Paul Goodwin is joined by Steve Jones, Doncaster Rovers correspondent for the Doncaster Free Press, to talk about the club's start to the season.
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00:00 How do you assess the season so far for Rovers?
00:19 Slow start. I think I looked at a piece I put out this morning, the league table. I
00:24 think after Tuesday's win it was such a high, such a good performance and then you go and
00:29 look at that league table and the points tally is still pretty low. There's still a lot of
00:33 traffic between Doncaster and the play-off spots. I think they're about eight points
00:37 off the top of my head if I can think correctly. So it just shows you how much of a slow start
00:44 it was and I think it could be one of those seasons where hopefully we see Doncaster steadily
00:50 motor up the table. But slow progress, but progress nonetheless. I'm sure we'll come
00:54 on to it, Paul, but the injury situation has been dire. It's really disappointing to see
01:00 that stretch into a third season now, 14 players out at the last count as of Tuesday night.
01:07 Don't expect too many more back for Sopport tomorrow as well. So given where they're at
01:11 and everything that's been shut to them early doors, I think some of the results, more recent
01:16 results in the wins have been really positive and encouraging. Crawley obviously were joint
01:21 league leaders on Tuesday. Gillingham likewise, top of the table when they came to the eco
01:27 power and Doncaster again. I think the most encouraging thing I can say on those performances
01:32 in the wins, Paul, is that they've probably showed what they're capable of. And don't
01:37 get me wrong, they're capable of turning in a pretty poor performance or two, we know
01:42 that. But you'd hope if they can just find a little bit more consistency that that table
01:47 might start to open up a little bit. And Grant McCann, he is right when he says, you know,
01:51 there's plenty of games to go yet.
01:53 Yeah, 11 points from 11 games, which is not the start that people were expecting. It has
02:00 taken a bit of time to get things going. Do you think, Steve, Rovers have turned a corner
02:05 or do you still have some worries about certain things and certain things that you're seeing
02:10 in the performances?
02:12 I think performance has been good. My worry is that I think tomorrow is an excellent case
02:17 in point of you're going to take a step forward with the win at Crawley, which puts Barrow
02:23 behind you straight away. But then you don't want to take another step back again, should
02:27 you lose tomorrow. And then all of a sudden, the gap between Doncaster and the top seven
02:31 becomes larger still. I think I put it to Grant last week, actually, that teams who
02:37 win promotion tend to win three on four on the bounce regularly. And he actually turned
02:41 to me and said that they win more than that. So perhaps that's what Doncaster need is,
02:46 you know, a five-six game winning stretch. I mean, Stockport have won five in a row.
02:50 Crewe are right up there on a brilliant winning run. And Crawley, I think they were on beating
02:55 in six. So what we probably need for is a bit more consistency. I know they put three
03:01 wins together, including the EFL Trophy game against Everton's 21s. But then they let themselves
03:06 down against Barrow where they just sort of fell into the trap. Barrow set off them. Grant
03:12 McCann, he complained about them going direct in the second half. Truthfully, I thought
03:16 in the first half when they were playing it around the back, it was totally harmless.
03:20 They didn't really take Barrow out of their comfort zone or lay a glove on them. So nothing
03:24 really worked for them last weekend. I appreciate Barrow away is a tough assignment. But I think
03:30 in terms of whether they've turned a corner, that will depend, I think, on not just solely
03:35 tomorrow's game, but perhaps now if they can keep up these good performances and the results
03:40 as well, because they've got a few players in form. They've got two strikers scoring
03:45 goals and assisting each other. You'll know more than me, but that hasn't happened for
03:49 a long time. But it is really encouraging that we're seeing that and with George Miller
03:54 to come back and Louis Marsh is a good little talent. We're here. So hopefully there'll
03:59 be a little bit more to come from him as well. And fingers crossed, they are heading in the
04:03 right direction. So optimistically, yes, I'll say.
04:07 It hasn't kind of been the sort of swashbuckling, aggressive football that we saw under McCann
04:12 during his previous stint at Rovers quite yet. How do you sort of assess how McCann's
04:18 gone about it so far? I know you've mentioned the injuries that he's had a lot of content
04:22 with, but how do you look at what the manager's done so far?
04:26 I think he's done a good job. I think the wins have been hard-fought wins. That is the
04:31 case, you know, the Gillingham game, a 2-1 win. It wasn't comfortable. I think Crawley
04:37 was excellent, really, and that's probably, I put it to Grant, I asked him, do you think
04:41 that was the best performance? He said it had aspects of, you know, where they want
04:45 to be and everything they want to be about. For me, I think it probably was because it
04:50 married up a performance and a result as well. I think McCann, I mean, it's interesting,
04:55 he changed from what we think is his favoured 4-3-3 to a 3-5-2, partly due to injuries.
05:02 And I have been wondering whether in time he might try and flip back to the 4-3-3 and
05:07 try and get someone like Luke Molyneux, who's been excellent at wing-back but we know he's
05:11 an attacking player. And don't get me wrong, he's been involved in lots of creative moments
05:16 for Doncaster, but perhaps we might see him pushed further forward in time. I think you
05:21 look at Owen Bailey, he's, well, he can play a number of positions, but he started the
05:25 season as a holding midfielder and they've not really missed him in that role because
05:30 Zane Westbrook and Ben Close have been playing quite well. But we might see him pushed from
05:34 the right centre-half position into central midfield. Jack Senior maybe might go back
05:39 out to left-back when he's fit, which would free Molyneux up further up the pitch. So
05:44 for now, I think he's done all right. I think, obviously, it was a disappointing start to
05:49 the season. It was one that probably took everyone by surprise, might have humbled a
05:55 few and maybe just realigned expectations given how it's been the last few years. But
06:01 I think the good thing is he still retains popular support, which is fundamental, I think.
06:06 And the encouraging thing is that I do believe they've turned a corner now and they are starting
06:11 to motor a little bit. I know some people won't even look at the table just yet, but
06:17 it would be nice to look at that table and see them looking a little bit more comfortable
06:20 and healthy.
06:21 You mentioned the 3-5-2, I've got that down on my list, actually. It's not what people
06:27 are expecting, is it? But it's taken McCann a little bit of time just to figure out his
06:32 best 11. He's still missing some key players, of course, as well. But, yes, it's interesting
06:38 that they've settled on that shape. I was thinking to myself the other night, it's not
06:42 a million miles away from the shape that Danny Schofield tried to implement, but he was very
06:46 stubborn with his 3-4-3. But 3-5-2, like you say, Molyneux at wing-back, it's not kind
06:54 of what we expected, but it seems to be working.
06:56 Yes, definitely. And I think if you were to go back to the 4-3-3, the headache McCann
07:01 would then have is how do you keep Mo Fahl and Ironside alongside each other, playing
07:06 well and playing with each other as well. I think, just cast your mind back to last
07:10 season, Paul, they played one up front and it just didn't work. The ball, whenever it
07:17 went forward, it came straight back. I think it's been really nice and just refreshing
07:21 to see the ball go up to the top end of the pitch and stick. So, yes, definitely not what
07:26 we expected, the 3-5-2. But I really enjoy the partnership between Fahl and Ironside.
07:31 I think that they can both mix it up. And Fahl, he is not just a big man. He can play.
07:37 His positional play is obviously a lot better than people give him credit for because he's
07:41 making numerous chances for himself. The ball's always falling to him in key areas and really
07:48 he's got three goals. He probably could have had double that with the chances that have
07:51 come his way so far. So, again, if you've got a team that's playing well and you've
07:55 got players playing well, then if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'm sure plenty of fans
07:59 would be quite happy to actually see two up top because even at the start of the season,
08:03 I think Ironside was ploughing a lonely furrow. I think that's a phrase, isn't it, they use
08:08 sometimes in football, on his own. And it was more of the same, really. He was struggling.
08:13 Miller came in, got a couple of goals against Hull and obviously came out again because
08:17 of his injury. So, yeah, at the minute it's working and Doncaster are creating chances
08:23 in the main. And the last few games it's been good and there are a few more opportunities
08:26 to score on Tuesday as well. So, yeah, I think for now it's the 4-3-3 I'm sure we'll see
08:33 at some point, definitely. But for now, I think with what's available and what we think
08:38 might be coming back, which isn't a huge amount, I'd imagine we might see it for the foreseeable
08:44 as well.
08:45 Yeah, I think I missed a bit of a headline opportunity the other night with Rovers finding
08:50 their mojo, but we might see that in weeks to come. The Crawley performance, in terms
08:56 of the energy and commitment, I think that's what people want, isn't it? They just want
09:00 to see a Rovers team go out there and give absolutely everything. And we saw that on
09:04 Tuesday night. I guess the conundrum is, can the same group of players, can the same 11,
09:09 12 players, can they produce that Tuesday to Saturday, Tuesday to Saturday? Because
09:13 it's such a grind and we might get a clue again on Saturday at Stockport as to whether
09:19 they can. And that's the challenge in some extents, isn't it? Being able to reproduce
09:24 that over and over again.
09:25 Yeah, that's what the teams at the top of the table have been able to do. They can bounce
09:31 back from the defeats quickly. They don't do what Rovers allowed themselves to do last
09:35 year where a defeat seems to have a domino effect and then two or three more follow and
09:41 all of a sudden you're having to start again and try and get on a run. But yeah, it's obviously
09:46 a big challenge with the lack of squad depth for them in it as well because, if I'm honest,
09:50 I think those options on the bench, the likes of Tyler Roberts, Deji Sertona, I think for
09:55 now they look like good options off the bench but they've not really done enough to suggest
10:00 they can be starting players in this team at this time. Louis Marsh likewise, if I'm
10:07 honest, I think he did okay against Everton, got his goal but he was very quiet against
10:12 Barrow. I know that will happen with young players and you just have to excuse that and
10:16 accept that's part of the process. But yeah, if there were to be any more injuries, you
10:22 worry about Doncaster's ability to go toe-to-toe with a good team like Crawley on Tuesday and
10:27 then, like you say, go and do it again against Stockport on Saturday as well. And I think
10:32 tomorrow could be a little bit more about the defensive stuff for Doncaster. I think
10:37 they really do need to go there and not lose, first of all, keep it tight. Just the third
10:42 clean sheet of the season on Tuesday. And Jogey Mourad, they were brilliant in defence,
10:46 they restricted a Crawley team who were a free-scoring side, I think they scored three
10:51 goals in all of their last six games, that's unbelievable. And they restricted them to
10:55 very few chances Doncaster but consistency with defensive performances and some of the
11:00 individual performances, performance in there, it needs to be there as well. So, I think
11:06 if they can nail things defensively, they don't necessarily need to be at their swashbuckling
11:10 best going forward every game, every week. People will accept a 1-0 win, a scrappy one
11:18 now and then, especially like you say, when they're pouring forward and it was a full-throttle
11:23 performance against Crawley. One of those brilliant times really when you can really
11:28 feel the whole stadium's with the team and behind the manager as well. And I think that
11:32 last point behind the manager, it's been brilliant actually to see that support for Grant McCown
11:37 still and it's nice to see a manager and a set of supporters have that relationship with
11:41 each other as well.
11:42 You mentioned defensively, there has been a lot of eyes upon that at the minute. In
11:49 terms of defending crosses, it's definitely a weak point and it's not just something that's
11:53 been happening this season, it's happened over the last two and a bit seasons. But there
11:58 are one or two signs that things are starting to come together. Tom Anderson's performance
12:02 level seems to have gone up a notch and Joseph Oluwu seems to be steadying things as well
12:09 after a bit of an up and down start.
12:11 Yes, on Joseph, when he's good he's very good and when he's bad this season, I'm not saying
12:19 when he's bad, when he's made mistakes that have unfortunately led to goals. I think he
12:23 held his hand up to that last weekend when we had a chat after Barrow. I think you are
12:27 right to point to Tom Anderson. I think he's been very good this season to be honest. Credit
12:33 to him because he sticks his head where it hurts, where I certainly wouldn't be putting
12:36 my head in those positions if I was out there playing football. Owen Bailey's been steady
12:41 and dependable. You can't really ask for more than that, especially when you consider he
12:46 is playing out of position. I think his natural role is still the holder midfielder, even
12:50 though we've seen him at right back and right centre half. I think Molyneux, you certainly
12:55 prefer to see him going forward, but defensively he gets by all right. Tom Nixon as well, I
13:00 was going to ask Grant a question or two about him because he's a good little player. Probably
13:06 gone under the radar because there's just been so many top performances from various
13:11 players recently. He's been good and we've not missed Jamie Sterry. If you think Sterry,
13:18 we had really high expectations for him and still do. He's only played the one game due
13:24 to his injuries, so Doncaster haven't necessarily missed him in that regard. I think they've
13:28 been well covered in that position on the whole with Nixon and Bailey as well. The keepers
13:35 have been good. At times, they're good, Paul, they are. But again, it's probably a lack
13:43 of consistency with the defending that's cost them as well because they conceded three goals
13:48 at Barrow, they went to Newport and conceded four goals. I think they were two-nil down
13:52 at MK Don's at half-time. You cannot allow this to happen tomorrow because Stockport
13:58 are a good team. The truth is, I think in all those games, they left themselves with
14:03 a little bit too much to do ultimately going forward, down to defensive mistakes.
14:08 Barrow, hopefully, a bit of an anomaly, easy for me to say. I think you are going to get
14:15 performances like that though, to be honest. These players are in League Two for a reason,
14:19 let's not forget. I think you will just get off days. I remember Notts County, didn't
14:24 they get beat five on the opening day of the season? They're probably the best team I've
14:27 seen this season. So even the best teams have off days. I guess it's just managing them
14:33 and making sure they don't happen too often.
14:37 I wanted to ask you, Steve, just a quick one. You can pick out anything you like. What have
14:41 you liked so far about this season for Robeson and what have you disliked?
14:45 Oh, blimey. I've liked the fact that I think in the main the performances have been entertaining
14:52 when they've been good. It's been fun to watch and I think the way last season ended, it
14:57 was hard at times to watch. Hard to just be a part of it as in going along and no one
15:04 wants to sit in a pretty toxic atmosphere, you might say. So I think when it's been good,
15:09 it's been great and everyone's been on the same page, singing from the same hymn sheet.
15:12 What have I not liked? The injury situation is a frustrating one. I think that is now
15:20 holding Doncaster back or certainly has in the first 11 games. You don't want to miss
15:27 out on an opportunity to get promoted this season because of a lack of squad depth. It'll
15:33 be interesting to see if the club, as we spoke about yesterday, can do get to the bottom
15:37 of it or have done. So yeah, I think some of the frustrations are still there. You are
15:42 right there, Paul. They are going to be off days and McCann warned about that at the start
15:47 of the season. I think he was trying to just manage expectations and he said there will
15:51 be tough times, tough games, etc. Yeah, they're frustrating because sometimes you think the
15:56 club has moved forward on the pitch and then they go and put in a performance where they
16:01 get humbled a little bit and you look at the league table and you could easily be mistaken
16:06 to think not much has changed. I think that's the perception of quite a few people from
16:10 the outside looking in. But for those of us who follow things a bit closer than that,
16:14 we know that's not the case and there are some really encouraging signs. I think tomorrow
16:18 is a good chance to go there and lay down a marker.
16:24 Is there some light at the end of the tunnel in terms of injuries, dare I ask?
16:29 I hope so. We were told that Jack Senior was close, that Ian Lawler was close. We know
16:35 Lawler is close because the last two games he's been involved in the pre-match warm-up.
16:39 Richard Wood was said to be not too far away. Likewise, I think John Taylor is, to quote
16:45 Grant, 'back on the grass' now. Harrison Biggins was just a niggle so should be in consideration
16:51 for this weekend. Kyle Hurst, who obviously was a key player last year and someone who,
16:57 if you think perhaps with Tyler Roberts and Deji Zetona perhaps gone off the boil a little
17:02 bit in recent weeks, there's an opportunity there for someone to come in and really add
17:06 some healthy competition for a starting spot and someone who could potentially improve
17:10 a starting XI. Last week, again, he was another player who at one point seemed like he was
17:15 quite close. We were expecting him to be named in the team sheet and then he's back out again.
17:20 So there's a few that aren't far away. I think Miller, even though there's some encouraging
17:25 news on him, is probably looking at next month. Sterry a little bit behind him and James Maxwell
17:31 probably a similar timescale. So they're not a million miles away, but I suppose you have
17:36 to factor in no club is ever going to be totally injury free. And it seems to be the case at
17:41 Doncaster that they get one back and they lose someone else or they lose two. So it
17:47 is what it is. They are part and parcel of football. But there's sometimes, I mean, whether
17:52 it's bad luck or whether it's something deeper, who knows? But yeah, that's really got to
17:57 be something that you've just got to try and get a clean bull of health at some point soon.
18:02 So that because I think if I'm honest, the answer is not in the transfer market for McCann
18:08 or Doncaster in January. I think there's still lots of options within the building that Grant
18:13 McCann this season hasn't been able to call upon. So, yeah, I think you've still got some
18:17 really good players on that front to come back and fingers crossed it's not too long
18:21 on that front.
18:23 I've noticed you've mentioned the P word a few times as we've gone along for motion.
18:27 Do you get the sense from inside the club that that's still on the agenda? Because,
18:31 I mean, again, you could look at it and think, well, is this a season where we just get to
18:35 50 points and sort of steady the ship and go from there?
18:39 Yeah, I think they keep saying there's plenty of time left. It was their favourite word
18:45 over the summer. So, you know, they're not going to get away with it. They're not going
18:49 to be able to dial it down because it's on them if they don't do it. I think there is,
18:58 you know, there's 35 games left. I used the example of Bolton in today's piece and Stockport
19:03 last season were that team who went on a run in the second half of the season and got themselves
19:08 very close to automatic promotion in the end. I think the one thing, the most encouraging
19:14 thing I can probably say is that when they've looked good Doncaster, they've looked more
19:17 than capable of competing with some of the top teams in the league, you know, Crawley
19:21 and Gillingham. The league isn't as up and down or top and bottom, I should say, than
19:28 we've probably first thought at the start of the season. It's been a bit of a reminder,
19:33 I think, that yes, this is probably the strongest it's ever been on paper, but it's still League
19:37 Two. And even those teams at the top of the tree are being beat. No one would have expected
19:43 Crewe or Crawley to be up there. I know Crawley have dropped out of the automatic spots for
19:50 now and that will be the case, but there is an opportunity there. There's obviously a
19:55 few clubs that have not to countenance, look very strong. Stockport, another team you might
19:59 expect to be up there. So there's some that look good, that look really strong, but they're
20:03 all beatable. So I think if it is to happen, Paul, perhaps we have to just expect that
20:11 it might be the case that perhaps come March I'm writing stories that say, you know, Rovers
20:17 would happily take it to the final day of the season. Maybe they might be chasing for
20:23 the majority of the season, given their start, or certainly for the next couple of months.
20:28 But I don't think it's beyond their reach and I don't think they've written it off yet
20:33 either. And they're certainly not making those noises around dialing down expectations either.
20:40 This month could tell us a lot, couldn't it? Because after Stockport, on paper, it
20:45 looks like a run of fairly winnable games. So we'll soon see, I think, in terms of those
20:50 sorts of credentials.
20:52 Yeah, and it's worth pointing out that they've had a tough start on paper. So when you think
20:59 they've done all right, really, there's obviously some disappointing results, but the more disappointing
21:04 results you'd pick out are probably Harrogate at home, the 1-0 defeat, the 4-0 away drubbing
21:11 at Newport, which took everyone by surprise. To go to Wrexham and to lose a relatively
21:16 close game 2-1, there's no shame in that. I think I wasn't at the Notts County game,
21:21 you were there, Paul. And it seems to me that that's the only game Doncaster talk about
21:26 as the one where they were firmly second best and maybe even blown away a little bit and
21:31 taken by surprise by a good team with a good budget that have been together for a long
21:35 time and are probably in that place where Doncaster hope to be in 12 months. So there's
21:40 no shame in that necessarily. And yeah, you are right now. I think it's a quarter of the
21:46 way of the season. I think after tomorrow, 12 games, it's just over a quarter, isn't
21:50 it? So they can't afford to hang around for too much longer. And I don't think they need
21:57 major surgery in January. So I don't envisage huge changes because like I said before, I
22:04 think they've got a lot of the answers already in the building if they can get those guys
22:07 fit and play them well and keep them fit as well. So yeah, if they can put a run together
22:14 over these next few weeks, even if it's just not getting beat and picking up a couple of
22:18 draws, I don't think a draw tomorrow would be a bad result by any stretch, then things
22:24 will improve. Inevitably, when you're in the position Doncaster are in, you're going to
22:28 be beating teams that are above you in the table more than likely. So you'll start closing
22:32 the gap. But I appreciate all these things are easier said than done. And Rovers, like
22:36 we know, are prone to just an absolute mess of a result and a performance now and then.
22:43 So you've got to try and limit those as much as possible and have more nights like Tuesday.
22:48 But thankfully, I'm not a football manager, so I don't have to figure out how to do that.
22:53 And just finally, just quickly, Stockport tomorrow. Thoughts on that one?
22:56 Tough game, but I was a little bit put out when someone from the forum contacted me earlier
23:03 in the week to ask some questions. He said, 'Will Doncaster park the bus again?' Hopefully,
23:08 they'll be a little bit more positive tomorrow. But I think, like I said earlier, first and
23:12 foremost, don't get beat. A draw isn't a bad result there. That will be a close to sellout
23:17 crowd again. And it's one of those stadiums where you can feel the crowd getting behind
23:21 the team and that can lift people. Doncaster did very well, really, to get a nil-nil draw
23:27 there back in March, I think it was. So I take that result, to be totally honest, and
23:31 that might seem negative, but that would represent a good return on paper for the two games this
23:36 week. But I believe there's enough there to go there and potentially win. But in terms
23:42 of how you do that, I think maybe a good old-fashioned away performance with some nows might be what's
23:47 needed tomorrow, as in keeping it tight at the back and get forward where you can and
23:52 see if you can nick one. And there's nothing wrong with winning games like that. The truth
23:56 is they're going to have to pick up some results like that if they are to move up the table.
24:02 It's not always going to be pretty. So, head says... Well, heart says Donny win always.
24:09 Head says draw or Stockport win. So I've covered all basis, but I'll go with a draw.
24:15 I'm optimistic. I've forgotten actually, what did you predict before a ball was kicked?
24:20 Because I can't quite recall that.
24:21 The league position, I think it was somewhere around the top seven. I might be going backwards
24:30 on my own words there. I don't think I said automatic promotion, but I can't be 100% sure.
24:35 I still think that's within reach potentially if they can get on a run. But I think it will
24:41 depend on what we might have to see is one of those brilliant runs of 15 wins out of
24:46 20 or something like Baldwin did. It's going to have to emulate that. Whether they're good
24:50 enough, we'll see.
24:52 Thanks, Steve. Great stuff. Let's see what the next month has in store.
24:57 Brilliant. Take care.
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