Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Rob Bailey, joined by Labour and Co-operative Councillor Lauren Edwards from Medway Council and leader of Canterbury City Council, Councillor Alan Baldock.
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00:00 Welcome to the Kemp Politics Show live on KMTV. I'm Rob Bailey. And this week has had
00:27 more will they won't they speculation than an entire season of Love Island. Prime Minister
00:32 Rishi Sunak is cracking on with the smoking ban and A-level reforms, grafting over tax
00:37 cuts and has mugged off HS2. And the less we mention Nigel Farage's steamy dance with
00:42 Priti Patel, the better. So we'll start instead with the smoking ban. Children aged 14 and
00:48 under today will never in their lives be able to buy cigarettes under a new law proposed
00:53 by Rishi Sunak. Here's how people in Medway reacted today. Yeah, it's a very good idea.
00:58 Yeah. Why do you think that? Because smoking is no good, isn't it? I don't smoke. I don't
01:06 like smoking. And so anything that stops people smoking, I kind of agree with. But then on
01:12 the other end, you've got people's rights. So I think it should include vapes too. Yeah,
01:17 yeah. Because there's all these reports coming out how damaging the vape can be. I think
01:22 the government should do the same for alcohol. No. Why? Do you believe that? I don't know.
01:28 It's a bit different. It's different? Yeah, I think it's a bit different. What's different?
01:32 Because I like a drink. That's why I'd say the truth. I mean, it's good for like, yeah,
01:40 current people to like not smoke anymore. And like, it helps people to like, not get
01:45 addicted to it at an early age. Well, with the Labour Party conference due to start on
01:51 Sunday, I'm joined this week by two senior Labour politicians. Alan Baldock is leader
01:55 at Canterbury City Council and Lauren Edwards is a cabinet member at Medway and the parliamentary
02:00 candidate for Rochester and Stroud. Welcome, both of you. Lauren, we should see that. He's
02:05 getting a lot of credit for the smoking ban that he proposed during his speech at the
02:11 party conference. But of course, it actually isn't his idea. It came in in New Zealand.
02:15 It was proposed first in this country by Wes Streeting of Labour in January. Is that a
02:21 bit of a political misstep, do you think, that he's now able to say this is a conservative
02:24 policy, he's beaten you to the march? Not necessarily, because I think it's quite widely
02:30 known that it was a Labour idea coming from our colleagues in the Labour Party in New
02:35 Zealand. So I actually see it as a big win for us that we're coming forward with such
02:40 innovative ideas that Tories are having to piggyback on our ideas and implement them
02:44 in government. Do you support the smoking ban? Yeah, I do. And Alan, do you? Yeah, I
02:50 do, definitely. That's the interesting thing about this, isn't it? It's cross-party consensus.
02:53 We know Labour have already said that they'll vote for it, which means that smoking in this
02:57 country is pretty much done. We know that that ban is very, very likely to be approved
03:02 in Parliament. But there are some interesting questions about how that will be implemented,
03:06 aren't there? Alan, we're in a situation where a 14-year-old in Kent today will never be
03:10 able to buy a cigarette, but their 15-year-old mates or their older siblings will always
03:15 be able to buy a cigarette. There are some obvious loopholes in this law, aren't there?
03:19 There are. There are obviously loopholes. It's not going to be a perfect fix, but it's
03:23 a really big, big message out there that we mean what we say. And trying to stop smoking
03:28 with kids going forward, that would be amazing. Let's make a start. We are going to have loads
03:34 of things to sort out if we put this into law. But I'd sooner sort a few problems out,
03:40 really, than just kick it out now. It's a long-term thing, isn't it? And if it discourages
03:45 kids from starting, that's what it's all about. A long-term thing obviously was the theme
03:49 of the Conservative conference, wasn't it? Long-term solutions. The idea of ID checks,
03:55 that there might be in the future a position where someone in their mid-40s or 50s is going
03:59 to turn up at a corner shop and be asked for a driving licence before they buy cigarettes.
04:03 Can we really expect that to be a practical thing that will actually happen in shops all
04:07 over Kent? So my presumption is that it would, but I think, again, it's helpful to have a
04:12 discussion with our colleagues in New Zealand to see how they've got around some of these
04:17 thorny practical issues, because it does to us sound a little bit ridiculous, but actually
04:21 if it's going to save lives, if it's going to stop a lot of young people taking up smoking
04:26 that's going to be incredibly harmful to their health, then I think it's worth pursuing and
04:30 really working about how we can make it work in practice. And this is likely to end up
04:34 being an enforcement issue that will come through licensing, I imagine, a little bit,
04:38 through borough councils. Do you think there's going to be some additional challenges for
04:42 borough councils enforcing this? Inevitable. It's like the drinking and underage buying
04:48 of glue and all sorts of things. Of course it comes. We overcome the problems. I mean,
04:54 if you need to have some sort of age ID, generally speaking I think people are sensible and get
05:00 on the right side of that anyway. So it is interesting to me, obviously the political
05:03 consensus here is that tobacco is so bad for people's health that we have to do something
05:07 about it. Could we say the same, as we heard someone saying in our Vox Pop just a moment
05:13 ago, about alcohol, which as we know, 40% of violent crimes are attributed to alcohol,
05:18 50% of domestic violence attributed to it. There are 200,000 children living in this
05:22 country now with alcohol dependent parents. But no political party would touch it, would
05:28 they, Laura? Well, I do wonder if there's a distinction
05:31 between the levels of addiction with alcohol. Anecdotally I think I maybe know more people
05:37 who are able to drink moderately than they are if they're smoking. So I wonder if there's
05:42 some research or some investigation around that that might make a clear distinction between
05:49 the two. What do you think, Alan? Could that ever be
05:51 on the table? I think we've learnt a lot about alcohol
05:56 enforcement, haven't we, from generations of doing just that. We need to be stricter
06:02 sometimes and we need to have more enforcement, but like everything, it's really hard to get
06:08 more police, more enforcement officers and all those sort of things. But we have learnt
06:13 a lot of lessons in enforcing alcohol laws and I think we just have to trust our own
06:19 skill and judgement, if you like, in that and our common sense of most people in this
06:23 country. But you're right, it's horrible some of the things that go on and that's
06:27 what the laws are there to try and protect. So let's try and do that.
06:32 I have to ask, as we're on lifestyle and the kind of nanny state kind of policies that
06:36 some people might characterise it, Labour have come under fire over the last couple
06:40 of weeks from Conservatives about some of the laws that you want to, or you're said
06:45 to want to bring in, that might control people's behaviour. The classic one has been the red
06:49 meat tax. Now, the same justification that's being used for tobacco could potentially be
06:54 applied to something like a red meat tax. Do Labour really think that that might be
06:57 a thing?
06:58 No, I think that that particular message from the Conservatives was part of a package of
07:04 ideas that actually nobody in this country was seriously proposing and I think that they're
07:09 just grasping for some ideas to appeal to a very specific sort of anti-woke kind of
07:17 agenda but actually none of those policies that they have come out and said that they
07:22 wouldn't allow to happen were actually being seriously proposed by anybody and actually
07:27 as a country we are dealing with lots of really serious issues at the moment and for me it
07:32 just makes them look like a deeply unserious party that's not in touch with the issues
07:36 that real people are facing.
07:37 So we have no chance of Keir Starmer standing at a podium over the next few days saying
07:41 I'm going to tax red meat.
07:42 I think he might be vegetarian actually but I don't think that that is ever anything
07:48 that he would be proposing to do, no, it's a personal choice issue I think on that one.
07:56 The other big surprise in which you see that speech, other than the smoking ban, was another
07:59 revamp of post-16 education. It means children who started Kent's primary schools this year
08:04 will take a new advanced British standard qualification after their GCSEs. Lauren, you're
08:10 at Medway Council, a unitary authority, you are in charge of the schools in this part
08:13 of Kent. We're talking here about maths and English being taught to 18. Is that physically,
08:18 is that actually possible at the moment?
08:21 I think that there's a real focus on maths and English from the government at the moment
08:26 and I do understand it but what I would say is it's not necessarily right for everybody.
08:31 So when I speak to a lot of people and I go to some of the technical colleges, a lot of
08:37 children do struggle with those and they are important skills but actually it can be very
08:41 demotivating if you are requiring somebody who wants to stay in education but isn't necessarily
08:48 excelling in maths, wants to go off and get a technical qualification to give them some
08:53 skills, give them some confidence, good job prospects, to then be requiring them to do
08:58 something that they're not enjoying and is perhaps holding them back. So I think there
09:03 needs to be a bit of common sense put in around this.
09:06 This is being proposed just three years after the T levels came in. They were a brand new
09:10 technical alternative to the A levels. Have they had long enough balance?
09:14 No. I think it's really demotivating for the staff in colleges and our schools, demotivating
09:22 for young people. They just don't know where they're going. Let's have some long term sensible
09:30 education plans that people can focus on. Education, you start at five and you finish
09:34 at like 105 don't you? We never stop learning do we? And we should have opportunity all
09:41 through our life and just keep chop changing around the dressing of a qualification doesn't
09:47 make that qualification as valuable as it could be.
09:51 So the danger of that kind of chop changing of course is if we get a Labour government
09:55 next year and you decide not to go with the advanced British standard, do we go back to
09:59 where we are now? Does something else happen? Do you think Labour could end up changing
10:04 things again?
10:06 I think we do need some stability in our education sector at the moment. That's something that
10:10 I definitely hear from teachers is let's have some stability. It depends on when an election
10:16 is called. The kinds of plans that have been announced, I don't necessarily get the sense
10:20 that they've been fully thought through. So there would need to be some work on that.
10:25 I would hope that we would be able to come in and bring some fresh ideas, which I know
10:29 that we do have and not necessarily continue with something that I think actually isn't
10:34 necessarily grappling with the real issues that are in our education system at the moment,
10:38 which is actually around teacher recruitment, about the fact that a lot of our schools have
10:42 walls that are falling in under this government. So that's what we need to be focusing on.
10:48 I think not what the government has proposed this week.
10:51 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There's no disagreement there at all. I mean, they have to focus on
10:56 getting the basic standards of education really high. And Labour has promised to get really
11:01 good standards for everybody in education.
11:05 It's easy to promise that, but the money's not going to be there, is it, to quickly invest
11:09 in schools?
11:10 No. And that needs the long-term investment. Again, it's that phrase again, that we've
11:13 actually been saying that for years and years in Labour. And just keep changing the frame
11:19 of it, just say, oh, it's not at my level, it's at something else level or at T-level
11:22 or T-level, and we'll get schools together. That doesn't solve anything. I mean, we need
11:25 a good standard of education. Call it what you like. We've got them standards now. People
11:29 are getting used to using them. Young people are getting used to using them. Teachers are
11:32 getting used to teaching them. Leave it alone. You know, let's get on with it and then start
11:36 building the walls and putting the roofs back on.
11:38 Let's get on with it. Good advice. We've got to take a short break there. When we come
11:42 back, we'll look ahead to the Labour Party conference. Does Labour have the right answers
11:45 to stop small boats crossing the Channel? And which party would invest more in Kent's
11:49 roads and public transport? Stay with us.
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15:07 Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV.
15:11 Next tonight, what should Kent families and businesses expect from a possible future Labour government?
15:17 The party's annual conference starts on Sunday.
15:20 Hot topics are likely to include the cost of living crisis,
15:23 Labour's plans for immigration and our future relationship with the EU.
15:27 Well, still with me is prospective parliamentary candidate for Rochester and Strood, Lauren Edwards,
15:32 and Canterbury City Council leader, Alan Baldock.
15:35 Great that you're here.
15:37 Let's start with the small boats.
15:39 It was one of the defining issues of the last week or so with the Conservative conference.
15:43 We heard some very strong and powerful language from Suella Braverman in particular
15:47 on what the Conservatives' approach to dealing with this is.
15:51 Do you think, Lauren, that that language, that rhetoric that we've heard there,
15:55 it forces Labour to say something about it?
15:58 And do you think we're going to see a new approach from Keir Starmer about it this weekend?
16:02 So, I mean, I think the language that she used was awful, quite frankly, and really divisive.
16:08 I think that Labour has already set out a really clear plan for dealing with the small boat situation,
16:13 and it's a much different one to what I would describe as quite a failed regime
16:18 in terms of their plans for Rwanda, which haven't stopped the boats
16:22 and are actually incredibly expensive and aren't working.
16:25 So, you know, we've set out a plan that is much more collaborative,
16:28 working cross-border through a special force to make sure that, you know,
16:32 we have better ties with the French and our European partners to try and tackle this issue.
16:37 And I think what's really important about the Labour plan and Keir Starmer's plan
16:41 is dealing with the current backlog.
16:43 We have a lot of asylum seekers in hotels,
16:46 and the Tories aren't really talking about how they're dealing with that.
16:49 And we've said that we'd invest in creating a thousand case officers
16:53 and have those kind of Nightingale style that we had during the pandemic courts
16:57 to try and process everybody as quickly as possible.
17:00 So, make a decision and deal with it that way.
17:02 And the Tories aren't talking about how they're dealing with the backlog at all.
17:05 You're not quite a coastal constituency, but you're heading that way over in East Kent.
17:09 I had Craig McKinley on the show.
17:11 We've been airing an interview I did with him all week this week on KMTV.
17:15 And he talks in not dissimilar language as Sir Oliver Brotherman
17:19 about the frustration with France and about how difficult this issue is.
17:22 There'll be a lot of people in East Kent who agree with them, won't there?
17:25 There will be.
17:27 The rhetoric, often by the Tories, just stokes up hatred
17:31 and it makes it OK to be horrible to fellow human beings.
17:35 And that is not in Labour's DNA, to be honest about it.
17:39 It's all about giving people a fair chance and a fair break
17:42 and being absolutely fair from beginning to end, people.
17:45 If you're not entitled to come to this country, for whatever reason,
17:49 then OK, you're processed fairly quickly and returned to your country.
17:55 That's what it's always been like.
17:57 But we should always reflect on the fact that in terrible times,
18:00 like after the Second World War,
18:02 we did take in thousands of people from Europe.
18:06 And likewise, this problem is not a British-only problem,
18:10 English-only problem, it is a European problem.
18:13 Italy and Germany and France and the Italian border, if you like,
18:19 of the sea there, hundreds of thousands of people
18:22 cross from North Africa into Southern Europe.
18:26 It's not only this piece of water between France and the UK that's the problem,
18:32 it's the European problem.
18:34 So we're absolutely right for Labour to focus on getting to the root cause
18:38 of the problem in tackling the gangs in Europe
18:43 before people actually get to even Europe.
18:47 That's where the work needs to be.
18:49 Smugglers is where the focus needs to be.
18:52 The other gauntlet that has been thrown down alongside that one
18:55 over the last week has been about investment in infrastructure.
18:58 We know HS2 dominated the headlines at the latter end
19:02 of the Conservative conference.
19:05 It's no point really asking whether Labour would bring it back.
19:08 The land's all going to be sold off probably by then.
19:11 But we've got £36 billion coming in.
19:14 Do you agree, first of all, HS2, would you have kept it going?
19:17 Do you think the government could afford to keep that project alive?
19:22 I think Labour was always supportive of it.
19:24 It was a large, long-term programme that was going to be really beneficial
19:29 to lots of places in the north.
19:32 I think the issue that we've got now is so much time and money
19:36 has been spent on it and now all of that is being wasted.
19:39 I think even 24 hours before he officially made his decision,
19:42 the government was still buying up properties in that line.
19:45 So it doesn't make any sense to me at all, to be honest.
19:49 But as you say, I think that they've made the decision
19:51 and it will be very difficult for us to reverse that.
19:54 There is a throwing good money after bad element to this, isn't there,
19:58 which is what Rishi Sunak said.
20:00 The amount of money we've spent so far doesn't mean we have to keep spending money.
20:03 What do you think about that?
20:05 They've been managing the project for 13 years.
20:07 If they've managed to overspend it over 13 years,
20:10 it's their fault for being overspent.
20:12 It's certainly not the next generation's fault.
20:14 So Rishi Sunak defended his decision to scrap HS2
20:17 by saying it would unlock £36 billion for other transport projects
20:21 and at least one of them will be here in Kent.
20:24 It's Brenley Corner, which links the A2, M2 and the Thanet Way near Folkestone.
20:28 Here's how Adrian Golvin, the leader of Medway's Conservative group, reacted to the news.
20:33 I think that's really good news for us here in Kent.
20:36 I hope that means that the Lower Thames crossing will go ahead
20:41 because a lot of us residents have to cross the Dartford crossing to get to work.
20:46 The present crossing everybody accepts is a complete nightmare.
20:49 And the other one I've heard that may be in the pipeline is Brenley Corner,
20:54 which is an absolute nightmare
20:56 and that's one I use regularly when my wife and I go down to visit Canterbury.
21:01 Any investment in Kent's roads will be, I think, very, very welcome indeed.
21:05 Obviously Brenley Corner is an important area for access to Canterbury
21:10 for an awful lot of people coming down the M2.
21:12 Do you welcome that announcement of more funding?
21:15 It's only just been done up for the first time.
21:18 It's literally finished last year.
21:20 Of course, junction improvements are always welcome for traffic flow.
21:24 That's fine. Is it the most urgent job on the agenda?
21:28 I would suggest there's probably more urgent jobs than that.
21:31 Such as?
21:33 Such as trying to get actually a better system of walking, cycling, buses.
21:41 Infrastructure services in our towns and cities would be a far better spend of money
21:45 to be quite honest with you, than major roadworks.
21:49 And instead of total reliance on 106 and seal money to do those works,
21:54 maybe some government funding, much more government funding than we can squeeze now,
21:58 would make a huge difference to our very congested cities and towns in the South East.
22:03 Perhaps conspicuous by its absence in all of this was any reference to the Lower Thames Crossing,
22:07 which obviously at the other end of the county is the biggest road project
22:11 that the UK would embark on since the M25, a £9 billion tunnel under the Thames.
22:16 Do you think that that is still viable at this point?
22:20 Well, I don't really know what's happening with it because there's been such a delay, hasn't there?
22:25 And it's obviously costing a lot more than people originally imagined.
22:29 I mean, I think the status of it is unclear because the government's decision around a high-speed 2
22:36 has really sort of thrown a spanner into all of these big projects.
22:40 And actually what would be very helpful would be clarity from the government
22:43 because that project could be very beneficial and will have lots of impacts in different areas
22:48 and we actually need some clarity about what's going to be happening.
22:51 In a sense, what the Conservatives have done is kick the can down the road on that one.
22:54 They delayed the decision by two years. That pushes it definitely beyond the next general election
22:58 and could well mean that it's a Labour government that will need to make that decision.
23:02 Do you think Labour will be looking to spend that kind of money on infrastructure projects?
23:06 I think we'll have to look at it if we get in.
23:08 I can't necessarily guess what our position would be at the moment
23:12 but we would have to take a look at the books and the project management information that we have at the time.
23:18 More generally, you're both heading up to Liverpool this weekend, aren't you?
23:21 What do you think we can expect from Sir Keir?
23:25 What's he going to give Kent voters, do you think?
23:28 So I think the best thing that he's going to give is a plan for economic growth.
23:32 I think that is the key to everything that we're going to be able to deliver as a Labour government.
23:37 Traditionally we talk about wealth distribution.
23:40 Actually Keir and his team are talking about wealth creation and that's really, really important.
23:45 So I think the strong message about leadership, about the vision that he has for the country
23:51 underpinned by really strong economic growth is going to be the key thing that's going to be beneficial to Kent and Medway.
23:57 From the point of view of a city council, what can Sir Keir do for Canterbury?
24:01 All of that, but mainly with the fact that we have long-term planning.
24:06 We want to know what the government's support for us is going to be, not for six months,
24:11 not bidding for pots of a million pound or a hundred thousand pound or fifty thousand pound,
24:17 just to do some little tiny project, spending a fortune getting it, which has been notorious.
24:22 We're talking about things like the levelling up fund.
24:24 The levelling up fund is a great example of just a really stupid way of funding infrastructure and projects in the south-east.
24:30 The money should come to local councils.
24:34 Long-term, we will make decisions and spend our money wisely.
24:38 We will be accountable for that money every step of the way.
24:42 We always have been and we always will be, and we don't waste money.
24:45 We're a very efficient way of actually getting public services done.
24:48 We just want the opportunity to do it, not keep looking over our shoulder having our funds cut.
24:53 And we don't even know how much our funds are going to be cut again next year.
24:57 If we knew what the government was going to give in the grant, we don't yet.
25:01 And we're not far off the budget setting process beginning.
25:03 We're in the middle of it, all of us are doing the budget setting now.
25:05 And we still don't really, really know what money we're going to get from the government.
25:09 That's a crazy way to be.
25:12 So, long-termism, that's what we really want.
25:15 Trust us and we can do the job.
25:18 Very briefly, Lauren.
25:19 Sir Keir Starmer is generally seen as being, he's managed to convince people he's a competent, safe politician.
25:26 But can people love him?
25:28 I think so, yeah.
25:29 I think when I've met him, he comes across as a really friendly, amenable guy that you could go for a pint with.
25:35 So, yeah, I think the more that he shows his personality when he engages with people and in the media,
25:41 I think will be really, really beneficial because he has a really good vision for the country
25:46 and he just needs to also show a bit of his personality.
25:49 Still a lot of Labour supporters who would want to see Jeremy Corbyn in that chair, aren't they?
25:53 Potentially, yes.
25:54 Is that awkward for Labour?
25:56 I don't think so.
25:57 I mean, we're just looking at the future.
25:59 I mean, look at the position for us in the polls.
26:01 We're doing really well.
26:02 We've just won a huge by-election with a 20% swing in our favour.
26:06 So, the place that we're at at the moment is all positive
26:10 and we just have to continue to make that case to the country that we can be trusted and be the next government.
26:14 And there, thank you very much.
26:15 That's all we've got time for this week.
26:17 If you want more political news, then please go to Kent Online,
26:21 which has a new political section with news analysis and everything that you're looking for from around Kent and Medway.
26:28 And this week's top stories include a forecast of how the general election might play out in Kent
26:33 and why four Maidstone female councillors said that they wouldn't want Alicia Russo to get an honour from the borough.
26:39 Thank you so much for my guests coming in tonight.
26:42 We'll be back next week.
26:44 Stay with us because Kent Tonight is coming up.
26:46 Have a great weekend.
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