FULL REACTION to Copenhagen vs. Manchester United THIS TEAM DOES NOT GET IT - Ale Moreno -
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00:00 United lost. Craig Burley is here. Let's take you through, shall we, exactly what happened in Denmark. So many talking points from this tie that leaves Manchester United now bottom of their Champions League group. Remember what happened at Old Trafford when these two teams met a couple of weeks ago? That late penalty saved by Onana saved United's blushes. Copenhagen with the victory. Let's take a look first off, shall we, what this means for the group. We saw Bayern Munich beat Galatasaray by two goals to one.
00:29 Which means they are through. It's all about who is going to follow them into the next round. Copenhagen then currently sits second, Galatasaray third. Manchester United a point adrift of those two. Next up for United is the little matter of a trip to Istanbul to take on Galatasaray. Of course, if Galatasaray win that tie, then United are done. They will be out. First, let's focus on what happened today, shall we, in Denmark. Craig, where do we start?
00:56 Well, I mean, I suppose, I suppose the Marcus Rashford thing, but first and foremost, it's all around VAR. Because I'm seeing a lot of people crying again, just continually crying week in, week out about VR. The same people that are saying, "Oh, VR, it's micromanaging now. It's trying to pick all these decisions." The same people that were saying, "There's too many decisions getting wrong by the naked eye."
01:20 And look, there is a little sympathy for Marcus Rashford that he tries to protect the ball. But what you've got to understand is, when IFAB write these laws, as soon as they write in "reckless and endangering an opponent," that's going to be a red card.
01:37 Now, a referee, when he goes to the monitor or has been sent to the monitor, because he didn't see it, right, for whatever reason, he was in a good position, but he didn't see it. So when he's sent to the monitor, he doesn't look at it and go, "Oh, he's a little bit unlucky. Oh, he's a bit unfortunate he's trying to protect the ball." He looks at it and says, "How do I need to interpret this? And I need to interpret this by the way the laws have been written by IFAB, and that is, he has endangered an opponent."
02:03 And the more you see it, the worse it gets, whether he tried to do it or not, which I don't believe he did. I have no doubt, in my opinion, it's a red card. It might be unfortunate, but it's a red card.
02:14 In this instance, you just play it at real time. Would that solve that problem?
02:19 I think they're using the wrong example at the wrong time. We all understand what they're talking about when you freeze frame it, but what you've got to look at is Rashford's about a yard away from the ball. Whether it's freeze framed or at real time, the fact is he goes over the ball and he's not even close to the ball. And that's the problem.
02:40 That's why the referee sends him off. Not because, he doesn't send him off because the slow-mo makes this look worse than it is. It's a bad challenge. Is he unlucky? Yes. I mean, look how far, he puts his foot over the ball, and look how far away from the ball he is. And he stands on the guy. You talk about reckless. It's a cross between standing on his ankle and raking his Achilles. So, it's a red card.
03:06 Yeah. And what I would say is that regardless of the freeze frame or the full speed, it doesn't change the fact that this is a challenge that is above the ankle, and as Stevie just said, rakes down the leg. So, what does the freeze frame do? Well, yes, it highlights it. It certainly makes it very clear. That's for certain. But it doesn't change the reality of the challenge itself. And the reality of the challenge itself is that it was worth a red card.
03:34 And what I found really interesting in the commentary is that they kept saying, "Anybody who's played the game knows this is not a red card." Look, I played the game, and I know what Marcus Rashford is trying to do, and he's trying to shield the ball, and he's trying to make himself big. But you're still responsible as to what you do with your body. You still respond. If you make yourself big and you swing an elbow, you're still responsible as to what you're doing with your body.
03:59 And so, therefore, that doesn't excuse. His intent doesn't excuse the recklessness of the challenge, and therefore, it's a red card. Let's talk football, shall we? Because obviously at that stage, United were in complete control. Copenhagen were all over the place. Yet, just because... They lost the plot. Yes. Just because you lose a player doesn't mean that things should fall apart in the manner that they did ahead of the half-time break, surely. It's not an excuse.
04:25 Well, it's not an excuse, but it certainly doesn't help. But I think if you look at the bigger picture with United and their struggles, you know, they've lost four again tonight. Copenhagen are what we would call a tidy side. They're not exactly one of the juggernauts of European football. They lost three against Galatasaray, who are also in that same boat, and they were at home. They lost four in Munich, and it could have been eight.
04:49 So, the bigger picture here is United haven't been playing well. They've been shipping goals. Yes, they might feel wronged on the Rashford decision. I don't see why they would, because when you look at the replay and continue to look at the replay, it could easily have been a broken ankle.
05:09 So, yes, I mean, the substitutions were made and Amrabat came on. He was poor. Once again, we can talk about the Mason Mount transfer that was so vaunted in the summer and at that price, and yet he's on the bench in one of the biggest games.
05:27 And the World Cup winner in Raphael Varane, who came on, he doesn't look that comfortable, but he's out of the team. And he's preferred to Maguire and Johnny Evans, who have to go off injured. It's just a baffling time all round. And Eric Tenhag, I thought he'd finally saw some common sense at the weekend with his rhetoric, but it seems not.
05:45 Stevie, take us through the winning goal. What stands out for you defensively from Manchester United that let Copenhagen get that win?
05:53 You've got to win the second one, and they don't do that either with all those bodies there and all those players. But it's not a shock, is it? The fact that they've lost this game? We're sitting watching this and we're like, wow, didn't see this coming. But it's not a surprise.
06:07 It's good. We've been watching this all season. They've been throwing goals away for fun all season long. They can't get the back four right. They never play with the same back four. And actually. Tenhag will probably tell you it's because injuries, but actually, does he actually know what his back four is? And again, if you're going to play Johnny Evans before Raphael Varane, I'll tell you what, I'd be asking questions to the manager.
06:32 What I would say is that. Yes, the red card happened, the game changed, the momentum of the game of the game changed, we go into halftime, come into second half, they went up three to they were up three to with 20 minutes to go.
06:45 Now, can you see it out? Is it is a difficult circumstances? Of course it is. But that doesn't again doesn't excuse Diogo Dalo having the rigor just going on the back of him and not even understanding that that's your guy.
06:58 That if a ball is coming in as an inswing, you're going to get on the inside of you. You have to clear that or at the very least, you've got to get your body between you and the goal.
07:06 Again, that has nothing to do with refereeing decision. He has to do with poor defending. Now, to the point that Stevie was making about the centerbacks, never mind winning the challenge.
07:15 They didn't even make a challenge for the fourth goal. Neither Van and nor Maguire actually rise up to go and win the ball. They get caught up with whoever the two runners were for Copenhagen.
07:25 They're seeing the players, they're following the players and the ball goes over their head and it kind of bounces and and and Bargy puts it away.
07:32 There was a moment here in this game that really annoyed me.
07:36 Manchester United goes up three to they score the penalty and Alejandro Garnacho as they go about their celebrating.
07:44 He's telling the crowd for Copenhagen to shush. Yeah, right.
07:47 Garnacho Garnacho. What has Garnacho done in his career to be this kind of player that can go and tell a crowd away from home to shush?
07:57 And what has Manchester United done this year at all to warrant that sort of arrogance and attitude that Garnacho is telling shush?
08:05 At that point, I said to myself, see, this team does it is out of touch.
08:10 They don't quite get it that they're struggling and that there was still work to be done for 20 minutes for you to struggle to get the points that you that you needed to get the result.
08:19 And you're concerned about shushing a crowd. Yeah, this team is not good enough to be shushing anybody.
08:24 This is a classic VAR deflection, same as a Teta at the weekend.
08:29 That's just all everybody will be talking about. People won't can't see the woods for the trees here with it with with Rashford being sent off.
08:38 Trust me. Had this been one of a big bruising Copenhagen defenders on Bruno Fernandes, right, doing something similar, this would have been a bread cart all day, every day from Man United fans and the English media.
08:53 And Bruno Fernandes being the biggest winger in world football, we're rolling about on the ground crying about it.
08:59 People have to accept this is the laws of the game these days.
09:03 The free and all this freeze frame and is to try to clean the game up here.
09:08 Right, and it's not never going to be perfect. And I understand the handball, not just in today's game, the two handballs with VR.
09:16 The frustration is never going to go away. But when you can slow down a challenge and show how dangerous it was.
09:22 And we saw it with Romero, we saw it with Curtis Jones earlier in the season and there have been others.
09:27 And you can show how high up or how dangerous that is. How is that not doing the job properly?
09:34 So I just think people are going to use this as an excuse. But as I said, 11 goals in three of the games tells a story.
09:40 Got a back line that's all over the place. Yeah, it was a difficult night for them once they lost Marcus Rashford.
09:47 But guess what? They've got a lot of experienced players. Manchester United against Copenhagen, you know, they're not in the Allianz.
09:54 They're not in the Bernabeu. They're not in the San Siro. They're in Copenhagen playing a tricky little side.
10:00 The teenager come on in the end, you know, the excuses have to stop.
10:03 And it's interesting you look at the signings that United have made.
10:06 Amarabat, Anthony, Mount all on the bench for a big game that they really had to go and get something from.
10:15 Because it makes you wonder who signed them. Well, it's 10-0, isn't it?
10:20 Well, I mean, he got pushed for Mount. He had to push for Anthony. Yes.
10:25 But my point is when you're a coach, right, and you're pushing for players, you're playing them any chance you get.
10:34 Because you know that people upstairs are going, well, hold on a second. Have you just seen the team?
10:39 Three guys he wanted are not in the team. That's that. They're going to ask questions.
10:43 So the natural thing as a coach to do is to play them. But he's not even playing them.
10:49 It's baffling is what it is. It really is baffling. And I can't figure out why.
10:54 Because if you want to put it down to form, then you could still play them.
10:58 Because the players that are coming in for either one of the three of them are just as bad.
11:03 So again, it goes back to being the coach, bringing them in, you play them.
11:07 And if nothing else, you try and get them to play through the bad form.
11:11 But after that, completely baffling. The teams he picks, I just scratch my head every time they appear.
11:18 Let's talk about then what happens next. With regards to Champions League, as we mentioned, two matches to go.
11:24 For Allembe, Bayern Munich are fine. You know, they're through. That's not a problem.
11:28 But next up, Craig, United go to Istanbul to take on Galatasaray. You lose that, you're out.
11:34 They were competitive tonight in the Allianz in Germany. They lost. They had a goal chopped off.
11:39 In that second half it was tight. They were absolutely brilliant for 70 minutes in Istanbul against Bayern Munich.
11:47 They beat United at home, scoring three goals. Deservedly so.
11:52 So I don't, in that hostile atmosphere, the way they play, with the pace and how they pass it,
11:58 I don't see United winning there. I don't see United even getting a point there.
12:03 I see them getting taken apart. They're not a bad little side, you know, Galatasaray.
12:07 So, no, don't see United. In fact, there's an argument to say the best thing that could happen to them
12:13 is just to get out altogether. Don't even drop into the Europa League.
12:17 They've got enough headaches. They have enough headaches. He's got enough headaches at the moment.
12:21 But if that happens, then that's surely, he's going to be back in Holland for Christmas.
12:25 He'll be back in Holland for Christmas. He'll be back in Holland for Thanksgiving if they lose to Luton this weekend.
12:31 Yeah, yeah, it's very true.
12:34 Look, this game in Istanbul is going to require an element of the game that I just don't think this team,
12:42 this version of Manchester United, has proven that they have, and that is toughness.
12:46 Mental toughness, physical toughness. I don't think that this is a team that is built to grind and built to fight
12:53 because when they're asked to do so, they just don't have it in them.
12:56 And that's why guys like Anthony don't play, because in tough matches you need character.
13:02 And he just doesn't have that. He may have all the tricks, but none of those tricks actually get you productivity.
13:08 And so therefore, those are the kind of guys that you cannot trust.
13:11 And you have to go over there and somehow they got a result in Istanbul.
13:14 I don't like it because the makeup of this team doesn't tell me that there's any sort of toughness
13:18 for them to be able to grind out a result away from home.
13:22 Where do we stand, Stevie, if you're in charge of United?
13:26 It feels as though they're about as bad right now as they've been for quite a few years.
13:38 You know, all the money in the bank that he got, Ten Hag, from last year has absolutely disappeared.
13:45 Somebody's robbed the bank because there's nothing left.
13:48 And right now it feels as though, watching the team, the team has no idea how to get a result,
13:56 how to be together to get a result.
13:59 Do you get rid of him ahead of this Galatasaray game, to just try and give a boost?
14:03 Get somebody in, just a new face, a new voice?
14:06 Nobody wants that job before Galatasaray.
14:10 Yeah, that's the thing.
14:12 Listen, I think at this stage you let him hang himself, basically.
14:15 It's what you do.
14:18 The people in charge at Manchester United can't make a decision to save their life,
14:24 so don't make one and let him get himself out the door.
14:28 Because the way the team's playing, and the way he's coaching and managing right now,
14:33 you don't see him turning this around at all.
14:37 Because the old saying about the team reflects the manager,
14:41 right now that's what it looks like.
14:43 The manager looks like he doesn't know what to do,
14:45 and the team doesn't look as though they know what to do.
14:47 But the worst thing that could happen is that they do just enough.
14:51 That they do just enough to give Sanso life.
14:54 Back to Sol Schalke.
14:55 Yeah, that you put a performance together and say, "Oh, we're back baby, here we go."
15:00 They won on the weekend, and barely won over the weekend,
15:03 and it's like, "Oh, we've got good feelings now, good vibes, positive energy with Manchester United."
15:06 And people are getting all excited. Excited about what?
15:09 There isn't a whole lot to get excited about.
15:11 But if indeed, they're able to string a couple of results together,
15:14 that gives you just enough life.
15:16 And if you're a Manchester United fan, I don't know that that's a good way to go about it.
15:20 Because if this is going to crash and burn, might as well crash and burn now.
15:24 Really.
15:25 Not wait, and wait, and wait, and just kind of, "Alright, the patient is going to die,
15:30 but let's let him suffer for a little while longer."
15:32 That's not good for anybody.
15:34 But it's crashing and burning everywhere, it's not just on the field.
15:36 That's the problem.
15:38 The problem is shared, really.
15:41 Well, it's not, it should be.
15:43 But one guy in particular, who isn't doing a great job,
15:46 but he's taking the full brunt of this.
15:49 What were they doing in pre-season?
15:52 They looked to me as if they never saw a ball in pre-season.
15:55 They looked as if they were in the 1970s,
15:57 go down the beach to the sand dune, and run for a month.
16:01 Where's all this work that these coaches, particularly the big clubs,
16:06 were doing in the summer?
16:08 The patterns they play, and the pressing, and playing as a unit,
16:13 and denying space, tucking the fullbacks in, working in the back line.
16:18 And I know they had a shorter summer because of the World Cup last year,
16:23 but they still had time to work with these players.
16:27 He wasn't out there at hotels trying to sign players,
16:31 because they do have people that will do that, albeit they're not very good.
16:35 He was on the training ground.
16:37 He was on the training ground working with these players.
16:39 There's no sign of anything that he was doing.
16:43 Even Chelsea, to an extent, there's some semblance of what Pochettino's trying to do.
16:49 It's not great at the moment.
16:50 There definitely is at Tottenham, there definitely is at Newcastle.
16:54 You can see where the problem is.
16:56 Their problem at Chelsea.
16:58 Yeah, up front.
17:00 But his team?
17:01 Lots of problems everywhere, right?
17:04 Yeah, I mentioned United fans.
17:06 We said yesterday, we haven't talked about them for a while.
17:10 Hey, Highland was good.
17:12 What do Man United fans expect?
17:16 I know fans, it's always hope.
17:19 When they tune in or they go to your game or whatever it is,
17:22 I suppose from a supporter's point of view, and I'm not a supporter, it's hope.
17:28 But when realism kicks in, when they go out and play at the moment,
17:33 what's the real realistic expectations of what are they going to deliver?
17:38 And it can't be very high.
17:40 I mean, it just can't.
17:42 And then I think everybody starts looking at the periphery for excuses.
17:47 But what about them just focusing on this game?
17:49 They could say, look, we were in absolute control of this match.
17:51 We would have moved up to second.
17:53 Well, I don't doubt for a fact that Copenhagen--
17:55 I'm not saying Copenhagen are going to come back and won.
17:58 I don't doubt for a fact that Copenhagen would have at least figured out
18:02 that first 20 minutes and how poor it was.
18:05 So I don't know. United may have won the game, they may not.
18:08 I don't think it would have continued as it was because I've seen Copenhagen--
18:13 we've all seen them play, and they were a better side,
18:15 and they have been a better side than what we saw in the first 15 or 20 minutes.
18:19 But it's all hearsay, isn't it?
18:23 We got ourselves in a great position, and we didn't get together,
18:27 and we didn't keep them out.
18:28 We didn't defend, well, we have to do better,
18:31 and we have to sort this quickly.
18:34 That gives you a little bit of dignity.
18:36 Coming out with all this nonsense about, well,
18:38 the first goal, and then this, and that, and then on the red card.
18:42 It just makes-- it makes you sound as though you're searching.
18:47 Oh, he is searching.
18:48 Who are you trying to fool?
18:50 We see the video. Everybody sees the video.
18:53 The player's not even in the frame.
18:55 He's already ran past Onana.
18:57 Onana sees a full-- that's a full side of the shot.
19:00 The shot goes through his two defender who has split wide open.
19:03 Maybe complain to the defenders.
19:06 Who are you trying to fool?
19:07 Once you see the video, anybody, again, who just watches the video
19:11 and pays attention and actually evaluates something objectively
19:14 would know that no chance is this offside.
19:17 So, again, who is this story for?
19:20 Who-- even a hardcore Manchester United fan can't possibly look at that video
19:24 and say, "Yeah, look at that. That was offside. No chance."
19:29 I mean, it's not even close.
19:30 It's not even in the realm of a discussion or a possibility that that was offside.
19:34 I prefer that-- I just want to go back to when Diego Maradona, you know,
19:38 handled the ball in a quarter-final of the World Cup.
19:41 And it knocked England out.
19:43 And when Frank Lampard scored against Germany and the ball was a yard over the line
19:47 and it wasn't seen by the officials, oh, in the World Cup.
19:50 I just want to go back to all that.
19:52 The good old days.
19:53 The good old days of getting decisions wrong, but the game was quicker.
19:56 And the fans were like, "Okay, oh, we're out of the World Cup."
20:01 But we really enjoyed that.
20:04 We really enjoyed those decisions. Oh, my God.
20:07 Meanwhile--
20:08 [Music playing]