Chris catches up with Alex Miller and Lee Sobot for the latest championship action after the international break
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00:00 Things are really beginning to take shape and in the championship after a busy week,
00:04 we are looking at the top and the bottom of the table.
00:06 Up at the right end, Leeds United are quietly going about their business, tucked in just
00:10 behind the top two.
00:11 Meanwhile, at the basement, the mood appears to be surprisingly high for Sheffie Wednesday
00:16 under Danny Rowe, but they need to get a lot more points on the board if they are to stave
00:19 off the drop.
00:21 With me this week, it's a Yorkshire double with Lee Sobor from YEP and Sheffie star's
00:26 Alex Miller.
00:27 I'm Chris Holt and this is Everything But The Prep.
00:31 You say that, look the table is perilous from a Wednesday point of view, there's no
00:50 getting away from that.
00:51 But like you said in your intro there Chris, there's a creeping optimism, the task is obviously
01:01 unenviable and still remains a very, very tall one.
01:04 But performances like last night and a good solid result that helped out our friends at
01:11 the M1, no end.
01:14 Yeah, there's something maybe growing-ish.
01:19 We will start off with Wednesday, we'll start at the bottom, right at the very bottom.
01:28 Like we said, nothing else, it takes some kind of character of a man to be able to maintain
01:41 the level of optimism that is around Sheffie Wednesday at the minute, all things considered.
01:47 He's been in, I don't know, what is it now, seven games or so?
01:52 Yeah.
01:53 He's got one win and yet everybody still maintains this is the man who's going to take us forward.
02:02 I don't know whether it's just because there was already a realisation that perhaps they
02:06 are going to go down and this is, let's start afresh.
02:13 He's a vibrant young manager, he's the one to take us forward and we'll finally sort
02:17 ourselves out.
02:18 Would that be fair?
02:21 I think so.
02:23 Such is the position that Wednesday find themselves in that last night felt like a win.
02:28 Do you know what I mean?
02:32 For anybody who didn't know, Wednesday did grab a late draw against Leicester City, tabletop
02:37 in Leicester City at Hillsborough.
02:40 Yeah, and it's the nature of that that does make it feel like a win.
02:45 Football's got a funny way, isn't it, when things are not so rosy of making performances
02:51 and incremental gains in performance and taking a point like that, you know, feel perhaps
02:58 bigger than it was.
02:59 Huddersfield's win at Sunderland was a bit of a slap in the face because of an injury
03:04 time equaliser against the tabletoppers and you walk out with the deficit stretch to 12
03:09 points.
03:10 But yeah, there's something about the way that Danny Real's gone about things.
03:14 I think it was such a low bar in terms of the performances and results.
03:21 A couple of journalists before the game last night walked into Hillsborough and mentioned
03:27 to me, Danny Real's getting a good press for a manager that's come in and got one win in
03:34 six matches and there is obviously a logic to that, but the performances are so improved.
03:39 Wednesday are still after last night, I mean, they had three very, very good chances in
03:44 the first 20 minutes last night to take the lead.
03:47 They're missing those chances and they're conspiring to find ways to lose games.
03:54 But the, I mean, the stats, not everyone's a big fan of XG and that sort of thing, but
04:02 they are huge, huge improvements.
04:08 In the end, you know, there's a lot of people out there that would argue that XG doesn't
04:12 lie and things sort of balance themselves out and results end up following those sort
04:18 of metrics that football people that subscribe to that sort of thing speak about so often.
04:27 Yeah, look, there is a degree of clutching at positives, you know, Bale Akademarcu coming
04:32 in and showing what he can do at the age of 18.
04:38 But there is a genuine feeling from the camp as well, I think, of togetherness and the
04:43 fact that maybe, you know, if they can go on a run, they can give themselves a chance,
04:47 but it will require a very good run.
04:51 And as we say, results and consistent results need to follow the performances and pretty
04:57 quickly because the games obviously in December come thick and fast.
05:01 What is it about Danny Rowe that has kind of dragged the fans along with this?
05:09 As you say, we keep pointing out that he's only got one win under his belt here, so it's
05:13 not as if, you know, it's not as if he's got results that are backing him.
05:19 So for those who wouldn't know or who don't pay that much attention and only really look
05:24 at the scores, what is it he's got about him that has managed to kind of endear himself
05:31 to the players and the support?
05:34 I think there's probably three things.
05:36 I think his CV is very impressive and there is a feeling that Wednesday are very lucky
05:40 to have got him, despite the fact that he's never held a managerial post.
05:47 He's someone that's consistently headhunted by Southampton and then by Munich and then
05:54 the German national team.
05:55 You know, there's certainly a feeling of what's he doing here sort of thing.
06:02 He's got the personality to go with it.
06:03 He's very earnest, very honest in his approach to press conferences and that sort of thing.
06:12 There was a moment after the game last night, the players had long gone down the tunnel
06:15 and looking down the pitch, Danny Reel is making his way along the Kop and then the
06:19 South stand, you know, shaking hands with supporters and thanking them.
06:23 So I think he's quite savvy, but there is a genuine nature about him in terms of wanting
06:30 to build something.
06:31 And look, the chances are that Wednesday will be a League One club again next season, despite
06:42 the fact he's only got one win.
06:46 There is a real buy-in and look, that can change.
06:49 If Wednesday don't stay up, you know, results tell on a fan base and a relegation certainly
06:56 would.
06:57 But there seems to be a buy-in, even at this early stage, that Wednesday can set a plan
07:03 around Danny Reel.
07:04 You know, he's brought in very, very high standard coaching staff.
07:08 You know, Chris Powell was working with England not so long ago.
07:13 Yeah, it feels like that at long last, there's something to really, really build around with
07:20 Danny Reel.
07:21 After one win in seven, there's a lot of conversations about how Wednesday are going to keep hold
07:26 of him, which is a remarkable thing.
07:28 And it is difficult to sort of describe to, as you say, those probably looking from the
07:33 outside in.
07:34 But yeah, I mean, I think I'm the same as everyone else, sort of quietly excited about
07:40 what the future will be, whether that's in the championship or more likely in League
07:45 One.
07:46 Should the ambitions be to stay in the league, which obviously they will be, I'm taking for
07:53 granted that there will be some kind of investment or some kind of recruitment going on in January.
08:04 But will he get that, do you think?
08:08 I'm kind of guessing he won't get enough, because nobody ever gets exactly what they
08:15 want.
08:16 But will he get anything to try and just bump things up a little bit?
08:21 I think obviously goals is the big concern at the minute.
08:25 Yeah, the line from Dapen Chan's theory is always the same.
08:30 I'll back the manager as much as I can.
08:34 January is notoriously difficult.
08:35 It's notoriously difficult for Sheffield Wednesday.
08:37 If you look back at the last few transfer windows, they haven't been able to do what
08:42 the manager has spoken at the start of the window about what he'd like to do.
08:47 And as you say, goals are very much the key here.
08:54 Because effective strikers aren't often available, and certainly not in January, and certainly
09:01 not on the type of budget that Wednesday are expected to be working with.
09:05 So I think you're probably looking at loans, you're looking at Danny Rill tapping into
09:12 contacts that he's got, Wednesday don't have a head of recruitment.
09:15 It doesn't feel like that process is particularly close to coming to an end.
09:24 So Danny's already spoken about January being tough, being difficult.
09:31 And a month out, you sort of maybe read into that that he's trying to temper expectations
09:38 in terms of what they are going to be able to do.
09:42 But again, you're already sort of looking beyond that into the summer, regardless of
09:49 what division Wednesday are in.
09:51 It's a tall task staying up because of the start that they made and how much they're
09:56 scrambling to get back.
09:58 But performances like last night, as I say, have sort of eked out a little bit of positivity
10:02 from what is a pretty miserable situation as far as the table is concerned.
10:07 - Leo, I'll just bring you in now on the bottom end of the table.
10:12 You will have seen Leeds play, certainly quite a few of the teams who are down there.
10:18 Have you seen anything to suggest that the bottom three as it stands at the minute will
10:27 change before the season's out?
10:30 I mean, obviously, it's Wednesday, Rotherham and QPR at the minute.
10:34 Hullsfield, just a few points there of them?
10:39 - Not particularly, purely because I think, as Alex alluded to himself, down to the gap
10:43 that there is between those sides, really.
10:45 And I think it's a similar sort of situation at the top of the table, which we'll come
10:48 to with Leeds in terms of them having to try and chase down Leicester and Ipswich.
10:52 And obviously, you've got that same situation with the bottom three.
10:55 The difference is, obviously, is they're not picking up points anywhere near the rate that
10:58 teams are towards the top of the table.
11:00 So I think the three teams that are in the bottom three at the moment are the three favourites
11:04 to go down.
11:05 And I don't think you could really argue with that particularly.
11:07 I mean, obviously, something could change.
11:09 I think, as you sort of talked about here, the Christmas period's key.
11:14 Games come in thick and fast.
11:15 And if anybody can get on a run over that period, you could quickly amass a couple of
11:20 wins in the draw or whatever in a few games over the Christmas period into new year.
11:25 That could make a huge difference down there at the bottom of the table.
11:28 Because I think the thing is down there as well, if you do manage to pick up a couple
11:32 of points, even if it's something like four points out of six games or something like
11:35 that, because of the very nature of the battle that those teams are in, the chances are that
11:39 you'll make very, very big ground.
11:40 Obviously, at the top of the table, we've seen plenty of times this season already where
11:45 Leeds have won, for example, but everybody else has too.
11:47 And that hasn't really made too much difference.
11:48 Obviously, Chef Wednesday did Leeds a favour.
11:50 I think if you were going to make a prediction at the moment, you would probably say that
12:10 the bottom three would stay as it is.
12:12 But that's not to say things can't change, because obviously, as we know, this division,
12:16 A, it throws up surprises and B, it's relentless in terms of the number of fixtures.
12:21 But I just think for all three, the festive period, given the games coming thick and fast,
12:26 will be key.
12:27 But I can see where that's coming from, the optimism around Chef Wednesday.
12:30 It's a tall order, obviously, but that result even could be a springboard.
12:34 That's the sort of game that they've gone into.
12:37 Obviously, everybody would have fancied Leicester to have gone there and got a few goals for
12:41 sure.
12:42 I was looking at the scores and running that Ellen road.
12:45 Even when they were one nil up, I just thought, "Well, that's done."
12:48 That's what people probably would have thought.
12:49 I'm sure everybody would have thought the same.
12:52 Even that one draw, that late equaliser, obviously, yes, I can see where Alex is saying about
12:57 you've got to take into consideration that ultimately Huddersfield got the win as well.
13:04 That might be a launchpad.
13:05 We'll talk about the top of the table.
13:06 Southampton, you look at them, that win against Leeds, they haven't lost since.
13:10 I think it was three or four defeats in a row before they played Leeds.
13:13 One big result is a bit of a cliche, but quite often true.
13:17 It really can turn things around.
13:19 I wouldn't rule them out at all.
13:21 I think if you had us on the block in a minute, you'd probably say bottom three would probably
13:25 stay as it is.
13:26 We'll stick with you there, Liam.
13:27 We'll look at the top end of the table where the top two have consolidated their place
13:35 and, if we're completely honest, don't look like shifting anytime soon.
13:43 The Leeds are just continuing to knock on the door there, just keeping those two teams
13:49 on their toes, really, with the way that they've been playing.
13:52 It just seems to be, for the odd draw here and there, they appear to be almost a model
13:59 of consistency, really.
14:02 Given the turbulence of the last couple of years and the mad way that they played under
14:12 Bielsa, where you weren't entirely sure what was going to happen next, it's probably quite
14:20 nice to just have a nice run where things are just steady and you're playing quite well
14:25 and picking up points and just moving along as things go.
14:29 Yes, definitely.
14:30 There are still quite a few similarities, unfortunately.
14:32 I'm not saying unfortunately, because the football under Bielsa was breathtaking, obviously,
14:36 and resulted in promotion.
14:39 There are still common themes that were around then, and the main one of those is finishing,
14:42 really.
14:43 That's the one thing that is letting Leeds down, pure and simple, is not taking enough
14:47 chances.
14:48 That was the same under Marcelo Bielsa as well.
14:49 Obviously, in the end, it didn't matter when they went up in style.
14:53 Even the other night, in the 3-1 victory against Swansea, 3-1 in the end was comfortable enough.
14:59 Dan James said in his post-match press conference, post-match interview, and I think he was totally
15:03 right that they could have scored a lot more, maybe five or six or something like that.
15:06 Swansea had a couple of chances themselves and got forward.
15:09 They were mainly threatening through corners and stuff, really.
15:11 They certainly had a go and caused a few issues.
15:14 But again, Leeds should have had more goals and should have had Daniel Varka talk about
15:18 the xG after the game.
15:19 I'm not surprised, because they did have lots of chances again.
15:22 I think that's going to be really key to them this season, taking the chances.
15:26 It's already cost them a few times this season.
15:28 Let's be honest, they went into that game on the back of the 1-1 draw at Rotherham.
15:34 That's a game that they've gone into looking to win, and it's a game they should have won.
15:37 They're 1-0 up after five minutes, plus so many chances to put the game to bed.
15:42 Just watching that, you're just thinking there's always a danger when you're only 1-0 up.
15:47 They need to avoid that situation happening too many times again, because that is what
15:50 really could cost them.
15:51 But I've got to say, I think there's a very good chance they'll finish in the top two.
15:56 Whether or not I would say I think they will, it's a difficult one.
16:01 I could honestly see it going either way, but I think they've got a very, very good chance.
16:03 The thing to look at when you look at the top of the table, there's a few different factors to consider.
16:08 Number one is obviously the fact that Leeds were playing catch-up from the start of the season.
16:12 I know you can say that everybody had the same issues to deal with in terms of
16:17 certainly Leicester in terms of going down, and Southampton as well.
16:20 Ipswich is a different ballgame, obviously, having come up.
16:22 But Leeds had a pretty poor start, two points out of nine, and they're always playing catch-up
16:26 from that perspective.
16:27 Daniel Farker always said they'd be better as the season went on, and that's definitely
16:30 proven the case.
16:32 I think if the season started now, obviously it doesn't, so it's a bit of a moot point.
16:35 But I think you'd strongly fancy Leeds to finish top two, maybe even going up as champions.
16:40 But that's not the case.
16:41 They've got to make this ground up.
16:43 But the other thing to look at is the rate of points at the moment.
16:46 And they are slowly but surely chipping away at this gap, which at the moment now is down
16:52 to obviously eight points to Leicester and seven to Ipswich.
16:55 And that's still a decent enough gap, but it's not massive.
16:58 It's not double figures anymore, which it has been.
17:00 And obviously, had Leeds lost at Leicester, it would have been near enough double that.
17:03 And obviously, they won at Leicester, and they've slowly got that gap down.
17:06 And even the other night, that Chef Wednesday equaliser, that's a big deal.
17:09 That makes the difference, obviously, going from 10 points down to eight.
17:12 And as I say, that gap's not enormous.
17:15 The other thing to think about, to consider with it, is the games they've got to go as well.
17:18 Leeds have obviously already gone to Leicester, and they've gone to Ipswich, and obviously
17:21 beat both of them.
17:22 So they've got to play both of them at Ellen Road.
17:24 And obviously, both those games could go anyway.
17:27 But Leeds have won six on the trot at Ellen Road.
17:30 So they don't have to fancy chances against anybody, really.
17:32 Ipswich have to play Leicester twice.
17:34 So obviously, both can't get six points in both of those games.
17:38 And also, the rate of points.
17:40 I mean, you look at the form table I've got in front of me now.
17:42 Leeds are on 13 points over the last six games.
17:45 Leicester are on 10.
17:46 And Ipswich are on 11.
17:47 I mean, that's only two points and three points better than those two teams.
17:51 But that's over the last six games.
17:52 And if you multiply that by, in terms of how many games are left this season,
17:56 basically on the current rate of points they're picking up,
17:58 Leeds would probably end up finishing in the top two.
18:00 So there's a lot to be optimistic about at Ellen Road.
18:05 I think Friday at Rotherham was a massive, massive missed chance.
18:08 And I do half wonder if that will come back and haunt them.
18:11 But they've certainly got the squad to be able to do it.
18:14 And I just think that taking chances is going to be key.
18:17 I think in every game they get--
18:19 every team's going to have the odd bad game.
18:20 But they're going to, by and large, be on top of most games.
18:23 They need to just make sure they stand their authority down by taking chances.
18:27 But it'd be fascinating to see how it plays out.
18:29 Similarly with Wednesday, with the lack of--
18:34 well, Leeds don't really have a lack of goals.
18:36 But they need somebody--
18:37 essentially, they're playing with almost like three number 10s, really,
18:42 with the attacking threat that they have.
18:45 They're not outnumbered strikers, are they?
18:47 So they're relying on the likes of Broder and James
18:51 to kind of dig them out.
18:53 Are they going to have the chance to bring in a striker in January?
19:00 Or is it kind of hope that maybe Bamford hits a bit of form at some point
19:05 and just kind of drags them through?
19:08 Yeah, I think the latter is probably more likely.
19:11 Daniel, we've already sort of talked about the January window.
19:15 And I think, by and large, we're expecting it to be sort of reasonably chilled out
19:18 and quiet, certainly by Leeds United standards.
19:21 If anything, I think the biggest issue at Leeds
19:23 might be holding on to the best players they've got.
19:25 I mean, there's surely going to be interesting Christ-Senza of Somerville.
19:29 I mean, every game, he looks like the star player, really, him or Routier.
19:34 And I dare say there'll even be interesting Routier.
19:36 I know he's still a relatively fresh signing
19:39 in terms of only coming in the January transfer window.
19:41 But he just looks head and shoulders above a championship footballer to me,
19:46 especially if he starts to add a bit more of an end product to his game,
19:49 which we saw the other night with a fantastic finish.
19:51 So those two in particular, Archie Gray as well,
19:54 is bound to be interesting.
19:55 Him, he's still very young.
19:56 But as much as you talk about who they might bring in,
19:59 I think almost possibly a bigger part of the equation for Leeds
20:03 is can they keep everybody?
20:04 I think they probably will.
20:05 And they'll certainly try to.
20:07 But, you know, it's difficult in football when, obviously, money talks
20:10 and it depends who comes in.
20:11 But that, to me, is going to be key in terms of can they get another striker?
20:15 Well, the opportunity is obviously there.
20:16 The window's open in January.
20:18 And I think they'll definitely have money.
20:19 I mean, obviously, the 49ers, you know, aren't sure of a bubble, too,
20:23 to put it mildly.
20:24 So if they need to, they probably could do that.
20:26 But they just seem to work very well together, Routier and Pirro up front.
20:30 And I don't think there's much chance of Bamford getting in at the moment
20:33 over and above those two.
20:34 So with him, it's can he come off the bench?
20:38 And it was interesting, Graeme Smith, our chief football writer,
20:40 did a piece post-match on the game.
20:42 And he actually said, which is a bit of an unobvious point
20:44 that you wouldn't naturally think about.
20:45 But it was a good point, which is that maybe people like Bamford
20:48 could ultimately hold the key to Leeds going up,
20:51 purely because they're going to need extra goals.
20:54 And people like him coming from the bench,
20:55 getting one or two here or there, could make a massive difference.
20:59 You can tell he's desperate for a goal.
21:00 He came on the other night.
21:02 I think he'd probably say he had four chances.
21:03 But they weren't like golden chances.
21:06 People would probably roll their eyes and think,
21:07 "Oh, Bamford's missed four chances."
21:08 But I think that'd be a bit unfair
21:10 because none of them were particularly easy chances.
21:12 And he did look quite bright and lively.
21:15 But no, I think in terms of the strike and options,
21:18 it'll probably just stay as it is.
21:19 The big debate at Leeds has always been
21:22 when they signed Joel Peru from Swansea,
21:25 everybody was rejoicing about Leeds have finally signed
21:28 a prolific and informed number nine.
21:32 And then obviously he starts playing more or less
21:34 as a number 10, as you sort of alluded to.
21:37 But I think Daniel Farke has got quite annoyed
21:39 by the number of times he's been asked about that
21:41 in terms of saying those various explanations he gave to it.
21:46 But by and large, they just think that works best.
21:48 And it's different being a number nine at Swansea
21:50 to it is at Leeds.
21:51 And they do seem to link up pretty well.
21:53 So no, I think it will stay the same.
21:57 That's not to say they won't be looking.
21:58 But I think the two things are really that,
22:00 A, it's holding on to what they've got.
22:02 And I think it's a very good point you make
22:03 about Patrick Bamford.
22:04 I think him chipping in and even just getting
22:07 a handful of goals could make a big difference.
22:10 He's obviously a confidence player.
22:12 Bamford, most strikers are.
22:13 You can tell he's desperate for a goal.
22:15 And I do think he's the sort of player
22:16 if he gets one off the bench,
22:18 you might start to get a couple.
22:19 But it's getting that first one first and foremost,
22:21 isn't it really?
22:23 Alex, we'll bring you in finally just to talk a little bit
22:25 about the topials.
22:26 You saw Sheffie Winsley play Leicester last night.
22:29 But you also came along on the ride with Ipswich
22:33 last season, who came up with Wednesday.
22:36 And obviously the fortunes are stark in difference
22:41 so far for those two promoters.
22:44 What do you make of those two teams
22:46 who make up the top two at the minute?
22:50 Yeah, looking down at the subs bench that Leicester had,
22:54 I mean, they brought Wilford and Didi,
22:58 Gillespie Hall, Hamza Chowdhury,
23:01 I mean, Kelechi and Accio.
23:07 It's apples and pears really.
23:11 It's cheating.
23:12 It is cheating.
23:13 And I must say that I felt the same against Leeds,
23:15 looking at Routier and Nantes, Somerville,
23:19 against a Wednesday side that cost a combined,
23:22 I think, 1.2 million.
23:24 I'll join the game at Ellen Road.
23:25 So yeah, it certainly is.
23:28 Ipswich, I very smugly have been telling everyone
23:32 who will listen, which isn't many people.
23:35 That's great.
23:36 Thanks, Alex.
23:37 Thanks, Lee.
23:38 That's us for this week on Everything But The Prem.
23:40 We'll be back next week for another look at life in the EFL.
23:45 Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you again next time.
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