Fox Sports college basketball analyst Casey Jacobsen shares is insight on the Gonzaga Bulldogs, conference realignment and the rest of the college basketball world
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 Continuing on for Gonzaga Nation,
00:10 I'm your host Dan Dickow,
00:11 where we catch up with a number of national analysts
00:15 leading up to the college basketball season.
00:17 Today, one of my favorites,
00:19 not just because he calls games
00:21 and I think he does a tremendous job,
00:22 but because he's also a friend of mine, a former teammate,
00:26 none other than the esteemed Casey Jacobson.
00:30 Casey, appreciate you joining.
00:31 - Dan, always good to be with you, bro.
00:34 I know everybody thinks it's football season,
00:37 but basketball season is right around the corner.
00:40 I can hear the shoes squeaking already.
00:43 I'm getting locked and loaded for the season, man.
00:46 - Yeah, so am I.
00:47 I've got kind of the preseason plan of reading up
00:52 with all of the, you know,
00:54 the Blue Ribbon College Basketball Yearbook,
00:56 the Almanac from Field of '68.
00:58 You start getting the Lindy's and Athlons magazines
01:00 and you start highlighting different things,
01:02 making your notes.
01:03 At what point of year do you start doing that
01:06 or is it a constant throughout the year for you?
01:09 - So I try and do it as a constant throughout the year
01:12 because I don't want to be drinking from a fire hose
01:15 during September and October in preparation for the season.
01:19 It's difficult.
01:20 So I kind of have a process.
01:21 I subscribe to a few, you know,
01:25 information like newsletters, basically,
01:29 for lack of a better word.
01:30 And I'm always constantly reading through
01:33 just the headlines.
01:34 And if there is an article that sticks out,
01:36 maybe a feature on a player at UCLA
01:40 that I know I will need throughout the year,
01:42 and I'm going to make a note of it.
01:44 I'm going to mark it and I'm actually going to put it
01:46 in one of my notes that I have on my computer
01:48 so that I have easy access to it
01:50 as I prepare for a UCLA game,
01:52 instead of thinking like,
01:53 "Oh, where is that article again?"
01:55 So try and keep up with the information like that.
01:58 A slow trickle so you're staying on top of it.
02:01 But man, you know as well as I do, Dan,
02:03 we love our jobs as college basketball analysts.
02:07 It's awesome.
02:08 It keeps us close to the game.
02:09 But one of the really, really difficult things
02:11 is the roster turnover in college hoops.
02:14 It's just overwhelming.
02:16 I look at rosters every off season
02:19 and then right before the season starts
02:20 and I'm like, "Holy mackerel."
02:22 Most teams have five to eight new guys
02:26 that were not on their roster last year.
02:29 And we might know about them a little bit,
02:31 but we don't know about their role
02:34 and how they fit in these teams.
02:35 So that is a constant challenge.
02:37 It's probably my least favorite thing about college hoops
02:39 is the revolving door of changing coaches
02:43 that we have to kind of get used to every year.
02:45 - Well, I just had a conversation
02:46 with LMU's coach Stan Johnson earlier today.
02:49 And they have eight newcomers.
02:51 Gonzaga, I think, has eight newcomers.
02:53 University of San Francisco, I believe, has nine newcomers.
02:57 And it's like, we as analysts
02:59 have to kind of digest the turnover.
03:02 But as coaches, they have to implement their philosophy
03:06 and their culture into these guys' kind of psyche
03:08 in kind of like fast forward type terms.
03:11 How difficult do you feel it is for coaches these days?
03:14 And maybe what coach or two
03:16 do you think has adjusted the best?
03:18 - So it's interesting.
03:20 I think there's a double-edged sword.
03:22 So while absolutely I agree,
03:24 like the negative side of the sword is,
03:27 hey man, it's hard to build culture.
03:30 It's hard to even talk about long-term sustainability
03:34 of a program where, you know, when you and I went to college,
03:37 coaches were anticipating or counting on guys being
03:42 four and sometimes five-year players.
03:45 No one counts on guys being four to five-year players,
03:50 even if they're good enough to go to the NBA or not.
03:53 It doesn't matter.
03:53 No one really operates that way.
03:55 So that's a negative.
03:56 However, the positive side of this sword is,
04:00 it does not take a long time
04:03 for you to rebuild a roster nowadays.
04:05 Like you shouldn't be stuck in mud
04:09 for three and four years now,
04:12 especially if you're a top level.
04:13 Maybe if you're a middle or a bottom tier,
04:15 it can be difficult.
04:17 I get that.
04:17 But if you're a top program that can go out
04:20 and get recruits from high school,
04:21 then why shouldn't you be able to go out
04:23 and get transfers now and be able to flip a roster
04:26 with veteran players?
04:28 So I think, you know, the days of fan bases
04:32 and maybe even school administrators,
04:35 athletic directors being patient with coaches
04:38 and programs at big time universities is gone.
04:41 They're no longer patient.
04:42 They'll give you maybe a year
04:44 and then they want to see a rebuilt roster
04:47 that is competing at the top
04:49 of their respective conference.
04:50 So, you know, it goes both ways.
04:52 I think some of the coaches you have seen
04:56 that have done it really well, Gonzaga.
04:59 Mark Few has been amazing
05:02 at reloading his rosters in certain spots.
05:04 Now I wouldn't say that Gonzaga completely turns over
05:07 like their entire roster.
05:09 They don't do that,
05:10 but they do an absolutely terrific job
05:12 of going and get guys here and there.
05:15 Bill Self at Kansas in the last several years
05:18 has gone out and done the same,
05:20 including this year with Hunter Dickinson,
05:22 the transfer from Michigan.
05:24 Duke is doing it now with John Shire at the helm.
05:30 So yeah, there's a lot of examples of,
05:34 there's a lot of ways to build a team
05:36 and build a program, Dan,
05:37 but I think the most popular one
05:39 that we've seen in the last three or four years
05:41 is try and keep your best players year after year,
05:45 and then go out in the transfer portal
05:47 and fill in those gaps.
05:49 And then you're going to have a good talented roster,
05:52 but also a veteran roster
05:53 that is not reliant upon freshmen.
05:55 - Well, the three big buzzwords in college sports
05:59 are transfer portal, NIL, and conference realignment.
06:02 You and I talked a little bit off camera
06:04 about the realignment,
06:06 and I wanted to ask you about that
06:08 because it hits you a little bit different.
06:10 You're one of the all-time greats in the Pac-12.
06:12 You call games for the Pac-12 network, as do I,
06:15 but you also call some Pac-12 games for Fox.
06:19 But your Stanford Cardinal
06:21 aren't one of the remaining Pac-12 members.
06:23 They are actually moving to the ACC.
06:26 Talk a little bit about your overall general thoughts
06:28 of the Pac-12 and the dissolving of the league,
06:32 as well as your Cardinal becoming a part of the ACC.
06:36 - Dan, if you'd have told me that Stanford
06:38 would be in the ACC,
06:40 I would have slapped you in your face
06:42 and called you a stupid person, man.
06:44 That is just wild.
06:45 Stanford is located pretty near San Francisco
06:49 on the West Coast,
06:50 and they're going to be competing against Duke in Carolina
06:54 and Miami and Louisville.
06:56 It just is so bizarre and weird.
06:58 I don't even know what to say.
07:01 I've talked to the coaches at Stanford.
07:04 They didn't have anything to do with this.
07:05 So let's get into a little bit of my,
07:08 at least my perspective on how this kind of all happened.
07:10 I think the first domino started over a year ago
07:13 when UCLA and USC left.
07:16 When that announcement came down,
07:17 I know it shocked the both of us
07:19 'cause there wasn't a lot of rumors.
07:20 There wasn't any whispers about,
07:24 "Hey, this might happen."
07:26 And then it did.
07:27 It just happened.
07:28 And now, a year removed from it,
07:31 we're able to kind of talk to some people and say,
07:33 "How did that happen?"
07:35 And one of the surprises to me,
07:37 or it's not a surprise now, but a year ago,
07:40 to learn that it is the television networks
07:44 that are driving a lot of this conference realignment.
07:48 And I just didn't,
07:50 I just, maybe I was a little bit naive.
07:51 I mean, I work for one of the biggest in the country,
07:55 in Fox, and Fox was one of the biggest drivers
07:59 in how the PAC-12 has basically imploded.
08:04 The USC, USC in particular, Dan, was unhappy.
08:08 I think they were unhappy on the football side
08:10 that the PAC-12 was dragging them down,
08:13 that the PAC-12 wasn't doing anything
08:14 to really support them, prop them up.
08:16 They hadn't been to the BCS National Championship,
08:21 top four, now it's top eight,
08:25 and they had really been struggling.
08:27 And they felt like the conference wasn't doing enough
08:30 to help them out in any way.
08:32 And so here comes Fox and says,
08:34 "Hey, well, why don't you guys go to the Big Ten?
08:36 We'll help you."
08:38 Fox, by the way, for the listeners who don't know,
08:41 owns half of the Big Ten conference.
08:43 So they are partners with the Big Ten.
08:46 And so for USC and UCLA to go to the Big Ten,
08:50 now it's a mega conference, right?
08:51 The Big Ten was already huge, particularly in basketball,
08:55 but they had, obviously, in football with Ohio State,
08:57 Michigan, and Penn State,
08:58 three of the biggest football brands in the country,
09:01 now adding USC, and it makes them arguably as good
09:05 or even better on certain years than the SEC in football.
09:09 In basketball, you add a UCLA to already some mega brands
09:13 in Michigan State, Michigan,
09:15 and you have yourselves a mega conference
09:17 in basketball as well.
09:19 And so just seeing that happen,
09:22 and then once that domino fell,
09:23 then it was kind of like a feeding frenzy.
09:25 I hate to use like cliche words,
09:27 but it sent shockwaves through all of college,
09:32 and everybody's antennas went up, said, "Whoa, hold on.
09:34 If USC and UCLA can leave,
09:37 doesn't that mean that anybody else in the Pac-12
09:40 could potentially leave as well?"
09:42 This is now a vulnerable conference.
09:45 There was blood in the water,
09:46 and these other administrators,
09:49 they dove into those waters,
09:50 and they started to have conversations
09:52 with Oregon and Washington.
09:54 And of course, those teams, like Oregon and Washington,
09:57 and Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, Colorado,
10:02 I think those teams wanted to stay initially,
10:06 but as the conversations progressed,
10:09 and as the Pac-12 continued to stall
10:13 in getting their media deal done
10:15 with new commissioner George Klevikoff,
10:18 that was a huge red flag for all of them.
10:21 So there was a lot of factors going on,
10:24 and it was a perfect hoop storm, if you will,
10:27 for the Pac-12 that led to instability.
10:31 And I don't blame, as much as I am devastated
10:35 for my conference and what's become of it,
10:38 I don't blame Oregon and Washington and Arizona
10:43 and Arizona State and Utah and Colorado.
10:44 I don't blame them.
10:45 They did what they had to do.
10:47 This is a business.
10:48 Let's not pretend it's anything else than a business,
10:51 and they did what's right for them.
10:53 - What's, this is a little bit of a random question,
10:58 but I know you're passionate about the league,
11:00 or you have been.
11:01 What do you think Bill Walton's reaction was
11:04 when he heard all this go down?
11:06 'Cause I know he wasn't happy when USC and UCLA
11:08 made the decision,
11:09 but now that the league in its entirety is gone.
11:12 - He was actually, and this is funny,
11:15 he was actually one of my second or third thoughts
11:18 after, holy crap, Pac-12 is basically collapsing.
11:21 Like that sucks.
11:23 My second or third thought was like,
11:25 my second thought was, where is Stanford gonna go?
11:28 That was my second thought.
11:29 What, where are they gonna become independent?
11:31 Where are they gonna go?
11:32 And then my third was,
11:33 I wonder what Bill Walton is doing right now.
11:37 And then shortly after,
11:38 I don't know if you heard the podcast.
11:41 If you haven't, check it out and your listeners out there.
11:45 John Canzano and John Wilner do a podcast.
11:50 Go back in their archives a year ago
11:53 when the USC and UCLA news came out
11:55 that they were moving to the Big 10,
11:56 they did an interview.
11:58 And it was a pretty significant interview,
11:59 like 20, 30 minutes with Bill.
12:02 And he was amazing just talking about,
12:05 you know how he can go on.
12:06 Just how upset he was,
12:08 how wrong he thought it was that UCLA and USC
12:12 were leaving the Pac-12.
12:14 It's definitely worth a listen.
12:17 I'm sad for Bill.
12:18 I don't know.
12:19 I haven't talked to him in person.
12:22 I wonder if I'll see him at Pac-12 media days
12:24 in Las Vegas in a couple of weeks.
12:26 I'm sure it's the number one question
12:28 that everybody wants from him.
12:30 Almost like you don't wanna ask him to bother him,
12:32 but you know it's gotta really, really,
12:34 I mean, he's gotta be brokenhearted.
12:36 That's all I can say.
12:37 - Yeah, and how about you,
12:38 your feelings towards Stanford now being in the ACC?
12:43 That one's gotta feel odd for you.
12:45 - It's odd.
12:46 If I'm being completely honest,
12:48 I think they're gonna struggle in basketball.
12:51 The ACC has not been a good basketball conference
12:56 the last, I'd say maybe two years.
12:58 But you and I both know that's a, it's a monster.
13:02 It's been a monster.
13:03 It will be a monster.
13:05 Maybe they're just a little bit down right now.
13:09 Here's the good news for Stanford.
13:11 This is a basketball conference
13:12 that is rich with tradition,
13:14 rich with eyeballs that want to watch ACC basketball.
13:18 So Stanford men's and women's hoops
13:20 will definitely get a raise in profile.
13:22 Although the women's side doesn't even need it.
13:24 Women's side are making final fours
13:26 and winning national championships.
13:27 But the men will get seen more, right?
13:32 They're gonna be playing on ESPN on a weekly basis now.
13:37 But then the other side of that coin, Dan,
13:38 is like they're going to have to compete
13:41 with the likes of Duke and Carolina and Miami and Virginia
13:46 and Louisville who's been terrible lately.
13:49 But Louisville is as proud of a basketball program
13:52 as you will find in the entire country.
13:54 And teams like Virginia Tech.
13:56 And I mean, it's a conference that I think Stanford
14:01 as it currently stands right now
14:03 will struggle to finish in the top 10 in the ACC.
14:08 But then here's the good news.
14:09 A lot of year, there have been several years
14:11 where the ACC and men's basketball
14:13 has gotten eight or nine NCAA tournament teams in.
14:17 So it's not like Stanford has to win
14:20 or finish in the top three or four to make a tournament.
14:23 They don't, but it's going to be an uphill challenge
14:27 for a Stanford program, Dan,
14:29 that has only made one NCAA tournament
14:32 in the last 15 years.
14:34 - And that's a proud program.
14:37 You were a big part of having them,
14:39 top five rankings during your tenure there.
14:42 So fingers crossed for you
14:44 in your passionate, loyal, cardinal fan base,
14:47 they can get things turned around.
14:49 But this is obviously a Gonzaga-centric podcast.
14:53 We talk about a lot of things nationally
14:56 from a Gonzaga lens.
14:58 You as a national broadcaster being on the West Coast,
15:02 you don't call too many Gonzaga games,
15:04 although occasionally you'll get one on your schedule.
15:06 When you see a Gonzaga game pop up on your schedule,
15:09 what's your first thought
15:10 and how excited are you when that happens?
15:13 - I'm always really excited.
15:14 I'm honored to call a Gonzaga game.
15:18 And I say honored because there are a few programs
15:22 in the country that are so good,
15:24 that the level of hoop, the level of coaching,
15:27 the fan base is so good
15:31 that it really does feel like an event when you call a game.
15:34 I would put Arizona in that category.
15:37 I'm calling a game at UCLA at Poly Pavilion,
15:39 especially the last couple of years with Mick Cronin
15:41 who's doing a fantastic job there
15:43 and kind of has that fan base excited again.
15:46 Those are like events and I feel honored
15:48 'cause I'm a basketball nerd.
15:50 I know the traditions of most of these programs.
15:53 And Gonzaga, although when I was in high school,
15:58 I didn't know what Gonzaga was.
16:00 It wasn't until my senior year when Matt Santangelo
16:03 and Fromm and all those dudes, Casey Calvary,
16:06 put Gonzaga on the map with Dan Monson
16:10 that I really even, I was like,
16:11 I never even heard of the city of Spokane before,
16:13 but now they've turned into a perennial power.
16:17 And the level of basketball,
16:19 the level of talent that Mark View puts together
16:22 in the last two decades is just awesome.
16:24 Their style of play is fun.
16:27 So calling a Gonzaga game for me is a treat.
16:31 I follow the team so I don't have to do too much homework,
16:34 but it's a treat because of the style of play,
16:37 the European, you and I both played in Europe,
16:41 the European style where you have bigs that are versatile
16:44 that can handle the ball and be a part of the offense.
16:47 They'll play a lot of five out motion.
16:49 Everybody can dribble, pass and shoot.
16:51 So yeah, I get super stoked every time.
16:55 This year's Gonzaga team,
16:56 I'm actually really intrigued about.
16:58 I don't think they're on the level
17:01 as far as just overall talent and depth
17:03 that they have been at.
17:05 And of course losing Drew Timmy,
17:07 I don't even know what I'm gonna do.
17:08 It actually feels weird to watch a game without Drew Timmy.
17:12 But I do like, I'm a big fan of Ryan Emhard.
17:16 I've covered many of his games before in studio
17:18 and on site for Creighton.
17:21 Think he's a really good player.
17:22 And Graham Ekay, although Graham Ekay
17:24 has been out of basketball for a year because of an injury,
17:28 I called many of his games at Wyoming
17:31 in the last couple of years.
17:33 And dude is just a beast, a total monster.
17:35 And he doesn't play like Drew Timmy.
17:38 He doesn't play like Kelly Olenek.
17:40 He's kind of a different breed,
17:41 a total back to the basket like warrior down there.
17:44 But I can't wait to see how he fits in
17:47 and see how this Gonzaga team can perform.
17:50 - As we're catching up with a number of analysts,
17:53 I try to ask them if there's a storyline
17:56 that maybe they're curious about or they're tracking.
18:00 Obviously we talked about the big three conference
18:02 alignment, we mentioned NIL,
18:04 even though we didn't get deep into it
18:06 in the transfer portal.
18:07 But is there a quiet theme that you think
18:10 is not getting the attention that it should
18:14 and that you're watching closely?
18:16 - Yeah, I would say to answer that question,
18:20 I would be like, there are two teams
18:22 that I am most intrigued about, just on a personal level.
18:26 Nationally, and we haven't talked about them at all
18:29 on this podcast yet.
18:30 The first is Kentucky, Dan.
18:32 I am like John Calipari, five or six years ago,
18:37 couldn't have been hotter, right?
18:39 He could have just like, I mean,
18:41 he was the highest paid coach in the country,
18:44 considered one of the best recruiters of all time
18:48 and a pretty decent coach too.
18:50 Like his teams always played hard.
18:52 They played especially hard on the defensive end.
18:54 I think the knock on him is that, yeah,
18:56 he would go out and get really great recruits,
18:58 but could they play together and could they shoot?
19:00 I always thought that an Achilles heel
19:02 for the Kentucky teams over the last five, six years,
19:04 they haven't been able to shoot threes.
19:06 And as the evolution of college basketball
19:08 and basketball in general has really leaned
19:10 towards a three-point arc, I think John Calipari
19:12 and Kentucky have been slow to adopt it.
19:15 But what I'm curious about and why I'm talking
19:17 about him right now, Dan, is I just think like,
19:19 I think John Calipari is on a real hot seat
19:22 and it's crazy to say that,
19:23 but I do think it is real.
19:26 Kentucky has not made a Final Four since 2015,
19:29 which is tied for the second longest drought
19:32 in Kentucky basketball history.
19:34 So it's a program that's just not used
19:35 to not going deep in the tournament.
19:39 Since 2019, Dan, Kentucky has won NCAA tournament victory.
19:44 I know there wasn't a tournament in 2020,
19:47 but one tournament win-
19:49 - That's not gonna fly in Lexington.
19:51 - I mean, these fans are going absolutely nutty.
19:54 And so, and this Kentucky team, I think is good,
19:58 but just okay.
19:59 It could go off the rails.
20:01 I could see it going off the rails.
20:02 Oscar Shibuya is not back.
20:05 They have some front court depth issues.
20:08 And I'm just fascinated to see how the season goes for them
20:12 and when they get to the NCAA tournament.
20:13 So that's number one.
20:14 And then number two is Purdue.
20:17 Dan, Purdue became the second team ever besides Virginia
20:22 to be a number one seed and lose to a 16 seed.
20:25 We remember what happened to Virginia
20:27 the following year in 2019.
20:29 They won the national title.
20:31 Can Purdue do that this year with the reigning
20:35 national player of the year returning in Zach Eaddy?
20:40 But I'm not sure I'm picking Purdue.
20:43 And here's why.
20:44 I remember in 2019 when Virginia did it,
20:46 they had three NBA players on that team.
20:48 A couple of them were fringe NBA guys,
20:50 but they played NBA games.
20:52 - They were all good players, yeah.
20:53 - I don't know if Purdue has any NBA players.
20:57 I mean, I think Zach Eaddy will get a chance,
21:00 but I'm not like totally sure that he's gonna put on
21:03 an NBA uniform and play in an NBA game.
21:06 And I'm pretty sure, pretty confident in saying
21:08 that the rest of his roster, at least this year,
21:11 is probably not gonna play in the NBA.
21:13 So I just wonder if Purdue has the guys,
21:17 the dudes around Zach Eaddy to really make a Final Four.
21:22 And I think Matt Painters is generally considered
21:24 one of the best coaches in the country,
21:26 certainly at the top of the list of best coaches
21:28 who have yet to make a Final Four in his career.
21:31 Is this the year they get to a Final Four?
21:34 Maybe.
21:35 I'm kind of like in a wait and see mode.
21:38 Last year, they had so many freshmen,
21:39 including Braden Smith and Fletcher Lauer,
21:42 freshmen guards who kind of didn't look so good
21:45 in that NCAA tournament loss.
21:47 And they're gonna be sophomores this year.
21:48 Can they handle a little bit more pressure?
21:51 We'll see.
21:51 But those are the two teams, Kentucky and Purdue,
21:54 that I'm fascinated with to see the growth
21:57 and the weight of expectations on both of those programs.
22:01 - Well, I like the fact that you picked both those teams
22:03 because Gonzaga plays Kentucky in Lexington,
22:06 part of a six-year series.
22:08 And then they open the Maui Invitational against Purdue.
22:11 And I know Purdue's gonna be probably top three,
22:14 top four in most preseason polls.
22:18 They might even be number one in a few,
22:19 simply for the fact that you mentioned
22:22 Zach Eaddy and the returners.
22:24 But they're a interesting proposition
22:27 'cause I think they maxed out last year,
22:29 their level each game.
22:33 And they weren't able to rise to the occasion
22:35 in the NCAA tournament.
22:37 And at the end of the day, that's what people remember.
22:39 So I'm glad you picked those two.
22:42 - Yeah, I don't think anybody
22:43 will have Purdue ranked number one.
22:45 I think on paper, Kansas is, to me, kind of clear.
22:49 No, I'm not gonna say head and shoulders,
22:50 but I think it's pretty clear
22:52 that Kansas should be the number one team in the country
22:55 with what they have returning plus what they've added.
22:58 And then I also think teams like Duke,
23:00 I think Duke is gonna be really good.
23:02 I'm definitely a believer in Duke this year,
23:05 what they have.
23:05 I think Kyle Filipowski is going to be side-by-side
23:08 being talked about as the player of the year
23:10 along with Zach Eaddy, both of the center position.
23:13 I think Filipowski is just awesome
23:14 and unguardable and versatile.
23:17 And I think if he, I think last year,
23:20 I don't have the numbers in front of me,
23:21 but I wanna say he was averaging like,
23:22 I don't know, 16 and 10.
23:24 I think Filipowski is gonna increase those numbers.
23:28 And if he averages like 18, 19,
23:30 or maybe even close to 20 points a game,
23:31 and Duke is as good as I think they're gonna be,
23:34 I think Filipowski is gonna get a lot of love and respect
23:37 for national player of the year.
23:38 And I think Duke has way more dudes,
23:40 way more depth than a team like Purdue has.
23:43 So looking out for the Blue Devils this year too.
23:46 - Great stuff as always, Casey, I appreciate you joining.
23:49 - Dan, you're the best man, have a good one.
23:52 - For Gonzaga Nation, he's Casey Jacobson.
23:55 I'm your host, Dan Dickout.
23:56 Thanks for joining.
23:57 (upbeat music)
24:00 (upbeat music)