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00:00 Hello sir, this is not a well formulated question or anything but the discussion around bodies
00:10 kind of disturbed me a little bit and I kind of sense that it came from a place of privilege
00:17 because, you know, socio-politically body has been made the center of discrimination
00:25 at so many levels, you know, be it disabled bodies, bodies of color or queer bodies.
00:31 So bodies have been made the center of discrimination and it's continued to, you know, being made
00:37 so.
00:38 Where I'm going with this is, should we kind of acknowledge some kind of limit to spirituality?
00:47 Because can spirituality, you know, show us a way in all walks of life?
00:54 Even the question that the previous questioner had asked about ghosts and such, just imagine
01:01 if I'm a schizophrenic and I see, I'm delusional and I see things that are not really there
01:08 for anybody else.
01:10 So just because somebody else doesn't see it, it does not, you know, make me, make my
01:18 presence non-existent, right?
01:22 So again, I'm repeating the question, like, does spirituality have a kind of limit?
01:29 Should it be, you know, not be sought in certain cases like, you know, social discrimination
01:35 or are there places where we have to set this aside and, you know, put on?
01:41 You'll need to converse because there are a lot of things.
01:46 So I don't think I can.
01:48 Not a question per se.
01:49 Yeah, you want to discuss, I understand.
01:51 I cannot have a monologue in this.
01:53 There are a lot of things that you're trying to say.
01:55 So why do you think that spirituality must have a ceiling somewhere?
02:02 Not a ceiling.
02:03 What I'm meant to say is, are we kind of giving a misconception that, you know, all your answers
02:14 can be found in spirituality?
02:16 No, no.
02:17 Spirituality does not talk of giving answers.
02:20 It says the central problem is the I itself and there lies the solution.
02:33 If the I is the problem and the I is drunk and ignorant and it's asking a lot of questions,
02:41 there is no point giving answers to those questions.
02:44 In fact, spirituality has very few answers.
02:47 It has a central solution, no answers.
02:52 Of what use is an answer if it keeps the questioner alive?
02:57 You give one answer, he'll come up with four more questions.
03:01 A solution is something that dissolves the questioner.
03:05 The questioner is the false I.
03:09 The false I.
03:10 And if that false I can go away, all kinds of things that make us suffer just disappear.
03:17 That's spirituality.
03:18 I think then my question would be, can everyone afford to be spiritual?
03:27 How do you afford to not to be spiritual?
03:31 Because if you're not spiritual, then you are making a mistake at the very first step
03:37 of your existence.
03:38 No, the discussion about the I, right, the questioner, it kind of reminded me of Ramana
03:45 Maharishi's example, kind of the fire which you use to keep the fire burning and it burns
03:54 itself out.
03:55 But I am talking of people who are living in a kind of delusional state wherein you
04:02 can't separate this I from the body or I from the mind.
04:07 Right, so you gave an example, you said that for example somebody is, what did you say?
04:13 Schizophrenic.
04:14 Right, and that fellow is experiencing something and that experience is very real for that
04:22 person, right, and you are saying how does it help, how does spirituality help that person?
04:31 What apart from spirituality can help that person?
04:33 The person has to know that the thing is not the truth.
04:39 Truth is absolute, absolute meaning 100% objective, zero subjectivity in it or you
04:46 could say pure subjectivity in the sense that objects apart from the subject do not exist,
04:51 whatever you say.
04:53 But truth is something that is not relative.
04:57 We suffer when we take our condition as the truth.
05:01 When we start seeing that it is something only for me, not only is it only for me, it
05:08 is in fact rooted in me, then I in fact feel empowered by way of having a choice.
05:15 If it is to me, then it can also be not to me, but if it's something is absolute, then
05:23 I have no way of opting out.
05:27 Please understand, if the temperature in this room is 27 degrees centigrade, there is no
05:34 way I can experience 32 degrees, right, because that's what the temperature is.
05:41 But if I am feverish and I am the only one experiencing a high temperature, then I have
05:47 a choice.
05:48 The choice is to get rid of my disease.
05:54 Spirituality tells you whatever you are experiencing is your own subjective matter.
05:59 Therefore, you have the power to modify your experiences.
06:03 And even if you cannot modify your experiences, you can at least have control over your reaction
06:09 and your attitude to your experiences.
06:11 Have you heard of John Nash?
06:17 You remember the movie?
06:20 A Beautiful Mind?
06:23 You remember what he used to experience?
06:25 What was it?
06:26 He was experiencing all kinds of things and he was one of the greatest mathematicians
06:31 in recent times.
06:33 Game theory.
06:35 Any mathematics students here?
06:37 You would know the importance of Nash.
06:41 And he was seeing people, he was seeing places, he was seeing that little girl, if I remember
06:46 correctly.
06:47 That movie came around a decade back, so I don't remember clearly.
06:50 And how did he use to counter that?
06:53 You remember that?
06:56 He used to say, he would be seeing this apparition in front of me.
07:01 There is this girl and the girl is saying something.
07:04 She would look around and try to detect whether others too are looking at her.
07:10 Something like that?
07:11 Am I mistaken?
07:12 Something like that, right?
07:14 And when he would see that nobody around him is looking at her, he would tell himself,
07:19 it's only me.
07:21 It's subjective.
07:22 If it's subjective, I give it no importance.
07:27 I give it no importance and I move on.
07:29 So spirituality, which is I-awareness, is the only way to get rid of all that which
07:36 infects you, afflicts you.
07:40 So what else do you do?
07:45 You know, I had COVID and one of the effects of COVID was that I developed tinnitus, rather
07:52 a strong one in one of my ears.
07:56 So for the initial few weeks or months, I would be searching for the insects around
08:04 that were making those noises.
08:05 What is tinnitus?
08:06 You constantly hear noise in your ear.
08:09 Now I was used to having perfectly healthy ears, silence when silent, but now there is
08:18 always a constant buzz as if you have those insects that come around in the rainy season.
08:28 So I would actually be looking around, where is the noise coming from?
08:30 Where is the noise coming from?
08:32 Or I would be thinking there is something in the ear that's creating the noise, so I
08:36 would be trying to clean it up.
08:39 After a while, I learnt.
08:41 I said it's only me and if it's only me, how am I trying to fight it?
08:47 Let it be there.
08:48 It's doing what it would and the doctor said it is going to now remain your entire life.
08:51 Can't be helped.
08:52 That can't be helped.
08:53 Can't be helped.
08:54 Let the body do what it wants to do.
08:57 I'll do what I want to do.
08:58 Even at this moment, there is somebody speaking to me in my ear.
09:02 Let him speak.
09:03 I'm speaking to you.
09:04 Do I have that choice?
09:07 Do I have that choice?
09:08 That's what spirituality asks you.
09:10 Don't you have a choice?
09:13 Don't you have a choice?
09:14 Exercise that choice.
09:16 Why must you needlessly suffer?
09:18 Why must you be a slave to the body and therefore to the world?
09:22 You have a choice to be your own master.
09:28 But I'm sure it's not yet complete.
09:30 Please continue.
09:36 So the question of consent came to my mind when you were, you know, so yeah, when you
09:42 are having the ringing in your ear, you're able to say that, you know, like I'm the only
09:46 one who's hearing it.
09:48 So my, I think from the beginning, my question has been this.
09:52 So what if someone cannot make this call for themselves?
09:56 And that's a choice.
09:58 It's not that you cannot make this call.
10:01 Spirituality just does not admit the word helplessness.
10:07 There is no space for this one word.
10:12 If there is one sin, it is called helplessness.
10:16 Never say I never had a choice.
10:17 You had a choice.
10:18 You chose not to exercise the choice.
10:20 Take it upon yourself.
10:22 Be responsible.
10:23 But in certain medical situations, the, you know, the consent falls on the family when,
10:30 you know, the individual is not able to give some kind.
10:32 That's fine.
10:33 The individual is then already gone.
10:35 If the individual is not conscious enough, even to give consent, take him as already
10:41 gone.
10:43 The choosing agency itself is no more there now.
10:48 So how do you call the patient even alive?
10:50 Now, are we suspending the judgment here or like, are we like?
10:57 No, see, please understand.
11:01 Would you want to call yourself alive by virtue of the fact that you breathe, you eat?
11:10 Give a nuanced answer.
11:14 Or do you call yourself alive when you are conscious and to be conscious is to have a
11:21 choice.
11:22 There is a difference between human beings and animals and vegetables.
11:27 If a vegetable can grow, you say it's alive, right?
11:31 If it's not rotting, it's alive.
11:34 If an animal can move about and breathe and eat, it's alive.
11:38 But should the same definition be applied to human beings?
11:43 We are not animals.
11:44 We are creatures of consciousness.
11:46 We are alive only if we can know, we can experience and we can decide.
11:55 If you can neither know nor experience nor decide, how are you alive?
11:59 But by that definition, you are going to have a huge problem.
12:03 By that definition, 99% of the people of the world are already dead.
12:11 Because we move about, we eat, we do a lot of things.
12:17 But are we really conscious enough to know and choose?
12:22 Well, we are not.
12:23 We run around like automatons.
12:26 We are very deeply conditioned beings, machines.
12:30 So we are actually not alive in the truest sense.
12:35 But it appears at least that we are alive.
12:37 When that person is there on the deathbed, not having any consciousness and also the
12:46 probability of him regaining consciousness runs close to zero.
12:52 I do not see how we are still calling him as a living person.
13:00 If I faint now and I am not able to do anything on my own, am I good enough dead?
13:07 The probability of your regaining consciousness, that remains to be seen.
13:12 If I know that you can be brought back, let's say in six months, in one year and the cost
13:19 of bringing you back is not so high that it turns many others unconscious, then I will
13:28 want to revive you.
13:31 Otherwise not.
13:32 See, let's be very realistic.
13:36 How can I keep one person alive if keeping that one person alive is tantamount to turning
13:42 10 others dead?
13:43 Unless that person, unless that person is potentially so full of consciousness that
13:58 even a major possibility of reviving him is sufficient to keep us going.
14:06 A Buddha, a Krishna, a Christ, if he were on his deathbed, probably it would be fair
14:13 enough for 20 others to sacrifice their lives to bring him up.
14:18 But that's a very, very unique and impossible kind of case.
14:22 So let's not discuss that.
14:24 But again, I am leaving more disturbed now because we have a classic case, the trolley
14:35 example, the trolley case in philosophy, wherein you kind of judge which life is, like you
14:42 said, if you can sacrifice 20 lives to save the life of one Buddha, is it morally right?
14:50 So I don't know, I still cannot agree with you, but I don't want to be more annoying
14:54 with my…
14:55 No, no, no, no, no.
14:56 I think everybody is enjoying it.
14:58 Are we not?
14:59 We are really enjoying this and it's going deeper and deeper.
15:02 Please continue.
15:03 See, see, see, wait, wait, wait.
15:08 When we say that it is alright to have 20 people go for the sake of one Buddha, I am
15:17 talking of 20 lovers.
15:20 I am not talking of 20 sacrificial lambs.
15:24 Is that not clear?
15:26 I am saying the nature of the Buddha is such that in love there would be 20 willing to
15:34 lay down their lives so that the Buddha can be resurrected.
15:40 Not that I am purchasing animals from the market and forcefully slaughtering them to
15:45 somehow revive one VIP.
15:47 No, that's not what I am talking of.
15:51 If I really love you and I know your worth, I lay down my life for your sake.
15:57 Is that not what love is?
15:59 That's what I am talking of.
16:07 And I am not talking of attachment.
16:08 I am talking of knowing your worth and therefore laying down my life.
16:12 Knowing, knowing, knowledge, not attachment.
16:16 I'll leave the mic for something else to take over.
16:26 So the question which was raised before and how you finished, I got motivated actually
16:34 to continue.
16:35 So when you were talking about the Buddha and 20 people giving their lives willingly
16:42 because of love to save Buddha, Christ, Krishna, whatever.
16:47 So first question which was raised in me is will Buddha want something like that?
16:59 And second question is, you said for Buddha, but is it important, is it Buddha or me or
17:05 anybody here?
17:07 Because I think that those two are quite important questions to talk about.
17:11 Is it because Buddha is Buddha and because the idea that Buddha will save us after that
17:16 when he is rising or Christ or whatever?
17:19 Or because what is love then?
17:22 Is it love related to love towards something which is going to somehow save us, no?
17:28 Or help us or do something for us?
17:31 Or love is giving life, not just life, it doesn't have to be at the ultimate level,
17:37 okay?
17:38 But actually the level of sacrifice which is not anymore a sacrifice because it's done
17:44 by…
17:45 So, what's love?
17:48 What's sacrifice?
17:49 What's love?
17:50 What's sacrifice?
17:51 How does the whole thing happen?
17:53 Who are we?
17:55 We are conscious entities that seek contentment in consciousness.
18:03 We want to be more conscious.
18:06 We want to be absolutely conscious.
18:08 Our consciousness remains blemished with all kinds of nonsense.
18:16 We want to give that up.
18:18 We want to be purer selves.
18:21 That's who we are.
18:22 Then what is love and what is sacrifice?
18:26 To give that up which impedes your ascension is sacrifice.
18:35 If there is something that blocks you from rising upwards, it is sacrifice.
18:43 And that's why sacrifice is no big deal because you are only giving that up which was anyway
18:48 unnecessary.
18:50 In that sense, sacrifice and renunciation are one.
18:55 What is love?
18:57 Love is the desire to rise upwards.
19:02 And if the desire is not about rising upwards, then it cannot be called as love.
19:09 You want to be a better and higher self.
19:13 You have that adulation, that respect towards that which is high up there.
19:20 That is love.
19:21 That is the purest definition of love.
19:26 Is there a want there?
19:28 Is want that important in that?
19:30 That wanting exists.
19:32 You see, there is nobody, there is nobody who does not desire.
19:37 Is there anybody here who does not desire?
19:39 In fact, we all would have desired something or the other even in the last 10 minutes.
19:46 All desires are in some way forms of love.
19:52 However, unfortunately, perverted forms of love.
19:57 All desire is for your own betterment.
20:00 Is that not?
20:02 You desire something for your own sake.
20:05 It says that we do not know what would make us better.
20:09 So we keep desiring all the useless things.
20:12 When the desire is right, it is called love.
20:16 When the desire is about getting something that would actually take you upwards, it is
20:20 called love.
20:23 So there is this beautiful story by O. Henry, if I remember correctly.
20:36 That husband and wife story where they are poor couple and the husband probably wants
20:44 a wrist watch.
20:47 O. Henry?
20:51 Anybody remembers the title?
20:54 Gift of the, the gift of, gift of the, no not the watch.
21:03 If somebody would Google, you will know.
21:05 But it is a very popular story.
21:08 So we are talking of sacrificing.
21:09 So what happens is this.
21:11 So the husband wants a watch and the wife wants something for her hair.
21:26 Hair clips, let's say hair clips.
21:29 This one, this one, the gift of the Magi.
21:35 And it's probably Christmas time, right?
21:37 Christmas time.
21:39 So they both surprise each other on Christmas Eve.
21:45 The wife has given away her hair to get the watch for the husband and the husband has
21:52 sold off something important, the watch itself to get the clips for the wife.
21:59 That's how sacrifice operates.
22:03 You do it for the other.
22:04 You do it for the other, knowing perfectly well that what you are doing for the other
22:08 would indeed be helpful to the other.
22:11 Wanting nothing in return.
22:12 So you said, would Buddha want 20 people to lay down their lives for his sake?
22:19 He won't.
22:20 In fact, there is a beautiful anecdote from Buddha's life.
22:27 We do not know whether these things happened or not.
22:30 But if these stories exist, there is a reason.
22:35 So the Buddha is going and there is this butcher taking away a goat for slaughter.
22:42 And the Buddha tells the butcher, "Why are you slaughtering the goat?
22:45 Please leave the goat."
22:48 The butcher says, "But you know, I kill the goat and I make my ends meet.
22:56 There is certain money to be had."
23:01 So the Buddha says, "How much money?"
23:03 The butcher tells an amount.
23:06 Buddha is not having that kind of thing.
23:12 So the Buddha says, "Fine, it's flesh that you would get from this animal, right?"
23:17 The butcher says, "Yes."
23:18 So Buddha says, "Alright, you take that similar weight of flesh from my body and leave
23:24 the poor animal."
23:27 Now here you find the one with the highest consciousness prepared to sacrifice himself
23:33 for an animal with a very low level of consciousness.
23:39 That's how love operates.
23:43 Love for love to the one who is at a low level of consciousness is to aspire for a high level.
23:52 And love for one sitting on the Himalayan peaks of consciousness is to be compassionate
24:01 towards those who are at low levels.
24:04 And for their sake, if needed, lay down your life.
24:10 The one who is at the lower level needs to lay down his life so that he can be higher.
24:17 In fact, if you do not lay down your life at the lower level, how will you ever rise
24:21 higher?
24:22 You will continue to be existent at the lower levels.
24:27 So if you are here, then you need to quit your life at this level so that you may rise
24:33 up.
24:35 And if you are up, then by the virtue of being up there, you get so much compassion that
24:41 you are prepared to lay down your life for the ones who are lower down.
24:48 Now you do not know who must die for whom.
24:54 Is there a higher and lower level if you are there?
24:57 If I do not answer this question, why would you remain dissatisfied?
25:03 Because this question is asked so that you can move to a higher level.
25:08 The existence of this question itself proves that there indeed is a lower and higher level.
25:13 Otherwise, why will you ask a question?
25:18 Because you mentioned.
25:21 That does not make it obligatory on you to do anything.
25:26 Does anybody like being lied to?
25:33 When there is something in front of you, you want to know its truth.
25:36 We all have a natural love for higher levels of consciousness.
25:43 It's our duty to do justice to that love.
25:47 We exist for the sake of that love.
25:51 All this that is happening here, what is this?
25:54 This is an exercise in love.
25:56 Love not in the sense that you are loving a mortal person here or vice versa.
26:05 Love in the sense that we are sitting here to raise ourselves up and that is what is
26:11 called the action of love.
26:15 To raise yourself up.
26:17 I am attracted towards the highest.
26:20 That's called love.
26:22 And therefore, all attraction towards anything other than the highest is not love.
26:30 We may call it as love but it is not love.
26:34 So example, if you say I love chicken, that's not love.
26:39 And even the love that we exhibit towards most of that, that we exhibit towards our
26:47 families, our girlfriends, boyfriends or this or that, that's hardly love.
26:54 Because that hardly ever amounts to a rise in consciousness.
27:15 Thank you.
27:16 Namaskar.
27:17 Namaskar.
27:18 Namaskar.
27:19 Namaskar.
27:19 (howling)
27:21 [BLANK_AUDIO]