In this edition of Brussels, my love?, we discuss Ukraine's readiness to become an EU member state and talk about the "uberization" of the European economy.
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00:00 Hello and welcome to Brussels, my love, our weekly talk show about European affairs, where
00:17 we take a look at some stories that hit the headlines this week and find out what is at
00:22 stake for you and Europe.
00:24 I'm your host, Stefan Grobe, sitting in for Maeve McMahon.
00:28 Thank you for joining us here on the set, on TV and online.
00:33 So coming up in this edition, a week of truth for Ukraine.
00:38 The country moved a little closer towards the European Union.
00:41 In fact, closer than it had ever been before.
00:45 The European Commission recommended the opening of membership talks.
00:49 That's good news for Ukraine, even if the green light from Brussels was less enthusiastic
00:54 than expected.
00:56 And don't make Uber make the law.
01:00 That was the slogan of delivery riders who cycled from Paris to Brussels this week to
01:04 protest against their working conditions.
01:07 There it never came as the EU was debating the platform work directive.
01:12 The core question here is this.
01:14 How much flexibility does the European economy need?
01:18 And is the Uberization a fact or can this trend be reversed?
01:25 Let's bring our panel now and try to get answers from Tommy Houtanen, executive director of
01:31 the Martin Center, Maria Martichute, policy analyst at the European Policy Center, and
01:37 Nikolai Vilumsen, member of the European Parliament from Denmark, representing the Left Group.
01:44 Welcome to all of you, and thank you for joining me in our studio in Brussels.
01:49 So let's start with Ukraine.
01:52 Kiev desperately wants to join the European Union, hoping that a full integration puts
01:56 the country on a path to prosperity and protects it against future Russian aggression.
02:02 This week, those hopes were kept alive.
02:05 Take a look.
02:10 The EU's enlargement report card is out, and Ukraine scores high, so high that the European
02:16 Commission is recommending that talks should begin with Kiev on joining the 27-member bloc.
02:24 But Ukraine's pathway into the EU isn't without its challenges.
02:28 Corruption is one of these, as well as the rights of the Hungarian minority in the west
02:32 of the war-torn country.
02:36 Leaders in Kiev also fear that the West's support is starting to wane.
02:39 The conflict between Israel and Hamas has diverted attention away from Ukraine.
02:43 Kiev wants and needs assurances that Brussels and its allies remain committed.
02:47 Opening up talks to join the EU would be the perfect sign of a long-term commitment by
02:52 Brussels to Kiev.
02:54 Tommy, I want to start with you.
02:59 If somebody had told me two years ago that Ukraine would soon be negotiating EU membership,
03:06 I would have thought it would have been a total joke.
03:09 How much of all this is really dictated by security needs?
03:14 Obviously, that's a big factor there.
03:18 Also, but firstly, also Ukrainians have delivered, as Wanderlion, our president of the Commission,
03:24 has said.
03:25 Ukraine, in fact, is between us Europeans and aggressive Russia, and so there's a contribution.
03:32 But also, Ukrainians and Ukrainian civil society is clearly committed.
03:37 It's many times been demonstrated that they want to join European Union, they want to
03:41 enjoy our benefits and be part of our family.
03:46 And the decision of the Commission yesterday, I think it was good decision, it's a good
03:50 day for Ukraine.
03:52 But there's a long way to go.
03:55 This is not accession, this is start of negotiation, and the road will be very long.
04:00 Right, right.
04:01 Well, we'll come to that later.
04:02 Maria, you're a security and defense expert.
04:07 How much does that play into this whole decision?
04:11 Well, I would, in fact, dare to disagree with that, because if we look at both the reforms
04:17 that Ukrainians have been implementing throughout many years up to this point, up to, in fact,
04:23 the very full invasion of Ukraine, we can see that big part of EU law or EU archy was
04:31 already within the association agreement.
04:34 In fact, it was in 1990s that Ukraine declared European integration its foreign policy goal.
04:40 In 2019, Ukraine's constitution was amended to make sure that EU and NATO membership are
04:46 strategic goals.
04:48 Now, about the security considerations, of course, they play the role.
04:52 But we've had security considerations before.
04:55 Annexation of Crimea, Maidan.
04:58 You know, this was de facto violation of Ukraine territory.
05:02 That's a major political crisis that led to security incidents.
05:05 But if there were no war, I mean, let's be honest, right, would Ukraine end up like Turkey,
05:11 that they're kind of a candidate country forever, forever, forever?
05:15 I think that it's very good news that these negotiations are opening up.
05:19 And I think we have to remember that the obligation of the Commission is to look into the merits
05:23 of the Ukrainian government.
05:25 And apparently, they have delivered.
05:28 And I think it's great.
05:30 I really hope that Ukraine will be a member of the European Union.
05:34 What is -- because that will be good for all of us.
05:38 But I would also say now, now it's the obligation on us in the EU to help Ukraine to move forward.
05:46 So this process will lead to a good development and the needed changes, not least when it
05:52 comes to fighting corruption, securing rule of law.
05:56 There we need to help Ukraine.
05:59 And this is also why this decision of the -- or this message and this news is good news
06:06 for the citizens of Ukraine, because with this process, their country can move in a
06:13 good direction.
06:14 So this is an obligation, I think, for all of us now to help Ukraine, and of course also
06:19 for the Ukrainians to deliver in order to move this process forward.
06:23 There is, of course, the fact that it's no secret that in this town and at the capitals,
06:30 there are people who are not happy with the prospect of having Ukraine as a fellow EU
06:34 member one day because of the C word, right, corruption.
06:40 And you mentioned it.
06:43 One who was very outspoken about this was Jean-Claude Juncker, the predecessor of Ursula
06:49 von der Leyen, who in an interview -- because now he's out of office, he can say these
06:53 things -- he said anyone who has had anything to do with Ukraine knows that this is a country
06:59 that is corrupt at all levels of society.
07:02 Despite its efforts, it's not ready for accession.
07:06 And he's right.
07:07 At the moment, Ukraine is not ready.
07:09 But this is the start of the process, which can take a very, very long time.
07:12 It would be -- are we saying that Ukrainians are genetically not able to be uncorrupted?
07:18 No, of course.
07:19 So this is the beginning of the process, number one.
07:22 Number two, of course, what has changed?
07:24 I agree what Maria said about Ukrainians have already done a lot.
07:29 But what is question is also EU's geopolitical role.
07:35 That's also now in the picture.
07:36 So if we get stuck, if we don't resolve the issue of Ukraine, if we don't manage to stabilize
07:41 the situation, the whole talk about EU's global role, it will be put in question.
07:46 Yeah, yeah.
07:47 I mean, it's not that we don't have Ukraine -- that we don't have corruption in any other
07:51 parts of Europe, right?
07:52 I mean, there are institutions and oversight institutions that look at this in the European
07:59 Union.
08:01 That's not a unique Ukrainian problem.
08:03 But how big is it?
08:05 But also, I just want to emphasize, I've been to Ukraine both before Maidan as election
08:10 observer from the Council of Europe, also after, and I have followed the situation in
08:14 Ukraine for a long time.
08:15 I have very good friends in Ukraine.
08:17 So I think when we have this discussion about problems of rule of law and corruption, this
08:22 is not an anti-Ukrainian discussion.
08:24 What my concern is, is that if Europe do not help the people of Ukraine, do not help the
08:30 parts of the -- the strong parts of the Ukrainian society that wants to change their country
08:37 in the right direction.
08:38 And this negotiations process is a tool to do that.
08:44 So the important thing is that this is not just a declaration from the Commission, but
08:49 that it's followed up with action in order to help our Ukrainian brothers and sisters
08:53 in moving their country in the right direction so they hopefully very, very soon can be a
08:59 member of the European Union.
09:01 Look, corruption is perhaps the greatest security risk.
09:05 It erodes public trust with institutions.
09:08 It can paralyze the country.
09:10 And evidence shows that, you know, countries that have high index of corruption are most
09:15 prone to violence and most prone to conflict overall.
09:19 Now Ukraine has been trying to work on corruption for many years.
09:24 Now there is more political will in addition to security considerations.
09:29 But there is a long way to go.
09:30 And I would encourage the member states and the Commission to be very strong on this point
09:36 because it has to have stability and transparency and good governance principles in its institutions.
09:41 But it also has time.
09:43 But I would agree with you that in fact EU could help by tailored advisory services,
09:48 by training, by sending subject matter experts help and support Ukraine in approximating
09:54 these European and Euro-Atlantic standards.
09:57 So I think we're not yet there.
10:00 It's endemic in Ukraine.
10:02 But we are on path.
10:03 What do you make of this argument that Ukraine would suck up all the funds, the European
10:08 Cohesion Fund and whatnot once it becomes a member and all 27 states become net payers
10:15 for a long period of time?
10:18 I think it's clear that changes has to be done within the EU budget and reforms is needed.
10:25 They also need it without Ukraine coming in, to be frank.
10:29 As an example, when we look at the common agricultural policy, I think it's very important
10:33 that we reform it and use the money to create green jobs instead of things that are currently
10:40 now actually unfortunately part of creating the problem of the climate change and the
10:48 killing of the nature.
10:49 So there are changes we need to do.
10:51 Also in Europe to be prepared to have Ukraine coming in.
10:56 Also I think on the labor market, I think it's important that we make sure that we are
11:01 creating a more fair European labor market to avoid that our Ukrainian brothers and sisters
11:08 end up in the situation that we unfortunately often have seen when the Eastern European
11:14 countries that formerly came in, that they ended up being exploited and discriminated
11:19 at the European labor market.
11:20 So I think there are changes we need to do in order to make sure that the Ukrainians
11:25 are coming in, not a second class EU citizens when they come in, but they're coming in and
11:29 being well treated on all levels of the European Union.
11:33 And exactly, the point there is they need to be ready.
11:38 First of all, I think it's very clear that the budgetary framework will not be the same
11:42 than one day in 10 or 20 years as it was when Central and Eastern Europe became EU members.
11:48 That's very clear.
11:49 And secondly, also related to corruption, but economic development.
11:54 What we see in Ukraine, I think it's the strength of Ukraine is that you have very, very strong
11:59 civil society, which is well reflected here in Brussels, who is all these issues.
12:04 So it's not only that we here in Brussels or in EU member states want that change, a
12:08 positive change.
12:09 Actually, it's very much Ukrainians themselves who want that, who are pushing that.
12:14 And so we have a partner there within Ukraine.
12:18 On that reform discussion, you mentioned it and obviously the various governments mentioned
12:25 it, the German government lately said that we have to stop with the idea that every country
12:30 needs to have one commissioner, for example.
12:32 So there needs to be reform.
12:35 What needs to be done?
12:36 You mentioned agriculture.
12:38 What else?
12:39 Political governance?
12:40 And what do we need and how far are we?
12:42 I think the possibility, as we're going to enlarge, I mean, of course you have to be
12:47 manageable, you have to be governable.
12:49 So this brought into the for the qualified majority voting, which potential would have
12:53 to be extended.
12:55 Unanimity could also be revised, perhaps on certain files, which are of geostrategic importance.
13:01 We could raise the threshold, but still not have full unanimity in order not to paralyze
13:05 decision making.
13:06 Budgets will be very important.
13:08 We would have to increase it.
13:10 What you've mentioned about some net recipients would become net contributors.
13:15 That's the way of life.
13:16 You know, the Greece and the Mediterranean enlargement, you know, when the 2004 boom
13:21 happened, well, the discussion was the same.
13:24 So you have to give way to your fellow, you know, colleagues who are joining the club.
13:30 That's just how it goes within European integration.
13:32 And I hope we will have a plan.
13:34 I will hope we will be ready.
13:38 But I just want to say that I think that some things that are being mixed in this is the
13:42 problem we currently have with Orban and his close friendship with Putin and his way of
13:50 stopping effective sanctions that he has tried time and time again when we speak about Russia.
13:56 And I just think it's important a bit to separate these two issues, because it's like there
14:01 is, of course, a discussion about how the future decision making is in the EU.
14:06 But the problem we have with Orban right now, which is, I think, the current thing on the
14:10 table, that we can solve by using effectively the rule of law mechanism.
14:15 If we stopped funding to Orban, I'm quite sure that he will stop stop violating fundamental
14:22 democratic principles that we have seen him do for more than 10 years.
14:25 And I would like to add, I think what would be very wise on part of the EU is to have
14:31 this criteria of rule of law, not just as criteria to enter the club, but when you inside
14:38 the club, because you need to be very clear that the game is not over just because you're
14:42 in the club and you can do whatever you want, because there's less monitoring and evaluation.
14:46 No, the same criteria applies.
14:49 I think that would be...
14:51 And I think conditionality in general, like saying if you are to get EU funding, you have
14:58 to respect workers' rights, you have to respect rule of law, that will also be much easier
15:03 for those citizens that have to pay and become net contributors...
15:08 Move to the core of the issue here, and this is of course the war.
15:12 As long as the war is going on, nothing is happening.
15:17 Speaking of the war, the Italian Prime Minister Melonia recently said, and you know this,
15:22 she didn't do this really intentionally, but she let out in a phone conversation the sense
15:28 of fatigue, right?
15:29 Here's what she said, "I see that there's a lot of fatigue from all sides.
15:34 The counteroffensive has not changed the fate of the conflict.
15:37 We're near the moment in which everybody understands that we need to weigh out."
15:44 Why do you come down to this?
15:45 Fatigue or not?
15:46 I would say that fatigue actually doesn't matter, because if we are not able to fix
15:52 this problem, it will stay with us.
15:55 And especially those countries who are directly feeling the heat, actually we have come from
16:00 that region, many of us here in the table, will consider as long as Putin is there, as
16:07 long as there's a threat of aggression, nothing has - fatigue or not, it doesn't matter.
16:12 We need to fix this, because the point is that if we now manage to stabilize Ukraine,
16:20 that then very surely means that we are able to stabilize the whole continent.
16:25 But if not, in worst-case scenario, we may have our own Middle East scenario here every
16:30 four to five years, some kind of conflict bumping up.
16:34 I mean, who says fatigue also says support, right?
16:38 Now Western support, financial, economic, military.
16:43 Is that sustainable?
16:45 I think it's important that we support Ukraine, and I think it's shameful that we are still
16:49 seeing Russian blood diamonds coming into the European market.
16:53 I think it's very, very problematic that we're still seeing EU buying Russian oil, that we
16:57 see that there has been, for some member states, an increase in the import of Russian uranium,
17:04 because we need to really punish Putin and his oligarchs.
17:10 And the fundamental question here is respect of the international law, because you shouldn't
17:17 be rewarded for making a war of aggression.
17:21 So Putin shouldn't be awarded for what he's doing, and you really need to be standing
17:25 firm in the defense of international laws in all conflicts, also in the Middle East,
17:32 but also especially here in Ukraine, as we all have a common concern to solve the conflict.
17:38 Maria, on this sustainable support --
17:40 On sustainable and fatigue, perhaps, if I may, just very fast.
17:43 It's sustainable to maintain the status quo, but it's inadequate if we want to do the job
17:49 and bring the victory.
17:50 We have to double the efforts.
17:52 And on the fatigue, you know, it's emotions, it's emotional reaction, and that's fine.
17:56 We're all human beings.
17:57 There are hopes and expectations linked to every billion we give, every equipment we
18:02 give.
18:03 But at the same time, we have to be grounded in reality and know what the alternatives
18:07 are.
18:08 And if we're talking about fatigue, you know -- and here I might sound quite strong, but
18:16 a lot of people are fatigued with excuses.
18:19 I mean, every piece of equipment or every military lethal or non-lethal weapon we send,
18:28 it's with excuses.
18:29 Oh, it's not urgent.
18:30 You know, a tour is not urgent.
18:31 It will not change the rule of the game.
18:33 You know, oh, if Americans give Abrams, then we will deliver the leopard.
18:37 Imagine if instead of 5,000 helmets in the very beginning of the war, we had sent those
18:42 leopards already back then, accompanied by the training.
18:46 I think we could have been -- and you know, time and logistics are very important in war
18:50 because you win if you outproduce and you out-supply your enemy.
18:56 So time and logistics are critical.
18:57 Well, of course, you're an analyst here, but we need to look at the governments.
19:03 And even in the United States, you see support is waning, and that's the problem, really,
19:08 right?
19:09 That the political support is -- because people see the counteroffensive is not what they
19:14 thought it would be.
19:15 And that's the risk.
19:16 I'm not advocating this.
19:18 I'm just playing the devil's advocate.
19:20 Even in -- but if I say -- but you're right.
19:22 But even in the United States, the -- even in Congress, the majority -- there's a majority
19:26 support still for Ukraine.
19:28 It's just the political dynamics and the Republican extreme wing has been able to take over.
19:33 But that will be the challenge.
19:35 Thank you so far for a great conversation.
19:37 We're going to take a break now.
19:39 And when we come back, is the European economy at risk of being Uber-ized, whatever that
19:45 is?
19:46 That's next on Brussels, My Love.
19:48 Stay with us.
19:57 Welcome back to Brussels, My Love.
19:59 Our guests are still Nicolai Wilunsson, Maria Marti-Schute, and Tomi Houtanen.
20:06 Let's move on to our second topic.
20:08 The Uber-ization of the European economy.
20:12 This week, the European Parliament debated a new directive that includes better protection
20:16 of workers in the gig economy.
20:19 Some of them biked from Paris to Brussels to make their voices heard to join a protest
20:24 in front of the EU Commission headquarters.
20:26 Here, the gig workers also met with members of Parliament fighting for their cause.
20:32 We spoke to one of the union representatives.
20:35 What he had to say about the working conditions in the gig economy in Belgium.
20:41 Some of the conditions are familiar to you.
20:45 These are people you see in the street.
20:46 But there's another issue.
20:47 They're not paid by the hour.
20:48 They're paid by the run.
20:50 They are laborers, like during the 19th century.
20:52 And that has huge implications because all the waiting time is unpaid.
20:55 And the income is very low.
20:56 It depends on the country.
20:57 But in Belgium, it's 5 euros per order, whatever the distance.
21:00 There's also a legal issue regarding the app.
21:02 You can be disconnected overnight.
21:03 So people have very little means of getting back to work, even though it can be their
21:06 only source of income.
21:07 And finally, there's no social protection.
21:09 In Belgium, in February, a delivery man died while making a delivery.
21:12 His family received no money.
21:13 And if he had survived, he might have received 50,000 euros.
21:16 These are appalling conditions.
21:20 So as the gig economy has been growing for quite some time now, so has the attention
21:26 on the poor working conditions of those who labor within it.
21:31 Why did it take so long for the European institutions to regulate this or to tackle this?
21:38 That's a good question because this is fundamental.
21:40 I think this is a fundamental question for the labor market, the future of the labor
21:43 market in Europe.
21:44 Who cannot be working through an app?
21:46 And there's nothing new in the fact that we have new technology.
21:50 And there's nothing new in employers trying to avoid paying the workers a decent salary
21:55 and securing their rights.
21:57 So we are experiencing a hundreds of years long struggle, but we see some very aggressive
22:05 behaviors of Uber and other big platform companies.
22:09 And therefore, it's bad that we have not regulated before, and it's urgent that we regulate now
22:16 in order to secure that all workers have basic workers' rights.
22:21 Yeah, those platforms, obviously, firstly, if the platforms are – they have come, it's
22:27 here to stay, as you know, it's a part of the digital transition as you described.
22:32 But those problems what you just described, those are real.
22:36 There's a lot of – there's millions of people in Europe who in fact are doing employment
22:43 job through these platforms.
22:44 The social conditions and the labor rights are not fully respected.
22:49 So there's a change going on, and there's a lot of positive about that, but we need
22:55 to adapt and fix the problems.
22:57 Maria, did people, did lawmakers and everybody else underestimate the impact and the success
23:06 of these business models at the beginning?
23:09 Well, I think it's a relatively new segment of European economy.
23:12 I think it has been increasing, particularly during the COVID period.
23:15 I think now it's in the realm of 30 million workers within the single market.
23:22 But at the same time, it's hard to measure.
23:26 About 70 to 80 percent of them are non-EU migrant workers.
23:31 Many of them are undocumented.
23:33 So it might be difficult to measure, establish the right benchmarks and criteria.
23:38 Also, these platforms are not based in Brussels.
23:41 I mean, they might have an office here at UBIS in San Francisco.
23:44 You know, it doesn't have a presence per se.
23:46 It might know who the workers are, but they don't really know how they're working,
23:51 how they're running and what the EU law is.
23:54 So I think that it is important that it has come to light and the EU is regulating.
24:01 And I think it will not be the final time that trialings are taking place.
24:06 But I think that at the same time, we need to understand the challenges and realities
24:10 with it because it's still relatively new.
24:12 And like I said, the actual workers that it encompasses are in a rather precarious situation
24:21 and that is not always obvious who they are.
24:23 The CEO of Uber recently said that the European business way is increasingly going to become
24:30 the Uber way.
24:32 And I'm coming right to you.
24:35 If Uber says, in addition to that, we're going to take care of our workers, does that take
24:40 the wind out of the sails of regulators and lawmakers who want to put order in this industry?
24:50 But I think it's all companies, all employers need to secure basic workers' rights.
24:54 It's also about creating a level playing field.
24:56 Like you have an ordinary taxi company having a collective agreement, paying decent wages
25:04 to their workers, securing they have a pension, securing they have help if they come into
25:08 an accident.
25:09 And then you have a company like Uber not paying decent salaries, not giving pension
25:15 rights at all, not helping the workers when they come into an accident.
25:18 Of course, that's not a level playing field for competition.
25:21 So this is both like a question about securing basic workers' rights that is key to having
25:28 an acceptable European project, but also it's also about fairness in the competition.
25:35 So Uber is not playing along the rules and things need to be done about it immediately.
25:41 But that's the task of the legislator, as you said.
25:47 And then you have always the point.
25:50 I agree what you said, but of course this has given now the opportunity for many people
25:54 who before didn't have the possibility to enter to employment to have some kind of income.
25:59 And thirdly, as the study showed, the pie has getting bigger, meaning that a lot of
26:03 people who were not using so often, you know, these transport means or taxi or cars, they
26:09 are now using it.
26:10 So where's the line between giving otherwise marginalized people some earning opportunities
26:18 and exploiting them?
26:20 But I think that's...
26:21 Sorry, I don't want to bring up memory.
26:22 I think you've hurt your finger.
26:25 That's I think the sore point.
26:26 Because indeed, in a way, it's flexibility.
26:28 In a way, we have to ensure that this is self-employed people, they have the flexibility to be employed.
26:33 But at the same time, indeed, I mean, how do we reconcile that with the social protection
26:38 and access to the labor market?
26:40 Because I mean, to tell the truth, many of these migrant workers are earning more than
26:47 they would have in their countries.
26:49 That in a way they have their kids go to school here.
26:51 Okay, they're undocumented, so the kids might not get the diploma when they finish the school.
26:56 But indeed, it's this reciprocity between, you know, what would be the alternative?
27:03 That does not justify not giving social protection rights.
27:07 But I think also if you're a third country national, you deserve workers' rights.
27:11 And I think what we need to ask ourselves is, do we want that in the future you can
27:15 be a taxi driver and actually live from that?
27:18 Do you want that your family can live well?
27:21 Do you want that the restoration sector can...
27:25 Fair point.
27:26 You all made great points, but that's all we have time for on that topic.
27:31 Thanks to our panel here in the studio.
27:33 And thanks for watching.
27:34 See you soon here on Euronews.
27:36 Welcome back to Brussels, my love.
27:46 Our weekly talk show about the week that was pizza, police, taxi.
27:52 What do these words have in common?
27:54 Answer, they all exist in English and French.
27:58 That's a bit of a help for non-French speakers, although it's probably not enough for a full
28:03 conversation.
28:04 Most foreigners prefer English, even inside the EU institutions, turning the language
28:09 of Shakespeare into Globish, or as linguists call it, an endonormative lingua franca.
28:18 This has triggered the anger of France, who wants to see Brussels bureaucrats speak in
28:22 French, especially after Brexit.
28:25 Paris is now attacking the bloc for hiring new employees based on assessments conducted
28:29 in English.
28:31 The French contend that those criteria favor anglophone candidates and have filed two complaints
28:36 before the EU's top court.
28:38 So it's Shakespeare versus Volier.
28:41 Now, where do you come down on this?
28:44 None of us is from France.
28:46 None of us is from Britain.
28:48 So we all come down to this.
28:50 I think we all love France, of course.
28:52 But the reality after the enlargement of Central and Eastern Europe, the balance changed, you
28:57 know, and as from north, where the France is not the used language.
29:02 And I think that the English kind of creates a little bit playing field, actually, especially
29:07 now when UK is not the member.
29:08 So we all have the same challenges, more or less.
29:12 Maria.
29:13 Well, I think that this French move is rather exaggerated.
29:17 I think there are other ways to promote Frenchness and French language, especially through cultural
29:21 diplomacy.
29:22 But, you know, I think this is how, you know, French being French, this is usually, knowing
29:29 their history and background, this is usually how they react or overreact.
29:33 And you know, this is just how they are.
29:36 And I think this is one of the beauty of the diversity.
29:39 So but it is.
29:40 But after the French presidency, everything was in front in French only, right?
29:44 You know, preparation papers.
29:46 And we understood it.
29:47 We understood it.
29:48 Nicolas, do you speak French?
29:49 Yes, a little.
29:51 Some.
29:52 I was a waiter in Paris many years ago, so I learned the hard way.
29:59 But many funny stories about me not understanding what people were ordering.
30:03 But anyways, I think French is a beautiful language.
30:06 But the reality is that people speak English and we need to adapt to that reality.
30:11 And I think the multilingualism of the EU is a fundamental democratic principle to make
30:17 sure that you can be an MEP and not be a high academic professor.
30:24 But they're ordinary citizens as well.
30:26 But but I've honestly like I also accept that people don't speak Danish and and and that's
30:31 OK.
30:32 And it's outrageous.
30:33 Yeah.
30:34 And on that note, you know, I mean, there are a lot of member states that do not necessarily,
30:39 you know, have French, German or English, which are the three core languages.
30:43 So we might actually ask perhaps it could be a fourth or fifth language, you know, whether
30:46 more from the south or perhaps more from the north, which would also reflect the equal
30:51 treatment of diversity.
30:52 I'm glad you mentioned it because, you know, the top language by by speakers in the European
30:58 Union is not French.
30:59 It's German.
31:00 Actually, there are more German speakers than French speakers.
31:03 And if the French are trying to, you know, speak up French, but it's not the first language
31:09 in the world.
31:10 This this train left the station more than 150 years ago.
31:13 Right.
31:15 And I think Tommy has a good point, like none of us are like our native English speakers,
31:21 the Irish, but they also have Gaelic.
31:24 So I think that in a way we have a bit of a level playing field that we all all doing
31:28 our Danglish and or whatever that like you do in Finland or Lithuania and so on.
31:35 And I think that's that's the reality.
31:38 And of course, there's also politics into this, probably in the French internal.
31:42 Yeah, I think that, you know, it's a little bit lost battle for them.
31:45 We totally understand them.
31:46 The history, as Maria said, but it's a lost battle if you nowadays have meetings, it's
31:51 either English or then six languages and or every language, as you as you mentioned, but
31:56 never English and French.
31:57 Merci beaucoup à tout le monde.
31:59 De rien, de rien.
32:00 Merci beaucoup.
32:01 We always love to learn Danish.
32:02 That does it for us today on Brussels, my love.
32:04 I'd like to thank our guests for their insights and our audience for watching.
32:09 And if you want to reach out to us, you can send us a note to Brussels, my love, at Euronews.com
32:15 with comments or ideas or contact us on social media.
32:19 I'm Stefan Grobus.
32:20 You soon here on Euronews and Euronews.com.
32:24 Thank you very much.
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