Aleteia interviews Matthew Goode (C.S. Lewis) and Matthew Brown (Director) about their new film "Freud's Last Session"
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Short filmTranscript
00:00 [Music]
00:09 So, a wonderful film.
00:11 Thank you.
00:12 Yeah, a rollercoaster of emotions and wonderful acting.
00:17 Matthew, can I ask you a question?
00:20 So, C.S. Lewis is quite a complex character.
00:24 What did you do to research for the role?
00:27 Yes, I mean, what a complex history the man had.
00:32 I mean, one of the great things about playing a real character,
00:35 particularly when they're famous, is that you do get a lot of documented stuff.
00:38 So, you know, you get the timelines of their lives and everything else.
00:42 And there was a lot of writing that he'd done,
00:45 and so it was nice to be able to go and read some of his work.
00:47 I think he'd only published four novels by that point,
00:49 but I mean, I'd read all of his Narnia stuff when I was a kid.
00:53 And what I didn't know was there was a book by him later on in 1955,
00:57 I think, called Surprised by Joy,
00:59 and that really delves into some of his early life in his own words.
01:04 And he seemed to be a pretty truthful individual.
01:07 So that was kind of fascinating.
01:10 And then, I mean, ultimately, though, I really loved the way the script worked.
01:14 I mean, not only do you see him in his days of atheism and then theism,
01:19 but, you know, when he's converted as well to the mainstay.
01:23 And it's just a real treat to have someone that is that complex.
01:27 But, I mean, you have to throw all that research out,
01:30 and then you have the script, which I thought was beautifully drawn.
01:33 And then just try to bring his humanity.
01:38 Because for periods of time in this, I'm not talking.
01:42 I'm getting batted ideologically.
01:47 I was going to ask you about that, actually, because, you know,
01:50 there's a myriad of emotions.
01:52 There's anger.
01:53 There's absolutely everything.
01:55 And Anthony Hopkins gives such a wonderful portrayal of Freud.
01:59 And was that just not totally exhausting after you did a scene like that?
02:03 You know, because sometimes Lewis responds well and sometimes he's a bit.
02:07 It's seven pages a day.
02:08 And it was exhausting for me as a 40-year-old,
02:11 let alone someone who's in their 80s.
02:14 Yeah, and it was, you know, and also the elephant in the room is that he's
02:20 already played C.S. Lewis in one of my favourite films, Shadowlands,
02:23 back in the day.
02:24 So, you know, I was a bit worried I was going to be intimidated.
02:28 But the great thing about Tony is that he's so warm and genuine and brilliant
02:32 and excited and he's done so much work on his Freud that, and luckily,
02:36 I knew all the script before I knew the whole thing off by heart.
02:40 Because I didn't know how we were going to shoot it.
02:42 But it turns out we were going to shoot it in narrative order,
02:44 which was wonderful.
02:46 And it was, you know, from day one, there was no intimidation factor.
02:52 Thank God, because, I mean, who wants to work under those?
02:54 I know.
02:56 But it was, for me, just an acting masterclass that I got to see up close.
03:02 I think you did a great job of, you know, discussing things with him.
03:09 It came across very well that C.S. Lewis, actually,
03:12 you were very persuasive in your role.
03:15 So, well done.
03:17 Thank you very much.
03:19 Yes.
03:20 And, Matt, can I ask you, what compelled you as a director,
03:25 and then you co-wrote the screenplay, didn't you?
03:30 What compelled you to do this?
03:32 I think that, well, it was sort of thrust upon me,
03:36 the script by somebody who said, "Here you go, take a look at this."
03:40 And it was in an early, early form of it.
03:42 And I just was immediately -- there was the themes.
03:46 The themes of it got their hooks into me.
03:49 And then I didn't think it was ever actually going to get made,
03:53 because who's going to make a movie about Freud and C.S. Lewis
03:57 and this sort of obscure play?
04:00 But it was all right.
04:02 I just fell in love with the content of it so much
04:06 that I just kept coming back to it and kept working on it.
04:09 And slowly but surely, like when that happens,
04:11 then eventually it builds momentum.
04:13 And then you get passionate enough about it that you're like,
04:16 "Oh, wow, I am going to make this."
04:18 And then it just sort of wills itself.
04:20 So, yeah, it was those -- the bigger themes that I think really did it.
04:25 This question of God versus science, I mean, I think,
04:29 as I said a few times, but it's the question of our time, really,
04:34 in some respects.
04:36 And I think they don't have to be enemies,
04:38 and that there's some safe ground on both sides,
04:42 and people need to listen.
04:44 And I hoped from making this film that maybe some conversation could come.
04:50 Yes, because, I mean, obviously our culture seems more and more polarized now.
04:55 People don't like to have the difficult discussions.
04:58 And here you've got two men, like two intellects,
05:02 and they're having conversations with a lot of respect.
05:05 Yeah.
05:06 And a lot of fervor.
05:07 But was it difficult to sort of convince the studio to let you do this sort of film?
05:12 It was extremely difficult, especially because they didn't want to do this
05:17 kind of film.
05:18 So it was an independent film.
05:21 Although Sony Classics, I have to say, they came on very early,
05:26 and they were excited about it, making this film.
05:30 So that was great.
05:32 But it really was an independent film.
05:34 And it's hard.
05:35 These kinds of films are just really hard to make.
05:37 I mean, we created a foundation, actually,
05:40 after my last film, Maninou Infinity, called the Infinity Arts Foundation,
05:43 which helped support these kinds of films.
05:47 And the Sloan Foundation, who I spoke with recently,
05:49 they also support this.
05:51 So it's really a tricky subject.
05:54 But I think it's important that these kinds of films get made.
05:56 And when they do get made, get hopefully made well.
05:59 And to have people like Matthew and Tony be willing to take a chance to put
06:03 themselves in this is -- I mean, it's amazing.
06:06 It's your greatest dream for this kind of film,
06:09 because maybe then it can reach an audience.
06:11 I mean, honestly, it serves as outreach, in a sense, to like --
06:14 I mean, it serves as outreach for people to think.
06:20 You know?
06:22 And debate and have conversation.
06:25 And that's what I'm hoping people take from this.
06:28 For example, this is a question for both of you.
06:32 If this had been presented to a real-life debating society,
06:36 who do you think would have won?
06:39 Lewis or Freud?
06:41 I mean, I suspect it would have been a tie, isn't it?
06:50 That's a very convenient answer.
06:53 I mean, let's face it, Christianity is dying out.
06:59 Slowly but surely.
07:01 The numbers compared to that would have been like 1939.
07:06 So the cynical answer is to say, well, probably Freud.
07:13 But I think as Matthew has already said, Freud's theories would have changed
07:17 by another 80 years now.
07:20 So we would be thinking differently.
07:23 He would be thinking differently.
07:25 He might even be converted.
07:27 Well, actually, there's a question for you, too, Matthew.
07:31 Because Lewis had such strong convictions.
07:34 By playing the part of him, did it make you examine
07:37 and explore your own views of religion?
07:41 Well, I've always been rather admiring of people who have faith.
07:47 Over various different religions.
07:51 I think there's a wonder and a beauty to -- and a strength in those kind of beliefs.
07:58 Mine, I try not to talk about any of that stuff on my own behalf.
08:04 I can understand that.
08:06 It hasn't really changed.
08:08 But then I think that's one of the things about this.
08:12 My father never believed.
08:14 And then when he was on his deathbed, suddenly he had the vicar coming around.
08:18 You never know when faith might step into your life.
08:21 And religion might step into your life.
08:23 It's not something that's a strong part of my life at the moment.
08:26 But you know what? I'm not going to ruin it up.
08:29 Well, you've got plenty of quotes up your sleeve.
08:33 Yes, I did. Some good ones.
08:37 Very quickly, Matt, did you have a favourite moment from the film?
08:41 Yeah, I think so.
08:43 I like it the -- well, I have a few.
08:46 But the ending, I think when they try to say goodbye to each other is my favourite moment.
08:51 Because it's this recognition that it's over for Freud.
08:55 But they built this friendship and respect.
08:58 And they totally don't disagree with each other.
09:01 They kind of found a friendship and a love that transcends their disagreements.
09:08 That I feel palpably when I watch that.
09:10 And that really makes me happy.
09:13 That's great.
09:15 Well, gentlemen, thank you so very much indeed.
09:17 A wonderful film. And best of luck.
09:19 Merry Christmas.
09:21 You too. Merry Christmas.
09:23 Bye.
09:25 (Applause)
09:27 [BLANK_AUDIO]