Mike Shinoda caught up with NME in London to talk about how new solo single 'Already Over', his move into gaming, chasing a sound rather than just special guest features, stepping out after years of co-writing and producing, playing live, his love for Sleep Token, revisiting the history of Linkin Park and 'Meteora', and new music still to come.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Hi, I'm Liberty, I'm here with NME,
00:03 and I'm sat with the one and only Mike Shinoda.
00:06 How are you doing?
00:07 - Doing well.
00:08 - Yeah, how's London going for you?
00:10 - I don't know yet.
00:11 I've only been here a few hours, so we'll see.
00:14 - Last time you spoke to NME was just before
00:17 Oradiova came out.
00:18 It's been a couple weeks since.
00:20 How's the response been for you?
00:22 - It's actually been really, it's been so positive,
00:25 and one of the things that I've been enjoying so much,
00:29 because as you know, there's a little bit
00:32 of a familiar DNA to the song,
00:34 so Linkin Park fans are loving it.
00:37 The comments in particular have been so positive,
00:42 and that's always a good feeling.
00:44 You make something and people like it.
00:46 - Because you were teasing it in quite a subtle way
00:49 for a little while now, and the fans did a great job
00:51 of putting it together.
00:52 - Yeah, well, so, with some singles,
00:58 I feel like if you do single-type things
01:02 to promote them and launch them,
01:03 and albums, you sometimes do different things, right?
01:08 And I think part of my vision for how to do this,
01:13 kind of just like what I want to do right now,
01:16 sits in between those things.
01:17 Like, it's like, I want to put out music,
01:20 but I also want to do more with it,
01:22 and I want to do some other things
01:26 that are maybe a little more immersive,
01:28 so right now we've got a game going on on the website.
01:31 People are racking up points to be able to win prizes.
01:36 Grand Prize is an actual physical painting
01:39 that I did specifically for this game,
01:43 and somebody's gonna win it this month.
01:48 Yeah, and some other things.
01:49 Like, it's a more in-depth,
01:50 they usually, I don't do this many things for a single.
01:55 - What was it like getting such a wave
01:57 of positive feedback as a solo artist on a solo project,
02:00 especially after so many years working with Linkin Park
02:03 and working in a band setting?
02:05 - I don't, I feel like I've done enough things
02:12 separate from the band for so many years
02:15 that it doesn't, it almost didn't occur to me that way.
02:18 You know what I mean?
02:19 Like, as far back as the Fort Minor project I did
02:24 separate from the band, or there's a song called
02:26 It's Going Down, there was a soundtrack for a movie,
02:30 a score and soundtrack for a movie called The Raid.
02:32 Like, I do stuff on my own,
02:34 I have done stuff on my own pretty regularly,
02:37 just to like, break things up,
02:39 and because sometimes I just have an idea
02:41 that's not a Linkin Park idea.
02:43 So for right now, it was just,
02:44 this was actually an interesting moment
02:47 because it sat almost in between,
02:50 it was kind of like, it's a solo thing in the sense
02:53 that it's got my name on it,
02:55 but it has things that Linkin Park fans
02:58 like about the song.
02:59 Like, it's really a rock song.
03:01 And a lot of the stuff I've put out recently
03:03 hasn't been that.
03:04 So, that's probably one of the things
03:06 people have reacted to most positively,
03:09 is like, there's, oh hey Mike,
03:11 there's a lot of guitar on this song,
03:12 that sounds great, like keep doing that kind of thing.
03:15 I'm excited about that.
03:18 And I'm excited about the fact that like,
03:21 with a song I did, like,
03:23 I played all the instruments on the recording,
03:26 and I'm also doing these,
03:29 I'm doing these sessions where I put together
03:32 like little groups of people,
03:33 and everybody like, plays a different instrument,
03:35 and it's like setting up, I don't know,
03:38 like five different bands,
03:41 and going into the room and singing with people
03:43 that I've never met.
03:44 - Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that.
03:46 So we saw the Australia one.
03:48 - Yeah.
03:49 - I hear we've just done an LA one.
03:50 - Yeah.
03:51 - And there's a London one on the horizon as well, right?
03:53 - Maybe.
03:54 - Maybe.
03:55 - Maybe.
03:56 That might be why I'm here as well.
03:58 - Ah.
03:59 Strange coincidence, that, right?
04:00 - It's so strange, yeah.
04:01 We'll see if it happens, I'm just trying to make friends.
04:04 If I make enough friends to get into the room with,
04:06 and they happen to play instruments,
04:08 then maybe we'll do something.
04:09 To do those, I've been trying to make them not,
04:12 you know how like, there's so many songs right now
04:15 with features, and everybody's like,
04:17 jumping on each other's songs?
04:18 I wanted this to be more about
04:21 the, like if somebody's in the group,
04:26 what I really want is I want them to be known
04:28 for the instrument they're playing,
04:29 as opposed to, oh, it's the guitar player from that band.
04:33 There have been exceptions.
04:36 There will be exceptions too.
04:38 But, yeah, I, it's,
04:42 I want it to feel a little more unexpected
04:45 than just like, getting together with other people
04:48 from bands that I happen to know.
04:51 - Yeah, I was gonna ask you,
04:52 how did the idea for this spawn?
04:53 Like, how did it come up,
04:55 and why were you so eager to work with new talent?
04:57 Especially on your own song,
04:59 rather than creating something new with them?
05:01 - So, okay, so for the last few years,
05:04 I was doing, I was writing and producing for other people.
05:08 So, Demi Lovato, Paris, Grandson, Sueko,
05:13 Justice Bennett, a number of others.
05:15 Some songs that are still on the way,
05:17 other ones that just didn't work out.
05:20 And I was doing that, I've been doing that for years,
05:22 and avoiding, for the most part,
05:26 avoiding doing songs of my own.
05:29 And even in those songs, like, it came up a couple times.
05:31 Like, oh, do you wanna jump on the verse?
05:33 Like, do you wanna jump on the thing?
05:33 And I'd be like, no, no, no, this is your song.
05:36 And then at a certain point, I started to realize
05:39 I was getting the urge to do stuff, to do my own stuff.
05:46 And I put out a song called "In My Head."
05:50 And then now this one,
05:52 these are like part of this chapter of music
05:55 that it's really like back to me making songs for me
06:00 with already over with the new one.
06:02 I was, since I played all the instruments,
06:05 I was like, well, okay, it's such a live sounding song.
06:08 Like, should I go tour?
06:09 Should I go, should I put together some musicians
06:12 to do a live show?
06:13 And I realized like, I don't,
06:14 now is not the time to go tour for me.
06:17 Like, I wanna stay in the studio
06:18 and make some more things musically and otherwise.
06:22 But I do wanna present the song in a live way.
06:26 So how do I like figure that out?
06:30 Like, I don't wanna put together a band
06:32 and I don't wanna go tour, but I do wanna play it live.
06:34 Do you see what I'm saying?
06:35 So it's like, the idea came up with myself
06:39 and then a few other people on my team
06:42 and folks at the label that I work with.
06:44 We were able to arrange, like come up with this format
06:48 of putting together multiple sessions.
06:53 And it's just, we just call it already over sessions.
06:57 - Because like you were saying,
06:58 you've worked with so many like huge names
07:00 like Demi Lovato, like Paris,
07:02 but then also some emerging talent as well.
07:04 Is anyone who you've worked with
07:06 who you see almost as like a younger version of you
07:10 when you were first starting out in the industry
07:11 who you think could hit the same peak as Linkin Park?
07:16 - It would be strange for me to work with somebody like me
07:20 because the dynamic I'm looking for
07:24 is one where I'm bringing something to the table
07:28 that they don't have.
07:29 Like that's kind of the reason for doing it.
07:32 You know what I'm saying?
07:33 So like, I wanna work with people
07:35 that are different from me.
07:37 And they've got an incredible thing that I love
07:41 and I can also bring a thing to the table
07:44 and I can have value, right?
07:47 So like Paris, for example, so Lynn Gunn from Paris.
07:50 Lynn is a person who, she's a great songwriter,
07:55 but she actually is also kind of a great producer.
07:57 She came in with, like when we worked on the song,
08:05 like she came in with this demo
08:06 of like a very fleshed out like track.
08:11 And so it wasn't my job, normally my job,
08:13 part of my job would be to really enhance the track
08:16 and make the track sound like a finished song.
08:18 Not as much in that one.
08:21 Like it was more, that one was more about
08:24 aggregating her ideas, getting the lyrics and the melody
08:27 really to where they needed to be
08:29 and supporting the ideas that she had
08:31 that were not cooked yet.
08:34 - I feel like that question was,
08:36 you asked if there was somebody like me.
08:39 Maybe there, there probably are plenty of people
08:42 that I would feel that way about that I haven't worked with.
08:46 Stuff that I'm listening to right now, I really love,
08:50 I really love Gene Dawson, I really love Breakin's
08:56 Sleep Token, been listening to.
08:58 - Of course.
08:58 - Yeah, I think somebody from the UK was like,
09:01 have you heard this yet?
09:02 Was it really you?
09:03 - That was me.
09:04 - And I made fun of you for it, do you remember?
09:05 - You did, you told me that the UK gets over music.
09:09 - You guys always have this hot band that you're like,
09:13 oh, everybody's listening to this,
09:14 this is the one that we listen to.
09:16 And I was like, why is it always so trendy with you?
09:19 And then I went and listened to it and I was like,
09:21 oh, I've actually already heard this band.
09:23 I had already heard them.
09:25 And I was like, okay, now I know why everybody's
09:28 talking about this because this new record is really,
09:32 what, like adventurous?
09:34 Like it's really a strange, to me it was strange
09:37 in like the best way.
09:39 - I told you they were here to stay.
09:40 - I believe you now, I believe you now.
09:43 - There was doubt there first.
09:44 - Are you dying that I remember that?
09:46 I didn't remember it was you,
09:47 but that was like literally the story, that's really funny.
09:49 - Speaking of the metal scene, what's your take
09:51 on the modern day?
09:52 I feel like it's evolved so much since you were
09:55 first starting out.
09:56 Do you reckon--
09:57 - I mean, you already know how much I give a shit
10:00 about genres and scenes.
10:03 I don't care, I really don't.
10:06 I just listen to what I listen to.
10:07 I guess if I think about it, I usually am more impressed
10:14 or drawn to things that build on top of tropes
10:20 or common ways people do things and they add something new
10:26 to the conversation.
10:27 So that's the reason I mentioned those artists
10:30 that I mentioned just now is that I think all of them
10:32 add something to the conversation.
10:35 And so many more, I have this playlist,
10:37 this Spotify playlist, it's a public playlist.
10:39 If you follow me on, you'll see the Breadcrumbs playlist.
10:43 My Breadcrumbs playlist just has tons of stuff
10:46 I'm listening to that like stuff that I,
10:50 the metal stuff that I do like.
10:51 It's usually because it's unusual in some way.
10:58 - And then of course, I feel like it's been
11:00 an insanely busy year for you,
11:02 as well as releasing the new single,
11:05 as well as doing the sessions,
11:06 as well as the song for Scream 6.
11:09 We've also seen you venture back into your early discography
11:12 and release that like mega like anniversary reissue.
11:17 What was it like for you now juggling all these new projects
11:19 to go back to your earlier work?
11:21 Do you see it through like a different lens now?
11:24 - Well, I didn't, none of us were married to the idea
11:29 of doing a 20th anniversary for Meteora.
11:33 And it was kind of contingent upon the quality
11:37 of the demos and stuff that we found.
11:40 So once you dug into the, I don't wanna say archives,
11:44 'cause we don't have like, it's not like that.
11:47 It's more like the band management,
11:51 like label, friends, so on.
11:53 Everybody's got some little things
11:56 like that they've just had since 20 years ago.
11:59 And it was like, let's collect the stuff we've got
12:02 and see if it's a release.
12:04 And it was, and it was really, we felt really,
12:09 I think we felt really good about it.
12:11 We felt really like confident
12:14 that it would be a kind of package
12:17 that fans would be like surprised by.
12:20 So that is how it played out.
12:24 Lost was a, you know, the fans love that.
12:28 I was really happy with what we were able to do with it.
12:31 And we actually just put out,
12:32 the 20th anniversary of Meteora was a huge box set.
12:36 Like there was like a bunch of DVDs, a bunch of CDs,
12:41 not that anybody cares about physical stuff very much,
12:44 but there was a ton of stuff.
12:46 But the best, in most people's opinion, I think,
12:50 the best thing in there was one of the albums
12:53 called Lost Demos.
12:54 And we just, right now, if you go on linkfark.com,
12:58 we just put out the vinyl for that.
13:00 So it's nice to be able to single that piece out
13:03 and offer it in a physical format
13:05 that people actually do care about, which is records.
13:09 And yeah, I think I've been in the course
13:14 of the last, you know, year.
13:17 I don't know if it's just because of the place
13:21 that music in general is at,
13:23 or if it's just me not giving a crap.
13:27 I've been more listening to more like rock and alternative,
13:33 more stuff with live instruments
13:37 than previous years, probably.
13:40 - Speaking of these new songs,
13:42 you sort of touched on it a bit.
13:44 Can we expect to see more music from you in the future?
13:47 Is Already Over potentially part of another album?
13:52 - So I'm not putting together an album right now.
13:56 I do have an EP of stuff on the way.
14:00 It's called the Crimson Chapter EP.
14:02 So it's based on remixes of Already Over.
14:05 I've got, In My Head is on there as well.
14:08 And I did a remix of a song from a couple years back.
14:12 The song is called Fine.
14:15 So it's eight tracks and basically six of them are new,
14:20 but they are like re, I don't know, not remixes,
14:25 but they're a new version of the material that's out there.
14:29 Beyond that, next year, we'll see.
14:33 I do have, I mean, that's the whole reason
14:34 I'm not going on tour or whatever
14:36 is 'cause I'm making new stuff.
14:39 So we'll see what happens. - That's amazing.
14:40 And then any more Linkin Park reissues?
14:42 - Nothing planned right now.
14:45 I always just tell people, like, when there's news,
14:47 I'll give you the news.
14:48 - Yeah, 'cause you don't just reissue them.
14:50 You give fans something to go for.
14:52 Like, the amount of thought and the amount of work
14:55 that went into Meteora, that was like a big old box set.
14:58 - Yeah, we've been doing it for a while.
15:01 There were so many great, like, fan box set,
15:06 large packages that we collected when we were little
15:10 or younger and that we've seen along the way
15:13 that our, I think our bar or our, like, expectation
15:18 for what's like a proper reissue or revisit
15:24 is, it's kinda high.
15:25 Like, I don't love just, like, putting out
15:29 greatest hits stuff or putting out remasters of things.
15:34 We've done that, but it's usually not a big deal.
15:38 And when something, you know, if we were to do a reissue
15:40 of one of our Linkin Park albums,
15:42 we want it to be a big deal.
15:44 So if we can't make it that quality, then we won't do it.
15:47 That's, when people ask,
15:49 are you gonna do one for every album?
15:50 I'm not sure, 'cause I don't know.
15:52 If it's not great, then I don't think we should do it.
15:54 - Yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing the London version
15:57 of "Already Over."
15:58 Is there maybe another place that you're visiting as well?
16:01 - We'll see.
16:04 Because of the previous chat we had and then today,
16:08 I'm feeling like after this,
16:10 you need to give me some more music recommendations.
16:12 - I will happily do that.
16:14 Yeah? - Yeah, I think so.
16:15 - Maybe when we're not on camera,
16:16 'cause I'll talk to you for an hour about that.
16:18 I've got, like, a Rolodex of bands
16:21 that are going to mind now.
16:22 - You're one for one at this point.
16:24 So you're doubting a thousand, yeah.
16:26 - Yeah, each interview, I'll give you a new band.
16:28 - Great, okay, sounds good.
16:30 - Thank you so much for taking the time.
16:32 (upbeat music)
16:34 (music)
16:36 (fire crackling)