This week we bring you a special interview with Sheffield Wednesday assistant coach Chris Powell.
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00:00 Welcome to the latest episode of Everything But The Prem.
00:04 A lot of league football was paused this week because of the international break.
00:08 So today we're bringing you something a little bit different.
00:11 We know you love the analysis and the opinions of the best of National World Football writers,
00:15 but what about the men and the women that make it all happen every week?
00:19 Kicking off a brand new feature and one we'll bring you a lot more of throughout the season,
00:23 we have an in-depth interview with a highly respected coach in Chris Powell
00:27 and there's plenty for us to go on.
00:30 Over 600 appearances as a player and showing the leadership qualities
00:33 has suggested it was natural that he would move into coaching.
00:37 Chris has managed at Charlton, Huddersfield and Southend,
00:40 as well as having coached at Derby, Leicester, Tottenham and with England.
00:45 Nowadays you'll find him on the sidelines of Sheffield Wednesday
00:48 after being brought in by new boss Danny Rowe as a first team coach at Hillsborough.
00:53 Recently Sheffield star Drew Cran sat down with Chris to discuss how he came to be at Wednesday,
00:59 his coaching philosophy, working with some of England's brightest and best young talents
01:04 alongside Gareth Southgate and the part he played in helping Ted Lasso
01:09 in one of the biggest TV success stories of the past decade.
01:13 This is Everything But The Prem.
01:21 Is it something that you prefer?
01:23 Some managers always go 'I want to be a manager'
01:26 because there's the element of some like to coach, some like to be only involved in the football side of things.
01:31 Have you got a preference on what you actually prefer?
01:34 No, it's a great question because a lot of people say that to me.
01:37 I suppose I had an itch to scratch at the end of my career that I wanted to manage
01:44 and people talk about black managers and what have you
01:48 and I suppose I wanted to do it. I was encouraged by Nigel Pearson who was my last manager
01:56 and Alan Pardew, Alan Kirbyshley sort of said 'you could coach, you could manage'.
02:03 So I wanted to do it and at Charlton, successful in the main, won League One,
02:10 stayed in the Championship but then things always, it's football, things go awry,
02:17 people have different ideas, they want different people in charge, that's the game.
02:21 I suppose you're angry at the start but as you get older and wiser you kind of go a bit immune to it.
02:29 It happens, it's almost like death and taxes I suppose that it's going to happen.
02:35 So I think what you've got to do is be remembered, leave a bit of a legacy if you can
02:41 and I managed at Charlton, Huddersfield, South End and you learn from a lot of those things,
02:50 whether they were good, bad or indifferent.
02:53 But then I'm a football man, I've been assistant twice at Derby, over in Holland
03:02 and I was in the academy I suppose the last three years.
03:06 I like football, I love football, I like to develop people, whether they're coaches,
03:11 whether they're players, whether they're young players.
03:14 I like people to improve, I like to lend my experience, can I create a good environment,
03:20 a good learning environment.
03:22 I like to look out for people, staff and players and I love the game.
03:28 So I understand some people are built to just be a manager,
03:33 I don't think I'm going to manage anymore, highly unlikely, I suppose you never say never.
03:39 But I suppose now I don't really enjoy that side of things, what I'd like to do,
03:45 especially with someone like Danny coming over and that was one of the draws.
03:49 He wanted someone who knew the championship and managed there and knows the British game
03:57 to help him. Coaching skills are transferable regardless of what country you're in
04:04 and I've seen that straight away with Danny, with Henrik, with Sascha.
04:08 But quite clearly sometimes you need an understanding of your position,
04:13 of traditions, of what the do's and don'ts, maybe what the players would like,
04:18 maybe what they might not like, what would work and make it a more tighter ship.
04:25 And I think we're getting that.
04:28 So I'm happy being in the game, whether I'm watching, coaching, managing, advising,
04:37 the game is for me and I'm quite happy in the role I'm doing right now.
04:43 In this job specifically, obviously Danny never played, his career cut short,
04:48 in fact he's only a year older than me, but are you almost like a conduit in this set-up?
04:54 Because you've played at the top level and you've got a lot of players here
04:58 who have played in the Premier League or Championship or whatever,
05:01 are you almost like a conduit between the manager and the players?
05:05 There's a bit of that, yeah, there's definitely a bit of that.
05:08 Obviously because I've worked the last three years with England,
05:14 that obviously helps me get a buy-in really from other players.
05:20 I think having Tom over with us, he knows the club, he knows how it works,
05:25 he knows a lot of the boys, that helps again.
05:29 But then also you look at Danny's experiences, they're really good.
05:34 Bayern Munich, Germany, Southampton.
05:37 So yeah, I mean those guys are exceptional.
05:42 But you want these guys here at Sheffield Wednesday to aspire,
05:46 especially the young ones, you want them to aspire to as high as they can get to.
05:52 Equally the experienced players leave a legacy,
05:57 because your career goes by in a flash, it really does.
06:02 I mean I played for 24 years until I was 40,
06:06 but it kind of just passed me by thinking back now.
06:11 And I just want these guys to enjoy their careers, enjoy what's in front of them,
06:17 because you feel like you can play forever, but you don't.
06:21 So actually what's important is that you understand that the time is now.
06:28 At Sheffield Wednesday I spoke to the players after Plymouth,
06:33 and I just said to them, 'Actually, if you think about it,
06:38 we have a chance to show people that actually where we are now,
06:44 we can move forward, and wouldn't it be great if you look back in a few years' time
06:51 that you achieved something when everyone thought you'd written off?'
06:55 It's going to be hard. We're going to get punches in the stomach along the rest of the season.
07:02 We really will. And we might not get out of where we are.
07:06 That's a fact. But actually, go out fighting.
07:11 Go out showing people you care.
07:13 And I see that in this group. I sense it in this group that they can do that.
07:20 Will we need a bit of luck along the way? Absolutely.
07:23 Will we need things to go our way at times? Yeah.
07:27 Will things go against us? Yeah.
07:30 But I think actually what made me actually turn was the fans after Plymouth
07:40 and during the second half. I was sitting there thinking,
07:44 'They're singing their heads off. We're losing 3-0.'
07:48 So actually the belief is this is our club, we're proud of our club.
07:51 It doesn't matter what happens.
07:53 So actually why don't we use that to our advantage?
07:57 Why don't we use the energy from the fans and give them the energy from the field
08:03 and sometimes off it?
08:05 And I think that can be a driving force for us going forward.
08:09 It won't be easy. There's some really good teams in this league that have spent good money,
08:14 got squads that are almost built for the Premier League.
08:18 We know where we're at. We understand it.
08:21 But we're going to get on with it. Simple. That's a fact.
08:24 And we'll be ready each and every game.
08:26 You mentioned the fans there. You mentioned that you had experience with Nigel Pearson.
08:31 I'm sure there were a few former Wednesday players that you've known over the years.
08:35 Did you get in touch with any of them before you came through and asked a few questions?
08:39 Yeah, I spoke to Nigel. He still lives in the area.
08:45 He gave me a real good insight into the area, into the people.
08:52 He said I can stop there if I want every now and then.
08:56 But no, I've kind of known about Sheffield and how proud the city is.
09:06 But I got a good insight into the place.
09:12 But the people I know that played here played here many years ago.
09:17 I was thinking that might not help me, but I did a bit of homework.
09:23 I'm glad that I've made the decision.
09:26 Going back to that crossfire incident, did you think when you were alive,
09:31 you'd think, "Oh, I'm going to get a bit of stick for that"?
09:33 Oh, I knew straight away.
09:36 And obviously, I know the fans don't want to hear it,
09:39 but we stopped to Sheffield derby in the quarter-final,
09:43 because we played Sheffield United next round and lost, which wasn't great.
09:50 But we kind of knew that everyone wanted the Sheffield derby, and I get it.
09:57 I think we played on a Saturday, beat QPR, Charlton,
10:02 and then travelled here to Sunday, and it was a Monday night.
10:05 A lot of the Charlton fans got stopped on the motorway
10:09 and missed quite a lot of the game.
10:11 They got in at the end, and I suppose I got carried away.
10:17 Great picture. Whoever took that picture, I've got to say, great.
10:20 Because they caught me. I didn't stay up there long.
10:22 It looks like I'm up there and doing pull-ups and whatever,
10:28 but I was up there briefly. I lost the moment, I suppose.
10:33 There's nothing wrong with that.
10:34 If your team's won, you've got to enjoy the moment.
10:37 Definitely, like we did last Sunday, let's hope we've got many more to come.
10:42 You've seen Hillsborough and Vault as well.
10:45 Knowing that history of the club, you know when Danny makes that call
10:50 and says, "Look, I might be going to Sheffield United,
10:52 "do you want to come join me?"
10:53 Does that play a big part in your decision?
10:55 Yeah, regardless of the position we're in,
11:00 I think you always look at the stature of a football club
11:05 and what it means to the people.
11:09 You know the support's going to be there.
11:11 It's even taken me aback a little bit.
11:17 Seeing 29,000, I know it's a local derby,
11:19 so maybe there's a few more away fans,
11:23 but I didn't see too many blue suits, spare.
11:28 I'm thinking, "Well, imagine you just get it just right.
11:32 "Just imagine." I know the fans must always think that.
11:36 But we've got to think that.
11:38 We can't think any other way other than positive and being the best.
11:43 Join us after the break where Joe will talk to Chris Powell
11:46 about his time working on American Hideo Ted Lasso.
11:53 Welcome back to Everything But The Prem.
11:56 We join back with Joe Cran alongside Chris Powell
11:59 as he discusses his time working in TV and in coaching.
12:04 You've worked with some of the best English players
12:06 that we've seen in decades.
12:08 Yeah.
12:09 And you've had a lot of experience with them.
12:11 How do you feel about that?
12:13 I think it's a great opportunity to get to know them
12:16 and get to know the players.
12:18 The best English players that we've seen in decades.
12:21 Yeah.
12:22 What do you take from them?
12:24 You have Harry Kane, Jude Bellingham.
12:26 When you transfer from that to Chelsea after Wednesday,
12:30 what sort of lessons do you take from working with those characters?
12:32 It's a good question because it's quite hard
12:36 to have them alongside each other
12:39 because quite obviously they are the cream.
12:42 There's levels.
12:43 Jude Bellingham goes from Madrid
12:45 as if he's just gone to his local Sunday team.
12:48 I mean it's uncanny what he's doing
12:51 but it doesn't surprise me
12:53 and a lot of people that work with him
12:55 because we just know his understanding of the game.
12:59 He's very well balanced.
13:00 He's been brought up brilliantly
13:02 both personally in our family
13:05 and at Birmingham and Dortmund.
13:08 I suppose all you can ever say to our guys
13:13 is why don't you strive to be like that?
13:16 Be as good as you can be.
13:19 Behaviours on and off the field are massive.
13:23 The way you treat people is massive.
13:25 The way you play and interact with your teammates,
13:31 with the staff is huge.
13:33 Why don't you develop a learning?
13:35 Because actually we've got some good young players here.
13:39 Why don't you strive to be in the high leagues?
13:43 Why not?
13:44 Because if you don't set the bar high,
13:47 you'll never reach it.
13:50 So you don't have to be outspoken about it.
13:56 I think it's about behaviours
13:58 and it's about what they do day in, day out
14:03 is the big thing that really sets the tone
14:08 and raises the bar.
14:09 These guys are at the top level every day
14:13 in everything they do.
14:15 Whether it's the gym, whether it's training,
14:17 whether it's being around the place.
14:22 It's a high level every single day.
14:26 They don't come off it.
14:28 That's why they're at the level they're at.
14:30 You want our players to have that psyche.
14:36 Be the best you can be in everything you do.
14:42 In that element, it's about control.
14:45 You're going to have bad games.
14:47 You're going to have days where it doesn't quite fall for you.
14:50 If you're doing all those things that you can't control right,
14:53 then you obviously stand a better chance.
14:55 Speaking to Danny, he's mentioned a few times
14:57 about his non-negotiables,
15:00 the things that he says,
15:02 this is how we work regardless of what's happening.
15:05 Can you give us an idea of the things that Danny's come in
15:12 and said, this is the way that I work and there's no shuffling?
15:15 He wasn't happy today with training.
15:17 He made that quite clear to the boys.
15:20 I think they know now that the intensity that he wants
15:25 is something they're going to have to get used to.
15:28 You can see it coming in.
15:30 You've seen the workload, the Watford game, Plymouth game, Rotherham.
15:36 You see already it's increasing.
15:39 They understand, they don't do it, they might not play.
15:42 He's been very clear, you've got to do the work.
15:46 If this is what I demand, it's what you've got to do.
15:49 We've got to drive it and support coaches and staff
15:53 to keep driving the boys.
15:56 It will be tough for them.
15:58 They've seen a few tongues hanging out already.
16:01 But they'll benefit from it.
16:04 That's the big thing.
16:06 If their mentality changes and their body language says,
16:09 we/I can do this, then all of a sudden that's going to benefit the team.
16:15 I think most people are really, really impressed
16:18 with the speed at which people have bought into it.
16:21 For you in particular, you've worked with some great managers.
16:26 Both as a player and in your post-career as well.
16:30 How impressed have you been with Danny?
16:33 I think straight away when we met,
16:40 he had clips of what he wanted to show the boys.
16:44 I was involved with him saying,
16:46 "That would be a really good clip to show."
16:48 Because he said, "This is what I want."
16:50 I said, "Oh, they can do it."
16:52 Everyone learns different ways visually
16:55 or out on the pitch.
16:58 If they get it when you speak, when you show,
17:01 and when you show them out on the grass,
17:03 then they'll get it.
17:06 We've done it again and again.
17:08 It's been repetitive, but the message is getting through.
17:13 I think for me, as I said to you, I spoke after Plymouth.
17:19 I basically said, "Guys, about the details."
17:22 Top level, they get the details right 99.9% of the time.
17:27 That could be the difference between winning and losing,
17:32 getting a point, or three, or none.
17:34 I think that's where we're at now.
17:36 The details that the boys took on for Watford,
17:40 even though it was only a few days,
17:42 again after that, debriefing, learning for Plymouth.
17:45 Like you said, there's details that game.
17:48 Because actually, we dominated the game for the first half an hour.
17:52 It was our mistakes, details.
17:55 But then you get the details right,
17:57 more often than not, on Sunday, get a result.
18:01 It's no coincidence.
18:02 So actually, the boys are asking questions, which is good,
18:06 because they want to learn, they want to grasp
18:08 what Danny, what Henrik, and the rest of the staff want.
18:13 I think that can make a massive difference for us moving forward.
18:17 I wanted to ask you a little bit about Ted Lasso.
18:20 I knew you would.
18:21 I had to, I had to.
18:23 As a genuine fan of the show.
18:25 But just with Ted Lasso, how did that all come about?
18:28 Bizarre.
18:30 And everyone asks me.
18:32 I actually did an interview yesterday from home.
18:36 No, on Monday, from the New York Times.
18:39 I mean, bizarre.
18:41 It's a bit of a step down to me, unfortunately.
18:43 But very cool.
18:45 Shuffled star and New York Times.
18:47 Yeah, we're often spoken about in the same breath.
18:49 Yeah, yeah.
18:52 So I got a call in 2020.
18:57 I'd just left Ardau Den Haag because of lockdown.
19:00 So I was out in Holland.
19:02 Got home.
19:03 Obviously, lockdown happened.
19:05 And then I got a phone call from Rob Wadsworth,
19:09 who is an agent.
19:11 He's in digital sports marketing.
19:15 Someone I've dealt with over the years.
19:17 And he just said, "I've had a script land on my desk.
19:25 It's about an American football coach
19:28 taking over a Premier League team."
19:30 Straight away I said, "Well, that won't work, will it?
19:33 That just won't work."
19:35 They've asked me to get someone to coach the players
19:39 or the extras.
19:41 You can't call them extras now.
19:42 They're support actors, SAs.
19:44 Yeah, a lot of--yeah.
19:46 Anyway, so I said, "Well, I'm not doing anything."
19:52 At that point, I wasn't working with England or Spurs.
19:56 So I went along, and basically what they wanted
20:01 was a bit of realism to sort of the practices
20:04 that were going on, either that was in the scripts
20:07 or in the background.
20:09 And they just said, "We just want it to look as if
20:12 this would happen at a Premier League team."
20:14 So I was like a coaching advisor, really.
20:18 And I'd go in maybe twice a week whenever they needed me,
20:22 and they were filming those scenes.
20:25 And then what happened was I did a game on Sky as a pundit.
20:32 Can't even remember what game, maybe Charlton game
20:35 or Leicester, I really don't know.
20:37 And one of the production team saw me, and they said,
20:41 "That's the guy who comes in and coaches the players."
20:45 I said, "Yeah."
20:46 They said, "Oh, he's pretty good."
20:49 So whoever that was, thank you, because then they said,
20:52 "Oh, we've got a space.
20:53 We've got a commentator.
20:54 We need a co-commentator/pundit.
20:58 Would you want to do it?"
20:59 And I said, "Well, if you're going to pay me, yeah."
21:03 And of course, they said, "Yeah, we'll do it."
21:07 And so they hooked me up with Arlo,
21:09 who is a professional commentator.
21:11 He does live golf now, but he was doing, I think,
21:14 NBC Football Premier League coverage in America.
21:18 And I became an actor.
21:22 Scripts, trailer, believe it or not, bizarre.
21:26 So I'll tell you a quick story.
21:28 When I was a coaching advisor, they would just put me
21:31 to one side, and we'd eat last.
21:35 Everything got dealt with last.
21:38 The next day, when I came in as co-commentator,
21:42 they took my suits.
21:44 They gave me my food.
21:47 It was like sort of there and there.
21:50 - Did you have a lie there?
21:52 Like the things that had to be in your trailer
21:53 when you got there at work?
21:54 - No, it wasn't that bad.
21:57 But I mean, it was a great experience.
22:00 And basically, we had to learn our lines for season one,
22:07 which is quite tough.
22:09 But then for season two and three,
22:12 they would all put like auto cues out of the way,
22:16 so we wouldn't have to sort of rehearse.
22:18 We'd just get there.
22:19 You sort of rehearse the lines,
22:22 because they don't want to film you staring at the auto cues,
22:25 so you sort of look away.
22:27 And they were so helpful to me and Arla.
22:31 And obviously, it blew up.
22:32 I mean, season one, if you look at season one
22:36 and the balls and the kit,
22:39 it's not like how it was in season two and three,
22:41 because I think they weren't sure if it was going to be a success.
22:45 For me, it was all about timing,
22:48 because it was lockdown, so people were at home.
22:51 And they wanted to feel good.
22:53 And the show is a feel-good show about relationships.
22:56 Football was just the vehicle for it.
22:59 - It's not really about football, is it?
23:00 - No, but everyone thinks it is.
23:02 But it was just there, but actually, it was about love, relationships,
23:07 bouncing back, resilience, being away from home,
23:12 understanding other people, other cultures.
23:17 There was a love triangle in it.
23:19 I mean, it was just bizarre.
23:20 - Thanks to Chris Powell for his time
23:25 and to Joe Cran for that brilliant interview.
23:27 That's us for this week on Everything But The Prem.
23:30 We'll be back next week with the latest analysis
23:32 on events in the EFL and beyond,
23:35 as we head into one of the most crucial stages of the season
23:38 before the madness of the festive season kicks in.
23:41 There are some huge matches this weekend,
23:43 and we'll cover the best of them right here.
23:45 I've been Chris Holt, and this has been Everything But The Prem.
23:48 [music]