This week Chris Deacy is joined by Krysia Waldock to discuss the films; The Great St. Trinian's Train Robbery, Encanto, Les Parapluies de Cherbourg, and Barbie
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00:00 (dramatic music)
00:02 - Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club.
00:15 I'm Chris Deasy and each week,
00:16 I'll be joined by a guest from Kent
00:19 to dive deep into the impact
00:20 certain films have had on their life.
00:23 Each guest will reflect on the films
00:25 which have meant the most to them over the years.
00:27 And every week, there will be a Kent Film Trivia
00:30 where we quiz you at home about a film
00:33 that has a connection to the county.
00:35 And now, let me introduce you to my guest for this week.
00:39 She has a background in languages
00:42 and is currently working for a doctorate
00:44 in the area of religion, autism, disability,
00:47 and people who are marginalized.
00:49 She grew up in Medway and has a great interest
00:52 in local, social, and cultural history.
00:54 She is Chrysha Waldock.
00:56 - Thank you.
00:57 - Great to have you, Chrysha.
00:58 - Thank you.
00:59 - And we're gonna find out which is your first chosen film
01:02 and what it means to you.
01:03 And you've chosen "The Great Citrinian's Train Robbery."
01:07 - I have.
01:08 - Why have you chosen this film, Chrysha?
01:10 - I picked this film as, in a sum, it's great fun.
01:14 Lots of slapstick comedy.
01:17 And it's one that I was introduced to by my nan.
01:20 So it's quite an old film.
01:22 And I was introduced to it one evening
01:25 when I was quite upset stuff had gone on at school.
01:27 And my mum and nan actually showed me this film
01:29 to help me calm down.
01:30 And it was actually such great fun.
01:32 There's no seriousness in it.
01:33 Yet it's also so pertinent in the messages.
01:36 It can actually satirize the government
01:38 and the way we do education and all that sort of stuff.
01:40 So it's so, it has a kind of good memory for me,
01:44 attached to it for me.
01:45 But it also has this underlying satire
01:48 at all the people in charge,
01:50 which I think is just so fantastic.
01:52 - There's always that wonderful sort of social inversion
01:54 because the girls take over effect.
01:57 - Yeah.
01:57 - There's the carry on films did similar things
01:59 in that era as well.
02:01 But as you were growing up,
02:02 was this a film that really impacted on you,
02:05 particularly, for example, as a teenager?
02:07 - Probably less so as a teenager,
02:09 but it's definitely one that has shaped me
02:12 in terms of it's given me kind of
02:14 probably what I would call my first favorite film.
02:17 'Cause I didn't really have any favorite films
02:19 before that point.
02:20 And although I grew up watching lots of Disney
02:22 and lots of really interesting and fun films,
02:25 there was nothing quite like this one.
02:27 And what I quite like about the whole "St Trinian" series
02:30 is that there's obviously the original block of four,
02:32 they've got the 1980s one, which I haven't seen.
02:34 And then I've got the more modern ones.
02:36 And each one is so distinctly different,
02:38 yet has a very clear thread running through it.
02:42 So you know what you're entering into.
02:44 There isn't this ambiguity of what you're gonna get.
02:46 You know what you're gonna get,
02:48 but you don't know what you're gonna get.
02:49 - And it's something about the time
02:50 in which this was made.
02:52 - Yeah.
02:52 - Because you've got that sort of idea
02:53 of the social hierarchies.
02:56 This was sort of post-war.
02:57 But the sense here that there was something changing
03:00 and represented by the younger generation.
03:03 I think there's something timeless in that.
03:05 - Yes, and I think certainly when we look at
03:08 how power is inverted, I think that's really powerful.
03:10 Especially when you look at the kind of background
03:13 that I have and the research that I'm doing,
03:15 it's probably not a surprise that I like something
03:17 where the kids go and take over
03:18 and destroy everything effectively.
03:20 - Yeah.
03:21 And do you find in that as well
03:22 that when it comes to a film like this,
03:25 that it really impacts on the way that you think,
03:27 the way that you research?
03:28 Does it sort of give you a glimpse into the world
03:31 and that's something that you really want to harness
03:33 and to write on?
03:35 - I think probably less so in my PhDs.
03:37 I've probably got to do,
03:37 there's more kind of things you have to do
03:39 and things like that.
03:40 But I think in terms of what it says about kind of me,
03:43 my interests and my outlook,
03:45 it's the fact that one of my favourite films I've picked
03:48 is from 1966.
03:50 Probably quite telling rather than me picking something
03:53 much more modern.
03:54 - Yeah.
03:55 And when was the first time that you watched this?
03:58 - So I would have watched this probably in 2003.
04:01 So about 20 years ago when I first started secondary school.
04:04 - Yeah.
04:05 And is this something that you watched on your own?
04:07 Is it something that you would enjoy watching
04:09 with family or with friends?
04:10 - Yes, to with family and friends.
04:12 'Cause I think first time I watched it,
04:14 I was with my mum and my nan.
04:15 And I think certainly a lot of the older films
04:17 that I watched I was introduced to by my nan.
04:20 We used to live with my nan.
04:22 We moved in with her when I was about 10.
04:26 And so I kind of saw things that she liked
04:29 and she watched as well.
04:31 - Yeah.
04:32 And I always find this a really intriguing bit
04:34 with a film like this because there are some films
04:36 that I would never watch with my family.
04:38 - Yeah.
04:39 - And there are sort of films that I would watch on my own.
04:40 I'd be happy to tell people afterwards,
04:42 but you feel always a bit awkward, a bit embarrassed.
04:45 - Yeah.
04:45 - I think there's a trillion films as well.
04:46 - Yeah.
04:47 - And it always would have felt to me
04:48 like there's something going on in the film.
04:50 - Yeah.
04:51 - Which says something about what it's like
04:52 to be of that particular age.
04:54 - Yeah.
04:54 - And it says something about growing up.
04:55 It says something about puberty, about adolescence.
04:57 - Yeah.
04:58 - And also about having that sort of sense of saying,
05:00 come on world, let me take you on.
05:02 - Yeah.
05:03 - Is that something that resonated with you?
05:05 - A little bit, but I think also it was more the kind of,
05:08 I think what mainly stuck with me was the fun
05:10 and the rebellion and not doing what I'm done by the rules.
05:14 'Cause I've always been a bit like Tigger.
05:16 I am the only one.
05:17 I do me.
05:19 - And do you think comedy in that sense
05:21 can be really important in terms of what it says
05:23 about satire, the way that actually it can be a way through
05:26 to talk about some more serious topics?
05:29 - Absolutely.
05:30 I think that comedy can be really cleverly packaged
05:33 to show, to kind of discuss things
05:35 that we don't really want to talk about
05:36 and that are quite taboo.
05:37 And I think there are aspects in this film
05:39 and the other others in the series,
05:41 which it taps into quite nicely,
05:43 using it as a tool to talk about things
05:45 we don't really want to talk about
05:47 or that wouldn't be socially appropriate to talk about.
05:50 - 'Cause I've already said that there's something timeless
05:53 about this, but they're also very specific to an age.
05:56 - Yeah.
05:57 - Do you think that you could watch that now?
05:59 Do you think somebody who is the age that you were in 2003
06:01 could watch that now and get the same out of it?
06:05 - I think they could.
06:06 I think if they had the same interest
06:08 and the same kind of introduction to it,
06:09 I absolutely think so,
06:11 because it has a timeless quality to it.
06:13 I think the newer ones have dated a bit.
06:16 You can see from the kind of clothes and attitudes.
06:19 But with this one, it hasn't got the kind of the stereotypes
06:23 which are cultural of the era,
06:25 the kind of things like chav or nerd.
06:27 It's just kids and teenagers and sick formers.
06:31 - Yeah.
06:32 Fantastic.
06:33 Well, it's time now to move on
06:35 to your second chosen film, Krisha,
06:37 and you've chosen Encanto.
06:39 - I have.
06:40 - Why Encanto?
06:41 - It's fantastic musically.
06:43 I watched it for the first time during lockdown.
06:45 Before lockdown, I did watch films, but not massively so.
06:50 But I got into watching lots of different films
06:52 during lockdown, and the music on this
06:54 is absolutely fantastic,
06:56 which is the main reason I picked it.
06:58 It was a toss-up between this one and Soul, but by Disney.
07:01 But I picked this one because also the character of Mirabelle
07:05 is very much an odd one-out character,
07:06 which is something I quite resonate with.
07:08 - And this is a film that I saw at the cinema
07:10 with my children.
07:11 - Yeah.
07:12 - Did you see this on the big screen?
07:13 - No, I didn't.
07:14 - Is the big screen important, do you think?
07:15 I mean, I don't know, I get the sense that maybe
07:17 the big screen isn't always the way
07:19 that you would watch a film.
07:20 - No, it's not always the way I'm perhaps
07:21 introduced to a film.
07:23 I think certainly when I was younger,
07:24 I used to find the big screen too noisy and too much.
07:27 But actually, as I've got older,
07:28 I've found it's actually really interesting
07:30 to go and have the experience of going to the cinema.
07:33 So I haven't been to see Oppenheimer yet,
07:36 but I would like to go and see Oppenheimer in a cinema.
07:38 And there's another film on the list
07:40 that I actually did go to see for the first time
07:42 in the cinema.
07:43 So I think it very much depends on kind of the time.
07:46 It used to be something I did more with friends,
07:49 but I'm actually quite, I think,
07:50 the beginning of my PhD,
07:51 I went to watch "Bohemian Rhapsody" in the cinema on my own
07:54 just because I wanted to, it was a treat.
07:56 - Yeah, no, absolutely.
07:57 And of course, in my case,
07:58 that treat becomes almost a sort of,
08:00 where's the line between work and pleasure?
08:02 But you've chosen "Encounter".
08:04 Now, as animation,
08:06 'cause we've had animation with previous guests as well,
08:09 do you think there's something really special
08:11 about animation?
08:12 What does animation do that live action maybe cannot?
08:16 - I think animation brings a certain extra brightness,
08:19 so they're able to show the distinct colours
08:21 in different ways in different parts of the film
08:24 of what's going on.
08:26 And I think it wouldn't have,
08:27 certainly the part where Bruno's room,
08:31 I don't think would have worked quite as well
08:33 in live action.
08:34 It would have had a very different feel to it.
08:36 It would have probably had more shock value
08:38 rather than the actual message behind it,
08:40 which I think is actually the really important part
08:42 of this film.
08:43 - And are there any particular scenes that stand out?
08:47 Anything that makes this film really memorable?
08:50 - I think one thing I particularly remember
08:52 is where they have the dinner party
08:55 and they're telling Mirabelle not to mess everything up.
08:57 This is our night supper, it's perfect, perfect.
08:59 And it reminds me almost some of the social pressures
09:02 that people get put under.
09:04 But also when everything does go wrong,
09:05 it's automatically her fault,
09:07 even though she doesn't necessarily know that it's her fault.
09:10 And even though she tries really hard
09:12 to keep things right, it still all goes to pot.
09:15 And that's something I can really resonate with.
09:17 - And if you had to describe this film
09:19 to someone who hadn't seen it,
09:20 'cause I know that there's a big sort of cultural
09:23 and the way that different cultures are understood
09:26 and brought together,
09:27 but how would you sort of sum up this film?
09:31 - I think I'd almost say it is a film about a family
09:35 within a certain kind of cultural context
09:39 that is weaved together with music, basically.
09:43 - And do you think this is the sort of film
09:45 that will be talked about in years to come?
09:47 'Cause we mentioned with the Great Train Robbery film,
09:49 with the Sertrinian film, that in that case,
09:52 that's something that has sort of stood the test of time
09:55 over the course of more than half a century.
09:57 But you've chosen in canto of all the,
09:59 and you mentioned that there was another animated film
10:01 that you considered.
10:02 But what would make this film particularly stand out
10:04 in decades to come?
10:05 - I think that what's gonna make this stand out
10:07 is the music, because it is just so popular.
10:10 And I think there's Frozen, where you have Elsa,
10:12 and she's so much a kind of typecast
10:15 of kind of the Disney princess.
10:17 This almost turns the Disney princess on its head,
10:20 and you see the dynamics.
10:22 And I think the reason it would stand the test of time
10:24 is because of the ensemble and how it's all put together
10:27 rather than one particular character.
10:29 - And I have to ask, how many times have you seen
10:31 any canto? - I'd say about two or three.
10:33 So I haven't seen it on repeat,
10:35 but I have seen it more than once.
10:36 - Because there are some films, aren't there,
10:38 which you just keep going back to.
10:40 I suppose we sometimes talk about the concept
10:42 of a guilty pleasure. - Yeah.
10:43 - Although, as one previous guest said,
10:45 there is no such thing as a guilty pleasure.
10:47 You know, you don't have to feel guilty about something.
10:49 But do you think this is a film that works well for adults
10:52 as well as for children?
10:53 - Absolutely.
10:54 I think there's certain aspects
10:56 in the kind of the narrative going through
10:59 which are quite adult.
11:01 And also, it's not,
11:03 although it is obviously a Disney film,
11:06 it's not marketed as a children's film.
11:08 It's probably more of a family film, I would argue.
11:10 - And is this a film that you think
11:12 that you'll watch many more times?
11:13 - Yes, definitely.
11:14 I think the music in it is just something
11:16 really, really special.
11:18 And you can listen to it over and over again
11:19 and it not get boring.
11:21 - Yeah. - So.
11:22 - Yeah, brilliant.
11:23 Well, that's about all the time we have
11:26 for this first half of the show.
11:28 However, before we go to the break,
11:29 we have a Kent Film Trivia question for you at home.
11:33 Which 2012 film had Hollywood A-listers
11:38 flooding Medway towns?
11:40 Was it A, "Strawberry Fields,"
11:42 B, "Great Expectations,"
11:45 or C, "Les Miserables?"
11:48 We'll reveal the answer right after this break.
11:53 Don't go away.
11:54 (dramatic music)
11:57 (dramatic music)
12:00 Hello, and welcome back to Kent Film Club.
12:08 Now, just before that ad break,
12:10 we asked you at home a Kent Film Trivia question.
12:13 Which 2012 film had Hollywood A-listers
12:16 flooding Medway towns?
12:18 I asked, was it A, "Strawberry Fields,"
12:21 B, "Great Expectations,"
12:23 or C, "Les Miserables?"
12:26 And now I can reveal to you that the answer was, in fact, C.
12:29 It was "Les Mis."
12:31 Now, one of the most famous and noteworthy locations
12:34 utilised in the film is Chatham's historic Chatham Dockyard.
12:39 Did you get the answer right?
12:41 Well, it's time now to move onto your next chosen film,
12:45 Chricia, which is...
12:46 - "Les Parpris de Cherbourg."
12:48 - You said that far better than I could have attempted.
12:50 - Or in English, "The Umbrellas of Cherbourg."
12:52 - Now, this is a film that I saw,
12:53 admittedly on the small screen, not too many years ago.
12:55 And you have a background in languages.
12:57 - I do, and I actually watched this film first time
13:01 doing part of my French and German degree,
13:04 part of the French film module I picked my first year.
13:07 And I picked the film today
13:11 because it's just so brightly coloured
13:14 and it's just left an imprint on me.
13:15 I don't think I wrote an essay on it or did...
13:18 I might have done my exam on it, I can't remember,
13:19 but I definitely didn't write my essay on it
13:22 or do a presentation on it
13:23 because it was right towards the end of the course.
13:25 But it's one that's particularly stood out
13:27 because compared to the other ones
13:29 that are more kind of the modern film age,
13:31 so you've got "La Haine" and "Le Jeté," which we covered,
13:34 they were filmed in black and white
13:35 and they cover quite meaty, toughy, gritty, rough topics.
13:40 This is actually quite different
13:42 and it shows very bright, lots of colours,
13:45 and there's a real social commentary interweaved into it.
13:47 I've actually struggled to watch it in complete whole
13:50 since my degree 'cause it's not online anywhere.
13:53 And I'm struggling accessing Bob at the University of Kent,
13:57 I've got other things to be doing.
13:58 But it's such a fantastic...
14:00 It's left such an impression on me.
14:01 And again, it's another musical.
14:04 It has... The music is very strong.
14:06 It's one that's left an imprint on me in that way.
14:09 - Because one thing I remember is that it tends
14:11 to have lots of different genres working through it.
14:15 So you mentioned the musical
14:16 and visually it's a real feast for the eyes.
14:20 But do you want to say a little bit,
14:21 if anybody who hasn't watched this film
14:24 is intrigued to find out more about it,
14:25 how would you describe what goes on in this film?
14:27 - I'd describe there's a certain social commentary
14:30 in terms of a couple who obviously get together
14:32 and have a child and then split up.
14:34 And then obviously there's this love story
14:36 and romance tension in it.
14:37 Underlies a lot of the musical and the bright colours.
14:41 There's quite a sombre undertone to it,
14:44 kind of heartbreak and social standing as well.
14:47 But I think it's just such a fantastic...
14:49 It's so cleverly done.
14:51 You wouldn't think of it as a sad film
14:53 when you look at a picture like this
14:54 and you see some of the recording of it.
14:57 It just looks so bright and happy,
14:58 but there's this undertone to it, which is fantastic.
15:01 - Yeah, and films can often work really well, can't they?
15:03 When you're watching it and thinking
15:06 that it's taking you down a particular path,
15:08 but actually there's something maybe
15:09 a bit more subversive going on, maybe melancholic.
15:12 And it takes repeated viewing sometimes
15:14 to really appreciate that.
15:15 But is this a film that you've watched
15:16 on different occasions and maybe got something different
15:19 out of it each time?
15:20 - I think when I've watched the fragments
15:22 that I have watched back,
15:24 and because I've obviously not been able
15:25 to watch it in whole,
15:26 I've been able to appreciate more
15:27 of how it's all put together
15:29 and how it's very cleverly pieced together
15:32 in almost a pastiche where you can see the undertone
15:35 of melancholy and broken romance.
15:37 And then you've got the music aspects
15:39 and how that intertwines.
15:41 And then you've got the use of colour
15:43 being brighter at some points
15:44 and less bright at other points as well.
15:46 And I think it's when I've watched it on,
15:48 chunks of it on repeated views
15:50 that I've really come to appreciate
15:52 how it's so cleverly put together.
15:53 - And do you think it's been the inspiration
15:55 for any other films?
15:56 Because of course this was made,
15:58 perhaps not too many years after,
15:59 for example, "Singin' in the Rain."
16:01 - Yes. - But very different.
16:02 But also in some respects,
16:03 also a way of saying something about what was going on
16:06 at the time, you mentioned social commentary.
16:08 - It definitely has.
16:09 Now, I do know it has kind of inspired other films
16:13 and influenced other films,
16:14 but because I'm not a massive buff
16:16 on which films it has influenced,
16:18 I can't actually tell you which ones,
16:20 but it definitely has influenced
16:21 and people do pull back to Jacques Demy's film,
16:24 this one in particular.
16:25 - And are there any particular scenes in the film
16:28 that stand out for you?
16:29 Because you've watched it in a segment.
16:30 So when you watch that,
16:31 would there be a particular segment, for example,
16:33 that you would be keen to watch
16:35 perhaps more frequently than any of the others?
16:37 - I think one that's particularly deep and meaningful
16:40 is the scene at the end
16:42 where them two meet each other again
16:45 at the, it's called like a petrol station.
16:48 And you have this really posh,
16:49 glamorous 1960s petrol station.
16:53 And they meet having moved on from each other,
16:56 him obviously having gone away to fight in the Algerian war.
16:59 And you have this bright background
17:02 with this very sombre meeting,
17:04 and you just know it's not gonna be a happy ever after.
17:08 And I think that in itself is such a meaningful piece
17:12 to rewatch of the film.
17:14 - And sometimes when you don't have
17:15 those happy ever after endings,
17:17 they can work because sometimes you reflect afterwards
17:21 and think, well, actually maybe life
17:22 is a bit more like that.
17:24 And I suppose it depends what you go to the movies for,
17:26 but you might go for a bit of escapism
17:28 and a bit of colour and a bit of magic.
17:29 But what you come out with
17:30 is something perhaps much more profound and expected.
17:33 - And I think the fact
17:34 that it doesn't have a happy ever after,
17:36 I think is really meaningful
17:37 'cause so many films do.
17:40 And although escapism, yes, it is important,
17:43 it's not necessarily always reflective
17:46 of either kind of if you want a realist perspective
17:49 or different types of creativity
17:51 and kind of pathways where different things happen.
17:54 Things shouldn't always necessarily go
17:55 towards a happy ever after.
17:57 And I think this film does it particularly well.
17:59 - Yeah, absolutely.
18:00 And it's time now, Krisha,
18:02 to move on to your final chosen film.
18:05 - Yes.
18:06 - And a film I suspect that many people watching this
18:09 will be very familiar with.
18:11 - And it is actually, I've just remembered,
18:12 one of the films that was influenced
18:14 by the Page-Prediction book.
18:16 - Yeah.
18:17 - So.
18:18 - Yeah, so I mean, in terms of it's interesting actually
18:20 to go from that film to this
18:22 and in terms of the radiant colour that stands out.
18:25 Do you want to talk about Barbie,
18:26 which you've just seen?
18:27 - Yes, I saw Barbie a few weeks ago
18:29 and I think it's an absolutely fantastic film.
18:31 One of the first thoughts I had
18:32 when I came out to the cinema
18:33 was there's gonna be loads of dissertations
18:35 on sociology on Barbie next year.
18:37 And it's so, I think what I found particularly fantastic
18:40 about the film was actually the director is neurodivergent.
18:43 So it's actually really good to have someone
18:45 who's openly not neurotypical in a job
18:47 that is actually really creative.
18:49 It gives great visibility.
18:50 And the film itself is really cleverly put together.
18:53 I think Margot Robbie does a fantastic job
18:55 of unpicking this stereotypical Barbie.
18:58 The fact that, well, is there a stereotypical Barbie
19:00 in the end?
19:01 - And you've just given me a new lens to look at the film
19:03 because I've written on this.
19:04 I've spoken to people who, some people,
19:06 a bit like Marmite, some people adore it,
19:08 some people are a little less sure.
19:10 I have seen it with my children
19:12 and I've also seen it in a more art cinema context
19:16 with adults.
19:17 You mentioned neurodiversity.
19:19 Now let's talk about that because you obviously found
19:22 that the film really worked and it resonated.
19:26 Why exactly did it work for you?
19:28 - I think it worked for me was because
19:31 of how cleverly it was put together.
19:33 I've certainly seen lots of memes on Facebook
19:35 about how people are identifying with weird Barbie.
19:39 And I think as somebody who had,
19:41 I didn't necessarily have a weird Barbie per se,
19:43 but there was one Barbie that was a bit overused
19:46 and the clothes didn't quite fit
19:48 and the hair wasn't quite right.
19:50 And I think that the kind of the idea
19:53 of weird Barbie really works
19:56 because we're not all cookie cutter people.
19:58 And I think as somebody who is known
20:02 in their academic work for being quite open
20:05 with their positionality, as a neurodivergent person,
20:08 actually, I think it's really good
20:10 to have not everybody be cookie cutter shaped
20:14 'cause that's not how life works.
20:16 And actually, when we put those,
20:19 it's our ideas that create those cookie cutters
20:21 in the social norms rather than it actually
20:23 necessarily being the right thing to do.
20:25 - Because when I saw the trailer for this film,
20:27 it said, "If you like Barbie, you're gonna love this movie."
20:30 But then it said, "If you don't like Barbie,
20:32 "or even if you hate Barbie,
20:34 "you're also gonna like this movie."
20:36 And I think that that was actually quite clever
20:38 because it deals with this stereotype.
20:42 And I know some people who've said
20:43 they don't wanna see the film
20:44 because Barbie isn't their thing,
20:46 but it takes you on a journey.
20:47 It takes Barbie on a journey.
20:49 And it's a growing up narrative
20:51 coming from one world into another,
20:54 but changing that world and questioning along the way
20:57 all the things, including around patriarchy,
21:00 that we take for granted.
21:01 - And I think it shows, kind of exposes the power dynamics
21:05 with kind of certain people being in charge
21:08 and how patriarchy works really well and really cleverly.
21:12 And I know some people haven't liked that,
21:13 but I thought that was really well done.
21:16 And actually, people's reactions to it exposes, in a way,
21:20 what their stance on feminism and patriarchy
21:23 and intersectional identities are, effectively.
21:27 - Because you have male identity, Ken,
21:30 who of course is one of many Kens, so he doesn't count.
21:34 But he also has to work out where he fits in
21:37 in relation to Barbie.
21:38 So of course, it's not the K.
21:40 He, in a way, he's a more peripheral character
21:42 who's trying to find his way
21:45 of making an impact on the world.
21:47 And he goes through a period, of course,
21:49 of doing the very things that men can often do
21:52 in that sort of context of reinforcing patriarchy.
21:55 But he doesn't win at the end, does he?
21:57 - No, and I think that's why it's so good,
22:00 because it exposes the flaws of both,
22:03 what the status quo at the beginning of the film was,
22:06 and the status quo that Ken built,
22:09 to actually show how, perhaps,
22:11 Neuvert, there were people losing out on both of them.
22:15 But actually, we need something better.
22:18 But we need to acknowledge the role that feminism has played
22:23 within people's lives to get the power there.
22:27 - Because one of the things that often arises in a film
22:29 is this notion of change.
22:31 The characters change.
22:33 So if we, as the audience, are gonna come away from it,
22:36 if somebody in the film is undergoing some kind of change,
22:40 transformative narrative, I guess it impacts on us.
22:44 And I guess we all take maybe something
22:46 different from that film.
22:47 - And I think, really, I enjoyed the notion that came out,
22:51 I don't know if this was in the film directly,
22:54 but it certainly came out of this Barbie can,
22:56 and actually walking away thinking,
22:58 you know what, I can do stuff.
23:01 This Barbie can is really something to hold onto.
23:04 And I didn't walk away thinking,
23:07 oh, that was a nice film,
23:08 or I enjoyed that hour and a half to two hours
23:11 putting my feet up on a recliner in the cinema,
23:13 or on the sofa or bed.
23:16 But actually, this Barbie can,
23:18 and I think that sentence is just very, very powerful
23:21 in itself, and the fact that this Barbie can
23:24 is for anybody, I think, is particularly powerful.
23:28 - Brilliant, thank you, Chrysha.
23:29 Well, I'm afraid that that is all the time we have for today.
23:33 Many thanks to Chrysha Waldock for joining us
23:36 and being such a brilliant guest.
23:38 And many thanks to you all for tuning in.
23:40 Be sure to come back and join us again
23:42 at the same time next week.
23:44 Until then, that's all from us.
23:46 Goodbye.
23:47 (dramatic music)
23:51 (dramatic music)
23:54 (dramatic music)
23:56 (music ends)
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