Hoosier Roundtable: Walt Bell Fired, Rod Carey Promoted
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00 Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Hoosier Roundtable podcast.
00:04 If you're listening or watching on our website,
00:07 you know exactly what this is about.
00:10 The Walt Bell era is finally over in Bloomington.
00:13 But before we get too far into that,
00:15 I'm going to introduce my wonderful co-host, Jack Ankeny.
00:18 Jack, how are you doing today?
00:19 Doing well, Daniel.
00:20 Lots to talk about, even though it's a bye week,
00:22 as always seems.
00:24 Something to talk about with this team
00:26 and just where everything is at.
00:27 So I'm looking forward to this.
00:29 There are certainly a lot of things that are happening.
00:32 There may not be good things,
00:35 may not be things people always want to talk about,
00:38 but there are things happening.
00:39 So yeah, obviously, the big news is,
00:42 as many people are probably like,
00:44 kind of, the call for might be strong,
00:47 but like a lot of people, like,
00:48 we're wondering when this might happen.
00:50 On Sunday, we get the press release that Walt Bell,
00:53 offensive coordinator for Coach Tom Allen
00:56 and Indiana Hoosiers, has been fired,
00:58 and that Rod Carey will be promoted to the role.
01:00 And as we'll get into a key detail here,
01:03 that is not an interim tag.
01:05 Like he was, correct me if I'm wrong,
01:06 he was interim offensive line coach last year, correct?
01:09 Yes.
01:10 And I guess one thing I will say about that is,
01:12 he doesn't carry the interim tag now
01:15 as offensive coordinator,
01:16 but I don't think that that completely means
01:20 that they, that like he's the guy for next year.
01:22 Like they could still do a search this off season.
01:26 It's just kind of a small detail with that,
01:28 but it is notable in and of itself.
01:31 You know, I think Tom Allen just,
01:33 he clearly thinks pretty highly of him
01:35 since he's promoted him in this kind of way
01:36 the last two off seasons.
01:38 So, you know, I was a little surprised
01:41 that it wasn't Anthony Tucker,
01:43 who's, who carries the COOC title,
01:46 or, you know, even Craig Johnson has the,
01:48 he has former offensive coordinator
01:52 and QB coach background.
01:55 So it was a little bit of a surprise,
01:56 but, you know, clearly Allen thinks highly of Kerry.
02:00 So we'll see what he can do.
02:01 Yeah, and I know I was joking with you that,
02:05 oh, and here's, I think what I was going to say,
02:07 and I know I told you this yesterday,
02:08 this was not the weirdest,
02:09 it's a weird coordinator situation,
02:11 obviously that's happened where it's just,
02:16 it is odd to see him not promoted as interim.
02:17 And I think what you're saying is right.
02:19 Whereas last year, probably it was just,
02:21 it was confirmed basically,
02:22 like, hey, Rod's not going to be
02:23 the offensive line coach full-time.
02:24 We just don't, we have to do something for now.
02:27 Right. But this one, it's at least like,
02:29 I think it's certainly showing
02:31 there's definitely a consideration
02:32 that he could just be the offensive coordinator
02:34 moving forward, even if it's not confirmed.
02:37 I did think I told you about this.
02:39 I think it was Georgia Tech after losing 38 to 27
02:41 to Bowling Green who demoted their defensive coordinator
02:44 to safeties coach.
02:45 He's still on staff and they promoted a different guy,
02:49 a different guy to defensive coordinator
02:52 from within the staff.
02:53 I don't know how that works.
02:54 - As far as the guys didn't quit.
02:56 - Yeah. Like imagine if you were promoted at your job,
03:00 like to like, I don't know,
03:01 regional or like corporate manager.
03:02 And then a few weeks later they said,
03:04 no, you're back down to like associate.
03:05 And this friend of yours, he's actually corporate manager.
03:08 I don't know how that work environment.
03:10 We won't go too deep in that, but I just,
03:12 that was funny enough for me to say that
03:14 everyone should know what happened
03:15 at Georgia Tech this past week.
03:16 So I think it's pretty funny.
03:17 But yeah, like, I mean,
03:22 there had obviously been a lot of rough offensive
03:24 performances this season and last season,
03:26 but Saturday's game in Maryland.
03:28 I mean, I was there in college parks,
03:29 just a brutal, brutal game.
03:31 And to be fair, not entirely just because of the offense,
03:33 the defense, which has been pretty good so far this year
03:36 had by far their worst performance in the gray area.
03:38 We don't have like specific press conferences
03:41 with like gray area now and right now,
03:42 because it's the bye week.
03:43 But I'm sure next time we get to talk to him,
03:46 he will take full responsibility and say like,
03:48 Hey, that was really bad on our part.
03:50 They just completely busted in coverage.
03:52 Right away.
03:52 And then an offense, I mean, the first drive is okay,
03:55 because they set up in good field position
03:57 by Jalen Lucas's return,
03:59 but really just did not do anything all game
04:01 until the very end where it just didn't matter anymore.
04:04 I think put a few drives together on source feed,
04:06 but yeah, it's just, it's the same thing.
04:08 We said the offense looks kind of lifeless.
04:10 Didn't look like they had an identity,
04:11 lost 11 yards on a fourth and one,
04:14 and one of the funnier play.
04:15 I understand if it's not funny for anyone listening
04:17 to this in Indiana football fan
04:19 from a neutral observer perspective,
04:20 it was like objectively pretty funny
04:22 to see a team lose that many yards on a fourth and one.
04:24 But like, I think the only thing,
04:27 I think you'll agree with me here, Jack,
04:28 the only thing that's really surprising
04:29 is just how quick Allen acted in firing Walt Bell.
04:33 But like at this point,
04:34 we all knew he was not making another season,
04:37 if not for a few more games.
04:38 So just, that's just kind of preliminary stuff there.
04:40 What do you have to say about it?
04:42 - Yeah. I mean, I was a little bit surprised
04:45 that it happened mid season.
04:48 That's not to say that it wasn't warranted
04:50 because I think when you look at some of the stats,
04:54 you know, last season,
04:56 Indiana was 10th in points per game,
04:59 12th in yards, and this is among 14 Big Ten teams,
05:02 12th in yards per game, 13th offensive efficiency.
05:05 And it got even worse this year,
05:08 20.8 points per game after 23.3 last year.
05:11 So things were not getting better
05:14 and they were probably getting even worse this season,
05:18 especially 'cause we saw some promise
05:20 in that second half against Louisville.
05:21 And then just really, you know,
05:24 one touchdown in four quarters against Akron,
05:26 you know, three points really
05:30 for the vast majority of the game
05:33 until they brought in Brendan Soresby
05:34 in the fourth quarter.
05:35 And he scored two touchdowns that,
05:38 I think Tom Allen even said after the game,
05:40 he's like, "Oh, well, you know,
05:41 it was against backups or something."
05:43 So, you know, it was good to see Soresby
05:46 at least be able to move the ball like that,
05:48 but obviously didn't impact the outcome of the game.
05:52 But in terms of the timing with Bell,
05:54 you know, I think when you look
05:56 at what his offenses have done,
05:58 you can say that, you know,
06:02 Allen's decision was warranted.
06:05 I was a little bit surprised that it came mid-season
06:08 just because, you know, in the past,
06:13 Allen has kind of, you know,
06:14 obviously last year he fired Hiller,
06:16 he fired Hiller mid-season,
06:17 but I think that was something that,
06:19 you know, people kind of,
06:21 I think the general perception is that
06:23 he might've waited too long to do that.
06:25 In 2021, he waited till the end of the season
06:29 to fire Sheridan.
06:30 And I kind of think what this move shows
06:32 from Allen's perspective
06:33 is that he has a sense of urgency
06:36 and he's not going to just let an issue linger
06:40 because he feels more pressure
06:42 to win this season, Allen does.
06:44 And I think if you continue things with Bell,
06:48 I think you were at a point where you could say,
06:50 you know, things might get a tiny bit better.
06:54 Maybe you get to three or four wins,
06:56 but things are not going to vastly improve
06:59 throughout the season where you can say,
07:02 you know, we want to stick with this guy.
07:03 So Allen knows he's got to win some games this year.
07:07 And I think that the move shows that
07:10 he's going to try something
07:12 you know, that doesn't mean that it's going to result
07:16 in some massive turnaround
07:17 because it's really hard to change a whole offense,
07:21 which I don't think Harry's even going to do that.
07:22 But it's hard to make these vast improvements mid-season.
07:27 They have the extra week with the bye week,
07:28 which I think may, if you were going to do it
07:31 during the season, this was the time to do it.
07:33 That's a great point.
07:35 I think that's probably the biggest justification
07:37 for why Allen did it now is that like,
07:38 hey, if Rod is actually, which now,
07:41 if Rod, if it's the exact same offense that Rod Carriage,
07:45 I mean, I wouldn't even blame Rod Carriage if it is,
07:46 it's hard to come up with an offense
07:47 when you haven't been like
07:48 given the whole summer to do it.
07:50 But if he was going to make wholesale changes
07:53 to the offense, like, hey,
07:54 we need two weeks to do this at least.
07:56 Like, so that would be probably
07:57 the best justification for the timing.
07:59 Right. Especially because, you know,
08:01 when you look at the schedule, you know,
08:04 Michigan, you're not going to win regardless
08:07 of who is offensive coordinator, you know,
08:10 by all accounts.
08:11 And then you have Rutgers,
08:12 and that's kind of one of the games that that's that,
08:14 you know, that's like a must win,
08:15 basically, for Indiana.
08:17 And so if you're going to make this move,
08:19 it makes sense to do it now,
08:20 where you can have two weeks to kind of prepare
08:23 before that Michigan game.
08:24 And you have a full game under your belt
08:26 before that Rutgers game,
08:28 which is very important just for kind of
08:29 the big picture outlook of the program.
08:33 You know, you wouldn't have wanted to make this move
08:34 after Michigan and then give a guy,
08:36 you know, one week to prepare for such a big game.
08:41 So while I was a little bit surprised
08:46 that it happened midseason,
08:48 this was definitely the time to do it.
08:49 And there's, you know, a long list of reasons,
08:52 kind of those stats that said
08:54 that Allen's move was warranted.
08:57 Whether that changes much, we'll see.
09:00 You know, I think it's really hard to,
09:05 even when you have an extra week
09:07 in the middle of the season
09:08 to really improve things vastly.
09:10 But, you know, that's what Kerry's going to be asked to do.
09:13 And I remember like last season
09:15 when he filled in for Hiller as offensive line coach,
09:19 you know, he was pretty brutally honest
09:22 in his press conference.
09:22 He's like, you know, I'm not a miracle worker.
09:24 I don't have some magic wand that,
09:26 you know, is automatically going to fix things.
09:29 And, you know, I think we're going to have a chance
09:31 to talk to him tomorrow.
09:32 And, you know, I wouldn't be surprised
09:35 if he said similar things.
09:38 - Yeah, so some of those stats you're mentioning just,
09:40 and we've said them before,
09:41 but like through week five,
09:43 like for some college football advance stats,
09:46 Indiana's offense out of 133 teams
09:49 and FBS was a hundred and seventh
09:52 in expected points added per play.
09:54 They were 70th in drop back pass,
09:58 like EPA per drop back pass,
10:00 which is bad, but not as bad as some of the other ones.
10:02 But then, yeah, as we've said
10:03 with the run first comments before,
10:05 they were 127th.
10:07 That clearly one of the worst rushing teams
10:10 in all of college football,
10:10 just designed runs in particular,
10:13 just could not get anything going at all.
10:16 And yeah, like, I think also I have here,
10:19 like their expected points added,
10:21 like for a whole season,
10:22 like per play since 2015.
10:25 And this Walt Bell's two seasons
10:26 were two of the three worst.
10:29 The only one that was worse than them
10:30 was 2021 under Nick Sheridan, even 2020.
10:33 Like, I mean, obviously 2020's team was good
10:35 under Sheridan, but they had a much higher one.
10:37 But it's like clear, like, yeah,
10:39 this is a very, very below average offense
10:42 the last two years.
10:42 So there's not really much justification
10:44 in the way of it.
10:45 - Yeah. And I thought the thing with Bell too,
10:48 is when you look at his offenses
10:50 from the last two seasons,
10:51 like last year they bring in Bazelak
10:53 and Bell tries to run this,
10:56 you know, super up-tempo,
10:58 snap the ball is almost as fast as possible,
11:01 you know, throw it about 40 times a game.
11:04 Like I think Bazelak was second
11:06 in the Big Ten in pass attempts
11:07 and he only played 10 games.
11:09 - I was gonna say, I was gonna say real quick,
11:11 I think a good way to measure that is
11:13 their big non-conference loss last year to Cincinnati.
11:17 I think Indiana ran 103 plays in that game.
11:20 When they lost to Ohio State this year,
11:21 they ran 54.
11:22 - Right. So it's hard to say, like,
11:26 you know, he was never able to establish,
11:28 like, this is what our offense does.
11:32 This is what we want to be good at.
11:34 And I get the personnel is different.
11:37 Like Bazelak is a different quarterback
11:39 than Taven and Dexter.
11:40 And I guess to Bell's credit,
11:43 like they had some success
11:44 towards the end of last year with Dexter,
11:46 but, you know, that's one or two games.
11:48 That's a very small sample size
11:50 compared to the rest of his work.
11:52 So I think kind of when you look back
11:55 at just his short tenure here,
11:58 just about a year and a half,
12:00 you know, he tried to do a lot of things
12:02 and none of it really was able to work.
12:06 This year, he talked about wanting to be
12:08 a run first team with an option element.
12:10 You know, the option really never worked.
12:13 You know, kind of last year,
12:14 it did a little bit with Dexter and Jalen,
12:16 but this year it didn't seem like Taven
12:18 or even Soresby was too comfortable running it.
12:22 And it didn't seem like Indiana
12:24 had the offensive line to block for it.
12:26 So there always seemed to be kind of this
12:30 struggle for Bell to figure out
12:33 what the team can do well.
12:36 - Again, it goes back to the chunky meme,
12:38 figure out what you do.
12:39 You're so right.
12:42 There was no clear defined philosophy
12:45 they wanted to stick to.
12:46 It was, oh, this didn't work, I'll try this.
12:48 And it is right that you should probably
12:50 try and make adjustments if things aren't working,
12:52 but it's just so clear.
12:54 It's like three different quarterbacks,
12:56 four different quarterbacks of Soresby basically
12:58 trying different things.
12:59 - I've totally even played a little last year.
13:01 - Yeah, but I'm mainly saying guys who started.
13:03 - Right, I got you.
13:03 - No, but like the, just trying everything different.
13:08 Yeah, it's what could you say that Indiana did and did well?
13:12 The only thing we could certainly say
13:14 they wanted to do was run triple option kind of,
13:16 and they did not do it well, very well at all.
13:19 There was no identity, no understanding of,
13:22 and you know, maybe there's a chance
13:25 like that the skill talent we've overrated,
13:27 and especially the offense line
13:28 could still be struggling enough that, like we said,
13:30 like when they play Michigan this week,
13:32 I don't, even if they had Kyle Shanahan calling plays,
13:35 I don't know if it would be good enough.
13:36 They are just at a big talent gap,
13:38 but it's clear that if they want to be good,
13:42 that whatever Bell was doing was not working.
13:44 It's just not gonna be good enough.
13:46 So you have to make a change.
13:48 Yeah, I don't know what Kerry's gonna like,
13:50 'cause again, like does Rod Kerry
13:53 have discernible like offensive philosophy
13:55 that he believes in?
13:56 I know he's had success before.
13:58 I think we've been over some of his career stuff.
14:01 I do know on good fact of being a Philadelphia native
14:04 that he was not, Temple fans are not,
14:07 were not very enthused with what he did most of the time
14:09 as their coach, kind of over his tenure there.
14:13 But like, I think you've touched on some of like
14:15 who he is before Jack and what you've written.
14:17 So if you want to go into it there.
14:18 Right, yeah, so Kerry has been on staff.
14:21 Allen brought him in last year
14:23 as a defensive quality control guy.
14:27 And that sounds a little weird defensive,
14:29 but I think what he explained last year was
14:32 he was his perspective.
14:36 He brought an offensive perspective to the defense
14:39 in terms of like teaching the defense,
14:41 like, hey, this is what the opposing offense wants to do.
14:44 This is why it works.
14:46 And this is how you could try to stop it, essentially.
14:48 So he's an offensive minded guy,
14:50 but he's been working a lot with the defense at Indiana.
14:53 Obviously, last year, he got promoted to the interim O.C. role
14:58 and the offensive line did play some of its better games
15:01 towards the end of last year with Kerry.
15:03 Obviously, this year he's tasked with the whole offense.
15:06 So that's obviously a bigger task,
15:08 but he's an Indiana grad.
15:10 He played offensive line at IU from '90 to '93
15:14 under Bill Mallory.
15:15 He's been a head coach at Northern Illinois.
15:20 He took over in their bowl game in 2012
15:23 when they went 12 and two
15:25 and made it all the way to the Orange Bowl
15:28 under Dave Dorn was their head coach,
15:30 but Kerry coached the bowl game.
15:33 And then Kerry was the head coach by himself
15:35 from 2013 to 2018.
15:38 He won two MAAC championships,
15:42 made six bowl games, never won one.
15:44 Went 52 and 30 overall, 38 and 10 in non-conference play.
15:50 So he had a really nice run at Northern Illinois.
15:53 - 30 and 10 in non-conference play?
15:54 - Sorry, in conference play.
15:55 - I was about to say, that's a lot of non-conference games.
15:57 - Yeah, no, definitely conference play.
16:00 So built one of the better MAAC programs there
16:03 for a solid stretch.
16:04 And then he was hired at Temple.
16:07 And as you said, things did not go very well.
16:10 Two and, or sorry, 12 and 20 overall.
16:15 His first year, they won eight and five
16:17 and made the military bowl where they lost,
16:19 but then one and six in 2020, three and nine in 2021.
16:23 And then he was done.
16:25 So, you know, he has a good track record
16:29 in terms of what he did at Northern Illinois,
16:31 but then struggled for a while there at Temple.
16:34 I guess in terms of expectations, you know,
16:40 it's not like he's going to implement
16:42 a completely new offense,
16:43 but I still think there are things
16:46 that you can change that Bell was doing
16:50 that clearly wasn't working.
16:52 Like, you know, we talked about the option,
16:53 like that wouldn't be something
16:54 that is some massive change to say,
16:57 all right, we're just not going to run this option anymore.
16:59 'Cause like you mentioned that fourth and one play
17:02 was like neither option was going to work
17:05 and they lost 11 yards from that.
17:07 You know, I still think like a storyline this year
17:12 has been, you know, finding the best way
17:14 to use Jalen Lucas.
17:15 Like I think there's still been too many times
17:19 where they just try to run him up the middle
17:21 and, you know, he's 5'9".
17:22 That's not what he does well.
17:24 So I think kind of those are two points
17:27 where it's, you know, you're not changing
17:29 everything about the offense,
17:31 but it's some tweaks that, you know,
17:34 we've seen that hadn't worked
17:36 that maybe he can tinker around with.
17:39 But I guess what do you see in terms of maybe
17:43 what you want to see from the offense
17:44 or any changes that they can make?
17:47 - I definitely think that they probably just need
17:51 to lean pass heavy with how ineffective
17:53 some of the run blocking has been.
17:55 And obviously they're struggling in passing ball too.
17:57 Like that was probably Taven Jackson's worst start
18:00 or the acting he was ped to,
18:02 but Taven did not look good against Maryland.
18:04 And we talked about this before off air,
18:07 but I don't think we, Taven should not be benched,
18:11 especially at this point,
18:12 because it just kind of feels unfair to him.
18:15 When, if you keep flip flopping back and forth like this,
18:17 it really doesn't help Taven's confidence.
18:19 It already probably hurt Brendan.
18:21 If Brendan wanted to be the,
18:23 was like really set on being the starter,
18:25 probably, I mean, you've already crossed that bridge
18:26 where you've named Taven the starter.
18:28 And I, especially with the next four games coming up
18:32 being three of them are Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin.
18:35 Like, do you really want to be keep making
18:38 quarterback changes during that
18:40 where whoever plays in those games
18:42 is going to look bad?
18:42 Like you're not, if even if Brendan
18:44 is a little bit better than Taven,
18:46 it really doesn't matter who you play against
18:49 in those three games against the teams,
18:50 you're probably going to lose.
18:51 And if you really want to develop Taven
18:53 as your quarterback for the next few years,
18:55 you kind of have to roll with them
18:56 and find a way to keep making this work.
18:59 So definitely want them to lean more pass heavy
19:01 and just try and get that figured out.
19:02 And then in terms of running ball,
19:04 still don't know when Henderson will be back,
19:06 but I do think they should kind of just
19:08 give a lot of carries to Christian Turner
19:10 on like pretty basic runs.
19:11 Like, yeah, he's pretty good.
19:14 Like, I think he's a pretty solid back.
19:16 And then yet use Jalen on like, you know,
19:18 if you want to do sweeps to the outside or reverses,
19:20 like Jalen is good for that.
19:21 Anything where he can bounce it outside.
19:23 Other than that, like I do like him as a receiver
19:24 because just it's hard to cover him
19:27 in space how quick he is.
19:28 I would kind of just say like, hey,
19:30 maybe out of every five running play,
19:32 four of these are going to Christian Turner
19:34 because we think he's pretty good.
19:35 So I think they should just lean into Christian Turner
19:38 as the guy at running back right now.
19:40 Yeah, he's, I don't know about you.
19:42 He's looked better than Josh Henderson.
19:43 I mean, that's not to say Henderson look bad,
19:45 but I think Christian has a little bit more twitch to him.
19:48 Like I think his cuts are a little more explosive.
19:50 He's a little bit more talented at baiting people.
19:52 Henderson's exactly what every coach wants.
19:54 He's pretty reliable, can get you a few yards.
19:56 Like they said, probably the best pass blocking back.
19:59 So it's not that Henderson wouldn't play
20:01 when he comes back from injury.
20:02 It's just, I think Turner offers a little more juice
20:04 in that position, but I would definitely lean into
20:08 Turner is the guy at running back.
20:10 Henderson's like the number two when he comes back
20:12 and will obviously get some pretty good reps.
20:14 So again, just don't, do not think of Jalen Lucas
20:17 like a running back.
20:18 He's just Jalen Lucas.
20:19 He's right.
20:20 He's your little versatile weapon that you can use
20:22 to kind of like help make the offense go.
20:24 But it's not a guy who, again,
20:26 those runs up the guy just did not work at all.
20:30 Like there's two to three yards each play, if that.
20:32 And obviously the alignments have blocked better,
20:35 but that's probably the thing I want to see there.
20:38 And I do think if we're talking about Rod Carey at Temple,
20:41 like how that kind of didn't work out,
20:43 it is something where, and obviously he's not in charge
20:45 of the program here like he was there.
20:47 It's a lot more responsibility to ask,
20:48 but Temple does have some of the,
20:50 it's not the exact one-to-one thing,
20:52 but some problems in the same way that Indiana has
20:55 where there's not a ton of care or,
20:58 if Temple's not playing very well,
21:01 it's not like they'll still get crowds.
21:02 Or so you can go look at a Temple,
21:04 like two in 10 season and look at the crowds there.
21:06 It's pretty brutal.
21:07 Like this is not a team where-
21:09 - It's a hard place to win, I guess.
21:12 - Yeah, like you have to do a lot of things right.
21:15 And if it goes poorly, it can go very poorly fast.
21:17 There's not gonna be like invested resources
21:19 into it to kind of turn it around.
21:21 And obviously like he had the COVID season there.
21:23 It's always going to be hard.
21:24 It can be, it was a weird year.
21:26 Not a lot of stuff to like,
21:27 it seems like a lot of stuff in that year,
21:29 but given the India and Northwestern
21:30 almost won the big 10, it's like, yeah,
21:32 it didn't really translate to the next few years.
21:34 So yeah, he might be okay.
21:38 They definitely need to make a change.
21:40 Unless their offense, I think suddenly like turns a corner
21:43 and they're competing games
21:44 win one or two more games this year.
21:46 I don't, I would not be big on,
21:49 hey, like if this team still scores
21:51 like 14 to 17 points a game the rest of the year
21:54 and loses out to go two in 10, I don't think you,
21:56 I mean, at that point we're having a conversation
21:58 about Tom Allen probably, but if not that, then yeah.
22:02 Like there needs to be some discernible improvement
22:05 the rest of the year if you want to roll carry.
22:07 - Right. I think the thing with carry is
22:09 you can kind of see the last stretch of this season
22:12 as a chance for him to win the job.
22:16 I still think unless he completely turned things around
22:21 and Indiana scoring, you know, 30 points a game
22:24 and they look awesome.
22:25 I still think you have to do your due diligence, sorry.
22:31 And do some sort of search for an offense coordinator.
22:35 And if you want to include carry in that search, you can.
22:39 But I feel like unless the offense is wildly improved,
22:45 you have to at least look around
22:46 and kind of see what some options are.
22:48 And just because of, you know, kind of where he was
22:54 in terms of on the staff and things like that.
22:56 But I think it'll be interesting to see.
23:00 I liked what you said about maybe going
23:02 a little bit more pass heavy, especially with Jalen Lucas.
23:05 You know, Taben, you know, one of the big things,
23:11 I guess, before the season was, you know,
23:14 Indiana hasn't been able to have quarterback stability
23:18 really the last two years.
23:19 And that's due to injury, that's due to poor performance,
23:24 offense coordinator changes, things like that.
23:26 You know, the only way that you're ever going to build
23:29 that stability is just to stick with a guy
23:32 and to see what you have there.
23:35 I don't think this flip flopping with Taben and Brendan
23:38 throughout the season is going to ultimately tell you,
23:42 like, this is the guy going forward.
23:44 And, you know, Taben isn't without blame either.
23:47 Like after that Louisville game where he threw
23:50 for 299 yards, 70% completion, you know,
23:55 he went 11 for 26 against Akron with an interception,
23:58 17 for 29 against Maryland with an interception,
24:02 barely over 300 yards combined in those two games.
24:07 So he's definitely taken a step back.
24:10 But I don't think it's smart to kind of just give up
24:16 on these young quarterbacks and to keep rotating them.
24:19 You know, it's hard to build confidence
24:22 when you're playing teams like Michigan and Penn State,
24:23 which are, you know, two of the opponents coming up,
24:26 obviously Rutgers too.
24:27 - Maybe the two best defenses they're going to face.
24:29 I mean, Ohio State was probably, could have been the best two,
24:32 but like Penn State and Michigan have lights out defenses.
24:36 Like they're not getting much against them either way.
24:38 Like Indiana getting shut out by either of those teams
24:40 is not off the table.
24:42 - Right.
24:43 And I just think you need to stick with one of them.
24:45 And, you know, I remember Tom Allen said before the season,
24:47 he's like, they need to play.
24:49 And like, that sounds like so simple,
24:52 but Taben needs to play.
24:53 Like he's played six, I think six games
24:58 of college football ever.
24:59 And that's five this year with, you know,
25:02 two of them being, three of them being, you know,
25:05 rotating with Soresby essentially.
25:06 So it's not like you are anywhere close
25:10 to knowing what you have in terms of a future quarterback.
25:14 So, you know, I think unless he is just unplayably bad,
25:20 like in the second half,
25:22 like I think it would be smart to just stick with one
25:25 and see what you have from a full season perspective
25:28 and kind of go from there
25:30 because the flip-flopping is just going to lead you
25:34 to where you've been the last couple of years
25:36 where, you know, it's just a constant question
25:39 of who's the quarterback.
25:40 - Yeah. And first off, apologies
25:43 if anyone listening, like the audio isn't as great.
25:45 'Cause I don't know why they decided to mow,
25:47 they decided to mow the very specific patches of grass
25:49 outside my apartment at this very time.
25:51 So it's pretty loud right now, but yeah,
25:54 I think that the Maryland game was bad.
25:59 What was even worse was the Akron game in terms of,
26:01 I just felt for, this was like for Walt Bell getting fired
26:04 and for Taven's performance himself.
26:06 Like that was a really, really rough game.
26:09 Like, and just not very understandable
26:11 in terms of just how much they struggled.
26:13 So I think that like Maryland was basically,
26:18 they needed some form of a bounce back in that,
26:20 like put up a fight and they didn't put up a fight,
26:23 which that was kind of like,
26:25 I guess that was probably Walt's chance there.
26:26 Like, hey, you just had your worst game ever.
26:28 We're not going to fire you right before Maryland,
26:29 but can you figure this one out?
26:32 And they really couldn't.
26:33 And yeah, I just,
26:34 'cause obviously this team is not going that far.
26:37 Like we, at this point, we're trying to see
26:39 where it might be like another big 10 win
26:41 the rest of the year.
26:42 The expectations that were built up
26:43 in the first three weeks have been
26:45 pretty quickly torn down.
26:46 You should not be, obviously like Tom Holland
26:49 for his job security himself
26:51 probably needs another one or two.
26:52 So you definitely want to find a way to maximize that
26:55 with either Taven or Brendan.
26:57 But really like you need to find a way
26:59 to just get one of these quarterbacks
27:01 to be good for the upcoming years.
27:02 If you ever want to build this program back up again,
27:04 like just flip-flopping between two guys,
27:07 not loving either is not going to like,
27:09 then how are they going to be any much better next year?
27:12 Like if one of them isn't the guy or at this point, so.
27:14 - Right.
27:15 And I guess the other wrinkle with that too is,
27:19 is Dexter Williams potentially returning,
27:21 you know, preseason and a lot of the injury talk
27:25 has kind of been subdued in terms of press conferences
27:29 and things because Alan has basically deferred
27:32 to the pregame availability reports,
27:34 which I get it if I was in his position,
27:37 I would do the same in terms of discussing injuries.
27:42 But hopefully we'll get a sense of where Dexter is at.
27:47 Maybe next Monday, you know,
27:48 there's no Tom Allen press conference this week,
27:51 but before the season,
27:54 I think a big 10 media days was the last time we,
27:56 or maybe one of the fall camp availabilities.
28:01 Alan basically said, you know, mid season is possible,
28:05 potentially a week or two earlier,
28:07 which kind of made it seem like the Maryland game
28:10 was maybe earliest possible scenario, I guess.
28:16 Michigan may be a little bit more realistic,
28:18 but I guess Indiana is also in this position
28:22 where it's like, and do you want to, you know,
28:25 you don't want to rush back a quarterback
28:27 who's coming off his second ACL injury
28:29 and make his first start against Michigan,
28:32 who, you know, you said has one of the best defenses,
28:35 you know, that wouldn't be an ideal place to return him.
28:40 And at this point, are you better off
28:42 just sticking with one of the younger guys
28:44 and trying to build around him?
28:46 So, you know, that's another interesting layer
28:49 to this whole thing, I think.
28:50 I don't really know what to expect
28:54 in terms of Dexter being back.
28:55 It wouldn't surprise me if he didn't play this year.
28:58 It wouldn't surprise me if, you know,
29:01 if Taven or Soresby, you know,
29:03 say you give them a chance against Rutgers
29:06 and they lose that and play really poorly,
29:08 then maybe you go with Dexter, you know,
29:10 the last three, four or five games
29:12 of the year, you know, maybe they do something like that.
29:15 But it's kind of hard to say at this point
29:18 because we don't know exactly what his status is.
29:20 But he's been out there kind of warming up before games.
29:23 He's been practicing a little bit.
29:25 He practiced during fall camp too,
29:26 which I really didn't expect,
29:28 kind of based on the injury before the season.
29:31 But that adds a whole other layer
29:33 that Tom Allen has to figure out.
29:35 And, you know, we'll kind of see where they go.
29:38 But I think you got to find what works for you.
29:42 Find one guy, you know, if you can salvage anything,
29:45 you know, from the last half of the season
29:48 is can you find a quarterback?
29:49 You know, that's kind of where it starts with, I think.
29:51 - Are you prematurely ruling out
29:54 completer of a fake punt pass, Brock Lowry?
29:56 - Yeah.
29:57 - Hey, it was short of the sticks
30:01 and they were down 27 to three.
30:03 - Yeah.
30:04 - Oh, man.
30:04 That was also like, I understand going for the fake punt.
30:08 But at that point, it's like,
30:09 if it's fourth and nine down 27 to three,
30:11 if you have any confidence in your offense,
30:13 just keep them out there
30:13 if you really wanted to go for it.
30:15 Like I don't even--
30:16 - And don't throw it short of the line to gain.
30:18 - Yeah.
30:19 Although I don't know if he was going to--
30:21 I, it was, it was a pretty, it was not good.
30:26 It was pretty bad.
30:27 Yeah.
30:29 Like I think we've gone over all of it.
30:30 Like there's not much more to say about Walt Bell.
30:34 Like, you never want to see a guy get fired,
30:36 but kind of felt warranted after his 17 games here
30:40 did not go very well at all.
30:41 Like very few things you could point to
30:44 where this was working.
30:45 This is why he should still be the offense coordinator.
30:47 So yeah, it's pretty much there.
30:50 And like the reason we're not going too much
30:53 in the specifics of Maryland games,
30:54 because anyone who watched it knows,
30:55 like there isn't much to go into.
30:56 Like Maryland looked better right away.
30:58 They were able to pass all over them,
31:01 some coverage busts.
31:02 Taliyah got loose a few times for runs.
31:05 Taliyah basically had his best game ever
31:07 as a Maryland quarterback.
31:08 - Yeah, he was awesome.
31:09 - I don't even know if Taliyah is that good,
31:12 but like he sure looked that good against Indiana.
31:14 Decently concerned that their defensive line
31:17 really cannot affect him much at all.
31:18 Like the pass rush just was not there.
31:21 And then on offense, yeah,
31:22 they wasted their first chance to strike right back
31:25 after the three play touchdown drive.
31:26 Jaylen Lucas takes it back.
31:27 And they basically, they got a few first downs,
31:30 but not enough.
31:31 And then the rest of the game,
31:32 just not enough on offense
31:34 to really get anything going there.
31:36 And it was a game where it fell over
31:40 within the first three minutes.
31:41 - It really did.
31:43 And there's been far too many games
31:45 kind of like that in the last couple of years
31:47 with Indiana just not coming out at all ready
31:50 or prepared, you know, a couple of coverage busts.
31:53 Like I think, sorry, go ahead.
31:56 - I was just gonna say,
31:57 and like the worst thing there is that,
31:59 yeah, if that happens against Michigan
32:00 in the next game, it's kind of understandable.
32:02 Michigan does that to a lot of teams,
32:03 the Big 10 or Penn State does that,
32:04 or if Ohio State had done it earlier this year.
32:06 This is Maryland.
32:07 This is, and I understand Maryland's put together
32:09 a good team, but the fact that,
32:11 just imagine telling someone in like 2020
32:13 that Maryland would be running Indiana off the field.
32:16 - Yeah, right.
32:17 Because they were always kind of a measuring stick game
32:20 for Indiana in terms of,
32:22 are you towards, you know,
32:25 not the top tier of the Big 10,
32:26 but are you a step above some of the lower teams
32:29 in the East and now--
32:30 - It's how they kept getting those five win seasons,
32:32 at least, three non-conference wins.
32:34 And you beat Maryland and Rutgers.
32:35 And now like they lost to Maryland
32:37 and they're not going to be favored
32:39 at home against Rutgers, I don't think, at this rate.
32:40 'Cause Rutgers is four and one
32:42 and looks competent in Indiana.
32:43 Like, I don't know if they're competent at the moment,
32:46 as mean as that sounds.
32:47 - Yeah, no, I hadn't thought of that.
32:50 That will be interesting to see.
32:51 I don't know who Rutgers plays this week,
32:53 but I guess another--
32:56 - I think they play Wisconsin.
32:57 - Okay.
32:58 - So probably four and two.
32:59 - Yeah.
32:59 I guess another interesting note from that game was
33:03 Cam Camper really didn't play, like, hardly at all.
33:06 And they kept showing him on the broadcast.
33:08 I know you were there, but at least on the broadcast--
33:10 - We did not get much of any word
33:13 of why that was happening.
33:14 - Yeah, it was, I didn't see him get injured.
33:18 And on the sideline, it didn't, you know,
33:21 there was nothing clearly saying like, this is an injury.
33:24 So I guess, you know, it's a chance
33:27 that it was a situation where, you know,
33:29 he just got benched or something like that.
33:31 We don't want to speculate too far.
33:32 I guess that's exactly what I'm doing right now.
33:34 But, you know, I guess I'm not, you know,
33:38 it wasn't blatantly obvious that it was an injury thing.
33:40 So that would obviously not be a good situation
33:45 if Indiana doesn't have him because he's the best
33:48 or one of the top two receivers that they have.
33:51 I think McCauley's played well this season.
33:54 - McCauley did have a, that was getting,
33:55 I was like making my positives from the game.
33:57 McCauley was one of the only ones.
33:59 McCauley, like, had a pretty good game,
34:01 had some really nice catches on jump balls.
34:03 Like, truly one of the only Indiana players
34:06 who had a good game on Saturday was Tom McCauley.
34:08 And if we remember, it was Kim Kamper
34:10 who I think slammed his helmet on the turf
34:12 against Ohio State.
34:13 Like, I would not be shocked if it's like Kamper's
34:16 a little bit frustrated with the offense
34:18 and how it's working, which I mean--
34:19 - Yeah, I mean, he would.
34:21 Yeah, that's understandable.
34:22 I mean, nothing has gone well in terms of the offense.
34:26 And I think both of us have been pretty,
34:30 pretty in on just the defense and Guerrero
34:34 and everything this season, at least being a solid unit,
34:37 nothing like amazing, but that was definitely
34:40 their worst game of the season.
34:42 I think pretty safely, we can say.
34:45 21 points in the first quarter, some coverage busts.
34:50 That's really been like the most glaring issue
34:53 is just kind of the big plays that the defense has allowed.
34:57 Whereas like most of the time they've been pretty solid,
35:01 but they have been susceptible to giving up
35:04 these chunk plays, which is obviously a big negative
35:09 for the secondary and everything like that.
35:12 So we've talked a lot about the offense,
35:15 but the defense was not good either on Saturday.
35:18 So plenty to clean up there.
35:21 But I think in general, both of us have been,
35:25 I think Guerrero has done a pretty solid job
35:27 and they made some nice additions through the portal,
35:30 but definitely a discouraging performance on defense too.
35:34 It was, but like it was the first time I was really felt
35:39 like, oh man, their defense did not play well enough.
35:41 Like we talked about Akron a few plays,
35:43 but they were just, they did all they could
35:44 for so long in the Akron game
35:45 before falling apart a little bit.
35:47 Louisville, they fixed most of their problems
35:49 in the second half.
35:49 It was really just a couple of specific plays.
35:52 Ohio State, they played pretty great.
35:54 Indiana State obviously like had nothing for them.
35:56 So, and they're gonna have again, these hard games
35:59 that they might get torched
36:00 by Michigan, Penn State, and Wisconsin.
36:01 It's really like, I think if we wanna do
36:04 the Guerrero assessment, then again,
36:06 it really depends on, hey, when you play Michigan State,
36:08 Illinois, Purdue, down the last half of the season
36:11 or Rutgers, these offenses that really
36:13 should not be torching you.
36:14 If you hold them under control, then it's fine.
36:16 Like there's still gonna be a talent gap
36:18 between some of these best teams.
36:19 Maybe Maryland has gotten talented enough on offense
36:21 that they have that talent gap too.
36:22 And they just had a bad day and all kind of coalesced
36:25 in one, but given that this is probably the only,
36:28 the first time in five weeks I'm willing to say,
36:30 wow, objectively bad performance from Guerrero's defense.
36:33 I think that's like, you'll take one out of five
36:36 given where Indiana's defense was last year.
36:38 - Yeah, that's fair.
36:39 I mean, yeah, I think that's fair to say,
36:42 there's a lot of these games where I think some of it
36:48 has to do also with if the offense can't stay
36:51 on the field, you're putting so much pressure
36:52 on the defense to play more snaps and you're not getting rest
36:57 on the sideline and everything like that.
36:58 So I think that was like a big thing that hurt them
37:01 last year defensively was just, when you have three and out
37:04 after three and out, after three and out,
37:06 like I think they had three in a row
37:08 in the first half against Maryland.
37:10 That just puts your defense in such a tough spot.
37:14 - Even just like a morale standpoint,
37:16 they're like, why are we even doing this?
37:18 Like we know they're not gonna score.
37:19 Even if we play our butts off,
37:22 it's gonna be 17, nothing at best
37:24 'cause they're not scoring.
37:25 - Right.
37:26 So, yeah, I mean, I think in terms of
37:30 rest of the season outlook,
37:32 it's hard to feel too confident
37:37 in where they're gonna find another win.
37:40 You know, I think, still those Rutgers, Illinois,
37:44 Purdue, Michigan State,
37:45 like I think you can still say they're winnable,
37:49 but they're definitely not gonna win all four of them.
37:52 And, you know, they gotta start with winning one of them.
37:55 - And that's probably the only way they get to a bowl game
37:59 is by winning all four of those,
38:00 which I feel like talking, I feel like Jim Mora,
38:03 like, you know, the playoffs thing with bowl game,
38:05 like, boy, let's see if they get back to four wins again.
38:08 Like I don't, 'cause with consensus gotten it together
38:11 and like we've talked about their Washington State loss
38:13 looks more and more understandable by the week,
38:15 Washington State by finishing in the top 10 at this rate.
38:18 And Penn State, Michigan,
38:21 obviously national title contenders, like, yeah.
38:24 Can you beat two of the four of Rutgers, Illinois,
38:27 Michigan State, Purdue?
38:28 I would say they can't at the moment,
38:31 but that's what it feels like
38:33 it's worth discussing at this moment.
38:35 - Yeah, I mean, it'll, those teams, I think it's fair to say
38:38 have looked worse than most people thought they would
38:42 going into the season.
38:43 - I think Rutgers has looked better than.
38:45 - Right, yeah, yeah, I guess I'm more saying Illinois.
38:47 - You're also like Rutgers exceeding expectations.
38:50 Like what were exactly the Rutgers expectations?
38:53 - It's not like there's some world beater that,
38:54 you know, that no one expected, you know,
38:57 they're, I still think they're a beatable team,
39:01 especially if it's a home game for Indiana,
39:02 but plenty to fix obviously for Indiana.
39:05 And, you know, the last two seasons really
39:08 with coaching changes and quarterbacks,
39:13 you know, it hasn't been too promising
39:15 in terms of feeling good about this team
39:18 being able to fix things mid season.
39:20 So it felt like a move that had to happen
39:24 in terms of Bell, but I'm not totally convinced
39:27 it changes much with how this season is going to go.
39:32 - Well, we're going to have two weeks off
39:35 before we learn how much more the season is going to go
39:37 and what happens, what the whole fallout
39:39 of the Walt Bell firing and Rod Carey promotion is.
39:42 But I think that's going to wrap it up for us today.
39:45 Obviously going to have,
39:46 so we'll have football coverage this week too,
39:48 but probably a lot of basketball coverage
39:49 with basketball season upcoming
39:51 and with football on a bye week,
39:54 as someone might say mercifully on a bye week,
39:56 but that as a state right now,
39:58 but yeah, that's going to do it for us today.
40:00 Thank you all so much for listening
40:01 to the Hoosier Roundtable podcast.
40:03 Once again, I am Daniel Olinger and he is Jack Ankeny.
40:05 We work as reporters at hoosiersnow.com,
40:09 the Indiana Hoosiers website
40:11 for Sports Illustrated and Fan Nation,
40:13 where you can follow all of our coverage
40:14 for the Indiana basketball teams
40:15 and this Indiana football team.
40:17 And if you're listening on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
40:20 any of those things,
40:20 please throw us a follow, five-star rating
40:23 and a nice review if you feel so inclined
40:26 or any advice you can give,
40:27 because again, we're still pretty young in this podcast.
40:30 And yeah, thank you all so much for listening
40:32 and we should be back again with you later this week.