2013 Honda Civic Si: Competition for the Ford Focus ST? - Ignition Ep. 70
On this episode of Ignition
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00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 This is the Honda Civic Si.
00:10 That name is synonymous with the sport compact car
00:13 boom of the late '80s and early '90s.
00:15 Since then, there have been nine generations of this car,
00:19 some more successful than others.
00:22 How about the 2013 model, then?
00:25 Well, the hardware seems right.
00:27 You have a 201-horse 2.4-liter four
00:30 connected to a six-speed manual, a limited-slip differential,
00:34 and sticky Michelin summer tires.
00:36 It received an early update, along
00:38 with the rest of the Civic lineup,
00:40 after some disappointing reviews for the 2012 model.
00:43 Is it enough in this increasingly
00:45 competitive segment?
00:46 This week, we find out.
00:47 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:51 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:54 Now, traditionally, launching a Honda for an acceleration run
01:04 required that you just rev the hell out of it
01:06 and dump the clutch just to keep it in its power band.
01:08 Now that we have more torque lower in the rev range,
01:11 we found the best acceleration was
01:13 from a launch at about 2,000 RPM.
01:17 You have wheelspin through first.
01:19 It ends just as you shift into second gear.
01:23 You'll hit 60 and third at 6.1 seconds.
01:28 Shifter's easy to row.
01:30 Engine sounds very nice.
01:32 And you feel the power at about 6,800 RPM.
01:38 For a 60 to 0 braking test, we have some pretty sticky tires.
01:46 Our best stop from 60 took 109 feet.
01:49 [TIRES SCREECHING]
01:50 Yeah!
01:51 Now we start the figure eight test.
01:57 [ENGINE REVVING]
02:00 You can feel the limited slip fighting
02:02 that power on corner exit.
02:04 You've got to be mindful with throttle application.
02:06 You can enter aggressively.
02:07 You basically just have to chuck this car into a corner.
02:11 Mid-corner, there is a fair amount of understeer,
02:13 mild to moderate.
02:15 It doesn't have the rotation that some other cars
02:19 in this segment now have.
02:20 The power is good.
02:21 And it's fun seeing the tach just
02:23 stay between 6,000 and 7,000 RPM the whole time
02:26 around the track.
02:28 Sounds great, too.
02:30 Pretty easy to heel and toe.
02:31 This transmission doesn't give me any trouble.
02:33 At least the shifter doesn't give me any trouble.
02:37 And you can tell there's a lot of grip in the tire.
02:39 This thing put down a very good lap time.
02:44 Still, it doesn't have the engagement mid-corner.
02:49 And you can just chuck it in.
02:51 And it just defaults to understeer.
02:53 And then you're just on and off the throttle,
02:55 waiting until you can go full throttle.
02:58 And then you have to apply it gradually,
03:00 because you can't overwhelm these front tires with power.
03:05 Versus last year's model, we have beefier anti-roll bars.
03:09 We have a quicker steering ratio.
03:11 But I still think this car needs a little bit more
03:14 to perform better around a limit handling track.
03:19 I want some rotation out of the rear.
03:21 I want to be able to control the line of the car.
03:23 I can't do that with the way this is set up.
03:25 Now, it is fast.
03:26 It's certainly fast.
03:27 It's putting down a good lap time.
03:29 But I want more control out of it.
03:38 The Civic Si has always been a light, fun, sporty car.
03:43 It's one that you can throw around and enjoy very quickly.
03:48 It's always had a free revving, high revving engine,
03:52 very good control over the chassis.
03:55 Now, let's talk about what the Civic Si has always been.
03:59 We have a 7,000 RPM redline, an engine
04:01 that sounds better and better the closer you get to it.
04:05 We have pretty much idiot-proof handling.
04:08 This car has a lot of grip.
04:10 You have good control through the steering,
04:12 not a lot of feedback from the road,
04:14 but decent control nonetheless.
04:16 But I want to get back to the engine.
04:18 It's been a big issue for a lot of enthusiasts
04:21 about the Civic Si, that it only has 2.4 liters and no power
04:25 at her.
04:25 It's not supercharged or turbocharged,
04:27 even though the GTI is, the Mazda Speed 3 is, the Focus ST is.
04:33 And I'm not sure that power is the big problem
04:38 with the Si.
04:38 We have 201 horsepower.
04:41 This thing is as fast as a GTI with a manual, or a BRZ or FRS
04:46 in a straight line.
04:47 It has plenty of power.
04:49 And the character of a high revving engine,
04:52 the sound this makes, I'd argue, is
04:55 more enjoyable than the benefit of torque
04:57 that you'd get out of a turbocharger.
04:59 I like spinning engines high to redline.
05:01 I like the sound they make when you get close to redline.
05:04 Now, this, of course, doesn't get as high as a redline
05:07 as former Civic Si's have had.
05:09 I mean, we've had Civics that rev to 8,500 RPM.
05:14 And while I'd hate to define a car by a redline,
05:18 revving past 8,000 is a lot of fun.
05:21 Still, though, we have a lower redline,
05:25 but we have more torque.
05:27 Now, we have like 170 pound feet,
05:29 really low in the rev range.
05:30 I mean, the 2006 Civic made, I think,
05:33 4 pound feet at like 6,000 RPM.
05:36 It was kind of silly.
05:38 But now we have a more usable power band.
05:40 You can leave this car in a higher gear
05:43 and just stay around the torque peak
05:44 and thread the car like a needle through the road.
05:48 You feel the power surge a bit more right at about 6,800 RPM.
05:53 And you do get that metallic four-cylinder Honda sound.
05:58 That is a good noise.
06:03 What I want out of a Civic Si is an aggressive chassis.
06:06 And that's where this car might be letting me down a little bit.
06:09 Not to say it's slow or boring or not fun.
06:13 It's all of those.
06:15 It put down great handling numbers around our figure 8.
06:19 It can maintain speeds comparable with a Focus ST,
06:23 with a BRZ or an FR-S. But for some reason,
06:27 it's not as enjoyable as those cars to throw around.
06:31 And I'm trying to figure out why.
06:33 Well, for one, there's the fact that there's
06:35 not a lot of mid-corner rotation if you lift off the throttle.
06:38 You don't get a lot of sense of the chassis eager to work
06:41 and play with you.
06:42 Once it generates those high levels of grip,
06:45 that's all it does.
06:46 It's hard to modify our line.
06:47 It's easy to pinpoint.
06:49 And this car won't surprise you at all.
06:51 But it doesn't challenge you either.
06:58 The Civic Si was never the track-focused performance car.
07:03 That job was left to the Type R. Never mind that we never
07:06 got the Civic Type R in the US, but that was the distinction.
07:09 But the fact that we still don't get the Type R in the US,
07:12 it makes you long for something more out of the Si.
07:16 Sure, the interior is nice.
07:17 You have carbon fiber trim.
07:19 You have some chrome doodads and stuff.
07:22 But I kind of want the car to be rarer, lighter, more focused,
07:27 more happy to abuse a mountain road.
07:32 But this is very capable.
07:34 One thing I will say I really admire about this car
07:36 is that there is no sport mode.
07:38 You don't have to do anything to access
07:40 the fun parts of the car.
07:42 You just turn the traction control off and go for it.
07:45 You don't have to select sport shifting.
07:47 You don't have to change the throttle map.
07:49 It's always in fast fun mode.
07:51 That's great.
07:51 Keep that up.
07:56 Now, I've mentioned the Focus ST several times.
07:58 And let's talk a little bit more about that.
08:00 It's uncomfortable how close that car is to this one
08:04 in terms of price.
08:05 Now, sure, this car is cheaper as the base model.
08:08 But you don't want that.
08:09 You want the version with summer tires.
08:12 Now, if you do that, you're about $700, $800 away
08:15 from a Focus ST without any options on it,
08:19 but a Focus ST nonetheless.
08:21 And then when you realize that, it
08:23 starts becoming difficult to find reasons
08:26 to choose the Honda, unless you really like Hondas
08:30 and you really like naturally aspirated engines.
08:33 But there's the chassis of the Focus ST,
08:36 which is its strong point, that you can control it and modify
08:40 the line through a corner with so much control.
08:45 That's what it offers its driver.
08:46 It offers its driver so much more than the Civic SI.
08:51 Not that the Civic SI is bad.
08:53 It's just that the Focus seems to have
08:55 elevated what these cars can do or when they should do.
08:58 The sport compact car segment is changing and growing rapidly
09:05 more competitive.
09:06 While the Civic is offering plenty of features,
09:08 other entrants are offering more power or more aggressive
09:11 suspension tuning, or both at once.
09:14 The interesting thing is that the Civic SI
09:16 is the same as it ever was.
09:18 We're happy you can still get it with a high-revving,
09:21 naturally aspirated engine.
09:22 We're happy it's still quick and fun to drive.
09:25 And we're happy those traits haven't changed.
09:29 [MUSIC PLAYING]
09:32 [MUSIC PLAYING]
09:36 [MUSIC PLAYING]
09:40 [MUSIC PLAYING]
09:44 [MUSIC PLAYING]
09:47 (upbeat music)