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Transcript
00:00:00 Hi, everybody. I'm Diane Brady. I'm here with Brad Jacobs. I should say THE Brad Jacobs,
00:00:08 Executive Chairman of XBO, Chairman of RxO, GxO. I think that you've created now seven
00:00:16 companies. Is that right, Brad?
00:00:17 If you include the two spins, yes.
00:00:19 The two spins. And you've just written how to make a few billion dollars. And I was reading
00:00:23 you've, I think, made $55 billion for shareholders. So you make it sound so easy. Let me start
00:00:29 with, who did you write this book for?
00:00:32 I wrote this book for people who want to accomplish big things in life.
00:00:36 Yeah.
00:00:37 Whether that's in business or whether that's in personal life. And how to rearrange your
00:00:40 brain, which is the name of the first chapter, to get yourself in the right mindset, to think
00:00:45 big and to be focused. And for CEOs in particular who want to learn what I've learned over the
00:00:53 last 44 years.
00:00:55 When somebody makes $55 billion for shareholders, there's a certain feeling that it's an innate
00:01:00 gift versus a learned gift. What do you think can be learned and what do you think is innate?
00:01:08 Especially because part of what you write about is creating these killer teams as well.
00:01:12 Well, some of it is innate. Some people are born leaders, some people are not born leaders.
00:01:19 But if you put people in the right circumstances and you train them and give them exposure
00:01:25 to other people and show them how it's done, people can grow a lot.
00:01:28 So for example, I have broken up XPO into three companies. RXO, which is the tech forward
00:01:36 freight brokerage platform. GXO, which is the largest pure play warehouse company in
00:01:42 the world, supply chain company. And XPO, which is an LTL company, less than truckload
00:01:47 carrier. And each one of those has a CEO who was on my team over the years.
00:01:54 And I think if you asked any of them seven or eight years ago, do you think you're going
00:01:57 to be CEO of a public company? They'd say, oh, nah, I'm not going to be CEO of a public
00:02:00 company. But they all are. And the reason they are is they were part of a group that
00:02:07 shared information with each other, shared best practices, taught each other, saw how
00:02:13 it was done, and grew and matured.
00:02:15 So I think a lot of it is being in an environment and learning. Some of it is learning.
00:02:19 I feel like I'm going to skate all over the place here. But I immediately think of the
00:02:24 section where you talk about A, B, and C players, which is different than how people might think
00:02:29 about it. How do you think about it? How do you identify those A, B, and C?
00:02:33 Well, as I write in the book, I do look at people on the team as A, B, or C players.
00:02:39 And the way I look at it is--
00:02:40 Do they know who they are?
00:02:42 Yes, because if they're C players, they're not there forever. If they're B players, trying
00:02:47 to turn them into A players. I look at it as I imagine in my mind, Diane, the person
00:02:51 comes into my office and says, Brad, this is not a negotiation. It's just information
00:02:57 to let you know I quit. I've already got another job. I bought another house. It's a done deal.
00:03:02 Don't give me a counteroffer. I'm leaving.
00:03:05 And then I say, well, how would I feel if I did that? If I imagine myself feeling, yes,
00:03:12 I was going to fire that person anyways, but I didn't have the guts to do it, and I was
00:03:16 postponing it, and fantastic. Won't have to pay severance. This is C player.
00:03:21 If my reaction to them quitting is, well, I would have preferred them not to quit, but
00:03:27 it's not the end of the world. We'll hire a headhunter. We'll do a search. And we'll
00:03:31 find someone that's good, maybe better. That's a B.
00:03:34 If my reaction to them coming in and saying I quit is, oh my god, we are so screwed. We
00:03:43 are never going to get a person as fantastic as Diane. And I can't even hear what you're
00:03:49 telling me because I'm just in a panic mode. I'm in complete confusion because I'm lost.
00:03:54 I'm never going to get someone as good as you. That's an A player.
00:03:57 And what's important is to think about that. All the relationships you have in the company,
00:04:02 who are your A players? And make darn sure you do not lose an A player.
00:04:08 Right. You don't strike me as somebody who has things done to you. Like, you would never
00:04:12 have somebody come in. You would get rid of that person probably before they come in and
00:04:16 quit that job.
00:04:17 Well, I'm a human.
00:04:19 You're a human.
00:04:21 Nobody likes firing people. If they do that, they're not necessarily a nice person.
00:04:25 And that's very true. Let me go back. I did mention at the start that you have started
00:04:30 seven companies. Are you done yet?
00:04:32 No.
00:04:33 No? Okay. There's an eighth company that you're looking at.
00:04:36 I'm very actively right now looking at other industries to do the same old things I've
00:04:42 done for 44 years.
00:04:43 Well, so let's talk about those same... Because I go back, one of the things that intrigues
00:04:47 me always is the background that people have. And you studied music and math.
00:04:53 What intrigued you about that?
00:04:54 Well, music and math both played a big role in developing my approach to life. So the
00:05:00 math is obvious. Numbers, analytical thinking, rational, objective. The music may not be
00:05:06 so intuitive to people, but it's been a big influence in my life. And I write about in
00:05:10 the book how my most important professor in school was a musician called Bill Dixon. Rest
00:05:16 in peace. He was a very famous jazz musician. He didn't like the word jazz. He called it
00:05:21 black music, but we would call it jazz. And Bill taught me a lot of stuff. He taught me
00:05:26 a lot of stuff about music. He taught me a lot of stuff about life. About music, what
00:05:31 he taught me was you have to improvise, that nothing is a wrong note. If someone goes on
00:05:37 a...
00:05:38 Ergo jazz.
00:05:39 If someone goes on a wrong note, that's not a wrong note. That's the new note. And we
00:05:43 got to move with that. We have to make that into a positive thing, not a negative. And
00:05:49 the other thing he taught me was you're not playing by yourself. You're playing in a group,
00:05:53 in a team with other people. And you need to be paying attention to all those people.
00:05:58 As much as you're paying attention to yourself, you need to be completely inward and at the
00:06:03 same time paying attention to how you're relating to your other team members, your group members.
00:06:08 It's the same thing in business. In business, you have to pay attention to what you're in
00:06:11 charge of, what you're doing. But you can't be just lost inside yourself. You have to
00:06:16 be paying attention to how you're relating to other people and how they're doing and
00:06:20 what they're doing. And all that interactivity is really important. And in life, what Bill
00:06:25 told me, and I spent quite a few pages talking about this in the book, is there came a point
00:06:29 in time about, I don't know, 10 or so years after I'd left Bennington College, right,
00:06:34 where I'd met Bill, where I had done well in business and I had this big fancy apartment
00:06:40 in New York and he wanted to crash because he had a gig in New York. So I invited him
00:06:44 to stay at my apartment.
00:06:45 That's a professor who really likes you.
00:06:48 And I loved him. And he came and I'm showing him, looking out the view of the 30th floor
00:06:54 of Olympic Tower and I thought he was going to be really impressed. He looked at me and
00:06:58 he said, "You know, you're really wasting your life. You could have been a really good
00:07:05 musician. You could have really contributed something to the world of music and here you
00:07:10 are chasing money. Like, for what?" So it dawned on me that chasing money, while fun
00:07:17 and interesting and has advantages, is not the only thing in life. There's a lot of other
00:07:21 parts of life. So I learned a lot about music.
00:07:23 What do you chase then? Because obviously you've made a lot of money, so that part,
00:07:27 you know, if you were chasing money, that is success. How do you define success?
00:07:33 That's for each person.
00:07:34 But I'm asking you personally.
00:07:35 Oh, for myself. For me, success is personal and it's professional. And professional, I
00:07:41 measure it on creating great companies where lots of people succeed and many, many people
00:07:46 make lots of money and especially the shareholders. If you look at each one of my companies, while
00:07:51 they're in different industries, something's very similar about all of them.
00:07:55 Billion dollar plus.
00:07:56 What's similar about all of them is the creation of dramatic shareholder value. That one share
00:08:03 of the company at day one was worth a lot more by year five and year ten and sometimes
00:08:10 outrageously so. So if you look at XPO, the people who invested with me at the very, very
00:08:17 beginning made 32 times their money when they sold with me last year, majority of our shares.
00:08:22 If you look at United Rentals, people got in at $3.50 a share when I started it and
00:08:28 today that stock is about $435 a share, so over 100 times. So to me, success in business
00:08:35 is many, many things, but it must include, and it's different for different people, but
00:08:40 it must include creating shareholder value. Other than that, you're kidding yourself.
00:08:46 On a personal level, for me success is creating happiness, creating happiness for the people
00:08:52 I love and the people I care for and the people I lead. So whether they're in my company,
00:08:57 whether they're in my family, whether they're in my friends, the people I care about in
00:09:01 life. And as I grow older, who I care about expands.
00:09:05 Oh really, that's interesting. I often think that sometimes it can shrink, but you're right,
00:09:09 it can expand that desire to give back, you mean, really.
00:09:13 Yeah, and particularly in my life where I'm running global businesses and doing business
00:09:18 in dozens of countries and traveling around a lot, I just meet a lot of people. You see
00:09:23 a lot of different cultures, a lot of folks.
00:09:24 Well, Brad, I want to ask, timing is everything. There's a lot of confident people, a lot of
00:09:29 people who do study the art of management. You've had, especially when you're starting
00:09:37 companies, there's a serendipity factor to knowing the environment and seeing the opportunity.
00:09:44 What would you say about the timing when you think about your strengths in that area? Knowing
00:09:49 when to shift focus, start something new, because that to me would be one of the hardest
00:09:56 things to do as a leader.
00:09:58 It is, but starting a business is like starting a family when you're a young couple. Is there
00:10:03 ever a good time to...
00:10:05 Most people don't start seven.
00:10:06 Well, but most people when you're starting, when you're having kids, there really is no
00:10:10 perfect time to have kids. You have a career, you have commitments, whatever, but you just
00:10:17 do it and you figure it out. That's been the approach I've had for starting businesses.
00:10:21 I don't try to time the cycle just perfectly so I'm starting it at the very lowest part
00:10:27 of the cycle of the economy bottomed out and the stock market bottomed out, because pretty
00:10:32 much in any part of the cycle of starting a business, if you do it well and if you do
00:10:36 it with great people and you have a good strategy, you execute with precision, you'll do well.
00:10:43 But then there's also doing the right thing for too long, right? So you have to know when
00:10:46 to pivot and shift.
00:10:48 I pivot and shift when I get bored. It's intuitive.
00:10:51 So you have a gut feel. Blink. Well, I want to get to that. The last part of the book
00:10:57 where you talk about killing your competitors.
00:11:00 No, no, no. You're right. How to create a culture where you're killing the competition
00:11:08 instead of killing each other.
00:11:09 Okay. No competitors will die. No competitors die. Figuratively. When you've seen, where
00:11:17 did most people fail? I know that's actually probably perhaps too harsh a word, but when
00:11:24 the competition makes mistakes, are there classic mistakes you've seen that you think
00:11:31 you can spot the vulnerabilities?
00:11:32 I mean, you talk about excellence in this book. It's a book about, but yet your competition
00:11:38 is aspiring to the same thing. So where do you find most people fall short when you're
00:11:42 head to head with them?
00:11:43 I think there's a bunch of categories of where any company falls short. The first of which
00:11:48 is strategy. You just have the wrong plan. You have the, you're making it bad.
00:11:51 If they have a plan at all sometimes.
00:11:53 Or if, yeah. And they're making a gamble, a bet, a speculation based on a premise that
00:11:59 turns out to be wrong. So getting the fundamental trend is very critical to success. That solves
00:12:06 a lot of problems even if you make a lot of errors. If you're on the right side of the
00:12:11 trend, that's going to bail you out. But you can't be just sizing up a trend. You also
00:12:16 have to create a company that's got fantastic people. As many A players as possible.
00:12:23 And I define fantastic in the book as people who are super smart, hungry, and can work
00:12:31 together as a team, and honest. If they have those four traits, then I want that person.
00:12:37 I want that person on the team. And I don't want anybody who's got just one or two or
00:12:41 three of those traits. I want people to have all four of those traits. So if you can get
00:12:46 together a team of people who are, have all those characteristics, and then you can create
00:12:52 a culture where people feel safe to present different views, opposing views, and also
00:13:00 get in the habit of not having rigid thinking. Being able to be open-minded to change your
00:13:07 views, change your opinions. If facts change or if your thinking evolves, you can accomplish
00:13:14 great, great stuff.
00:13:15 Let's talk about some of the habits you have. We can talk about the strength. But one of
00:13:19 the habits, you have a whole section on meetings. Tell us a little bit about your philosophy
00:13:25 of meetings.
00:13:26 Well, thank you for pointing that out. There is one whole chapter on how to run an electric
00:13:31 meeting. And in most companies, meetings are a waste of time, in my opinion. Because it's
00:13:38 somebody getting up there with a PowerPoint presentation, giving a speech, people on their
00:13:43 phones, people talking to each other, people not hearing most. It's a waste of time. You
00:13:48 might as well just send that out as a pre-read, which is what we do. If the PowerPoints are
00:13:52 fine, they should be read by people privately, not by someone up on stage reading it to everybody
00:13:57 else.
00:13:58 Then what we do is, we have inclusive meetings in terms of setting the agenda. I don't set
00:14:04 the agenda. I contribute to the agenda. But I empower everyone who's coming to that meeting
00:14:09 to submit two things. What their biggest takeaways were from reading all the pre-reads, and anything
00:14:16 else they want to contribute to the purpose of that meeting, the topic of that meeting.
00:14:20 And secondly, what's a question or two that they think is important enough for everyone
00:14:25 to discuss and use our precious time together. And then we redistribute those. We vote on
00:14:31 those on the app, scale of 1 to 10. And that's the agenda of the meeting. We go over from
00:14:37 starting with the ones that were ranked as high and keep going until the time is up.
00:14:41 This is a powerful way to do a meeting because it's not someone else setting the agenda.
00:14:48 It's everyone in that meeting deciding what's important to do. But you can't stop there.
00:14:53 It also has to be the rules of the meeting. And I don't have a lot of rules, but I got
00:14:58 some rules. One rule is, one person speaks at a time, and only one person speaks at a
00:15:04 time.
00:15:05 It's like passing the conch, minus the little flies, right?
00:15:09 Exactly. And everyone has to give the attention of all their 100 billion brain cells to that
00:15:15 one person. And people have to watch and listen very, very carefully, and not just listen
00:15:21 and watch carefully, but nonjudgmentally. People have to keep an attitude of respectfulness.
00:15:27 And you can't fake that. It has to be genuine. It has to be cultivate an attitude of, "I
00:15:34 really want to hear your opinion, and I want to hear her opinion, and I want to hear his
00:15:37 opinion. And maybe after I hear their opinions, you know what? I may change my opinion."
00:15:43 That is a wonderful meeting. That's one of respectfulness. That's one where you really
00:15:48 are solving problems. You're solving problems and leaving that meeting with work streams
00:15:53 that make big changes in the company and big improvements in the company and help you to
00:15:58 create a few billion dollars.
00:15:59 Well, you talk about being 44 years. How do you manage differently now? Because this is
00:16:05 like this is cumulative knowledge than you did when you were starting out. You gave us
00:16:11 the image of your professor saying, "You could have been a great jazz musician." But when
00:16:16 you think about it, has much changed? Or is there anything when you think about particular
00:16:22 techniques that you have learned that you wish you'd known 40 years ago?
00:16:28 Thousands of things. So yes, I've learned. I learned every day, every year, and I recognized
00:16:34 the things where I'm failing and where I can improve, and that's a good thing. Be aware
00:16:39 of where the defects are. I guess I've changed a few fundamental things in particular, like
00:16:45 compensation. So I used to be a little cheaper on compensation, a little more frugal on compensation.
00:16:50 And then over the years, I decided, "You know what? What really works well is if I err on
00:16:55 the side of overcompensating people and let people make lots and lots of money, only if
00:17:01 it's tied to results. But if they perform and if they deliver results and if they help
00:17:06 contribute to the success of the company, darn it, let them make a lot of money. And
00:17:10 let a lot of people make a lot of money, and that's the main reason people come to work.
00:17:15 If people are honest and you say, "Well, why do you have a job? Yeah, it's because of this
00:17:19 because of this." But the main reason is you want to make money for yourself and the people
00:17:24 you love. That's why people are coming in. They're not coming in to please me or to help
00:17:29 me to accomplish things. They're coming because they have goals that they want achieved, and
00:17:33 a lot of it is financial. So you know what? Let them make a lot of money. So that's a
00:17:38 big learning I had over the years. I learned that from a guy called Dick Colburn. He passed
00:17:42 away years ago. I bought a company from him in California called U.S. Rentals, and it
00:17:48 was a large company, and he was an interesting fellow. He had been married 10 times to nine
00:17:54 different wives, one wife he married twice.
00:17:56 The Liz Taylor of logistics.
00:17:58 Yeah, kind of Liz Taylor logistics. The good one. And like I generally do with people who
00:18:03 are successful, who I had the fortune to meet, I asked him, "So what's your secrets? How
00:18:08 did you build up this enormous company and become a multi-billionaire and everything?"
00:18:13 And he told me it was about a few things, but it was mainly about compensation, and
00:18:17 it was about tying compensation to performance and letting people make a lot of money if
00:18:24 they perform really well. And that made a big dent on me, and I absorbed that from him.
00:18:28 So let's talk about the consumer, the aspirational, the young, whether they're in college,
00:18:35 maybe they're just starting out, but they don't have the luxury to be designing their
00:18:40 own meetings yet. But they're saying, "I want to be like Brad Jacobs." What's the
00:18:46 advice? And it's kind of hard because, to your point, there's only so much you can,
00:18:52 in a way, pass on to somebody. They have to want it, pick the right industry. But
00:18:57 if you were to say, "Here's a couple of things you should think about,"
00:19:01 what would you say from this book and beyond?
00:19:06 I would first say, "Read this book 10 times."
00:19:09 Right.
00:19:09 And then call me and let's go over any questions you have. Secondly, I would say—
00:19:13 That's an offer, right.
00:19:14 Secondly, I would say, because I really have put in that book—
00:19:18 Yeah, it's like you can't underestimate. You've got a lot of different advice and
00:19:24 you intertwine it with your own experience, so it's a very reflective book.
00:19:28 I poured out the most important things I could tell someone of how to create a few billion
00:19:34 dollars. What are the secrets that I've learned and are still learning and developing?
00:19:38 And I put that in the book.
00:19:39 This is teaser content.
00:19:41 So in the book, you'll see the first chapter is how to rearrange your brain.
00:19:47 If I just had to pick one of the many things that I talk about in the book,
00:19:50 chapter one would be that one.
00:19:51 Because how you get your mind in a good place and keep it in a good place,
00:19:58 and when it gets out of a good place, bring it back to base as quickly as possible is key.
00:20:03 You're not going to be very successful in business if your mind is all over the place,
00:20:08 and if your emotions are all over the place.
00:20:10 You need to find out how to get in the zone, whatever that is for you.
00:20:15 You need to figure out how do you get into that calm place that's your center.
00:20:19 And you need to be aware of yourself when you're getting out of that center,
00:20:24 and then how to bring it back into the center.
00:20:27 For me, that's the single most important secret I can share with somebody of
00:20:32 how to become real successful in businesses.
00:20:34 First, get in touch with your mind, get in touch with your heart,
00:20:37 get in touch with your spirit.
00:20:38 And if you can get into that zone at will,
00:20:42 and I give a few techniques and thought experiments that have worked for me,
00:20:45 maybe others will work for other people, that's the most important thing.
00:20:48 It's a psychological thing more than anything else.
00:20:51 So you're a man of music.
00:20:54 If you were to have a walk-up song, I'm just curious, what would it be?
00:20:58 Probably some techno music.
00:21:03 Really?
00:21:03 Lyric, yeah.
00:21:04 Okay, so not jazz.
00:21:05 That's interesting.
00:21:06 My music taste is all over the place, from classical to jazz to everything else.
00:21:11 When you think about education, very tempting to drop out,
00:21:16 especially if you're somebody who is ambitious, you see an opportunity.
00:21:20 What do you think about the role of education now?
00:21:24 That's an area that a lot of people are being encouraged.
00:21:27 A lot of places don't even ask for a college degree anymore.
00:21:31 Have we been too focused on that?
00:21:33 Well, I've certainly been a product of my education.
00:21:37 When I was young, I was fortunate and privileged to go to a bunch of great schools.
00:21:41 Right.
00:21:41 And meet a lot of great teachers.
00:21:43 But I really took it seriously.
00:21:45 I really gave a lot of attention and put everything I could into my studies.
00:21:49 But I got bored and left before I graduated.
00:21:51 That didn't hold me back whatsoever.
00:21:53 So to answer your question, I think education is important.
00:21:56 There's a lot to be learned, how to read, how to write.
00:21:58 But more importantly, develop an attitude of just wanting to learn,
00:22:03 wanting to know, and not thinking you know everything, because you really don't.
00:22:08 And trying to get to new levels of knowledge.
00:22:11 And trying to always be thinking, what's the reason behind this?
00:22:14 What's the cause behind this?
00:22:16 And how is this successful?
00:22:17 And looking at other companies and other people and studying them.
00:22:21 My whole life I've read biographies.
00:22:24 And I love to study other people who have been successful and learn from what's worked for them.
00:22:29 So since you are eyeing now your eighth company,
00:22:31 I'd love to get-- you're not going to tell us, I'm sure.
00:22:34 But what's your view of the landscape?
00:22:37 I think what's on your radar that you would put on ours as final thoughts?
00:22:43 Obviously, buy the book.
00:22:45 But this is a very volatile landscape.
00:22:48 And some people see great opportunity.
00:22:50 Some see great peril.
00:22:51 I'm sure it's both.
00:22:52 Well, there is risk in the world right now.
00:22:54 There's probably more risk than there's been in the past.
00:22:58 Because you have a lot of desperate leaders that have nuclear weapons and other type of weapons.
00:23:04 So it's a dangerous world out there.
00:23:06 But at the same time, you have technology powering something really fantastic,
00:23:11 which is the sharing of information with great speed and in great volume.
00:23:17 And knowledge is what it's about.
00:23:20 So I'm very excited about capitalizing on the trends in technology, particularly automation and AI.
00:23:26 I was just reading this morning about these new developments in fMRIs that
00:23:31 the computer now with AI can basically read your mind.
00:23:36 And if I'm looking at a painting, it can reproduce that painting.
00:23:41 If I'm listening to a song, it can reproduce that song.
00:23:43 It knows what song I'm listening to.
00:23:45 If I'm feeling an emotion, it can do that.
00:23:46 And I'm thinking of all the fantastic ramifications for that in terms of business.
00:23:51 The technology revolution that's going on right now is unprecedented in history.
00:23:57 And in the book, I have a 2 million year history of the development and inventions of technology.
00:24:03 And they're speeding up so fast.
00:24:05 This presents a lot of opportunities to make a lot of money.
00:24:07 How to make your next few billion dollars.
00:24:10 So the book is How to Make a Few Billion Dollars.
00:24:12 We are with a man who's made more than 55 billion for your shareholders loan.
00:24:17 Brad, thanks very much for joining us.
00:24:19 It's been a pleasure.
00:24:19 Thank you.
00:24:20 I'm Rose Marie Miller, and I have the pleasure of speaking with BlackChina today.
00:24:26 Thank you so much for joining me.
00:24:27 Thank you for having me.
00:24:29 So before we really jump in, what do you want to be referenced as?
00:24:34 BlackChina or are you Angela White?
00:24:37 Angela White.
00:24:38 You are Angela White.
00:24:39 Yes, yes, ma'am.
00:24:40 So why are you choosing that name?
00:24:42 Well, it was given to me by birth.
00:24:45 But mostly just for me, it's like getting back to myself.
00:24:49 Because, you know, being in the entertainment, like, feel everybody always calls me like,
00:24:54 hey, BlackChina, China, China.
00:24:56 Nobody never really calls me Angela.
00:24:58 So sometimes I would kind of like forget like who I am,
00:25:01 because it's always like about the brand, brand, brand, but not about the person.
00:25:05 Yeah.
00:25:06 So.
00:25:06 Well, you've gone through some major life changes in recent weeks.
00:25:11 Yes.
00:25:11 And very public about your breast reduction, your backside reduced and getting your fillers
00:25:18 dissolved.
00:25:19 Yes.
00:25:19 Why did you choose to do it so publicly?
00:25:21 It just came to me.
00:25:23 It came from God.
00:25:25 Honestly, when I posted, I didn't even think that it was going to be as big as it was.
00:25:30 And then by me seeing that, it made me feel like, wow, like really comfortable to even
00:25:34 go back on the Internet because I kind of like stop posting as much as I used to.
00:25:38 But now, like everybody has been supporting it.
00:25:42 So I'm like, OK, this gives me like the courage to keep going and see how far I can go.
00:25:47 So it makes me feel really good.
00:25:49 I'm glad I did do it.
00:25:50 You are receiving overwhelming support.
00:25:52 Yeah, I didn't even.
00:25:53 Yeah, it just came to me.
00:25:55 I didn't even think it was going to be as big as it is.
00:25:57 It was or is.
00:25:59 Yeah, everyone's really proud of you.
00:26:01 Yeah, thank you.
00:26:02 So you said it came from God.
00:26:04 Tell me about that.
00:26:06 I want to know about the work we're not seeing because I know you had to do a lot of
00:26:11 internal work as well.
00:26:12 Yes, and continuing to also.
00:26:15 So on my birthday, I got I got baptized on my birthday.
00:26:19 So I was reborn on my birthday and that was May 11th of 2022.
00:26:23 So from there, I was like, you know, just start taking the steps that I knew, which
00:26:28 was more of the truth, you know, like what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong.
00:26:32 So that's kind of like how I've been stepping, going to church.
00:26:36 Hi, Bishop James.
00:26:38 I'm going to church and just having my church family and my the other people that like pray
00:26:45 for me and pray with me because you can't do it by yourself.
00:26:47 You can, but it's better when you have like your church family, your prayer warriors,
00:26:53 because there's some days where you might feel like, OK, this is like too much for me.
00:26:56 We need to call back.
00:26:57 I got to call back up like I need the extra prayers today.
00:27:01 So what do you mean?
00:27:02 This is too much for me.
00:27:03 Just like life in general.
00:27:06 Sometimes it can become like overwhelming, especially like when you're in the spotlight
00:27:11 and they just keep me grounded.
00:27:14 God keeps me grounded and they keep me grounded, too.
00:27:16 As far as.
00:27:17 As far as like human wise, you have like your spiritual, but then you have human form, too.
00:27:23 So both of those combined is helping me get through the things I need to get through and
00:27:30 get back to myself.
00:27:32 Right.
00:27:32 When the world is chaotic, my faith is steady.
00:27:35 Yes.
00:27:36 So I want to switch gears a bit.
00:27:39 OK.
00:27:40 You also deactivated your OnlyFans account.
00:27:43 And I hear that was the source of a lot of your money.
00:27:47 And I want to just clear this up right now because there is a two hundred and thirty
00:27:51 nine million dollar discrepancy right now going on.
00:27:54 See, you have.
00:27:55 So April 2022, you said you made one million dollars from it in 2021.
00:28:03 But now I'm seeing reports that are saying two hundred and forty million.
00:28:06 What's the actual number?
00:28:08 The actual number, it was close to two million within a two, right within a two year span.
00:28:16 So I opened it in 2020.
00:28:20 So right when the pandemic hit, I opened it because I was like, oh, my gosh, like what's
00:28:24 about to happen?
00:28:25 And I had just recently did a TV show called OnlyCams where I produced it and filmed on
00:28:32 it just a little bit.
00:28:33 So it kind of like gave me the leeway to kind of doing it because it was something that
00:28:37 I didn't want to do at first.
00:28:39 But at the time, I had so many lawsuits and so many things that I was dealing with.
00:28:43 Aside from that, I'm like, I got to figure out how can I like continue to have like my
00:28:48 house, take care of my kids, do everything I need to do.
00:28:51 So that's why I started the OnlyFans.
00:28:53 But I definitely let's clear this up.
00:28:55 I definitely did not make two hundred and forty million.
00:28:57 I definitely did.
00:28:59 She did not make two hundred and forty million, you guys.
00:29:01 So I know a major part of that, as you said, was to provide for your kids and kind of keep
00:29:08 up that standard of living that they're accustomed to.
00:29:11 Yes.
00:29:11 How do you plan on doing that going forward?
00:29:14 I'm letting faith lead me, honestly, and it's been it's been it's been really good.
00:29:20 Like I'm not even worrying about like where is like my next deal or where is this coming
00:29:25 from?
00:29:25 Where is this coming from?
00:29:26 I'm just going to put my right foot in front of my left and my left foot in front of my
00:29:29 right and keep it pushing.
00:29:31 I totally understand.
00:29:32 Yeah, I do.
00:29:33 Yeah.
00:29:34 But Angela, what happened?
00:29:37 What really happened to to make you go through such a radical change?
00:29:43 Um, nothing really happened.
00:29:47 I just like I said, like I just started working out, working out sobriety and like my Bible.
00:29:54 That's it.
00:29:54 Those are the three things that I have have been sticking with for the past seven months.
00:29:59 And just over that time, it has shown me like really like, OK, like, who are you?
00:30:05 Like, what is it that you want to do?
00:30:06 What's the example that you want to set?
00:30:08 Like, how are you feeling?
00:30:10 Like, is this really you?
00:30:12 You know, because we put on like hair and makeup, designer clothes to like cover up
00:30:16 something, you know, and I want to put like my insecurities aside and really step into
00:30:22 like the light, like my own light.
00:30:24 You are you without all of that.
00:30:27 Yes.
00:30:28 And there was no one exact moment.
00:30:35 There was no one defining moment you can think of that just made you realize I have to do
00:30:41 something.
00:30:42 It was it.
00:30:43 Really?
00:30:45 Literally, I'm just I've been just like walking on water.
00:30:48 Yeah.
00:30:49 It wasn't like, OK, this happened.
00:30:51 I didn't get sick.
00:30:52 I wasn't ill.
00:30:53 Nothing of the sort.
00:30:56 I was just like, you know what?
00:30:57 Working out.
00:30:59 I mean, working out is what kind of like maybe kind of led to it a little bit because I start,
00:31:03 as I said before, when I started working out, all of the filler started to become more
00:31:08 protruded because I started to slim down.
00:31:10 I can really see like my facial structure, but nothing like traumatic that's that happened.
00:31:16 Nothing traumatic that changed your heart.
00:31:18 I mean, all that I could think of is just God.
00:31:25 That's all I could think of.
00:31:26 You know what?
00:31:27 That's a good enough answer.
00:31:29 Yeah, that is.
00:31:29 It's nothing.
00:31:30 It's nothing.
00:31:30 God.
00:31:32 Yeah.
00:31:32 But I want to go back to your childhood.
00:31:34 Can you tell me who was Angela Renee White back then?
00:31:39 Fun, adventurous, loud, squeaky voice.
00:31:45 Let me see.
00:31:50 What else?
00:31:51 Just really chill.
00:31:54 Like I was a chill child.
00:31:56 Like I never really got into like trouble.
00:31:58 I always made good grades.
00:31:59 Lovable.
00:32:00 Athletic.
00:32:02 Yeah.
00:32:04 All right.
00:32:04 So you were shy.
00:32:05 Were you outgoing?
00:32:07 Outgoing.
00:32:07 Outgoing for sure.
00:32:09 Okay.
00:32:09 All right.
00:32:10 And I want to know, did you feel similar or different from the other girls your age?
00:32:15 I felt, I definitely didn't feel the same as them.
00:32:23 I always like felt like myself.
00:32:25 Yeah.
00:32:25 I was more like a leader in my crew.
00:32:28 Yeah.
00:32:30 What do you attribute that to?
00:32:31 Say it again?
00:32:32 What do you attribute that to?
00:32:34 Being a leader and feeling a little different.
00:32:37 Um, it just, it came natural.
00:32:40 Like I felt, it felt natural.
00:32:42 But like looking back, I'm like, okay, yeah.
00:32:44 Like, okay.
00:32:44 Yeah.
00:32:45 Yeah.
00:32:45 It was like natural, but not like leader, like follow me, like listen to me.
00:32:49 But just like, hey, y'all want to see something cool or like something of the lines of that.
00:32:55 Like the same way.
00:32:56 I'm the same way now.
00:32:56 I'm like, yo, y'all want to see something cool?
00:32:58 Like I just did this.
00:33:00 Yeah.
00:33:00 Okay.
00:33:01 So I want to talk about your relationship with your mother.
00:33:05 How was that growing up?
00:33:06 Was she a shoulder to lean on or did you find solace somewhere else?
00:33:12 So, um, my mom, I love my mom, everybody.
00:33:16 Um, Hey mom.
00:33:17 So like growing up, like my mom, she was always like a hustler to this day.
00:33:22 So she, I felt was always like doing her thing, sort of.
00:33:25 So like for me, um, I will be with my grandmother and I would be like with my godparents, like
00:33:31 different people.
00:33:32 Yeah.
00:33:33 Did your grandma teach you something?
00:33:36 Yes. She taught me a lot of stuff.
00:33:37 What did she teach you that sticks with you to this day?
00:33:39 Man.
00:33:40 Cause like growing up, we didn't have money and stuff like that.
00:33:43 So we would just do things to, to improvise and make the best out of everything.
00:33:49 So just, it helps me now that I'm older.
00:33:51 She taught me how to cook, how to clean, like how to get on your knees and pray, how to
00:33:57 be a lady.
00:33:57 Um, just all those things combined.
00:34:00 So it sounds like you come from a family full of women who are survivors.
00:34:05 They did what they had to do to make it to the next day.
00:34:09 Yes.
00:34:10 I want to know what was your first job?
00:34:11 My very first job was at McDonald's and I was 15 in nine months.
00:34:17 I couldn't wait to get a job.
00:34:19 And 15 and you chose McDonald's.
00:34:21 You didn't care.
00:34:22 Yep.
00:34:23 15.
00:34:23 Yep.
00:34:23 And I was making like $325 every two weeks.
00:34:27 Like, well, that's a lot of money.
00:34:28 Like, yeah.
00:34:29 Yeah.
00:34:30 But it was yours.
00:34:31 It was mine.
00:34:31 And that was what was important.
00:34:33 Yes.
00:34:33 And I know you also worked at Hooters.
00:34:35 What's that next after McDonald's?
00:34:37 So after Hooters, I did McDonald's, Taco Bell, Golden Corral, Shoe City, Uno's Pizzeria.
00:34:49 And then my final step was my final like job, job, punching the clock was Hooters.
00:34:55 And after this, I was like, you know what?
00:34:57 I gots to get out of here.
00:34:59 I got to, I got to, I got to make more money than this.
00:35:02 Yeah.
00:35:03 So then I went to another place.
00:35:04 Well, you also went to college.
00:35:07 Yes.
00:35:07 You went to Johnson and Wales University.
00:35:09 What was it?
00:35:10 What did you feel like when you got your acceptance letter?
00:35:12 It was a very exciting moment.
00:35:15 It was a very exciting moment because I wasn't sure.
00:35:18 It's like always nerve wracking because you apply, but you're like, man, please, I want
00:35:22 to get in.
00:35:22 I want to get in.
00:35:23 So when I got accepted, I felt really good.
00:35:25 Yeah.
00:35:25 And what was your plan at that moment?
00:35:27 You got accepted.
00:35:28 What did you want to do with your life then?
00:35:31 So I was going to go to school for fashion merchandising, which that's what I applied
00:35:35 for.
00:35:35 And which this was in Johnson and Wales in Miami.
00:35:41 So they have like different locations.
00:35:42 I think they have one in Providence, Florida, but I think they recently closed down the
00:35:47 one in Florida.
00:35:48 But my plans was to go to Florida with my god sister, do fashion merchandising with her
00:35:53 and just maybe open a business.
00:35:57 Just after that, we don't know what we just wanted to get the Florida and go to school.
00:36:01 But you just wanted to get the Florida.
00:36:03 We had to get to Florida.
00:36:04 Yeah.
00:36:04 I had to get away from D.C.
00:36:05 I feel you.
00:36:06 Yeah.
00:36:06 OK.
00:36:07 And in the warm weather.
00:36:08 Yep.
00:36:10 So you get there, you get to school and you discover dancing in strip clubs.
00:36:19 What was that like for you?
00:36:22 You were making far more money, I'm sure, than most of your friends at school.
00:36:26 What was that like?
00:36:27 Right.
00:36:28 OK, so let's back the story up just a little bit.
00:36:31 Yeah.
00:36:31 So when I got accepted into Johnson and Wales University, I didn't have any money.
00:36:35 So from the hooters, that's when I was like, I need to figure out how to make some money.
00:36:41 So that's when I started dancing at the strip club in D.C.
00:36:45 So I did that for two years.
00:36:47 And one day, by this time, I had my apartment, my two bedroom apartment.
00:36:51 I had my two cars.
00:36:53 I had my little dog, Mango.
00:36:55 Like I was just doing it.
00:36:56 Right.
00:36:57 And one day something was like, like this, something came over me was like, look inside
00:37:01 this box.
00:37:02 It was just papers.
00:37:03 So I'm like looking through the papers and I seen Johnson and Wales and I kind of looked
00:37:07 at it and I was like, I could have been like here.
00:37:10 So I'm just I'm just like, sorry.
00:37:14 I'm like, OK, I'm looking at the piece of paper.
00:37:15 So I started to read it and I noticed that I did.
00:37:19 It said that it was valid for two years.
00:37:21 Immediately I picked up the phone, I call my grandma.
00:37:25 I was like, Grandma, this is the last year for my acceptance.
00:37:27 I need to get down there like now.
00:37:30 So I called the school.
00:37:31 They're like, listen, if you can make orientation, you could come and start the school year.
00:37:37 So my grandma's like, Grandma, listen, I'm going to get you from Virginia and then I'm
00:37:41 going to drive us all the way from Maryland, all the way to Florida and then back home
00:37:45 so we don't miss this orientation.
00:37:47 Like flights wasn't even like in my mind.
00:37:49 I'm just like, just get there like now.
00:37:52 So she was like, yes, of course, I'll go long as we can stop at the south of the border.
00:37:56 And I was like, OK, so I drove us all the way down there.
00:37:59 We stopped at the south of the border.
00:38:01 She wanted to get the Last Supper picture, some back scratchers, a little sombrero.
00:38:05 So we did that and drove us back.
00:38:09 And then after that, I was like, Grandma, this is it.
00:38:11 I'm about to move to Florida.
00:38:13 I saved up my money so I could go and like pay pay them.
00:38:17 And I was actually living on campus.
00:38:20 So everything that I had in my apartment, I was like, Grandma, you can have everything
00:38:23 here.
00:38:23 I'm not taking any stuff with me.
00:38:25 I packed what I could in my Dodge Charger and drove to Florida and never look back.
00:38:30 Wow.
00:38:30 But the goal was the goal to actually go to the school or just to get to Florida?
00:38:36 To go to the school, to go and finish what I started.
00:38:38 Yeah, that's beautiful.
00:38:41 Yeah.
00:38:41 All right.
00:38:42 But I do want to go back to you making far more money.
00:38:45 Clearly, you were already making money, but now I'm sure you're making even more money
00:38:50 than that.
00:38:51 What was that like being a student, being so young, juggling, working at one of the
00:38:59 biggest strip clubs in the nation and trying to live an everyday student life by day?
00:39:06 It was a conflict of interest.
00:39:14 I feel like that's the best way to explain it.
00:39:15 So me trying to dance at night to pay for school during the day, it's no way possible
00:39:22 you could do it.
00:39:23 So I was falling asleep in class, things like that.
00:39:26 I didn't finish.
00:39:27 I only did two years, but maybe I'll come back and finish.
00:39:31 So you were in school, you were dancing.
00:39:32 How much money were you making at that time?
00:39:36 Honestly, it was coming in so fast and leaving so fast, I couldn't even tell you.
00:39:42 But certain nights you could make anywhere from a slow night, you could make $200.
00:39:47 And that's like a slow night.
00:39:49 A really good night, you can make like $5,000.
00:39:53 The most I've ever made ever in one night was $12,000.
00:39:57 In one night?
00:39:59 Yes.
00:39:59 I'm in the wrong career.
00:40:02 Okay.
00:40:02 Okay.
00:40:04 At what point, was it in school or was it after you decided to leave?
00:40:11 Did you realize, I'm starting to blow up.
00:40:15 People are starting to know my name.
00:40:16 It was when I feel like the real breaking point was when 2010, I was Nicki Minaj's stunt double.
00:40:26 So being a stunt double, it's like, you know that it's you, but you're a stunt double.
00:40:30 So it was kind of like, hmm, that was in 2010.
00:40:32 And then Drake had came out with a song called "Miss Me" that featured like the club and like
00:40:39 my name and then that's when it started to really blow up.
00:40:42 So I was still dancing in a club while the song that Drake had mentioned me in "Miss Me."
00:40:48 And it was kind of crazy because people was like, she already got money.
00:40:53 She's already famous.
00:40:53 So they didn't want to dance with me.
00:40:55 And I'm like, if this was true, like I wouldn't be here.
00:40:58 No, like give me some money.
00:41:01 It's my job.
00:41:02 Okay.
00:41:04 So Drake is mentioning your name, but did it hit you yet?
00:41:08 I'm somebody, I'm famous.
00:41:10 Um, no, I don't, I don't think so.
00:41:15 It didn't hit me, no.
00:41:16 Not famous.
00:41:18 I mean, being mentioned in a song, I have, it's different levels of famous, I think, for me.
00:41:23 Angela, if Drake mentions me in a song.
00:41:26 Okay.
00:41:29 You see where I'm going with this.
00:41:31 Right.
00:41:31 Okay.
00:41:31 Okay.
00:41:32 All right.
00:41:34 Maybe.
00:41:36 Maybe.
00:41:37 What were your friends like?
00:41:38 Were they jealous?
00:41:39 How did they feel?
00:41:39 The other girls at the club?
00:41:41 They thought it was cool.
00:41:42 Your friends?
00:41:43 Yeah.
00:41:43 Those are some real friends.
00:41:45 Yeah, no, they wasn't jealous, really.
00:41:46 No, I don't never really give off that, like, vibe for you to really be jealous.
00:41:50 If you just jealous, you're just a total hater.
00:41:53 That's not cool.
00:41:54 That's not cool.
00:41:55 That's not cool.
00:41:56 Okay.
00:41:57 So looking back at who you were in your, in your young 20s, what would you tell yourself now as
00:42:05 you're going through this life transformation?
00:42:07 What would you tell that girl who basically birthed Black China?
00:42:12 Control your emotions.
00:42:20 Yeah.
00:42:22 Why would you say that?
00:42:24 Because I feel like if you can control your emotions, you can control everything about
00:42:30 you and control the room.
00:42:33 Because we're humans, so everything's based off of emotion, like how we feel and this and
00:42:38 that.
00:42:38 But if you could control your emotions, you could control everything that's brought to
00:42:45 you.
00:42:46 And you could send off a different type of energy.
00:42:48 Right.
00:42:49 Yeah.
00:42:49 So do you have any regrets?
00:42:51 Would you do it all the exact same way?
00:42:53 I would do it all the same exact way.
00:42:55 Oh, okay.
00:42:56 Yeah, I would.
00:42:56 So what is next?
00:43:00 Is this the end of Black China?
00:43:03 It's definitely not the end of Black China.
00:43:07 I think now it's more the separation of it.
00:43:09 You know, it's like if I'm performing and things like that, that's Black China.
00:43:14 Like if I'm home and I'm with the kids and I'm, or if I'm doing my business stuff and
00:43:18 I'm doing deals, that's Angela.
00:43:20 Like how we're just sitting right here and we're having a conversation.
00:43:22 This is Angela.
00:43:23 This is Angela.
00:43:24 Now we go and we got to go get glam, hair, nails, makeup, we got costumes.
00:43:28 That's definitely Black China.
00:43:30 Yeah.
00:43:30 Yeah.
00:43:31 Do you think you have enough space to do that?
00:43:34 I know you've done it on some level for probably a number of years, but sometimes I know when
00:43:42 you're trying to, when you're trying to get away from who you've been and step into who
00:43:46 you're trying to be, do you want who you've been to be so close, just right there next
00:43:54 to you going forward?
00:43:56 Yes, absolutely.
00:43:58 I feel like who we are is who we are.
00:44:00 It's just unlocking our full potential within.
00:44:04 Yeah.
00:44:05 Because it's not like it's something new that's brought into our lives.
00:44:09 It's just unlocking who's really inside of here.
00:44:11 So that's what I'm kind of doing right now, unlocking who's in here, that inner childhood,
00:44:18 all of that.
00:44:18 Because we're born how we're born and things like that.
00:44:23 And that's why even me reading books and certain things to reprogram my mindset.
00:44:29 To unlock that.
00:44:30 And who's supporting you on this journey?
00:44:32 Who's supported me?
00:44:33 I have a lot of people supporting me, actually.
00:44:36 Even the guys that's watching right now are supporting me.
00:44:39 But I have a lot of support.
00:44:40 And I feel like mostly like support can come from different ways.
00:44:47 You have emotional, physical, business, just everything.
00:44:53 And who's been your main shoulder to lean on during this time?
00:44:57 Main shoulder to lean on?
00:45:00 Other than God.
00:45:01 I would have to say my Bishop James.
00:45:05 Really?
00:45:06 Yeah, I talk to him all the time.
00:45:07 Wow.
00:45:09 He just called me like that too long ago.
00:45:10 Like, "Baby, you okay?"
00:45:11 I'm like, "Yes, I'm good. I'm good."
00:45:12 Yeah.
00:45:14 Is your mother, is she not on this journey with you?
00:45:18 No, not at the moment.
00:45:21 I mean, she is in prayer.
00:45:23 You know, I pray for her and make sure she's good and her well-being and things like that.
00:45:27 But these are things I feel like she has to deal with herself.
00:45:32 Like, no, I can't tell her what to do or nobody can tell her what to do, you know?
00:45:37 But hopefully one day she will, you know, come into her zen, you know?
00:45:42 Because my mom, she's really smart.
00:45:44 Like, she's really beautiful, all of that.
00:45:46 You know, and just growing up, even like looking at some of the things that she do, I now do.
00:45:50 Like, just little things.
00:45:52 I'm like, "Hey, my mom used to do that."
00:45:54 And I do it now too.
00:45:55 So it's like certain things that we do pick up on that we carry from our parents
00:46:01 because that's what we see.
00:46:02 And that's why I'm so adamant on the things that I'm doing now
00:46:05 because I want Dream to pick up on the things that I'm doing.
00:46:08 So if I'm in a gym and I'm working out, she'll come work out with me.
00:46:12 Or if like we're eating like our healthy stuff and King and just us as a group, as a group.
00:46:19 I'm like the mama, but you know, it's my posse.
00:46:22 Yeah, I just want them to pick up on the positive traits and things like that.
00:46:26 That's going to help them in the long term.
00:46:27 Yeah.
00:46:29 Yeah.
00:46:29 What do you intend on telling Dream?
00:46:33 Because she's going to grow up and she's going to be able to understand everything that's out there.
00:46:38 How do you intend on explaining all of those situations with
00:46:43 the other side of her family and everything to her?
00:46:46 I don't think that it's going to be any type of explanation.
00:46:50 Me talking to Dream and things like that because it's going to be so far behind, you know,
00:46:57 and every day we're growing and growing and growing.
00:46:59 And I'm pretty sure that the relationship between everybody is going to become more better.
00:47:05 You know, people have to heal.
00:47:06 Time has to pass and only time will tell.
00:47:09 But on my end, everything's like positive.
00:47:11 There's nothing like negative at all.
00:47:13 Yeah.
00:47:13 That's where you are.
00:47:15 Yeah.
00:47:15 So what is next for Angela?
00:47:18 So what's next for me, Angela, the businesswoman, Black China, the brand,
00:47:23 the music, music, television, film, and also two more new business ventures.
00:47:31 Yeah.
00:47:32 Can you tell us more?
00:47:33 See, I'm a creator and I like to create things and I like to do it from A to Z.
00:47:39 So I feel like now by me posting that video, it makes me want to
00:47:44 post like the journey of creating like a new business venture.
00:47:48 Um, and showing them like the steps and how to do it and where does it stem from?
00:47:53 Because I want to like inspire other people because everybody, we're all creators.
00:47:56 We just have to unlock it.
00:47:58 You know what I mean?
00:47:59 And once you unlock it, it's going to be so good for you.
00:48:02 Oh, yeah.
00:48:04 I want to know, you said television.
00:48:05 Yes.
00:48:06 Do you have a new show coming out?
00:48:07 What's going on?
00:48:08 Um, yes, we just got picked up for the Black Hampton season two.
00:48:12 Yeah.
00:48:13 So I'm really excited about that.
00:48:15 And also to like more, more movies.
00:48:17 And I don't want to say two, two of them because it's not fully in writing and paper
00:48:25 in black and white yet, but I'm really excited about it.
00:48:30 Yeah.
00:48:31 And it's just lining up because like, I feel like even with some of the characters,
00:48:35 if you think about it, most people that act and actresses, they have like their flaws
00:48:40 and their things.
00:48:40 And it's like, you can't have like a perfect face and these type of boobs and the butt,
00:48:46 you know, or you're just going to get casted for just this type of role.
00:48:51 Like I want to do all types of role.
00:48:53 I want to do thriller, like action.
00:48:56 I want to do some, you know, some crazy stuff, jumping out of the buildings, you know.
00:49:00 Comedy.
00:49:02 Don't put me in a box.
00:49:04 Don't put you in a box.
00:49:07 So Angela, can you tell me something that you haven't told anyone else yet?
00:49:12 Okay.
00:49:13 So something that I haven't told anyone yet, and I'm going to let you know today,
00:49:17 is that I have a hair factory in Asia.
00:49:20 Really?
00:49:21 Tell me more.
00:49:22 Yes.
00:49:24 A hair factory in Asia.
00:49:25 A hair factory.
00:49:27 Yes.
00:49:27 So what are you doing?
00:49:29 Explain that to me.
00:49:31 I don't, I'm not in the hair business.
00:49:33 Okay.
00:49:33 So basically this is going back to what I was telling you about, like empowering women to
00:49:39 like start their own businesses and things like that.
00:49:41 Name of the company is called the Hair Plug Agency.
00:49:43 So basically we'll do like your website, your logo and all of that.
00:49:48 But the factory is hair extensions, but we have the donors that come.
00:49:54 So it's all raw hair.
00:49:55 And we have the different sections.
00:49:57 I'll show you some of the videos, but we have the different sections for where we wash it,
00:50:01 cut it, ship it, all of that.
00:50:03 So now not only am I going to just be empowering just myself, I'm going to give the chance for
00:50:08 other women to go out and make their own money and be financially stable just by themselves.
00:50:15 So I feel like that's like, that's like really, really, it makes me feel really good about it.
00:50:22 So I'm excited about that.
00:50:24 Exactly.
00:50:24 And nobody knows about it.
00:50:25 No.
00:50:26 Except for you know now.
00:50:27 And then everybody know now.
00:50:29 So is that going to be your main source of income now?
00:50:33 Like how much money is it making?
00:50:34 I'm actually about to release it this week.
00:50:38 Oh wow.
00:50:40 Yeah, I had to do all like the back end and all that.
00:50:42 But no, it's not going to be my main source of income, but definitely one.
00:50:46 Because I learned over the years and I've had like many deals with different people.
00:50:51 And what happens is when you have these deals and say like if they don't want to work with
00:50:57 you or renew the contract, what happens is you're accustomed to a certain lifestyle now
00:51:02 and getting a certain amount of money.
00:51:04 And then when you're not getting that certain amount of money, then that's when you start
00:51:08 to lose everything.
00:51:09 That's why you see certain people where like they had it and then they didn't.
00:51:13 It's because they didn't start their own companies and their own businesses to make
00:51:18 sure that they can keep it going.
00:51:19 Because if you're betting on yourself, how could you let yourself down?
00:51:23 And once you learn the business like by yourself, then you could bring on other people to run
00:51:30 it for you.
00:51:31 But you have to put in the work, like you have to build a foundation of it.
00:51:34 Know the ins and outs of it, like how like what's the marketing, like how to do this,
00:51:40 how to do that.
00:51:41 But that comes over time.
00:51:42 And once you learn that and you master that, then you could go on to the next thing.
00:51:46 It's important to own your own stuff.
00:51:49 It's very important.
00:51:50 It's very important, especially in the entertainment industry.
00:51:53 OK, we're in general, like honestly, like we want to own something, you know, even the
00:51:57 Bible says you should own land.
00:51:59 Where can we find more about this information?
00:52:02 You can go to heartspear.com and it'll be listed there.
00:52:06 Well, thank you so much for agreeing to do this interview with me.
00:52:09 Thank you.
00:52:10 This was really nice.
00:52:11 I'm really excited.
00:52:12 Yes.
00:52:12 Yes.
00:52:13 And thank you.
00:52:13 You were awesome.
00:52:14 Thank you.
00:52:15 Joining me now is author, director and producer, Dina Racero.
00:52:18 Dina, thank you so much for joining me today.
00:52:20 Thank you for having me.
00:52:21 You wear many hats.
00:52:23 You are also a tireless advocate for trans rights.
00:52:26 And right now, trans rights in America are really are at a turning point here.
00:52:30 They are under assault politically.
00:52:32 In 2023 alone, over 80 anti-trans bills have reportedly been passed.
00:52:37 When you hear that number, what's your response?
00:52:39 You know, let me just say first that I was born and raised in the Philippines.
00:52:45 I've had this long journey of a life where trans people in the Philippines barely have
00:52:50 any rights at all.
00:52:51 Right.
00:52:52 So I want to take that into consideration in my perspective, especially with what's
00:52:57 happening right now.
00:52:58 There's a couple of things.
00:53:00 One is like it's horrible what they're trying to do.
00:53:02 A group of people that's supposed to protect all citizens are specifically demonizing what's
00:53:09 already the most vulnerable in our community.
00:53:11 Right.
00:53:11 So that's one answer to that.
00:53:13 The second part is I know my community as a trans people, particularly trans youth,
00:53:18 we know our truth.
00:53:20 We've known it since the very beginning.
00:53:22 So there's nothing wrong with us.
00:53:23 It's them to be completely spiritually honest.
00:53:28 I think it's them so afraid to look within themselves the truth that we speak about.
00:53:33 Right.
00:53:33 Here we are in a world that doesn't want us to exist, in a world that doesn't create
00:53:38 a space for us.
00:53:39 We still choose to live our life fully because that's what we're about.
00:53:45 So I so and then the other side of that, it's like now more than ever, trans people, you
00:53:50 know, the people who are saying that they're allies, we need accomplices right now.
00:53:54 We really need more than like, you know, the lip service because it's really what's happening
00:54:01 on the ground.
00:54:01 I'm friends with a lot of people that are working on the ground.
00:54:04 It's really dire.
00:54:05 And I think, you know, mutual aid support system would help, but more so we need to
00:54:10 hear more as a trans community what's being done in support of us.
00:54:14 Let's talk about those accomplices.
00:54:16 How do you, how should people join this conversation?
00:54:20 People that might not have a platform, people that aren't political leaders.
00:54:24 How does just a person who wants to be an ally, wants to be an accomplished join?
00:54:28 And where do you see the difference between being an accomplice and being an ally?
00:54:31 I mean, it's also when people ask me like the definition of an ally.
00:54:36 I mean, purely for me, the ally is it's a verb, not a noun.
00:54:42 It's what you do.
00:54:44 And really deeply, if we want to look deeply into that, like it's really about, it's the
00:54:50 marginalized community gets to say that one is an ally.
00:54:53 Right?
00:54:54 Not one gets to automatically define that ally.
00:54:57 But what does that really mean?
00:54:58 Right?
00:54:59 And then it should be a constant dynamic conversation about what needs to be done.
00:55:03 Right?
00:55:04 So that's, you know, that's first.
00:55:07 And the second thing is like, we know that policies could only go so far.
00:55:14 As I mentioned earlier, like I'm from the community of the Philippines, where it's all
00:55:18 about the community.
00:55:19 Like I exist not as an individual in the Philippines.
00:55:23 I exist because I'm a reflection of community.
00:55:25 And I think now we never really need to really deep within what this community really means.
00:55:31 Community where we truly care for one another, where we do mutual aid support, where someone
00:55:36 is going through mental health issues.
00:55:39 We need to be there for them.
00:55:40 Besides just like this overarching political policies that we need to obviously advocate
00:55:46 for.
00:55:46 Right?
00:55:46 The other big next step thing is really both.
00:55:51 You know, what's coming up.
00:55:52 It's been, I'm not exaggerating here.
00:55:57 It's really so much on the line here, not just for trans folks, but like anybody that
00:56:03 for so long in this country that's been considered as the other.
00:56:06 It's true what they say.
00:56:08 When they come for me, when they come for us, they come for you.
00:56:11 And we see that now more than ever happening more and more.
00:56:15 You said you're from the Philippines and there aren't as many rights for trans people
00:56:22 there.
00:56:22 What in America do you think is missing from this conversation, especially at a national
00:56:26 level?
00:56:27 I think, you know, just to pinpoint what I'm in the Philippines, I was from the culture
00:56:32 of trans beauty pageants in the Philippines, where we've always been part of mainstream
00:56:35 society in the Philippines.
00:56:37 It's complicated because I always say that trans people in the Philippines are culturally
00:56:41 visible, right?
00:56:42 We're part of mainstream, but we're not politically recognized.
00:56:45 But for my personal journey of moving to America, I experienced the other way around.
00:56:49 There was a degree of political recognition at the time, but there was no cultural visibility
00:56:53 the way that we're having now.
00:56:55 I think nationally, I think it should be both, right?
00:56:58 That kind of political recognition where we have the most basic rights that we're asking
00:57:03 for.
00:57:03 I mean, it's the basic rights to exist, to identify as we are, to create a safe space.
00:57:09 These are basic things, right?
00:57:11 But also the way trans people and gender nonconforming people are portrayed in media, we're the first
00:57:17 ones to get demonized, right?
00:57:19 I think that kind of dynamic conversation always has to happen.
00:57:22 And because we're also, I'm in the media, I do work in front of the media.
00:57:31 As a society, as a culture, we're obsessed with this thing called visibility.
00:57:35 And we now know since when I did my TED Talk in 2014, where it's all about be visible,
00:57:41 visible, be out, we now know that that could only go so far.
00:57:45 I think those things that I'm saying about the dynamic conversation about basic rights,
00:57:50 mutual aid, access to the most basic things about mental health care, and how we treat
00:57:55 each other in the community every day, some of the things that are most important.
00:58:01 You've been at the forefront of this conversation, at least since 2014, when you did that really
00:58:06 empowering, powerful TED Talk.
00:58:08 And we're at the Power Women Summit now.
00:58:11 And one of the major themes of today is lifting the women who are coming behind us up on our
00:58:16 shoulders.
00:58:16 How are you doing that?
00:58:19 And what's your one piece of advice that you wish you received maybe 10 years ago, 20 years
00:58:24 ago?
00:58:25 You know, as a writer, producer, director now, I remember after that TED Talk, this
00:58:32 viral TED Talk that I did in 2014, the next thing I knew I was speaking at the United
00:58:36 Nations, White House, all the places, right?
00:58:39 And yes, in the moment, it was really important for me, the only one, I would find myself
00:58:45 to be the only trans person, to be the only woman in the room, to be the only person of
00:58:51 color in the room, right?
00:58:53 And in some instance at the beginning, I felt like, "Oh, yeah, you're trailblazing here."
00:58:59 But it came to a point where I realized I wanted to question the system that allowed
00:59:04 me to be who I am.
00:59:05 And once I started doing that, maybe some people would think that I've opened doors.
00:59:12 I began to think that like maybe how do I keep that door open?
00:59:15 And how do I bring people with me?
00:59:17 And as a storyteller, as a writer, you know, I had a production company, or be given a
00:59:22 platform and the biggest media companies to produce docuseries, stories, about what it
00:59:27 means to be trans and gender nonconforming and really share the vast experiences of lived
00:59:33 reality of trans people, not just from my perspective, but perspective of so many people.
00:59:38 You said in this conversation, so much is on the line.
00:59:42 As we said at the top, over 80 anti-trans bills were passed just this year alone.
00:59:48 We're not even through 2023 yet.
00:59:50 But are you seeing any glimmers of hope anywhere?
00:59:53 I'd say this.
00:59:54 When I've, you know, I have so many conversations with trans youth, I'm friends with so many
00:59:59 people that are on the ground.
01:00:01 When people ask me, "What do I say to young trans folks that's maybe feeling obviously
01:00:07 the dire reality that they're seeing, especially what's happening in the media?"
01:00:11 I tell them, "You've been part of a long history of trans and gender nonconforming
01:00:20 people since the very beginning of time, since pre-colonial times.
01:00:25 We've existed.
01:00:27 We've survived.
01:00:29 We're still here.
01:00:30 You're part of this long journey of resilience, beauty, and power.
01:00:35 Remember that because it might seem very dire right now.
01:00:40 Try to remember that you've been part of this long journey.
01:00:44 And we will get through this by being with each other as a community."
01:00:48 So that's what I tell them.
01:00:49 It may not create that instant gratification of like, "I don't want to offer, you know,
01:00:55 fake solutions that it will get better right away."
01:00:57 But certainly the bigger picture is that this has been a long journey and we're still here.
01:01:03 And we're still on this journey.
01:01:05 You don't want to offer fake solutions, but what do you see maybe as the solution
01:01:10 five years down the road, 10 years down the road?
01:01:12 What does that really look like?
01:01:13 I'd say this from my perspective as an artist.
01:01:16 I love creating art where I get to create worlds that are maybe not expected of me.
01:01:25 And even as a Filipina, that's not my first trajectory to pursue a career in art.
01:01:32 So I tell them is to, in as much as we're being vilified in the media right now,
01:01:38 keep living your truth.
01:01:39 Keep living unapologetically as you are because the best advocacy that one could do
01:01:45 for themselves is to fully live as they are, despite what the world is telling them to act,
01:01:53 you know, to be a certain way.
01:01:54 So I do want to talk about your upcoming projects really quickly.
01:01:58 You just released a memoir called "Horse Barbie" back in May.
01:02:02 Yes.
01:02:02 And what's the, first tell us about the memoir, but also what's next for Gina?
01:02:07 Well, I'm still on a book tour.
01:02:09 So I know I'm going on book tours in universities now.
01:02:11 So that's a very particular special thing for me to go and visit college universities
01:02:19 because my mom is a teacher.
01:02:20 And for me, it's simple why I love going to universities because I wish when I was in
01:02:26 school, there was someone like me who's so proud and unapologetic about living their truth.
01:02:32 I could just imagine what it would have done for me at the time in my life.
01:02:37 So I think about that, what it could do to a young gender non-conformer or just any young
01:02:43 college student that wants to see a different perspective in the world, you know, and maybe
01:02:47 it could open up a new perspective for them.
01:02:49 So I enjoy doing that.
01:02:51 And as I mentioned, I'm directing, I'm producing this.
01:02:55 That's the extent that I could share.
01:02:58 So I want to direct more.
01:03:00 So that's, and write more.
01:03:02 And yeah.
01:03:03 Well, we will look out for upcoming projects.
01:03:05 Gina, thank you so much for joining me.
01:03:07 Thank you for having me.
01:03:08 The 2023 BLK Summit in Atlanta, man.
01:03:11 Nick Cannon in the house, man.
01:03:13 Really appreciate the time.
01:03:14 What do you think of the event, man?
01:03:15 Jabari, man, y'all setting it off up in here.
01:03:17 It's live, it's electric, it's us, man.
01:03:21 So job well done.
01:03:23 I appreciate that, man.
01:03:24 You know, I wanted to do this because every time I watch that clip of you and Kenan and
01:03:28 how he always used to say he used to be a Jabari, right?
01:03:30 Like, it's amazing, man.
01:03:32 Now you're sitting talking to a Jabari.
01:03:33 To an actual Jabari.
01:03:35 Yeah, you're talking to an actual Jabari.
01:03:37 How does it feel to talk to an actual Jabari?
01:03:38 I mean, I've envisioned Jabaris in my life.
01:03:41 Nah, man, it's an inside joke that Kenan and I have.
01:03:45 That's one of my best friends in life.
01:03:47 And we literally, because you know, that's like, that's a black name.
01:03:51 Yeah, it is.
01:03:52 You know, it's your name.
01:03:53 So like, everybody know a Jabari.
01:03:55 Yeah, when I write the name and I, you know, fill out your ethnicity, I'm like, come on,
01:03:59 y'all can figure that out.
01:04:00 Y'all can figure it out.
01:04:01 So what's 2024 in store, man?
01:04:03 2023 is over, right?
01:04:04 You know, I'm so excited about 2024, all the innovation and entrepreneurial efforts that
01:04:09 we're putting together in the space of just content, ownership, assets, acquisitions.
01:04:14 You know what I mean?
01:04:15 Like, I've had the opportunity throughout my career to kind of watch the game shift and
01:04:21 be able to adapt.
01:04:23 And now I'm in that space, man, of really building platforms to give others opportunities.
01:04:27 So, you know, we got a few new shows.
01:04:28 We got the Future Superstar show that just launched that really is about the next generation
01:04:34 of music artists.
01:04:35 We got a show doing a lot of stuff on the Amazon platform and building, you know, they
01:04:40 have so much going on from the space of commerce and content merging together.
01:04:45 So I'm on there daily.
01:04:46 I'm on Twitch.
01:04:48 I'm on Prime.
01:04:49 I'm on Freebie.
01:04:50 So we're doing stuff with them.
01:04:51 And then, of course, building this Wild 'N Out brand to kind of continue to sustain in
01:04:56 the space of, you know, content creators, comedy, and really just brand innovation.
01:05:01 What's the future of Wild 'N Out, man?
01:05:02 Because you just mentioned it was with MTV for a long time.
01:05:05 Do you continue on that path?
01:05:06 I think it's grown beyond it.
01:05:08 You know what I mean?
01:05:09 I love what Paramount is doing of how they, you know, kind of compartmentalized everything,
01:05:13 but still keeping everything under the Paramount umbrella.
01:05:16 So now it's not Wild 'N Out isn't just MTV, it isn't just BET, it isn't just VH1, it's
01:05:21 its own brand.
01:05:22 And you'll see that more and more.
01:05:24 It's Paramount's most number one digital brand out of all of their, you know, entities combined.
01:05:31 So I'm excited to just allow it to grow and continue to partner with them and allow it
01:05:36 to stand on its own because that's where it's going.
01:05:39 It's like we used to, you know, turn to a certain channel to watch something.
01:05:42 Now you just type it in.
01:05:43 And from that, you know, we've had so much traction and so much growth, especially in
01:05:48 the digital space.
01:05:48 So we live in there super strong.
01:05:51 Yeah.
01:05:51 And you're just coming off of our panel, man.
01:05:52 Thanks you again, talking about Africa and ways you can expand on that continent.
01:05:57 And I've been having so many conversations with people that live in Africa, businesses.
01:06:01 I know FinTech is one of the areas that they're looking at.
01:06:03 What are you looking at when it comes?
01:06:05 I know you want to expand Wild 'N Out over there, but is there any other areas?
01:06:08 Yeah, the diaspora and the talent there.
01:06:09 You know what I mean?
01:06:09 Obviously, music has already led the charge.
01:06:11 Absolutely.
01:06:11 You know, they're the number one music around the world right now.
01:06:15 And then I feel like that's the same way in the space of film and television.
01:06:19 There's so many stories that should be told about the continent.
01:06:24 Great historical stories, man.
01:06:26 Like I wanted to even talk more about that on the panel.
01:06:29 Like we want to hear the story of Matamuse.
01:06:31 We want to hear the story of Nefertiti.
01:06:33 We want to hear the story of...
01:06:34 Kila.
01:06:35 Yeah.
01:06:35 It's so many that, you know, if we dig deep, because I'm always one of the
01:06:42 pontificators when it comes to like, yo, we're much more than just, you know,
01:06:48 our post-traumatic slaves.
01:06:50 Absolutely.
01:06:50 You know what I mean?
01:06:51 The African-Americans here always believe our history starts with slavery.
01:06:55 When we come from great lineages of keen scientists, creators, you know, the
01:07:00 architects of our culture.
01:07:01 And I want to be able to help tell those stories.
01:07:03 Yeah.
01:07:04 2024, that's what the future is.
01:07:05 But let's flashback one minute to 2023, right?
01:07:09 Because you cannot talk about hip-hop culture without mentioning you in that, right?
01:07:13 I mean, you can't go and drumline was a piece of hip-hop culture, right?
01:07:17 You're a piece of hip-hop culture.
01:07:19 Did you like the way that hip-hop was celebrated on the 50th anniversary or could it have been better?
01:07:24 I mean, I always believe it could have been better just because I feel like I am a child
01:07:27 of hip-hop, as you put it.
01:07:28 So I want to see it on the biggest stages.
01:07:31 I think everybody who saluted it and celebrated it did a fantastic job.
01:07:35 I love the fact that, you know, everything from seeing the hip-hop museum go up in the
01:07:39 Bronx to all of the things that we got to see at the Grammys and certain, I believe
01:07:43 there's even another coming up literally this week, a celebration at the Grammys and
01:07:48 CBS are putting on.
01:07:49 But we got to keep going.
01:07:51 We got to go harder because it is our culture.
01:07:53 Yeah.
01:07:53 It's the number one export and everyone knows that hip-hop is taking over the world.
01:07:58 So, and it's still young.
01:08:00 It's 50.
01:08:00 But I want them to scream it louder from the mountaintops.
01:08:04 But every celebration has been dope and it's so dope to see our OGs get recognized.
01:08:09 Absolutely.
01:08:10 You know what I mean?
01:08:10 And bring it together with, you know, everybody who's moving and shaking in the culture right now.
01:08:16 I think Jay did it, you know, or Jay was celebrated in such an amazing way with the, you know,
01:08:21 the Brooklyn Museum and, you know.
01:08:23 Have you been?
01:08:24 I haven't.
01:08:24 I want to go.
01:08:24 I'm trying to get back to New York next week.
01:08:27 So I'm going to try to get out of here.
01:08:28 You got to, man, because I'm not going to be there forever.
01:08:29 I can't begin as an exhibit.
01:08:31 So I got to go myself, man.
01:08:32 Hey, listen, I get you out of here on this because you got a plane to catch.
01:08:34 Always ask people at the end because Jim Collins wrote a great book.
01:08:39 It's called Good to Great.
01:08:40 Right.
01:08:40 How do you transition from good to great?
01:08:43 You've been there, Nick.
01:08:44 You've climbed the ladder in entertainment.
01:08:46 Steve Harvey's one of your mentors, like, you know, done that.
01:08:49 How does one get from good to great in this society?
01:08:51 Perseverance.
01:08:52 You get from good to great by not stopping.
01:08:55 It's going to be many obstacles.
01:08:57 It's going to be many challenges, but those are only meant to sharpen you from good to great.
01:09:00 You start off as good.
01:09:01 We all got some goodness in us, but that perseverance, that,
01:09:05 that stick to it.
01:09:07 This is what allows people to become great.
01:09:09 You know what I mean?
01:09:10 Especially when you weather the storm and you see adversity.
01:09:13 That's that's where the greatness occurs.
01:09:15 Perseverance.
01:09:16 Yeah.
01:09:16 Appreciate it, man.
01:09:17 Nick Cannon, 2023, be okay, summit.
01:09:19 Got to have you back in future summits.
01:09:20 Come on, man.
01:09:21 Let's do it.
01:09:22 Absolutely.
01:09:22 And you're going to Africa and Botswana.
01:09:24 Let's go.
01:09:24 Yeah.
01:09:25 I'm here to make me part of the Forbes family.
01:09:27 You already are, man.
01:09:28 There is.
01:09:29 Appreciate the time, bro.
01:09:29 Thank you, man.
01:09:30 Katrell, thank you so much for being here.
01:09:32 Thank you for having me.
01:09:33 You have a long history of advocating for yourself.
01:09:36 Can you talk about how you came to do that within an industry where it can be really hard
01:09:41 to advocate for yourself?
01:09:43 I always felt that if it needed to start with me and if I believed in myself,
01:09:47 then others might too.
01:09:51 I never thought, "Oh, I'm not good enough."
01:09:53 I thought, "Let's see if I'm good enough."
01:09:55 I always used it as a sort of a challenge to myself.
01:09:59 And I always listened to that little voice inside of me that would say, "Yeah, you can
01:10:02 do this.
01:10:03 You got this."
01:10:04 Or, "Shit."
01:10:05 So you've got to just really listen to yourself and get the temperature of what you're trying
01:10:14 to achieve is even possible.
01:10:16 I had a very dear friend for years, and he was pursuing a career that just kept saying,
01:10:22 "No, no, no, no, no."
01:10:23 So instead of going through the front door, he went through the back door.
01:10:28 And he decided to work behind the camera and became a really, really well-known director.
01:10:35 So his dream changed.
01:10:39 He modified it, but he found a way to get there and probably find, ultimately, a job
01:10:44 that was equally as fulfilling.
01:10:47 I love stories like that because it shows a non-linear career path can be just as fulfilling.
01:10:52 As you look at how you advocate for yourself now versus earlier in your career, what has
01:10:57 changed?
01:10:57 How did you advocate for yourself then, and how do you do it now?
01:11:00 Well, I think I'm much more selective about what I do because I'm in a fortunate position
01:11:06 where I can pay my rent if I decide not to do something.
01:11:10 But I think that the difficult thing is to really register how things affect you and
01:11:21 take that into consideration.
01:11:23 Also, taking care of yourself, making sure that you're ready.
01:11:28 That's why small steps are so important because all those small steps are really a leap, not
01:11:34 just to achieving what you want, but also getting to know how you work under pressure,
01:11:41 how you work when there is no pressure.
01:11:44 I mean, it's really a way of getting to know more and more of who you are.
01:11:49 And when you understand more of who you are, you are much more equipped to understand how
01:11:56 you can get what you want.
01:11:57 I think being powerful is knowing what you want and experimenting with that to see if
01:12:03 that works for you.
01:12:05 Because the climate might not be right for you or this might not be the right job for
01:12:11 you, but ultimately, if you start asking those questions and listen, the answers are there.
01:12:16 It might not be the answer you want or you like, but it might be a happier life.
01:12:23 One of the things at this age for me that I'm so certain of is that I don't want to
01:12:28 be in a situation for even an hour where I'm not enjoying myself.
01:12:32 You first said that, I think, in 2019, and I think you broke the internet.
01:12:36 The comments went viral.
01:12:38 First part of my question is, were you surprised at the reaction?
01:12:41 Because I think those comments resonated with a lot of women.
01:12:45 I was, because for me, I remember saying it and thinking, "Yeah, that's me.
01:12:50 That's where I am now.
01:12:52 That's not where I was when I was 16 or 26 or 36, 46, or even 56.
01:12:56 But at 67, that's still where I am.
01:12:59 I want to make people happy.
01:13:00 I want to make people laugh.
01:13:03 But I also want to continue to do things that fulfill me, that I feel really strong about.
01:13:09 And saying no is important, but saying yes to the right things is important, too.
01:13:14 So that was my first question.
01:13:17 My second question related to this is, you said that wasn't necessarily how you felt
01:13:21 at 16 or earlier in your career.
01:13:23 Was there a specific moment, a lightning bolt realization that let that become your motto?
01:13:30 I think it came just late in life, that motto.
01:13:34 I think when I was younger, I was just following what other people were telling me I should do,
01:13:39 I should be, I should say.
01:13:40 And they would constantly say, "Oh, just be yourself."
01:13:43 But I kept thinking, "I don't know who I am yet."
01:13:46 It takes a lifetime to really understand more about yourself.
01:13:53 Other people can see it because they're outside of you.
01:13:57 But yes, you know yourself, but to really, really know and listen and really put what
01:14:03 makes you happy, make that a priority.
01:14:07 Most women don't do that.
01:14:10 They can't afford to do it.
01:14:11 They either can't afford or they get so much advice.
01:14:14 I've learned that a lot of men will say, "Oh, put yourself first or be selfish about your
01:14:18 time."
01:14:19 But then what they want you to be selfish about is the thing that helps them.
01:14:22 Exactly.
01:14:22 So if you have five people telling you--
01:14:23 Listen to this.
01:14:25 This, this, the thing that says, "I don't like this.
01:14:29 I don't like this guy.
01:14:31 This job's not for me."
01:14:32 I mean, that whole feeling that we were talking about with Katie is that coming into a room
01:14:39 and thinking, "Is this the right boss for me?"
01:14:41 Not, "Am I the client that needs to-- yeah, I'm good at my job.
01:14:46 You should hire me because I'm good at my job.
01:14:48 Yeah, but if you don't, I know I can get another job."
01:14:51 It's an empowering--
01:14:52 That confidence of listening to what's right for you.
01:14:56 And what happens is when you start to do that, it's addictive.
01:15:00 You start to get more and more sharpened to what turns you off in any given situation.
01:15:06 I was always better at that in my work than I was personally.
01:15:10 I think personally it's tougher because you yearn to be loved back.
01:15:15 Yes.
01:15:16 But in a job, you can be loved too.
01:15:20 And you need to listen to what that says.
01:15:24 Your warm, fuzzy, or whatever you want to call it.
01:15:26 You need to listen to it and really give it space because that's who you are.
01:15:32 That's protecting you.
01:15:34 That's got your back.
01:15:35 That voice has been there since you were born and will be there until you die.
01:15:39 And you have to do the work.
01:15:42 When I was younger, I was doing these jobs that all these agents and producers said I should do.
01:15:47 I would never have done them except for that kind of pressure of
01:15:51 this is what happens now in your career.
01:15:53 That isn't to say you shouldn't say yes to jobs that are challenging and scary.
01:15:58 Yeah, that's a good reason.
01:15:59 I haven't done it before.
01:16:00 But that voice is where you want to be.
01:16:05 You want to be in tune with it.
01:16:07 You mentioned your age.
01:16:09 And we're not going to mention specific projects due to the strikes.
01:16:13 But one of your characters, I'll keep it broad, landed on a 50 over 50 list.
01:16:18 And your character was not terribly happy to be on this list.
01:16:22 There was some grumbling.
01:16:23 And we have the Forbes and Know Your Value 50 over 50.
01:16:27 And we see it as a positive thing because it's a list of women who are stepping into their power.
01:16:31 I want to ask, do you Kim, how do you feel about your age?
01:16:35 Is it an advantage or disadvantage?
01:16:37 Well, I'm still waiting to be called to the 50 over 50.
01:16:40 Better hurry up.
01:16:43 Well, we have the next one coming up.
01:16:44 There you go.
01:16:45 Rectify this.
01:16:47 Consider this a pre-interview.
01:16:49 Okay.
01:16:49 But I asked women on the list, is your age an advantage or disadvantage?
01:16:54 And some people say advantage.
01:16:56 Some people identify the disadvantage.
01:16:58 For me, personally and professionally, it's an advantage.
01:17:01 I've had a really long, wonderful career.
01:17:06 I'm very grateful.
01:17:09 But when I'm not in the public eye, I love that life too.
01:17:13 They feed into each other because I think, again, talking about that inner voice,
01:17:17 we're together for Kim's happiness.
01:17:22 We're working together.
01:17:24 I'm listening.
01:17:25 They're listening.
01:17:26 So if you can get that co-pilot to take you to the destination that you want to go,
01:17:32 it's not seamless.
01:17:35 Nothing's seamless.
01:17:36 It's the world.
01:17:36 We're humans.
01:17:37 It's crazy.
01:17:38 But it'll be a less bumpy ride because along the way, it'll be fun.
01:17:44 It'll be an adventure.
01:17:45 But you've got to take care of yourself.
01:17:48 You seem to be having fun.
01:17:50 What's next for you?
01:17:51 What's next on the fun list?
01:17:52 I can't talk.
01:17:54 Oh, you can't talk about it.
01:17:55 Well, speaking of the strikes, I do want to ask,
01:17:57 what will it take for there to be resolution and what do you want to see?
01:18:01 I think there's got to be give and take.
01:18:04 And this has been coming for a very long time.
01:18:08 And the world has changed since the last contract.
01:18:11 And we need to take that into account and we need to address it.
01:18:15 There's a whole audience out there waiting to be entertained.
01:18:18 Actors and writers, that's what we do.
01:18:20 That's what we love to do.
01:18:21 So let's sit down and hash it out.
01:18:24 There's more than enough rewards for everyone.
01:18:27 Well, I look forward to sitting down with you when you're able to talk a little more
01:18:31 about those specifics.
01:18:32 But in the meantime, thank you so much for taking the time.
01:18:34 Thank you.
01:18:35 Thank you for having me.
01:18:36 I'm Rose Marie Miller here with Ryan Leslie, who will talk all about the music industry
01:18:41 and how to manage our money.
01:18:44 Thank you so much for joining me today, Ryan.
01:18:46 Thanks for having me.
01:18:47 Absolutely.
01:18:48 So we are all trying to make some money, save some money, make our money, make some money.
01:18:52 And you have a wealth plan, which is what a financial literacy club.
01:18:58 Yes.
01:18:58 What gave you the idea to create?
01:18:59 It's a club.
01:19:01 I feel as though really when we grow up, we are taught almost culturally that finances
01:19:08 are-- and there's actually a moniker for it, personal finance.
01:19:11 And so we are caught in between, should we share what's happening with our finances?
01:19:18 Should we keep it a secret?
01:19:19 I know for me growing up, it was, hey, you don't talk about how much you make.
01:19:23 You don't talk about how much you have invested, how much you have saved.
01:19:27 What I found, though, is that when you can make the journey, a collective journey, the
01:19:32 pathway to, let's call it, understanding of what's actually happening, the ability to
01:19:38 have a sounding board where you have a community of folks that are concerned and have some
01:19:44 care and consideration for your financial well-being, this can really make a massive
01:19:49 difference in the achievement of, let's call it, exponential compounding.
01:19:55 So that's really what the premise of Wealthplant was all about, is the fact that when I decided
01:20:01 I wanted to learn finances, I wanted to not rent a Bruce Lee movie and teach myself karate.
01:20:08 I wanted to learn directly from someone who actually did it the right way.
01:20:13 And so Wealthplant is exactly that.
01:20:17 It allows me to, based on what I've been able to achieve, now be able to give back in a
01:20:24 way that allows me to be a one-on-one mentor and hopefully make an impact that's not just
01:20:30 going to be for the person I'm mentoring, but for a family, for a generation as well.
01:20:35 - So speaking of generations, how can someone who, you know, you got no generational wealth,
01:20:40 how can they get to that point?
01:20:42 - Yeah, to get to generational wealth, so much has been said about it, right?
01:20:48 It's such a simple concept.
01:20:52 It's the eighth wonder of the world, it is compounding.
01:20:55 And you can start, it's really just about starting.
01:20:59 So listen, when you think about compounding, you think about it over time, the wealthiest
01:21:06 investors, or maybe the most well-known wealthiest investors, the ones that are on the Forbes
01:21:12 list, the ones that have done it in the financial markets, those investors are those who started
01:21:18 small and just consistently compounded over time.
01:21:22 Now, I know that there are so many, let's call it apprehensions when it comes to the
01:21:27 stock market.
01:21:27 It can be a very sort of, it could be a very sort of opaque, scary place to be, right?
01:21:35 And when we look at statistics, when we're able to actually remove the human tendencies
01:21:43 that will make an investor lose money, when we're able to remove those human tendencies
01:21:48 from our decision-making, we're actually able to have smooth sailing when it comes
01:21:53 to compounding.
01:21:54 So what does that mean?
01:21:55 That means that we should be able to drive our decision-making with data and statistics.
01:22:01 The best data around a company that you want to own is just the fundamental data of how
01:22:07 the business is actually performing.
01:22:09 And the beauty of the public markets in the United States of America is that every three
01:22:15 months, you can get a very, very clear earnings report from every single company that's publicly
01:22:21 traded.
01:22:21 And if you want to actually, let's call it, reduce your risk and volatility, you can just
01:22:31 invest in an index.
01:22:33 And the S&P 500, we hear it talked about all the time.
01:22:37 But the reason we hear about it all the time is because when you look at the historical,
01:22:42 statistical data of being invested in the S&P, a time horizon of 20 years or more means
01:22:50 that you have a 0% chance of loss.
01:22:52 So if you can take losses out of investing in the stock market, how much more at ease
01:22:59 can we be when taking our first steps?
01:23:02 And so when we think about generational wealth, and that's the question you're asking, it's
01:23:07 about getting started as early as possible.
01:23:09 And that means that even if you're starting later, let's say you're starting in 30s, 40s,
01:23:14 50s, you know someone in your family, could be a son, daughter, niece or nephew, that
01:23:20 once you've acquired this knowledge, each one teach one.
01:23:25 And it's the ability to actually show how your money is working for you to those who
01:23:31 are coming up after you.
01:23:33 And once they can, let's call it develop, but not just develop, but master a sense of
01:23:39 how to actually navigate the financial markets, you find that starting earlier delivers exponential
01:23:47 results over time when it comes to compounding.
01:23:49 And what's compounding?
01:23:50 It's just incremental gains, 100,000 or even 10,000 or 1,000 that grows by 10%.
01:23:58 That percentage is equal for everyone across the board.
01:24:02 So if you stay invested for a year, you've got $1,000 and you get a 10% return, you're
01:24:08 going to make $100 on that 1,000.
01:24:10 Learning, yeah, yeah, go ahead.
01:24:13 What would you tell someone who, I don't know, they're 70 years old, they're doing their
01:24:18 thing at all that time.
01:24:19 Yes.
01:24:19 What would you tell that person?
01:24:21 So you're saying someone who's starting much, much later.
01:24:24 Much later.
01:24:25 Right.
01:24:25 Yeah.
01:24:26 Really, there really is no difference to the strategy, right?
01:24:31 Because obviously starting at 70 is much later than let's say someone learning at 24 or 25,
01:24:38 right?
01:24:39 The vehicles into which you can invest remain the same.
01:24:44 So the S&P 500 has been around for 70 years.
01:24:47 You have to get started.
01:24:48 They say the best time to start investing was 20 years ago.
01:24:52 The next best time is today.
01:24:54 Yeah.
01:24:55 Okay, so eliminating losses.
01:24:57 If there's a way to do that, why isn't everybody doing it?
01:25:00 I would say, you know, amongst the folks that are actually a part of my Wealth Plan Club,
01:25:08 really the reasons that I hear for folks who haven't done it is because they were never
01:25:15 introduced to this concept.
01:25:17 And even though the concepts are very, very simple, they require no more than middle school
01:25:21 math to understand.
01:25:23 If we look at our educational journey from the time we're in middle school to when we
01:25:27 get to high school and when we get to college, most of our education and training is really
01:25:32 focused on making us dependent on the capitalist system in which we live.
01:25:38 Living paycheck to paycheck, deciding that we want to go out and actually, you know,
01:25:43 go take on a large amount of debt, which is collateralized by a home, the American dream.
01:25:48 The difference, though, is when you look at stories of folks that have really made
01:25:53 it, and I'm talking about multi-billionaire status, they got started very early and they
01:25:59 got started in a different way.
01:26:01 And what they did was actual real ownership without having to leverage debt to acquire
01:26:10 the ownership.
01:26:10 What does that mean?
01:26:11 If you've got $100,000, you can actually put $100,000 down on, let's say, a $400,000 house,
01:26:17 right?
01:26:18 You're actually taking on $300,000 in debt.
01:26:22 On the flip side, if you have $100,000 and you invest it, let's say, in Apple, this isn't
01:26:27 financial advice, but if you were to invest that $100,000 in Apple, the difference there
01:26:32 is based on the actual brokerage system that we have in the United States, not only do
01:26:38 you actually own outright the piece of the business that you bought when you spent $100,000
01:26:45 on Apple, the brokerage system will actually allow you to be your own bank, which means
01:26:50 that if you've got $100,000 in Apple, because it's been such a well-performing company,
01:26:57 the brokerage will actually allow you to borrow against that asset, and it's collateralized
01:27:05 by the asset.
01:27:06 So in some cases, I've worked with folks who have got $100,000 in Apple, but they might
01:27:11 need $70,000 to start a business.
01:27:13 Well, they're able to actually leverage $50,000 of that $100,000, start the business, and
01:27:18 pay themselves back.
01:27:20 All the while, they never had to sell any of their Apple stock.
01:27:24 So while they spent a year, two years, three years developing that business, growing that
01:27:28 $50,000 investment, hopefully into a quarter million, Apple stock that they own for that
01:27:33 $100,000 is working in the background over those three years as well.
01:27:37 And if we look at just what's happened this year in Apple stock, it has actually achieved
01:27:42 new all-time highs, and that is really the byproduct of excellent leadership, excellent
01:27:48 product, excellent services.
01:27:50 You find that those businesses, productive assets that we own, they are going to outperform
01:27:55 over time.
01:27:56 So in your opinion, what's one thing that sets a good investor from a great investor
01:28:03 apart?
01:28:03 Yeah, so a good investor from a great investor.
01:28:06 I know there's so much that's been written about this, but I would say that it's really
01:28:12 just about automating and removing emotion from your investment decisions.
01:28:19 I would say that really there are three human tendencies that I come across in working with
01:28:26 the folks that come to join our Wealth Plan Club, and that's fear, greed, and ego.
01:28:32 All right?
01:28:33 So fear, very, very simple.
01:28:35 There's two sides of the coin.
01:28:37 Fear of missing out.
01:28:38 Oh, my goodness, I see, and let's go back to Apple stock.
01:28:41 It's at all-time highs.
01:28:42 Oh, my gosh, I need to buy, buy, buy, buy, buy right now.
01:28:44 And there is, let's call it a disconnect about how the stock market works.
01:28:51 When a company is running up, up, up, up, up, it doesn't mean that it's always just
01:28:56 going to be a straight line up.
01:28:57 There will be times where investors may take some profits off of the table.
01:29:02 So fear of missing out may cause an investor to overpay for an investment, right, because
01:29:08 they're chasing, right, a concept or an idea, but also fear of losing money.
01:29:12 So maybe because of their fear of missing out, they might buy a company at 300 or 400
01:29:19 a share, and that company might come all the way down to 250 or 225, and that fear of losing
01:29:24 money will cause them to sell as opposed to actually allowing the company the time to
01:29:30 actually grow and develop as a great investment.
01:29:32 So fear, greed, which kind of drives the American capitalist system in general, and so our
01:29:39 desire to retire earlier, to make more money faster, that sort of feeds into this frenzy
01:29:47 in some cases that we may find in the markets, and then also ego.
01:29:50 There are a number of folks who may all of a sudden say, well, I've watched all the
01:29:54 YouTube videos.
01:29:55 I've looked at all of the interviews that Rosemary's ever done.
01:29:58 I've read all the books, and I know, I just know where the market is going to go.
01:30:03 And as Warren Buffett has said so aptly, the markets can remain irrational longer than
01:30:09 most investors, or really any investor, can remain solvent.
01:30:13 So even if you do actually know and you feel like you know and you're like, there's no
01:30:17 way that this company can keep going down and down and down and down, I'm just going
01:30:22 to keep buying, I'm just going to keep holding on, what Warren is really saying is that the
01:30:26 markets can remain irrational longer than you can continue to buy into that investment.
01:30:32 So really, for investors that are just getting started, my recommendation, and once again,
01:30:39 not financial advice, but what I've seen work very, very well over decades and decades is
01:30:46 just creating an automated way out of every paycheck or any time you get paid to actually
01:30:51 own as much of the American financial ecosystem as possible.
01:30:56 And if you don't have an idea of what exact companies to pick, just buy a basket of 500
01:31:02 great companies like the S&P, or buy a basket of the top 100 technology companies.
01:31:08 If you feel like, hey, technology is transforming the way that we live and interact, we can
01:31:12 buy the NASDAQ 100.
01:31:14 It's not very, very expensive, and you can do so by just automating it.
01:31:19 The beauty of index funds is that they actually are, they're set up in such a way that you
01:31:27 don't have to do the buying and selling.
01:31:29 So when a company is no longer worthy of being in the S&P, the index will automatically rebalance,
01:31:36 it will allow a different company to come in, so that you're always really in the best
01:31:42 investments, the best vehicles for your capital.
01:31:46 So I'm curious, what are your thoughts on cryptocurrency?
01:31:50 My thoughts on cryptocurrency, well, I've had an incredible journey with crypto.
01:31:55 If you check my Twitter all the way back, I'll say 2013, I said, "Pay me in Bitcoin."
01:32:00 All the way back, we're talking 10 years ago now.
01:32:03 And there was a time where all of my royalties, all of my revenue, I was making sure that
01:32:13 people were actually paying me in Bitcoin all the way back then.
01:32:16 So when I was earning the bulk of my revenue in Bitcoin, it was really trading at about
01:32:21 $125 a coin.
01:32:23 Fast forward to now, it's about $30,000 a coin as of today.
01:32:28 And so I've had an incredible journey there, but I've mostly stayed invested in the flagship
01:32:33 cryptocurrency, which is Bitcoin.
01:32:35 So do you ever suggest cryptocurrency to any of your clients?
01:32:38 Well, I actually never suggest an investment.
01:32:41 What I mostly do is just teach them about all of the different vehicles.
01:32:45 And we're talking about even complex derivatives in some cases, how to buy and sell promises
01:32:51 in the stock market to earn more on your capital.
01:32:55 I just want to make sure that I educate and really just provide a framework, let's call
01:33:02 it a framework through which they can view their investing journey.
01:33:06 So you mentioned you wanted to be paid in Bitcoin for your royalties.
01:33:10 So I'm not sure if you saw, but Snoop Dogg recently had a big issue with the streaming
01:33:15 industry for musicians.
01:33:19 Could you talk about that?
01:33:20 I want to know how are artists getting paid with streaming?
01:33:25 Yeah, I mean, it's pretty simple.
01:33:28 You can really just do a Google search and say, "How much do I get per stream?"
01:33:32 And it's going to tell you it's about maybe 0.005 cents, if we want to call it.
01:33:41 So like a half a penny or so on every single stream.
01:33:46 So when you think about how streaming is actually working, where you can release a song and
01:33:51 get millions and millions of streams, you just multiply those millions of streams by
01:33:55 that percentage of a penny that you get for every stream.
01:33:59 Now, the bottom line is that the music industry has needed to evolve.
01:34:04 We don't have physical CDs.
01:34:07 Maybe if you're a collector, you still have some physical vinyl.
01:34:10 But at the end of the day, really, we want to have the entire library of all recorded
01:34:15 music right in our pocket on our mobile device.
01:34:19 And so companies like Spotify, and you can buy Spotify, you can own Spotify if you believe
01:34:25 in that.
01:34:26 Companies like Apple Music, they provide those platforms, Jay-Z's title, provide those platforms
01:34:31 so that you actually can make your playlist.
01:34:34 If you have a running playlist, you have a playlist for romance, you have a playlist
01:34:39 for a wedding, a party, you have the ability to do it.
01:34:42 I want to know, is streaming better or worse than going to a record label for artists?
01:34:48 Well, record companies, they actually are streaming their artists as well, right?
01:34:53 So the bottom line is that whether you're signed to a major or you're releasing independently,
01:34:59 you have the same opportunity to distribute your music globally through the streaming
01:35:05 platforms.
01:35:06 And there are a number of aggregators.
01:35:07 One of my favorites is Steve Stout's United Masters.
01:35:11 You don't have to be signed to a major label.
01:35:13 The major label is really to have some infrastructure and to have some capital behind your release.
01:35:18 But if you've got your own infrastructure and capital, you can literally press two buttons,
01:35:22 go to an aggregator, go to a distributor, and literally within one week, your music
01:35:27 is available globally.
01:35:29 Are you at all afraid of AI's disruption in the music industry?
01:35:35 It has its pros, but it definitely has its cons.
01:35:39 Is it going to put some people out of business?
01:35:41 I believe that technology is already sort of transforming really every single aspect
01:35:47 of our lives.
01:35:48 And I always have approached technology from a place of embracing the technology, understanding
01:35:55 the technology, and understanding the ways that human intelligence is differentiated
01:36:01 from artificial intelligence.
01:36:03 In so doing, obviously, we're the ones that came up with AI.
01:36:07 In so doing, we can understand how we can remain valuable as the landscape changes.
01:36:14 When you look at the headlines, I think I've seen, you know, in some of the Forbes headlines
01:36:17 recently that if you can be a great prompter for chat GPT, you can be earning six, seven
01:36:24 figures per year.
01:36:25 And so it is about understanding where the opportunity is.
01:36:29 And that opportunity is really in embracing the technology, understanding the technology,
01:36:35 mastering the technology, so that you can actually benefit from it.
01:36:38 And I believe that that goes for any industry that may, you know, want to put new and emerging
01:36:44 technology at arm's length.
01:36:46 What I found is that great companies that lean into research and development, they find
01:36:52 that they're able to accelerate their place in the future of what our economy and what
01:36:58 our world is going to look like.
01:37:00 So that sounds like skills-based learning.
01:37:02 That's a skill, learning how to do a prompt.
01:37:05 And I know you're a Harvard man, and you're all about education, but what do you think
01:37:09 the value of a college degree will be in the near future?
01:37:13 For me, when I think about my time at Harvard, man, some of the buddies that I have there,
01:37:18 my buddy Taj Clayton, my boy Mark Price, my brothers Diallo and Bashir, you know, folks
01:37:24 that I met during Harvard, my other buddy Lex, these are all folks or people that I
01:37:29 met through colleagues at Harvard.
01:37:32 One of my longtime partners, Rasheed Richmond, his sister was at school with me, his sister
01:37:37 Afra, I believe that being in that ecosystem with high-performance critical thinkers is
01:37:44 the true value of that college experience.
01:37:47 So anyone that you ask, whether they've gone to Cornell or whether they've gone to USC,
01:37:51 whether they've gone like my sister, Cal Berkeley, there are relationships that are built there
01:37:56 in the formative years of our lives where you find potential business partners, potential
01:38:02 collaborators, lifetime and lifelong friends.
01:38:05 And I believe that that's really sort of a priceless exchange for the tuition that we
01:38:10 pay.
01:38:11 Now, the other reason why I'm never really worried about tuition is because when you
01:38:16 can master what we were talking about at the beginning of this conversation, you can take
01:38:20 a very small amount of capital and over time compound that capital to cover whatever expenses
01:38:27 you may have accrued in student loan debt, et cetera.
01:38:31 And I think a lot of what I've found is people necessarily either A, just don't want to learn
01:38:39 it, B, they have maybe somebody in their family lost some money in the stock market, says,
01:38:43 "I don't want to touch that at all."
01:38:46 But what we find is that being uninvested is actually losing you money, right?
01:38:52 Because all of the headlines, at least the current headlines, are very, very focused
01:38:56 around inflation.
01:38:58 The cost of goods and services are going higher.
01:39:00 So that means that a dollar today is actually really retains less purchasing power.
01:39:07 So you've got to find some way to crack the whip on that money and make it do some somersault
01:39:11 and make it work for you.
01:39:13 Otherwise, what you'll find is the same $10 that you wanted to spend on a quick run to
01:39:18 one of the bodegas uptown, that $10 is buying you less and less and less.
01:39:23 So that means that you need to make sure that whether it's with our Wealth Plan Club or
01:39:29 just on your own or with someone that you trust, you have to figure out how to actually
01:39:34 make the money that you earn and work so hard for, you have to figure out a way to actually
01:39:39 make that money work for you.
01:39:40 And that's what we do at Wealth Plan.
01:39:42 So other than Wealth Plan, what's next for Ryan Leslie?
01:39:46 Listen, this I think for me has really become a, I think it will be a part of my legacy,
01:39:53 what I'm doing at Wealth Plan.
01:39:58 It's tremendously rewarding to unlock a financial future that someone may have almost completely
01:40:07 overlooked.
01:40:09 And the way that we work at Wealth Plan is it's very individualized and tailored.
01:40:14 So it's one-on-one and it's for folks that actually, like me, when I first was seeking
01:40:19 out a mentor, they want that personalized attention.
01:40:22 They understand it's called personal finance for a reason and they want to actually have
01:40:26 someone to show them the way in a real way, one-on-one, step-by-step, hand-in-hand.
01:40:32 So that's what I've been doing.
01:40:34 I'm not a financial advisor.
01:40:35 I'm not a stockbroker.
01:40:37 All I can do is show folks what has made a multi-million dollar difference in the returns
01:40:42 in my portfolio.
01:40:43 And because of those returns, it gives me the latitude, it gives me the opportunity
01:40:48 outside of obviously running my venture-backed company, SuperPhone, which is about technology.
01:40:54 We can talk about that a little bit more.
01:40:57 Outside of doing that, it provides a very, very rewarding aspect to my life because what's
01:41:03 the use of being wealthy on your own?
01:41:05 You want to have folks around you who want, let's say we can turn 100 people into millionaires.
01:41:11 Well, that's $100 million of financial power that we can put behind the initiatives, the
01:41:19 change that we want to see in the world.
01:41:20 So I believe for me, this is a piece of everything I'll be doing for the rest of my life is teaching
01:41:29 in this way.
01:41:31 But on the flip side, I've always sort of had this concept of being of service.
01:41:36 So when I was in the music business, the first jobs that I had, even though I wanted to be
01:41:41 in front of the cameras, was to actually be behind the scenes as the producer.
01:41:45 And so for me, it was about providing the highest level of service.
01:41:49 I needed three song ideas and give them nine.
01:41:52 And then once I was able to get in front of the cameras and was starting the tour, I would
01:41:57 listen to feedback from audiences, especially when I was overseas.
01:42:00 And they say, "Well, artists will come from overseas and they'll get on stage and they'll
01:42:05 do a backing track and they'll be out of here in 30 minutes."
01:42:07 Like, it's God's gift to mankind that they got on a plane to come over and perform for
01:42:13 us.
01:42:14 And so for me, in that spirit of service, I spent the extra money to bring the band
01:42:18 out and we would play two hour, three hour, in some cases, marathon, six hour sets.
01:42:24 And so people could understand Ryan's about delivering a higher level of service.
01:42:29 And so I started to get a lot of folks that would say, "Hey, Ryan, I want to make it in
01:42:32 the music business."
01:42:33 And the music business is really sort of tied to, let's say, just a little bit of serendipity.
01:42:39 You're not able to just say, "If I make a song and I put this much money behind it,
01:42:44 it's going to go."
01:42:45 If that was the case, everybody would have a hit.
01:42:47 So the way that I can give back in a way that is objectively valuable is really twofold.
01:42:53 Number one, success really happens at the speed of communication.
01:42:57 So what we do at SuperPhone is we put a layer of technology on text messaging and a layer
01:43:06 of technology over our phones, which allows me, currently I'm on text with more than 130,000
01:43:12 people.
01:43:13 I've had those conversations, but it's not just about the text.
01:43:16 It's also about the ability to layer that on a phone system and to do it personally.
01:43:21 We've all heard about call centers.
01:43:23 You call up Delta Airlines or you call up somewhere, there's call centers and they're
01:43:26 redirecting your call somewhere, or you're talking to a robot.
01:43:30 My belief and the belief that we have at SuperPhone and the reason why we have a patent on some
01:43:36 of the technology that we're building for automated digital conversation management
01:43:41 is because my belief is that when we can unlock ... Like if I was to ask you right now, "How
01:43:46 many contacts do you have in your phone?"
01:43:48 You might not know offhand, but if I gave you your phone and you scrolled all the way
01:43:52 to the bottom and you said, "Oh, well I've got 300 contacts, 500 contacts, 750, 1,000
01:43:58 contacts," the reality is you're likely only engaging with maybe 3% of those contacts,
01:44:04 because we like to keep our circle small.
01:44:06 So what I'm doing at SuperPhone is my way of being of service, not subjectively, because
01:44:12 if someone doesn't like my music, then I can't really serve them.
01:44:15 Being of service.
01:44:16 Go ahead.
01:44:17 Yes.
01:44:18 That's what's next.
01:44:19 That's what you're going to continue doing.
01:44:20 That's what drives what I'm doing.
01:44:21 Absolutely.
01:44:22 Thank you so much for joining me today, Ryan.
01:44:23 Thanks, Rosemary.
01:44:24 Appreciate you.
01:44:25 Absolutely.
01:44:26 I'm Diane Brady.
01:44:27 I am here with Will.i.am, the Renaissance man, musician, producer.
01:44:33 Will, I want to talk about the formula, which just dropped, and of course you had this terrific
01:44:39 orchestral version yesterday at the Formula One in Miami.
01:44:45 You pitched them on this program.
01:44:47 Let's just start with that.
01:44:49 Talk about this Global Artist in Residence program you pitched, and thanks for joining
01:44:53 us.
01:44:54 Thanks for having me.
01:44:57 I've been playing the F1 circuit since the first race in Singapore back in 2008.
01:45:05 That was the first time I played the F1 circuit, and I really, truly fell in love with the
01:45:12 sport.
01:45:15 I met Lewis back in 2007, and that was like ... At the time, I didn't understand truly
01:45:25 the depth of Formula One on the engineering side, and just how the athlete, the driver,
01:45:33 and the engineers worked so closely together competing.
01:45:39 I played pole position on the video game in the '80s and the '90s, but falling in love
01:45:47 with the sport, all the principles that make the sport happen, happened post 2008, '09.
01:45:57 Playing all of these shows, flying to Azerbaijan, flying to Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi,
01:46:09 Dubai, Mexico, Austin, last year in Miami, I realized that there's two things happening
01:46:20 in the Formula One realm.
01:46:22 There's the race, obviously, and then there's the concerts that happen that rarely, probably
01:46:27 never get broadcast around the world.
01:46:31 There's a local celebration.
01:46:34 Then you have the third thing, which is the parties after the race.
01:46:41 All this activity, I wanted to connect a through line, like an album, a song, video, celebrating
01:46:49 the sport, celebrating the engineers, celebrating the drivers.
01:46:53 That's the formula, the first installment for a year-long program.
01:46:58 Now, this program, is it going to be you in collaboration with other artists?
01:47:03 I know the formula is with Lil Wayne.
01:47:05 You're essentially, in addition to being the musical center here, you're also curating.
01:47:11 Are you not other artists?
01:47:13 Yeah.
01:47:14 I have some special guests that are going to come throughout the year.
01:47:19 I don't want to reveal them, because I don't want to lose the fizzle and punch when we
01:47:25 reveal each artist as the artists come through.
01:47:29 We have Lil Wayne kicking it off.
01:47:31 I went to Prague to do the orchestral version.
01:47:36 For every song, there's about three to four orchestral versions of each record.
01:47:42 I'm going to start releasing the orchestral versions of the formula the next coming weeks.
01:47:49 That's going to end off the formula on the next song that will come out top of July with
01:47:57 an amazing artist that we have featured on it.
01:48:01 That will take us all the way to the end of the year.
01:48:04 These releases, songs, videos, art, merchandise.
01:48:09 It's really, really exciting.
01:48:10 I pitched this concept to Stefano at Harvard.
01:48:13 At Harvard?
01:48:15 Why Harvard?
01:48:16 We played Singapore.
01:48:19 Then I went to Harvard Business School.
01:48:21 I attend Harvard Business School.
01:48:24 Harvard Business School gives you three days off.
01:48:26 You can take three days off for your businesses.
01:48:29 I had a meeting in Mexico with Stefano, the CEO of F1.
01:48:34 He and I were on a track.
01:48:36 We did this track parade.
01:48:42 I had this vision when I was on the track of this artist in residency concept.
01:48:49 We planned to meet up at Harvard because he was speaking at Harvard while I was attending
01:48:53 as a student last year.
01:48:55 This is the executive MBA program or what were you doing at Harvard?
01:49:00 I'm a part of the OPM, the Owner's President's Management program at Harvard Business School.
01:49:08 I went back last year.
01:49:09 I was like, "You know what?
01:49:10 I've accomplished a lot in music.
01:49:12 I'm starting my new company, FYI.AI.
01:49:17 I want to go back to college.
01:49:19 I want to go to business school.
01:49:20 I want to network with other business owners.
01:49:23 I'm a founder of the company.
01:49:25 Put the company together, funded it, found the team, collaborated with my co-founder,
01:49:32 CTO, Sunil.
01:49:33 I want to learn more.
01:49:34 I want to network.
01:49:35 I went there.
01:49:38 I graduate in 2024.
01:49:40 While I was there last year, Stefano was speaking.
01:49:43 I was like, "Oh, let me ... I just met with Stefano in Mexico.
01:49:47 Let me go and pitch him this idea after his class."
01:49:52 Here we are.
01:49:53 He loved the vision, gave me the green light to make it happen.
01:49:57 It's a great collaboration, a great partnership.
01:49:59 Stefano's an amazing CEO.
01:50:03 I love the growth of F1 since he's been the F1 there.
01:50:07 I mean, the CEO at F1.
01:50:09 It's interesting because you've got ... I know you're going to be touring with the Black
01:50:12 Eyed Peas again.
01:50:14 This is your first solo album, I believe, in a decade.
01:50:16 Is that right?
01:50:17 The one that will come out in the fall?
01:50:18 Yeah.
01:50:19 Yes.
01:50:20 Now you've got FYI.AI.
01:50:23 When you think about the portfolio of Will.i.am, what's the balance that you want to achieve?
01:50:32 You also still are very much a technologist as well.
01:50:36 So the balance ... I don't have to make music like I used to make music for business anymore.
01:50:47 I don't know if I want to make music for business like I used to in the past.
01:50:53 I'll still make music for therapy, letting out joys, letting out my excitement and concerns
01:51:03 about the world.
01:51:04 But as far as writing songs to compete from a business aspect, I did that the majority
01:51:10 of all my 20s and 30s.
01:51:15 We did a really good job doing that.
01:51:16 Black Eyed Peas is a family.
01:51:17 We're always making music as a friendship and bond.
01:51:20 But as far as what I want to do the rest of my life in business, it's FYI.
01:51:27 It's solving problems with technology and putting teams together because that work is
01:51:34 synonymous with the work that I do philanthropically.
01:51:38 Telling kids, teaching kids, encouraging kids in inner cities that reflect the ones that
01:51:43 I come from to go down the path of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics.
01:51:48 Apply yourself with these skill sets and solve tomorrow's problems.
01:51:52 And if I'm not doing that, then that's kind of hypocritical.
01:51:55 If I'm off doing things that don't reflect that, then I have to practice what I preach.
01:52:02 And I really truly believe that that is the path that we inner city kids should aim ourselves
01:52:09 to do.
01:52:10 And that is to once and for all be the ones that solve our own problems with today's amazing
01:52:16 tools and technology.
01:52:18 Talk a little bit about FYI.
01:52:20 I think of it as sort of web three.
01:52:24 What's the vision there and how is going to Harvard, does that help to hone the vision?
01:52:32 Going to Harvard, you can never learn enough.
01:52:37 And so it's a humbling experience after having amazing success, ginormous success in music.
01:52:45 You can't assume just because you had success in one realm that you're going to have success
01:52:50 in another realm just because you were successful.
01:52:54 That's an arrogant approach.
01:52:56 So going to Harvard is like, one, I never thought in my life growing up that I would
01:53:04 be able to go to Harvard.
01:53:07 But now I'm there and achieving something that I never thought was possible when I was
01:53:11 in junior high school and high school.
01:53:14 And I'm going there to learn business after I had success in another business.
01:53:20 That's a humbling experience.
01:53:23 And the professors are giving me the information, giving me perspective that I'm going to need.
01:53:28 Not now, but eventually.
01:53:33 And the students, my classmates, hearing from them their business hurdles and the things
01:53:37 that they had to overcome.
01:53:39 I have amazing classmates that have awesome companies.
01:53:45 And as I'm trying to start my company, FYI, to solve a problem that I see in music and
01:53:51 all creatives, there has never been a communication platform made for creatives to run their business.
01:53:59 We work off of WhatsApp.
01:54:01 We work off of five tools just to do work.
01:54:04 We need a Dropbox, a WeTransfer, a messenger, email, calendar, and sometimes Zoom just to
01:54:11 get work done.
01:54:12 That means your conversations are happening in the comment section in a Dropbox file,
01:54:17 or they're happening on email, but sometimes they're happening where you need to send a
01:54:21 large file on WeTransfer on email, but then they're happening on text.
01:54:27 Your workflow is all over the place.
01:54:29 Your team communications is all over the place.
01:54:32 Your IP is compromised.
01:54:36 Your copyrights, your intellectual property is all compromised when your stuff is spread
01:54:39 out all over the place.
01:54:41 We wanted to have a central tool with generative AI baked in the core of it so you could focus
01:54:48 your ideas with you and your team and supercharge your creativity and strategy with artificial
01:54:55 intelligence.
01:54:56 That's the whole vision of FYI.AI.
01:54:59 The name of the company is what the product does, Focus Your Ideas With AI, FYI.AI.
01:55:06 You know, it's interesting when you think about the, let's get back to the Formula One.
01:55:12 Is part of what attracts you to that, excuse me, the technology of it, or is it just the
01:55:16 racing?
01:55:17 I mean, because I think of the work you've done with Dean Kamen, a lot about students
01:55:21 and getting them basically entranced with technology and frankly making it as sexy as
01:55:26 music.
01:55:27 Yeah, so if you were to take all the engineers that are in the pit and all the work that's
01:55:38 gone into making that car not only beautiful, but aerodynamic and, you know, all the strategy
01:55:47 and configuration to have the weight distribution in a way to where it's lightning fast.
01:55:55 That's a team.
01:55:57 And then you have a fearless pilot that's driving that, risking their lives on a track.
01:56:07 And I think about, you know, the adults that are doing that.
01:56:12 And I see how beautiful that is with the kids and how they're a mirror of what's happening
01:56:22 in a professional setting, what the kids are doing in a learning setting at such a tender
01:56:29 age working with robotics.
01:56:33 So it's teamwork, it's cooperation and engineering at its basic with the robotics at the age
01:56:41 the kids are, but then at its advanced with what's seeing what's happening in the pit
01:56:46 with F1.
01:56:47 It's like science, technology, engineering, arts and math.
01:56:51 If there was a sport or a realm and culture that is the perfect example and the metaphor
01:56:59 of science, technology, engineering, arts and math, it's F1.
01:57:03 And now music.
01:57:04 The art with the car, the beauty of the car.
01:57:06 And I love cars.
01:57:07 I love building them.
01:57:08 I love doing concept cars.
01:57:09 I've built six cars in my life.
01:57:11 You know, whenever I find some money to play with, with success for music, I go out and
01:57:17 build a car.
01:57:18 I've been doing that for the past 18 years just for me.
01:57:23 You know, it's like as a symbol of, yay, as a symbol of like, let's do it.
01:57:30 Let's make something that where only one exists.
01:57:34 In a world where there's abundance, we're swimming in abundance of information, swimming
01:57:40 in abundance of access to things that people take for granted.
01:57:45 Working with teams and building one-off concepts, that's luxury.
01:57:52 And I always dreamt of doing that growing up and seeing the kids working with these
01:57:56 robots really reminds me of F1.
01:57:59 And that's why I love F1 so much.
01:58:02 It's like the best sport, collaborative mind expansion sport there is.
01:58:11 So let me ask one other question, which is where does the, where do the black eyed peas
01:58:14 fit into this?
01:58:15 I don't know if they're going to be involved in your F1, you know, artists in residence,
01:58:21 but you know, since Fergie left, I know you've done, you've had Shakira, others come in.
01:58:28 Is the black eyed peas always going to be a part of your life as a performer, as a musician
01:58:34 going forward?
01:58:37 Black eyed peas is my family.
01:58:40 That's my pod.
01:58:41 You know, I don't want, I don't want to get like a dad joke and corny, but we're peas
01:58:48 in a pod.
01:58:50 We started off as three and while we were that trio, we always worked with female singers
01:58:56 from Kim Hill to Macy Gray to Estero to Debbie Nova to Fergie to Shakira.
01:59:03 We always worked with, now J. Ray Soul.
01:59:07 We always worked with, with female singers, but at the core, the trio, the three amigos
01:59:16 is me, Apen Taboo, and we're family.
01:59:18 We're brothers.
01:59:21 We will always travel the world and sing the songs that people have selected to be the
01:59:25 soundtracks to their lives.
01:59:28 And it's a blessing.
01:59:29 So you never, you never abandon that no matter how, you know, how big FYI gets, there's always
01:59:36 going to be Black Eyed Peas tours.
01:59:38 There's always going to be Black Eyed Peas music because that's therapy.
01:59:41 It's what bonds me and my best friends, my stability, my rock, my anchor.
01:59:46 And we keep each other down.
01:59:49 We hold each other up and we bro hugs all day.
01:59:54 I can't think of a better foundation for innovation than that.
01:59:58 So thanks for joining us, Will, and good luck with your program.
02:00:03 Look forward to seeing what comes next.
02:00:06 Thank you so much.
02:00:07 Thanks for asking questions about FYI and my passion for the company.
02:00:10 Thanks for asking questions on F1 and my passion for the sport and the connection between all
02:00:16 that stuff.
02:00:17 I only like to do things that reflect, you know, my purpose and my purpose is the work
02:00:22 that I do at I Am Angel.
02:00:23 So F1 is like a mirror of that.
02:00:26 FYI is like the purpose of why.
02:00:30 And Black Eyed Peas is just the vehicle that got me out of the ghetto to go back to my
02:00:34 neighborhood to take care of the people in my community.
02:00:39 Of course.
02:00:40 Look forward to continuing the conversation.
02:00:42 More good, great music to come.
02:00:44 Thanks, Will.
02:00:44 Thanks.
02:00:45 Thanks.
02:00:45 [END]

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