Irish Government awaiting legal advice on ‘very significant’ step of interstate case against Britain over legacy act
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00:00 Legislation like this should have victims front and centre.
00:05 And what has happened here is completely the opposite.
00:09 It's a reckless piece of legislation, as far as I'm concerned,
00:13 by the British government.
00:15 It reminds you of the thatch-ride politics of the past.
00:19 This legislation is actually re-traumatising victims.
00:23 I think it's wrong that victims have to go and take cases themselves.
00:29 I think this is where the government needs to step in.
00:32 I can also say at the outset that Senator Erin McGregor,
00:35 who's not here at the moment,
00:37 was very anxious that I put this matter down today.
00:43 This also is completely underlining the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.
00:51 The fact that one of the guarantors is acting unilaterally in the manner in which they've done.
00:57 I think this breaks many human rights laws.
01:03 There are many victims groups in Northern Ireland.
01:06 Granny Taggart from Amnesty International is on the phone to me a lot.
01:12 You have William Traum and other organisations,
01:15 all hoping and praying that the Irish government will step up to look after their interests.
01:21 I think it's imperative that we not spend too much time doing the paperwork
01:31 and ensuring our eyes are dotted and our teeths are crossed.
01:34 It's imperative that we move in time.
01:37 We can't take too long to decide if we're going to take a case to the European Court of Rights.
01:46 It's the only right that we do.
01:49 It's well known and well documented that this legislation, this Act, breaks many human rights codes.
01:56 Like I said earlier, it's not good enough that victims are left having to take cases
02:05 with no other avenue to try and deal with this.
02:08 So, Minister, I look forward to your reply.
02:11 Thank you very much, Minister.
02:13 Thank you, Senator Niall.
02:15 Senator Niall, I appreciate you raising this matter.
02:19 It's a matter that I know you're deeply committed to and interested in.
02:23 I've been watching very closely since this whole issue in relation to the Northern Ireland Legacy Act.
02:29 The Bill was originally announced some time ago.
02:32 I also want to join with you in acknowledging Senator Aaron McGregor's continuing interest in this as well.
02:39 I think you yourself have been a very particular strong advocate and voice in relation to the criticism of this legislation.
02:48 I would encourage you to continue your contacts as the Government is going to do through our own channels as well.
02:56 The Northern Ireland Legacy Bill received royal assent, as you will be aware, on 18 September.
03:01 Since the British Government unilaterally introduced this legislation in May 2022,
03:06 there has been consistent and widespread opposition from all of the main political parties in Northern Ireland,
03:11 victims and their representatives, church leaders and civil society,
03:15 as well as from international observers and experts and from this Government,
03:19 including yourself, Deputy, who's been based in a border county all your life.
03:25 At every opportunity, the Taoiseach and Tániste have made the opposition of the Government known to their British counterparts
03:31 and have called on them to pause the legislation and return to the principles of the Stormont House Agreement,
03:38 which were agreed by both Governments and most of the Northern Ireland parties.
03:42 In 2020, the UK Secretary of State for Northern Ireland recommitted to that agreement with the new Legacy Act,
03:49 but the new Legacy Act has moved unilaterally away from it.
03:53 It is a matter of deep regret that this way forward was never given a chance,
03:59 and that is true of the work under the Stormont House Agreement.
04:02 We have serious concerns around the Act's compatibility with the European Convention on Human Rights,
04:07 which you have referred to yourself on a number of occasions in your opening remarks,
04:11 in particular the provisions around the granting of immunity for crimes amounting to gross human rights violations
04:17 and the shutting down of all outstanding legacy inquests.
04:21 This is a source of real distress for many families waiting for inquests or pursuing civil litigation
04:27 in relation to the death of their loved ones, and would likely have a negative impact on reconciliation.
04:33 A key element of reconciliation is being able to go through the process of what happened in the past,
04:39 having the facts out there, comfortable or as uncomfortable as they may be for some people,
04:44 but it is an essential part of reconciliation.
04:48 In addition, a significant number of international observers, including the Council of Europe,
04:52 the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and US representatives have expressed serious concerns
04:57 about the provisions of the Act.
04:59 Respect for the European Convention on Human Rights is at the heart of the Good Friday Agreement,
05:04 the bedrock of peace in Northern Ireland.
05:06 Its implementation in Northern Ireland law is a specific requirement of the Good Friday Agreement,
05:12 and this Act requires undermining the fundamental rights of the people of Northern Ireland.
05:18 In so doing, it damages the process of reconciliation, which we have worked so hard to progress.
05:24 The Government must now consider our response to the passing of this Act by the UK
05:28 in the face of unprecedented opposition and in the face of what had previously been agreed.
05:34 I know this is a matter on the agenda of both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste,
05:38 and the issues that you mentioned in relation to the European Court of Human Rights is under consideration,
05:44 and we are awaiting legal advice from the Attorney-General on that matter.
05:47 Thank you.
05:48 Thank you very much, Minister.
05:49 Senator, you have one minute to reply.
05:52 Thank you very much, Lasky Hurley, and thank you very much, Councillor Fleming, for your response.
05:57 I suppose victims won't take an awful lot from this, but what I do see that can be taken from this
06:09 is the statement that this Act risks undermining the fundamental rights of people in Northern Ireland,
06:15 and in so doing, it damages the process of reconciliation, which we have worked so hard to progress.
06:20 That's absolutely right.
06:23 In the European Convention on Human Rights, you're right in saying that it's at the heart of the Good Friday Agreement.
06:30 The fact that we're at that point, I want to reiterate to you and to Government,
06:37 I would like to see a timeline now set out on our response.
06:42 I don't want to see this whittling around. I'm going to keep raising it every opportunity I get, Minister.
06:48 But I want to take back to the Taoiseach and the Tanaiste, that time is of the essence.
06:51 We want to see our next move sooner rather than later, and we want to see that move on the basis of a case going to the European Court of Human Rights.
07:02 Thank you very much, Senator Blayne.
07:03 Minister, you have one minute to respond.
07:06 Thank you. We have raised this issue also at every forum that has been possible for the Irish Government to do,
07:12 such as in the UN and the Council of Europe, and at political and official level since the publication of the Bill.
07:19 The Act will damage reconciliation, as I've said, and it represents a unilateral and unnecessary departure from the UK Government
07:27 for the agreed process for dealing with the legacy issues in the Stormont House Agreement.
07:32 The initiation of an interstate case against the United Kingdom before the European Court of Human Rights
07:37 in relation to the UK Legacy Bill would be a very significant step, and it is not one that would be taken lightly.
07:43 However, the Government has sought legal advice on this matter, which should be received in the near future.
07:48 I don't have an exact date, but it will be received in the near future.
07:51 When that advice is received, the Government will consider what subsequent action should be taken at that stage,
07:57 and it is, of course, a matter of deep regret that this is the space in which we find ourselves now.