Hoosier Roundtable Podcast: Kel'el Ware, Malik Reneau 2023-24 Player Previews
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00:00 Hello everybody and welcome to the Hoosier Roundtable podcast. We are here today of course to talk to you about the Chicago Bears winning
00:07 I almost wanted to start that for Jack after his Bears finally finally got a big win last night
00:13 But no, we are here to talk about Malik Renaud and Kalel Ware who are two bigs for Indiana this year
00:20 And this is the first like combined player preview we're doing
00:23 I'm definitely gonna have a full segment on both Malik and Kalel, gonna be very important players to this year's Indiana basketball team
00:29 But before I ramble on any further, I should introduce my co-host Jack Ankeny. Jack, how are you doing today?
00:34 Doing pretty good. Like you mentioned it felt good for the Bears to finally get one first time in almost a full year
00:41 So yeah, it was good. And you know basketball is right around the corner just a couple weeks away from
00:46 first exhibition game and we've got a
00:49 Two players that will obviously be very important for this year's team. So lots of breakdown
00:55 Yeah, and today we're gonna start with Malik who is the returning player of the two
01:00 Like you said, obviously they're both kind of big roles
01:02 But Malik we've at least seen have a smaller role of Indiana like he did last year
01:06 Basically came off the bench. I think was it every game or did he start in one where I think or I think it was
01:14 One or two. Yeah, he started kind of in the non-conference. There were a few games where
01:21 Trace Jackson Davis was like, you know dealing with that kind of lower back injury that seemed
01:25 Maybe like kind of a load management type thing where like it's not that he was too hurt, but you know
01:31 They didn't want to
01:33 Give him too many minutes. So yeah, Malik started a handful of those non-conference games, but mostly served as Trace's backup
01:41 kind of played with him a little bit too at times, but
01:45 Definitely, you know a good player to learn from when you're a freshman
01:50 Yeah, for sure
01:51 Probably helped by a lot by it's a reductive to say they're the same kind of player when it's when it just linked to any
01:57 kind of two kind of basketball players
01:58 But I mean both six nine centers with some handling chops who were very very very left-handed
02:05 Like it was hard not to probably drop
02:08 I very much understand any Indiana fan who like watched last year and said Oh Malik's baby Trace in some ways
02:16 obviously there up stuff you get better at to improve that but
02:20 Kind of like offering some of the same types of things. So with that I'll probably just start for you
02:24 What did you see from a leak last year and like what it has you excited about it? I think entering 2023-24
02:28 Yeah, I think compared to a lot of freshmen. He's he's very polished and kind of
02:33 You know he has you can tell like when he gets the ball on the block like he knows there's like a couple moves that
02:41 he can go to and
02:42 You know, he's not just kind of barreling into guys or things like that
02:47 He's he's kind of very precise and in certain moves that he wants to get to
02:51 I was always very impressed with kind of the touch he had
02:54 whereas like I feel like
02:57 you know freshman or sophomore year trace there was times when
03:00 You know, he would try to just bully through guys and throw it up there and hope it goes in but Malik definitely seemed
03:07 very calculated and and kind of
03:10 Polished in that sense. I think kind of to your comparison
03:16 Kind of the baby trace type thing. I think there is some potential with that because Malik showed some flashes
03:22 Of being able to handle the ball kind of like trace was able to do as a senior
03:27 Not quite the same passing skills, but you know, maybe that can come along as he gets older
03:34 If I could if I could interrupt you here
03:36 I said because I was just thinking about this. I think like the biggest differences
03:40 I think the handle and just obviously how left-handed they are in the way they can operate in the post
03:44 Could be pretty similar the biggest differences
03:46 I would see for Malik positively is that I do think he has more shooting touch from distance like better
03:52 So like there's a better chance Malik could just shoot threes than trace ever could. Yes, that would probably be his advantage
03:57 trace is a at least
04:00 Definitely in a senior year compared to Malik last year and I think probably just moving forward
04:04 There's a much better vertical athlete than Malik is Malik
04:07 Just nothing we can't jump is just trace to get off the ground pretty quickly
04:11 Like he didn't need a lot of load time Malik's pretty set when he jumps and you could see it with the way he plays
04:16 Defense which when I watch Malik, I'm impressed with how smart of a defender
04:20 He is like knowing how to use his body knowing how to be physical. He's pretty well built
04:24 Like they had him. I was watching the Ohio State game
04:27 They're having guard Bryce sensible like they trusted him to guard some wing this way
04:30 He's an interesting defensive piece and like when we talk about Cole later Cole later
04:36 Cole later this bad tongue twister, but like that's kind of how Malik could fit with him because
04:43 He might be able to guard some of those wings and sometimes with his athleticism
04:47 But Malik doesn't really try and jump to block too many shots
04:51 He often likes to keep his hands vertical and stay grounded trying to avoid fouls or use physicality
04:56 He's just not much of like he is not the explosive leaper that trace was so he he's probably not ever not gonna be though
05:03 Sometimes in any trace could be limited as a lob threat
05:06 But he's definitely not gonna be that kind of lob or rim protector that trace was but like you said
05:11 He's probably asked a different role
05:13 We'll have a different kind of center plate next to him and has more potential than trace did to shoot three and spot on the
05:18 Space of floor, right?
05:19 There are definitely some differences and I I didn't didn't mean to you know
05:23 Say that they're they're exactly the same because I do think Malik will you know, like I don't know if you've seen this clip
05:29 but there was one of the exhibition games last year where you know, he like faced up at like the free throw line and
05:36 You know went between his legs behind his back. It's like a step back mid-range jumper and it was like, oh my gosh
05:42 This guy is you know in his third game or it was it might have even been the first exhibition game
05:47 But it was very early early in the season. It's like alright, this guy's very clearly skilled and
05:53 probably the biggest difference between him and traces the athleticism Malik probably won't be the lob threat that traces but I
06:00 think one of the biggest things that that Indiana needs out of Malik this year is to stay out of foul trouble because
06:07 There were a lot of games last year where Woodson was like, you know, they wanted to play Malik, but I think it's 19 games
06:17 Out of the 35 that he had at least three fouls and he probably fouled out
06:23 That's where I'm just checking right now. That is right
06:25 He has he had four he had four or more fouls in 11 and fouled out of two games, right?
06:30 so there were a lot of instances where
06:32 you know, he would just go in to give trace, you know a little break or to kind of play with trace and and
06:39 and he would just pick up these ticky-tack fouls where
06:44 You know, it's not like he was
06:46 Hacking the guy or things like that. You know there I'm sure there were some instances of that but
06:52 just small plays where
06:54 Where he just picks up kind of these unnecessary fouls that what's in kind of you know
07:00 that was a big narrative with Malik last year where Woodson was trying to teach him kind of how to
07:04 defend without fouling because they needed him on the court a lot of times last year and
07:09 You know if he's gonna be able to step into a starting role this season and obviously play more minutes than he did
07:15 Last season, you know, that's gonna be a big part just being able to stay on the court
07:22 You know, he played fourteen point nine minutes last year per game, you know that probably
07:27 At least goes up to 24
07:30 you know at least ten more minutes than
07:34 Then last season maybe even more than that kind of depending on how the you know
07:38 I do think Indiana is a deep front court, but you know, he's gonna be asked to play more
07:42 Minutes than he did last year and and that fouling trouble, you know definitely has to go away
07:48 Yeah, I just looked at it ten fouls per 100 possessions, which is to give it like perspective
07:55 I think that's close to a late career Dwight Howard number, which you don't want to be there
08:00 You do not want to be fouling like late career Dwight Howard
08:02 That was pretty much the only reason he ever got something was to foul a few other centers and annoyed them
08:08 So yeah, definitely agree with that. I think when I've seen him like
08:12 Again, I do like the way he uses his chest on defense to like not back down for people that there were a few times
08:18 where it's just
08:19 Aggression, I think that part of us being a young freshman and playing behind a guy like trace like you're trying to make plays
08:26 Jumping for every rebound maybe going over the back. He really tries to tap those rebounds to himself and
08:31 Yeah, again, then on defense just trying to be physical not back down. I
08:36 Think that it'll definitely tone itself down a little bit this more more this year probably zero be more of a message to the
08:43 Message to him this year. Okay?
08:45 There's no trace anymore
08:47 You're not just a bench piece up that we're gonna occasionally throw in here and that we can do without
08:51 And we just need you to go out there and be active make plays you get thousands. No problem
08:54 It's no Malik like you're one of the better players on the team if you're in foul trouble
08:59 That is a big problem for us
09:00 so there probably will be very strict communication and like
09:03 Some of these tiki tag plays or these plays we were so aggressive to make a play you have to like do that calculus in
09:09 your head
09:10 Of saying am I worth it?
09:12 Is it worth it to my team right now for me to go for this and when you're on the better players you kind of
09:16 Have to know hey, there's only five thousand this place not worth it to me
09:20 Like that it is more more important than us getting this play is me not having to be on the bench for six extra minutes
09:25 Right and and it didn't really cost Indiana in many games the foul trouble thing because you had trace and you had race
09:33 So it was it definitely hurt Indiana at times and and they probably would have played him more if he was able to stay out
09:39 of foul trouble, but it wasn't quite
09:41 To the impact that it will be this year. It's like no, Indiana needs you on the court like
09:48 Because even in kind of limited minutes like you think of that Xavier game
09:52 16 minutes he picked up four fouls, but he had 12 points and six rebounds
09:58 You know five for eight
10:00 shooting he missed one three so five four nine overall, but
10:04 You know, that's his
10:08 Third game of his college career in a really tough road environment
10:12 So I that was kind of one game that that stuck out stuck out to me
10:18 With Malik I saw you you tweeted
10:20 You know that clip from the Ohio State game last year where he was kind of part of that big
10:25 I think it was like a 15-0 run
10:27 To close the half and and really just ran Ohio State out of the gym like in that, you know
10:32 two or three minutes stretch
10:34 You know, I I think those were kind of two highlights from Malik
10:39 Last year. I'm sure there were some other games where you know, he kind of played some important pocket pockets of minutes
10:47 But you know, he's a guy that you know, he has the potential he came to Indiana as kind of a borderline five-star
10:55 I think he was like somewhere in the 30 30s or 40s
10:58 So just outside of kind of the top 25 which usually gets a five-star tag
11:03 So he's he's kind of like that
11:06 Stereotypical like can he make that sophomore leap and I think he's shown that he has the potential with kind of the skill set
11:13 He has you know being able to handle the ball. I think he's gonna shoot a fair amount of threes this year
11:18 You know soft touch around the rim like we mentioned
11:22 It just kind of relies on can he stay on the court, you know due to that foul trouble
11:27 Yeah, and mentioned that Ohio State game like
11:31 On the specific clip I showed where he hits a hook shot over a high state defender again
11:36 You see the strength there just like everyone knows he's going to his left and turning over his right shoulder
11:41 and he still gets there because I say it was a little bit smaller, but
11:44 He is just he's really well built and if you have like touching the skill at the size
11:49 He is at at six nine to thirty something basically, it's probably a rough estimate
11:53 So just it's just really hard to stop up this Cali like everyone knew what trace kind of wanted to do sometimes getting back
12:00 To it over his right shoulder the last years and like yeah, if you're strong enough and good enough
12:04 It's really hard to stop it even they know it's coming
12:06 But that there's one thing that I mentioned that I know Malik's going left
12:10 He is aggressively left-handed which a lot of lefties are but really does not like to go to his right and you can see it
12:16 he has so many plays where the defense baits him because
12:19 he has an open driving lane or an open lane a turn to his and just try and finish with his right hand and
12:24 Then he just spins back to his left again, which again it'll still work sometimes
12:29 so again, the best players can just score with their strong hand, even though
12:35 everyone knows it's coming but you would really like to see him more just a
12:38 Little more comfortable using the right hand every so often or at least when you watch trace do it last year some
12:45 He was pretty much only finishes left-handed a different ways to get to it
12:49 Malik is so much he can be like it's almost like watching a running back spamming HP dive like in an offense just
12:54 Going so downhill so get back to the left hand and just he needs to find ways to
13:00 Kind of vary that up and not be not be as predictable of that again. He was a freshman
13:05 Playing behind a really good center. He was just trying to do whatever he could
13:08 I think that definitely could come in time, but it's a big point of improvement for him and moving on
13:14 I think we mentioned there just how important the shot is gonna be because of his role probably this year
13:19 Playing those lines of trace last year
13:21 But spacing wasn't great in those a lot of times both guys sitting at the block now
13:25 Indiana was how good trace was often able to make it work
13:28 Kahlil probably again the unlock has a little more shooting potential than trace himself to probably of trace Malik and Kahlil
13:35 Kahlil be maybe the best shooter at the moment. It's hard to say. Yeah, but
13:39 yeah, so it's probably Malik will be asked to do a few different things, but
13:43 This journey is just important because we're we basically projected and I think most people agree with us that the starting line is gonna be
13:49 Xavier Johnson Trey, Galloway
13:51 Mackenzie and Baco Malik Renaud Kahlil Ware and
13:55 Malik if you looked at him just play I think most people say he's probably most natural at center
14:00 Although you understand the reasoning for playing that before
14:02 So that shot and just how he can handle and the perimeter skills he can offer
14:08 So that they do not have a ton of cluttered space will be really important this year
14:11 Yeah, and Malik played some power forward last year with trace on the court at the same time
14:18 I'm guessing I don't remember this as often, but I wouldn't be surprised if they played him and race a little bit
14:24 - so, you know, I I do agree with you that probably
14:28 You know
14:31 He might operate best
14:32 It's kind of the five but I do think like he showed some flashes of being able to
14:37 At least be a threat out on the perimeter kind of with his his ball handling and you know
14:42 I like we said, I think they'll shoot some threes this year
14:45 but that is kind of a you know, we've talked about it a lot like
14:48 Does that how does that spacing work out with him and in Baco and where?
14:54 if that's the three starters that woods enrolls with you know, or
14:58 Or does he opt to you know, bring one of them off the bench?
15:03 Whether that's probably more likely
15:06 Malik or Kalel, but I think they're gonna at least try to start the three of them at the start of the year
15:12 and that'll will really
15:15 Put an emphasis on like, you know, they can't all just be, you know, kind of operating in the lane
15:22 So that that will be interesting to see
15:24 Like we said, I think Malik showed some flashes of being able to do that last year
15:29 But you know definitely has to be able to stay out of foul trouble like we said and
15:36 things like that, so
15:39 Yeah, and just real quickly on his like shooting potential and the things we can offer from there
15:44 Obviously only hit two out of eight threes last year
15:47 So you mentioned the step back and range jumper there in his high school stats that we have available
15:52 Just did not hit a ton of threes in those either. Although I
15:55 Think I had that last year. He made 35 out of 49
15:59 Free throws which 71% pretty solid he was in like the decent 60s for most of his high school career
16:06 So like again, it's again. It's not the flashes with the shot there like it's not as important for
16:13 Him to be like high volume like it will be for Trey and X and for McKenzie
16:19 They really they really can't afford to have people just kind of daring them to shoot
16:23 Malik will probably get dared to shoot but as long as he
16:26 occasionally takes an open one and has
16:29 builds on those flashes of shooting potential and some soft touch that we've seen and just
16:33 Occasionally can be it just be a kick out option if they throw it in the club
16:36 If someone tries that he can be a viable option to the three from there
16:39 I think I'll be finding right it's a shot form like it is for most big like kind of set shot like he does like
16:45 It takes a while. His release is pretty long pretty set
16:49 It's not gonna again, there's not gonna be a he's not gonna be a movement shooter
16:52 Probably not be shooting threes off the dribble
16:54 What not gonna take a ton just really needs to be basic spot-up shooter if the defense gives it to you
17:00 He can take it and he can make it and a few times a game or right?
17:05 Right, I mean I kind of compare this to like race Thompson like his first three years at Indiana
17:10 he
17:11 attempted
17:13 28 total threes across three seasons and then that went up to 55
17:18 threes attempted as a
17:21 fourth year senior year and then 43
17:24 You know his fifth year senior year and that's obviously with a few less games because he missed due to injury
17:30 You know, he shot
17:33 1.6 a game and then 1.4 a game and shot just over 27% in both of those and
17:40 kind of like do you set you said a lot of those attempts were teams basically daring him to shoot and
17:46 I remember like Woodson just talking about how
17:49 You know when he's at least showing that he is capable of making that shot
17:55 It opens up things so much it opened up things so much more for trace down low
18:00 And I think you could see a similar effect this year if Malik, you know is able to prove
18:06 You know, he's not gonna go out there and shoot three or four of them a game, but if he can take one
18:10 Maybe two, you know every game or so and and prove that he is at least capable of making it
18:18 You probably want to see him make a little bit higher than 27% like race did like if he but even if he can get
18:25 that up to just like 30% on like
18:28 one attempt a game
18:30 You know, I think that will help open things up and just make Indiana less predictable or or less
18:36 Kind of clogged there in the in the middle if he can be a legitimate threat out there
18:43 You know not some high-volume guy or 40% shooter, but just capable, you know, I I think he can be that
18:50 Just in the in the limited stretches that we've seen
18:54 So that's kind of another thing to track with with Malik, I think
18:58 Well speaking of the middle and who he promised to make the space
19:01 love the space on the floor less clogged for Colell where who was
19:05 Along with Mackenzie and Baco the big get of the offseason for Mike Woods and the Hoosiers
19:09 Formerly a five-star recruit was probably projected to go in like the top 15 of last year's NBA draft
19:16 Heading up and down here at Oregon with a I think we're gonna really weird season all together
19:21 Not just with Colell but transferred to Indiana this offseason
19:25 Probably like will be his only year here in Bloomington if things go well
19:29 I think
19:30 Everyone agreed like the goal for him is probably to he probably still wants to go very high in the NBA draft
19:35 Uh, very very large human being as we discussed up like legit
19:40 I think it was like legit seven feet without shoes and then you put in shoes and it's close to seven to like
19:45 Just a large large man in there who's going to be a lot different kind of Center than trace and what we've seen from a week
19:52 So, I don't know how much you've got to watch from Colell so far or I know you've written about like why he came to Indiana
19:58 So maybe you just let people know what you're thinking about him for this upcoming season
20:02 Yeah
20:02 I mean
20:03 I think he is what I wrote about him and I see him as kind of Woodson's biggest test this season in terms of
20:10 Can you get the most out of a player and I think that's that's cool
20:16 I mean you could argue maybe in Baco too
20:18 But I think Colell who he was when he went to Oregon, you know, he was like you said on lottery boards and
20:26 he probably could have even left Oregon after his freshman year and been a late first round or
20:34 second round draft pick
20:36 you know when you look at kind of mocks that were posted around then like
20:39 people still saw he was an NBA talent and that kind of just speaks to
20:45 Just the potential he has and you know when we were at
20:48 Indiana basketball's media days a couple weeks ago. I asked Mike Woods and I was like, you know
20:54 What can you do to to reach his potential and I'll just kind of read this quote because I thought it was one of the
21:00 best things that what's and said
21:02 You know, he said you can't go back and get what happened the year before the word is out
21:06 They knocked you and said hey, you're lazy. You don't work hard. And if you make a commitment to me, that's got to change
21:12 I'm not always easiest coach to play for but I'm in your corner and I'm fair and I want what's best for you
21:18 I'm going to push him to play at a higher level and help us win ball games. So, you know, what's in I
21:24 He's been direct with Colell and said like hey people criticize you they knock you
21:29 but you still have all this potential and I'm gonna push you hard to get there and
21:34 I thought I think that's kind of Woodson's biggest challenge this year from an individual perspective
21:41 Obviously, he's got to get all the newcomers to be able to play well together
21:44 But he has this guy who's seven feet or taller that can you know?
21:50 Play a little bit on the perimeter. He can he can block shots. He's you know, he he moves pretty well
21:58 I think for you know, not a lot of seven fighters. I'm good
22:01 I'm gonna cook I'm gonna push back on the news pretty well
22:04 I and again like you're saying it's not even it's not really a fair critique
22:07 So I'm just like yeah, Colell doesn't move. Well most seven-foot human beings, right?
22:11 Like
22:14 other seven footers that you see in college basketball like
22:18 You know, I guess freshman year Zacky D who like okay
22:22 Yeah, Edie's different obviously because no one's that big but him but I would say again
22:28 then the difference here is that and you can see it with the way Malik moves like Malik moves pretty well because Malik's very clearly
22:33 Not seven feet tall. He's six eight six nine versus like no Colella is that tall like when he when Indiana Purdue play this year?
22:40 Colell versus Zacky D is just gonna be some like I can't I would love to be just
22:44 Courtside the entire game like as close as possible watch watching how tall you are a person just
22:50 Massive human beings. So yeah, Colell like and I've said this before in the podcast, so I won't go too far into it
22:57 I I think there definitely could be motor problems
23:01 That's definitely like fair to watch when you watch some of this organ tape
23:04 but I also think it's unfair to just completely assume that's all it was when
23:08 Guys who are slower who are bigger human beings are just gonna have harder time moving and moving all their limbs not to look
23:14 Super frenetic. It's a lot easier for someone like Trey Galloway to look like he has a high motor
23:19 It's easier from the new versus Colell. Yeah, he doesn't move. He doesn't move that fast
23:23 He probably never will but really has nothing to do with his motor
23:26 Like I think a better like indication if you want to see how close motor is on the floor
23:32 It's not how he's moving out there how he's running. It's
23:34 Maybe some body language stuff after he does if he doesn't get the bulks
23:38 I don't think they're gonna feed him in the post nearly as much as they did trace obviously or
23:42 Like just if he has a rough stretch of plays, how does he react to it?
23:47 How does Winston react to it if they're still keeping their heads and seem fine?
23:51 I think they understand that he's doing it best and it's all it's all good
23:54 if like
23:56 Say it's 10 games in Indiana struggling and what's in like I don't know
24:00 Has a game where we only place call like 15 minutes in the link like 30 then I think you can start to question
24:05 Okay, something might be I'm concerned here, but obviously that's such a it's a hypothetical that when we weren't reached till December
24:12 So it's not worth like, you know, really speculating big on that at this point and just with blocking shots
24:18 Like he obviously will do that some he didn't even block too many just because
24:21 His best thing is when he gets his hands up his wingspan
24:24 I think I have the official measurements from last time. It was checked here. If I just look up real quick. Yeah
24:30 believe it 2022 USA basketball he was measured at a little over 7 3 in wingspan, so
24:37 You know, it feels wrong to say. Oh, it's really not that much of a plus swings
24:41 But it's still a 7 3 wingspan like when he gets his arms up
24:44 he deter shots at the rim like that's such a valuable thing when you can have like a bust in your defense and
24:51 sometimes the driver will do the thing to just circle back out because they see Colelle hands up there and they're just like don't want
24:56 To challenge it especially smaller guard. That's a hugely valuable asset to your team to just kind of have a park there
25:01 It probably means Indiana's defense will look a lot different this year
25:04 You know a lot of activity with trace on pick and roll defense to get him out up there use a speed use
25:10 athleticism uses movement versus Colelle like
25:13 Order can had him play at the level of the screen
25:15 But he wouldn't go up above that and I think most people look at him say that could be definitely a drop center
25:21 Where hey, I'll stay in the paint the whole time
25:23 We'll live with it if they hit a bunch of mid-range pull-ups like god bless them. That's fine
25:28 versus
25:30 like if
25:31 You just move cook. I just think it's they're gonna say like hey clubs take away all the shots at the rim as possible
25:37 That's really the best thing you can do for our defense and I think you can do that
25:42 But we should probably talk a little bit more about what he can do on offense just because I think everyone understands
25:46 He can do some stuff on even so I think for this Indiana team in general
25:49 We have some confidence that their defense is gonna hold up just fine their size their athleticism
25:54 Close length in the back end like that
25:56 I don't when people draw the concerns for this Indiana basketball team. It is not always the defense gonna follow
26:01 I think it's more what does the offense do about Jalen?
26:04 But you know I traced Jackson Davis so and how does close it into that?
26:07 yeah, I think that the
26:10 Maybe the most likely area that he can
26:13 He can kind of provide a baseline of offense is you know what's in very clearly wants to run a lot of pick and roll
26:20 and you know when you're
26:22 seven foot seven two with the type of wingspan that Cole has I think he's gonna be a good lob threat for Indiana kind of
26:29 in
26:30 running that pick and roll with
26:32 with Xavier Johnson, and you know we asked actually at media day like
26:37 kind of the the difference of playing that two-man game with Cole versus trace and
26:43 You know he said that Cole can add a little pick and pop element to that like kind of like Malik like I think Cole will
26:50 Shoot a fair amount of threes this year not you know anything crazy, but
26:55 You know even last year. He shot 55 in 35 games, and that's only playing
27:05 15.8 minutes a game so
27:07 If that goes up a little bit
27:09 I think that will add to it, but I think if you can get him as as you know
27:14 Not many people are gonna be able to to jump or contend with you know
27:18 He's not like he doesn't have some crazy vertical, but just because of how tall he is like I
27:23 Think as a lob threat in the pick and roll that that's gonna be really really
27:28 Good way to use him like you said I don't think they're just gonna strictly post him up a whole lot
27:34 You know yes
27:36 He has some interesting post-up skills like he's definitely not the passer that trace was although
27:41 I honestly I was kind of impressed with his passing he definitely needs to improve them some of the skills in it
27:46 But you can see that he sees it like he was trying to make some passes that are tight windows like
27:50 He is not some black hole of passing in the post you you can get it to him
27:55 And he will look for it now
27:57 He's probably not gonna get double as often as trace was which just created so many passes naturally
28:01 And he does like have some solid shooting touch again
28:04 Like Indiana last you're gonna see a lot of hook shots except. He's gonna go to his right for those
28:08 But although he does he does he is not strictly like one hand dominant on his hook shots like he'll go to his left
28:14 It's given yeah
28:16 so you know I think
28:18 if you can just kind of be that consistent lob threat like I mentioned that that that seems like the
28:23 baseline of of what he can be and
28:26 You know kind of looking back at what he did at Oregon last year like he had some strong
28:32 Performances, and I know two of these were losses to UConn in Michigan State, but
28:36 18 points and nine rebounds 17 points and nine rebounds and then 13 and 7 against Villanova like
28:43 It almost felt like a lot of those games like kind of watching back those game highlights
28:48 you know he was making good plays on offense and being productive from a statistics standpoint, but
28:54 You know how much?
28:57 Impact he had on the outcome of the game was probably less than what the stats would say
29:02 Which is kind of a concern because you know you look at that, and you know it's a he's putting up those numbers and
29:10 Against great opponents, but two of them were in losses so I
29:16 Think the test with Woodson is figuring out
29:20 How can you push him to get him to impact kind of the app more more so the outcome of the game than just like?
29:25 You know putting up some of these some of these numbers which look good on paper
29:29 But you know don't necessarily contribute to winning so
29:34 Yeah, I get what you're saying there
29:36 I just I had trouble like putting any of that on color and like that Oregon team was yeah, right
29:41 Oh, no, it's not his fault that you know on his shoulders that they lost to UConn or Michigan
29:47 No, I think I think well like just
29:50 It was a down year for Oregon
29:53 No one looked as good as they probably wanted them to no one probably had as much impact on winning as they wanted them to
29:58 Sometimes those years just happen
30:00 We've speculated could that happen to Indiana in the midst of a transition year like we've speculated like I think they'll probably better than Oregon was
30:07 Last year, but you know that that stuff happens sometimes like it's not it's not possible for that to happen
30:13 Um right so we've hinted at like the idea of how Indiana's Lions are gonna work together with Embargo
30:20 Renault and where in the frontcourt, it'll be
30:23 decently interesting just because
30:26 They all kind of have some overlapping skill sets skill sets in some ways. They're
30:31 None of them are probably just
30:34 Like because you can make the argument that Malik would be best as a five
30:38 I'm not sure that's 100% sure but you can make the argument for that for sure
30:41 I've made the argument a lot that Mackenzie and Bacow is probably best as a four at least in this current state until like his handle
30:46 develops develops more so
30:50 Just how do you think it's all gonna fit together?
30:51 Like obviously we don't get too deep into how Mackenzie's gonna play
30:54 we have a different episode for that, but especially with Cole and
30:58 Renault like
31:01 Just how does that all fit together?
31:02 Do you think it's going to go smoothly or Indiana's really gonna struggle to as the season progresses?
31:06 Yeah, I mean so
31:08 We can dive deeper into Mackenzie and his player preview, but I think a lot of it is going to depend on
31:14 Can he almost?
31:17 Strictly play on the perimeter and you know be able to move quick enough that he's not clogging things
31:24 And yeah, if he's the one who this lineup makes that starting line makes sense if he ties it together, right?
31:30 and I think
31:32 I'll go back to kind of the race
31:34 Comparison not that I'm saying, you know
31:37 Player by player there. So you said the word you said the word race comparison. I was like, whoa
31:42 Whoa, whoa
31:44 Right what I meant by that is
31:51 Can Malik do what Woodson tried to do with the race his?
31:58 Junior and senior year where it's less
32:01 Kind of just posting guys up and bullying in the paint and more
32:07 can you
32:10 Spend you know a decent amount of the possession on the perimeter and still make people respect you there if people
32:17 Don't respect Malik
32:20 you know whether he's standing in the corner or on one of the wings or
32:24 You know setting screens up top if people can just kind of forget about him once he gets above
32:30 the free throw line or
32:32 Deep into the corner like that's going to be a problem and and I think it is a very real possibility that
32:39 you know, Indiana plays the first ten games or so of the season and
32:43 They're trying this lineup of McKenzie and Malik and Kalel and and Woodson just realizes, you know
32:50 The offense can't operate at its most efficient level with the three of them. I think that's a very real possibility
32:56 You know, I think there it is possible that if McKenzie can be a true three and play
33:03 strictly on the perimeter that that it can work, but I am a little skeptical of it and I
33:10 Think if that's the case
33:13 Woodson's is going to have to figure out how to keep all three of them happy with one of them coming off the bench or
33:18 You know, maybe you bring Malik off the bench and you play Kalel, you know last total minutes
33:25 you know, maybe it ends up being a situation like that where like Malik plays closing minutes or
33:32 Kalel plays closing minutes or something like that and
33:35 Maybe the lineup you start with is different than the one that you end with
33:40 But then that also kind of brings in into the equation of like what do you get out of like CJ gun or Gabe cups?
33:46 things like that and that's a whole different conversation, but
33:49 That is kind of the biggest concern, you know, I think perimeter shooting in general is kind of the biggest question mark with this team
33:57 but that also kind of hinges on
34:02 You're starting three guys who are
34:04 Probably more fours or fives than any of them are threes. So
34:10 Well now that we've concluded Jack's race comparison
34:13 No, I so I I was thinking about this and I want to give credit to a good friend of mine
34:21 I know one of the best basketball scouts ever met PD where he wrote this years ago when
34:25 Just on a general scouting philosophy piece
34:28 I believe it was about four is a modern basketball people who play the four position. It's just such a
34:34 hard role in modern basketball because they're basically asked to fix everything that either the five the three the one or the two can't do
34:41 like if the five isn't much of a shooter the four better be able to shoot threes and spot up in space if
34:47 three and the two can't really handle then the four suddenly has to bring the ball up himself a little bit if
34:51 One of the centers isn't great at like screening and rolling like creating a short roll
34:56 that's kind of also his job to you like the four overall on times because like basketballs changed so much over the last few years because
35:03 You know the power forwards used to be a lot of times just posting up on the other block or occasionally stuff like that
35:08 Maybe spotting up like not behind the three-point line, but like in a short corner or anything like that
35:12 But as it's basketballs become more four out one in more five out
35:17 That that four position like what what power forwards did in like the 80s and 90s
35:22 Recently it's like the early 2010s is completely different now and
35:25 Ask him to leak to do that like it is a very difficult job for him
35:29 Like what what Indiana's gonna ask Malik or now to do this year is going to be very difficult
35:33 Not a lot of players could probably do it and it probably doesn't even fit him best
35:37 But he if he doesn't if he does end up shooting well enough handling well enough to kind of cover up some flaws
35:43 Maybe McKenzie still there and Colel still need to develop. That's really good news for Indiana
35:48 So you can just reach those certain thresholds then their line. It makes sense. Then they're gonna be playing pretty well
35:53 I would feel pretty confident a very good team then and
35:56 Time that into Colel like his job as like the very clear nominal center is pretty simple in certain ways
36:04 It's not that it's easy, but it's very clear what his role is
36:06 Like, you know deter shots at the rim on defense be the rim protector
36:09 Keep your hands up turn your very large do all those things in on and then offense probably needs to come a better screener
36:15 Probably needs to become slightly better passer never really gonna be much of a dribbler
36:19 He's not gonna bring that part that trace did but just don't be a hindrance to the offense and finish
36:25 It'd be a good play finisher for them and you can probably very good good
36:28 So I think like if I was giving projections for them
36:30 there's a very good chance that Colel looks better this year like looks like the better player and
36:36 He might act he might overall actually be the better player like in terms of stats in terms of production all those things
36:42 But if they have a good season, I think you can make a very clear argument that
36:47 Colel's better player but Malik ends up being like quote-unquote more valuable just because his role is such a specific one
36:53 It's such a hard one to fill like
36:55 That I don't know who else could do it
36:57 Except maybe the only one would be if Malik got benched
37:01 They started another way or a guard and move McKenzie and Baco to the floor. That's probably the only way it could happen
37:06 but
37:07 If not, like if it they keep that same starting lineup a whole year and they're pretty good
37:12 I think it's because Malik really took the steps they needed to which would be
37:15 Valuable to the team just like they wouldn't it probably allows everyone to thrive as best they can and it's just it's a lot to ask
37:22 Them but if he steps up to the plate and they should be looking really good. Yeah, and I do think it's worth noting that
37:27 You know Woodson might recognize that
37:32 Playing the three of them together
37:34 Might not be best for off for the offense
37:40 But you know Woodson at at his very core has always said
37:45 You know, we need to be a strong defensive team first
37:50 And make that the backbone and I think he said it was in it
37:55 I think it was an interview with with John Fanta the Fox Sports guy
37:59 He talked about how he thinks that Indiana has more defensive
38:03 versatility this year than it has in the past Woodson said that and
38:08 I I think when you have you know
38:11 Just think of the length with with him Baco and renew and where if you have those three guys
38:15 That will make a good accent with accent rates. You just those are not small guard
38:20 Yeah, not even mentioning those guys and that's potentially like I don't know how many that that's I
38:26 There's a size. Good their size is gonna wear on people. I think yeah, they're defensively just like it's so hard when everyone's that big
38:34 It's like there's there's no weak spot probably to attack their thinking like where do we go to like score points?
38:39 I don't see one in that sort of lineup really, right?
38:42 So if you have a lineup of accent ray who I think right now are probably the best
38:48 Defensive guard duo in the big town. I think that's fair to say you don't you don't think it's
38:52 All the respect them they had great freshman years Purdue will be awesome, but
39:01 No, I don't you didn't have to say that
39:03 Defensively there there, you know accent ray I think will yeah, we saw it last year even Jalen and Trey ate them up and
39:14 You know, I when you I think Woodson sees
39:18 accent ray
39:21 amazing defensive guard duo and then the length of him Baco renew where I
39:25 Think if he can trot out that defensive unit
39:29 I think he might be willing to give a little bit away in terms of like offensive efficiency or
39:37 You know
39:38 He he might opt towards that
39:41 Then trying to put together, you know, the most potent
39:45 offensive lineup, you know because
39:48 You know, he he probably has the same concerns of spacing unless you know
39:53 McKenzie and renew all of a sudden this offseason have shown that they can you know
39:58 handle kind of the roles that you were talking about on the perimeter so well, but
40:02 I think
40:04 Defensively, that's where kind of the Malik and Colelle thing can can work. Well
40:09 obviously Malik will have to stay out of foul trouble, but
40:12 I
40:14 Think Woodson sees, you know that potential defensively and that's what he wants, Indiana to be at its core. So
40:21 If these teams are as defensively slanted as we think they're gonna be we could be in store for like a 50 to 44
40:27 Indiana Rutgers game like yeah, one of the worst things you've ever seen
40:30 It's very much on the table. I mean, that's like what it was like the game at Rutgers last year was like
40:36 53 48 or something like that. It could be a little bit off but it was
40:41 Indiana's no stranger to that in recent years, especially with the pack line with our we don't yeah
40:48 Yeah
40:50 Well now I think that we're gonna have only one more player to preview from what we think is gonna be a really good defensive
40:56 Starting lineup in McKenzie and Baco probably will get around to the next week
40:59 But I think that's gonna wrap it up for us today talking about Malik and Colelle and obviously next week will be breath
41:05 I mean, maybe some of you find it unfortunate because the Indiana football season is not growing going great
41:10 But we will be back to talk about the Indiana football season next week. They're on by obviously the Saturday
41:15 You should heck most of you are probably listening to this on Saturday morning
41:18 So, you know, they're not playing today, but they'll be back against, Michigan
41:22 We'll have stuff to preview for that and we'll have the McKenzie and Baco preview for you guys next week
41:27 It won't some more player previews probably grouping some of the bench players together in the future to just move through
41:32 Move through things geez
41:34 But thank you all so much for listening to us today
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