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(Current Affairs)

Host:
- Khawar Ghumman - Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain

Guests:
- Hassan Ayub Khan (Analyst)
- Seyed Mohammad Ali

What’s happening on Israel-Hamas Conflict? - Latest Updates

Nawaz Sharif Ko Jail Jane Say Kesay Bachaya Jaye? -PMLN in Action

Six thousands bomb dropped in Palestine, Death toll rises


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Transcript
00:00 Assalamu Alaikum, welcome to the program. Over the weekend, you saw that the government gave a big relief on petrol prices.
00:20 Now, the government is giving a relief on petrol prices and diesel prices. Will the government give the same relief or more? We will talk about this in the program.
00:32 Obviously, there is a big story in Pakistan. The political situation is developing. Nawaz Sharif's return, the people's party's spending, whether they are getting a deal or not, we will talk about that.
00:50 There is only one thing happening in Pakistan, whether it is international media or local media, that the world is silent on the oppression and barbarism being done by the Israeli forces in Gaza.
01:06 Why is the reaction not being forceful? Why are we seeing that the international humanitarian organizations and big countries that talk about peace in the world are also just doing it.
01:22 No forceful response is being taken to this issue as it should be. The reports we have so far, especially from the WHO, are showing that about 3000 Palestinians have been martyred.
01:37 More than 1000 children are among them. And about 48 health centers have been targeted. More than 10 lakh people are homeless.
01:52 Electricity, water and other daily necessities are not available to people there at the moment. Will the world remain silent on this? Will the Israelis continue to oppress there?
02:09 Will there be any action taken against this? We saw an interview given by the US President in a program. What is he talking about? Is the US talking to the Saudis?
02:28 Is the US talking to the Saudis? Is the US talking to the Saudis? Is the US talking to the Saudis? Is the US talking to the Saudis?
02:42 Are you asking Israel to establish a humanitarian corridor in that area or get humanitarian supplies?
02:50 Our team is talking to them about that and whether there could be a safe zone. We're also talking with the Egyptians, whether there is an outlet to get these children and women out of that area at this moment. But it's hard.
03:13 Biden is saying that we are talking to Israel. And of course, Egypt has a long border with Gaza, which is under siege at the moment. So we are talking to them so that this humanitarian corridor can be talked about and facilitated.
03:33 But it seems that this is not being talked about in the way it should be. And this will be a difficult phase, especially for the Americans. Because we have seen that they always talk, but they do not act on it on the ground.
03:50 Then another question was asked to the US President, that the Israelis are fighting there, are they acting on international law or should they be?
04:04 You would like to see a humanitarian corridor that allows some of the two million Gazans out of the area? Yes. You would like to see humanitarian supplies brought into Gaza? Yes. So you do not agree with the Israeli total siege of the Gaza Strip?
04:23 I'm confident that Israel is going to act under the major, the rules of war. There are standards that democratic institutions and countries will go by. And so I'm confident that there's going to be an ability for the innocents in Gaza to be able to have access to medicine and food and water.
04:48 One thing that they are accepting, the US President, is that there is a war going on there. Is there really a war? Where is Hamas? Where is Israel? The big powers behind Israel, especially America, are there.
05:02 So according to international law, can we call this a war? Along with what the US President is saying, that we do not want there to be a siege in the way Israel is doing.
05:15 Would you support the Israeli occupation of Gaza at this point?
05:40 I think it would be a big mistake. Look, what happened in Gaza, in my view, is Hamas and the extreme elements of Hamas don't represent all the Palestinian people.
05:53 And I think that it would be a mistake for Israel to occupy Gaza again. But going in and taking out the extremists, the Hezbollah, is up north, but Hamas down south is a necessary requirement.
06:18 The US President is answering this question by saying that the Israeli forces should go to Gaza, do ground operations, and finish Hamas on the ground.
06:31 And then we can talk about the further settlement. Are you allowing this occupation? Things are a bit unclear.
06:41 Syed Muhammad Ali is with us, he is a security analyst. We will get to know him. Chaudhry Ghulam Sahin, welcome to the show.
06:49 And Hassan Ayub is meeting you after two weeks. A lot of people were asking me if you left the airways.
06:57 I was telling them that I am here, on leave, and I have family commitments, and I am Hassan Ayub, how can I leave Chaudhry Ghulam Sahin?
07:05 Thank you very much, Muhammad Ali. Sir, tell us, on an international level, the way things are moving forward, we are seeing that efforts are being made,
07:17 obviously, the Americans are driving this movement, how to move forward with this issue. Are you seeing a peaceful solution, or the Israeli Prime Minister is saying that more is coming,
07:32 and the way he is gathering all his forces on the Gaza border, it seems that it is very imminent that in the coming days he will also dissolve the ground,
07:42 and whatever is left, what we are seeing, there is nothing left. So, what are you seeing in the coming days, how is this conflict developing?
07:55 Thank you very much, you have helped me today. Look, there are two ways of looking at this conflict.
08:04 One way is that we see what the human condition is there, which is very bad, and is getting worse every day.
08:14 Approximately 2750 Palestinians have been martyred, and about a quarter of the population has been displaced within a week.
08:27 They have no water, food, and water supplies, and even 10 people from the media have been martyred in the last few days.
08:39 So this is the human condition. The second is that the war should end, peace should be achieved, this is an idealistic and normative assumption.
08:47 But the facts should also be kept in mind. Look, the objectives of the two opposing forces, Israel and Hamas, are different.
08:57 First, we should understand that Hamas has achieved some of its objectives, it has already achieved three objectives.
09:05 The first is that the Palestinian issue, which was suppressed after the war in Ukraine, has now been revived as a very big issue of peace and security on the global level.
09:15 The second is that the Arabs and Israelis were concerned about the normalization of relations.
09:20 Now, that too is a public sentiment, global protests, and the pressure of the media,
09:26 which is not a politically affordable option for the Arab countries to normalize relations with Israel.
09:35 The third is that if the relations between the Arabs and Israelis had been completely normal,
09:42 then geopolitically this whole region would have become America's sphere of influence, which is not acceptable for China and Russia.
09:49 The fourth is that the cost of occupation of Israel has also been increased by Hamas after a lot of sacrifices.
10:04 So, these four objectives have been achieved, but in return, they have obviously paid a lot of price for it,
10:10 and I regret to say that in the coming days and weeks, they will probably pay more.
10:15 Now, let's come to the specific issue of the embassy, which unfortunately is not intended to be a war zone.
10:22 This should be understood as a fact.
10:24 The US embassy is being held in seven countries, and Mr. Blinken has visited them.
10:30 His perspective is not only to stop the war, but to prevent it from spreading.
10:36 That is, Israel should not interfere in the activity of the damage that it can inflict on Hamas and Palestine.
10:48 It is the purpose of the US embassy to prevent any other state or group from entering this war zone.
10:56 This is important to understand.
10:58 Mr. Ali Muhammad, I would like to ask you a question.
11:03 You just asked a question about the influence of the US and China in this game.
11:08 We do not see any influence of the US in this game.
11:11 We have seen the US and Chinese statements of the US and Chinese foreign ministers,
11:19 but the way they are sitting on the American forefront, it seems like they are watching.
11:28 Maybe they are playing behind the scenes, but we do not see anything like that.
11:33 Thank you for that very important question.
11:35 Obviously, their statecraft is different from that of the US, and they are very careful and tactful.
11:42 The reason for the absence of a consensus document at the Security Council meeting was that
11:49 the US tried to legitimize the war against Hamas through the support of France and Britain.
12:03 But China and Russia opposed it, which is why the consensus document was not issued.
12:08 Secondly, the principle position of China and Russia is quite similar to Pakistan's position.
12:13 Let me explain that.
12:15 The common point of China, Russia and Pakistan is the two-state solution and the cessation of hostilities.
12:22 But Russia's position is almost identical to that of Pakistan.
12:25 It says that the occupied territory should be left to Israel and go to the borders from 1967 onwards,
12:31 which means that the occupied territories should be left to Israel and the permanent capital should be the Holy City.
12:38 But I want to clarify the point of your question.
12:42 The foreign ministers of Iran are also trying to lobby for other countries in support of Hamas.
12:53 They went to Qatar, met with Mishal, met with the leadership of Hamas, they went to Lebanon and Syria.
13:01 So, the diplomacy that you see is at these two levels.
13:05 But the question you asked about Russia and China, the US and Israel are doing the most factor on it.
13:14 Because you know that two days ago Israel also attacked two airports in Syria and did not make them temporary.
13:22 The reason for that was that they had the possibility that the arms supplies from Russia and China will land in Syria
13:29 and will be given to Hezbollah and other groups through land routes.
13:32 So, they have already damaged it.
13:34 I would like to ask a question.
13:36 Mr. Khawar, if you allow me.
13:37 Hassan, you can ask a question and you can also ask me a question.
13:41 You are present in Pakistan.
13:43 Do you think that the foreign office of Pakistan is using this issue effectively to talk about coordination or the level at which we can talk?
13:51 Are we using our regional relations effectively or are we just using the same Chandak statements and that's it?
13:59 I think that these are just Chandak statements.
14:03 You have not seen such practical actions.
14:06 The entire nation of Pakistan is with its Palestinian brothers.
14:13 When I see the visuals on my mobile, I feel sleepy at night.
14:18 When I see the deaths of small innocent children, I have no words to describe my feelings.
14:27 Sir, I have a question for Syed Muhammad Ali.
14:30 The prisoners who have come to Hamas, are they valuable enough to negotiate with Hamas?
14:42 Can there be a ceasefire?
14:44 Because, you can see that there are 10 lakh people displaced in Ghaza.
14:51 There is no electricity, no water, no food.
14:57 So, this is a human tragedy.
15:00 So, what do you think, how can this issue be solved?
15:05 And are the prisoners who have come to Hamas, a bargaining chip?
15:10 This is a very important question.
15:12 First of all, you must have noticed that I have seen reactions from about 30 countries.
15:18 In that, Pakistan's position is perhaps the most bold and clear.
15:21 That our foreign minister used the word 'genocide'.
15:26 On one hand, not only did he stop your food, water, medicines, everything.
15:31 And then, there is a continuous bombardment on civilians.
15:34 So, this is a matter of genocide.
15:37 And the second thing you said, the same thing, the way forward,
15:41 these three things will play out among themselves.
15:45 It will depend on how long the war continues and how much more damage is done.
15:49 The first thing is that the embassy is currently running between Israel, America and Egypt.
15:57 In that, this is being tried.
15:59 America is trying to allow the Palestinians who want to leave there, to come to Egypt.
16:10 But Egypt does not want to let them come.
16:12 And why does Egypt not want to let them come?
16:14 Because it is supporting Hamas diplomatically.
16:17 It is supporting that once you are removed from here, you forget your land.
16:22 This means that Israel has taken over it as usual and you can forget about it.
16:26 Now you will remain a refugee all your life and sit on our heads.
16:31 So, this is their concern about Egypt.
16:34 This is a business issue.
16:37 They have prisoners, so they have a problem with them.
16:40 Yes, yes, that is the second aspect.
16:42 Now, the figures between 150 and 200, the prisoners, the Israelis with Hamas,
16:47 will play a very important role in the bargaining.
16:49 The third aspect is that many countries, Turkey, Qatar and Egypt,
16:55 are trying to allow a humanitarian intervention.
17:00 Israel should allow them a free passage for a while,
17:03 so that food, medicines, water, etc. can reach there.
17:08 But Israel has not allowed it yet.
17:11 Because it wants to bargain for humanitarian intervention in return.
17:15 That its prisoners should be released first,
17:17 so that the rest of the 20-23 lakh Palestinians can get water and medicines.
17:23 Mr. Chaudhry Gulamshan, 6000 bombs have been dropped so far.
17:28 I was watching that our Prime Minister has just reached Beijing.
17:32 A statement has also been made by him.
17:35 So, this whole matter is being developed.
17:40 I am not saying that Pakistan has a big role to play.
17:45 But the work that we should be doing on the OIC's punishment,
17:49 we have seen in the past, during the last government,
17:53 that such issues have been raised in a very forceful manner.
17:58 But I don't know why our supervisors, the government officials,
18:02 are so silent, as the judge was also saying,
18:05 that there are a few statements,
18:07 but no one has gone to the court, no emergency meeting has been called.
18:11 So, Mr. Chaudhry, why are they not awake?
18:14 This is not the reality of Pakistan.
18:17 Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE,
18:24 all the countries, Marrakesh, Tunisia,
18:28 some have used more harsh words, some have been soft,
18:32 but the words are there.
18:35 There, the children are being martyred.
18:38 There, the population is being massacred.
18:42 If you have said that 10 lakh people have been displaced,
18:46 then if they are in 23 lakhs, then they have been displaced.
18:49 And they have no problem.
18:52 But they say that the war has come, the war has come.
18:55 We also have to blow the Israel's flag.
18:57 And they are very excited.
18:59 Neither are they ready to throw weapons, nor are they talking about a war.
19:03 But we all, each one of us, everybody,
19:08 I include Mr. Mohammad Ali,
19:11 we are only lip service and passive resistance.
19:15 Yes, there is a lot of oppression, yes, the children are being killed,
19:18 but what can we do?
19:20 Israel is with America, Europe,
19:23 they cannot be compared.
19:25 Therefore, they should throw their weapons
19:28 and accept the hegemony of Israel.
19:33 This is not the case.
19:35 I think that in the face of the Jews,
19:38 whether it is Hamas, Hezbollah,
19:42 and other groups,
19:44 they have prepared, whether any of us survive or not.
19:48 We have to teach Israel a lesson.
19:51 And this time, they have actually
19:55 put their feet on Israel's neck.
20:00 It is not that easy for Israel.
20:03 By the way, I think, Mr. Khawar,
20:06 the fact is that the attack by Hamas,
20:09 I had also described it last time as 9/11,
20:13 that the 9/11 attack was very successful.
20:16 But then the thing to see after that is
20:19 whether the Muslims' problems in the world have increased or decreased.
20:23 So, Hamas did attack,
20:26 but after that, I felt that the lives of Palestinians
20:29 have increased in difficulty.
20:32 And look, we are sitting here, thousands of miles away,
20:35 but the people who are living there,
20:38 their lives are in danger.
20:41 And that danger is such that when you see that
20:44 there is a doctor who is working 24 hours a day for people,
20:48 his son's, his young son's, body has come in front of him.
20:52 So, what will be the state of life on top of that?
20:55 Think about it. We are all cyborgs.
20:58 Children are so precious.
21:01 Such things are seen in the visuals,
21:04 which makes the human soul tremble.
21:07 All these facts and visuals are coming in front of us.
21:10 Now, Mr. Muhammad Ali, there are two issues.
21:13 One is that we are seeing the siege of Gaza happening.
21:16 It is in front of everyone.
21:18 The way Israel is going to move forward, it is moving forward.
21:21 Obviously, we feel that they are allowing us to go ahead with that.
21:24 Whatever you want to occupy on the ground,
21:27 whatever infrastructure you want to destroy,
21:30 whatever support they have in their pockets,
21:33 whatever you want to work on, work on it and then come back.
21:38 But along with this, the second question that arises here is that
21:41 recently, the way the Israelis were moving forward with the Saudis,
21:47 there was talk of a deal of the century.
21:51 Tony Blinken is already present there.
21:53 So, if we move forward both these things together,
21:56 will the Israelis move forward with their work on Gaza,
22:01 the work they are doing, the war they have obviously carried out there,
22:05 and along with that, this matter with the Saudis.
22:08 It seems that the siege has been broken,
22:12 but it seems that in the coming days,
22:14 the Americans will be able to do the work they have to do.
22:18 You have asked a very important question.
22:20 This is a combination of three things that will determine how things will play out in the future.
22:25 First of all, you are absolutely right.
22:27 That is why I said in the beginning that this process of normalization has been suspended temporarily
22:33 because there is a lot of public sentiment and it is politically costly, obviously.
22:37 But look, what are the three objectives of this war in Israel?
22:41 You can relate that to what you said about President Biden.
22:45 Number one, their immediate short-term military objective is to destroy Hamas.
22:51 Their military capability should be destroyed.
22:53 Number one.
22:54 That is why it is necessary to dislodge them from northern Gaza from the point of view of Israel
23:01 that their support system, military system, network, tunnels,
23:07 weapon system should be deployed to displace them.
23:10 And then the rocket stockpiles should be removed.
23:12 Because it is urban warfare.
23:13 If the people leave the same ecosystem, then Hamas will not be able to fight the war.
23:17 That is why Hamas does not want the Palestinian civilians to leave.
23:21 Because in urban warfare, they survive in the same streets and neighborhoods.
23:25 That is where their support system, sympathy and weapon system comes from.
23:30 That is why they do not want the Palestinians to leave.
23:32 And I think that not all of them will leave.
23:34 Neither Israel will let them leave, nor will Egypt welcome them.
23:38 The second objective of Israel is to displace them and gradually occupy more territory.
23:45 And this will be a big signal for the Palestinians, Hamas and their international supporters
23:51 that they can do whatever they want.
23:53 As Mr. Hassan said, the war started by Hamas, but we will end it ourselves.
24:01 And when we will do it, we will do it at our own will.
24:03 So that we can convert it into an opportunity to achieve our goals.
24:08 But there are two more things that I want to share with you.
24:12 One is that I could not complete the point about Russia and China.
24:16 In the realist paradigm, Russia suits the war to go on for a long time.
24:22 Because the longer this war goes on and the more it spreads,
24:26 the more the US and Western powers will be deprived of the focus, pressure and attention of Ukraine's war.
24:34 Which is in Russia's own interest.
24:36 Because it wants to...
24:37 They will be forced to do it.
24:38 Exactly. It wants to...
24:40 I have already seen you.
24:42 The president of Ukraine expressed his greatest concern that if all the ammunition and weapon systems start going to Israel,
24:50 then our supply line will be affected by the military, which is necessary to sustain us against Russia.
24:56 So Russia should open a new front, so that the attention of the US and Western powers diverts from the European front to the Middle East.
25:07 And in the realist paradigm, it suits China too.
25:10 That the US concentration in the East China Sea suits Russia in Europe.
25:14 So it suits both the Middle East that their attention will diverge from there.
25:18 Now, this does not mean that peace will come immediately.
25:22 This means that the opposing forces and groups will get the support of China and Russia.
25:27 And on this, I think Hamas is banking and they are hopeful that it will not come directly.
25:34 Because Israel is a nuclear power.
25:36 How are you taking the Iranian threat?
25:38 The Iranians are saying that the Israelis are running, otherwise we will bring a war there.
25:42 Yes, yes, this is what I wanted to say.
25:45 Look, Iran recognizes this.
25:48 The realist thing is that since it is the only nuclear power in the Middle East,
25:54 Israel has nuclear weapons, so a direct conventional war is not an option.
25:58 But through indirect groups, whether it is Houthis, Al-Aqsa Brigade or Hezbollah,
26:04 they will try to...
26:07 Look, there have been some clashes on the Lebanese border, you know.
26:10 Yes, definitely.
26:12 And Israel is considering this very importantly.
26:16 It has deployed 300,000 troops near Gaza.
26:18 But it has emptied the 28 cities near the Lebanese border.
26:25 So that it wants to keep that option open,
26:28 that if it faces a very heavy attack from the side of Hezbollah from Lebanon,
26:36 then there will not be any heavy casualties.
26:38 But it is a small matter, it is not a big deal.
26:42 They are throwing small mortar shells.
26:44 But in that way, any organization to help the Palestinians,
26:48 whether it is Iraqi, whether it is theirs, Lebanese or any country,
26:53 they did not attack.
26:56 As Mr. Chaudhry was saying, they were left on their own.
27:01 So this war will obviously be fought by the Palestinians themselves.
27:05 If they have any hope, that is, they can get some proxy support,
27:09 as Mr. Muhammad Ali is saying,
27:11 but actually if boots on the ground come from Israel, in Gaza,
27:15 then I still doubt, I don't have any hope,
27:17 that any country will provide them military aid, any Muslim country.
27:22 And let me add one thing to this.
27:24 Look, the deterrence deployed by the United States against Hezbollah,
27:29 it has deployed two carrier battle groups in the Bahrain region,
27:32 because that signal, that message is for Hezbollah.
27:37 That if you are involved in this war, then we will also have to be involved against Lebanon.
27:44 So this is a threat against them,
27:46 because of which the whole game of chess is very complex.
27:51 And I agree with you that the humanitarian situation is extremely disturbing.
27:56 But we should praise the courage of the Palestinians.
28:01 I have been to many programs with their spokesman in Hamas.
28:05 They have not expressed any appeals of mercy or despair.
28:10 They said that we have basically increased the price of our occupation.
28:14 We used to die every day.
28:16 So why don't we die by standing up once?
28:19 Why should we die on our knees when we can die on our feet?
28:24 Mr. Chaudhary Gulamshan, the OIC meeting went on till October 18.
28:29 We have always seen that OIC is just a big-name organization.
28:37 So do you think that some impact will be put on this conflict by OIC,
28:43 or will they just come, sit, look at each other's faces and leave?
28:48 Look, I can also see that Israel's climb is down.
28:53 They will go up and we will destroy them in 24 hours.
28:58 When the US foreign minister is visiting there,
29:03 and they are not getting much response in Saudi Arabia,
29:07 because of that, Israel does not have unlimited time
29:14 to destroy the Palestinians.
29:19 The beatings that Hamas has given them,
29:29 they will continue to bear the bruises for a long time.
29:35 And you will see that they will get many more surprises.
29:39 If you say that 5,000 children have been martyred here,
29:44 and 500 Israeli soldiers,
29:47 and the Palestinians are ready for this.
29:50 They say, "We will kill them anyway," as you just said.
29:53 So we have to call death an apology.
29:57 We will not leave the Israelis.
29:59 And you will see that they will attack Israel from many sides.
30:05 If there is no ceasefire in two or four days,
30:10 and peace is not given a chance.
30:13 Mr. Chaudhary Gulamshan, you have reached.
30:15 Thank you very much for participating in this program.
30:19 Thank you very much.
30:20 Look, when this conflict started in the world,
30:24 there is a debate going on,
30:26 that is the world moving towards a third big war, a great war.
30:31 It seems that, I am here in America and Canada,
30:35 that this conflict, this fight has started.
30:38 Now, at some point, the matter of Palestine,
30:41 the world will have to settle it.
30:44 Because this matter will not move forward.
30:46 Let's move towards a break.
30:47 After the break, obviously, the biggest political story in Pakistan is developing.
30:52 Our Tahiyyat Qaid, myself and Mr. Hassan Ayub's respected Nawaz Sharif are coming back.
30:58 And what are their challenges, how are they being welcomed.
31:02 Hassan also has some internal news.
31:04 Protective bill, where is he getting the protective bill?
31:08 Red carpet, the sin that is being woven,
31:11 in which city of Pakistan will it be protected, Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi.
31:16 There are a lot of news, interesting news.
31:18 After the break, we will share with you. Stay with us.
31:20 Welcome back viewers.
31:25 At the moment, all the workers of Pakistan Muslim League are present in the country,
31:29 especially in Punjab.
31:31 They are busy in preparations.
31:33 Because their leaders are coming back.
31:35 After four years, a very big revolution,
31:38 the news that is being brought to us is that
31:41 on the economic front, on the social front,
31:44 the country will be flooded with milk and honey,
31:48 when the respected Tahiyyat Qaid will take a step.
31:52 Obviously, he is a criminal too.
31:55 He is a convict.
31:56 The courts of Pakistan have declared him a proclaimed offender.
32:00 So what will happen?
32:02 Respected Rana Sinawala has told us that there is no problem at all.
32:07 Our legal team will return from the court a day or two before 21st October.
32:16 And they will be asked for three to four days.
32:20 If you give us so much time, we will come and present.
32:24 It will be very easy to get it. It should be found.
32:27 When that time comes, then God willing,
32:29 in the meantime, he will be from his home in Lahore,
32:33 after addressing the reception and the convention,
32:37 he will go and present the next day.
32:40 And he has also given good news that the existing court is free.
32:48 And we had some concerns about the previous court.
32:52 And now the court is making good decisions.
32:55 And you know that there has been a tradition of Pakistan Muslim League.
32:58 They have a tradition that the courts make good decisions.
33:03 And they make very good decisions.
33:05 And those who do not make good decisions,
33:07 then what are their statements in relation to them?
33:09 They have also done it practically in the past.
33:11 That is also in front of the court.
33:13 So what is respected Rana Sinawala saying?
33:16 Now at this time, we are also very satisfied that
33:20 an extremely legal mind, an independent person, a judge,
33:27 is the head of the court of Pakistan.
33:34 So that is why we are absolutely sure that
33:38 those kinds of tricks and those kinds of tactics
33:42 which were adopted in some time,
33:46 and people like Saqib Nassar themselves were influenced,
33:51 such a situation is not present here.
33:53 The most important comment I was seeing on this,
34:00 that of our Professor Ahsan Iqbal,
34:03 you need a proper leader, not a popular leader.
34:06 But in any country, in which there is a democracy,
34:10 until people do not vote for you,
34:13 until you are not popular,
34:16 people's mandate will not be with you,
34:18 then how can you become a proper leader?
34:20 But the Professor has always presented different explanations.
34:27 I will say that a proper leader is needed, not a popular leader.
34:32 To get out of these storms of the country,
34:35 create unity and consensus in the whole country.
34:39 And we hope that the welcome of 21st October
34:44 will give a new direction to the politics of Pakistan.
34:48 Chaudhary sir, I will come to you.
34:53 First, I will ask Hasan Ayub,
34:55 the difference between proper and popular,
34:58 please explain to us, I did not understand,
35:00 what is proper and what is popular?
35:02 First, I will say good to see you, Khawar sir.
35:06 I saw you after two weeks.
35:08 So, do not go to Mr. Bandyal.
35:11 He called Chairman Tahrik-e-Ansar
35:13 to the judges' gate in the protocol of the Prime Minister,
35:16 when he was in custody.
35:18 So, I saw you and said good to see you.
35:20 I am saying good to see you from my heart.
35:22 Tell me, I did not understand Mr. Ahsan Iqbal's point.
35:27 Is he a proper leader or a popular leader?
35:30 See, a leader is one who is in the hearts of the people.
35:34 If he is popular, then he is a leader.
35:36 If he is not popular, then he is not a leader.
35:38 So, I don't know, maybe he is trying to say that
35:41 a leader who is popular and competent,
35:45 maybe this was his intention.
35:47 If he says that he is a three-time former Prime Minister,
35:50 he has been to Vizirala Punjab twice,
35:52 he has been to the Finance Ministry once,
35:54 so he knows how to run the Amore Sultanate,
35:57 he is talking about former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.
35:59 But the thing is that when he will have a government,
36:04 when he will have an election,
36:06 then only he can talk about milk and honey,
36:09 he can flow if he can achieve something.
36:14 Right now, he says that Delhi is far away.
36:17 Right now, he has to fight the elections first,
36:19 he has to finish his cases first,
36:21 and then after winning the elections,
36:24 then he will have a government and then the test will start.
36:27 We hope that your explanation,
36:29 the Pakistan Muslim League non-voters follow you a lot,
36:32 they should understand,
36:34 so that their employees are not misguided
36:37 that what is popular and what is proper.
36:39 Okay, Mr. Sharif Lam Singh,
36:40 this proper dealer and popular dealer,
36:43 because nowadays we are getting news of deals everywhere.
36:47 In a while, we will tell you
36:49 which deal is being discussed by the Pakistan People's Party.
36:53 Obviously, they have been with him for 16 months,
36:55 they know how deal making is done.
36:58 So, you also explain a little
37:00 about this deal making,
37:02 popular leader, proper leader,
37:04 proper dealer, popular dealer,
37:06 explain a little, people are very worried.
37:09 No, we have to concentrate on only two things,
37:13 the elections are taking place,
37:15 and there is no free-fair-impartial,
37:17 there is no deal-sheil,
37:19 nothing stops in front of the people,
37:21 there are 100 voters,
37:22 80 of them are on one side,
37:24 so you cannot make 20 into 200.
37:26 So, I am not afraid of that,
37:29 I have said many times that
37:31 Nawaz Sharif's country is his, he should come,
37:33 and if people go with him,
37:36 if he has any popularity,
37:38 then we are not afraid of anything.
37:40 But, if you have to run a deal with any of the opposition,
37:44 whoever is running,
37:46 and here there are such examples sitting,
37:48 they say that there will be no election,
37:51 we have been sitting for three years,
37:54 now I will not take names.
37:56 So, they are not doing a good service,
37:58 of this country, or the nation, or thousands.
38:02 Let's go, a while ago,
38:04 Hasan said, good to see you,
38:06 let's go, I think we should not comment much on those who leave,
38:11 but he was an accused person,
38:13 but now, obviously,
38:14 the Prime Minister is coming,
38:16 Tahayyad Qaed, three times,
38:18 along with the declared, proclaimed offender,
38:21 he is also a criminal,
38:22 meaning, he has been given a court decision,
38:25 I am not talking about that,
38:28 the respected Speaker of the National Assembly is present,
38:31 because until the new Assembly is not elected,
38:33 the Speaker remains,
38:34 he heads when the new Speaker is elected.
38:36 So, you can see,
38:39 the news is about Raja Parvez Ashraf Sahib,
38:42 he is saying that we feel like this,
38:44 that a deal is being made,
38:45 a deal is being made,
38:47 and they are coming back inside.
38:49 And along with that,
38:50 the important thing that I was listening to,
38:53 Khursheed Shah Sahib,
38:54 the leader of the Pakistan People's Party,
38:57 he said that Nawaz Sharif Sahib is making past mistakes,
39:03 he has done all this so many times,
39:06 through deal making,
39:07 he has been coming in the court,
39:08 so now, once the people are on the force,
39:12 listen to what he is saying,
39:14 Nawaz Sharif got a red carpet reception,
39:18 or his helicopter landed on the stage,
39:21 we have no objection to that,
39:23 but the people will definitely object,
39:25 the opponents will definitely object,
39:27 that how is this reception done,
39:30 but at least,
39:31 this feeling should not be there,
39:33 that this election is a plan,
39:36 and a planned programme from the back door.
39:39 So, we are saying for the good of Mr. Niaz,
39:42 that he should come and face the courts,
39:45 and be ready for the competition.
39:47 So, today, I am saying a new kind of thing to him,
39:49 for God's sake,
39:50 don't exploit yourself so much,
39:52 that people say that you are coming on someone's shoulders.
39:56 One thing, Hassan Ayyub,
39:59 tell us whether your visa has been applied or not,
40:01 and obviously, you have a plan to go to Dubai,
40:04 talk about that,
40:05 and along with that,
40:06 you also go and explain to them,
40:08 what are you doing,
40:09 why are you doing this kind of deal,
40:11 Mr. Shah, did you understand what he said?
40:13 I don't know what deal he is talking about,
40:16 but I have said before,
40:18 that when Nawaz Sharif will come back,
40:20 then there are no obstacles in his way,
40:25 there are reasons for that,
40:26 and there is a legal background for that as well.
40:28 If you see,
40:29 the Lahore High Court's divisional bench,
40:30 who were allowed to go out,
40:32 that decision is still intact,
40:34 that was Justice Bakir Najfi's,
40:37 two-member bench, divisional bench.
40:39 So, when that decision is intact,
40:41 and the periodical reports have been submitted,
40:44 and the judges had to read them,
40:46 that is, the judges,
40:48 the bench that was given,
40:49 they had to read them as well,
40:50 and in that decision,
40:51 it was also written that,
40:52 if NAB or the government feels,
40:54 that they are misusing their bail,
40:57 then they should appeal to the court.
40:59 So, the question is,
41:00 that the PTI government,
41:01 first it was Usman Muzdar's for two years,
41:03 then after that,
41:04 for six to eight months,
41:05 it was Parvez Rai's,
41:06 and then the Punjab government.
41:07 Why didn't they appeal?
41:09 Then, the NAB's,
41:10 the prosecutors and the general,
41:13 why didn't they appeal,
41:15 and if they misused their bail,
41:16 then Nawaz Shah's,
41:17 where did he go from the country?
41:20 He was hospitalized.
41:22 So, the case that I am telling you,
41:24 that Nawaz Shah's case is not that complicated.
41:27 The way you know,
41:29 that Nawaz Shah gets bail,
41:31 that is, out of a hundred,
41:33 being a court reporter,
41:35 I don't feel a single percent chance,
41:37 that Nawaz Shah doesn't get bail first.
41:40 And after getting bail,
41:42 he will have to surrender,
41:44 before the court of law,
41:46 and now it will be up to the high court,
41:48 whether they send him to jail,
41:50 or accept bail,
41:51 or the sentence,
41:53 they call it a callous.
41:56 But, he has to present himself
41:58 in front of the court of law,
41:59 and the three to four days,
42:00 like Rana Sinhaullah was saying,
42:02 he is right,
42:03 there is not a single percent chance,
42:05 that he doesn't get bail.
42:07 Viewers, we have to go to a break,
42:10 and the 100% chance that Hasan Ayub is telling,
42:13 is that,
42:14 of course,
42:15 a chance is always a one third,
42:17 in any case,
42:19 even in frictions,
42:21 if the chances of the opposite side,
42:24 are proved right,
42:26 then the matter can get worse.
42:28 We will talk more about this,
42:29 after the break.
42:30 Welcome back,
42:35 Mr. Chaudhary Gulam Singh,
42:37 I was watching a story the other day,
42:39 and we are talking about -1 to -2,
42:43 and it was Ansar Abbasi's story,
42:45 if I am not mistaken.
42:46 So, how are you looking at this,
42:48 that obviously,
42:49 Hasan is telling that,
42:50 there is no chance,
42:52 that he doesn't get a protective bail,
42:54 but most people think that,
42:56 it is unprecedented,
42:57 the way he went out of the country,
42:59 in an extraordinary way,
43:00 and in the same way,
43:01 he will come back in the country,
43:03 as Mr. Ashraf was also saying.
43:05 So, what are you seeing,
43:06 in Lahore,
43:07 in the coming days?
43:09 First, let the elections be held,
43:11 what are you doing with -1, -2, -3,
43:14 that this deal will be done,
43:16 that deal will be done,
43:17 I don't understand this,
43:18 the people sitting on the chairs,
43:20 are saying that,
43:22 we have been sitting for 3 years,
43:24 and the officers with them,
43:26 are also reading the same kind of stories.
43:29 Okay, Hasan,
43:31 this story,
43:32 Mr. Chaudhary Gulam Singh,
43:34 is pointing towards this story,
43:36 that the election,
43:37 will not be held for 3 years,
43:39 I am understanding this,
43:40 what Mr. Chaudhary has said,
43:42 do you have any information,
43:44 that this matter may get delayed,
43:46 in the elections?
43:47 Look, he says,
43:48 that before any patient goes,
43:50 let us see,
43:51 according to the current situation,
43:52 in today's situation,
43:53 there are no such chances,
43:54 the elections will be held,
43:55 at the end of January,
43:56 and the thing you were saying,
43:58 that Insar Abbas is aware,
43:59 about -2,
44:00 so -2 will be done,
44:02 -2 is there right now,
44:04 if Nawaz Sharif's,
44:06 two sentences get over,
44:08 then instead of -2,
44:09 it will be -1,
44:10 now Imran Khan,
44:11 and Nawaz Sharif,
44:12 at this time,
44:13 what we are talking about,
44:15 both have been denied,
44:17 by the election contest,
44:19 now if any of their,
44:20 denials get over,
44:22 then it will be -1,
44:24 then if -1,
44:25 both get over,
44:26 then it will be a 0 level playing field,
44:28 but apparently,
44:29 the realities that are being told,
44:31 -2,
44:32 -1 or -2,
44:33 I think if the people,
44:34 decide on this,
44:35 then it will be much better,
44:37 everyone will be happy,
44:38 that's all for today,
44:39 InshaAllah,
44:40 we will meet again,

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