Category
😹
FunTranscript
00:00 This podcast with director Jeffrey Walker is brought to you by JMC Academy, Australia's
00:07 leading creative education provider. With degrees in film, acting, entertainment management,
00:13 design, music, audio engineering, animation and game design, JMC has a course for every
00:18 type of creative. Search JMC Academy to learn more. And you can stream Jeffrey Walker's
00:23 TV series, The Artful Dodger on Disney Plus now.
00:28 Hello and welcome to the Variety Australia podcast. I am your host Poppy Reid, and today's
00:33 episode features a truly exceptional guest, Jeffrey Walker. He's a trailblazing director
00:39 and producer and his career began as a child actor and evolved into directing, earning
00:45 him widespread acclaim. His directorial brilliance has been recognised with numerous awards,
00:50 including the AFI Young Actors Award and multiple Australian Directors Guild Awards. Known for
00:55 his work on the recent Artful Dodger, which I have been binge watching on Disney, Modern
00:59 Family, another show that is my favourite, and Young Rock, incredible show. Jeff's remarkable
01:05 contributions to both Australian and international cinema have me very, very excited to have
01:10 this chat today here at JMC Academy in Melbourne in front of a live audience. Welcome, Jeff.
01:20 I want to go all the way back to when you were nine years old and you were cast as the
01:26 beloved Bronson in Round the Twist. Firstly, what was that experience like and how did
01:33 that background in acting, and especially as a young person, influence your approach
01:39 to directing? And then I've got another question around that, but I don't want to put too many
01:44 questions in the one question.
01:47 By the time that I was doing Round the Twist, I was nine years old. I think I'd been acting
01:53 for two years by then, so I felt like a seasoned pro starting at seven. And I'd worked on another
01:58 couple of kids' shows, but the thing with Round the Twist is that the audition that
02:03 I did was for the second season. So the first season I'd watched at home with my sister
02:07 and absolutely loved on. It was on Sunday morning on Channel 7. We'd wake up and watch
02:11 it and absolutely love it. And then a couple of years later, the original Bronson had grown
02:16 too old to play Bronson, and so I was able to go in and audition and do it. And it was
02:21 just an amazing experience, beautiful scripts and great people, and it's just one of those
02:24 rare things that all these years later now, 30-something years later, it still comes back
02:29 and comes up in conversation. It's just one of those never-ending pieces that I've been
02:36 a part of, I guess. And I think even next year they're doing a musical version of it
02:41 live on stage, which is kind of crazy.
02:43 Are you involved?
02:44 No, I don't think I could play the dad maybe now or something, I'm not sure. But yeah,
02:48 so it was just one of those really lucky ones to have been a part of. I remember I think
02:52 on seasons three and four, the Queen visited the set and it had this sort of odd kind of
02:57 young, now it's very retro and people haven't thought about it in 20 years and they hear
03:01 the theme song and it comes back up in their head. So it certainly launched in terms of
03:06 the next six or seven years, the time that I spent acting as a young teenager and so
03:11 on. It was the project that kind of kept me busy all that time. But I definitely, as you
03:16 were sort of alluding to, I was really in a state of training from a very young age
03:22 for what I wanted to do, which was work behind the scenes. I wasn't sure exactly as what,
03:26 but I knew that I loved acting, but I was really keen to sort of move behind the camera.
03:31 And so I treated my 10 years as a young actor until the age of 17 as an apprenticeship to
03:37 become a director.
03:38 Secretly, secretly doing an apprenticeship.
03:39 That's it.
03:40 And did it change the way that you now work with young actors and child actors? I guess
03:46 that experience and being on the front end of the camera, how did that change the way
03:50 that you deal with those types of actors behind the camera?
03:54 Yeah, well, I've got young kids as well. So in terms of being on set, it's sort of the
04:00 immediacy of dealing with young people and all that kind of stuff is my day to day life
04:06 as well. So that probably is more present because you just sort of know the natural
04:11 sort of rhythms that a kid who's 10 or whatever has and kind of when they get tired and when
04:16 they'd be on their game and what sort of emotion they might be trying to access to perform
04:20 a scene and so on. And I do think I probably got a sense of what it is like to be on set,
04:27 how much fun it can be, how much... It's a real high to be on set because it's really
04:32 exciting and as a kid you feel like, "Oh, that could just keep going forever." And you
04:37 know that not for everyone it can. So I think I'm very sensitive to the fact that it's an
04:41 amazing, incredible experience when you're there and you've got to sort of, I guess,
04:46 make them feel like they're supported and that their identity isn't completely wrapped
04:49 up in that and that beyond that they're still going to have a great time in their life and
04:54 other things. So there is a bigger consciousness that sometimes comes in when I'm working with
04:58 young actors. On The Clearing recently we had lots of young kids who were in a cult
05:03 and it was really like high sort of drama and a very stressful sort of psychological
05:08 thriller and the key to that one was just to get the kids in last minute and shoot the
05:12 scenes that were quite stressful to film, then go back to the nice, light, fun set as
05:16 quick as possible and get them off set again and that was it. So I'm sort of always trying
05:20 to work out ways to make it enjoyable and make sure we also get the performances we
05:24 need to get as well.
05:25 Yeah, so there's a psychological safety thing that you need to be aware of, I guess,
05:28 with these kids and then also you mentioned making sure that they're not tying their
05:32 identity to the identity of their character in a way. How does that work when you're
05:36 on set?
05:37 Well I think that, you know, from a very young age they all sort of appreciate that they're
05:40 using their imagination and that they're pretending and that they're acting and all
05:43 that kind of stuff, you know, and the young fellow that I'm working with at the moment
05:46 is only like five years old and he's cheeky and fun like every five year old but he really
05:50 understands, like some kids I would never say action because then they start acting
05:53 and it gets all weird and not real. This little one, you know, you say action, he slides into
05:58 his character and he's got to be mean, he's got to be this, he's got to be happy, he's
06:00 got to, you know, wrestle, he's got to remember a certain thing. He's unbelievable. And I
06:04 always try to work with a, you know, a dramaturge on set as well, someone who's a really, because
06:08 I'm busy doing, you know, lots of stuff and they, you know, kids need that nice continuity
06:12 of somebody who's always with them and so I can sort of, you know, if I'm getting through
06:16 it's great and then I can go and whisper to Greg Saunders who's terrific, been doing
06:19 it for, you know, 20 odd years or something, I can go, "Yeah, let's try this, I'll try
06:22 that," and then he'll just do a little, you know, whisper and he gets the sort of the,
06:24 I guess, the rhythm.
06:25 What's their role called? A drama...
06:27 Dramaturge.
06:28 T-U-R-G?
06:29 Mm-hmm.
06:30 What is this?
06:31 So they would work, they can, they work on, you know, grown-up movies too and so basically
06:35 not to say that, you know, some directors aren't, you know, performance directors, sometimes
06:39 they're busy or whatever, but if you've got to build an ensemble then you might get effectively
06:42 like someone to come in and it's like, you know, you're studying acting again. So, you
06:47 know, instead of it just being like, "Okay, there's the page, there's the scene, you're
06:49 going to sit over there and do this," it's like, "Let's do some homework on this thing
06:52 and let's try some improv and who are these characters?" And so it gives an opportunity
06:55 during a rehearsal process that sometimes the director's busy, location scouting and
06:59 doing other things, it's an opportunity for the ensemble to spend time together.
07:03 It's not really common on a, you know, an adult film set, you know, but it does happen
07:08 and it happens in rehearsal periods for films quite a bit, but certainly for kids, you know,
07:12 having someone basically like a, yeah, drama coach effectively there to, you know, to help
07:16 them do it. I mean, my thing is like with kids, I don't want their parents to ever run
07:20 the lines with them, that's not their role at all. I don't want, you know, kind of, "Smile,
07:23 you're on camera." You know, I don't want any of that stuff. I just always say to the
07:26 parents, "All you've got to do is be there for a hug and a cuddle and a chat and, you
07:29 know, that kind of stuff and we'll take care of everything else." Teach them the lines
07:33 as late as possible so they're not like learning them and sounding like a robot and, you know,
07:36 all that kind of stuff. Or sometimes I'll just stand by the camera and say the line,
07:39 they repeat it back and we get it and we move on. So, there's like a million little techniques
07:43 I'm trying to employ to get that sort of naturalistic performance.
07:46 And being a dad would help too.
07:47 It does.
07:48 Yeah.
07:48 Yes, because they're all little ones. And I was thinking the other day, I saw our little
07:51 five-year-old on set, I was like, "I wonder how I'm going to get my five-year-old to do
07:54 any of this stuff?"
07:55 Why have you never brought them in?
07:57 It's coming. My middle boy who looks, he's eight and looks exactly like I did in 'In
08:01 Round the Twister', shocker red hair and all this sort of stuff. He's like, "Dad, I'd like
08:05 to be in your movies now." I'm like, "Okay, pressure's on now."
08:07 You're like, "I know a guy, maybe I can sort it out."
08:11 And there's another, you know, talking about the dramaturge, there was another thing that
08:15 I learned about recently, which is the director's attachment. So a director who can shadow you,
08:21 but they're not a director yet. And it's something that not every director does. It's actually
08:25 quite a beautiful contribution to our emerging professionals within the industry. And it's
08:30 something that you do.
08:32 And something that I have done many times over. And in the audience today is Peter Dodds,
08:36 who produced Neighbours. And the very first attachment that I did was to do, you know,
08:41 two blocks on Neighbours with a mentor director. And that mentor director, because of the way
08:45 they shoot that show, it's five episodes per block. And in the first block that I shadowed,
08:48 I was able to direct a whole episode of that show. And the scenes are spread out over the
08:52 days of the shoot. So you're just dropping in and doing a scene every now and then. And
08:55 on the second block, through that attachment program, through Film Vic at that stage, you
08:59 know, I was able to do two episodes. So suddenly I had three episodes and Peter could make
09:02 the decision, "All right, we'll take a chance on you and you can come and direct."
09:05 So-
09:06 Shout out to Peter.
09:07 Shout out to Peter. So yeah, and I did, and I've since then, even when I've worked in
09:11 the States, you know, when I did Modern Family, I was booked to work on it, but I shadowed
09:16 on it before I came out and attached myself to another director and asked a million questions
09:20 and sat on set and watched it all. And then when you start, you know a little more about
09:23 it. And similarly now, you know, with, I would say probably, I think every project, or if
09:29 not, you know, every other, it feels like every project, you know, there's a director's
09:33 attachment who comes through and work with them. And, you know, that sometimes it's kind
09:37 of, you know, it's mostly observational. I'm not always able to, you know, give over scenes
09:41 and stuff because everyone's very precious because of the, you know, I guess the budget
09:44 range and the stuff that we're making and so on. But, you know, in pre-production, they're
09:47 able to see how all the meetings work. They're able to look at a, you know, they've worked
09:50 a little bit in film. Normally the attachments have done something. They've either made a
09:54 short, they've worked a little bit in, they've just started working in television or something
09:57 in this, they're witnessing maybe a scale of production they haven't seen before. And
10:01 so, you know, you're sort of hopefully arming them with what should be the last port of
10:05 call before taking whatever that next step may be.
10:08 So, for anyone in the audience that might want to become a director's attachment, how
10:12 do you do it? How could they possibly be given, you know, that kind of gift that you were
10:18 given?
10:19 Well, there's like official ones through all of the state funding bodies. Sometimes the
10:23 Australian Directors Guild will do them. There might be some initiatives through Screen Australia
10:26 as well. There's a lot of qualifying things that are kind of really annoying to people
10:31 because, you know, they read them and they go like, "How do I get that experience? You
10:34 want me to have experience, but I need this to get that experience." So, there is a rigmarole
10:38 like all those bureaucracies and all this, you know, the funding body things, you know,
10:42 but they do create opportunities and they get behind people and champion them and it's
10:47 competitive and it's stressful and all those things to compete, you know, to get those
10:51 ops.
10:52 And so, but if you can persevere and keep chatting to whatever the state funding bodies
10:56 are, they are there, you know, for you and for us as filmmakers and they're used to getting
11:01 bugged by people who, you know, want to get that break. And so, there's a million things
11:06 on the website about it and you can call them and email them and do all those things, but
11:09 there's a lot of qualifying things that you have to meet before you can sort of be in
11:13 consideration.
11:14 I love that that's the process and it's not a, it's who you know kind of thing.
11:19 No, it's not.
11:20 Like, do you have a mate that's a director or, you know, like that's a very common thing
11:24 within the music industry. It is very much a who you know industry and a lot of interns
11:28 will...
11:29 Yeah, it's official, you know, like I'll always, you know, lots of friends were like,
11:32 "Hey, when you're shooting this next thing, can I come and visit?" Maybe they've worked
11:35 in other departments, GRIP or whatever it might be and they're like, "I want to, you
11:37 know, start directing stuff." I'm like, "Well, come visit any time. Hang out on set for a
11:40 week." And we do those ones as well, you know, helping a friend out. But the official ones
11:44 are very official and, you know, you have to have the, yeah, runs on the board, so to
11:47 speak.
11:48 And probably when you learn the most as well because it's an official.
11:49 Absolutely. And also, it's when you put it on your CV, it's, everyone knows. I know if
11:53 I see that on a CV, they've had to vie really hard to get it. And, you know, and that's,
11:58 I guess, the thing of, yeah, the funding bodies are sort of everyone who receives funding
12:02 for anything in any capacity, everyone knows that they've been vetted and gone through
12:06 a big process to achieve that. So you can go, "I did that." And you go, "Oh, I can
12:09 instantly see the six months of work that it took to make that happen." And, yeah,
12:13 and that's something to be respected and appreciated.
12:15 And you mentioned Modern Family just a little bit before. You've also done Young Rock.
12:19 You were also the executive producer on Amy Poehler's Difficult People 2. You've had some
12:25 really impressive credits in the US. How did you break the US?
12:30 Well, the first time I went over there, I think that because I'd started acting as a
12:34 kid and I really viewed the film industry as, you know, it was like going to be a lifelong
12:41 pursuit. And I would have viewed it as a young person, you know, with being besotted by,
12:47 you know, big Hollywood directors and Hollywood in general. Hollywood was like, you know,
12:50 going to the Olympics, you can compete in every other track meet in the world, but until
12:54 you go to the Olympics and figure out, you know, can you compete at that level. For me,
12:58 I had sort of Hollywood put on that sort of level. So it wasn't so much like, I've got
13:02 this film that, you know, I've got to go over and take my story, my unique voice over. I
13:06 was just like, "I've got to go to Hollywood."
13:08 You want to play with the big kids' play.
13:09 It's just as simple as that dream, because it started when I was seven or eight years
13:12 old. And so I was trying to make choices of projects that would help that journey and
13:17 just sort of work out whether it was somewhere that I could work and prove myself and all
13:21 those sort of things. And then I went over and I tried to take a few meetings with agents,
13:26 but I had a list of shows that at that time, very different now, but at that time, Australian
13:31 shows really weren't travelling to the States, so they could watch it, but they probably
13:34 didn't know if it was the best show or the worst show being made in Australia. It was
13:36 like, "Yeah, that's pretty good. Maybe. You know, what else is coming out of there?"
13:41 So then eventually it sort of built that there was more things that had a tiny bit more currency.
13:46 Eventually one agent took a chance on me.
13:48 Who was that agent?
13:49 So I'm still with him now. It's Michael Pio. They're an innovative artist, which is kind
13:54 of like there's three or four very big agencies, and they'd be like the agencies below them.
13:59 And they're terrific. They work with Cruise, and they have a big literary department. They
14:03 have fabulous actors as well and all that kind of stuff. But they were definitely in
14:07 that sort of like, you know, I always, I don't know if he likes this comparison or not, but
14:12 Michael really had to be a door-to-door shampoo salesman, convincing people to get something
14:17 that they had no idea that they needed really because-
14:19 That's who you need, an advocate like that.
14:21 Absolutely. And he had to really go to work. And traditionally, agents are wonderful at
14:26 managing offers, but I was not in that space at all. It was like he had to convince people
14:30 to meet. "Why would I meet with this person?" He just kept working and working and working
14:33 and working. And then eventually, yeah, someone took the time to watch all the material and
14:38 everything. And then I did a lot of work at 20th for eight or nine years before COVID
14:45 and stuff. It just was a nice busy time.
14:47 And you were based there?
14:49 I would come and go. So yeah, because I was always making projects back in Australia as
14:54 well. And so the projects that I make in the States often is short, to do Modern Families
14:58 only eight days. It was three days of prep, and you shoot the next week. And then if you
15:02 want to fly back home, whatever. So sometimes I go over and string a few things together.
15:06 Sometimes I go, "Oh, I'm in post-production." And if I had a kind Australian producer, I'd
15:10 say, "Listen, can I sneak over to the States and work on this show I really love?" And
15:12 they're like, "Yeah, go on." And so I'd disappear for a couple of weeks and come back.
15:18 But I did, when I was doing the Amy Poehler show, Difficult People in New York, that was
15:21 the most consistent. We were living in New York for four months at a time because it
15:24 was a big one. We were directing 10 episodes of a show at once. And what that meant was
15:31 that we could go to fabulous big guest actors that were friends of the showrunners and that
15:36 they'd worked with and collaborated with and say, "Is there one day in the next five months
15:39 you could give us on the show?" It was a very hard thing to say no to. So suddenly Julianne
15:43 Moore would turn up, or Martin Shaw, all these fabulous people. So it was a very, very special
15:47 three years making that show.
15:49 Amazing. And what I find really interesting about you, Jeff, is that yes, you've built
15:53 all these relationships in the US. If you wanted to be based there, if you wanted to
15:57 raise your children there, you absolutely could. But you've chosen not. You want to
16:02 be based in Australia and you largely want to work on Australian productions at the moment
16:06 anyway. Why is that?
16:08 Well I think I've always, I've never left, even though I'd leave for little passages
16:13 of time. I've grown up in this film business and it's shaped who I am. I love Australia
16:20 and I love living where we live and all that kind of stuff. The quality of life for my
16:25 family is very important, as it is for all mums and dads and stuff. And yeah, we feel
16:32 really happy here. And I would say too that the quality of both scripts now, in the last
16:38 few years as well, budgets and actors, there's nowhere in the world that I would be offered
16:43 a better combo of those things. And as recently as The Dodger, with our three leads in that,
16:49 if you were making that show in any budget range, anywhere in the world for any studio
16:52 or network or whatever, you would cast the exact same people. So suddenly you're like,
16:58 yeah, what would possibly drive me to go and do this anywhere else?
17:03 And I love Australian crews and I just feel really happy here. And the projects are travelling,
17:09 they're all travelling around the world, both Dodger and the clearing on Hulu in the US.
17:15 And so there's not this barrier where you make it here and let's hope a few hundred
17:18 thousand people see it. And that's the hope that I had for a long time when I was working
17:21 on Australian projects. And nowadays it's like, yeah, the sky's the limit for these
17:25 shows. And you get to showcase all of your fabulous Australian buddies and collaborators'
17:29 work to the world. And so I'm chuffed to be here doing it.
17:34 It's such a beautifully shot series as well. When you watch it, you're like, this is a
17:40 global cinematic experience. However, it's soundtracked by these incredible Aussie hits
17:46 as well. You've got Jet in there, you've got The Living End in there. It's amazing. You've
17:50 got Wolf Mother as the opening track. I love that. I'm so interested to know, though, how
17:57 do you compare making a series in Australia to making a series in the US? How do those
18:04 two industries, when it comes to making a series, differ?
18:07 Well, the biggest difference, the most intimidating part of working in the States is the drive-up.
18:13 So in one or two ways, if you're on location, you drive past blocks of trucks, city blocks
18:19 full of trucks, and they're all there to make the show. And I'm just dying a thousand deaths
18:23 and stressed. And all of this is, oh my God, what is everyone doing? Oh, it's going to
18:27 be big and all this money. Or if you drive onto a studio lot, as again, if I go back
18:34 to this little kid, all he wanted to do was to work in Hollywood. And you drive onto those
18:39 classic Hollywood lots. Doesn't matter, I did it. Every day that I was over there, I
18:43 worked on so many things for 20th. But every day I drove up to the security and under the
18:47 big archway that you drive under, heart starts racing every single day. So that stuff is
18:52 nerve-wracking. But by the time you actually get on set, it's exactly the same. Because
18:57 you look around, there's your actors, first AD, DP, myself. That's it. So all of that
19:03 layer that stresses me out, that's all there and it's making the machine work. But ultimately
19:08 the process of achieving the scene, whatever the goal of that scene is, or both visually,
19:14 performance-wise and everything else is identical and suddenly just relaxing and you're back
19:17 into your happy place. And working with actors and talented cinematographers and so on. So
19:23 that's where it all sort of, you can take a breath again and it feels very much like
19:27 home.
19:28 Do you have a bit of imposter syndrome?
19:29 Of course.
19:30 Like I wonder, when I imagine you coming up and you're seeing all these trucks and this
19:34 very grand vision of what a US production looks like, a lot of that has to do with,
19:42 I guess, imposter syndrome in a way.
19:45 Everyone in my business has it.
19:46 Can you not look at your awards? I mean, three Actor Awards, six Directors Guild Awards,
19:50 15 nominations for Directorial Works. Come on, Geoff.
19:53 No, no. It never leaves you. Ever. Because I've got people that I look up to and I go,
19:57 "I could never do what they do." And we're doing the same job. And I look at them and
20:01 just go, "They're just so talented. I can't believe it." I joke with my showrunner I'm
20:05 working with at the moment, anytime they do something, they have to correct something,
20:09 which is great. And that's what they're there for. They're helping me tell the story. Because
20:13 I just go, "Oh, here we go. We're going to call that director. It's going to start tomorrow.
20:16 I'm out."
20:17 So, yeah, you always feel like to stay relevant as a director and to keep doing things is
20:23 really hard. And as you get older, you're sort of like, "Okay, well, what I don't have
20:28 is probably the freshness of voice that inevitably I had when I was 25. It just can't be there."
20:33 So now, how do you stay relevant alongside people that I love working with? On Dodge,
20:39 it was Gracie Otto and Corrie Chen, who I think are fantastic. And they're definitely
20:44 an exciting new wave of director coming through in Australia. And so I'm excited to work alongside
20:51 them and try and channel what they're up to. And so, yeah, I'm always trying to improve
20:57 and trying to find that next thing.
20:59 But I would say that even the biggest actors I've worked with, we all suffer from a little
21:03 bit of that and it probably keeps us hungry and grateful.
21:05 Yeah, it serves you.
21:06 Yeah.
21:07 Yeah, it keeps you from-
21:08 It's not a hindrance. I don't think it's crippling. You don't sort of wake up and go, "Oh my God,
21:11 I can't do today. Today is just not going to happen. I'd rather pretend I was sick or
21:14 whatever. I'm being found out." I don't think I'm at risk of that as such. But I do come
21:20 in and sort of think, "Oh boy. Yeah, let's see what we come up with today."
21:25 Yeah.
21:26 Well, that's great. You kind of wake up instead of going, "I can't do it." You wake up and
21:29 go, "I need to do a good job."
21:31 "I need to do a good job." And I was just chatting before to Peter. The thing with being
21:34 a director as well is you can't be, unless you're a really established big film director,
21:39 you can't be good in some. You can't be good across the course of the week at averaged
21:43 out to pretty good. You need to be good in 15 minute increments. You have to be good
21:47 because it's so expensive, the whole process and journey that you're putting everyone through.
21:53 The relationship you have with the actors is so important and with your DP and with
21:56 your producers and everything. You can't have an off 15 minutes and that's quite intense
22:00 for a 70 day shoot or something like that. That's the hyper focus to have that. That
22:08 drive means that you're never resting on your laurels. You're always trying to make things
22:11 as wonderful as you can.
22:13 Yeah.
22:14 And speaking of that relationship that you need to have with your actors, can we talk
22:17 about Tim Minchin because he's such a polymath in my mind. He works in so many different
22:23 sectors in so many different areas and so many different industries even. He's one of
22:28 your actors and you're his director but he's sometimes used to being on the behind the
22:32 scenes part of a film or TV series. What was the dynamic between you two like?
22:38 Well we got a call from Tim to say, "Listen, all of my friends are auditioning or going
22:42 for the show and I think it could be fantastic." And so he said, "Can I have a..." which never
22:47 happens but he's like, "Can I speak to you and your producer?" And I was like, "Sure."
22:50 I didn't know Tim. I think I maybe met him once or twice but wasn't a close friend or
22:53 anything like that. And he just said, "I want to do something on it." And he'd made his
22:58 show Upright and he was the writer and creator and he's very much in that way. And he said,
23:02 "Look, I just want to come in." He goes, "No one really considers me to come in and just
23:07 act in something because I come with more of an auteur sort of background." And he said,
23:11 "If there's something for me, could I have a look and a read?" And of course we had instantly
23:15 like, "Absolutely. Let's find something for you." But it was interesting because he was
23:21 extremely respectful of the process and he didn't need to be the big personality on set
23:28 or anything like that. He was very much, to me and everything, he was like, "Yes, sir.
23:32 Let's go for it." And all this sort of stuff. And he'd come in, he was working with very,
23:34 very good actors on that that he thought were wonderful. David Thouless. And we'd sometimes
23:40 do a line run and he'd go, "Okay, wow. These guys are turning up." And he'd go away and
23:43 do his work for another 30 minutes and come back in. And so he was really, really special
23:48 but he didn't see his position as needing to be the jokester or the big person on set
23:50 or anything. He just turned up to go to work. And I think he also fancies himself as someone
23:54 who would down the track, if not even sooner than down the track, be a director. And so
24:00 he was very close and he wanted to ask me a lot of questions. We hung out a lot on set
24:03 and of course I was just hoping the more time I spent with him, the more talent of his might
24:07 rub off. So I was very happy for the exchange. But yeah, he was absolutely terrific and now
24:12 a dear friend too.
24:13 Was there anything about the experience of The Artful Dodger that surprised you? Anything
24:18 that you experienced where you're like, "Oh, I didn't think that this would happen or this
24:21 would come about or I would experience this kind of feeling?"
24:24 The cool surprise of it was, I think probably that's come from a little bit of experience
24:29 and feeling a little more confident overall with taking on a new project, is that I'd
24:34 planned to shoot the show one way and then we started to rehearse it with Thomas Brodie
24:38 Sangster and David Thouless. And their chemistry and their rhythm together was beautiful. It
24:45 was really beautiful and I thought, "Boy, the worst thing that I could do is try to
24:49 get the... come between their performance with an edit and a cool camera shot and this
24:55 or that."
24:56 And so when I started to see them work, it dawned on me that a lot of this stuff needs
25:01 to be blocked as beautiful one-shot choreographed scenes where they're crossing each other over
25:06 and the lens takes you around this way and then you're on their back for a second. That's
25:09 okay because that line's all right and then they cross over at the right time. And so
25:11 we ended up having a lot of fun with those two being able to drive the blocking of the
25:16 scene and normally you get someone's close-up, particularly in television, there's a close-up,
25:19 there's a close-up, there's a close-up and I realised that that would be butchering their
25:23 otherwise wonderful preparation, homework and ultimately their performance. So that
25:28 was the gorgeous little surprise and we would...
25:31 That seems harder. It seems like it's more impromptu.
25:34 Well, the thing with... their preparation is unbelievable. The thing that I've noticed
25:37 with the really, really big, successful world-class actors is their homework is unbelievable.
25:44 You think that they're going to come in, they look at their size, like forget it. They've
25:48 spent... for me to shoot a scene that might only take 45 minutes sometimes, they've probably
25:52 spent anywhere in the vicinity of five or six hours on it. So when I turn up, chat to
25:56 them about how it's going to play and they have a quick look through the blocking, almost
26:02 like a musician in the orchestra. Have you ever seen like when they get a piece of sheet
26:07 music for the first time, they can play it, right? They're the same. They've done their
26:11 homework, they've done their 10,000 hours effectively, you know, whatever it is across
26:14 the course of their life and so they very quickly get that rhythm and then they turn
26:18 up, the crew know they need to be on on take one because the cast is going to be on on
26:21 take one and then they have the confidence after two or three takes and I look at them,
26:25 I go, "I'm really happy. Is there anything else you want?" They go, "We got it." You
26:28 go, "How easy is my gig?" So, you know, that tier of talent is, you know, they don't get
26:33 lazier or they don't get, you know, deaverish or anything like that. They just get more
26:38 and more pro. The preparation gets better and everyone lifts to those numbers one, two
26:43 and three on the call sheet, you know, and so yeah, it just made it exciting and I tell
26:47 David's only deal was he had to, he wanted me to tell him like the day before or something
26:51 what the blocking might be or which ones are the one-shot scenes, two-minute one-shot scenes
26:55 and I'd rehearse them with a steadicam operator after work or whatever they were because we
26:58 didn't have, you know, a lot of time to shoot. Like we never do, you know, huge amounts of
27:01 time in Australia and then we turn up and everyone had lock-in and you'd know it was
27:06 a, you know, special moment and that's like, you know, that's director Disneyland for a
27:09 minute and then you go back to other stuff.
27:12 Director Disneyland, nice tie-in actually. I was looking at your resume and it's very
27:15 diverse. So, you've got this heartwarming comedy film about a young Muslim man for Ali's wedding
27:21 which I re-watched. Beautiful film and so funny. Oh my God. So, if anyone here who's
27:28 listening or is attending this podcast has not seen Ali's wedding, please check it out.
27:33 And then you've got this psychological thriller about a woman battling a cult in the clearing.
27:37 How do you ensure that you don't lose your unique voice when it comes to your directing?
27:42 Well, I think I'm actively pursuing things that, you know, challenge me. I think I probably
27:47 look at it more like an actor looks at a script when I'm reading it. So, every actor I know
27:50 when they read, you know, something that they're looking for what's challenging in it. You
27:54 know, where is it going to take me and what psychology or emotional space am I about to
27:59 explore and that's nerve-wracking at times. I haven't played that before. And so, when
28:04 I look at material, I'm looking for something that's going to take me somewhere, you know,
28:07 very different. I mean, the clearing was really hard to choose that to say, "Yes, I know it
28:11 was for Miranda Otto as well playing the cult leader." You know, these, you know, got kids
28:16 and they're feeding them LSD and it's awful. And I remember reading it, it stayed in the
28:22 opening scene, like in the opening two pages, a child's kidnapped from the side of the road,
28:26 you know. And I'm looking at it and I'm just kind of like, "Well, all of my spidey sense
28:30 at that point is like, 'This is really heavy and, you know, just go back to doing Modern
28:34 Family and have a laugh and it'll be great.'" And so, but then I also thought, you know,
28:39 well, this script stayed with me. It's beautifully written by Matt and Elise who wrote it. And,
28:42 you know, they're both, you know, kind of Australian gun writers and so on and people
28:46 that, you know, I respected a great deal. And it stayed with me and I couldn't stop
28:50 thinking about it and, you know, I was conflicted, you know, and I thought, "Well, they're all
28:53 the reasons why you should probably jump off the deep end and explore this thing and find
28:58 something out about yourself."
28:59 Not everyone would do that. Some people would go, "It stayed with me because it's traumatic
29:04 and I'm going to run."
29:05 I know. And it was traumatic. It was traumatic for Teresa and I, I think, to make it, even
29:08 though Teresa's lovely, the lead actor, because, I mean, she's got 50 million kids and, you
29:13 know, she's like, you know, feeding, she's like busy and all that kind of stuff. So,
29:16 you know, we both kind of found the lightness to be able to navigate it. But, you know,
29:20 we were all having, like, the sad, scary dreams along the way and all these things that kind
29:23 of go with doing that sort of project.
29:27 But I liked it. I think that probably if I could, you know, attribute the longevity that
29:31 I've had now 20 years of directing would be that I've tried to vary the choices as much
29:36 as possible and challenge myself as much as I can, move between genres as much as I can,
29:41 different formats. Every project in the last few years has been more challenging for one
29:45 reason or another. Not necessarily, you know, to everybody who would watch them and go,
29:49 "Oh, no, that one looked pretty challenging," or whatever. Just for me, there's one layer
29:52 on it that's something that I've never done before, whether it's creative or whether it's
29:56 practical or logistical, something that's drawn me to, you know, trying to find that
30:01 next advancement of the craft, you know, from my own personal point of view.
30:04 Is there a certain film or director or moment that inspired your directing style? Because
30:10 I have a quote here from the executive producers of The Artful Dodger, David Mayer and David
30:14 Taylor, the Davids, who said, "You're incredibly thoughtful, incredibly prepared with a huge
30:20 sense of humour." So where did that style come from?
30:23 Where's your sense of humour is, I think, where you're going to go with that.
30:28 No.
30:29 I don't know. I mean, I thought when I was growing up, the Michael Jordan of my world,
30:34 apart from real Michael Jordan, because he was Michael Jordan at the time I was growing
30:37 up, was Steven Spielberg. So, you know, this like rock star, I couldn't believe now I'm
30:41 doing with my kids that you can watch all of these movies in a row and they're made
30:44 by the one person, you know, you go from E.T. and Raiders. And it was just unbelievable
30:48 to me, you know, as a kid. And so and I think that when I look back on it now, it wasn't
30:54 as much as, you know, the craft with Steven Spielberg's movies are amazing and performances
30:59 are beautiful and all that sort of stuff. They're very affecting emotionally and you
31:02 can watch them a thousand times, all that sort of stuff. It was actually more that just
31:05 they're, you know, they are a movie experience and the feeling that you get, that sort of
31:11 popcorn quality that comes with that sheer entertainment of what, you know, particularly
31:16 in his early films, you know, what was there. That was what drove me to want to do that.
31:20 That was why I wanted to become an actor when I was six and a half years old watching this
31:24 stuff, you know. So I cottoned on very early that there was sort of a painter behind the
31:29 canvas and I was like fascinated by all of that, you know. And of course, not many directing
31:33 gigs for a seven-year-old, so acting was the way in, you know. And then I've just bugged
31:38 all the, you know, directors and cameramen that I worked with for ten years, you know,
31:41 to teach me stuff and learnt as much as I could and started to make short films and
31:46 everything else. But really it was all subterfuge, you know, the acting for what I wanted to
31:49 ultimately do. But yeah, from there and then, you know, of course, you taste broad and all
31:54 that sort of thing. But I think that there's a feeling that I get watching those films
31:57 that I'll never forget where I was the first time I saw them and all that, that feeling
32:01 that I had and that was that kind of capturing of an imagination of a young person and then
32:05 a hyper focus for the next however many decades it has been, you know, on that one thing.
32:10 The other thing that, you know, that capturing of an imagination is such a great way to put
32:14 it because I look at your career and I look at the creativity and the imagination that
32:19 is needed in order to have the career that you've had. But I also think that creativity
32:23 needs momentum. And I wondered, when have you felt that, that fact that creativity needs
32:31 momentum the most?
32:33 Well, do you mean in terms of being prolific in working or do you think in terms of actually
32:39 creating the piece?
32:40 In terms of being prolific, in terms of actually, you know, getting that thing going and having
32:44 that career that you've now got.
32:45 Well, yeah, I mean, it's everything. I think that like momentum is the strongest force
32:49 in the universe, you know, once something starts and you're so lucky if you can taste
32:53 it for a second, you know, and usually even momentum, you know, if you're lucky to have
32:57 it, it ebbs and flows and everything else. You know, I've got the combo of things, which
33:01 is that, you know, I'm so happy on a film set. I'm, you know, just it's, I don't know
33:06 anything else. I'm just so happy in that space and I love the people I work with. I can't
33:11 even express without, you know, to the crew and everybody how grateful I am to them each
33:15 day without choking up. We do a speech at the start of each day. Normally it's about
33:18 safety and where the, what locations we're going to and all that stuff. And I try to,
33:22 you know, bluff my way through being able to, you know, go, "Man, I'm really grateful
33:24 to you guys." And I start choking up. I'm just so happy to be there, right? So what
33:28 that begets, pardon me, what that begets is that, you know, I want to keep doing it all
33:32 the time. I don't get fatigued and burnt out by working on project after project or things
33:36 overlapping and everything. I think it's harder to juggle it with family. I'm very lucky to
33:40 have, you know, an incredible, supportive, wonderful wife who, you know, runs our world
33:44 and everything else. And I make, you know, as much, I take as much time as I can in any
33:49 way, whether it's through pre-production, weekends, everything that, you know, make
33:52 sure that I'm available to the kids and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, it's, you
33:56 know, for better or worse, like the filmmaking side of my life is my identity. It's completely
34:01 wrapped up in it. And it's not when I'm on set. It's like when my feet hit the floor
34:04 in the morning, I'm a director. It's every part of who I am now, you know? So what that
34:09 means is that when the opportunities come up to direct something next and next and next,
34:13 and that post-production is going to overlap with the next pre-production, it's like, "Let's
34:16 get it. Let's go for it." And so, you know, and I think that anyone who's lucky to experience
34:22 momentum in the film business, you know, over a consistent period, you're, you know, you
34:27 have to acknowledge you're in very rarefied air. And if you don't wake up and feel grateful
34:31 for that, my goodness, you know, so when someone calls me and I go and get another gig, I can't
34:35 believe it. And so I'm like a kid again, you know, it's the same feeling.
34:38 It's amazing. Even just chatting to you right before we came onto the stage, you're working
34:41 on a project that we cannot talk about, but it was, it seems so soon after your last project
34:46 and you know, there's this excitement that you have around this unnamed top secret project,
34:53 just because you know that how rare it is to keep that momentum going.
34:56 Absolutely. And I think it builds over years too. I noticed this one actually when David
34:59 Thouless, who's our Fagan in the Artful Dodger, you know, he feels the same, like the longer
35:04 that you can keep doing, I think when you're on the up, when you're sort of, you've got
35:09 an overt ambition, that's probably not you at your best to be completely honest for a
35:13 minute, because you've just got to get that thing and you've got to be focused on that.
35:16 And sometimes, you know, some of the other graces that you might carry in your life,
35:20 you know, get pushed to the side because you're so ambitious and hungry.
35:25 When you get to a point, I guess, where you're able to, you know, work more consistently
35:28 and this is now starting to feel not like one thing I got to do, but this is going to
35:32 be your career. The gratitude builds and builds and builds and builds and builds. And the
35:35 sadness that comes at the end of each project, knowing that you're the first for you're like,
35:39 and I'll see you again. And you're like, actually, you probably won't. And that you, you know,
35:44 everyone works so closely together, collaboration is so enjoyable, everyone, you know, becomes
35:47 great friends and it, because you don't have a social life outside of filmmaking, it's
35:51 90 hours of your week and everything else, they are your social life, you know, and suddenly
35:55 like a tap, it turns off, you know. And so the gratitude builds, the more that you can
35:59 do, it's not the other way around when you go, you know, I've got my first job and that
36:03 was great. And then from then on, I just, you know, turn up, it builds and builds and
36:06 builds. And so, yeah, so each one, and like today I go to work after we, you know, finish
36:09 this chat and I was on a night shoot last night and you just got to hop in your step
36:13 and it's exciting and I'm looking forward to it.
36:15 I feel like the film industry now is very different to when you were a young kid looking
36:20 up at Steven Spielberg going, I got to do that. I got to, I got to be there in it. You
36:25 know, when you look at business models for movies, the metrics are varied in this new
36:30 era and there's less people in theatres, more people are streaming. Given that, how
36:37 do you measure success?
36:39 It's a really good question. The film side of it's really tricky these days because
36:43 the last thing I did, the Portable Door for Stan, which was so much fun, and Christoph
36:48 Waltz and Sam Neill, like it was just the best. I just had so much fun making it. And
36:52 it was the first time really that I'd made a film that's an indie film. I'd made
36:56 two other films but they were very much in the classic indie model of film that you have
37:00 a cinema thing and then hopefully it sells to a streamer. This was a streamer film and
37:03 the whole thing is very, very different. It did have a very small window that they had
37:07 to put it in the cinemas but they didn't really promote it to the cinemas because Stan's
37:11 bread and butter is not in the cinemas, it's at home and people watch it over the Easter
37:14 holidays was when we made that film for.
37:17 And so in essence you're sort of like, well this actually, you're kind of making it
37:20 more like, it's the highest indie you can imagine, but it's a TV movie. You're
37:23 making it for people to watch at home on the televisions. And of course on that one I had
37:28 big legendary cinematographer Don McAlpine shooting it, who'd made Moulin Rouge and
37:34 all these things. And so it has a big cinema quality but ultimately you know it's going
37:38 to be watched on someone's hopefully large and well calibrated television. Most likely
37:43 not on their phone or something or an iPad.
37:45 So yeah, so it does change what that world is. Who you're making it for, who's your
37:49 audience, how long are people going to watch it for, how are they going to hear about
37:52 it, all those things. And it hasn't stopped me necessarily from sort of going, you know,
37:56 okay well I wouldn't work in film. I very, very happily work in film. But I do need to
38:00 sort of pivot what my mindset is of probably where I'd seen films as recently as ten
38:07 years ago. You know, what an indie film is, a grown up film at the cinema to go and see
38:11 the few and far. And so that's why I'm really thrilled to be working in limited series
38:17 probably as a director is a bit of a jewel in the crown at the moment I would say. You
38:22 know, fabulous actors are drawn to them, wonderful scripts and you get to really see a big character
38:26 arc through over six hours or whatever, four hours of television. And the production values
38:32 are great and you get more money to do it. So like, they're pretty good. So you know
38:35 I think that I'll probably hopefully dip back in and make more films but I probably
38:39 will have my eyes wide open to the different ways that people are experiencing that now
38:43 and hopefully keep skewing things toward the best way that it can be consumed and enjoyed.
38:49 - Beautiful. And I do love like a restricted series. I know I've got to finish because
38:55 sometimes there are seasons where you're like there's seven or eight seasons. I don't know
38:59 if I have the time for this.
39:00 - Well it's also hard when someone's told you and it's five seasons and you're like
39:02 when am I catching up? When am I catching up?
39:04 - When can I get to a point where I can have a conversation with you about this?
39:06 - That's right, exactly.
39:07 - We're all on different levels.
39:08 - And you've got to go and binge it all and everything. So yeah, and that's talk about
39:11 Rare Air. That sort of ongoing eight to 10 eps of a season now that can run for four
39:17 or five or six. I mean that hardly happens in that prestige level. HBO have a handful
39:22 and Netflix have a handful but it's really special. But being able to do limited series
39:27 like The Clearing, which is a start to end, fully wraps itself up in the end. Everything
39:34 pays off and it's one and done. They're really special and it is like making one long movie
39:39 in that way.
39:40 - Amazing. Do we have anyone from the audience who would like to ask Geoff a question? Oh
39:45 we've got one here. Hi.
39:46 - My name's Jack. I lecture film and television. I'm lecturing the actors today. I was curious
39:53 Geoffrey, in terms of your career as an actor, was there a sort of turning point when you
39:59 were I guess chasing jobs as a director, chasing shooting productions? Was there anything attributed
40:07 to it going the other way around? Like my assumption is that you're being sort of head
40:11 hunted and people are coming to you. Was there a shifting point? Could you attribute that
40:16 to anything in particular?
40:16 - That's a great question. Yeah, there's like little director milestones that you hit in
40:23 every space. I didn't pursue a, I didn't come at directing because I had this wonderful
40:27 like sole vision, my script, I'm gonna make this film come hell or high water. I came
40:33 at it in a very pragmatic, I'd been on set a long time, but I didn't have a unique directorial
40:38 voice. I knew how a set ran. I could shoot the day, work well with actors, but I didn't
40:44 have anything unique about me. I was really coming into copy what the director had done
40:47 in the earlier episodes of the show and do my best version of that. So I came into that
40:52 way then and I was really young. So I didn't have much life experience beyond what any
40:57 kid does outside of work and then the fact that I'd done the acting stuff. So yeah, so
41:04 at 20 or whenever it was, I started directing and it was doing episodes of other shows that
41:10 are very, very established as almost like an opportunity to come in and hone it and
41:15 learn. And the first opportunity that I had to set up a show was a big step and that was
41:19 the show Dance Academy and I was offered the first episode of that show, which means as
41:23 a television director, suddenly you're not copying someone else's style and mimicking,
41:27 you're coming in to bring your, you can do it, here's the keys to the car, off you go.
41:31 And they had to support your vision and what vision do I have and what shows was I watching
41:36 at the time? What's going to inspire how we're going to film this show? And what's the performance
41:40 style? What's the music going to be like? All these things I'd never thought about or
41:42 had to think about in the other form and I absolutely loved it and I love the pressure
41:46 of it all. So that, and then after that, then you start to do like one-off, at that time
41:52 it was TV movies were the next step and it was the Jack Irish movies with Guy Pearson.
41:55 So that was another big step. So it's all those little things that kind of help along
42:00 the way to ultimately, yeah, you get to, yeah, but even now with this recent one that I'm
42:06 shooting presently, there was another big step for me to take to do that. And so I think
42:10 that, yeah, there are those sort of big milestone moments that hopefully further qualify for
42:14 some other exciting thing down the track that might challenge you in another way.
42:18 My name's Tom. I work in the Animation and Games Department. I would really like to know,
42:25 because you've worked in comedy a lot, what you would feel that Australia and probably
42:29 also New Zealand, I feel is kind of similar to us, our like strongest areas are in comedy,
42:35 what we do best that maybe the rest of the world, you know, could learn from. And maybe
42:40 also what you'd like to see more of going forwards that you haven't seen for a while
42:43 or you think is an avenue that we could really go down.
42:46 Yeah, that's a great question. I think comedy is interesting, isn't it, because, you know,
42:51 Australia had a sort of, you know, it's had multiple, but it had a film renaissance in
42:55 the early '90s when I was young and so into, you know, the industry and everything else
42:59 in Muriel's and Priscilla and, you know, soon after The Castle and all this sort of stuff,
43:04 you know. And, you know, Australian comedy, it was sort of known throughout the world.
43:09 It had this unique sort of take on, you know, things that specificity made it funny. I think
43:14 New Zealand is probably the best in the world, in the Western world for specificity of culture
43:22 coming through in comedy. If you look at, you know, some English, if you look at great
43:26 rom-coms of, you know, the Brits from, you know, the '90s, if you look at Four Weddings
43:30 and everything, it was so specific to funny British comedy, but it travelled, that specificity
43:34 travelled throughout the world. And so I think when you can sort of, you know, if you go
43:38 broad with something that maybe you try to be universal with something and it's sort
43:42 of, yeah, that's good, you could tell that story anywhere, but it didn't kind of give
43:44 me a little insight. And so maybe Australian comedy, when it's at its best, Colin from
43:49 Accounts, you know, it's sort of like, you know, it taps into an Australian something.
43:54 It's not Australiana and it's not, you know, whatever, but it's unique to a time and it's
43:59 unique to, you know, kind of what, you know, what we're sort of outputting, I guess, in
44:04 that way. In terms of, you know, what I'd like to see more of and what's ahead, I think
44:09 that, you know, there's ultimately the best advice, and this wasn't the case, you know,
44:14 six or seven years ago, but, you know, if you're a creator, is there is a pathway now
44:20 for big ideas to actually be made in Australia. So we used to be able to tell great stories
44:25 within a very small confine. If you think of things like, you know, The Slap is absolutely
44:29 brilliant. It's a very suburban shot in and around Melbourne, not a huge budget, but enough
44:34 to make a good sort of drama. Rake, when I worked on that, was the same. It was fabulous
44:39 actors all shot in and around Sydney for, you know, in the bigger picture, Pittens.
44:43 Now, you know, you have all of that access to all of those wonderful and talented, you
44:47 know, actors or whatever it might be, but you can give it a big grand scope and you
44:54 can actually get financed for it in Australia. The Awful Dodger is created by, co-created
45:00 by Jim McNamara. It's his first showrunning gig and it's like tens of millions of dollars.
45:06 I don't even know what the budget ended up being. It's huge. And he had this big grand
45:10 thing. He wrote this beautiful pilot that attracted all these world-class actors and,
45:13 I mean, that would be unthinkable that an Australian would write The Awful Dodger, you
45:18 know, ten years ago. Like the ABC couldn't have funded it. BBC, Co-Pro, maybe, I don't
45:21 know, you know. But so now I would just urge that, you know, it's okay to have a big idea.
45:26 You don't have to make it your first thing or whatever, but, you know, know that the
45:29 industry has a, you know, the buyers, you know, the streamers, all that sort of stuff,
45:33 they do have a taste for stuff that can travel internationally. It can be specific to Australia,
45:38 but it can hit a big goal and that's what we certainly try to do with The Clearing and
45:42 with Dodger.
45:43 I'm Madeline. I'm also one of the acting students. Obviously a director is a big integral
45:49 part in the pre-production of a show or film or whatever the project is. I was just wondering
45:56 what your main inspirations are in order to transport yourself into the world you're building.
46:01 Like do you listen to like music or like is it artwork and like that sort of stuff?
46:06 That's a great question. I bet you do the same. But yes, music is huge. I can't even
46:11 begin to block a scene or draw on this. I've got a playlist sorted for what the thing is.
46:15 And the more different the playlist is from the last show, the more excited I am. But
46:19 I can't go back to the same piece of Vivaldi over and over. I've got to change it up, you
46:24 know. So, you know, kind of changing, you know, that I go, "Okay, now you need to look
46:28 at it through this space a little bit more." It's really important. I'm a bit like, it's
46:34 probably annoying to most people, but I like everything to be just so. So, you know, if
46:38 I've got, if I'm cluttered or I'm thinking of other things, then the creativity doesn't
46:41 really flow. So, you know, I like to sort of, you know, I've had my little routine and I'm
46:46 sort of set up. I'm a bit old school, so I've got, you know, a beautiful pen and paper when
46:49 I do my work and all that sort of stuff and do all my drawings and storyboarding and all
46:52 that sort of stuff. So I try to create an environment that's conducive to, you know,
46:56 whatever my creative journey is with it. The other thing that I've found is that I like
47:01 to read things over and over and over and over and over and over more times than I used
47:04 to before I start doing all my planning. And I find that, you know, if you rush to the
47:09 execution, so in your case, if you're just learning the lines and I'm building that scene,
47:14 I've got that scene, I've learnt it, terrific, great. You know, you've got a great memory,
47:17 but that's not, you know, performing the scene. The more, don't worry about learning it, if
47:22 you just read it and read it and read it and read it and suddenly it's like a piece of
47:25 cake to learn. The equivalent for that in my case is that then it's so obvious how I
47:29 would shoot the scene because I know what it's actually about. It's not like, "Oh, that's
47:32 a cool shot." Like, who cares if it's a cool shot? It doesn't matter as long as you're
47:34 not telling the story and whose psychology, whose perspective are you in and who's the
47:38 point of view and where's the point of view, you know? Is it subjective or it's objective?
47:42 All those things become really easy once you've just, you know, read it over and over and
47:46 over and over. So, yeah, I've got lots of little things that I try to do and little
47:51 routines and little anal retentive, you know, processes and stuff that, you know, help me
47:56 feel like I'm, you know, giving myself the best chance to be creative and start something.
48:00 But it's also like pacing yourself as well. I think there's, you know, when you're nervous
48:04 and you're starting out, you don't know where you should be at each point. Let's say you're
48:08 about to do a play or something like that. Should I be off book on day one? Do I trust
48:11 myself that I don't need to be and I'll be okay by week two? You know what I mean? It's
48:15 those sort of things. And the more I do it now and I think I try to, you know, because
48:19 ultimately too everyone's stressed during pre-production when I work and everyone's
48:22 doing their, they're all frazzled. There's never enough money and everyone's stressed
48:25 and, you know, no matter how much money you've got, you've never got enough to make the show
48:28 that, you know, everyone wants to make. So, but I always realize that if I'm just nice
48:31 and calm and I'm listening to everybody and taking everything on and everything, then
48:35 everyone picks up on that vibe as well. So, I just go, we'll get there, you know, we've
48:38 done this before and all that stuff. So, yeah, that's it.
48:40 I'm Ben and I'm an acting student as well. And my question was like regarding people
48:50 getting more and more tired of like the big Hollywood franchise machine and like the growing
48:55 success like international success of Australian films along with your own experience working
49:00 both here and in America. Do you think that there's a future in which Australian cinema
49:06 could sit with like on the same level as Hollywood in the UK in terms of like mass consumption
49:12 and acclaim?
49:13 Well, definitely we've got the talent to do it. I mean, you know, if you look at, you
49:18 know, I would class, you know, in the ANZ side of things that, you know, Tyker by association
49:24 makes, you know, his films in Australia with Australians. You know what I mean? Like, you
49:28 know, it's, we definitely have the talent, you know, George Miller recently made for
49:35 some unbelievable amount of money, Furiosa here with, you know, all Australian crew,
49:40 production designers, you know, all this sort of stuff. So, we've got the talent to do it
49:44 in terms of, you know, I mean, you know, they're getting their films financed, they're Australian,
49:47 they're big, they're at the absolute top of the tree, you know, in terms of Australian
49:52 productions, there's nothing, you know, bigger than, you know, the Thor and the Furiosa's
49:55 being made. So, we have the capacity to do it. The harder thing is, yeah, in this climate,
50:01 just, I think period is to pitch something that's original and get it financed to that
50:07 sort of, you know, degree is really hard without the backing of an existing IP, Marvel or something
50:12 else. And I think that we're glad that they're all out there, but there's, you know, it's
50:16 always exciting when you go, you know, there's a new fresh concept and that, you know, it
50:20 could be made in Australia. So, traditionally in Australia, you know, our budget ranges
50:22 haven't, you know, been, you know, particularly, you know, big when it comes to, you know,
50:27 an Australian film or different sort of content or whatever. But, you know, something like
50:31 Portable Door was in essence by today's, you know, standards, it was a very original concept
50:36 based on a series of books, you know, that aren't Harry Potter or anything, they're fabulous
50:40 books but they hadn't, you know, they're not like New York bestsellers. So, it felt original,
50:44 we could have a take on it and we, I think we raised about 20 or 25 million to make it,
50:47 had a wonderful cast, travelled all over the world and, you know, we nominated one a bunch
50:51 of prizes, all this sort of stuff and that was an Australian film written by an Australian,
50:54 directed by an Australian, all Australian crew, mostly Australian New Zealand cast with
50:58 the exception of, you know, Christoph and the Jim Henson Company were, you know, from
51:03 the States were right behind it and helped us make it. So, there is an opportunity for
51:06 sure, you know, for Australia to play in that sandbox, so to speak. And I think that, you
51:10 know, by the time that, you know, the sort of the next generation will be very interesting
51:14 to see, you know, already if you look at the television case, what we were making shows
51:17 for, you know, 800 grand an episode, you know, but a few years ago now maybe 5 million an
51:22 episode you can get for sure. So, if film follows that same sort of path, yeah, anything's
51:27 possible. Hi, I'm Izzy, I'm a film and television student. You guys spoke about the momentum
51:34 of creativity and your pressure to, as a director, to, with budget and time schedule limitations
51:43 that you need to keep moving, how do you think that you maintain that enthusiasm to keep
51:49 going and keep working on one project and avoid burnout or pick yourself up after that
51:55 burnout and keep going? This sounds so lame, but I'm just going to say it, but it's gratitude.
52:01 It's so cheesy, it's like the cheesiest answer, but it's just, yeah, it's overwhelming gratitude.
52:08 I could even get like emotional just talking. It's like to be able to come in, like all
52:12 you guys want to do it, so all I have to do is think about you guys and how much you want
52:16 to do it and I'm doing it. I'm so lucky, I can't believe it. So, you don't get burnout,
52:21 you just, you know, you are tired, but you're so lucky to be doing it. So, yeah, I think
52:28 you pace yourself in the right way. Sometimes I've done shoots and they're a sprint, a 20-day
52:31 shoot. Presently it's a 70-day shoot. It's a very, very different sort of pacing through
52:36 it, you know, to think I'd be wrapping a shoot, a whole shoot this Friday is so crazy to me
52:40 when I'm, you know, I don't know, 15 days or 16 days into a 70-day shoot now. It's so
52:45 different, right? So, you pace yourself differently, you know, but if you're turning up and even
52:50 if it's hard, like if you go home at the end of a shoot day and it's been really, really
52:54 hard and you're thinking about it, you're like, how lucky are you that you care enough
52:58 about what you do that you brought it home. In that way, you're not bringing it home because
53:03 you've got a horrible person, you have to battle at work and all those things that a
53:05 lot of people bring their work home. You bring it home because you care about it and what
53:08 could you have done better and what can I do better tomorrow? So, yeah, so I haven't
53:14 experienced, you know, burnt out. I get tired and I need holiday break every now and then
53:17 like everyone does. But no, it's a, you know, I just feel really lucky.
53:24 I'm feeling a lot of gratitude right now. I'm so thankful for you, Jeff. I'm so thankful
53:30 for our industry that we get to have you here in Australia when you absolutely could be
53:35 based essentially anywhere in the world and that you are keeping your expertise homegrown
53:40 and sharing it with people like myself and the lucky JMC students and experts that are
53:45 here today with us. Thank you so much for your time.
53:47 Thank you for having me, puppy.
53:49 [Applause]
53:51 [Music]