The model and author stopped by Vogue’s Forces of Fashion to talk all things wellness, the modeling industry and motherhood before an crowd of fashion insiders and fans.
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00:00 The power that was granted to me left me indebted to the men who had granted me that power.
00:05 Live from New York, it's The Runthrough.
00:10 This is The Runthrough with Vogue.
00:11 I'm Chloe Males.
00:12 And I'm Choma Nadi.
00:14 And we are here in the Vogue offices in New York studio in front of a live studio audience.
00:19 And this is the first time we're doing that.
00:21 I would love to hear from the audience.
00:23 Are you excited to be here?
00:28 Emily Ratajkowski, welcome to The Runthrough.
00:30 Thank you so much.
00:31 Thank you for having me.
00:33 You must be one of the most photographed women in the world.
00:35 I can't imagine having to get dressed every day if you're photographed every single day.
00:41 What is that like?
00:42 How do you...
00:43 I don't think I've seen a bad photo of you on the street.
00:46 I don't know about that.
00:48 When there's that many pictures and, you know, Lord knows I can't control the lighting outside
00:52 my home.
00:53 No, I mean, yesterday I took my son to preschool in sweats and, you know, sneakers and somehow
01:00 those pictures are still home circulated.
01:01 I'm like, who cares?
01:02 It's the most boring thing ever.
01:05 But yeah, you know, it is definitely something I think about because the longevity of those
01:12 and the distribution of those images is so bizarre to try to comprehend.
01:17 I one time had the revelation and I've repeated it many times since that, you know, one image
01:23 of me going to get coffee could be the picture that people like see when I die, when they
01:28 Google my name.
01:29 Right.
01:30 And that's so weird.
01:31 You know, it's a really bizarre thing because I think there's obviously so much media that
01:35 there's also some things that are forgotten for sure.
01:38 Yeah, it's really weird.
01:40 So getting dressed, I don't know.
01:43 I was saying this the other night.
01:44 I was at my friend's book release and I was speaking to a reporter and she said, "How
01:47 do you dress for an event like this?"
01:50 And I don't know what came over me, but I was like, "Have you ever seen the movie 13
01:53 going on 30?"
01:54 She was like, "Where are we going with this?"
01:58 But that's sort of how I feel.
01:59 I can't believe that I'm lucky enough to have the life that I do and live in New York City.
02:05 And even though there is pressure and there's whatever, I sort of just dress for myself
02:11 and really enjoy the fact that I'm an adult who gets to decide what kind of woman I want
02:16 to be, whether that's me going wearing sweats to drop off my son at preschool or, you know,
02:23 going to Vogue for Forces of Fashion.
02:25 I just try to enjoy it.
02:26 I think of it as a self-expression.
02:27 What age did you start modeling?
02:31 It sounded like your parents encouraged you.
02:33 Is it something that you wanted to do?
02:34 Were you interested?
02:35 I mean, a lot of young girls at that age, that's a dream, you know?
02:39 Yeah, my mom always says, "You wanted to do it."
02:42 And it's like, "Well, no shit.
02:43 I was 13.
02:45 Who doesn't want to be a model?"
02:47 Especially we're talking Y2K era, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, this real like
02:53 the most, to me at that moment, the most powerful and important women were famous ones and photographed
03:00 ones.
03:01 So I wanted to be a part of that, especially in middle school when I was like, "What do
03:05 I even look like?
03:06 Am I a monster?
03:07 Am I hot?"
03:08 You know, whatever.
03:10 And so it was this sort of, of course I wanted to do it, you know?
03:14 And how do you think those first jobs guided your experience of modeling and guided your
03:19 professional path in general overall?
03:22 They didn't.
03:24 I mean, I think that one thing that, you know, there are stories where people are like, "I
03:29 did this one job and then I did this other job and then wham."
03:33 For me, it was so many years of just working and I, you know, once I got my driver's license,
03:39 I would drive myself, miss school and, you know, do a shoot and a job and not have to
03:46 work a minimum wage job in a cafe, which was tight.
03:49 I loved that aspect of it.
03:52 And that was sort of just how I saw it.
03:54 I saw it as work and it really wasn't until I'd had some fame that I started to be like,
04:02 "Oh, right, this is a career."
04:04 And it was partly because my parents are artists.
04:07 Like, my dad is a painter, my mom is a writer, but they were never able to make a living
04:11 doing their art.
04:13 They had to have a profession.
04:15 So there was this real kind of separation of church and state for me about how you made
04:19 money and what you actually did.
04:22 So I went to a year of college and was planning, I was majoring in art and it sort of like,
04:28 I was planning on this just always being my side hustle that kind of allowed me to do
04:33 what I really wanted to do.
04:35 But I graduated high school in 2009, so the housing market had collapsed.
04:40 I was very scared of student debt.
04:42 I had seen what my friends were dealing with who were older than me.
04:47 So when the opportunity came for, I was working a lot more, I was like, "I mean, do I need
04:51 a degree in art, like right now, you know, and maybe I should just..."
04:56 And everybody also, you know, really emphasized the idea of women can only model until they're
05:01 maybe 30, maybe, maybe, and that's if they're really lucky.
05:05 So I felt like, "Oh, shit.
05:07 I guess I'd better do that."
05:08 And that's when I dropped out.
05:09 Film Courage: Your big break for maybe one person in this room who doesn't know was the
05:13 Blurred Lines video.
05:14 How long ago was that?
05:15 10 years now?
05:16 Emily Blunt, Jr.
05:17 Yeah, 2013.
05:18 Film Courage: Do you think back on it differently now?
05:23 Do you think of the experience like "Oh, poor baby Emily."
05:26 This was maybe different than I thought it was at the time?
05:29 Emily Blunt, Jr.
05:30 I mean I wish I was better at "Oh, poor baby Emily."
05:32 I don't think I've ever said that in my life.
05:35 I need to probably do that more, be more therapeutic.
05:38 Definitely I wrote about it in the book as well.
05:42 There's an essay called Blurred Lines because the evolution of my politics happened in relation
05:49 to this video and my attitude and my feeling around it.
05:54 Film Courage: Can you explain how a little bit?
05:56 Emily Blunt, Jr.
05:57 Yeah, it's very complicated.
05:58 When I was 21 and I became famous for basically dancing around naked in a music video, a lot
06:04 of people came for me.
06:06 Not just the video and the lyrics and all that but just for me as a 21-year-old girl
06:12 who had been my body was in this video.
06:15 And I was very defiant because I was like "No, I get to do what I want and choice
06:20 is powerful and I can be in my body and feel good about it and don't tell me that I'm
06:25 not a feminist."
06:26 I was raised by a feminist mom.
06:27 Politics were a big part of my conversation.
06:28 It wasn't something that I hadn't believed in before.
06:32 So I took this really controversial stance because obviously the men are clothed in the
06:37 video, the lyrics are the lyrics.
06:42 It wasn't until I was older that I started to think I changed my attitude around that
06:48 because I thought about power dynamics in a different way.
06:51 And I think that when you are in your early 20s and you are using your sexuality, you
06:58 can mistake the attention that you're getting as being power.
07:04 And so writing about the actual dynamics of the set, it was a female director and there
07:10 were a lot of women, but who was actually in control, who was entitled to my body, whether
07:15 or not I was safe.
07:17 It made me realize that actually this mistake that young women make, which is a fair one
07:23 because I don't know that I would be sitting here had I not done that video, which is very
07:28 important to kind of recognize.
07:30 I think a lot of people want to kind of skip past that.
07:32 Young women really believe that that's it, that's power, right?
07:36 It's just like the Britney Spears thing.
07:37 It's like why did I want to model in the first place?
07:39 And I think what occurred to me kind of from much not because I wanted this to be true
07:47 was that it's really, I think how I put it in the book is the power that was granted
07:52 to me because of male desire left me indebted to the men who had granted me that power in
07:58 the first place.
08:00 And that's the evolution of my politics around it.
08:03 Do you ever hear the song on the radio now?
08:06 I mean, I guess no one listens to the radio anymore.
08:08 Do I hear the song?
08:10 Does it like a trigger or are you like, "Eh?"
08:12 No.
08:13 I'm over it.
08:17 How do you stay healthy?
08:18 How do you stay healthy?
08:21 You mean with eating or just in general?
08:23 Just in general.
08:24 I mean, you know, I don't know if you're into the-
08:26 What's Emily's daily-
08:27 Yeah, what's your wellness routine and what's, you know, how do you stay well?
08:31 How do you-
08:32 Are you a goop girly?
08:33 Yeah.
08:34 Is it infrared saunas?
08:35 Oh, I did get a wonderful facial yesterday.
08:36 I was like, "I need to do this more often."
08:38 Your skin looks pretty good.
08:39 Thank you.
08:40 Yeah.
08:41 So my new thing is resting.
08:44 This is my new emphasis, like thing I actually talk about-
08:47 You heard it here first, everyone.
08:48 Okay.
08:49 Okay.
08:50 But here's the issue about how we think about rest now.
08:53 We think resting is being online.
08:55 We think being in our bed and just frying out on our phones is resting.
09:01 That is the least restful thing you can do for yourself.
09:04 I used to love, I call it one-eyed scrolling, where you're just like, you know, in bed.
09:10 That is exhausting.
09:11 The amount of information that we are processing on an hourly basis is exhausting on top of
09:18 just your personal life, your professional life, whatever.
09:21 So I got very sick last month, actually in the middle of fashion month, and I came home
09:26 and I was like, this is-
09:28 It was a creepy kind of combination of symptoms.
09:30 Like my stomach hurt, but I also had a sinus infection.
09:33 And I was like, am I dying?
09:34 Is this it?
09:35 What picture are they going to use in my opiate?
09:36 Yeah, exactly.
09:37 I was like, this is going to be crazy.
09:38 Am I going to be picking up my dog's poop?
09:44 I don't know.
09:45 No, but I basically kind of did something different than I'd ever done before, which
09:51 is I just didn't look at my phone and I didn't work because I never think of it as working.
09:56 I'm like, I just answered a couple of emails.
09:58 That's working.
09:59 That's exhausting.
10:00 And it's a really different type of thing to go offline and to...
10:04 I watched movies, not with also scrolling and not with reading articles and not with
10:10 taking that hot TikTok take.
10:13 Just rest.
10:15 So I really believe in that now.
10:17 And one of the ways that this has helped me is having a two and a half year old who's
10:20 growing so rapidly that I'm scared of missing moments with him.
10:25 So I've learned to be present in a different way and it helps.
10:28 I feel better.
10:29 In your book you write about, or I think it was in an interview maybe with Ashley Graham
10:33 about how you write every day and that that's sort of a meditation of sorts.
10:38 Is that still something you do?
10:39 No.
10:40 Oh, God, no.
10:41 I'll take that.
10:42 Yeah.
10:43 I mean, I'm not an artist's way, girly.
10:45 Writing for me is torture and not therapeutic.
10:48 I mean, it's the best.
10:49 It is cathartic at the end of the day, but no, I don't keep a journal.
10:55 I agree with you about writing being torture.
10:57 It is.
10:58 I mean, it's like how people talk about exercise and working out where they're like, "It's
11:03 so awful," but then you feel so good.
11:06 Yeah.
11:07 What was it like finishing your book?
11:08 I mean, didn't you have like that kind of, you get that euphoria and then you crash?
11:12 It's like Dorothy Parker said, "Everyone loves having written."
11:15 Yes.
11:16 Yeah.
11:17 It's true.
11:18 I mean, you know, it's weird.
11:19 I do, the energy I have after a day where I've done a decent amount of work is really, that's
11:25 something.
11:26 I'm in a good mood.
11:27 I'm in a good mood.
11:28 Yeah.
11:29 I had just had my son when I finished the book and that was really wild because I'd
11:34 written like 90,000 words before I even sold the book.
11:38 So the book was like kind of done, but then I was-
11:41 That's a long book for people who don't know how long it was.
11:43 Normally you sell like one essay, you'll sell something and then you write the rest of the
11:48 book.
11:49 I was so prepared for people to underestimate me that I was like, and I was just so tired.
11:54 I feel like I hear people say, "Oh, I'm going to direct this movie.
11:57 I'm writing a script."
11:58 I'm whatever.
11:59 I was like, "I'm going to, before I say one single thing, I'm going to write the actual
12:02 book."
12:03 But then the editing process is really serious and there were things I wanted to add in and
12:06 whatever.
12:07 And mom brain is a real thing.
12:09 And I had a moment where I remember just sitting and being like, "I've ruined my life.
12:13 I don't have my brain anymore because I gave birth to this baby and I'm not going to be
12:17 able to finish this book."
12:18 And it was like-
12:19 How long did it take for that shift to-
12:21 I mean, you know, it's funny.
12:23 One of the essays that I wrote after he was born is sometimes what people will come up
12:28 to me and be like, "That's my favorite essay."
12:31 At the time it didn't feel, I couldn't think of words.
12:34 I didn't feel that like connection to the focus that I wanted.
12:41 But I mean, it worked out.
12:43 I would say by the time I was doing press for the book, which was November and I had
12:48 locked the book by June, I was like-
12:51 When was yours?
12:52 It was on March.
12:53 Okay.
12:54 Yeah.
12:55 Yeah.
12:56 You said that you were afraid that people might underestimate you.
12:58 Do you think that you still feel, do you feel that people underestimate you?
13:02 Has there been an example of that that you can talk about or-
13:05 People underestimate femme presenting people.
13:08 Agreed.
13:09 I'm not special in that way.
13:11 I want to be queer.
13:14 And I think that, you know, you just have to kind of, I mean, one thing that's happened
13:17 is I just don't care as much.
13:20 People can underestimate me all they want and that's fine.
13:22 It doesn't impact me.
13:23 I used to really have this feeling of like, "Oh my God, I have to prove something.
13:27 I have to do something.
13:28 I have to, you know, have this accolade or, you know, the book needs to reach this kind
13:33 of success or this person needs to approve of it."
13:36 Or, you know, "Did I say now doing podcasts or my own podcast, did I say like too much?
13:41 Did I say yeah too much?"
13:42 I don't care.
13:43 If you don't like what I'm saying or can't understand it because you're so caught up
13:48 in your own sexism about the way I'm speaking and my vocal fry, well, fuck you.
13:53 Sorry.
13:54 I mean, I'm sorry.
13:55 You said God damn, so I felt like I was allowed.
13:56 We allow.
13:57 Thank you so much.
13:58 Thank you.
13:59 I'm like, "Let's get rowdy."
14:00 No, but I just, I don't mind it and I think everyone has experienced, you know, that before.
14:09 I want to hear about your son.
14:11 What's his favorite thing in the whole world?
14:13 Well, he's very excited about being a purple octopus for Halloween.
14:17 Excellent.
14:18 What are you being?
14:20 Well, so he keeps changing.
14:21 It's really stressful.
14:22 He keeps being like, "Mommy's a shark.
14:24 Mommy's a crab."
14:25 I'm like, "You've got to pick something."
14:26 You've got to commit.
14:27 I'm sure also, by the way, at the time he gets this octopus costume he's going to be
14:31 like, "No, no.
14:32 I want to be whatever else."
14:34 But it seems we have a C theme.
14:35 OK.
14:36 No, he's amazing.
14:37 His favorite book right now is Eloise, which I'm quite proud of because I love that book.
14:41 That's very chic.
14:42 Yeah, it's chic and it's just, it reminds me of my own childhood.
14:45 There's actually so much for him to kind of think about in it in a way that's cool.
14:51 And yeah, he's just a, I mean, you know, I'm his mom, but I do think he's the best, you
14:56 know?
14:57 Who do you go to for mom advice?
15:00 I have a really group, amazing network of mom friends that kind of came together, pandemic
15:07 babies, and we have a group called Moms.
15:11 And it's just fun.
15:12 And Sly had a rash on his, we were in the bath, this is last week, and a rash developed
15:18 on his body.
15:19 And I was like, "Oh my God."
15:20 And I sent crazy pictures to the mom group and everybody sent their crazy pictures of
15:24 rashes.
15:25 What was it?
15:26 I think it was actually just an allergic reaction, but I was worried it was hand, foot, and mouth.
15:30 So which is a whole-
15:31 We just had that.
15:32 It was terrible.
15:33 So it turns out that's going around, which I wouldn't have known had I not had this mom
15:35 group.
15:37 So yeah, and I think that there's a real like dryness to, this generation of moms are so
15:41 refreshing because they're just so honest about all the feelings that they have around
15:47 this shift in identity and this responsibility.
15:50 And I think that's so much more healthy.
15:52 Do you think about your mom differently now that you're a mom?
15:55 Or the way she parented?
15:57 Yeah.
15:58 I think about both my parents differently, definitely.
16:01 It's bizarre to come into the world and be like mother, father.
16:05 And then my parents were always very bohemian, so they always felt like friends.
16:11 But just realizing like, "Oh, they had had this whole life before, and then they had
16:15 this baby that they had to take care of."
16:18 And without the internet and without the kind of attitude of just brutal honesty that mommy
16:23 blogging, thank God, kind of brought around actually over 10 years ago.
16:29 I remember we shot you actually when you were quite pregnant and you were glowing.
16:33 It's one of my favorite pictures of you.
16:36 How did becoming a mother change your relationship to your body?
16:40 I think it's such a transformative experience.
16:43 Yes, it was.
16:44 We were talking about control earlier, or at the beginning of the conversation.
16:49 And when I was writing my book, I realized I'd become obsessed with control.
16:53 It's one of the reasons I like writing.
16:55 There's nobody else.
16:57 It's just me deciding what words go on the page.
16:59 It's my story.
17:00 It's my POV.
17:02 And control of everything, right?
17:03 Like ownership of image, blah, blah, blah.
17:06 And what being pregnant taught me, which was also a lesson about my body, is that actually
17:10 sometimes the way to be the most at peace and oddly in control is to let go.
17:17 My body was just doing things that I didn't understand and just marching forward in this
17:25 incredibly humbling way where I was completely out of control.
17:30 And there was a world where that could have totally set me, which I have had friends that
17:35 that's happened to.
17:36 But instead, I just leaned in and actually with birth specifically, there was this surrendering
17:43 of control and this faith in my instinct and in my body and what it's able to do and the
17:50 knowledge that's there.
17:53 And I really believe that.
17:54 Actually before we started this, somebody asked, "What's the best advice you've ever
17:58 gotten in your life?"
17:59 Which is a tough question.
18:00 And I said, "Trust your instincts."
18:02 And I do actually think it's sort of related to the lesson I had through birth.
18:07 There was a recent internet moment of mom shaming of like a party mom, a celebrity party
18:13 mom and people really came to her support.
18:17 You are now a dating mom.
18:20 Do you feel judged about that?
18:24 Do you feel that there's a stigma attached to it?
18:27 I do.
18:28 I do.
18:29 I think that there is this sort of classic archetype of femininity and this journey of
18:36 you're a child and then you're hot and then you're a mother and then you die.
18:42 And it sucks.
18:44 It's not great.
18:45 And I just don't believe in that.
18:47 I don't believe in that arc.
18:48 And I think that the best way to change that is by living your authentic life and not trying
18:54 to fit into these kind of boxes that have been prescribed to us.
18:59 And how are you enjoying single life?
19:01 I mean I know you've called as young divorcee a chic.
19:05 Yeah, I do think it's actually kind of chic.
19:08 I think it's really interesting.
19:10 I'm actually thinking about writing about divorce and I called on a couple writer friends
19:16 to offer a bunch of like what's the best divorce writing.
19:20 So we had like Rachel Cusk and there's a bunch of books that I'm reading right now and they're
19:24 all about women who are older and their families are coming apart.
19:30 And I do think that my generation there are a lot of women getting divorced quite young
19:35 and I want there to be more resources about that because I think there is still such a
19:40 taboo and so much shame in the idea that divorce is failure.
19:45 I have seen – and listen, that's hard and there is a loss absolutely that comes
19:52 with divorce and separation.
19:54 But women don't always get the share, the fair end of that deal, marriage, right?
20:02 Especially now because women are working and they're making oftentimes more money than
20:07 their partners and then they are also taking on all the responsibilities at home.
20:11 So I think it's really important that there are examples of women deciding to opt out
20:16 of that and saying this isn't failure, this is evolution for me and without the shame.
20:22 So I hope that that happens more and more.
20:26 Are you on any dating apps?
20:28 I am.
20:29 I never check it anymore.
20:30 There was a minute where I was like, "Let's go."
20:34 And now I'm, I don't know, I think I'm…
20:36 I don't need to see another profile.
20:38 You have to take breaks.
20:40 Yeah.
20:41 Yeah, I think it might be a permanent break.
20:44 I have not gone.
20:45 I went on one date but it was somebody that was a mutual friend so it doesn't really
20:48 count as an internet date.
20:49 Yeah, that's a fake internet.
20:50 Yeah, thank you.
20:51 I always have a lot of anxiety creating a profile.
20:54 Did you do it with a friend or like how do you create a picture?
20:56 So I have always been that friend who curates all of my other friends because, you know,
21:01 I have some experience in curating an image and whatever and I love it.
21:06 Definitely the first round when I put it up, I was like, "What the hell?
21:09 Talk about what pictures do I use?"
21:11 You know?
21:12 Like is it like the goofy like, you know, this is what it would be like to FaceTime
21:17 me or am I like serving, you know?
21:19 I didn't know what to do.
21:20 So I've kind of, yeah, I was consulted.
21:23 I got good help.
21:25 What makes you swipe right?
21:27 Oh God, what makes me swipe right?
21:32 I mean I feel for these dudes on these apps because they don't always know.
21:38 There's a lot of like pictures from one wedding they went to and I'm like, "Just because
21:45 that's a professional photo, that doesn't mean that should be the one you use."
21:49 Like I want to know how you dress.
21:50 I want to know like what your vibe is and they're not always good at curating the vibe.
21:54 So I feel bad for them because I'm like, "I don't know.
21:56 I think you're just bad at this and you might be lovely in person."
22:01 So just maybe no wedding photos.
22:03 So I take it you don't want to get married again?
22:07 I don't know.
22:08 I actually don't.
22:09 I don't feel that way.
22:11 I would maybe get married again.
22:13 It depends.
22:15 When was the last time you kissed someone besides your son?
22:17 Oh wow, this podcast is awesome.
22:21 I don't kiss and tell.
22:22 All right.
22:23 We love to hear it.
22:24 Good answer.
22:25 Last question.
22:26 What is next for Emily?
22:27 Do you have another book project happening?
22:30 Are we going to…
22:31 What are we looking forward to?
22:32 I definitely always plan on writing.
22:35 I'm not going to ever say that just as I'm in the tradition.
22:39 I never say I have a book until I have it.
22:41 I'm really interested in mediums of expression.
22:45 So for me it's like I am interested in film.
22:47 I'm interested in video.
22:49 I'm interested in podcasts like that evolution of my podcast that's happening next year.
22:55 I'm really excited about because it sort of marries in all these different formats.
23:01 And so for me it's kind of like the sky is the limit in that sense.
23:06 And yeah, just I love living in New York for the time being and I'm raising my boy.
23:12 And we're so looking forward to what you've got in store in 2024.
23:14 So thank you so much for joining us.
23:15 Thank you so much for having me.
23:16 It was wonderful.
23:17 Thank you.
23:18 And that's it for this episode of the Run Through with Vogue.
23:23 Thank you both for having me.
23:24 Thank you.
23:25 I really appreciate it.
23:26 It was really great.
23:27 Thank you.
23:27 Thank you.
23:28 Thank you.
23:28 Thank you.
23:33 Thank you.
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