Challenge Dan-Dan meets renowned Shropshire-based sculptor Tim Royall.
Dan Morris meets renowned Shropshire-based sculptor Tim Royall, to talk about his career and passion for sculpture and stonemasonry.
Transcript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 Hi there folks.
00:11 Well, with the new year,
00:13 I've decided to work on expanding my skillset a little bit
00:15 and indulging a bit of creativity.
00:17 So we've come out today to the Moores Craft Centre
00:19 in Jackfield near Highbridge
00:21 to look at doing a bit of sculpting
00:24 and also learn about some stonemasonry.
00:26 Let's do this.
00:29 So we're here at Memorial Arts
00:31 with sculptor and stonemason, Tim Royal.
00:33 Tim, thanks for having us.
00:35 Tell us a bit about what you do here.
00:37 It looks incredible.
00:38 - So my practice is very varied,
00:40 principally focused on stone and stonemasonry.
00:43 So I do memorials and headstones and that kind of thing.
00:47 But I also do architectural carving, restoration work,
00:51 what we call banker masonry,
00:52 which is making the standard components,
00:54 sort of heads, sills, window frames,
00:57 that kind of thing, all in stone.
00:59 But then I also do work in wood as a woodcarver.
01:04 So I do letter carving in wood and sculpture
01:07 and also do work in bronze.
01:09 So for bronze work,
01:11 I would basically be making the original design,
01:13 the original sculpture,
01:15 and then I'd be working with a bronze foundry
01:17 to actually do the casting.
01:19 - Fantastic.
01:20 And how long have you been doing this professionally?
01:22 - So, well, I've been in creative industries
01:25 for 35 years now.
01:26 I was trained as a furniture designer and maker.
01:29 And then I worked various jobs,
01:32 working in superyacht design.
01:34 I worked as a jeweler for a while.
01:36 And then 25 years ago,
01:38 I started teaching myself stone carving and sculpture.
01:42 And I've basically been carried on that journey since.
01:46 So I've been teaching myself
01:47 pretty much all the way along the way.
01:48 - Fair play.
01:49 - Yeah.
01:50 - Wonderful.
01:51 I mean, I know you mentioned to me
01:53 that your work has taken you all over the world.
01:57 - Yeah, yeah.
01:57 I mean, I basically taught myself.
02:01 I lived out, I moved out to New Zealand.
02:03 And my intention there was to actually
02:05 just sort of get back to making things.
02:07 I think part of my career was that we,
02:10 I'd spent a lot of time sort of in front of a computer
02:13 doing design work and project management.
02:15 And what I wanted to do was to get back to making.
02:18 So when I moved out to,
02:20 I went out to visit Australia and New Zealand and Italy.
02:25 I sort of fell in love with stone
02:28 and decided actually,
02:31 you know what, I want to spend more and more
02:32 of my time doing this.
02:33 And it started off just by watching a simple,
02:37 a lovely programme actually on New Zealand TV
02:40 about some stone sculptors and jade carvers.
02:42 I thought, you know what, that looks really nice.
02:45 I'm gonna have a go.
02:46 And I mean, it just swept me up.
02:49 It completely swept me up.
02:51 And I was lost in it.
02:52 And I have been lost in it ever since, to be honest.
02:55 It's just been one of those things that it,
02:57 it kind of got into my soul.
02:59 And interestingly, I think the thing I found,
03:04 I sort of realised over the years is actually,
03:07 I remember my grandfather taking me
03:09 to Lichfield Cathedral when I was six.
03:12 And I remember being awestruck, even as a six year old,
03:16 by, you know, what the heck is this?
03:19 And it's this fantastic stone building
03:21 with all these amazing sculptures
03:23 and carvings all over it.
03:24 And clearly something got into me at that point.
03:28 - Well, they were always designed to be awe-inspiring.
03:31 - Yeah, very much so.
03:32 - So it obviously still has that effect.
03:34 - It still has that effect, yeah.
03:35 Yeah, it still has that effect.
03:36 And I still go into them now,
03:37 and I still have, it still has that same effect.
03:40 Yeah.
03:41 - Fair play to you.
03:42 Well, you're very kindly gonna let me assist you
03:46 today. - Yeah.
03:47 - So tell us a little bit about what it is
03:48 we're gonna be working on.
03:49 - So this is a carving of a regimental crest.
03:54 And it's the crest of the 36th Sikh Regiment of 1897.
04:00 - Okay.
04:03 - And it was, this particular regiment
04:07 were famous for defending a fort,
04:10 it was the Battle of Saragari.
04:13 And they defended a fort, 21 men defended a fort
04:17 against literally thousands of Afhidi and Uzbeki
04:22 Afghanistan marauders, basically.
04:26 They held the fort for several days against these,
04:31 the ratio apparently was one to 500 men.
04:34 And they were just coming off and coming up,
04:37 and these guys actually fiercely, ferociously
04:40 defended this fort.
04:43 Right down to the very last man.
04:45 And unfortunately they all did perish,
04:47 but they held it long enough for the,
04:51 and they managed to get messages back to the next fort
04:54 down the valley.
04:55 - Yeah.
04:56 - And they protected all of those people
04:58 in defending this particular fort.
05:01 So yeah, it's a really famous battle.
05:03 And the client is a historian who's obviously
05:07 deeply interested in the story.
05:09 - Wonderful.
05:09 - And he wants this carving to commemorate that event.
05:13 - Okay.
05:14 - So that's the basic design.
05:17 - Yeah.
05:18 - And you can see there, it's a lovely crest.
05:21 - It looks quite, you say basic,
05:23 it looks quite complicated.
05:24 - Well, yeah, yeah, we've got the wreath.
05:27 We've got the two circles here,
05:30 which represent the armbands that Sikhs,
05:33 the bracelets that Sikhs wear.
05:34 - Oh, I see.
05:36 - And then obviously there's the regiment
05:38 and the crown.
05:40 So yeah, so it's a nice design
05:44 and it will be carved in relief.
05:45 So we've got the carving down about,
05:49 we're given, I've got 50 mil to play with.
05:51 - Okay.
05:52 - For the carving.
05:53 - Right.
05:54 - So that will allow me to sort of really form it
05:55 and lift it out off the stone.
05:57 - Fantastic.
05:58 - So what we need to do first of all,
06:00 is obviously we've got a lot of areas
06:03 that are just complete waste.
06:04 - Right.
06:06 - In this case, for the purposes of this exercise,
06:08 I've actually just done a couple of preparatory cuts
06:11 just to remove some of the material.
06:12 - A bit of a blue peter job.
06:13 - A bit of a blue peter, yeah.
06:14 Here's a bit we did earlier.
06:16 So if you just take the hammer.
06:17 - Okay.
06:19 - Probably pop on the glasses.
06:21 - Yeah, health and safety.
06:22 - Health and safety.
06:23 We've got to be mindful of these things.
06:24 - Okay.
06:26 - Now, if you give that a good firm tap right on there.
06:29 Firm again.
06:32 There you go.
06:33 - There we are.
06:34 - That's the first bit off.
06:35 And then if you can do the same on there.
06:37 - No problem.
06:38 - Perfect.
06:39 - Fantastic.
06:41 - And then the last one there,
06:42 just give that a slightly gentler tap.
06:44 That's it.
06:45 - There we are.
06:46 - Lovely.
06:47 Right, so what we've got now,
06:49 we can see we've got these areas that are clear
06:52 and I've already sort of roughly outlined the design.
06:57 - Lovely.
06:59 - So what we're going to start to do now
07:01 is you're going to have a go at just chipping away
07:02 some of this material.
07:03 - Right.
07:04 - So we've got our prop hammers now.
07:06 - All right.
07:07 - Now you're going to pick up a dummy or a maul.
07:10 - That's quite a lot lighter.
07:12 - Yeah, it's a good sturdy hammer,
07:13 but it's got a lovely thunk to it.
07:15 - Right.
07:16 - And you're just going to,
07:18 in fact, actually, if I take that first off.
07:20 - Yeah, yeah, of course.
07:21 - Just to show you what we're,
07:22 I'm going to put my glasses on.
07:23 Mainly because I can't see.
07:26 Now, you can hold your chisel like that.
07:28 - Okay.
07:29 - So, little finger underneath.
07:30 - Yeah.
07:32 - And thumb up near the head.
07:35 - Right.
07:36 - And we're just going to take that away for a second
07:38 because we've got the line on there.
07:40 And we're going to, first of all,
07:43 just start to outline it.
07:52 That sort of thing.
07:57 - Okay.
07:58 - Right, you don't have to go that quickly.
07:59 - Yeah.
08:00 - Just give it a quick.
08:01 - I'm right-handed, Tim, so it's hammering the.
08:04 - Hammering your right hand.
08:05 - Yeah.
08:06 - Right, okay.
08:07 - And then the chisel there.
08:08 - And chisel like that.
08:09 - Yeah.
08:10 And what you want to do is you're pointing.
08:12 - Yeah.
08:12 - For you, just getting the corner in there.
08:14 - Okay.
08:15 - Right.
08:16 Right, and that, so then, exactly that.
08:21 - Yeah.
08:21 - And then just work it along as you go.
08:23 - Smashing.
08:23 - Work along the stone rather than going down
08:28 into the stone.
08:31 That's it.
08:32 That's all right.
08:45 - It feels good.
08:47 - It's nice, isn't it?
08:49 So, I'm just going to show you another thing.
08:52 If you, so rather than just doing that.
08:56 - Yeah.
08:57 - If you actually tap and take it away,
08:58 tap and take it away.
08:59 - Okay.
09:00 - Tap and take it away.
09:01 Tap and take it away.
09:02 And you see then, and you find that the chisel
09:06 automatically wants to go back into the same spot.
09:08 - Gotcha.
09:09 - Yeah.
09:10 - It's a great feeling.
09:14 It's not something that I get to do a lot.
09:15 - No.
09:16 - It's a great feeling to actually be working
09:17 with my hands.
09:18 - Yes.
09:19 Yeah, well this is--
09:20 - This is the soul.
09:20 - This is very good for the soul.
09:21 - Yeah.
09:22 - I think that's the thing.
09:23 I think this is an interesting point
09:25 that people are sort of beginning to find again.
09:27 - Yeah.
09:28 - That actually making things,
09:30 we are fundamentally makers.
09:32 - Yeah.
09:33 - And a lot of our sort of jobs these days
09:38 have taken us away from that.
09:39 - Yeah.
09:40 - And so people are kind of realizing
09:43 there is a lot of joy and a lot of pleasure
09:46 in making things.
09:47 And you see that with the growth of programs,
09:49 you know, dedicated to makers.
09:50 - I can imagine what we're doing here today,
09:54 it's not necessarily something that people think of
09:56 when they're a small child.
09:58 Imagining what they're gonna do as a career,
09:59 a job and all that.
10:00 And maybe even a lot of people don't realize
10:02 that actually you can still make a very good living doing it.
10:06 - They're very viable careers.
10:07 - Yeah.
10:08 - Not always easy, but they are very viable careers.
10:10 - And I suppose you have to obviously put
10:11 a great deal of time and training and practice in.
10:16 - It's the sort of the 10,000 hours thing.
10:20 - Yeah.
10:21 - You know, to be competent, to be good at what you do,
10:25 you've gotta put in the time.
10:27 But that's the same for every profession.
10:29 - Of course.
10:30 - It's just with making,
10:32 you have something very, very tangible at the end.
10:35 - Yeah.
10:36 - That you can show to people that lasts, that is there.
10:40 You know, I mean, our museums are full of things
10:44 that people have made.
10:45 - Yeah.
10:47 - You know, we visit, we spend a lot of our time
10:50 going to places to see how things were made,
10:53 the history around them.
10:54 The Ironbury's Gorge here, perfect example.
10:57 They're both parts of industry.
10:59 So yeah.
11:01 - All right, wonderful.
11:03 - So you got tap and take away.
11:04 - Tap and take away.
11:05 - Yeah.
11:07 That's it.
11:08 - All right.
11:09 - So like I said,
11:30 there's something really heartwarming about doing this.
11:32 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:33 Remember to breathe.
11:34 - That's very good advice.
11:38 (laughing)
11:40 - Often when I watch people doing it for the first time,
11:42 I realize that.
11:43 - Yeah, well, I think that's a natural thing.
11:45 I mean, you know, obviously I'm just conscious of,
11:47 I don't wanna mess up what we're gonna be doing.
11:51 - You're not gonna mess it up, no, it's absolutely fine.
11:53 - And a piece like this that we're doing at the moment, Tim,
11:59 how long would you normally expect to spend on this?
12:02 - So I would hope, I mean,
12:03 this is actually a really, really detailed carving.
12:06 And it's gonna be a lot of sort of fine details
12:09 with the, again, with the leaves, the crown details.
12:14 Obviously, this is all,
12:16 it's all going to be three-dimensional.
12:17 - Yeah.
12:18 - And the text itself.
12:20 So there'll be a minimum of sort of four or five days on this.
12:22 - Wow, right.
12:24 - Even a piece this scale.
12:25 - I think it'd probably take me a lot longer than that.
12:27 (laughing)
12:29 Thank you ever so much for letting me have a go, Tim.
12:30 I've really enjoyed that.
12:31 And as you say,
12:33 there's just something really, really nice and cathartic,
12:36 I think, about working with your hands like that.
12:38 We've already touched a little bit on how, you know,
12:42 what you do is still obviously a career
12:45 that can be enjoyed by many.
12:46 How would people go about getting involved
12:49 in stone masonry and sculpting as a profession?
12:51 - There are a couple of pathways.
12:53 I mean, I think if you're talking about stone masonry,
12:55 particularly, obviously the first thing you can do
12:59 is look for apprenticeships.
13:00 There are, there's a definite shortage
13:04 of young people coming along and finding apprenticeships.
13:07 But they are available.
13:11 And there are things like the Cathedral Foundation,
13:14 Cathedral Fellowship,
13:17 and they actually have a pathway
13:21 that allows people to go and learn at a cathedral workshop.
13:24 There are 10 of those around the country.
13:27 And they do still take on apprentices.
13:29 - Right.
13:31 - There are also then a couple of colleges.
13:32 So there's a Building Crafts College in London.
13:35 There's Weymouth College, Bath College.
13:37 I was trying to think.
13:40 I think that's the sort of the three main ones.
13:42 There was one up in Edinburgh, sadly,
13:44 they've just closed theirs.
13:45 Because of lack of people, ironically.
13:48 - That's a shame, isn't it?
13:49 - Yeah, yeah.
13:50 So I think that's, you know, those are,
13:54 those are the sort of the formal training avenues.
13:58 But there are still stone masonry firms
14:00 all around the country.
14:01 I mean, I sort of follow probably
14:04 about 40 different firms on, through social media.
14:08 And very often you see signs, "We're hiring."
14:14 You know, so they want people to come along.
14:16 And there are lots of different aspects
14:18 within stone masonry as well.
14:20 So there's the banker work, which is what we're doing here.
14:23 We're starting on, this is a banker.
14:26 There is carving and sculpture,
14:28 which is itself a very specific trade.
14:31 There is a brilliant, probably one of the best
14:35 training courses in Europe, certainly, if not the world.
14:39 In London at the City and Guilds,
14:41 they still offer a fantastic architectural carving
14:44 and a wood carving course, two separate courses.
14:46 So those are possibilities.
14:49 But yeah, if you want to give it a go.
14:52 There are also lots of stone masons
14:54 and craftsmen like myself who offer courses,
14:57 one-day courses or weekend courses or longer.
15:00 So get online, have a look.
15:02 - Fantastic. - Yeah.
15:04 - So if you're looking for something
15:05 that's good for the soul, it's out there.
15:08 Thank you very much, Tim.
15:09 - Pleasure.
15:10 [BLANK_AUDIO]