Israel forms war cabinet as Gaza runs out of fuel, power, food
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00:00 and his political rival Benny Gantz announced that they would form an emergency government
00:05 to handle this crisis. Meanwhile, in the communities along the border with Gaza, the grim task
00:10 of retrieving bodies continues after the attack by Hamas, which is a prescribed terrorist
00:16 group in the UK. Our foreign affairs correspondent, Sukandar Kamani, has been to Be'eri, where
00:21 one of the worst massacres occurred, and his report does contain distressing images.
00:26 Burnt out, abandoned cars by the roadside, all that's left of a mass killing at a music
00:33 festival. We're following the Israeli army, heading into another devastated village. This
00:42 is the Kibbutz Be'eri. It's one of the worst affected small communities here along the
00:53 border with Gaza. More than 100 bodies, more than 100 Israeli civilians killed here. The
01:00 bodies of the attackers still lie on the ground. The vehicles they used still here too. They're
01:07 powerful machine guns trained on ordinary families. More than 200 terrorists, hundreds
01:14 of them killed in the Kibbutz. But you know, it's not a war, it's not a battlefield, it's
01:22 a massacre. Inside a home in the nearby town of Ofakim, bullet holes and blood stains are
01:29 everywhere. David and his wife were held hostage for 18 hours by five Hamas militants. They
01:36 said in the morning, "We will put a bullet in your head." But at 2.30 the military came.
01:47 We hid there and here was a gunfight, shots, bullets, grenades. How we came out of this
01:54 alive I don't know. CCTV cameras captured gunmen marauding around the neighbourhood
02:01 and opening fire. Inside their home, David's wife Raquel tried to talk them down. I told
02:17 them, "We're brothers. Why are you doing this? We should make peace." He said, "We're not
02:23 brothers. I'm a martyr." And he put a gun to my husband's head. It was terrifying. Hamas
02:30 had brutally gunned down hundreds of ordinary Israelis. But at times here it was also surreal.
02:36 Like when the militants demanded food and a neighbour dropped off chicken and rice.
02:44 They gave them Coke Zero and they said, "No, we want Diet Coke." He asked me, "Do you know
02:49 this famous Israeli singer?" And I said, "Yes." He started singing. My wife sang with him.
02:54 We sang together and suddenly their minds changed. You met these people responsible
03:00 for such horrific violence. What did you think of them? Are they monsters or who are they?
03:08 They are terrorists who came to kill us, but I turned it around, offered them food and
03:15 drink, treated their wounds as if they were my guests.
03:21 Israel is a country in mourning. More Israelis were killed here on Saturday than throughout
03:26 the whole of the long and bloody second Intifada. This is also a country that wants revenge.
03:36 In the distance, plumes of smoke from the bombardment of Gaza.
03:43 Britain's Foreign Secretary was today in on Fakim to show his solidarity with the victims
03:49 of the Hamas attack.
03:56 Horrific horrific scenes here. Also grim scenes in Gaza. I wonder, do you have any concerns
04:02 about the nature and scale of the Israeli response to this awful attack? Many people
04:08 do across the world.
04:09 Well, I've said back when I was in the UK that of course Israel has a right to self-defence
04:15 and of course Israel has a right to try and regain those people who have been kidnapped.
04:22 When I was in Israel a few weeks ago, of course we discussed the security situation, we discussed
04:28 Israel's work to minimise civilian casualties, but of course what we do know is that Hamas
04:35 habitually embeds its military capabilities, its terrorist capabilities within civilian
04:44 populations. What we want to see is as few casualties as possible.
04:51 Is that happening? Hundreds of children have died, there's a blockade on fuel.
04:56 We actually lost 1,200 people that were murdered. Young people in the dancing party that they
05:03 were shooting. Entire families that were murdered, one by one. Innocent people. We are living
05:20 close to monsters, to inhuman people. And we are fighting for our home and we will win.
05:27 Thank you. We will continue.
05:32 Back in Beri, there's now a huge military presence. Many of the soldiers here will likely
05:38 soon head to Gaza. Some will die, many more Palestinians will too. But as the Israelis
05:45 see it, this attack leaves them no choice.
05:49 Well today, as you've been hearing, Israel has formed a wartime unity government, bringing
05:55 in some senior opposition figures, somewhat sidelining some of the most extreme right-wing
06:00 figures within the ruling coalition. For many years now in Israel, it's become increasingly
06:05 difficult to have a real conversation about negotiations with the Palestinians, about
06:10 addressing some of their grievances. And in light of this horrific attack, which has left
06:15 Israel with really a sense of collective trauma, it's going to be even more difficult. There's
06:21 very little public appetite for talk of peace. In the past, Israel has referred to its frequent
06:28 smaller scale flare-ups with Hamas in Gaza, sometimes in retaliation for rockets being
06:33 fired out from there, as mowing the lawn. Airstrikes, that's a reference to airstrikes
06:39 that they would carry out, targeting Hamas's military capabilities, mowing the lawn, meaning
06:44 something they would have to do every now and again. But now the conversation is very
06:48 different. It's about eliminating the threat from Hamas. We'll have to see if that's possible
06:54 and what the price of it will be.
06:57 Sir Kander, thanks very much indeed. Well this afternoon, the electricity went off in
07:02 Gaza when the only power station ran out of fuel as the Israeli total siege began to bite.
07:09 And meanwhile, the aerial bombardment of the Gaza Strip has continued unabated, with over
07:14 a thousand casualties, most of them civilians. Well, some of the hospitals there have been
07:18 turned into shelters for the desperate civilians who've been kicked out of their homes, who've
07:23 had to flee their homes, and are trying to find any place to shelter. Our international
07:28 editor, Lindsay Hilsum, now reports. And beware, there are also distressing images in her report.
07:37 The ambulance sirens never stop, nor the desperate attempt to save those who might survive the
07:44 relentless Israeli bombardment of Khan Younis camp in Gaza. Adrenaline keeps them running,
07:51 keeps them trying to rescue anyone they can. The children, of course. The children more
08:00 than anyone. Don't be scared, he tells his daughters, don't be scared. The Israelis say
08:07 they're not targeting civilians. But where should civilians go? Yes, there might have
08:18 been Hamas fighters hiding here, there probably were. But the destruction is total. The bombs
08:25 do not discriminate. And Israeli hostages are under this bombardment too. We don't know
08:32 where they're being held. They've run out of room for patients at Al Shifa Hospital.
08:39 But of course they'll take more, because there's no choice. Only a little fuel is left for
08:45 the generator, and Israel has blocked resupply. Medicines, dressings, everything is running
08:52 low. The children are mute with shock. All whimpering in pain and terror. Outside the
08:59 hospital, amongst the bodies, Alaa Al Kafaneh, alone now. He has lost his pregnant wife,
09:16 father, brother, uncle, two cousins, and two members of his extended family. We received
09:23 a message to leave Beit Hanoun town, so we went to beach refugee camp. They had threatened
09:30 the building we were in, so we're looking for safety in the beach camp, but the building
09:34 we were in was also threatened. So we had to move to Sheikh Radwan town, where we stayed
09:39 in an apartment. Suddenly, around 4am, a strike hit us. We don't know why. We've done nothing.
09:47 Terror from the skies. Scanes of white smoke that fall in an arc. Without tests on the
09:54 ground, experts can't confirm that this is the incendiary weapon white phosphorus. And
10:06 the Israelis deny they're using it. But they have done in the past. Contact with water
10:14 doesn't quench the heat, and if launched into populated areas, it would give people horrendous
10:20 burns. It's hard to imagine how anything could be left in the ruins. But if you have almost
10:27 nothing, you retrieve what you can. And you think, who to blame? Hamas? The Israelis?
10:38 The terrorists that pay only lip service to the lives of Palestinians? We don't blame
10:44 the Jews. We blame the corrupt Arab regimes from the Gulf to the ocean. The Arab regimes
10:50 are all corrupt. The Palestinian people are steadfast on their land. No matter how long
10:55 it takes, we must return to our country. Gazans gather in a UN school, hoping to be safe for
11:04 the night. And the children, for a moment, play. As all children, Palestinian or Israeli,
11:11 should be allowed to do. Lindsay Hilson reporting. And joining me now is Mark Gregev, the former
11:19 Israeli ambassador to the UK, who is once again serving as an advisor to the Prime Minister
11:24 here, Benjamin Netanyahu. Mr. Gregev, thank you very much for coming on the programme
11:28 and taking time to do so. Is the formation of this unity government, this war cabinet,
11:34 a clear sign that an incursion by Israeli troops into the Gaza Strip is imminent? Well,
11:41 I think you should see the formation of the new national unity government. And it's still
11:48 possible that more members of the opposition will join the new coalition, because it is
11:53 a time when national unity is required. You'll recall, and you've done reports about this,
11:59 that Israeli politics has, over the last few months, been very polarised, very candankerous.
12:05 And I think if we can say anything good about all the horror that we've been through over
12:09 the last few days, is that I think maybe it was a slap in the face for Israelis that we
12:13 have to understand what divides us. And we have very robust political debates in this
12:20 country, but ultimately, the threats out there, they don't care who you vote for, they don't
12:23 care if you're left or right or centre, they want to kill us. And we should unite in meeting
12:29 this common threat. Right. I've spoken to lots of Israelis, including those who've got
12:36 hostages in the Gaza Strip. They are furious with your Prime Minister. They think that
12:40 he took his eye off the ball before the attacks on Saturday. He was far too concerned about
12:45 saving his own political skin to live up to his former name of Mr Security. And also,
12:51 he's been pretty invisible, frankly, in the last few days. What do you say to those criticisms?
12:57 Well, you know, Israelis are free to criticise. We are an open and democratic country. But
13:07 I think if you actually looked at the polling, you'd see there really is strong support for
13:12 a national unity government. And I think Israelis understand that this is a time for them to
13:18 be together and to unify to meet the common threats. Obviously, mistakes were made. I
13:23 mean, us Israelis, we've always prided ourselves on having a very excellent intelligence service.
13:29 And here we were taken by surprise. And there are allegations that the army wasn't quick
13:33 enough in its initial response. That has to be looked into. That will be investigated.
13:37 We have to see what lessons need to be learned. Let's look at Israel's actions in the Gaza
13:44 Strip. The bombing of mosques, of apartment blocks, the killing of civilians, despite
13:52 the understandable anger of what happened in your country on Saturday morning because
13:56 of Hamas. That does look to many people like collective revenge.
14:05 I believe it's crucial that Israel respond forcibly, not only because what happened to
14:12 us was unacceptable and Hamas has to understand that we will no longer live side by side with
14:18 a terrorist organization that tries to butcher our people. But Israel has other enemies in
14:22 the region, from Hezbollah in Lebanon to Iran just over the horizon. And they have to understand
14:28 that if you strike against Israel, if you murder our people, you will pay a price. We
14:34 live in a very dangerous neighborhood. And Israel has to be strong. And Israel, while
14:39 holding one hand out for peace, and we do want peace, but if you attack us, you will
14:44 pay a price. And that's a crucial message for us to send.
14:49 But why should children pay a price? Why should pregnant mothers pay a price? I mean, the
14:55 danger here is that you're just going to continue the cycle of violence that has defined politics
15:00 in this part of the world for so long.
15:06 I beg to disagree. I think your analysis is incorrect. Hamas is the enemy of peace and
15:13 reconciliation. Hamas says openly they're against Israel in any borders. Hamas says
15:18 openly we will kill every Jew we can find, and they showed that very clearly on Saturday
15:23 morning. Hamas says openly that any Arab who signs a peace treaty with Israel is a traitor
15:27 to Islam and to the Arab cause. Actually, by defeating Hamas, we're making, I think,
15:33 creating an opportunity, a space for peace to happen.
15:39 But you're not just defeating Hamas. You're also killing many innocent civilians. It sounds,
15:44 it looks very Old Testament, an eye for an eye.
15:50 Look, I think in fairness, there hasn't been a conflict in modern history where you haven't
15:58 seen civilian casualties. And we regret civilian casualties. But the idea that because Hamas
16:06 has taken over Gaza and has turned it into a base of terror to launch attacks against
16:10 our people, that we can't defend ourselves, that's ridiculous.
16:17 And just very briefly, if you do go into the Gaza Strip, if you take over, who's going
16:22 to run the place? Because the last time you ran it, you decided it didn't work out for
16:26 either you or them and you had to get out.
16:34 That's the whole point that I think has to be said, that why Hamas doesn't want peace.
16:37 People forget that in 2005, Israel pulled out of the Gaza Strip. We took down all the
16:42 settlements and we pulled back to the 1967 lines.
16:47 And so according to the theory that is often espoused in university campuses and in all
16:53 sorts of places, if we go to the '67 lines and take down the settlements, we're supposed
16:57 to get peace, are we not? What have we received in return? What have we received in return?
17:02 Ruthless, barbaric violence.
17:05 OK, got to leave it there. Mark Greger, thank you very much indeed. Well, earlier, I talked
17:11 to Amjad Shauer in Gaza. He's director of the Palestinian non-governmental organizations
17:17 in the Gaza Strip, and I asked him to describe the situation today.
17:24 It's a very horrible situation that we are in now. Just now, I heard of the bombardment
17:29 of the Palestinian Red Crescent Society, which is responsible for saving the lives. It's
17:36 the biggest hospital in Gaza. There is three medical teams were killed while they're in
17:44 their ambulance. It's very catastrophic conditions we are in. I evacuated my home after warning
17:51 one of the buildings in the neighborhood. I couldn't imagine that one day that I leave
17:56 with my family in such conditions. We are living second by second, minute by minute.
18:01 And we count, we are counting these minutes.
18:04 So without electricity, without water, without fuel, without Internet, without telephones,
18:10 what life is there left in Gaza?
18:13 I'm someone who catch the hope all the time. I'm working for NGOs and all the time I'm
18:20 telling the people in Gaza there is some hope in the end of the tunnel. And it looks there
18:25 is no tunnel, no hope in such conditions that we are in. It's something difficult that we
18:30 are passing through.
18:32 It's been suggested by the Israeli government that you should leave. And some have said
18:37 that you should go to Egypt. Are you afraid that they're trying to basically push you
18:41 out of the Gaza Strip altogether?
18:43 I have to tell the Israelis and everyone that we will not leave. We will stay. And this
18:49 is when I evacuated my home, I was obliged because I have my elder brother with me. So
18:56 we moved back and came back to our homes. We will never ever moved from our Gaza. This
19:02 is Gaza. This is our homeland. And we will not leave Gaza. And we'll catch on that someone
19:12 will act immediately to stop such craziness, to stop these airstrikes. And there is no
19:21 distinguish between civilians all under attack.
19:24 Amjad Chawla, thank you very much indeed. And good luck to you and your family.
19:28 Thank you.
19:29 Now, in recent times, it's been the violent confrontations between Israeli settlers and
19:36 Palestinians in the West Bank, not Gaza, that has occupied the headlines. Now the West Bank,
19:41 just around the corner from here, is playing host to Gazans expelled from Israel, destitute
19:46 and desperate about the safety of their families back in the Gaza Strip.
19:52 Pink candy floss on the streets of Ramallah. The West Bank feels like a parallel universe
19:57 today. While Jerusalem is deserted and Gaza is being reduced to rubble, here the streets
20:02 are brimmed with activity. But any normality is a fool's gold, and there is no escape from
20:08 the gathering storm.
20:10 A nearby school has been turned into a refugee camp for hundreds of Palestinian laborers
20:16 from Gaza who have been kicked out by the Israelis, perhaps because they're seen as
20:21 a potential threat. First, the frantic paperwork of lost documents. This is the Palestinian
20:27 condition, endless bureaucracy without a state they can call their own. And then a life of
20:34 limbo facing an uncertain future.
20:37 For now, they have no idea how to get back to their families in Gaza or indeed what state
20:42 they're in.
20:43 The air strikes in Gaza is very terrible and in everywhere.
20:50 You're worried about them?
20:52 Yes, I worry.
20:57 I don't know. It's difficult to reach our houses because of the bombing. We can't send
21:04 anybody to check. It's been demolished. If you know someone who can help, please.
21:11 Ehab Besaiso has a PhD from Cardiff University and is trying to help out.
21:16 From this spot here in Ramallah, they have arrived in a very miserable condition. Some
21:20 people, they have lost their mobiles, even their clothes and bags and ID cards, everything.
21:27 So we had to deal with really a humanitarian issue.
21:30 And their families are stuck in the Gaza Strip under bombardment.
21:33 One of them actually, he was in a very difficult situation last night because he was, he heard
21:41 that his family, they are all, they've been killed in the bombardment.
21:45 Driving past the scorched murals of Yasser Arafat, the founding father of this stillborn
21:50 nation, we head in search of moderation, a very rare commodity these days.
21:55 Dr. Mustafa Bagouti used to work in the Palestinian government and now advises anyone who will
22:02 listen.
22:03 At this very moment, Israel imposed a total blockade on 2.2 million civilians in Gaza.
22:09 They have taken 2.2 million people hostages to Israel.
22:13 They're depriving them from food, from water, from electricity and from medicine.
22:18 The second thing that is happening is airstrikes.
22:21 Airstrikes are vicious.
22:23 They don't care.
22:24 And the third plan, which is very clear, and Netanyahu said it, he said all people in Gaza
22:30 must leave their homes.
22:31 Where should they go to?
22:33 To the sea?
22:34 And then his spokesperson made it clear, the military spokesperson, who said that all people
22:39 in Gaza must leave to Egypt.
22:43 That means that the real Israeli plan is really to ethnically cleanse 2.2 million people in
22:48 Gaza and then not bring them back but annex it to Israel.
22:53 Because that's exactly the map that Netanyahu showed in the United Nations.
22:58 A map of Israel annexing West Bank.
23:00 Is that actually a plan or is that you being paranoid?
23:04 I'm not paranoid.
23:05 You can look at the map that he showed in the United Nations.
23:07 I didn't invent that.
23:09 And you can see the statements that he made.
23:12 He said he will change the map of the region for 50 years to come.
23:16 The international community, whether it's in Washington or in London or in Berlin or
23:20 in Brussels, still talks about a two-state solution.
23:23 They still hold on to this.
23:26 But surely that idea is dead now.
23:28 It's not only Israeli responsibility.
23:30 It is also the responsibility of the United States.
23:33 And also Hamas.
23:34 Hamas doesn't believe in a two-state solution.
23:36 It doesn't believe it has the right to exist.
23:38 No, they would accept a two-state solution.
23:40 I know that's not what they're saying.
23:42 I know.
23:43 I've talked to them so many times.
23:46 The Palestinians would have accepted a two-state solution.
23:49 But Israel now killed it.
23:51 Killed that option with all these settlements.
23:54 You're talking about 750,000 settlers now in the West Bank.
23:58 Can they remove them?
23:59 So the question is, if two-state solution is dead, and one apartheid state is unacceptable,
24:07 I hope, to humanity, then what's the solution?
24:09 The only solution, and maybe it sounds strange now under the circumstances, but I believe,
24:15 I am a person of nonviolence, I believe the only solution is one democratic state where
24:21 we can all live together with equal rights.
24:25 The Israeli settlements may look like innocuous gated communities, but they're illegal, defended
24:30 by the Israeli army, growing in number, and they're the fuse which could blow up the West
24:35 Bank.
24:39 President Joe Biden has today reaffirmed his commitment to Israel, saying once again that
24:43 the United States has Israel's back.
24:46 His words come as the US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, prepares to pay a visit to
24:50 Israel, promising to ensure that the country is fully prepared and equipped by the United
24:55 States to handle any threat.
24:59 Washington correspondent Siobhan Kennedy joins us now from the White House.
25:02 Siobhan.
25:03 Can't be there.
25:04 Well, Matt, I've just left the White House briefing where John Kirby, the National Security
25:10 Council spokesman, gave an update on the numbers of Americans who died in those attacks.
25:15 That number is now 22, while 17, he said, 17 remain missing.
25:21 Some of them presumed to have been taken hostage.
25:24 The US, he said, is working around the clock to try and secure their release.
25:29 John Kirby also received questions about comments from the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee,
25:34 the Republican Michael McCaul, who earlier caused something of a stir when he appeared
25:40 to confirm that the US knew that Egypt had warned Israel days before the attack.
25:48 Now, Prime Minister Netanyahu has always denied receiving that warning.
25:53 But just listen to how Mr McCaul told reporters about that today.
25:57 Hear what he said.
25:59 This is an act of terror.
26:00 It cannot stand.
26:02 We heard from the administration.
26:04 There seems to have been a failure of intelligence as well.
26:08 We're not quite sure how we missed it.
26:10 I'm not quite sure how Israel missed it.
26:12 We know that Egypt had warned the Israelis three days prior that an event like this could
26:19 happen.
26:20 Well, John Kirby was asked about those comments today, and he said, I cannot speak to specific
26:27 intelligence matters.
26:29 Now is not the time, he said.
26:30 A time will come where we look back and see if there were any intelligence gaps.
26:35 But now is not that moment.
26:38 On the idea that the US is working to secure a safe passage out of Gaza, we were promised
26:44 some update on that.
26:45 Essentially, there isn't one today.
26:47 He said that those discussions were still actively ongoing between the US and Egypt
26:53 and Israel.
26:54 We support the idea, he said, of a safe passage.
26:57 And civilians are protected by the laws of armed combat.
27:01 No one, he said, wants to see any innocent lives lost.
27:06 Shavon Kennedy, thank you very much indeed there in Washington.
27:10 Well, the Hamas offensive on Saturday may have taken Israel by surprise, but it seems
27:15 the entire operation was a carefully planned attack, and one that Hamas documented on video.
27:21 Kieran Moodley has been looking in detail at how Hamas foiled a multi-billion pound
27:26 security system, allowing them to attack civilian areas like the Debiri kibbutz we heard about
27:31 earlier in the program.
27:33 And you may find some of the images in this report distressing.
27:42 Israel's iron wall was meant to protect its people and keep these Hamas militants out.
27:47 Instead, Israelis were left virtually defenceless as gunmen broke through the fence and swept
27:53 into towns like here in Kibbutz Berri, where after hours in control, a tenth of its population
28:00 in body bags.
28:04 This is the story of how terror came here and why Israel's security system failed.
28:11 The Berri kibbutz is less than three miles from the border with Gaza, a strip of land
28:15 often described as an open air prison.
28:18 The entire area is surrounded by Israeli controlled border fencing, more than 30 miles long, with
28:23 the main crossing Erez in the north.
28:26 In 2021, a major $1 billion upgrade was unveiled, with the wall bolstered by motion sensors,
28:32 surveillance cameras, remote controlled machine guns, all linked by cellular communications
28:37 towers like the one seen here on the right.
28:41 Israel's intelligence reportedly believed this iron wall had the Hamas threat contained,
28:46 with tech replacing the need for so many boots on the ground patrolling the area.
28:51 But the attack on Saturday revealed fatal weaknesses at the heart of the system.
28:57 At dawn, thousands of rockets were fired from Gaza and militants flew over in paragliders.
29:06 Around the same time, drones armed with small bombs attacked the cell towers and targeted
29:11 remote controlled guns.
29:14 The cellular signal knocked out, Israel was reportedly blind to the scale of the attack.
29:24 Fighters then blew sections of the fence across the border, allowing motorbikes, trucks and
29:29 bulldozers to pull through.
29:37 At the Erez crossing into Israel, militants seized control of the building, killing and
29:42 capturing Israeli soldiers.
29:44 Video posted by Hamas appears to show they encountered little resistance.
29:50 It's reported a significant number of Israeli troops had recently been redirected to the
29:54 occupied West Bank.
29:56 And that's despite a senior American politician today saying that both US and Israeli intelligence
30:02 failed to take note of a warning from Egypt about a possible attack just three days before
30:08 this onslaught.
30:10 The IDF says the fence was breached at around 30 locations.
30:14 Militants reached this highway from multiple directions and then towns and military sites
30:18 along the road saw some of the deadliest attacks of the day.
30:22 From Sderot in the north, down to the headquarters of the IDF's Gaza division.
30:28 Rimkabut and the Supernova festival, where at least 260 people were gunned down.
30:34 And then Berikabut, where more than 100 civilians were slaughtered.
30:37 And it started with two militants approaching this gate at around 7am.
30:43 The clock says 5.55.
30:45 It appears to be an hour behind.
30:47 The gunmen can't get in.
30:49 They hide and wait.
30:51 A car approaches and the gate begins to open.
30:56 The militants begin to shoot.
30:59 Three killed inside.
31:01 The car still rolls forward.
31:03 Hamas are now in the compound.
31:07 An hour later they return to their first victims.
31:10 They drag one of the bodies out, ransack their belongings.
31:15 Two hours more, the other occupants are dragged out too.
31:19 And the car is driven away.
31:22 Even half an hour later, apparently still no Israeli presence, neither police nor soldiers.
31:28 Instead two Hamas individuals arrive and take one of the bodies.
31:32 When we went into Kibbutz Be'eri and we saw what was done to the families, to the children.
31:45 I'm 33 years in this position.
31:49 I thought I saw everything but something like that I never saw.
31:56 All this savagery, so anarchic yet coordinated.
32:00 Like this roadblock set up by the militants.
32:03 All allowed to unfold over several hours.
32:06 The death toll now above 1200.
32:13 In Jerusalem they've begun burying the soldiers who were outnumbered and killed by the Hamas
32:18 attack.
32:19 Here on Mount Herzl, named after the writer who envisioned a Jewish state and wrote that
32:24 we shall live at last as free men and in our own homes peacefully die.
32:30 Words now shaken and shattered.
32:32 A nation forever changed.
32:36 Kiran Mudli reporting.
32:38 Let's talk now to Yossi Alfa.
32:39 He's previously been a Mossad agent and an intelligence officer for the Israeli Defense
32:44 Force.
32:45 He now lives in Tel Aviv where he works as a writer.
32:48 Welcome to the program, sir.
32:51 Just first of all, in terms of the planning of this operation, which we just heard Kiran
32:56 Mudli describe in some detail, how much do you think Hamas planned this with the help
33:02 of an outside power like Iran?
33:06 First of all, no excuses.
33:08 This is a Hamas operation planned and carried out by Hamas people.
33:13 But clearly Iran had input.
33:16 What input precisely?
33:19 Weapons and ordnance without a doubt.
33:21 Know-how with regard to weapons.
33:25 Consultations, intense consultations in recent months in Beirut with Hamas representatives,
33:33 Iranians, and Hezbollah leaders to talk about the modalities of this operation and the timing.
33:40 Indeed, the model for the operation appears to have been borrowed by Hamas from Hezbollah
33:46 because Hezbollah has long been planning to carry out precisely such an operation on our
33:52 northern border.
33:54 Right.
33:56 And however meticulously this operation was planned and whoever helped to plan it is the
34:01 key point here that the Israeli Defense Forces and Mossad, you know, your former employers,
34:07 took their eye off the ball.
34:09 They made some mistakes that allowed this to occur.
34:12 Look, the Mossad deals with intelligence abroad and abroad does not include the Gaza
34:18 Strip.
34:19 Responsibility for intelligence, early warning, and other intelligence of the Gaza Strip is
34:24 the Shin Bet, the domestic intelligence service.
34:28 So stop blaming the Mossad.
34:30 It cannot take the rap this time.
34:33 But clearly military intelligence and the Shin Bet, yes, took their eye off the ball.
34:42 They missed this.
34:43 They already acknowledge it.
34:45 It's clear that it's going to have to be investigated intensely once this once the smoke has cleared,
34:52 because this is a massive intelligence early warning failure.
34:58 And given the nature of this failure and actually the damage to Israel's reputation around the
35:04 world and the reputations of its forces, how much does that change Israel's security in
35:10 the future?
35:12 The damage, I wouldn't define it as damage to Israel's reputation.
35:17 It's damage to Israel's deterrent profile.
35:20 OK, something that's going to encourage, conceivably, encourage others to attack us.
35:27 And here we have to go back and recognize that that deterrent profile has been weakened
35:32 over the past nine months by the actions of the Netanyahu government in dismantling our
35:38 judicial branch and by the protests within Israel, which affected the security community
35:43 as well.
35:45 Now you have an attack like Saturday's attack, which weakens the deterrent profile even further
35:51 because the army was incapable of protecting Israeli thousands of Israeli civilians.
35:57 One of the goals of the operation we're about to undertake in Gaza is to restore that deterrent
36:05 profile and it's a vital goal before others like Hezbollah and Iran are encouraged to
36:11 attack us.
36:13 Right.
36:15 And briefly on that Gaza incursion, if and when it takes place, is that a bad idea?
36:20 Is that luring Israel further into a trap?
36:24 Conceivably, there's a lot of concern about that.
36:27 We don't know what the operational plan is and we won't know until it's being carried
36:32 out.
36:33 I'm pretty confident that the security planners, and now we have a small unity cabinet with
36:43 some pretty smart people in it to control this operation.
36:51 This is one concern without a doubt.
36:54 Not only not to fall into a trap in Gaza, but not to fall into one which gives a rationale
37:01 for Hezbollah to intervene in the north.
37:04 So this has to be done carefully.
37:06 But on the other hand, if you don't take out the Hamas leadership, you are not restoring
37:12 Israeli deterrence.
37:14 You are not restoring security to this part of Israel.
37:18 OK, going to have to leave it there.
37:21 Yossi Alfer, thank you very much indeed.