Today IGIHE talks with Tuma Basa, Director of Urban Music at Youtube. Having worked at revolve, spotify MTV, Rap Caviar and more, the local and yet international phenomenon opens up on his career and the future of the music industry.
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#IGIHE #Rwanda
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NewsTranscript
00:00 Yeah, look, this is my grandfather's, Pastor Birukira and Pastor Vasanthenzu, okay?
00:13 While music is a wide spectrum that everyone is familiar with, music programming comes
00:18 off like a hidden chapter only teachers know about.
00:21 At over a million views on YouTube alone.
00:24 Just imagine the other websites, the Worldstars, the OnSmashes, if you aggregate all of that,
00:28 you'd be shocked.
00:29 Unfortunately for us, one of those teachers is the celebrated Tuma Basa.
00:35 Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on a second, hold on a second.
00:37 Okay, yeah, I'm here.
00:38 Hey, check.
00:42 Oh, right, the flag.
00:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's over here, hold on.
00:47 Having worked at Revolve, Spotify, MTV, Rap Kavya and now the director of album music
00:55 at YouTube, today, EJ opens a conversation with the international and yet local phenomenon
01:02 on his past and present experience, his family and the future of the music industry.
01:07 Is there any scoop, any new features that we could know in advance?
01:13 No, no, no, no.
01:15 My name is Tuma Eni Basanienzi.
01:24 Tuma Eni means hope in Swahili.
01:27 I was named after, my dad went to high school in Tanzania.
01:31 So I was named after one of my dad's Tanzanian high school buddies.
01:36 And Basanienzi is my surname.
01:43 It's my grandfather's name.
01:45 He recently passed away.
01:47 I was born in Rwubumbashi, Zaire.
01:52 When I was five years old, we moved to America.
01:55 And then when I was 13, we moved back to Zimbabwe.
02:00 We moved to Zimbabwe.
02:02 And then we lived in Zimbabwe about six or seven years.
02:05 And from Zimbabwe, we came back to the U.S.
02:09 And then I went to University of Iowa, worked BET, I worked at MTV, I worked at Revolve.
02:18 I worked Spotify and now I work at YouTube.
02:21 What were you studying?
02:25 I studied economics.
02:27 I studied economics.
02:29 I went to BYU for a year and then I transferred to University of Iowa.
02:33 My father got his PhD from University of Iowa.
02:38 Wow, yeah.
02:40 So I lived in Iowa when I was a kid.
02:42 And then I came back and I went to the same school my father went to.
02:47 So when did your journey of working for these big companies start?
02:53 Not all of them were big companies when I worked for them.
02:58 I worked for BET before BET was sold to Viacom.
03:04 And I think it expanded more after that sale.
03:07 Revolt was a startup.
03:09 Revolt, that's Pop Daddy's TV station.
03:14 It was just beginning.
03:17 I was one of the first employees.
03:19 So that wasn't a big company at that time.
03:21 MTV was pretty established.
03:23 Spotify has grown more.
03:26 And then YouTube is relatively -- in comparison to the other companies,
03:31 YouTube is -- because YouTube is worldwide.
03:34 YouTube reaches so many people and it's a part of our lives.
03:39 We learn on YouTube.
03:41 We listen to music on YouTube.
03:45 We watch old TV shows.
03:49 I don't know.
03:50 We do so many things on YouTube.
03:52 Like public health stuff.
03:56 Your career or your title right now is music production, right?
04:00 Programming, sorry.
04:02 So my trade is music programming,
04:09 but I do more than music -- I don't do music programming right now.
04:12 So basically right now is anything that has to do with music,
04:17 specifically black music, whether it's -- whether it be the relationship
04:23 with the music community, whether it be --
04:26 general strategy for the music program, whether it be --
04:35 I'm just in different parts of music.
04:40 You know what I'm saying?
04:41 I go in between.
04:43 I go in between.
04:45 Yeah.
04:46 So really -- okay.
04:48 So you moved to work at YouTube in 2018?
04:52 Yeah.
04:54 So how did that opportunity come?
04:57 Leo Cohen.
04:59 Leo Cohen.
05:00 You know Leo Cohen?
05:02 Yeah.
05:04 So Leo Cohen in the hip-hop world, he's beyond legendary.
05:08 He was the CEO of Def Jam during its heyday.
05:13 He was CEO of like Warner.
05:17 He founded a very successful label called 300 that has Young Thug
05:25 and Megan Thee Stallion.
05:27 He had Fetty Wap is on there.
05:30 So he's had a lot of successes, and I've had a lot of respect for him
05:35 for many years.
05:36 So he brought me there.
05:37 So how is the environment at YouTube?
05:41 The environment at YouTube is very forward-thinking, right?
05:49 So a lot of conversations are very looking into the future,
05:56 is figuring out how innovations or how we can get better
06:04 and how we can adapt to new needs every day, you know?
06:09 And also you have to remember something.
06:11 I'm in the music department, right?
06:13 And in the music department, there's always something happening.
06:17 There's always someone, a new artist emerging.
06:21 There's always new songs.
06:22 It stays exciting.
06:24 There's always some new technology.
06:26 There's always news events that affect artists.
06:30 There's so much.
06:32 So it's actually pretty exciting.
06:34 All right.
06:35 So we would want to ask you, do you follow the random music industry?
06:41 I follow it to just an extent, you know, to an extent.
06:49 It's what I get shared.
06:51 I'm in WhatsApp groups.
06:53 Yeah.
06:54 And so music gets shared on WhatsApp groups,
06:57 and then I have friends there like Bebina or DJs,
07:04 or DJ Maqueda, or there's so many people that I follow.
07:09 Eric Cabrera, you know, all these guys, I follow them on social media,
07:14 so I see their posts and everything, you know?
07:17 And I have a lot of cousins, all my cousins also, you know?
07:22 All right. Yeah. All right.
07:24 So we were trying to, like, because you did an interview,
07:28 you talked about culture duality,
07:32 like how you find Nigerian music now really starting to pop into the States
07:38 and having really this impact.
07:40 Do you really think, how does it really actually, you know,
07:44 go forward to coming from one country to another?
07:47 How do you think music can really transcend that kind of barrier?
07:54 How does music transcend cultural barriers?
07:57 I would say, like, how would Nigerians find a way to bring the music
08:03 into the States and actually really bring an impact?
08:07 How does it happen?
08:10 Utilizing the diaspora is, they have a large diaspora.
08:15 You know, it's so interesting, we're talking about diasporas.
08:19 Right now we know the power of the diaspora is when you keep a connection,
08:23 when you keep a connection, you know what I mean?
08:25 So much more can be done, right?
08:28 So much more in terms of joining forces, in terms of resources,
08:32 in terms of knowledge exchange.
08:34 So what happens is that sense of oneness.
08:41 You know what I'm saying?
08:43 That level of unity, that level of progress happens.
08:49 Yeah.
08:50 Do you miss Rwanda? Do you miss something here?
08:53 Of course, oh, my gosh.
08:55 Oh, yeah, of course I miss Rwanda.
08:58 I miss -- because you have to remember, before COVID,
09:01 I used to come to Rwanda like twice a year, maybe once or twice a year.
09:04 You know what I mean?
09:06 So now COVID and travel restrictions, I can't miss it.
09:13 I mean, I can't visit.
09:15 And I say, you know, the culture, the people, the -- yeah, I miss it.
09:21 Yeah, of course I miss it, yeah.
09:23 Even going to Diseni and Lake Kivu and seeing it.
09:28 Definitely, yeah.
09:30 Driving from Musanze and seeing the people walking with the sticks,
09:35 the long sticks and the hats and the dress codes.
09:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
09:42 That's really iconic.
09:43 Yeah, yeah.
09:44 Yeah, it's very iconic.
09:45 That's very iconic.
09:47 So we got married.
09:50 That's where I'm from.
09:51 Yeah, that's where you're from, from Diseni.
09:53 Well, no, not Diseni, just that north part, like near Musanze,
09:57 you know what I mean?
09:58 Yeah.
09:59 Yeah, you know.
10:01 Right.
10:03 Do you ever wonder that maybe your kid might, you know,
10:07 need to have this Rwandan environment in him before he grows up?
10:12 Of course, of course.
10:14 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:16 He's going to love Rwanda and they're going to love him.
10:19 I was wondering what's your goal in the near future, in the future,
10:24 what's your end game?
10:27 You know what, the end game is for the next generation of African artists,
10:33 African American artists, and I even throw Jamaican artists in there,
10:38 just British, Black British, is that the end game is that the next
10:43 generation has it way better than this generation,
10:46 so that it always continues to be upward projection.
10:49 Right now, and it's not just music, this is culture,
10:53 this is the monetization and the economics of culture,
10:59 you know what I mean, is that we know how great and how beautiful the art
11:06 or the work we do is, is that we have a sense of kind of ownership
11:14 and get rewarded, not just fairly, but well, you know what I mean, for this.
11:22 Yeah, yeah.
11:24 I would really like to ask, what was the challenges?
11:30 You start, you finish college in economics,
11:34 and then you jumped into this type of career that really connects
11:41 with people a lot, right?
11:43 So what were the challenges going through that kind of path?
11:48 The biggest challenge, that's a tough, that's a really good question too,
11:55 by the way.
11:57 The biggest challenge I've had so far has to be patience, you know,
12:05 you know, things take time, things take time.
12:10 I was in the music video world for a long time, even a music video,
12:14 even a song would be hot, right?
12:16 Let's say it's on the radio, everyone loves it,
12:19 but it still took a lot of time to pre-production and the treatment,
12:27 again, the treatment is the shoots, then the edits, the post-production,
12:33 editing into one thing, and then there was the standards,
12:39 and then there was closed captioning.
12:41 There were so many processes.
12:42 This is when I was in the music video world.
12:44 There were so many processes, and a lot of people like to say
12:48 trust the process, you know, is you just continue, you just go forward,
12:53 you just put all your heart in every step so that the final product
12:58 can be really good.
13:00 So patience and trust in the process has probably been my biggest challenge
13:05 where you don't know where this is going and you don't know if you're going
13:09 to succeed, and then also, yeah.
13:13 - Upon starting your career, you started working with PDD,
13:19 or was it another company?
13:21 - No, that was later.
13:22 I worked with Puff later on.
13:24 So I started as doing internships.
13:29 So in the U.S., I don't know around if they do unpaid internships,
13:33 but in the U.S. - Yeah, we have that.
13:35 - You do? Okay, okay, okay, okay.
13:37 Well, I did three unpaid internships, right?
13:40 - Wow.
13:41 - Because that's how bad I wanted it.
13:44 I'm not going to--there's only reason.
13:46 And also, they were worth it because--well, two of them I got relationships.
13:51 I interned at an entertainment law firm.
13:54 You know what I mean?
13:55 My cousin Mukesha was living in New York at the time,
14:00 and she let me stay at her place.
14:02 Because, you know, if you're not getting paid, like, how are you going to--you know?
14:05 So Mukesha, she let me stay at her place in New York.
14:12 I did another internship, BET.
14:14 I got very valuable relationships from that time.
14:19 When I say valuable, it is I learned so much.
14:25 I grew with the people that, you know, like I interned for or BET I interned with.
14:34 They became my good, trusted friends, you know?
14:37 And we support each other.
14:41 We give each other strength.
14:43 We're rooting for each other.
14:46 We're keeping ourselves updated, keeping ourselves strong.
14:52 So, for me, the internship thing was more about getting my foot in the door, right,
15:01 getting my foot in the door.
15:02 And sometimes you have to sacrifice.
15:05 Like, you don't only think about the money, right?
15:08 Sometimes you have to think about the long term, and that's in good relationships,
15:16 knowing people who know how you work, right?
15:20 Knowing people who see you grow because they feel invested when they've seen you
15:26 when you were still learning, like when you're still maybe a little bit nervous,
15:32 maybe a little bit--and then all of a sudden now you have confidence
15:36 and you're doing really well.
15:38 You know why?
15:39 Because of practice.
15:40 So that's how I look at internships.
15:42 I look at it as practice.
15:44 So it's not the game.
15:46 It's the practice.
15:48 And that makes you better for the game, you know?
15:51 You know, sometimes we get so caught up in money, money, money, money.
15:55 If you're an artist and you love your craft, that will come.
16:03 That will come.
16:04 You're just doing it, whether you're getting an instant reward for it or not.
16:11 You get better and then--can I say something also about Rhonda?
16:17 I came to Rhonda, I think it was 2006.
16:20 It was a FESPAD, right?
16:22 And they had a conference at the--at that time it was called Intercontinental Hotel.
16:28 It wasn't Serena Hotel, right?
16:30 Yeah.
16:31 And they had a conference there.
16:33 And at that time, right, that time I met with the artists in Rhonda,
16:38 and I remember telling them about MySpace and all these things.
16:43 You know what I mean?
16:44 The Hi5 was popular, I think, at the time, et cetera.
16:47 Even YouTube was happening in America.
16:52 And at that time--you know what those artists told me at that time?
16:57 They were like, "You're talking about these things on the internet where at the time
17:02 there were electricity problems," right?
17:04 Yeah, yeah.
17:05 Those electricity problems disappeared within a few years, right?
17:09 This is 2006.
17:11 Within a few years.
17:13 The connectivity, Rhonda's connectivity has increased so much, right?
17:18 Yeah, really fast.
17:19 Yeah, really fast.
17:21 So even the way that we're communicating right now, et cetera,
17:25 we're not--it's not expensive, right?
17:29 It's not.
17:30 As technology gets better, as data becomes less expensive, right,
17:38 what we're seeing is the people who are prepared,
17:41 the people who are working on their craft--right?
17:44 I'm talking about artists.
17:46 I'm talking about creatives.
17:47 I'm specifically talking to creatives that are working on their craft.
17:51 But when we get to that point of improvement for the whole world,
17:56 by the way, right, the whole world, and when the world becomes smaller,
18:00 the opportunities will become even more.
18:02 In terms of exporting your services, I'm not talking about domestically.
18:07 Domestically, that can happen all you want.
18:09 You see what I'm saying?
18:10 We can buy baskets and nice--you know what I mean?
18:13 But the export potential.
18:17 Yeah, for sure.
18:18 So basically, would you say that music--
18:23 outside the music industry now that is mostly online because of the pandemic,
18:28 would you say that it's really actually helping, you know,
18:33 in terms of our recognition and revenue,
18:36 would you say that it's bringing something new or is it kind of really slower?
18:42 Yeah, because if you're online, you can reach more people.
18:49 You know what I mean?
18:50 You can reach more people.
18:52 Theoretically, I'm not saying more people are being reached right now.
18:57 More people faster.
19:03 You can reach more people faster.
19:09 And also, it removes barriers to entry, right?
19:13 So here, I'll give you an example.
19:15 So if I'm Diamond Platinum's or let's say Medi, right, or The Bend.
19:22 Let's just run these examples, right?
19:25 If I'm Medi or The Bend or is--the playing field is level.
19:35 You know what I mean?
19:36 You see what I'm saying?
19:37 Is my Wi-Fi or, you know, is just as--it reaches just as much as this.
19:47 Yeah, you get it.
19:48 You get it.
19:49 You get it.
19:50 So back to my question.
19:55 I was asking if you really were passionate about, you know, going into
20:00 this music industry or did it just happen instantly after college?
20:05 No, you know what?
20:07 My passion comes from my father.
20:10 My father was very passionate about music and he used to play a lot of--you
20:16 know, like a lot of Lingala records, you know?
20:20 You know these Lingala records, these--Franco and Rochelle Rowe,
20:25 you know those and everything?
20:27 So--and a lot of Bob Marley and Commodores and Simon and Garfunkel
20:34 and he put Eagles.
20:37 So my passion comes from my dad.
20:40 So I think that that was all.
20:42 I think that was all.
20:44 Is there anything you would give as a message to the artists that are
20:49 struggling or that the creative that are actually like really putting in
20:53 work to get them where they want to be?
20:55 Yeah, here is collaborate.
20:58 Work with each other because when you collaborate, you get better.
21:03 There's a little bit of competition, right, because you want to be just as
21:06 good as the person you're collaborating with, right?
21:09 You create a movement.
21:11 The movement is rather small, right?
21:14 So the way that small places punch above their weight, meaning, you know,
21:22 like in boxing if I'm a small guy, you know?
21:25 Yeah, yeah.
21:27 I might have to go faster or I might have to be swifter.
21:31 I might have to--et cetera.
21:33 I might have to--is when you know that, right, the population is small,
21:39 you have to go--that means the unity has to be tighter.
21:46 You see what I'm saying?
21:48 The communication has to be even more frequent.
21:51 It is--you create your own buzz, right?
21:57 You make your stuff popular, and then you--when people--and you collaborate
22:04 with other people in other countries, and when they come, they feel like
22:08 they're tapping into a movement, right, that is bigger than just that one
22:13 artist or that one producer or that one--and I watched Teddy Riley go to Rwanda.
22:18 I really, really loved seeing him in Rwanda.
22:22 That was amazing, you know?
22:24 That was incredible.
22:26 You know why?
22:27 Because Teddy Riley--the thing is, Teddy Riley is--he founded, like,
22:32 entire genres, like, you know what I mean?
22:34 He created new sounds, and that was inspiring to even watch him on YouTube.
22:40 I watched him on YouTube talking to--I was so inspired to see the level
22:46 of interest.
22:47 That was great.
22:48 And also Visit Rwanda.
22:49 Visit Rwanda is doing such a great job.
22:51 Like, I love that campaign, you know?
22:55 Yeah, it's really, like, bringing up this image.
22:59 Yeah.
23:00 Oh, this is the best.
23:04 Whenever I see the Arsenal--I just want to support more, like, you know?
23:11 Yeah.
23:12 Do you watch football?
23:15 No, I don't.
23:16 Uh-uh.
23:17 [laughter]
23:19 How would you watch Arsenal?
23:21 But when I see it, I'm like, "Oh, yeah."
23:23 Like, you know?
23:25 I watch the big games, and then my dad watches it.
23:28 When I see Visit Rwanda, I just feel, you know, like, okay,
23:33 this is aggressive marketing, and I love that.
23:35 You know what I mean?
23:36 It's, like, world-class.
23:37 That's what I'm talking about.
23:39 Even when I go to a coffee shop and I see Rwanda Coffee, like,
23:42 that makes me feel proud, proud.
23:44 You know why?
23:45 Because I know that it requires more effort.
23:52 You know what I mean?
23:53 It requires vision and risk-taking, you know what I mean?
23:59 Like, to compete on a world stage on that level.
24:02 And I know that it's just the beginning, too.
24:05 I know that there's more categories.
24:07 Because we go to Rwanda, Rwandese pride is so high, you know?
24:14 And, yeah.
24:16 [music]
24:18 you