IR Interview: Chad Stahelski For "John Wick - Chapter 4" (Awards Track) [Lionsgate] - Part II
Director Chad Stahelski talks to Awards Track about expectation, visual style, reference to cinema history and intent in regards to his film: “John Wick - Chapter 4”.
Category
🎥
Short filmTranscript
00:00 [SCREAMING]
00:02 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:04 I want you to find your peace.
00:20 But a good death only comes after a good life.
00:29 You and I left a good life behind a long time ago,
00:32 my friend.
00:33 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:36 But it's also subverting--
00:46 when you talk about subversion, taking expectation.
00:49 Because obviously, the more it went on,
00:52 people expect certain things.
00:53 But it's almost subverting the expectation with humor
00:57 and using those moments.
00:58 And obviously, that becomes an instinct.
01:00 You can see it on day.
01:02 Obviously, the stare scene, that works undeniably
01:05 because of that.
01:08 But can you talk about that, subverting expectations
01:11 through humor, too, within the scene?
01:13 Yeah, well, we always said, look,
01:15 Keanu and everybody on screen thinks it's real.
01:18 Us, behind the camera, we know it's fan--
01:21 we're in "Lord of the Rings" land, which--
01:23 it's a modern-day fan.
01:25 But if the characters believe what they're doing,
01:27 that gives us the out.
01:28 And I try not to go into any kind of talks
01:32 about violence and action and action and violence.
01:34 But I'm an anime fan.
01:37 I appreciate anime, no matter how crazy or violent
01:41 or subversive or sexual or anything like that,
01:44 because I love the art form of it.
01:45 I love manga.
01:46 So I'm not offended by anything.
01:47 I know it's an art form that stretches--
01:49 what kind of thing, but at the end of the day, it's an art
01:51 form, and I appreciate that.
01:54 But as a director, for our first go anyways--
01:57 and this is not my overall viewpoint--
01:59 but for the John Wicks, we wanted
02:01 to create that graphic novel sensibility
02:03 with that little hard-boiled feel
02:04 that you get from a John Woo film or something like that
02:08 and how to really portray it.
02:09 And I always find, again, on our board of things not to do,
02:13 don't do goofy humor.
02:14 Don't laugh at the expense of character.
02:18 And Keanu-- John Wick doesn't think any of this is funny.
02:21 But what he does is pretty like-- he
02:23 thinks kicking people with a horse is just that survival.
02:26 He's not in on the joke.
02:27 And that's why it works.
02:28 That's why it works.
02:29 Nobody on screen is in on the joke.
02:31 That's our first rule.
02:32 However, everyone not on screen is in on the joke.
02:36 We know it's ridiculous to beat people up with horses.
02:38 I know having a third act where I have Halle Berry's "Two Dogs
02:41 Bite" crotches for 20 minutes is ridiculous.
02:44 I know that "222 Steps" is ridiculous.
02:47 I'm in on the gag, and I want you guys to be in the gag.
02:50 And I think that was always the genius of Harold Lloyd
02:52 and Buster Keaton is Buster Keaton
02:56 never cracked a smile.
02:57 He was just like, this is just-- oh my god,
02:59 this isn't bothering.
03:01 This isn't funny to me.
03:02 Whereas some of the other side film stars
03:03 were kind of-- they're kind of wink, wink, nudge, nudge,
03:05 and yeah.
03:05 I like the ones that weren't-- like Harold Lloyd hanging
03:07 from that clock tower was not wink, wink, nudge, nudge,
03:10 and yeah.
03:10 He was like shit in his pants.
03:12 And I think that's kind of the fun part.
03:15 This hit goes out to you, Mr. Wick.
03:20 [MUSIC - THE KING, "GOT YOURSELF A GUN"]
03:22 42 regular, wasn't it?
03:24 Yeah.
03:27 And so it begins.
03:28 Challenger to single combat.
03:40 If you win, you'll have your freedom.
03:42 Amen.
03:47 [MUSIC - THE KING, "GOT YOURSELF A GUN"]
03:50 The reason why all the small moments work--
03:57 the reason the big moments work is because those--
04:00 of the small moments, like at the table,
04:02 the anticipation of it is so much more sometimes.
04:06 I mean, even-- I was trying to think about the one
04:10 like with Donnie Yen when he's sitting on the steps.
04:14 It's a beautiful thing because it's about taking a breath.
04:17 And you guys know how to do that now because you know
04:20 this world inside and out.
04:22 Is it about trying to figure out that cadence in the edit?
04:25 Or do you find it out on set with that kind of thing?
04:29 A little of both, Tim.
04:31 I think when we see it--
04:32 like I'm a very visual guy, so I'm reading--
04:36 my writers will hate me.
04:39 I pay very little credence to the rhythm in a script.
04:42 I love having the scene in there,
04:44 but I see it very differently usually than it's written.
04:48 I see the breaks.
04:49 I see the-- when you read, you just read.
04:51 But I can almost--
04:52 I guess I think Keanu's a lot like this, too.
04:54 We can almost hear the--
04:55 [SIGHS]
04:57 --on the pages.
04:58 We know when we--
04:59 in my head, I know when I'm going
05:00 to be just on Keanu's eyeball.
05:03 I know when I'm going to cut away to that sunrise
05:05 a little bit more.
05:06 So there's a lot--
05:07 Does he love the close-ups?
05:08 Does he love the close-ups, Chad?
05:09 Or what's his thought on that versus yours?
05:12 No, he's-- he knows--
05:14 I was just saying this last week when
05:17 we were talking about Keanu.
05:20 He kind of wraps himself in--
05:22 like, he sees now--
05:24 three movies later or four movies later--
05:26 he sees what I like, and he knows where I'm going to--
05:29 like, he's studied the WICs.
05:30 He knows my cinematic language.
05:32 When I have something to say, when
05:33 I know it's going to be a great moment,
05:34 I'm going to have his eye come out of shadow,
05:36 and you're going to see that.
05:37 He's kind of got it.
05:39 So when he hears me, OK, put the 90 out of Morphic God,
05:41 he kind of knows, oh, this is eyebrows-y, right?
05:45 He's very good at putting that in and goes--
05:48 and he's very collaborative.
05:50 Remember, he's directed a film himself.
05:53 So he's very versed in directing.
05:55 And he knows, like, OK, is this-- and we talk,
05:57 he's like, what are you-- and he sees the big-- well, OK,
05:59 this is a lonely man shot.
06:00 This is where I have to act with stillness.
06:03 He knows how much I love Kurosawa
06:05 and when stillness matters and when subtleties and how to--
06:10 it's like stage acting, right?
06:11 You have to show the audience what you're feeling.
06:13 You can't just tell them.
06:14 [MUSIC PLAYING]
06:18 [CRASH]
06:19 [TIRES SCREECHING]
06:22 [MUSIC PLAYING]
06:26 [GRUNT]
06:27 [TIRES SCREECHING]
06:30 [MUSIC PLAYING]
06:33 [TIRES SCREECHING]
06:46 [CRASH]
06:47 Well, to your point, I think I can get away
06:50 with a lot of stuff.
06:51 And I think the audience is in with you.
06:53 If you can find what you had talked about earlier,
06:56 that little bit of pacing.
06:58 Like, when you-- number one and number two
07:01 are the trickiest for me.
07:02 Because now we're kind of expanding--
07:03 I'm trying to push, see what you'll put up with.
07:06 How many times can I shoot him?
07:07 That's why we put the bulletproof suits in.
07:09 How far can I push this before I jump the shark, literally,
07:11 right?
07:13 So by four, you're kind of-- everybody's expecting, John.
07:16 OK, now we're in the--
07:17 you go to a theater to see a John Wick movie.
07:19 There's a certain level, OK, now there's--
07:22 I'm going to suspend disbelief a little bit.
07:24 So like, Ian McShane walking into the loo.
07:27 If I had cut 10 seconds out of that, wouldn't have been funny.
07:30 It just would have been a long walk.
07:32 If I had done two more minutes of it, you'd have been like,
07:35 OK, now he's just [BLEEP] this.
07:36 So you find that walk where you're just like, OK.
07:40 And then I let you know I'm messing with you.
07:42 And everybody laughs.
07:43 It's like, you can fall down the stairs 100 steps.
07:47 That'd be pretty cool.
07:49 150 is like, whoa.
07:51 200 is like, OK, now we're all in-- now
07:54 there's no mistaking it.
07:55 We're all in on the joke.
07:56 We're having fun.
07:57 To find that, yeah, it's a little tricky.
07:59 But I think that's what allows-- like, you know,
08:01 you can have that crazy knife fight
08:03 if you accent it with the tomahawk at the end.
08:05 You can have that crazy stair fight when people get, oh,
08:09 it's Sisyphus.
08:10 We're in on the joke.
08:11 We all get it.
08:12 OK, ha ha, that was clever.
08:14 You set me up.
08:15 You got me.
08:16 And I think that's what's fun about the Wicks
08:18 is we can do that because it is our universe.
08:20 [MUSIC PLAYING]
08:23 Bonjour, Monsieur Wick.
08:39 And welcome to La Resistance.
08:42 A little far from home, aren't you?
08:44 Well, your little act of uncivil disobedience
08:47 inspired me, John.
08:49 I'm branching out, spreading my wings.
08:52 How goes the Grand Farewell Tour?
08:56 Coming to an end.
08:59 So it seems, so it seems.
09:02 42 regular, wasn't it?
09:05 It's Kevlar front to back, the latest in ballistic chic.
09:09 Appropriate for all formal occasions, weddings, funerals,
09:12 high table duels.
09:14 After all, a man has to look his best when it's
09:16 time to get married or buried.
09:19 And that leads to my last question.
09:21 Thank you, Chad.
09:21 Well, because the thing is, you were
09:23 talking about Buster Keaton.
09:24 You were talking about-- well, we talk about Chaplin.
09:26 But we talk about Eisenstein.
09:28 We talk about the Temkin, obviously the stairs.
09:31 There's so many things.
09:32 And it's interesting to be going down light,
09:35 when we look back on one through four at this point,
09:39 you can see those things, that sort of timeless quality
09:43 of it, the brutality.
09:44 Some always tell you about the intimacy of brutality.
09:46 And this brought that back to the forefront.
09:48 But if you look back into Kubrick's past with some of it,
09:51 you see that as well.
09:54 Now that you've had--
09:56 you guys are in the middle of all this stuff.
09:57 But it's a reflection of film history.
10:00 And you guys are now part of that.
10:02 I mean, obviously, you were a part of it before.
10:05 You just put that better than I ever could.
10:08 Like, look, I'm just another link in the chain.
10:13 We're reflecting the last 50 years of films
10:18 that I've watched, or my 50 years on this planet,
10:23 combined with the other 50 before that.
10:25 I'm sure someone as versed as you, you see it.
10:29 You can see those little hints of reflections.
10:31 And you can see a little Bertolucci in number two.
10:33 You can see Tarkovsky or the angst to be something.
10:36 You can see a little Tarantino in the humor.
10:38 You can see a shit ton of John Woo.
10:41 You can see all this great little odes
10:43 to Bullitt or Walter Hill or any of them.
10:48 Which you guys loved.
10:48 That's what you guys loved.
10:49 Exactly.
10:50 So when I say the John Wicks were meant to be a love letter,
10:52 we didn't shy from that.
10:54 Like, that would have been a mistake.
10:55 We tried to make movies.
10:57 And you've seen people try to make a movie out of the sequel.
11:01 And they miss the original formula.
11:03 Like, look, John Wick was supposed to be a goof.
11:05 It's supposed to be a gag.
11:06 It's supposed to be a tribute.
11:07 It's supposed to be a list of a couple of guys
11:10 that love action movies putting their interests on screen.
11:14 We had a chance.
11:15 We did have a version of all the movies
11:17 that are actual movies.
11:19 I think they would have bored you to death.
11:21 You got to have emotional content.
11:22 He's got to save this brother thing.
11:24 Look, we're having a go.
11:25 And we're just trying to do it in an interesting way.
11:27 Like, do I love the idea of brotherhood?
11:29 Do I love the idea of at least some sense of Bushido
11:32 or chivalry?
11:33 Do I love that knowledge really is power?
11:35 Do I have all these beliefs and love?
11:38 Yeah.
11:38 Do I think you should make something beautiful?
11:40 Am I very niche?
11:41 Yes, I am.
11:42 Do I love Musashi?
11:43 Yes, I do.
11:44 Do I read Art of War?
11:45 Yes, I do.
11:45 But I'm not going to preach that.
11:47 So I get to do it in the coolest way possible.
11:49 I have this crazy, kooky, world-building action movie
11:53 where I shoot 300 people in the head.
11:56 But at the end of it, what do we really love?
11:59 We love this idea of frenemies.
12:01 We love this idea of brotherhood.
12:02 We love this idea of markers and owning to your word
12:06 and being something more and believing in fate and choice
12:09 and trying to be artsy at the same time.
12:11 So it's kind of given us this great little palette to mix.
12:14 But at the end of the day, it's a big picture, right?
12:18 And it's reflecting everything that I love.
12:20 [MUSIC - "BUSHIDO"]
12:22 You got yourself, yourself, yourself.
12:26 Many try, many die, but you want to walk.
12:28 Get it bloody.
12:30 You won't have this moment.
12:34 Step up on your ego.
12:36 Come on.
12:38 The only way John Wick will ever have freedom and peace
12:45 is in death.
12:46 Yeah, not really.
12:51 [MUSIC - "BUSHIDO"]
12:54 Yeah, oh, yeah, oh, oh.
13:01 If you and I sat down for 20 minutes,
13:05 you and I would compose this list, right?
13:07 You'd give me the 10 favorite films.
13:09 Like, give me one of your favorite films.
13:11 What's one of your favorites?
13:13 One that comes to mind, you'll probably
13:14 think this is a funny joke, Popeye, by all means.
13:17 So we get Robin Williams in Popeye, right?
13:20 Yeah.
13:21 And we'll do the Bluto scene.
13:22 And I guarantee you in the next John Wick, just for you,
13:25 I'll put a can of spinach somewhere.
13:28 But that's the fun stuff that people--
13:30 if you go back and read all the graffiti in any of the John
13:32 Wicks and you really interpreted it,
13:34 you would find out a lot about the filmmakers and the crew.
13:36 I always put stuff in the graffiti.
13:38 We would come up with some plot.
13:40 I would do something with Popeye,
13:41 or we'd get this reference to--
13:43 I'm like, that was Altman.
13:47 That was Altman making something that you would never expect.
13:50 And that's what-- the subversiveness of that,
13:52 that's why I thought that was interesting.
13:54 But it's weird that that's the first one that came to my head.
13:56 No, but see, there's something that clicks.
13:58 So that's what works for us.
13:59 So imagine your first go at directing being--
14:06 or being able to reflect everything you love
14:09 and put that on.
14:10 And people go, oh my god, it's genius.
14:11 You love it.
14:12 You're just kind of like, all I was doing is just--
14:15 I don't geek it out with other people that
14:16 geek out over the same stuff.
14:18 So yeah.
14:21 Yeah, the real challenge is to be a director on my next--
14:26 whatever's next, then you're going
14:27 to know if I kind of know what I'm talking about.
14:29 Like for me, the John Wick's are just love letters.
14:31 So they're very easy.
14:32 They come very naturally.
14:34 It's just about making the next one just bring the same love.
14:37 And you have all the experience to do it.
14:39 So well, I can't wait to see whatever that is.
14:41 I have an idea.
14:42 I'm not going to ask you about it.
14:43 But thank you very much, Chad.
14:44 It's always great talking to you.
14:46 Just after this one, it's sort of great to talk to you
14:49 after you've had some time to think about it.
14:51 Because every experience makes us what we are
14:55 and what we're going to be.
14:56 So really appreciate it.
14:57 [MUSIC - "BLACK SHEEP"]
14:58 Please pray for me.
15:01 I was the black sheep of the family.
15:05 Man has to look his best when it's time to get married.
15:08 Or buried.
15:10 I'm going to need a gun.
15:12 Goodbye, my friend.
15:13 It's hard to run.
15:14 [MUSIC - "BLACK SHEEP"]
15:18 If you win, the table will honor its word.
15:28 You'll have your freedom.
15:31 It's hard to run.
15:35 Under the old laws, only one can survive.
15:38 Failure to meet its sunrise.
15:40 It's hard to run.
15:42 The result, an execution.
15:43 Last words, Winston?
15:49 Just have fun out there.
15:50 [LAUGHTER]
15:51 [MUSIC - "BLACK SHEEP"]
15:55 [SCREAMING]
15:57 [MUSIC PLAYING]
16:01 [SCREAMING]
16:04 (dramatic music)