In an interview with CNN's Manu Raju, Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) reflected on his ouster from the Speakership, and repeated a claim that Speaker Emerita Pelosi told him that Democrats would never allow a motion to vacate to happen prior to his taking the position.
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00:00 Tell me what it's been like. I mean, you know, you went from being Speaker of the House.
00:05 What's been this adjustment been like to now being a rank and file member?
00:08 Well, it's different. You're always able to serve and it's a little different. You're
00:12 not always going to just be rank and file. In the process, you know the system. It's
00:15 a little harder. You want to make other decisions, but I mean, unfortunately, eight Republicans
00:20 worked with all Democrats, disrupt, and now we're in a different situation.
00:24 How much do you miss it?
00:25 Well, it hasn't been gone that long, but like anything else, I want to be at the table with
00:31 whatever we're doing.
00:32 Can you reflect about that episode and how frustrating that was going through that?
00:36 I would do the exact same thing again. To keep our government open, to fund our troops.
00:42 Think about those in the Mediterranean today. If those troops were worried about could they
00:46 make their rent payment, their car payment? I mean, it was the right thing to do. Unfortunately,
00:51 we had never seen it in the past that eight Republicans would join. I think it's more
00:56 personal. If the ethics committee never does anything to Gates, then Gates was successful
01:01 in stopping probably what rightfully should come to him. But going through the three weeks
01:05 and then taking down a Steve Scalise, a Jim Jordan, a Tom Emmer, all people who are really
01:12 prepared to do the job, that was frustrating for me.
01:16 Those eight members who you referred to as the crazy eights and the like, after they
01:22 elected Speaker Johnson, they were crowing about this. What did you think about that?
01:28 Well, just from a serious point of understanding governing, look, I'm a conservative who loves
01:35 to govern. I don't believe them to be conservatives. There's a different rationale. It's driven
01:42 by Gates who it was all based upon an ethics complaint that happened in the last Congress.
01:48 He would throw his country away to try to protect himself from what would come out as
01:51 the truth. For those others to go along, I don't quite understand. Think of the successes
01:56 that we had, the commitment to America to win the majority. I mean, I've been leader
02:02 for five years. Two election cycles we never lost. The Republicans in the Senate lost both
02:08 cycles, the governors, the legislatures, the president. So we've had a lot of great success.
02:12 The Parents' Bill of Rights, the Border Security Bill. You haven't done something like that
02:17 with Republicans since Ronald Reagan. So we had major successes. This is more about a
02:22 personality.
02:23 So you've been mentioning surprise that these folks went along with Mad Kids. Who surprised
02:28 you the most out of those eight?
02:31 The eight, I think the two that were really different than all the others were Tim Burchett
02:37 and Nancy Mace. The others hadn't voted for me before anyways. They were disruptors the
02:43 whole time.
02:44 What about them surprised you, Burchett and Mace?
02:47 It just didn't, it seemed out of nature, but they seemed to have changed during the time.
02:51 They care a lot about press, not about policy. So they seem to just want the press and the
02:56 personality.
02:58 Do you think Mace will have a difficult time winning re-election now?
03:01 Yeah. Well, not because of this. I mean, if you've watched her, just her philosophy and
03:06 the flip-flopping, I don't believe she wins re-election.
03:11 You don't?
03:12 No.
03:13 Will you try to oppose her?
03:14 No. Look, I worked hard. I spent $6 million helping her get elected. I supported her in
03:19 her primary. Just from a basis of watching someone on the job that they do, I don't think
03:25 she'll probably have earned the right to get re-elected.
03:27 You had a really good relationship with Hakeem Jeffries, and then the motion to vacate happened.
03:34 Do you still have a good relationship with him?
03:36 No, he hasn't talked to me since then. Look, at the end of the day, the Democrats decided
03:40 to make a political decision. I mean, if I go back, Nancy Pelosi told me even before,
03:47 sometime I believe it was in December before I was elected, I still remember having problems
03:51 with getting the votes, which she did as well. And I told her the issue was bringing back
03:58 this motion to vacate. First thing she said, "Just give it to him. Just give it to him.
04:01 We'd never allow that. It's not good for the House."
04:04 Matt Gaetz, you've been mentioning a lot. How much would the Republican Party benefit
04:08 if he were no longer a member of the House, in your opinion?
04:12 Oh, tremendously. I mean, people have to earn the right to be here. And I just think from,
04:18 I mean, he'll admit to you personally, he doesn't have a conservative bent in his philosophy,
04:25 and just the nature of what he focuses on.
04:27 Do you think the House GOP should consider expelling him?
04:32 That's up to the conference. But I mean, I don't believe the conference will ever heal
04:35 if there's no consequences for the action.
04:37 I mean, does it concern you that Speaker Johnson doesn't seem to be going in that direction?
04:41 Well, that's a question for Speaker Johnson. I don't know if they made any deal for the
04:44 vote or anything like that. I don't believe so. But I'll let the ethics do their work.
04:49 Looking back at it, could you have dealt with the Freedom Caucus types differently? Would
04:53 it have resulted in any different scenario if you changed your approach in any way with
04:57 them?
04:58 Look, you cover this place and you know these personalities better than ever. You watch
05:01 the 15 rounds, most of the questions you would ask me after I won, would I survive the next
05:06 week? So we all knew this would happen. You just didn't think they would do it based upon
05:12 such a dumb idea of keeping our troops being paid. It was not about policy. It wasn't about
05:17 anything else than personality and trying to protect one person from the ethics committee.
05:22 You mentioned you think you guys will gain seats next year. But what about just what
05:26 happened on Tuesday? Do you have concerns about your party's message on, say, abortion
05:31 and need to change your message as heading into next year?
05:35 Look, abortion matters in these elections. It mattered in the last election. But let's
05:39 just go through that. What happened last Tuesday? What happened in Long Island? Republicans
05:44 gained Democratic area. Well, that's key to our majority. So that makes those who they
05:49 want to go after stronger. In Virginia, you say, oh, Republicans lost the statehouse.
05:54 Well, those were new lines they were running in. So they really only lost one seat in the
05:58 process. If you look at the abortion issue was on the ballot in the last election. Well,
06:05 why did we pick up seats in California and New York? Those are the most liberal states
06:09 there were. So I'm not saying it's not. It's a big issue and Republicans have to learn
06:14 how to deal with it.
06:15 So you don't think that you guys had a bad night on Tuesday?
06:17 No, we had a bad night, but you learn from it. Now, let's go in a year from now. Biden's
06:22 numbers are worse today than at any time. I believe President Biden's biggest problem
06:27 is a problem he can't fix. It's about his age. Now, the question will be, is he on the
06:32 ticket or not? That's what Democrats are talking about right now. That's a really bad place
06:37 to be.
06:38 Let me ask you this. Is Trump the strongest candidate for your party?
06:42 Well, Trump is going to be the nominee. Okay. And I think-
06:46 Do you support him?
06:47 Yes, I will support him.
06:48 Do you support him right now in the primary?
06:51 I haven't endorsed, but I support President Trump.
06:53 But what's the difference?
06:55 Well, I haven't made some official endorsement.
06:58 Are you worried that all those legal problems can make him a bad candidate for your party
07:02 next year?
07:04 In most candidates, you would worry about things like that. If you watch, President
07:08 Trump has been able to find anything in the past. And I don't believe when you evaluate
07:15 or you ask Americans the question, is it fair that you're putting Trump in court? Overwhelmingly,
07:22 people say no.
07:23 Even general election voters, you don't think it'll hurt him with the suburban voters and
07:26 the like?
07:27 Would it hurt a little? It could hurt a little, but Biden's in a worse situation, right? You
07:32 have every swing state except one where President Trump is beating Biden and he's sitting in
07:39 court. He hasn't really been able to campaign as hard.
07:42 [BLANK_AUDIO]