Morning Joe 10_3_23 - Breaking News Oct 3, 2023
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00:00 recap of day one in Donald Trump's civil fraud trial in New York City.
00:05 Part of that is the punishment phase.
00:07 We'll tell you about the moment that seemed to enrage the former president.
00:12 Also ahead the latest on Kevin McCarthy's speakership battle as a far-right Republican
00:16 forces a vote in the House to decide his fate, whether he keeps his job as speaker or whether
00:22 Democrats will step in to bail him out just to keep the government running.
00:27 I think Democrats will.
00:29 Are people falling down?
00:30 Are you okay, Willie?
00:31 What's happening up in there?
00:32 We've got some equipment moving.
00:33 Everybody's in place now.
00:34 We're getting ready.
00:35 Once the show starts, we'll be ready to set.
00:36 I just didn't know if Ramil was running from one set to another.
00:44 You should talk, Mr. Two-Minutes-Late.
00:45 He's here.
00:46 Elise is here.
00:47 We're good.
00:48 Yeah.
00:49 We're ready.
00:50 We're ready now.
00:51 Game on.
00:52 All good.
00:53 Well, I'll tell you, Mika, no one can ever, ever accuse me if I'm late of running to
00:57 set.
00:58 I'm not.
00:59 It's more of a stagger than a run.
01:03 Yeah.
01:04 A stagger.
01:05 Yeah.
01:06 With a Sinatra hat on, smoking a cigarette, a drink, put it down.
01:10 Yeah.
01:11 Okay.
01:12 We'll go over there.
01:13 So it's very nice.
01:14 Always nice.
01:15 The late night guys.
01:17 It's great that they came back.
01:21 I mean, Jimmy Fallon, really excited.
01:26 As excited as the guy who went to see Beetlejuice with Warren Bobert.
01:30 That's saying something.
01:32 What's nice is you got five months of pent-up jokes.
01:35 So they've been sitting at home writing these things.
01:38 Oh, we missed this one.
01:39 We missed this one.
01:40 So they kind of emptied the chamber of the summer jokes yesterday.
01:43 And a lot going on in politics, as Stephen Colbert mentioned, several indictments since
01:47 they were last on TV.
01:49 Yeah.
01:50 You know, I heard something interesting yesterday.
01:54 I was watching, as you know I do, Willie, on the way down to the orphanage.
01:58 I was looking at Instagram reels, and I think that's what the kids do.
02:04 Family lunch, stuff like that.
02:06 Of course, they've already got my algorithms down.
02:11 It's Nick Saban yelling at the press.
02:16 It's Will Ferrell clips.
02:18 But it's also some SNL clips.
02:20 And they were asking Dana Carvey, who the best, just speaking of comedians, who the
02:25 best person was for Weekend Update.
02:30 And of course, there have been incredible people for Weekend Update.
02:33 I don't know if you've seen this clip, but, you know, starting with Chevy Chase, but my
02:36 gosh, Norm MacDonald, go down the list.
02:40 And he actually said, he said, "Dennis Miller."
02:43 He goes, "I understand all the politics of this."
02:47 He said, "I was on a ride with Dennis, and he's sitting in the back seat, and he's got
02:54 a notepad.
02:55 And we're like driving like a couple miles, and he's just sitting there writing, you know,
03:00 we're like, 'What are you doing?'
03:01 He goes, 'Oh, I'm just writing jokes.'
03:02 And he read him the jokes, and he said they all could have gone on any show, anywhere
03:09 at any time."
03:10 So, again, a fabulously, fabulously talented actor, who, of course, we don't hear that
03:18 much from anymore.
03:19 Oh, so funny.
03:21 And so great in that chair.
03:22 You mentioned Norm MacDonald, too.
03:25 His head writer on Weekend Update, Jim Downey, was on Conan's podcast this week.
03:30 And it's worth, if you love comedy, you love SNL, it's worth a listen, because he goes
03:34 through and sort of step by step walks through how you write those jokes, and why Norm was
03:38 so funny and good.
03:39 And it is, if you go down the list, you know, you've got Seth Meyers, Tina and Amy.
03:44 I mean, that has been a cradle of greatness for a very long time.
03:48 And Dennis Miller truly was one of the funniest guys in the world.
03:52 Still is.
03:53 All right, well, now we're going to get to things that are unfunny, and that is our top
03:58 story this morning, one of many.
04:00 The longest serving White House Chief of Staff for Donald Trump, offering his harshest criticism
04:06 yet of his former boss, John Kelly, sent in a statement to CNN, which he backs up many
04:12 of the stories recounted recently of Trump lashing out against US service members and
04:18 veterans.
04:19 Kelly confirms Trump didn't want wounded veterans in a military parade planned for Independence
04:26 Day because it, quote, "doesn't look good for me," meaning Donald Trump saying that.
04:32 Kelly also says Trump, quote, "rants that our most precious heroes who gave their lives
04:37 in America's defense are losers and wouldn't visit their graves in France."
04:44 Kelly then appears to comment on Trump's most recent attack on General Mark Milley, in which
04:49 the former president suggests he be punished by death.
04:53 Kelly describes Trump as, quote, "a person who cavalierly suggests that a selfless warrior
04:59 who has served his country for 40 years in peacetime and war should lose his life for
05:04 treason in expectation that someone will take action."
05:09 In expectation that someone will take that action.
05:15 For him.
05:16 Yeah.
05:17 Like January 6th.
05:18 Yeah.
05:19 That someone will kill, as the general said, he says it in expectation that someone will
05:24 kill Milley for him.
05:26 So the statement ends with Kelly saying Trump is a, quote, "person that has nothing but
05:31 contempt for our democratic institutions, our Constitution, and the rule of law.
05:36 There is nothing more that can be said.
05:40 God help us."
05:43 Kelly served as chief of staff from 2017 to 2019.
05:47 He has criticized Trump before, but this statement marks the first time these comments have been
05:51 confirmed by Kelly, who was present at the time they were made.
05:56 Of course, the chief of staff is right in there and sees everything all day, every day,
06:03 and gets a real firm sense of the situation, which is why that expectation line is chilling
06:10 and something we believe to be true and makes the support for Trump out there all the more
06:15 concerning.
06:16 Well, it's obvious.
06:17 I mean, it's obvious what Donald Trump wants people to do when he talks about, they said
06:20 they should be killed, they should be executed, they should be this, they should be that.
06:23 I don't think it's obvious to everyone.
06:26 It is.
06:27 It's obvious that that's what Donald Trump wants to do.
06:30 And I'm glad the general said it.
06:32 But you look at these just horrific statements, Willie.
06:36 There was questions before when they first won the Atlantic, I believe in early 2020,
06:41 maybe 2019, who they were about.
06:44 Was it John Kelly?
06:45 A lot of people thought it was.
06:47 But who said it's really not as important as what was said by Donald Trump.
06:52 And it goes all the way back to John McCain, obviously calling John McCain a loser for
06:56 being a POW who sacrificed for his band of brothers who refused to leave Vietnam, even
07:02 though he could have because his father was connected.
07:04 And just think about that.
07:06 Donald Trump uses his connections to have a doctor lie about bone spurs.
07:12 John McCain uses his connections to stay in Hanoi, being beaten and tortured so badly
07:19 that he can't even raise his arms above his shoulders for the rest of his life because
07:23 he refuses to go home before everybody else that came in with him in that prison cell
07:32 in Vietnam.
07:33 And it goes on to, of course, he's at Normandy, one of the most sacred places, and he's not
07:38 wanting to visit.
07:40 It's raining.
07:41 He doesn't want to get out.
07:42 He doesn't want to visit the markers, the tombs of soldiers and sailors and airmen and
07:48 marine who died because, well, they died.
07:51 So he considers them losers.
07:53 And at one point he turns to General Kelly, who lost his son, and says, why would anybody
07:58 do this?
08:00 Why would anybody, why would anybody sacrifice their life for this country?
08:06 What's in it for them, he wondered.
08:09 What's in it for them?
08:10 I mean, again, this is just one more example, one more example of these people who once
08:16 claimed to be the most righteous, who claimed to be the most patriotic, who claimed to be
08:22 the most supportive of the military, lining up behind a man who is the antithesis of everything
08:29 that they grew up believing was right.
08:31 But now they are behind him in this personality cult.
08:36 Yeah, and that McCain moment that you referenced is such an important one.
08:40 That was back in July of 2015.
08:43 Important because it gave us a sign of what was coming, which is to say he did something
08:47 unthinkable, especially within the Republican Party, trashing John McCain, specifically
08:51 his heroism in war.
08:54 And his support went up.
08:55 And in that moment we talked about it here and we talked about it privately.
08:58 We said, hmm, something different is happening here.
09:01 And to your point, these are the men and women that we hold most sacred in this country.
09:06 And as you say, Republicans always have defended the military.
09:09 And we present this to Trump supporters.
09:12 How can you defend this?
09:13 They'll say, well, it was the media.
09:15 He probably didn't say that.
09:17 I don't know.
09:18 Now we have General Kelly, Jonathan Lemire, on the record in that statement to CNN saying,
09:22 yeah, everything you read in those Atlantic pieces, two of them, that's true.
09:25 I was there.
09:26 Those things happen.
09:27 He did trash war heroes.
09:28 He trashed the military dead.
09:30 He didn't understand why they would sacrifice what was in it for them, a fundamental misunderstanding
09:35 of the military, a fundamental misunderstanding of patriotism.
09:39 And yet you can expect that internally in a Republican primary, at least among his supporters,
09:44 this will have no impact on the way they view Donald Trump.
09:47 Now, Kelly has been known to cooperate on background with journalists for some time.
09:51 But it is noteworthy that he decided this is a moment to put his name to it.
09:55 We know that he had some success as chief of staff keeping Trump in line for a matter
09:59 of months, and then that quickly went away.
10:01 It was indeed the battle.
10:02 There's a foundational battle for the Marine Corps, Belleau Wood in France, that basically
10:07 as many Marines think, that's sort of where they began, their origin story.
10:13 And Donald Trump was dismissive and refused to go to the funeral that day because it was
10:17 raining.
10:18 He didn't want to get his hair messed up.
10:19 And that, Kelly has told people, was sort of the last straw for him when he realized
10:22 what sort of person Donald Trump really was.
10:24 Will this make any difference?
10:26 I highly doubt it.
10:27 Hundreds who worked for Donald Trump in the national security establishment who have spoken
10:31 out against him, General Mattis, General McMaster, John Bolton, the list goes on and on.
10:37 They have all forcefully condemned Trump's leadership, his patriotism, and his character.
10:44 We know what Rex Tillerson thought of him as well.
10:45 We can't say it on family-friendly television, however.
10:48 But none of that has led to a drop in support of all.
10:51 Though we should all take in, at least, this idea that these are the people who worked
10:56 with Donald Trump day after day in the most sensitive, important moments of his presidency.
11:01 They're the ones who knew him best.
11:02 And much like we saw at the January 6th trials, much like we're starting to see now at these
11:06 criminal proceedings, those who spent the most time with Trump are saying he is unfit
11:11 to hold that office again.
11:13 You know, and John Kelly always seemed to have somewhat of a paying public posture when
11:18 he would be out in public, with the exception of John Kelly himself had a pretty bad episode
11:23 when it was the slain husband of the widow.
11:28 It was David Johnson and Najjar.
11:30 And the fight started when Trump was, this was just in my mind the absolute worst episode,
11:36 when he was picking on the widow whose husband had died, you know, a week earlier.
11:41 That was, that to me was just, oh, this is what Trump thinks of our military.
11:45 He cares so little for the loved ones of those who have fallen in battle that he literally
11:51 will belittle them in the aftermath of that loss.
11:55 And so this is nothing new.
11:56 We know the level of respect that Trump has for basically anyone but himself.
12:02 And we see it.
12:03 We see the contempt in which he holds those who choose to volunteer for service for their
12:08 country.
12:09 And so this is, this tells us nothing new.
12:11 It just is, it reminds us of the man's fundamental character.
12:15 I do think, Willie, that if this continues, taken together, I do think General Kelly,
12:24 who served this country proudly and ably for so long, who lost a son, sacrificed his son
12:32 for this country.
12:35 General Kelly, General Mattis, who again, another war hero, another man that Trump was
12:42 just so thrilled to have come before him, General McMaster.
12:46 I do think if these generals do come out and do speak out and do speak out publicly on
12:55 camera and do have it make a concerted effort between now and next year to talk about just
13:04 how unfit Donald Trump is to run for office and to be president of the United States again,
13:10 be commander in chief again, I do think Trump's generals, so to speak, the people we were
13:16 talking about back in January of 2017, Trump's generals all coming out, condemning him for
13:23 all the horrific things he said about our men and women in uniform in this country.
13:28 I do actually believe that is one thing that could have an impact with the cult, with people
13:33 that are cheering and laughing about Nancy Pelosi's spouse getting his head bashed in.
13:39 No, no.
13:40 But with voters that are going to actually decide this election in the suburbs of Atlanta
13:45 and the suburbs of Philly, the suburbs of Detroit and suburbs of Milwaukee.
13:51 We may well hear more now from General Milley.
13:53 He was somewhat restrained as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but he may be
13:57 able to come out and say more, except for that 60 Minutes interview last week as well.
14:02 And Joe, for people like us who revere the people who've served this country and who
14:08 try to lift up injured members of the military and help them, the comments most recently
14:13 in Jeffrey Goldberg's Atlantic piece were particularly abhorrent, where he told General
14:18 Milley that after a man, a warrior who has lost his leg to an IED attack in Afghanistan
14:24 and suffered heart attacks and strokes because of it, had been through hell, saying, "God
14:29 bless America," that Donald Trump pulled Milley aside and said, "Nobody wants to see that."
14:33 Speaking of injured warriors and veterans.
14:36 And let that happen again.
14:38 How do you defend that?
14:40 How does that sit with you?
14:41 You're willing to excuse a lot of things about Donald Trump.
14:43 We get that over the last eight years or so.
14:46 But that, attacking a wounded warrior, how do you defend that?
14:51 And Will, you see this firsthand in all the work that you do.
14:55 These men and women are the best of who we are, the best who've gone over to protect
15:01 and defend this country, who, like Bob Dole, left a part of themselves in battle.
15:08 Like Bob Dole.
15:09 Donald Trump would call Bob Dole a loser.
15:12 They come back with injuries, and yet they stay together.
15:17 They keep fighting a new fight, a new cause.
15:22 And you see that every day.
15:25 These are our heroes.
15:26 They are, and it stays with them for the rest of their life.
15:28 And it's a reminder that Donald Trump is all about the superficial.
15:32 How does it look?
15:33 He's creating a play.
15:34 He's putting on a TV show.
15:35 And if it doesn't look just the way he wants it to, well, then the people who are ruining
15:40 it for him in his eyes are disposable, including hero military veterans.
15:46 And Gorin last week found Trump, his two oldest sons, and his company liable.
15:52 For fraud.
15:53 The former president sat with his arms crossed as his defense team and prosecutors.
15:58 Isn't he getting bored yet, being in so many courts?
16:01 No.
16:02 Like this one he does.
16:03 So this one actually has hit him where it hurts.
16:06 Because it's about his money, right?
16:07 There's a monitor being put in charge of his companies.
16:08 They're going to figure out whether or not they need to be dissolved.
16:12 Everything that this guy is made of, I would say he built, but he actually probably inherited
16:18 the equivalent of a billion dollars from his dad.
16:21 He inherited about, in terms of today's dollars, about 400 million.
16:26 Lost most of it.
16:27 Well, prosecutors from the New York Attorney General's office gave their opening statements.
16:33 Sitting just a few feet away from him was the attorney general herself, Letitia James,
16:38 who leered at Trump while cameras were briefly allowed inside the courtroom.
16:43 This was quite a scene.
16:45 I don't think everybody expected those cameras to be in there.
16:48 An attorney for Trump complained that the former president did want a jury to hear the
16:54 case.
16:55 The judge noted that his team had never asked for a jury trial.
16:59 After opening statements, prosecutors played taped depositions from Trump, his sons, his
17:04 former attorney Michael Cohen, and his company's former chief financial officer, Alan Weisselberg.
17:12 Then they called their first witness, a former accountant who spent several years handling
17:16 the former president's tax returns.
17:19 According to our team inside the courtroom, Trump seemed to take issue with some of what
17:24 was being said during the testimony and became extremely animated with his lawyers.
17:31 His face is said to have become beet red while he pointed and finger waved at his lawyers.
17:39 For the most part, though, Trump appeared subdued during the trial.
17:43 Outside the courtroom, though he was anything but, here is some of what he said to reporters
17:47 during a lunch break.
17:48 When you have a radical left attorney general like Letitia James, who's a disgrace to our
17:55 country, who got elected on the fact that she's going to take down President Trump, we're going to take him down.
18:05 This is called election interference and worse than that, really much worse than that.
18:09 And you don't get much worse than election interference.
18:12 I got a call last week, sir, we lost part of the case.
18:16 The trial didn't even start.
18:18 You know, the trial starts, I guess, today.
18:21 He ruled that we lost a big part of the case because he's a Democrat Trump politician.
18:28 He's a Democrat operative and he's a disgrace.
18:32 That's a really, really, I think, I wasn't in that part of my law school class on judge
18:41 trials, where the professor told you, if it's a judge trial and the judge is determining
18:50 your future, that it's best for you to insult him and call him a loser and attack him.
18:57 Again, it makes no sense.
18:59 As we were watching for 15 seconds yesterday, as Donald Trump was saying that this guy could
19:07 be arrested, should be arrested.
19:09 Of course, there's the threat, there's the intimidation.
19:13 If I get elected president, I'm going to arrest you is what Donald Trump's saying there.
19:18 But, you know, any other defendant in America in this position, really, that's already been
19:25 found guilty of fraud, the evidence is very clear against him.
19:29 You know, he's over exaggerating and everybody in New York had known for decades that this
19:33 is what he would do.
19:35 You would actually have somebody get on the stand and apologize, say, "Made mistakes,
19:40 I did this, I did that.
19:41 I am so sorry, your honor, I'm going to straighten this up.
19:45 We're going to put systems in place to take care of it and throw ourselves on the mercy
19:51 of the court to let you know we're not going to do this again.
19:54 We're going to make sure that anything that we file with tax authorities in New York State
20:01 and with banks is going to be correct.
20:03 And I know we fell far short of the mark."
20:06 But then you would have a judge saying, "Alright, this is a problem, we'll put your company
20:12 on probation, or however they do it."
20:15 But instead, you have Donald Trump who's been caught.
20:19 This is a bank robber that has been caught.
20:22 Or this is the congressman who's been caught in an am-scam with money in his pockets.
20:29 Like, jammed into his pockets, looking like the Michelin Man because he has so much money
20:34 jammed into his coat pockets.
20:36 Yelling and screaming about unfairly being prosecuted.
20:39 He's already been busted.
20:41 He's already been caught lying.
20:44 He's already been caught saying that he had a 30,000 square foot residence when it was
20:51 like 10,000 square feet.
20:53 Claiming that he had the most expensive property in all of New York City.
20:58 Well, that was a lie as well.
21:01 And what's he doing?
21:03 He's doing the exact opposite of what he should be doing.
21:08 He's continuing to drive his car off the cliff.
21:13 And leave his lawyers in a no-win position.
21:17 And then after it's over, he'll probably call for the execution of the judge.
21:21 Like he called for the execution of General Milley.
21:23 It is a zero-sum game and it's a game he loses every time.
21:29 And as you say, the facts and evidence are stacked against him.
21:32 So now all he has is to play that outside game where he goes outside the courtroom,
21:35 attacks the judge, attacks the prosecutors in this case.
21:38 And by the way, you can expect to see that same speech just cue it up every time he comes
21:42 out of one of these other courtrooms.
21:44 Attack the judge, attack the process.
21:46 That there's a witch hunt against him.
21:48 Some pretty extraordinary pictures on the covers of the newspapers here in New York
21:51 this morning. Looks like an ad for The Apprentice or something that face.
21:54 Wall Street Journal, a very similar photograph too of the tantrum outside the courtroom as
22:00 two police officers stand by.
22:02 Let's bring in Bloomberg legal and politics reporter Eric Larson.
22:04 He was in the court overflow room yesterday covering Trump's fraud trial.
22:08 And professor of law at Columbia, John C. Coffey Jr.
22:12 He's an expert on securities law and white collar crime.
22:14 And author of the book Corporate Crime and Punishment, the Crisis of Under Enforcement.
22:19 Good morning to you both, Eric. I'll start with you.
22:21 So you're in the overflow room.
22:22 Yes.
22:23 Getting a sense of how things are playing out in the courtroom.
22:25 How does this look right now for Donald Trump?
22:27 Well, I think the fact that he showed up actually, it's a position of strength for him,
22:32 which is kind of interesting.
22:33 I don't think anyone was actually expecting him to show up until just kind of the last minute.
22:36 And now we kind of see why.
22:38 He was able to do a lot of that grandstanding, give that big speech outside of the courtroom.
22:43 And every time there was a break in the trial, he was, you know, viciously attacking the judge
22:48 and the attorney general.
22:49 So this is, you know, helps him in part of his campaign, to be honest.
22:53 Like, as you said, he's already been found liable for fraud.
22:56 So the case is kind of in the state's favor pretty strongly.
23:01 And the judge clearly has accepted a lot of what the state has to say.
23:04 So what kind of defense are you hearing from his legal team, other than Letitia James is biased
23:09 and the judge is a Democrat?
23:10 Is there anything on the evidence where they're defending themselves?
23:13 Yes, they're focusing a lot on whether or not any banks were actually harmed by this alleged conduct.
23:19 You know, they're looking at these inflated financial statements, wildly inflated, according to the judge,
23:23 from 2011 to 2021, and saying that these were submitted to various banks, Deutsche Bank, others,
23:29 and to insurers to get better terms on loans and policies for years,
23:33 and that he reaped $250 million in illegal financial benefits as a result.
23:38 But he says that these banks were not harmed at all.
23:41 He paid back all these loans.
23:43 They actually made $100 million in interest off of him.
23:46 Both sides are calling bank employees as witnesses,
23:50 because they both think that they'll be able to back up what they say.
23:53 And at the end of the day, even though he has been found liable for fraud before the trial,
23:57 there are other significant claims, including falsified business records, things like that,
24:01 which the judge theoretically could still rule in his favor on.
24:05 So, Professor, let's set aside Trump's hysterics outside the courtroom
24:09 and talk about the merits of the case being tried within it.
24:13 What have you heard so far from both the state attorney general as well as Trump's defense team?
24:19 And how strong do you think these claims are?
24:23 We know he's been found liable, but for how much?
24:26 Well, I mean, he's appointed, the judge has appointed receivers who still have to be named
24:33 who are supposed to liquidate all these companies that are within Trump's organizations.
24:38 The one thing I think you're missing is that, petulant and silly as Trump seems,
24:43 he's probably being rational from his own perspective,
24:46 because he wants to exploit this trial as an opportunity to show again
24:51 that he is the victim of political persecution.
24:54 That's been his main theme, and it's actually raised his popularity in the Republican primaries.
25:00 So he's figured out that, "I'm going to go to this trial."
25:03 He almost never has gone to civil trials.
25:06 But he's doing it because this is a way to raise his theme
25:10 that there's a persecution going on, and you should raise an arm and support me
25:15 because we're being attacked by the evil government.
25:18 And what still has to be decided in this case?
25:22 And how long the punishment phase of what has been decided could take?
25:27 Well, the judge has said that this trial is going to go until December 22nd.
25:32 So we can expect a lot of evidence on whether or not these six remaining claims Trump is liable for,
25:39 whether or not he conspired to falsify these business records,
25:43 whether or not they were used in specific transactions in a way that harms these banks,
25:48 and then insurance fraud is another claim in there as well.
25:51 But then there will have to be more arguments on whether or not the full $250 million has to be disgorged
25:57 and whether or not Trump and his two sons, who are also defendants,
26:00 would be banned from being directors or officers of any New York-based company.
26:04 And as the professor just said, there's this whole other aspect that has to be decided
26:10 outside the trial on this fraud claim that's already been against Trump.
26:15 We really don't know how far that's going to go, what the full outcome will be.
26:19 Even Trump's lawyers don't know, and the judge hasn't really clarified
26:22 what it means that all of these companies are going to have to be dissolved once this receiver is put in place.
26:28 But right now, there are five more claims that the judge has to decide on liability for,
26:33 and then based on those, he'll go into the penalty phase.
26:37 So, professor, I spent the day listening to commentators who can't seem to get over their fealty to Donald Trump,
26:45 and one of the arguments they made was that, "Oh my gosh, if this attorney -- this is so political --
26:49 if this attorney general can do this to Trump's business, he can do it to your business, too."
26:54 I'm curious if you could put into context these fraud allegations that he's accused of,
27:01 and some he's been found liable for.
27:04 How do they compare to other white-collar crimes in their severity and their size?
27:10 We have to understand that the attorney general is operating under a unique statute
27:15 that authorizes her and no one else, not private plaintiffs, to dismantle,
27:21 to liquidate a company that is engaged in persistent fraud.
27:25 She does not have to prove that anyone has been damaged.
27:28 She only has to prove this company has persistently defrauded people, in this case, by inflating its assets,
27:35 and because you're a persistent fraud, we're going to throw you out of New York State.
27:39 That was the intent of the legislature, but this is a statute that applies only when the attorney general
27:44 brings the case.
27:46 I'm curious, from what you have seen, do you believe the Trump organization has been --
27:54 is it likely that they've been engaged in "persistent fraud"?
27:59 Well, I think the inflation of assets has been shown.
28:03 He granted summary judgment, and there was lots of evidence.
28:06 We've heard the stories about calling an 11,000-foot apartment a 30,000-foot apartment
28:12 so that you could get a higher valuation on it.
28:15 They are treating rent-controlled buildings as if they were the same as non-rent-controlled buildings.
28:21 That's the way to inflate assets.
28:23 The evidence there was pretty strong because he granted summary judgment,
28:26 and he's an experienced judge.
28:28 You don't grant summary judgment unless you believe there is no fact in this case
28:33 that really has to be further resolved.
28:35 It is all clear.
28:37 All that's really left now is the penalty.
28:41 Yeah, and that sounds certainly, Mika, through the years, like persistent fraud.
28:46 Professor at law at Columbia, John C. Coffey, Jr.
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29:39 I will use a scissor to cut the yarn.
29:41 I will make a magic ring.
29:44 Insert the hook into the loop.
29:53 Make a slip knot.
30:20 Pull the yarn through the loop.
30:23 Insert the hook into the first stitch of the magic ring.
30:40 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.
30:58 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.
31:27 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.
31:56 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.
32:09 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.
32:38 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.
33:07 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.
33:36 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.
33:52 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.
34:21 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.
34:50 Make 2 single stitches into the next stitch.