Trump IMPLICATES Himself, Michael Cohen’s Lawyer Watched him FRY
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00:00 So much going on.
00:01 Donya was in the courtroom today with Donald Trump testifying
00:05 in the New York Attorney General civil fraud case.
00:08 Don't forget, Donya represents Michael Cohen.
00:11 Donya and I work together as attorneys and Donya was in the courtroom.
00:17 Tell us everything.
00:19 Oh, I don't know where to begin.
00:21 Let's let's like get out of thesaurus and go through as many
00:26 adjectives as possible for bananas, bonkers, crazy town.
00:30 It really I've been practicing law for half my life, which is a
00:36 long time at this point.
00:37 Both federal and state, civil and criminal.
00:40 I've never seen anything like this.
00:42 I think I said in our last time together that the lawyers and
00:48 all the participants left, you know, the rules of civil procedure
00:52 of evidence of decorum at the door when they walked into that
00:56 courtroom and.
00:58 It's one thing, you know, everything is objectionable and everything
01:03 is pure theater, but it got really very personal today and very
01:10 unhinged so we can get into.
01:12 I mean, there was some substance.
01:13 I guess we should talk about that very little actually and it
01:17 happened pretty early on in the testimony.
01:19 Pretty quickly the AG's lawyer Kevin Wallace.
01:24 Established I think what everything he needed to which is at the
01:30 crux of the case, the attorney general's office, which is that
01:34 Mr.
01:34 Trump had some involvement in these valuations in the statements
01:39 of financial condition there at the heart of the case.
01:41 So pretty quickly, Mr.
01:44 Trump gave that up readily.
01:46 So he said, yes, you know, he was he was aware of it.
01:50 He was familiar with it.
01:51 He had some input into it and that kind of was really all that
01:56 was needed.
01:57 Why explain that for everybody?
01:59 I mean the judge already ruled on summary judgment that these
02:04 statements at issue were rife with fraud that they overvalued
02:10 many many of these assets for the purpose of getting more favorable
02:15 treatment with insurers and with banks for financing.
02:17 So it really was just a question of establishing who is at fault
02:23 who is aware of this fraud.
02:24 Now, it's true that there will be an appeal and that it is
02:28 possible that that ruling will, well it's certain that the ruling
02:32 will be scrutinized.
02:33 It's within the realm of the possible that some or all of that
02:38 ruling could be overturned.
02:39 Seems highly highly unlikely because at the end of the day,
02:42 this is largely a paper case.
02:45 And so really I think what we're talking about in this trial is
02:50 questions of punishment, of remedies, civil remedies really that
02:55 include, you know, disgorgement and what's known as the corporate
02:59 death penalty, which really would put an end to the Trump
03:02 organization.
03:03 And so it was important for the AG's office to establish that
03:07 Mr. Trump himself was aware of this.
03:10 And as he said, he had input into it.
03:14 He later distanced himself to some degree and put a lot of it
03:20 as many, you know, I mean he's often been compared by my client
03:25 Michael Cohen to a mafia boss.
03:27 But you know, you see this a lot in that context where it's the
03:32 underlings, it's the Capos, it's the soldiers who are doing, you
03:36 know, the work.
03:36 And here he tried to put a lot of it on his former CFO, Allen
03:42 Weisselberg, and controller Jeff McConney.
03:45 I think it's Jeff, right?
03:46 McConney. And also on his very high end, he is stuck on the fact
03:53 that his accountants were very expensive.
03:55 So he put a lot on them. People mispronounce, you know, Mazars
04:02 or Mazars very differently.
04:03 But at the end of the day, it's the high end, you know, pricey
04:05 accountants. And so he did some of that. But right out of the
04:10 gates, he kind of put himself in it and established, because I
04:15 think he had to to some degree because his name is all over
04:19 those financial statements.
04:21 And he does say in the financial statements that, you know, he
04:25 is the final decision maker here and that he had final authority.
04:31 But he, you know, he got that, that came out pretty quickly.
04:36 And then the rest of it was an exercise in blame, you know,
04:42 the blame game and pointing his finger, both metaphorically
04:47 and quite literally, at the judge and the attorney general.
04:51 There was a lot of like fake defenses that the judges already
04:56 ruled were not effective or that just simply as a matter of
05:00 law, quite obviously or not.
05:02 Like what?
05:03 So, I mean, they're all over the place, you know, of course,
05:06 there's the political witch hunt, a term he used quite a bit.
05:10 He called the attorney general a political hack. He called
05:14 the judge a fraud. And I think we should unpack that a little
05:18 bit because it was, it was pretty stunning. He goes on and
05:24 on about how he actually undervalued these assets that he's,
05:28 you know, richer than he even put on the paper and how he
05:34 understated the value of his, I think he referred to the
05:38 properties as magical or, you know, artistic or, you know,
05:44 whatever it is, but they're the best properties in the world
05:46 and his brand is the best in the world. He said at one point
05:51 that he won the presidency because of his brand, which is
05:55 maybe one of the few true statements that he made during
05:58 the hours long testimony. But, you know, he went on and on
06:04 about, let me see, I have my notes in front of me. I just,
06:07 I had a mediation right after testimony. And so I scrawled
06:12 stuff down, but I'm just getting home. And so, but there
06:16 was a lot about materiality, how he didn't really care about
06:20 the statements and certainly the banks didn't care. The banks
06:22 love him. They wanted to give him whatever he wanted.
06:26 He said the bankers are going to testify, right? And say
06:29 that he committed to that and that they are going to say
06:33 that they didn't really care about these statements of
06:36 that they would have loaned him that amount of money, no
06:38 matter what. Statute of limitations came up quite a
06:44 bit. A thing that the judge has ruled on ad nauseum. And
06:49 so, you know, it was an opportunity every time he raised
06:54 it or his attorneys objected based on it and the judge
06:57 would overrule the objection. He would get to smirk.
06:59 There's a lot, the transcript will come out, but there's
07:02 a lot that is not going to be on the four corners of
07:05 the transcript, including a lot of like wild gesticulations
07:09 and the smirking. And as I said, the actual finger
07:14 pointing and the facial, you know, gestures and expressions.
07:18 So that, you know, there was, oh, he talks a lot. Sorry,
07:24 I'm, this is kind of like a stream of consciousness.
07:26 In these statements of financial condition, there's
07:30 something that it operates as a kind of a disclaimer.
07:35 He likes to call it the worthless clause, which doesn't
07:38 say by my reading and by the judges much more importantly
07:42 does not say what he says. It says what Mr. Trump
07:44 repeatedly, again ad nauseum, proclaims is that it essentially
07:51 nullifies the entire financial statement. So there's
07:55 one clause that says, you know, the reader, essentially
07:59 the bank, is free to do their own diligence. And so
08:03 he repeatedly refers to this as the worthless clause.
08:06 And at some point the judge was a little erratic, but
08:10 in my own opinion, but generally very polite and patient,
08:16 you know, at some point he said, let's, you know, let's
08:18 move on. We're not going to do this again. And, you know,
08:24 but that didn't actually stop Mr. Trump from repeating
08:28 that quote-unquote defense. So that's a nutshell,
08:33 but there's a lot, there's a lot of color in between,
08:36 you know, the lines there.
08:38 So there's six or seven charges that he's charged
08:41 with, right? One of them is this persistent fraud that
08:44 the judge has already ruled on and the remaining counts
08:47 require that conduct be intentional and that it to be
08:52 material. If the banks get up and say that didn't matter,
08:56 we would have loaned to money anyway. What does that
08:59 do to materiality? Does that matter, do you think?
09:02 It's a great question. So I think we can just dispense
09:05 with the other piece of that that you mentioned in
09:07 passing the intention part. I think that has been
09:11 established. That's again, these are just my opinions.
09:14 Michael Cohen's testimony, I think, put intent to rest
09:20 and I do think Mr. Trump's testimony today was a nail
09:24 on the coffin as well because he didn't only say
09:27 that he was a part of, you know, all of this and
09:29 he had input and, you know, both at times thought
09:33 things were overvalued, at times thought they were
09:36 undervalued, but he also, you know, made clear that
09:41 he views himself very much as an expert in the field
09:46 and, you know, there's probably not a lot of room
09:49 for disagreement there, but he squarely says, look,
09:52 no one knows real estate better than me. No one
09:54 knows valuation better than me. No one knows banking
09:57 better than me. And so between that and the other
10:00 piece of testimony that we just discussed, I think
10:04 intent is probably going to be difficult for him
10:08 on appeal. Materiality, I think, is very interesting
10:11 and I was, I noted as you just did, his promise
10:15 and his lawyers promised that the banks would
10:18 testify in a certain way. I'll be curious to see
10:22 if that is borne out because there's no question
10:25 that the AG's lawyers have spoken with the banks
10:30 and must be confident on this point, but, you know,
10:35 it's certainly an element of some of these
10:39 causes of action. And so it's hard to imagine
10:43 a bank saying, you know, yeah, we wanted this
10:46 information, we reviewed this information carefully,
10:48 we took notes on this information, we noted this
10:52 in our paperwork in terms of what the financing
10:55 was going to be, what the terms are going to be.
10:56 All those things are true, but we didn't really
10:58 care. It's hard. I just think that's going to be
11:02 an uphill battle, but if the testimony comes in
11:06 as he and his lawyers predict, that could be
11:09 a soft spot for the AG's office. So I'll be
11:13 interested to see, maybe even sneak back into
11:14 the courtroom to see what happens there.
11:17 It's just crazy. Can you imagine any one of us
11:19 to say, oh yeah, my apartment's three times the
11:22 size because I'm going to count the hallways and
11:25 the elevators and the roof deck and as a
11:29 result, I'm going to take out, you know, much more
11:31 money than I could take out if I was honest about
11:33 it, right? Things like that. And then he uses
11:35 that money to buy other things and, you know,
11:38 that's how his wealth grows without playing
11:43 fairly by the rules, right? And at the same time
11:45 he doesn't pay as many taxes as the rest of us
11:47 because he, when it comes to tax purposes, the
11:50 same properties that are worth lots and lots
11:52 of money are worth a little bit of money and, you
11:55 know, so he just doesn't play fairly. So to say
11:57 this is victimless, which he keeps saying, I just
11:59 think is wrong. It's not victimless. The rest of
12:01 us are all the victims. You know, we're the
12:03 schmucks that pay too much tax, too, you know,
12:06 too much in taxes and, you know, don't get
12:09 rich because we don't grift off of, you know,
12:12 lies and fake money, right? I mean, that's
12:15 the offensive part of this.
12:17 He does say there is a victim, but it's him.
12:20 I mean, he's repeatedly saying not just
12:22 that he is, you know, the subject of this
12:25 political witch hunt, but that other real
12:28 estate developers do this and get away with it,
12:30 which obviously is not a legal defense. If you
12:32 get a speeding ticket, you don't get to say,
12:34 well, other people were going fast, too. So even
12:37 if that were true and that's just not on trial
12:40 here, you know, that's a tough
12:43 one, too. But no, he definitely portrays
12:46 himself very much as, you know, poor me
12:49 and, you know, this is a political
12:53 persecution.
12:54 Speaking of somebody portraying
12:57 themselves as poor me, I was shocked at Alina
12:59 Haba, his lawyer, who gave a somewhat
13:02 whiny press conference afterwards saying how
13:06 the judge yelled at me and was pounding his
13:08 fist and, you know, I'm thinking to myself,
13:11 okay, really? Your client just
13:14 basically has been yelling at everybody,
13:16 calling everybody names, and a judge was
13:19 acting like a judge and trying to control his
13:21 courtroom. I mean, did you see the judge
13:23 yelling at her?
13:24 And I mean, I heard her saying that the
13:27 judge was yelling at her, but I didn't hear
13:29 him yelling at her. It was interesting. I mean,
13:32 a lot of this is for the media. A lot of this
13:35 is for the audience of one, Trump himself,
13:39 and some of it is probably for the appellate
13:41 record. So a throwaway statement like that,
13:45 that is blatantly untrue, is really just
13:48 for, you know, the first department, you know,
13:50 which is the appellate court or ultimately
13:52 the Court of Appeals. But yes, she plays,
13:55 she also plays this, you know, victim card
13:57 quite a bit. And then she, on the other hand,
14:00 she also, you know, attempts to give tutorials
14:05 in trial advocacy to the other side. So she's
14:09 trying to tell Kevin Wallace how to ask a
14:12 proper question, as she did with Michael
14:15 Cohen. And let me tell you, it was not a
14:18 masterclass from where I was sitting. So she,
14:22 you know, she does a lot of that and she's
14:25 very, very combative, of course, but also just
14:30 for someone who, I don't know this for a fact,
14:34 but from what I could tell, has never tried
14:37 a case before. You know, it's, she's just
14:41 amazingly supercilious and arrogant. So, you
14:45 know, that's just one of the parts of this
14:49 that I found really shocking as a lawyer who,
14:53 you know, teaches professional responsibility
14:57 and has taught trial advocacy. Just, you know,
15:01 the brazen, blatant disrespect for the court
15:06 and for lawyers on the other side. I mean,
15:08 the lawyers are just laughing to themselves
15:11 or, you know, for the cameras or for the press.
15:14 And it just, look, I get it's, the judge
15:19 has ruled and it's a bench trial, so there's
15:22 no jury, you know, to maintain decorum for.
15:25 But still, it's just, it's almost hard
15:29 to watch, you know, someone who cares about
15:31 the practice. So yeah, that was another
15:35 noteworthy tidbit from the day or from
15:39 all the proceedings, actually.
15:40 And so Don Jr. and Eric, who testified basically
15:44 took the tact of, you know, we relied
15:48 on the experts, you know, it wasn't me,
15:50 I don't really know. I think Eric, when confronted
15:52 with certain things, had to backtrack that
15:54 a little bit. But they didn't fight the facts,
15:57 right? They didn't say, oh, the numbers are
16:00 wrong or right. I just didn't have anything
16:02 to do with it. Trump today, Mr. Trump today
16:05 said, basically tried to embrace the facts
16:09 and took responsibility. What does that do
16:12 for Ivanka, who's going to be testifying
16:14 later this week? That's going to be one to
16:17 watch too. I don't know. I mean,
16:22 I, she's obviously out of the case. So she
16:26 has been dismissed on statute of limitations
16:29 grounds. So she obviously is in a very
16:32 different position. She has separate counsel.
16:35 I actually was with her attorney
16:39 and that matter had to run out too. But,
16:42 you know, she's well represented and she's
16:46 she's just very differently positioned. And
16:49 so it will be interesting. I don't know
16:53 whether, I mean, they're still obviously very
16:55 much in the tent, you know, and playing
17:00 the game together. But she's always been
17:02 very careful. And, you know, I'd be surprised
17:06 if she outright perjures herself when she
17:10 doesn't have exposure here. But I, you
17:14 know, I've stopped trying to predict how
17:18 this long and windy road is going to twist
17:20 and turn. So that might be another one. I
17:23 sneak back in the courtroom for. Yeah, no,
17:26 it's just, it's incredible. Now, did his
17:28 witness, did Mr. Trump's witnesses cross
17:30 examine him or whatever you would call it
17:33 at this stage? Yeah. Because he was called
17:35 by the attorney general on directed. So I
17:39 was only there in the morning because I
17:41 had to run out. But my under and I'm just,
17:43 you know, I haven't read anything about it.
17:44 My under, at least from what I could tell,
17:47 it seemed very clear that they were not,
17:49 you know, quote unquote, cross examining him
17:52 as a friendly witness. That there was a
17:55 lot of posturing and talking about having
17:59 to bring him back during the defense case.
18:02 So, so, so no, they didn't. They made,
18:06 you know, long speeches, including talking
18:11 about how brilliant he is and how he was
18:13 not just the former president, but he's
18:15 the future president. I mean, there was a
18:17 lot of, you know, playing to that crowd
18:20 of one again, but they did not, they did
18:23 not question him while I was there. And
18:25 my, my strong sense was that that was not
18:28 happening today. And so Trump also was
18:32 complaining that the judge was cutting him
18:35 off and not letting him speak. And did you
18:37 find that to be the case as well? No, the
18:41 judge didn't cut him off, but he did repeatedly
18:44 admonish him to stop making speeches and
18:49 to answer the question. And, you know, Mr.
18:53 Trump would ignore that and keep going.
18:56 And so some point, you know, the judge
18:59 then started turning to Chris Kyes, his
19:01 attorney, and trying to appeal to him, like,
19:03 can you control your witness? Can you
19:06 control your witness? And at some point
19:08 threatened, you know, if you can't, Mr.
19:11 Kyes, I'm going to have to do it for you.
19:13 And he, and he does have remedies to do
19:15 that. He, he, and he kind of tilted, you
19:19 know, at that and said, well, I could draw
19:22 negative inferences. I could, I could kick
19:24 him off the stand and draw negative
19:25 inferences, which, you know, in lawyer
19:27 speak just means, as you know, means he
19:31 could assume that the answer to any
19:33 question that Mr. Wallace would have
19:34 asked him was a bad one for the defense
19:37 and a good one for the plaintiff in this
19:39 case. So he didn't do that. And I would
19:43 say, like, the judge even lost a little
19:46 steam there. And in part because Mr.
19:51 Wallace wasn't really objecting. I think
19:54 he thought the answers were, were okay,
19:56 despite the fact that they were meandering
19:58 and non-responsive. There was some, I
20:01 think, useful nuggets in them for, for
20:04 the prosecution, for the plaintiff here.
20:06 And so I think he just let it go on. So
20:08 at some point the judge said, look, Mr.
20:10 Wallace, if you're not objecting and
20:11 you're not moving to strike, then, then
20:13 let's just move ahead. And so that's
20:16 what happened. I think everyone just kind
20:17 of threw up their hands.
20:18 And there goes your, what you were
20:19 saying, the rules of evidence just do
20:21 not apply in this courtroom. It's a
20:23 free-for-all.
20:24 Free-for-all, I was just going to say, it was, it was
20:26 absolute mayhem. Yeah.
20:29 Well, was it crowded? Were there a lot of
20:31 people there?
20:31 Yeah, it was, it was packed. I, I was
20:36 allowed in because, you know, I had
20:37 represented Mr. Cohen. But yeah, it, you
20:42 know, standing room only. I don't know.
20:45 It's a huge, it's the huge ceremonial
20:46 courtroom. It's just an absolutely
20:49 beautiful courtroom. Probably a hundred
20:52 people, I'm not good at estimating, but
20:54 it, you know, packed, packed house and
20:57 really riveting. And you could hear every
20:59 time. It was mostly quiet. People were
21:01 listening. But then every time Mr.
21:04 Trump said something outrageous, including
21:06 calling the court a fraud and saying
21:10 that he was, he said he was either, you
21:12 call him a couple times a fraud. And
21:14 then he said, well, you're either a
21:16 fraud or very stupid. He said that? A lot of
21:20 that. Yeah. I don't, you know, I'm not a
21:22 stenographer. So I didn't take notes.
21:24 But he said that, you know, the people
21:26 here, so it could have been the AG's
21:28 office, but in context, I think it was a
21:30 judge or either very stupid or committing
21:32 a fraud here. And, you know, at those
21:35 moments, you could hear just all of the
21:37 clicking on, you know, people's computers
21:41 and so, even if you didn't understand
21:45 English, for example, and you just heard,
21:49 you know, the clicking away, you would
21:50 know, wow, something, something pretty
21:53 explosive just happened. It was, it was
21:55 almost, you know, can you imagine, like,
21:58 talking to a court like that? I mean, he's
22:01 the former president of the United States,
22:03 like, future, according to his lawyers.
22:05 Well, God, I know we saw the polling
22:08 today. I know, exactly. No, it's all, it
22:11 really does feel like he is a caricature
22:15 of himself. And I don't even think I'm
22:18 being disrespectful by saying this. I
22:20 think he, he almost means it. You know, at
22:23 times, I think he was calculating, he
22:25 would, you know, he took the judge to task
22:26 quite a few times for, for grossly
22:29 undervaluing Mar-a-Lago. That was the
22:31 theme. He had a couple themes that he
22:32 kept hitting. And, you know, he says
22:34 Mar-a-Lago is worth between a billion and
22:36 a billion and a half. The judge, you know,
22:39 said something in his, in his ruling,
22:42 which the judge made a dig at Mr. Trump
22:45 and said, I don't think you've read my
22:46 ruling, which seems apt. But he said
22:49 something about it being assessed at
22:51 18 million dollars, which Mr. Trump
22:53 takes great issue with. I wonder how he's
22:56 going to feel, how's he going to feel
22:57 when the tax assessor of Palm Beach
22:59 County comes and says, oh, billion and a
23:01 half? That's interesting. But at one
23:03 point he said something like, you know, a
23:05 quarter of a tennis court is worth 18
23:08 million dollars. So there's, there's, you
23:10 know, at another point he was talking
23:12 about when he was being asked about the
23:15 valuation of Mar-a-Lago and, and how, you
23:20 know, he's assuming that it could be
23:23 developed, right, as, as residences or
23:25 something. And then he was shown a
23:27 document where he promised in perpetuity
23:30 that he would not develop it. And he said
23:32 something, well, that's more bravado than
23:34 a statement of legal intention. So that,
23:37 you know, he's kind of in some way very
23:39 self-aware that a lot of the shtick is
23:42 bravado. And so that's why I'm, I'm
23:45 saying, I try not to be disrespectful. I
23:47 try and, you know, call it like I see
23:49 it. And I don't think, I think he was
23:53 very intentionally, you know, being
23:57 blustery and engaging in that kind of
23:59 bravado. I will say I also, again, just in
24:01 my own opinion, did seem at times to be
24:06 out of control, like not, you know,
24:08 undisciplined. Like I don't think that,
24:12 you know, he, he, I mean, I, it would not
24:16 be good strategy, in my view, to use some
24:20 of the language that he did. And in the
24:23 same way that he had moments, you know,
24:26 Mr. Cohen testified, you know, at one
24:28 point he stormed out of the room, you
24:30 know, slammed, you know, pounded his fist
24:32 on the table and, and left the room. I
24:34 have to believe that was an unscripted
24:36 moment. And I think there were some of
24:38 those today. But it is, I'm certainly not
24:41 doing any kind of psychological profile
24:42 of him. And don't pretend to know, you
24:46 know, where that line is. But that, that's
24:49 just my view as, as a court adjudicator.
24:51 Yeah, well, how scary though for all of
24:53 us that, that, you know, somebody who
24:56 could be the President of the United
24:57 States with his finger on the nuclear
24:59 button has so little discipline and
25:03 self-control, right, that he can't, I mean,
25:06 this is a judge trial without a jury. And,
25:10 you know, he can't even control his
25:14 emotions here. I mean, he's, it's, it's
25:16 scary, right? I mean. Yeah. And it felt
25:19 very, I mean, he, he was talking about the
25:22 judge. And it was funny, he's facing
25:26 straight ahead, the judge is right next
25:27 to him. And they're kind of making faces
25:31 a little bit at each other, mostly Mr.
25:32 Trump doing the face making, but, and
25:34 he's excoriating the judge, saying, "You're
25:37 a fraud. This is a disgrace. Everyone
25:40 should be ashamed of themselves." But he's
25:42 looking straight ahead. It really felt
25:45 like theater. And at one point, he said,
25:48 you know, he's talking about the judge,
25:51 but really to the judge, he's saying, "He
25:53 called me a fraud, and he doesn't even
25:55 know me." It felt like a tantrum. It felt
25:57 like a crazy thing to say. That's not how
26:00 the legal and judicial process works. So
26:03 they need to get to know him. The judge
26:05 is looking at the facts and deciding the
26:08 law. So it's not personal like that. But
26:11 he certainly felt it to be, and that did
26:14 feel like one of those moments where he's
26:17 really acting out and was not able to,
26:19 you know, conduct himself, certainly not
26:22 in a court-appropriate way, but even in a
26:24 way that strategically would make any
26:27 sense, both with this court and with any
26:30 court of appeals.
26:31 Yeah, and it sounds like he, you know,
26:33 he's, I hate to, I hate to use this word,
26:38 you know, because I think it's an overused
26:39 word, but he sounds almost like a coward
26:41 that he couldn't look the judge in the eye
26:43 and say these things, right? That he had
26:45 to look straight ahead and say it to the
26:47 room. Yeah, that's what has been said about
26:51 him. Certainly Michael Cohen, my client,
26:54 has said this publicly, that he actually
26:59 doesn't like direct confrontation. And
27:02 it's hard to square that with, you know,
27:07 the persona that we see sometimes. I think
27:11 that's one fair read of it, that it was,
27:15 he's just kind of externalizing a lot of
27:19 the clear stress that he feels and the
27:22 injustice, but it was, you know, for the
27:26 audience of the press and for, you know,
27:29 his base or whatever it was, and he
27:32 was afraid to kind of turn and look the
27:34 judge in the eye. So, you know, seemed
27:38 like a telling moment. Wow. Anything else
27:43 before we sign off that you want to add?
27:46 I want to scour my notes for a second,
27:49 because I really, I mean, there were just
27:51 so many little nuggets, some of which
27:54 were at odds, you know, with each other.
27:56 You know, he would talk about how he was
27:59 proud of these statements, the financial
28:00 condition, that those are not exactly his
28:02 words, but put a lot of money into them
28:05 and wanted them to be good and they're
28:07 better than other developers. But in the
28:11 next breath, he would say, I didn't really
28:13 care about them at all. They don't matter
28:15 at all. So it seemed like there was not
28:18 always a thread, a coherent thread running
28:22 through it. And there was a, there really
28:24 was a lot of luster. He would say, you
28:28 know, that the fraud is being perpetrated
28:30 on him, Mr. Trump. And he just repeatedly
28:34 would say, this is the opposite of a fraud,
28:37 what he's accused of, whatever the opposite
28:39 of a fraud is, don't know. But he really
28:43 feels, I think he feels, or certainly
28:46 repeatedly proclaims, that again, he's
28:51 the victim of all this and he feels the
28:55 need to tell the court, the world, that
28:58 he's actually the finest real estate
29:01 magnate, that the most, you know, has
29:05 the most financial acumen, is richer
29:09 than everyone even believes. It is that,
29:12 you know, that persona that we've seen
29:14 on TV for so long, you know, coming to
29:19 life in the courtroom in a context that
29:22 that really does matter, that really has
29:26 the potential to be ruinous for him and
29:30 his business, which, you know, is his
29:34 brand and is something he cares very,
29:36 very deeply about, which came out in
29:39 full force today.
29:40 Yeah, well, his constant need for
29:44 validation, certainly, you know, anyone
29:47 who lives in New York, every building
29:50 that he owns has Trump Tower, Trump,
29:52 Trump, you know, he has to put his name
29:54 everywhere, you know, I drive down the
29:56 highway, it's like this portion of the
29:58 highway was cleaned by, you know, the
30:01 picked up litter by, sponsored by Trump,
30:03 you know, like he has to, the Trump Park,
30:05 the Trump, he just has to have his name
30:07 on everything, right? And it's just, it's
30:10 at a certain point, it just feels like
30:12 this insecurity, you know, that he just
30:14 needs this, you know, constant validation.
30:16 He talks at people, he loves big crowds.
30:19 I mean, I don't know, I'm not a, who can
30:21 psychoanalyze anything, anyone, but, you
30:23 know, it's just crazy. Everything you see
30:25 it just seems like that, right? It's so
30:28 interesting.
30:29 Again, it was, it was a moment, I think,
30:31 of truth telling. He said, you know, his
30:35 brand bought him the presidency. Yeah,
30:38 there's certainly some truth to that. And
30:42 he certainly, you know, from his remarks
30:45 today, thinks that's going to work for
30:47 him again. So whatever this, while he was
30:51 on the stand, his campaign was fundraising
30:54 off of it, literally sent out a fundraising
30:57 plea for money, saying, you know, I'm being
31:00 railroaded, this and that, donate money,
31:02 donate money, donate money. If he's so
31:04 rich and successful, why does he take
31:06 everyone's money? Why is he constantly
31:08 grifting off of these legal cases, right?
31:11 Like he should be able to pay for it
31:12 himself if he's so rich.
31:14 It seems like he doesn't need to, you
31:16 know, he did talk today, again, about his
31:19 wealth and how it's, you know, it's been
31:23 undervalued and how no one understands
31:25 how rich he is, that kind of thing. So
31:27 that's definitely a sore point for
31:30 him, there's no question. And, you
31:34 know, he's got all these criminal cases
31:36 swirling around him. This one does seem
31:40 to hit a real, you know, really hit home
31:43 with him. And I think it's, you know, to
31:46 your point, that's the core, if there is
31:49 a core. I'm sorry, that is a little
31:52 disrespectful. But, you know, that's,
31:54 that is at the center of at least what
31:57 he projects to the world.
31:58 Thank you, Donya, for joining again.
32:02 It's always great to see you. And this
32:06 is a special edition of Legal AF, live,
32:10 straight from hot off the press. Donya
32:13 Perry, who is in the courtroom today,
32:16 watching it all happen. Thanks for
32:18 coming.
32:19 Thanks, Karen.
32:20 Hey Midas Mighty, love this report?
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32:30 [Music]