URGENT!! Latest Trump News [5AM] 10_3_23 - Breaking News Oct 3, 2023
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00:00 reporters, the former president's lawyers at times seemed to be arguing for an
00:03 audience of one and it wasn't the judge saying Mar-a-Lago was worth at least a
00:08 billion dollars and so was Doral that real estate valuations are subjective
00:13 coming down to whatever a person is willing to pay that there was no harm
00:17 the banks made money and quote there was no intent to defraud period the end what
00:25 was curious is that Trump's lawyers were making some of the same arguments the
00:29 judge has repeatedly thrown out and they were doing it confrontationally
00:33 we're gonna ask our experts why they would do that especially since this is a
00:37 bench trial meaning the judge himself not a jury is the one who will decide
00:42 the case we'll also ask whether Michael Cohen Donald Trump's old fixer really is
00:47 the quote lynchpin of this case as the defense argues and whether his sworn
00:52 testimony that the valuations of Donald Trump's properties were based on Trump's
00:56 desire to be quote higher on the Forbes list are credible and more importantly
01:01 legally relevant so now that court appears to be back in session after the
01:05 lunch break let's get caught up on the latest joining us now as NBC News
01:10 correspondent Vaughn Hilliard who is outside of 60 Center Street for us NBC
01:15 News justice and intelligence correspondent Ken Delaney and
01:18 Bloomberg Opinion senior executive editor a man who knows so much about
01:22 Donald Trump's finances Tim O'Brien all right Vaughn I'm gonna begin with you
01:26 there are any cameras in the courtroom they were there for a moment at the
01:30 beginning but then they were told to leave we're getting a lot of color from
01:33 our reporters inside the courtroom what can you tell us has happened so far
01:37 after the lunch break right this is now our number six this is going to be a
01:42 trial that goes on five days a week the judge set up potentially all the way to
01:46 December 22nd of course that could change here but this is a courtroom in
01:50 which not only Donald Trump is attending in person he does not have to attend and
01:55 we don't expect him to attend for most of this trial but Letitia James the New
02:00 York Attorney General who is not the one actually presenting this case in for in
02:04 front of the judge but is of course the lead prosecutor and is the one who
02:07 announced these this initial lawsuit against Donald Trump is in the courtroom
02:12 as well this is a rather small gallery there but Letitia James has seated just
02:16 a few rows behind where Donald Trump is seated and there was at least one moment
02:20 when they were heading out on to lunch break from our producers inside in which
02:24 they described the moment that Donald Trump walked by and glared at Letitia
02:28 James of course he then came to the microphones and lambasted the New York
02:33 Attorney General suggesting that she has been on political vendetta against him
02:37 ever since she first announced her run for New York Attorney General and of
02:41 course this will ultimately be decided by a judge there is no jury in this case
02:46 and the judge will be the one to discern term in the extent to which Donald
02:49 Trump is to adult children Don jr. and Eric as well as the Trump organization
02:54 are liable for the financial fraud laid out in the Attorney General's lawsuit
02:59 that was first filed more than a year ago it's interesting Vaughn that Donald
03:03 Trump is going after the Attorney General but also more importantly after
03:08 the judge and he's doing so right outside of the courtroom doors in these
03:13 lunch breaks or recess breaks can we play a little bit I think we have it of
03:18 what Donald Trump has been saying about the courtroom
03:23 the size of your apartment by 20,000 square feet
03:28 just to you by the way
03:32 much lower than the actual net worth
03:38 fake Attorney General of New York who's driving business out who's letting
03:43 murderers run all over the city they don't do anything to murderers that are
03:48 running all over the city the Attorney General is a racist
03:52 Letitia James okay so that's him going after Letitia James it wasn't the
03:58 soundbite where he's going after the judge has been calling the judge at
04:01 deranged but that one is interesting nonetheless Vaughn talk to me about why
04:04 you were asking him specifically about the square footage of his his penthouse
04:11 right that was a Friday campaign stop in Los Angeles in which I was joining the
04:15 former president and you could hear me try to ask him just one of the examples
04:19 laid out by Letitia James is his own midtown Manhattan Trump Tower apartment
04:24 in which they claimed that it was 30,000 square feet when in reality it's 10,000
04:29 square feet the value they placed on it was 327 million dollars which is three
04:34 times more than any apartment has ever been sold in New York City his own
04:38 former chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg told the Attorney General's
04:42 office that at least it was 200 about 200 million dollars overvalued but you
04:47 heard Donald Trump not directly answer my question my attempted question to him
04:52 about the overvaluation but for Donald Trump so much of this is not even about
04:57 the facts and we should know when one of the moments that he took to the
05:00 microphone here this afternoon he was talking about the appellate court and
05:04 I'll let our legal experts including Ken get more into the details but the
05:08 appellate court Donald Trump was hoping that the appellate court would delay
05:12 this trial from going forward or toss it out altogether suggesting that the
05:16 statute of limitations applies to this case for any of the claims before 2014
05:20 but last week the appellate court ordered that today could happen and that
05:24 the first day of trial would move forward Donald Trump clearly frustrated
05:28 by the mere existence of this lawsuit and that is where you have seen him go
05:32 on the attack and not only against the Attorney General but also the judge who
05:35 is overseeing this case of course as a playbook that we have seen Donald Trump
05:39 go forward with in the past and in the situation of the judge it's not like the
05:43 judge is gonna leave the courtroom and play his own public relations campaign
05:46 and so for Donald Trump unless he chooses to testify himself before the
05:50 judge going and walking outside of the courtroom is his best microphone outside
05:55 of going on the campaign trail and convincing millions of Americans that he
05:58 is being facing an unfair and civil lawsuit from the New York Attorney
06:01 General all right let's talk about the fact that he showed up today at all
06:04 kendall anion we don't usually see him in court he said he's gonna show up in
06:08 the past but he hasn't done so at least in New York what did it mean today to
06:14 have him in that courtroom well that's right Katie and he's not required to be
06:18 here it's a civil trial but he chose to be here for one thing he got a moment
06:23 that was broadcast widely where he got to denounce the proceedings and and get
06:28 his point of view across as only Donald Trump can do much better than any
06:32 surrogate in a very forceful way saying things that have already been refuted by
06:38 the judge in his partial summary judgment ruling last week and let's
06:42 let's remember it's important remember most of the contested issues in this
06:45 trial have already been decided the judge all has ruled that Donald Trump
06:48 committed massive fraud the real question in this trial is going to be
06:52 the damages and the remedies whether he will have to pay 250 million dollars as
06:56 the Attorney General is seeking but for Trump it almost appears that this is as
07:01 much about politics and image-making as it is about the law because he's he may
07:07 be figuring that look he's already lost with this judge the judge has already
07:10 made it clear he thinks that there's fraud he's not counting on a great
07:14 outcome he may or may not win in the appeals court but he's gonna try to win
07:17 in the court of public opinion that's why he showed up today knowing that the
07:21 cameras would follow him so much of this is about reputation and what Donald
07:26 Trump has built around himself in terms of a legend of this successful
07:30 businessman it's being pierced by this judge it has been pierced by this judge
07:35 who ruled last week that he based a lot of his business on fraud that he was a
07:39 cheat well I mean coming into this you know performative episode today a lot of
07:46 it was already foregone conclusions he's been it's really not a matter now of
07:49 finding him guilty of fraud it's a matter of how much pain he's gonna
07:53 suffer for that both in terms of the penalty they impose on him financially
07:57 and the removal of his New York businesses from him his children and his
08:02 entire company and I think that it's a measure I think of how lost he actually
08:07 is that he's he's he's prioritizing vaudeville over just sitting quietly and
08:13 trying to let this proceeding go in a different direction and I'm sure he
08:18 believes already that it's gonna go against him so he's got nothing to lose
08:21 so basically performance for the campaign yes it's a performance for the
08:26 campaign his lawyers are performing for him his lawyers are in over their heads
08:30 but none of that really matters because I think at the end of the day he sees
08:34 himself now as a political figure he might appeal it but if he loses that
08:38 appeal he's gonna potentially owe quite a bit of money Letitia James is looking
08:42 for 250 million dollars which 18 years ago is is what you found that he was
08:47 entirely worth well and I don't think that's the biggest pain he's gonna
08:49 suffer you know most of his wealth is concentrated in New York if he has to
08:54 let go of his businesses here there's a small handful of skyscrapers that
08:57 account for a lot of his wealth if he's forced to sell those things off under
09:01 fire sale conditions he's not gonna make as much money as he might otherwise be
09:06 able to and he's not gonna be able to operate in the city anymore his family's
09:10 legacy is here his ability I think to reposition himself as a businessman is
09:14 here and I think he's basically letting go all of all of that in the service of
09:19 being a cult leader politically the forfeit much of his identity but not
09:23 this idea that Doral is worth at least a billion dollars or Mar-a-Lago worth at
09:28 least a billion dollars I mean it is worth as much as somebody's willing to
09:33 pay for it he's the former president do they have any argument that those things
09:37 could be that they can go out and say that in order to get favorable loans
09:42 Mar-a-Lago is encumbered by all sorts of zoning restrictions it's a members club
09:47 Trump had to turn it into a club because he couldn't afford to own it at the time
09:51 that he bought it and so he's not gonna be able to sell that for a billion
09:55 dollars in my estimation I think it's also interesting that the day that the
09:58 judge said you are all overvaluing Mar-a-Lago Eric took to Twitter to say
10:03 the judge is wrong it's worth more than a billion dollars as they all continue
10:07 to say because one they can't control themselves and two they don't think
10:10 there's gonna be any consequence for it I guess just put it into layman's terms
10:13 why does it matter I mean he can say whatever he wants about his property why
10:18 is it legally problematic for him to claim that he's got more squared
10:22 footage than he does or that his property is worth you know X times as
10:26 much as it likely is worth I mean it is some square footage isn't but but
10:31 property values are subjective to a degree to a to a degree but to a small
10:35 degree you can you can compare them to other properties in the same area you
10:39 can compare them to how much of the property you actually own in Trump
10:42 Towers case all the condos are owned by other people now he controls the key
10:46 controls the commercial space on the first few floors he doesn't own the land
10:50 underneath it that's leased he does it at the end of the day because he sees
10:55 wealth as a packing order and he is so deeply insecure about his track record
11:00 as a businessman his worth as a human being and how he's perceived by others
11:04 that he can't help but exaggerate these things the reasons problematic legally
11:08 is you can't walk into a bank and say lend me 500 million dollars because I
11:12 have a billion dollars in assets when you may be only have 200 million the
11:16 banks made money off this there was no harm done that's not true in every case
11:20 but I think the you know the bank some of the banks may argue that they weren't
11:24 damaged it's very interesting one of the witnesses in this case is on both sides
11:28 Rosemary Vrabach his private banker Deutsche Bank is on both the
11:33 prosecution's witness list and the defense's witness list I think the
11:38 prosecution is gonna say to her he lied to you didn't he didn't he and you got
11:42 burned and they're gonna hope she says yes I think the defense is gonna say to
11:46 her he came in and showed you what he had and you thought they were good
11:49 honest reflections of how much money he had and you knew better isn't that
11:52 correct and they're gonna hope she says yes they're arguing that the banks do
11:56 their due diligence so I can say whatever I want but the banks are gonna
11:58 go in they're gonna take their own assessment that then that's what they
12:01 have indeed argued but the insurers I think have a different view of this
12:06 matter I don't think all the banks are uniform and how they see this how they
12:11 see these course of things having gone down and I think that's part of what
12:14 this testimony is about but again the fraud is already big yeah it's already
12:19 been decided yeah it's already been so it's just how much money he's gonna pay
12:22 and whether he'll be able to hold on to those New York properties which again
12:25 we've been saying are so much time up in his identity the myth-making around who
12:29 Donald Trump is Tim O'Brien thank you very much to see you
12:33 Vaughn Hilliard Ken Delaney and gentlemen thank you as well coming up
12:37 next Donald Trump is trashing the gym all right let's keep this conversation
12:40 going joining us now is former Brooklyn prosecutor and an MSNBC legal analyst
12:44 Charles Coleman Charles always good to have you I want to start with what I
12:47 tease which is the this idea that Donald Trump is going after the person who's
12:51 gonna be deciding his fate here the judge himself is gonna be the one
12:54 deciding it's not a jury it's a bench trial let me play this time the the
12:58 soundbite where Donald Trump is going after the judge directly again right
13:01 outside of the courtroom this judge should change his ruling because Palm
13:08 Beach County said he was totally wrong and he was ruling based on them he ruled
13:16 we didn't even have a chance to testify I got a call that sir we lost part of
13:22 the case the trial didn't even start you know the trial starts I guess today he
13:28 ruled that we lost a big part of the case because he's a Democrat Club
13:33 politician he's a Democrat operative and he's a disgrace to people that call
13:39 themselves judges and I hope my lawyers go in and I hope they fight him very
13:45 hard because this guy's getting away with murder okay so I know Donald Trump's
13:51 been around the legal world for a long time I'm sure that his lawyers at the
13:55 very least if he didn't know already have explained what summary judgment
13:57 means where a judge can go in and make a decision if if he decides so and that's
14:02 what happened on a Friday and this trial is about again we've been talking about
14:06 this how much money he owes and whether he's gonna be able to maintain control
14:10 of his properties it's a bench trial is it a good idea to go after the judge
14:15 okay at the end of the day it doesn't matter okay right like to echo what
14:21 Ken and Tim were just talking about this is a performance for the campaign
14:26 audience this is Donald Trump not the defendant this is Donald Trump the
14:29 candidate let's be very clear here I was laughing when I was watching him because
14:33 I've had so many of these conversations before but it's truly sad because what
14:37 he's doing is he's capitalizing on the ignorance of the public that does not
14:42 necessarily understand how the legal system works like you already talked
14:45 about he knows because his attorneys explained to him and because he's not
14:49 unfamiliar with the courts what summary judgment is and why he's in the position
14:54 that he's in but his followers his acolytes his devotees they don't
14:58 understand that and he's capitalizing on that by making it seem as though he was
15:03 denied access to a legal trial and understand that this is a narrative that
15:07 we can fully expect to hear parroted and repeated by many people who aren't as
15:12 sophisticated but who do follow him and take his word as law as if to suggest
15:16 that because this judge is a Democratic person he's not someone who can be
15:21 trusted and and railroaded Donald Trump into not getting a fair trial Alina
15:26 Haba and some of the other attorneys Chris case as well got pretty
15:28 confrontational according to our reporters were inside the courtroom with
15:32 the judge arguing that Donald Trump didn't hurt anybody there was no harm
15:36 done there was no fraud arguing that the judge should really pay attention
15:39 because these these witnesses matter the evidence matters I guess insinuating
15:43 that he wasn't paying attention before and they're making some of the same
15:48 arguments that he's previously thrown out and scolded them reprimanded them
15:52 fine-tune them find a nation them for using what are those arguments and why
15:57 they still making them well these are the only arguments that they have
16:00 they're basically saying no harm no foul this is a victimless crime this if it is
16:04 a crime this is a victimless crime you're looking at this in the wrong way
16:08 my client is someone who's being targeted for who he is all of it
16:13 there is no statute of limitation that covers this the the Attorney General's
16:17 office does not have the standing in order to sue this any myriad number of
16:21 arguments they have taken everything that they've can and they throw it
16:25 against the wall just to see what will stick none of it has stuck and that's
16:28 why you saw sanctions issued last week with the judge's order who told them
16:33 very clearly you've made these arguments before they have not passed muster
16:39 before here are the reasons why they have not passed muster before and you've
16:43 been warned that if you continue to make them there will be problems because of
16:46 the fact that they do not cut legal muster and you did it again and so now
16:51 you're facing sanctions this is all they have they are going to appeal this of
16:55 course is there an argument that they can win do you see any any road or any
17:00 path for them to get this appealed and for him not to have to pay a fine or not
17:07 to have to give up his New York properties at this point I don't I think
17:11 that whatever the judgment is that ultimately is ordered as a result of
17:15 this bench trial may be the only thing that changes on appeal the amount of the
17:19 judgment if they can just decision the judgment I don't see that happening the
17:23 notion of the decision itself and the finding of fraud being reversed I highly
17:27 doubt that again I don't speak in absolutes but it's not something that I
17:30 can conceivably predict or see or believe would change upon appeal from
17:35 Donald Trump's attorney we've asked this before excuse me in other cases but
17:38 let's play a little bit of what Michael Cohen is alleging again he's one of the
17:42 the big witnesses for the prosecution once he loses the license within which
17:49 to operate the good standing of the certificates of incorporation that make
17:53 up what's called the Trump corporation the all not only is the main company now
18:00 going into the receivership but there are hundreds of other subsidiary
18:05 companies that additionally will ultimately go as part of the
18:09 receivership it is a financial catastrophe it is the death blow to
18:15 Donald he also argues that Donald Trump would value his properties because he
18:21 wanted to be higher up on the Forbes list so we'd inflate the value of his
18:24 properties to get higher up on that list Michael Cohen again we've asked this is
18:29 he a credible witness in this case and he's not Donald Trump's you know he's
18:34 not Allen Weisselberg sure it depends on who you ask and the reason I say that is
18:39 because at the end of the day a broken clock can be right twice a day Katie and
18:42 so even if you're looking at Michael Cohen is someone who at some point was
18:47 entrenched with Donald Trump in such a way that led him to find himself behind
18:51 bars that doesn't mean that he's not someone who knew and knows about the
18:56 inner workings of Trump world in such a way that he can provide honest truthful
19:00 and credible information and so as a former prosecutor I can tell you you
19:04 seldom have a witness that does not have some sort of challenges or
19:08 complications that you're going to put on the stand so this is not something
19:10 that you're unfamiliar with if you're just James's office you're prepared for
19:15 that it's just a matter of focusing on the fact that what he is testifying to
19:19 the information he's providing is something that he's know that he's
19:23 known that he would have been in a position to know and that he's telling
19:26 the truth everything else is background noise and that's what they're going to
19:28 try to make it seem he's also testifying under a Charles Coleman Charles always
19:33 good to have you nice to see you in person especially 209 House Democrats
19:40 voted to avert a government shutdown but only 126 House Republicans did
19:45 meaning speaker Kevin McCarthy a Republican passed the stopgap funding
19:50 bill relying on those across the aisle we've been talking a lot about what
19:54 would happen if McCarthy had to lean on the Democrats for help and now we know
19:58 fewer than 24 hours after the measure passed congressman Matt Gaetz vowed to
20:03 try and vote McCarthy out of the speaker's office and yet curiously today
20:08 instead of calling for a vote he kept on threatening one so mr. speaker just tell
20:16 us just tell us what was in the secret Ukraine side deal what commitments were
20:23 made to press to President Biden to continue the spending of President Biden
20:29 in exchange for doing things for President Biden it is becoming
20:33 increasingly clear who the Speaker of the House already works for and it's not
20:39 the Republican conference mr. speaker I would ask that these questions be
20:44 answered soon because there may be other votes coming today or later this week
20:51 that could could be implicated by the answers to these questions so the vote
20:59 eventually does come if it does do those same Democrats come to Kevin McCarthy's
21:04 aid and if so why joining us now is NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan
21:09 Nobles I said I say this is still a big if because we haven't yet seen it but
21:13 let's talk about what the Democrats are strategizing here because more Democrats
21:18 voted for the CR than Republicans did and there is the question about was
21:22 there a backroom deal was there any sort of deal for Kevin McCarthy if his
21:27 speakership comes into question and he needs to rely on Democrats at the table
21:32 it or not show up to vote at all meaning that he would get a majority of
21:35 Republicans do we know of any deal that exists no in fact Kevin McCarthy's said
21:41 explicitly that there is no deal and you know the Democrats that I've talked to
21:45 both publicly and privately have said that there's never been any specific
21:49 outreach from Kevin McCarthy in terms of Democrats rescuing him should there be a
21:53 motion to vacate and Katie you laid it out pretty well you can make an
21:57 argument for and against if you're a Democrat about the reasons why you
22:00 should keep Kevin McCarthy in his position as Speaker of the House or
22:04 there's reasons to throw him overboard as well and I do genuinely believe at
22:08 least in the conversations that I've had is that Democrats are wrestling with
22:12 this decision and I think before they come right out and make their stance
22:16 known they want to see if Matt Gaetz is actually gonna make good on this threat
22:19 because he's been threatening this for a long time he's done a lot of TV
22:22 interviews he's gone everywhere he possibly can to put himself out there
22:25 but he's yet to actually take that provocative step of putting a motion to
22:29 vacate on the floor so there's really no benefit and Democrats showing their
22:32 cards in this showdown until Matt Gaetz actually takes that step but I think it
22:37 is pretty clear that behind the scenes they're weighing all possible options so
22:41 I say it's an if because it's not entirely clear that Matt Gaetz has
22:45 enough Republicans on his side to put this up for a vote and then be
22:48 successful in ousting him and I've heard this a couple times now from a couple
22:52 Republican members that Matt Gaetz would have to do exactly what he's accusing
22:56 Kevin McCarthy of doing in order to oust Kevin McCarthy which is go to the
23:01 Democrats for support on this that Matt Gaetz would need Democratic votes to get
23:05 Speaker McCarthy out of the speakership that seems to be a talking point that's
23:10 coming out of some Republicans about what might happen next
23:13 yeah I mean that's simple math right Katie I mean at the very least you know
23:19 there's maybe five six Republicans that want to see Kevin McCarthy gone there's
23:23 more than 200 that are certainly gonna vote to keep him in place now five is
23:28 enough if all the Democrats get on board and support this motion and so it would
23:33 be Democrats ultimately that would be the bulk of people removing Kevin
23:36 McCarthy from office so it is quite the paradox that Matt Gaetz finds himself in
23:40 he's accusing Kevin McCarthy of working with Democrats that's why he wants to
23:44 boot him out but if he gets booted out it's gonna be because Democrats are the
23:47 ones with most of the votes behind that and and I think that's why you're seeing
23:50 both of these sides trying to you know figure out the best path forward here I
23:54 mean against the backdrop of all this Katie is that there's another huge
23:58 deadline coming up of November 17th and they've got to pass 12 appropriations
24:02 bills I'm wondering if Democrats think that it's worth it to add to the chaos
24:07 by kicking Kevin McCarthy out of the speakership when even though it's been
24:10 difficult they have been able to work with him to get a debt ceiling passed to
24:15 get this 45-day extension passed so you know there's pros and cons no doubt in
24:19 this entire matter and you know what we're gonna get to do this all over
24:22 again and I think it's 44 days now 43 days now it's really exciting thank you
24:30 very much thanks also happening today California governor Gavin Newsom made
24:34 good on his promise to appoint a black woman to late senator Dianne Feinstein's
24:38 seat the head of Emily's list LaFonza Butler is expected to be sworn in on
24:44 Wednesday joining us now is KQED political correspondent and co-host of
24:49 the political breakdown podcast Marisa Locos Marisa it's really good to have
24:53 you who is LaFonza Butler? Great to be here. Well actually and I should correct one thing
24:59 they're now saying she's going to be sworn in tomorrow because there is of
25:04 course Senator Dianne Feinstein is being laid to rest Thursday so they're
25:08 hurrying this all up but to get to your question she is a longtime labor leader
25:13 here in California she ran the statewide SEIU that represents nursing home
25:18 workers and home health care workers for about a decade she actually advised
25:22 Kamala Harris when she was running for president before she came on to the
25:26 Biden ticket she has worked at Airbnb and consulted in the private sector for
25:31 a bit and she is a Democratic powerhouse as you said for the last few years she's
25:35 been raising money for pro-chase Democratic women candidates through
25:39 Emily's list and so it's a surprise but I think it's a really interesting pick
25:45 by the governor I think he really checked a lot of boxes here that you
25:50 know gosh knows he was getting all of the lobbying the last few days over.
25:54 It's interesting that he didn't set any preconditions for instance he doesn't
25:58 say that she cannot run for the open Senate seat after he appoints her and
26:04 there were questions about whether he'd do that because there is already a
26:07 pretty heated race for that Senate seat among some pretty well-known Democrats
26:12 in California. Yeah I mean this really I think in some ways is the governor kind
26:18 of flexing his muscle and exercising his independence I mean as you said you had
26:22 Oakland congressman Barbara Lee a black woman in her 70s whose allies had pushed
26:27 really hard for her to be appointed since he had made that promise on MSNBC
26:31 a few years ago that it would be a black woman if Dianne Feinstein didn't
26:35 complete her term but this is also in some ways a loss for former speaker
26:40 Nancy Pelosi you know she's been a very vocal supporter of LA congressman Adam
26:46 Schiff who's running and then Katie Porter from Orange County is also
26:50 running this really does scramble things and it does exactly sort of go back on
26:55 his word but he has said that he didn't want to put a sum on the scale when
27:00 these candidates were already running this race I mean this certainly will
27:04 give Butler a huge leg up to be an incumbent if she decides to run. And we're
27:08 out of time but I want to ask you about where she lives Maryland isn't there
27:12 some talk about her actually living in Maryland but maybe still being registered to vote in California?
27:17 She is re-registering in California she still owns a house in LA her wife and
27:22 daughter and she moved to Maryland in 2021 they say all the legal experts
27:27 we've talked to you said it won't be an issue but it could be a political
27:29 question. Got it. Marisa Lagos thank you so much for joining us today we
27:34 appreciate it. My pleasure. The Supreme Court returned to the bench today and if
27:41 you thought issues on guns, abortion, gerrymandering, social media or federal
27:45 oversight were settled think again. Each are either back on the docket or
27:50 expected to make their way back this term testing how far the court 6-3
27:55 conservative supermajority is willing to go on some of the country's most
27:59 important and yet controversial issues. Decisions that will also test the public
28:04 support of the high courts authority. New Gallup polling shows a near record low
28:09 of Americans just 41% approve of the way the Supreme Court is handling its
28:15 job. Joining us now is Slate Magazine senior writer Mark Joseph Stern good to
28:19 have you back Mark. Give us a preview a primer on what to expect this term. This
28:25 is going to be an extraordinary term and the Supreme Court is essentially going
28:29 to have to face the consequences of its own actions. It's been handing down so
28:34 many conservative decisions and the lower courts especially the Fifth
28:38 Circuit have really been running with those decisions and pushing the limits
28:41 of how far the justices will go. So we have a case asking whether domestic
28:46 abusers have a right to bear arms, asking whether the federal judiciary should
28:51 blow up the SEC and the CFPB, asking almost certainly whether the court
28:57 should outlaw medication abortion nationwide and so many more kind of barn
29:02 burners. This is a real reckoning and I think John Roberts is in the hot seat
29:07 now because he's enabled so much of this slide to the right and he's gonna see
29:11 if he can control the pace of this revolution. When are we expecting to see
29:15 the abortion decision? So the court has not formally taken up this abortion case
29:20 but it will. It has already waited in halting the Fifth Circuit's decision
29:25 that attempted to strictly limit access to abortion pills. The full court will
29:30 probably grant the case within the next few weeks if not months and render a
29:35 decision sometime before June and that means that for most if not all of this
29:39 term it will be an open question whether people in blue states where abortion is
29:45 perfectly legal will retain their access to safe and effective medication
29:50 abortion or whether unelected judges will pull it off the shelves. It's also
29:54 going to be a test of the way that we approve our drugs and what can be and
29:59 whether that gets rolled back for a lot of different drugs including say Viagra.
30:02 Let me ask you about ethics. There is a lot of questions about whether the
30:07 justices are going to take up a code of ethics or written code of ethics. Do you
30:11 have any expectation that's going to happen? Well I'll tell you I was
30:15 surprised this morning that Justice Thomas did recuse himself from a
30:19 January 6th related case in which John Eastman, one of his former clerks, had
30:25 tried to block the release of documents to the January 6th committee that
30:29 actually mentioned Clarence Thomas. This was the first time he's ever recused
30:34 from a January 6th case and in previous instances he's actually weighed in and
30:38 tried to hamper the January 6th committee so perhaps he's starting to
30:43 get the memo. I'm not sure. He didn't provide a reason even though the Chief
30:48 Justice claimed that the court would begin providing a reason for accusals
30:52 Justice Thomas decided not to but you know if that's an indication then maybe
30:57 there's some movement behind the scenes. Justice Kagan really came out swinging
31:02 this summer in a series of talks where she said the court should adopt ethics
31:05 rules and binding rules that can be enforced but that there were still some
31:10 holdouts behind the scenes. I don't think it's it's a big mystery who those are
31:14 it's people like Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito who are the very justices that
31:19 create a need for ethics rules in the first place. So again this is going to be
31:23 the Chief Justice trying to work his magic behind the scenes trying to cobble
31:28 together a unanimous support for ethics rules and reminding his colleagues look
31:33 if we don't do this and write it ourselves there is a real chance that
31:37 Congress is going to step in and I would rather write this than have Democratic
31:41 senators be the ones behind the wheel. Listen 41% of Americans say that they're
31:45 not doing a good job 41% according to a Gallup poll and part of the reason is
31:49 not just these big controversial decisions that may seem out of step with
31:53 the majority of Americans but also the fact that there doesn't seem to be a
31:56 code of ethics and we've learned that from reporting that we've seen in the
31:59 past six months. Mark thank you so much for for coming on I appreciate it and
32:04 coming up the UAW just made a tentative deal with Volvo what pressure it puts on
32:09 the big three.
32:12 The UAW appears to have made a last-minute deal with Volvo to avoid a
32:19 strike of Mack truck factories. About 4,000 workers represented by the UAW
32:24 reached a temporary agreement which puts pressure on the big three. That strike
32:30 against the big three is now in its third week affecting 40 assembly plants
32:35 with more than 25,000 UAW workers. Joining us now is NBC News correspondent
32:40 Maggie Vespa. So does this put pressure on them this Volvo deal and how so?
32:46 The big three aren't saying in short Katie I mean you know from the outset
32:50 they've been always focused regardless of the optics regardless of the outside
32:54 factors and that includes last week's visit by President Biden and former
32:57 President Trump that they are only focused on their negotiations that
33:00 nothing from the outside is going to impact that but of course union members
33:03 hope yeah this sets an example that another automaker can come to an
33:07 agreement with the United Auto Workers Union. I should note we don't have any of
33:12 the details in fact the source familiar with the negotiations from the Union
33:16 standpoint says we're not going to see those until members have a chance to
33:20 review this deal with Mack Trucks and for those not familiar Mack Trucks is
33:24 largely a commercial trucking company but yeah the Union very hopeful its
33:29 members on the picket lines we've been speaking to for weeks very hopeful that
33:32 this kind of puts a little bit of at least PR type pressure on the big three
33:36 showing hey another company can reach deal with us why can't you so we'll see
33:40 if this indeed has an impact Katie. Maggie Vespa, Maggie thank you very much
33:44 and how exactly is the economy doing? There are a lot of good signs and a few
33:50 not so good signs one of them being the feel of things three out of four
33:54 Americans rate the economy is not so good or poor why? Joining us now is NBC
34:00 News business and data reporter Brian Chung we keep asking this question even
34:04 though there are so many signs that show us the economy is doing pretty well why
34:08 is it so persistently negative when we ask people how they feel it's doing? Yeah
34:12 Katie another way of putting is that the vibe seem kind of weird and indeed it is
34:16 because it's a weird economy so when we take a look at the two major measures of
34:19 how the economy is doing you want to look at jobs and you won't look at
34:21 prices so employment things are good that's why I put it in green here 3.8
34:25 percent that's essentially near over 50 year lows but inflation is high we all
34:30 feeling that at the store right 3.7 percent economists say where it would
34:33 really be healthy is somewhere closer to 2% but what we have to remember here is
34:38 that the big story for a lot of Americans was that the rate of
34:40 inflation was higher than the rate that your wages were going up which meant
34:45 that any raises you got were eroded by higher prices that story changed now
34:49 wages are going up by 4.3 percent on a yearly basis and prices are going up by
34:54 3.7 percent on a yearly basis but that change only happened in the summer
34:58 people have been going over a year without having any sort of wages that
35:03 could keep up with inflation this is by the way a chart of the prediction for
35:06 how the economy could grow you could see right now 1.3 percent would be the
35:11 estimate from Goldman Sachs over how much the economy is going to grow at the
35:14 end of this year that's slower than the previous quarters that we had seen in
35:18 the later part of last year and the beginning of this year one reason
35:21 savings savings savings people are drawing down on their bank accounts
35:24 because of how high inflation had eroded our earnings earlier in the year we'll
35:29 have to see if that picture changes when we get to 2024. Brian Chung, Brian thank
35:33 you very much and coming up next what happens to Ukraine if Congress
35:38 passes the Senate with a majority of the votes in favor of the new administration.
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