Irish Government awaiting legal advice on ‘very significant’ step of interstate case against Britain over legacy act
Irish Government awaiting legal advice on ‘very significant’ step of interstate case against Britain over legacy act
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00:00 Legislation like this should have victims front and centre.
00:05 And what has happened here is completely the opposite.
00:09 It's a reckless piece of legislation, as far as I'm concerned,
00:13 by the British government.
00:15 It reminds you of the thatch-ride politics of the past.
00:19 This legislation is actually re-traumatising victims.
00:23 I think it's wrong that victims have to go and take cases themselves.
00:29 I think this is where the government needs to step in.
00:32 I can also say at the outset that Senator Erin McGregor,
00:35 who's not here at the moment,
00:37 was very anxious that I put this matter down today.
00:43 This also is completely underlining the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.
00:51 The fact that one of the guarantors is acting unilaterally in the manner in which they've done.
00:57 I think this breaks many human rights laws.
01:03 There are many victims groups in Northern Ireland.
01:06 Granny Taggart from Amnesty International is on the phone to me a lot.
01:12 You have William Traum and other organisations,
01:15 all hoping and praying that the Irish government will step up to look after their interests.
01:21 I think it's imperative that we not spend too much time doing the paperwork
01:31 and ensuring our eyes are dotted and our teeths are crossed.
01:34 It's imperative that we move in time.
01:37 We can't take too long to decide if we're going to take a case to the European Court of Rights.
01:46 It's the only right that we do.
01:49 It's well known and well documented that this legislation, this Act, breaks many human rights codes.
01:56 Like I said earlier, it's not good enough that victims are left having to take cases
02:05 with no other avenue to try and deal with this.
02:08 So, Minister, I look forward to your reply.
02:11 Thank you very much, Minister.
02:13 Thank you, Senator Niall.
02:15 Senator Niall, I appreciate you raising this matter.
02:19 It's a matter that I know you're deeply committed to and interested in.
02:23 I've been watching very closely since this whole issue in relation to the Northern Ireland Legacy Act.
02:29 The Bill was originally announced some time ago.
02:32 I also want to join with you in acknowledging Senator Aaron McGregor's continuing interest in this as well.
02:39 I think you yourself have been a very particular strong advocate and voice in relation to the criticism of this legislation.
02:48 I would encourage you to continue your contacts as the Government is going to do through our own channels as well.
02:56 The Northern Ireland Legacy Bill received royal assent, as you will be aware, on 18 September.
03:01 Since the British Government unilaterally introduced this legislation in May 2022,
03:06 there has been consistent and widespread opposition from all of the main political parties in Northern Ireland,
03:11 victims and their representatives, church leaders and civil society,
03:15 as well as from international observers and experts and from this Government,
03:19 including yourself, Deputy, who's been based in a border county all your life.
03:25 At every opportunity, the Taoiseach and Tániste have made the opposition of the Government known to their British counterparts
03:31 and have called on them to pause the legislation and return to the principles of the Stormont House Agreement,
03:38 which were agreed by both Governments and most of the Northern Ireland parties.
03:42 In 2020, the UK Secretary of State for Northern Ireland recommitted to that agreement with the new Legacy Act,
03:49 but the new Legacy Act has moved unilaterally away from it.
03:53 It is a matter of deep regret that this way forward was never given a chance,
03:59 and that is true of the work under the Stormont House Agreement.
04:02 We have serious concerns around the Act's compatibility with the European Convention on Human Rights,
04:07 which you have referred to yourself on a number of occasions in your opening remarks,
04:11 in particular the provisions around the granting of immunity for crimes amounting to gross human rights violations
04:17 and the shutting down of all outstanding legacy inquests.
04:21 This is a source of real distress for many families waiting for inquests or pursuing civil litigation
04:27 in relation to the death of their loved ones, and would likely have a negative impact on reconciliation.
04:33 A key element of reconciliation is being able to go through the process of what happened in the past,
04:39 having the facts out there, comfortable or as uncomfortable as they may be for some people,
04:44 but it is an essential part of reconciliation.
04:48 In addition, a significant number of international observers, including the Council of Europe,
04:52 the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and US representatives have expressed serious concerns
04:57 about the provisions of the Act.
04:59 Respect for the European Convention on Human Rights is at the heart of the Good Friday Agreement,
05:04 the bedrock of peace in Northern Ireland.
05:06 Its implementation in Northern Ireland law is a specific requirement of the Good Friday Agreement,
05:12 and this Act requires undermining the fundamental rights of the people of Northern Ireland.
05:18 In so doing, it damages the process of reconciliation, which we have worked so hard to progress.
05:24 The Government must now consider our response to the passing of this Act by the UK
05:28 in the face of unprecedented opposition and in the face of what had previously been agreed.
05:34 I know this is a matter on the agenda of both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste,
05:38 and the issues that you mentioned in relation to the European Court of Human Rights is under consideration,
05:44 and we are awaiting legal advice from the Attorney-General on that matter.
05:47 Thank you.
05:48 Thank you very much, Minister.
05:49 Senator, you have one minute to reply.
05:52 Thank you very much, Lasky Hurley, and thank you very much, Councillor Fleming, for your response.
05:57 I suppose victims won't take an awful lot from this, but what I do see that can be taken from this
06:09 is the statement that this Act risks undermining the fundamental rights of people in Northern Ireland,
06:15 and in so doing, it damages the process of reconciliation, which we have worked so hard to progress.
06:20 That's absolutely right.
06:23 In the European Convention on Human Rights, you're right in saying that it's at the heart of the Good Friday Agreement.
06:30 The fact that we're at that point, I want to reiterate to you and to Government,
06:37 I would like to see a timeline now set out on our response.
06:42 I don't want to see this whittling around. I'm going to keep raising it every opportunity I get, Minister.
06:48 But I want to take back to the Taoiseach and the Tanaiste, that time is of the essence.
06:51 We want to see our next move sooner rather than later, and we want to see that move on the basis of a case going to the European Court of Human Rights.
07:02 Thank you very much, Senator Blayne.
07:03 Minister, you have one minute to respond.
07:06 Thank you. We have raised this issue also at every forum that has been possible for the Irish Government to do,
07:12 such as in the UN and the Council of Europe, and at political and official level since the publication of the Bill.
07:19 The Act will damage reconciliation, as I've said, and it represents a unilateral and unnecessary departure from the UK Government
07:27 for the agreed process for dealing with the legacy issues in the Stormont House Agreement.
07:32 The initiation of an interstate case against the United Kingdom before the European Court of Human Rights
07:37 in relation to the UK Legacy Bill would be a very significant step, and it is not one that would be taken lightly.
07:43 However, the Government has sought legal advice on this matter, which should be received in the near future.
07:48 I don't have an exact date, but it will be received in the near future.
07:51 When that advice is received, the Government will consider what subsequent action should be taken at that stage,
07:57 and it is, of course, a matter of deep regret that this is the space in which we find ourselves now.