cases still pending.
18:59 The case of K.Tucker government and their amendments and giving them powers.
19:06 Ultimately, the Supreme Court has gone out.
19:10 Now, the Sindh Council is also going.
19:12 So, all the cases are pending.
19:14 But my point of view is that the Pakistan People's Party is not responsible
19:19 if the Election Commission does not hold elections.
19:22 If it is responsible, then the Election Commission is responsible.
19:25 Or is it the responsibility of the Supreme Court of Pakistan?
19:28 Sir, you put your political weight in the lap of those who did not want to hold elections.
19:34 The People's Party is very important.
19:35 If it had said that elections are going to be held, then it could have fought for elections.
19:39 You did not do that.
19:40 You put your weight in the lap of those who did not want to hold elections.
19:44 This can be your point of view.
19:48 But my point of view is that I am putting it in front of you.
19:51 I am talking very straight.
19:54 I am asking you, is it the responsibility of the Election Commission or the People's Party?
19:59 Who is responsible?
20:01 Or is it the responsibility of the Government to implement the order?
20:04 Sir, it was the responsibility of the Government to implement the order.
20:07 You are not talking about them.
20:09 You are not talking about the Supreme Court.
20:11 You are not talking about the Election Commission.
20:13 You are targeting only the People's Party.
20:15 Sir, I am talking about the People's Party because
20:17 I am asking you questions as a result of Maulana's statements and Bilawal's press conference.
20:22 It is not targeted. It is a question.
20:24 If you are answering it, you are clarifying it.
20:26 Maulana Fazlur Rehman says that after the vote of no confidence, he wanted to go to the elections.
20:31 The People's Party convinced everyone and we came to this government.
20:35 See, the news was that what I saw, which is published in the newspaper also.
20:43 Maulana says that the People's Party gave the vote of no confidence.
20:47 Otherwise, the elections would have been held.
20:49 I request you to correct this record.
20:52 On 8th March, 2022, we were in Long March.
20:56 Chairman said that he was with us.
20:59 We were coming to the procession.
21:01 And we were to reach by 8th evening.
21:05 That day, who went to move the vote of no confidence?
21:08 Maulana Sahib went.
21:11 He submitted the resolution.
21:17 We owned it.
21:22 Maulana Sahib says that he had four ministers.
21:28 If he wanted to go to the elections, he would have said.
21:32 I will tell you one more thing.
21:34 He was a government with a very thin majority.
21:38 There were only 174 or 176 members.
21:42 Maulana Sahib had 14 or 15 MLAs.
21:46 Maulana Sahib said that he withdrew his support.
21:50 The government would have collapsed.
21:52 Even four or five members of Maulana Sahib said that they withdrew their support.
21:59 The government would have collapsed.
22:02 Now, at a related stage, after thought, these statements are coming.
22:06 We were the second largest party in that.
22:10 But the government could not run with us.
22:15 If other parties were not with us.
22:18 If one party had four or five votes,
22:22 If it was serious that there would be elections,
22:25 It would have withdrawn its support.
22:27 Automatically, the assembly would have been dissolved.
22:29 Because the majority would not have been obtained.
22:32 So, sir, did not the JUI suggest that after the vote of no confidence,
22:37 Go to the elections.
22:39 But the People's Party has convinced that the government should be made.
22:43 In hindsight, do you think this decision was right?
22:46 And secondly, did the JUI suggest that the government should not be taken and should go to the elections?
22:53 I am not privy to those meetings.
22:57 So, I will not comment on it.
22:59 But I want to tell you a simple thing.
23:02 Four ministries were with the JUI.
23:06 Maulana Sahib's son was a very important minister.
23:10 He also had the view of Haj and Waqf.
23:13 So, if their intention was that MQM,
23:17 MQM also had six members.
23:19 If Maulana and he had withdrawn,
23:21 They would have become thirty.
23:22 If these thirty people had insisted on the elections,
23:25 Then Mia, Nawaz, Sharif or the People's Party could have resisted.
23:29 They did not have any option.
23:31 They did not have numbers.
23:33 So, how could the government continue?
23:35 So, this is afterthought.
23:37 This mock-up is being taken at a very belated stage.
23:39 The People's Party did not want this.
23:41 Sir, what is the point of this statement?
23:44 There should be some political angle to this statement.
23:47 Why would the JUI want to give this statement at this political moment?
23:51 See, the basic thing is that this question is from them.
23:57 Yes, we will ask them.
23:58 After this, we will have their representatives.
24:00 But what do you think?
24:01 Then ask them what is your intention now?
24:05 But we understand one thing that we said on day one.
24:08 That we are in an alliance.
24:11 We will contest the elections on our principles, ideology and manifesto.
24:17 We did not say that we will have an alliance after the government leaves.
24:25 This is a day to day affair.
24:28 If someone talks about an alliance tomorrow, we will examine that.
24:31 But so far, we will contest the elections against each other.
24:35 We are contesting parties.
24:38 Sir, you said that there are agreements between the People's Party and Tehreek-e-Insaf.
24:48 So, can the People's Party and PTI come close to each other in the future?
24:54 Is this a possibility?
24:56 See, I do not see any such move in the near future.
25:03 Obviously, and this is not our intention.
25:06 We have said this categorically before.
25:08 But if you recall in 1977, the parties that were against us,
25:15 and those parties also said that we will hang Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto on the bridge of Kuala.
25:21 But there was a stage when in 1981-82, the MRD was formed.
25:27 And those forces were in the MRD and the Pakistan People's Party was also there.
25:31 So, there is a lot of discussion in politics.
25:36 With an exception, there was a party that was in power,
25:40 whose Prime Minister was not ready to shake hands.
25:43 He did not want to talk.
25:45 He was a thief, a dacoit.
25:47 So, that was not a political attitude.
25:50 Politicians never close the doors of negotiations.
25:54 But at the moment, we have no intention to go along with them.
26:01 At the moment, we have no contact.
26:03 We have no understanding.
26:05 I am clarifying categorically that the Pakistan People's Party will fight the elections on its own.
26:12 And we are not ready to take anyone's head.
26:15 Right. Thank you very much, Nayyar Bukhari was with us.
26:18 He said that there is a possibility that the PTI and P-Party will come together in the future.
26:24 And he said that he will not take anyone's head.
26:27 And it is a possible policy.
26:29 But in the near future, he does not see any closeness in the Tariq-e-Insaf-e-People's Party.
26:34 We will go on the break.
26:35 When we come back, we will have Hamdullah J.O.I.F with us.
26:38 Why is she saying that after taking advantage of 16 years of power,
26:42 we should not have taken power?
26:44 Is this a new political wisdom?
26:47 Welcome back.
26:49 The head of J-O-I-F and the head of PDM-Ittihad, Maulana Fazur Rehman,
26:54 spoke to the journalists in Lahore yesterday.
26:57 And he said something unique yesterday.
26:59 He said that the current situation has been ruined by the People's Party.
27:03 And how?
27:04 Yesterday, he said to the journalists that MQM, Akhtar Mengal and others
27:09 have decided to hold elections by chance.
27:11 But the People's Party has changed its decision at the last moment.
27:14 And it has emphasized on the way of bringing in the people's confidence.
27:17 If the People's Party had not changed its decision,
27:19 the elections would have been held at that time.
27:21 At the same time, Maulana Fazur Rehman is also saying that
27:23 it is very difficult to campaign.
27:25 When he goes to his area,
27:28 there is no easy time to hold elections.
27:33 Bilawal Bhutto was asked a question in his press conference today.
27:39 And he answered this question very well.
27:42 He said that he would still say that the elections should be held on the 90th day.
27:46 I would like to give a statement to Maulana Fazur Rehman.
27:51 The Pakistan People's Party was ready for the elections even before.
27:56 And the Pakistan People's Party was ready to hold the elections in 60 days.
28:01 And is ready to hold the elections on the 90th day as per the constitution.
28:05 Hafiz Abdullah, the central translator of the PDM, is with us.
28:09 Thank you very much.
28:12 Thank you very much for joining us, Hafiz.
28:14 Let's go step by step.
28:15 First of all, Maulana Fazur Rehman was the head of the PDM.
28:19 PMLN also wanted to go towards the elections.
28:22 The other parties were also inclined towards Maulana's election.
28:26 What was the convincing logic of the People's Party?
28:30 Because of which all these parties,
28:32 their collective wisdom was defeated in front of the argument of the People's Party.
28:36 And you people formed a government and came to this point.
28:39 In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful.
28:47 Look, Maria Bibi, there are many things that cannot be said or done on the media.
28:54 Such important decisions were always made between the leaders of the PDM.
29:02 And the People's Party and ANP, because they were not a part of the PDM in the end,
29:07 so, Mian Nawaz Sharif, Mian Shaba Sharif, Asifa Ali Zardari, Maulana Fazur Rehman,
29:14 the leaders of the parties, these important decisions were made among themselves.
29:21 So, now, what were the details in this regard?
29:27 I do not know about those details.
29:30 One thing is that when the decision was made by the PDM that we will go towards the International Trust,
29:37 so, basically the position of the PDM was that,
29:42 first the PDM was not ready for the International Trust.
29:46 Then when the PDM was ready, the People's Party, Asifa Ali Zardari, came to Maulana Sahib himself.
29:53 You may remember, he went to Chaudhry Shijrat and other parties.
29:57 Then when the agreement was made that the trust should be prepared,
30:01 then the decision was that we will go to the elections immediately.
30:05 As soon as we go to the government, we will have to go to the elections in at least 3 months or 120 days.
30:13 So, perhaps Maulana Sahib, about these two phases,
30:18 he said that in both the phases, we respected the opinion of the People's Party.
30:27 It is not that the People's Party was against us.
30:31 We took a democratic path and respected their opinion.
30:37 And the People's Party, perhaps, was adamant that we have to keep the government in place after making it.
30:45 Why? This is a common sense thing.
30:50 The People's Party was in power in Sindh.
30:53 You tell me, 16 months ago, was the People's Party ready to end the government in Sindh?
31:01 It was not ready.
31:02 So, when it was not ready, then to say that we were ready for the elections at that time,
31:07 as Abhi Bilawal Sahib said,
31:09 this is against common sense, common understanding and common mentality that your government is in Sindh.
31:15 But Hafiz Sahib, this point came to you.
31:17 This point came to you when your party, your Jamaat, had an understanding that perhaps we should go to the elections after 3 months.
31:25 What is the change after that?
31:27 And the People's Party went, the talk between the leaders is happening,
31:32 but there must be some thinking process in the Jamaat.
31:34 Your recommendation was that we should go to the elections.
31:37 Your leaders say that we are not going, so there must be some information here as to why we did not go.
31:43 What was the reason behind it? What were the political issues?
31:46 Look, Maria, you are a senior journalist, an anchor person, you know everything.
31:57 Then what was the logic?
31:59 The logic was that when there was a debate, it happened again and again,
32:03 and it happened again and again.
32:07 Because Maulana Fadlur Rahman Sahib was the head of the PDM,
32:10 he was the leader of the Jamaat Ulama Islam,
32:13 he never tried to impose his opinion on other parties.
32:20 He always respected the opinion of the people, that is, the opinion of the majority.
32:27 So when the opinion of the People's Party was that it was possible that other parties also had an opinion,
32:32 then Maulana Sahib decided that he would run the government.
32:39 So what was the compulsion?
32:41 The compulsion was that on the one hand, the economy of your state was a big challenge for you.
32:49 On the other hand, the politics of the parties.
32:52 You see for yourself that today all the parties, including the Jamaat Ulama Islam,
32:59 are saying that they have caused losses to their vote bank for the state due to inflation.
33:08 So why did I take this loss? What did I get?
33:12 Sir, in hindsight, if you look back, was this the right decision to take the government or should it have gone into the collection?
33:22 You look back in hindsight, was it the right political decision to become a government entity?
33:28 No, no, no.
33:30 Look, you can say that if you had gone into the collection, this might have been the right decision.
33:40 But in this regard, the right decision was that your state was in danger of bankruptcy.
33:45 You had two problems. One was the loss of my politics, and the other was the loss of my country and state.
33:51 The agreement that was made with the IMF was broken.
33:58 The damage that was done to the economy of the country from the drama of Panama to the IMF agreement,
34:04 and who were the partners in this damage?
34:08 Who were the PTA chairmen and the administrators at the front?
34:12 Now everyone is giving testimony against each other.
34:15 So they were responsible for the destruction. When we said that we had to save our politics or save our state,
34:24 we at least saved our country from becoming Sri Lanka and making it a default.
34:30 But Mr. Hafiz, now after 16 months, PMLN says that it was not our government.
34:39 People's Party says that we were a part of the decision, but it was not our government.
34:43 The JOIF says that if the election had been held at that time, it would have been difficult for us to campaign today.
34:48 Sir, at this time, there is no one ready to bear the burden of those decisions.
34:51 They are putting all the responsibility on each other.
34:53 Now all these statements have been given this month.
34:57 I am not going to back.
35:00 No, no, no, the point is that if the People's Party says that they were not involved in the campaign,
35:08 I think it is a pity.
35:10 They are not involved in the campaign, they say that it was not their decision.
35:12 It was not their government, it was the government of everyone.
35:15 I am saying that, now give me a chance to speak.
35:21 I am saying that the decision was not only of PMLN, but it was the decision of all those parties who were involved in the government.
35:29 I am saying that if the JOIF says that it was only the decision of PMLN,
35:34 it is fraud, it is deception with a partner.
35:38 Therefore, all the decisions were made through consultation.
35:42 The PMLN is responsible, the People's Party is responsible.
35:45 The People's Party and the PMLN are responsible, all the decisions made by the government,
35:50 the JOIF and all the parties that were involved in the government.
35:55 Now, if a party is saying that I was not involved in the campaign, it is wrong.
36:00 If the PMLN says that I was not in the government alone,
36:04 you were not in the government alone, but you were in the government.
36:08 The Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam was not in the government alone,
36:12 the Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam was also a party with 13 parties.
36:15 All the decisions were made through consultation.
36:18 Who was harmed? My politics, your politics. Why?
36:23 For the country, for the state, to save the state.
36:26 So, I say that everyone should take this responsibility.
36:31 I don't think it should be put on each other. It is not appropriate.
36:35 And in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, especially,
36:37 when Mr. Moolana says that we are not able to campaign,
36:39 what are the reasons behind this?
36:41 Are you talking about security concerns?
36:43 Or does he think that politically, the justice of the last 16 months has been taken full advantage of?
36:47 Because of the activity of the Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam?
36:49 No. No, no, no.
36:53 I still say that in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, the real position, the real Jamaat,
36:58 is mostly of the Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam, if we talk about votes.
37:02 But Mr. Moolana spoke about peace and security.
37:06 He said that, look, in Bajawad,
37:09 the Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam was attacked at the Workers' Convention.
37:12 Only 75, 75 of our workers were martyred in that.
37:16 And before that, for three years,
37:19 19 of our responsible Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam,
37:23 along with them, the tribes of Muathabareen,
37:26 the youth, the old, the scholars, the tribal leaders,
37:31 they became the target.
37:33 In Bajawad as well as in the entire region, in the entire region.
37:37 So that is why Mr. Moolana said that it is difficult for me to run an election campaign there.
37:43 So sir, because of security reasons, in the election campaign,
37:47 you cannot say that there is a security concern.
37:50 Yes sir, because of security concerns, are you looking at a delay in the election?
37:54 Because we are looking at the security conditions of the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
37:57 Are you foreseeing this?
37:59 I will say one thing. No, I say that the election will be in 90 days as per the constitution.
38:09 Who said that it will not be in 90 days? Today Bilawal said it as well.
38:12 But Bilawal said that suppose it is not in 90 days, then it will be in 120 days.
38:16 If it is not in 120 days, then announce the election. When will the election be?
38:20 Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam is saying that the election will be in 90 days.
38:24 If it is not possible in 90 days, then when is it?
38:26 In 120 days, in February, then announce it. Jamiat-e-Ulema-e-Islam is also saying the same.
38:30 Sir, why is there no announcement?
38:32 What difference is there between me and Bilawal?
38:34 In the first party and in the opinion of Maulana Sahib, what difference is there?
38:37 Sir, then the difference is between Tehreek-e-Insaaf and you.
38:39 They are also saying that announce the election.
38:41 No one is doing it. Why is the election not being announced?
38:43 No, no, there is a big difference between Tehreek-e-Insaaf and us.
38:49 Tehreek-e-Insaaf has announced the election from that time.
38:53 When the government of Tehreek-e-Insaaf was released on 9 April 2022,
38:58 they have been doing the same since then.
39:00 Leave them. They kicked the government of Punjab,
39:04 kicked Khyber, kicked Kashmir, kicked their own people,
39:08 kicked outsiders, kicked the state.
39:11 Leave PTI.
39:13 I say that if you talk about news distribution today,
39:17 you should not delay the election in terms of security.
39:21 The election should be on time.
39:23 If you talk about restrictions,
39:25 no doubt, the restrictions should be done,
39:27 after that the election should be on time.
39:29 Thank you very much, Hafiz Abdullah Sahib,
39:31 the central translator was present.
39:33 He was saying that no one can get rid of this responsibility,
39:36 neither People's Party, nor PMLN, nor JUIF.
39:39 The previous government was everyone's government.
39:42 The political burden of its decisions will have to be lifted by every community.
39:46 And if anyone wants to distance themselves from those decisions before the election,
39:49 then it will not be possible.
39:51 We will go on break when we come back,
39:53 how strong judges make their decisions.
39:56 We saw a glimpse of this this week.
39:58 We will talk to you after the break.
39:59 Welcome back.
40:03 There is no law in the state government,
40:05 there is illegality, there is no law,
40:07 there is nothing to do with it at the moment,
40:09 but there are some judges who make their decisions.
40:12 This week we saw that on 3 MPO arrests,
40:14 the police and the Islambad administration were found guilty of insulting the court.
40:19 And this was such a bold step taken by Justice Babar Sattar.
40:23 He wrote in his order that the matter of insulting the court was going on here,
40:26 yet you kept issuing MPO orders.
40:28 This case is six months in prison, you also stay in jail for some time.
40:31 You should also know how others stay in jail.
40:34 Under 3 MPO arrests, Justice Babar Sattar
40:36 indicted Deputy Commissioner of Islamabad Irfan Nawaz Mewan,
40:39 SSP Operation SHO Margala Police Station,
40:41 and SP Farooq Buttar.
40:43 Justice Babar Sattar also indicted DC Islamabad
40:45 and SSP Operation Malik Jameel Zafar.
40:50 Before this, Justice Babar Sattar has given very harsh remarks
40:54 regarding the case of Shehryar Afridi and Shandana Gulzar.
40:57 He said that the court gives a written order,
40:59 and then a new MPO order is issued.
41:02 The report of the special branch is just a joke.
41:04 The arrest was carried out later and the arrest was carried out earlier.
41:07 How can a person who is in jail, incite people?
41:10 In May 2022, we saw that even before this,
41:13 when the arrest was being carried out in the case of Sheri Mazari Sahiba,
41:16 a strong judge not only implemented his decision,
41:20 but also enforced it very strictly.
41:23 On 22nd May, Sheri Mazari Sahiba was arrested.
41:27 We saw that she was sent to the female police officer.
41:31 And it was said that as per law and the request of the Anti-Corruption Department,
41:35 she was arrested.
41:37 All the reports are meaningless.
41:40 Then we saw that Atar Minnala gives a very strong order.
41:45 He says that under which law was she arrested?
41:48 This is the case of the Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court.
41:50 Was the arrest with the permission of the Speaker?
41:52 Remember that at that time, she was the MNA of Sheri Mazari Sahiba.
41:54 Can someone come from another province and arrest without the permission of the Speaker?
41:58 Should the court issue a notice of insult to the Chief Commissioner?
42:01 When there will be no respect for the law, then all this will happen.
42:05 We saw the case of Atar Minnala of Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court.
42:07 And we saw that Sheri Mazari Sahiba was released.
42:10 So, the strong judges can make their strict decisions through their judgment, action and orders.
42:16 These examples are available.
42:18 The program is over.
42:19 Don't forget to give your feedback.
42:20 Take care.