Between The Eers: Bigger Things to Come in 2024?
Between The Eers: Bigger Things to Come in 2024?
Transcript
00:00 [MUSIC]
00:10 Welcome in everybody.
00:11 It is a Friday edition here of the Between the Years Show.
00:14 I'm Scott Calin.
00:15 That is Christopher Paul.
00:17 And make sure you hit that subscribe button on YouTube and Mountain Ears Now.
00:20 Give us a follow and all that good jazz.
00:23 Let's go ahead and do our final football wrap-up of the '23 season.
00:27 I know we've already done a lot of stuff in regards to '24
00:31 and stuff like that, taking a look ahead.
00:33 But we didn't really ever get a chance to look back at the '23 season.
00:37 So, we'll do that a little bit here today.
00:39 The final rankings just came out.
00:41 So, in fairness -- Yeah, that's what we were waiting for.
00:44 So, let's just start there.
00:46 So, West Virginia gets 25th in the coaches poll,
00:50 technically 27th in the AP Top 25.
00:56 I don't know what to really take from it.
00:58 I mean, in my opinion, I mean, yeah, it stinks.
01:02 I don't really think it matters in the grand scheme of things.
01:04 But I think they should have been there.
01:08 I mean, you look at the teams that were put ahead of them
01:11 and it doesn't really make sense.
01:12 But, I mean, again, we are talking about college football, college sports.
01:18 Nothing ever really makes sense in this space.
01:20 So, it's not really much of a surprise.
01:24 I said it to you off the show that I think there's some media members
01:28 that don't really like Neil Brown, especially after they picked him last
01:32 and he went after them over the summer and continued throughout the fall.
01:36 People forget about that.
01:37 And continued throughout the fall campaign.
01:40 So, it is what it is.
01:42 That's why we have a playoff system now.
01:45 That's why they went away from AP Poll to do national championships
01:49 and went to the BCS formula.
01:51 And there's a lot of people that say different teams,
01:54 but the reality was it was because of West Virginia in '93
01:58 with Lee Corso out there campaigning for Florida State on ESPN.
02:02 And at that time, ESPN is still the king of college football coverage,
02:07 but that was the only one at that time.
02:09 So, it is what it is.
02:12 To me, it's better because it adds motivation this offseason.
02:19 We'll see what the preseason rankings, you know, that's a ways away.
02:25 When they put out their poll, there'll be a ton of way too early
02:28 and all that good stuff.
02:29 But it is what it is.
02:31 I like it because of motivation.
02:33 Coaches showed respect.
02:34 Even Pat Norduzzi put him in the top 25.
02:37 So, the rival put you in.
02:39 Quite a few Big 12 coaches put him in.
02:41 Kyle Winningham, surprisingly, didn't put him in.
02:44 Thought he'd have a little more respect for the greatness of West Virginia.
02:47 You'd think you'd want to be nice to your fellow college teammates.
02:52 Even Lance Leopold from Kansas put him in.
02:56 Did you see where James Franklin put him, or did he have him in?
03:00 I don't remember.
03:02 That's interesting.
03:06 I think a lot of the coaches that will play with you
03:09 probably put him in.
03:10 Franklin probably put him in number five.
03:14 More than likely.
03:16 I don't know.
03:17 I think it's going to make it look a little better.
03:19 That's the thing.
03:20 I don't really think it's going to matter.
03:22 Some years you could say, well, you kind of want to be ranked,
03:25 even if it's the bottom five spots to go into next year
03:28 because that gives you some leverage going into next season
03:31 with the preseason rankings.
03:32 But I don't really think it matters because people are going to look at this
03:36 and say, okay, it was a 9-1 West Virginia team.
03:38 They got the quarterback back.
03:39 They got all this stuff back.
03:41 They really don't get much further into this
03:43 outside of what they did last year as a quarterback back and all that stuff.
03:46 And then, oh, yeah, they open up with Penn State.
03:49 You mean to tell me they're not going to have West Virginia ranked
03:52 in that opportunity?
03:53 Like there's not very many top 25 matchups usually in week one
03:57 at the start of every year.
03:58 So, like I think that's going to be a thing, is it not?
04:03 Possibly.
04:04 And, I mean, you just kind of go back to it.
04:07 They won nine games.
04:08 I don't know how you don't put them in.
04:10 Yeah, you have your starting quarterback back.
04:12 It's just nonsense.
04:14 It is what it is.
04:15 But, again, just put that chip -- another chip on their shoulder
04:18 and be motivation here when it works out.
04:21 So, I apologize.
04:22 I apologize to Neal.
04:24 I did not see this coming.
04:26 I, quite frankly, thought it was a matter of not necessarily if he would get
04:32 fired or when he would get fired,
04:34 but I felt like he was going to be walking that line all the way up
04:38 until the end of the season.
04:40 And in some ways he may have.
04:42 I mean, we will never know.
04:44 But even after the Cincinnati game, you're like, okay,
04:48 well if they go to Baylor and they lose, and then they lose the bowl game,
04:52 he's back on that gray area.
04:54 And when they were not able to really put things away,
04:57 Baylor kind of left some folks undesired.
05:00 I don't know.
05:02 But regardless, he won both games, Baylor, the bowl game,
05:07 and now they've got a lot of momentum going into 2024.
05:11 So, Neal, I'm sorry.
05:13 I was wrong on you guys.
05:15 I had them, I believe, six and six.
05:17 You may have a better memory than me.
05:19 I can't remember what I picked them at.
05:20 I think it was six and six.
05:22 Yeah, I think it was six and six.
05:23 So, they won a couple games I didn't expect them to.
05:28 I think really the only difference was just that I didn't see Garrett Green
05:34 being the way Garrett Green played this year.
05:37 That was the big difference for me.
05:39 I thought that he was going to be good enough to start and win some games,
05:44 but I just felt at some point they may have ended up turning Danico Marchio.
05:49 Well, they never needed to do that.
05:51 Whenever Garrett was healthy, he played phenomenal.
05:54 And it's exciting when you have a quarterback that's a dual threat,
05:58 has another year of eligibility coming back.
06:01 Props to Neal Brown and that coaching staff for getting out of Garrett Green
06:06 what they got out of him.
06:08 I picked a mate in four and it played out of --
06:10 [Laughter]
06:13 I knew they'd lose a game or two.
06:18 This is the second spring year, right?
06:20 No, basketball I picked.
06:22 Basketball.
06:23 Everything correctly in basketball.
06:24 Football, well, I mean the conference record.
06:27 I think I still got the conference record right in football, I believe.
06:30 So you've got -- you had the basketball record to the T.
06:34 You had not only the overall, but the Big 12 record too, right?
06:37 I just did that in football as well.
06:40 I don't need to apologize.
06:42 In fact, they need to do better.
06:45 [Laughter]
06:48 They still got a long way to go.
06:50 I know we'll kind of get looking ahead, but, yeah, you kind of hit it.
06:54 Garrett, I could see in fall camp that he had made leaps and bounds
06:58 from where he was, especially when he first came into the program.
07:02 But you could kind of see it.
07:04 And the reason why I knew they'd lose a game or two is
07:06 because they were still a young nucleus.
07:08 I mean, you look at the receivers on the outside.
07:10 We didn't even -- we had so many questions at receivers going into this season.
07:13 They answered some.
07:14 They're still really young.
07:16 They made some plays.
07:17 Didn't get that 1,000-yard receiver this year.
07:19 But, you know, a big piece of the puzzle why they had so much success
07:24 was Country Roads Trust being able to retain those players.
07:27 CJ Donaldson goes down, who comes in, Jaheim White.
07:29 Now, he was a freshman, but when you think about it,
07:32 if they didn't have trust in place, more than likely,
07:35 CJ wouldn't have been in Morgantown.
07:37 So then you would have been relying on Jaheim White
07:39 or maybe, you know, more Justin Johnson.
07:43 But he got hurt.
07:45 So you kind of look at the injuries, you probably would have been relying
07:47 on two freshmen, and that makes a big deal.
07:49 It hurts you in the passing game for pass pro.
07:55 It starts there.
07:57 And I think really -- I don't want to say they locked out
07:59 because they went and got the kids,
08:01 but having a primarily a West Virginia native offensive line where they were able
08:05 to keep the kids and not let them waver in years past and let them go.
08:11 Offensive linemen aren't as, I guess, coveted in some retrospects
08:15 when they want to go out and get a playmaker and spend all their money.
08:18 So they probably got a little lucky in that as well.
08:20 But being that they're West Virginia natives and wanted to be here,
08:23 that made a difference.
08:25 I've said for years, go get West Virginia kids, especially in the trenches.
08:28 You can develop them.
08:29 Look at Nick Malone.
08:31 I mean, this is a Morgantown kid.
08:33 There is a Morgantown kid that's getting massive opportunity here
08:38 on the offensive lines.
08:40 Look, if you can continue to find guys and develop them in a few years,
08:46 then you're going to have guys that are going to fight for you in the trenches,
08:49 and they've done that.
08:50 So you've got to commend them for that.
08:52 And then defensively, there was obviously question marks.
08:55 Beanie Bishop answered the bell.
08:57 I thought he did great, and he had some great freshmen.
08:59 Look, man, I get him in the receiver.
09:02 Traylon Ray, is he the linebacker?
09:04 Yeah.
09:05 Latham.
09:06 Latham's loving it.
09:07 Latham.
09:08 All right.
09:09 We'll get him by year three or four this time.
09:11 Yeah.
09:12 Latham, you know, he stepped in as a freshman, played linebacker.
09:15 Ben Cutter came in after he was injured.
09:17 So they've recruited well to fit their system.
09:20 Now it's just a matter of kind of continue to build on that.
09:23 Defensive line was way better than I thought we could ever expect.
09:29 Yeah, I mean, rotating nine guys.
09:31 Yeah.
09:32 So they did a good job filling it in.
09:34 It's still a huge work in progress defensively.
09:37 It seems like, you know, these guys get a little bit of notoriety or whatever,
09:42 and, man, these other teams are calling.
09:44 So it's definitely fluid defensively.
09:46 They're going to have to figure it out.
09:48 Man, they figured a way to kind of just completely turn the shift in one year
09:53 in the outlook of the football program.
09:55 Again, credit to the trust and Ron Baker for letting them utilize it.
09:59 I mean, to me, if you would have told me at the beginning of the year
10:02 that these things would line up and they'd win nine games.
10:06 So Devin Carter, he has two touchdowns all year, barely gets over --
10:11 he only has like 500 receiving yards for the year.
10:14 C.J. Donaldson doesn't throw -- doesn't rush for 1,000 yards.
10:19 Garrett Green's completion percentage is in the low 50s.
10:23 If you would have told me that combination of things came out,
10:26 I would have told you there's no way in hell that Neil Brown is still the coach
10:30 at the end of the '23 season because it would have felt like they were just
10:35 a mess offensively, and that was the furthest thing from the truth.
10:41 So I think you also got to talk about Jaheim White and the surges that he had.
10:46 I mean, people forget he only started really playing from the UCF game on,
10:52 and that was the final game of October.
10:55 So we're really talking one full month of Jaheim White,
10:59 and he almost goes for 1,000 yards.
11:02 That is incredible.
11:04 So they have found a star in Jaheim White.
11:09 I think they've got some stars in the making with Traylon Ray and Ronnie Gallagher.
11:13 But Jaheim White, I mean, are you buying what he is selling right now,
11:20 or do you think that was kind of like a little bit of a one-month hit there with him?
11:25 I think a long way to go.
11:26 You've kind of seen the bowl game, what C.J. Donaldson was going through
11:29 at the beginning of the year.
11:30 He was overthinking everything.
11:32 There's a chance.
11:34 Now C.J. just started playing running back last season,
11:37 so there's a bit of a difference between the two.
11:40 But, you know, you consider a sophomore slump if he just matches his numbers
11:45 from this year, right?
11:47 Yeah, which is still pretty good.
11:49 Yeah, so you've kind of got to put that in mind,
11:51 that he matches his numbers doesn't mean necessarily a bad year.
11:54 They're going to throw a lot at him this spring and into the summer.
11:59 So, yeah, there's a lot of stars.
12:02 And you mentioned Gary Green, his low pass percentage.
12:05 What makes a difference is something that they didn't have.
12:07 You have to have somebody overcome that, right?
12:12 If there's a penalty, when they were penalized in years past,
12:15 they didn't have a playmaker to kind of overcome those mistakes.
12:19 Well, Garrett overcame a lot of his mistakes when he didn't hit the pass
12:22 on the outside.
12:23 He either made a good throw or he ended up doing it with his legs.
12:26 And that's really the biggest difference is what they didn't have in the pass.
12:29 I mean J.T. Daniels was a pretty decent quarterback.
12:32 If you have the talent around him, he can distribute the ball.
12:34 But he didn't kind of have that X factor.
12:36 And you can say the same thing about Deke.
12:38 He could deliver the ball,
12:39 but he didn't really have anybody on the outside.
12:41 Green had a bunch of freshmen on the outside.
12:44 And Devin Carter hadn't been proven yet.
12:46 The difference was he could use his legs to make a play.
12:49 Tips to Balaw Marshall, too.
12:51 So that's just really the biggest difference.
12:53 The receivers still have a lot to prove.
12:55 There's still a long way to go and a work in progress.
12:59 And, you know, that's really -- as we get into it,
13:01 that's really a big concern for me.
13:03 And next year is the receiver,
13:05 because they still have to prove that they can go make plays consistently.
13:09 And they're going to have to make some big-time plays if they want to even be
13:12 anywhere and just sniff the convention of the Big 12 Conference Championship.
13:16 How do you go about replacing Zach Frazier?
13:19 I mean that's -- You don't replace Zach Frazier.
13:22 But you've got guys in there now that's been in the program two, three years.
13:26 They've done a really good job of building that offensive line.
13:28 You've seen the work.
13:29 You've seen the work.
13:30 And you've seen the kind of end results this season.
13:33 So, you know, Brandon Yates is going to step right in and be fine.
13:36 He's going to be a great leader.
13:37 He's a good leader on the field.
13:38 He's a good leader on the rocker room.
13:40 So, yeah, you're not going to replace an All-American.
13:42 But they're going to go through winter workouts, spring ball,
13:45 summer workouts, and all fall camp.
13:48 And Yates is going to -- I wouldn't be shocked if Yates ends up being an
13:51 All-Conference player.
13:52 He's very good.
13:53 He's athletic.
13:55 It's a shame he could have gotten Zach Frazier one more year.
13:58 He's been here four years.
14:00 He played all four years.
14:02 Man, that kid was so much fun to watch.
14:06 I just keep replaying that Pitt game in my mind.
14:09 I think officially I want to say it was 14 or 16 knockdowns.
14:15 That means pancake blocks.
14:17 He was just tossing Pitt players around that field.
14:20 So, going to miss seeing stuff like that.
14:22 And obviously the way he ended his career, you know,
14:27 limping off the field to save time and everything.
14:29 I mean, that --
14:30 That's icing on the cake for his career.
14:33 That play in particular just really encapsulates his whole time there.
14:38 I mean, like, just a hard-working, blue-collar kid, smart as hell,
14:44 tough as nails, will do everything he can to get his team a win.
14:48 I mean, to be able to carry Hudson across the first down marker,
14:52 stops the clock, that saves time.
14:55 Him getting off the field saves time.
14:58 And then for Brandon Yates to come in and just go
15:02 and have no issues at center, having no reps.
15:06 That's part of the development.
15:07 They've been using him as a backup for two years.
15:10 So, I mean, that's just part of it.
15:11 If that happens --
15:12 When you're building a culture, when you're building stuff like that,
15:14 it takes time, and they finally get to that point.
15:17 If that happens in 2021, it's Helter Skelter.
15:21 I mean, there's no doubt about it.
15:23 That would have been an absolute mess.
15:27 But it gave Baylor a chance to regroup there after the play.
15:30 So, yeah, there was a lot kind of going on there.
15:32 But, yeah, I mean, again, credit to Matt Moore and his staff
15:35 for continuing to find guys and continue to rotate guys,
15:39 move guys, and find their strengths
15:41 and see if they're better on the right or left.
15:43 And that's just what they've been doing for five years.
15:45 So, I don't really --
15:47 You know, you're probably going to have maybe a drop-off,
15:49 but, I mean, that's just kind of the perception since you're losing Zach.
15:52 And Doug along that line.
15:55 But, you know, there's guys there.
15:58 There's guys there, and they're going to step right in.
16:00 And I'm not going to say they're going to be the next Doug Nessar,
16:02 but they're going to be the next whoever,
16:04 and you're going to start giving them praise as the season goes along.
16:07 What I think they need to really kind of focus on between now and August
16:11 or now in September or whatever is --
16:14 Well, I guess it would be August because I think the Penn State game is
16:16 August 31st, so technically August.
16:20 Is they're going to have to find another receiving threat at tight end,
16:25 and they're going to look through the portal,
16:27 and they're going to still try and develop the guys that they have.
16:30 But they're going to have to develop another tight end receiving threat.
16:34 They're going to have to develop another running back, I think,
16:37 that's going to be ready to go in time because everyone's going to know
16:40 Cole Taylor.
16:41 They're going to be covering him.
16:42 If you could throw more 12 personnel out there.
16:44 Well, if you've got two other receivers,
16:46 there's not too many guys, too many programs,
16:48 that have three NFL caliber defensive backs out there.
16:52 That's true.
16:54 He just needs some development on the outside.
16:57 I'm thinking that's going to need a receiving threat.
16:59 Traylon Davis has come a long way.
17:00 I don't think you really need that because they're not going to do that
17:04 many double tight end sets maybe down in the red zone.
17:07 I would like two tight end sets, but that's just me.
17:09 But I think it would be more so a comfort level,
17:13 knowing that like, if God forbid, something happened to Cole.
17:16 Everyone would like two tight ends.
17:18 I want seven tight ends.
17:20 That's just who I am.
17:22 You've got to still grow on trees.
17:24 See, I guess I got this stuck because I've been playing mad in the last
17:28 couple of weeks and I use the tight ends like 10 times.
17:31 Oh boy.
17:32 But that's just how I go about things.
17:34 I'm a power smash mouth.
17:36 But anyways, I want, I would want a second tight end.
17:40 It doesn't have to be Cole Taylor-esque.
17:43 I just think at worst you want something more out of Traylon Davis or
17:47 whether it's TJ Johnson, somebody to just give you a security blanket.
17:52 Because if something happens to Cole Taylor,
17:54 that whole element of your offense goes away.
17:56 But I think more importantly, probably, is you need a third running back.
18:01 CJ's had a well-documented injury history.
18:04 We just talked about Jaheim.
18:06 Is there going to be a sophomore slump of some sorts?
18:08 You need to have a third guy ready.
18:11 I don't know who that's going to be, whether it's DJ Oliver,
18:14 whether it's one of these freshman kids that are coming in.
18:16 Is it Jalen Anderson?
18:18 I mean, is he still going to be here?
18:20 We don't know,
18:21 but they have to almost have a third running back ready to go by August 31st
18:26 or 30th, whatever that date is.
18:28 Yeah, I mean, sure.
18:30 I think if you cut down to the third running back,
18:34 you would have by the time you get down to that,
18:36 I mean, worst case scenario, you lose two in the open.
18:40 The likelihood of that happening.
18:42 Technically, Jaheim was RB3 this year.
18:45 Yeah, he was.
18:47 Or actually, really, RB4.
18:49 Probably, yeah.
18:51 Well, I mean, Jalen kind of lost his when he gave up the ball.
18:54 Yeah.
18:56 Yeah, I think you can't really think that far ahead.
18:59 I mean, the staff will,
19:01 but you kind of just want to look at the two deep right now.
19:03 I think really when you're looking at playmakers,
19:05 it's all about the receivers.
19:07 I think you're fine running game.
19:08 It's just how can they make a big jump.
19:10 I know Hudson Clement had his moments,
19:12 but, I mean, you've got to have moments every week.
19:14 If you want to compete for the Big 12,
19:16 you've got to get these guys to have those moments every week.
19:18 We need to be talking about Traylon Ray on the outside.
19:21 We need to be talking about Hudson Clement every single week,
19:23 Rodney Gallagher.
19:24 These guys are going to have to make big steps.
19:26 They've got to get stronger.
19:27 They've got to get off press coverage.
19:29 They're going to have to understand the weak spots in the zone
19:31 and what to do when Garrett Green, you know,
19:35 do they go deep or they come back when Garrett Green starts scrambling.
19:39 And those are the things they're going to have to learn
19:40 and get accustomed to with their quarterback this season.
19:43 There's a lot.
19:44 That's a huge work in progress because I, for one, do not, you know,
19:48 I know there's a lot of hype.
19:49 I understand that, rightfully so,
19:51 but I do not see West Virginia right now as a Big 12 contender,
19:55 like at all, like not even close.
19:58 So I think like, I think non wins is max for them right now.
20:04 Of course, this is January.
20:05 It's a long way to go.
20:06 But on that note,
20:07 there's also guys that can leave after spring that kind of hurt you going
20:11 into the next season.
20:12 So I just think right now, even with the rest of the app,
20:14 non wins is the max.
20:16 And that's not bad.
20:17 That's terrific.
20:19 Hey, look, that's what everybody was wanting.
20:21 You want at least eight,
20:22 nine wins and give yourself a chance every now and then.
20:25 But right now with the receiving core, just how young they are.
20:27 I just don't, I don't see them giving them a chance.
20:30 Now look, they can go out and just ball out next year.
20:33 And that's fantastic.
20:34 Bring me wrong.
20:35 But right now, which you have,
20:36 you just haven't seen that consistency and that's what you,
20:39 they haven't had it since no Browns here.
20:41 So they've got to find it.
20:43 And you just said it, you're not going to replace Zach Frazier.
20:46 We saw it in the bowl game.
20:47 As good as the offensive line.
20:49 I think they, they, they managed right.
20:51 And they're going to have all off season to figure it out.
20:53 But there was a clear difference between Zach Frazier on that line and
20:58 Zach Frazier, not on the offensive line.
21:00 And you're not just going to get.
21:02 You might get lucky.
21:04 Good guys on that North Carolina defense.
21:06 You got to give them, you got to give them credit.
21:08 But there was a lot of what was going on was.
21:11 They're just young and they overthink it.
21:13 You just got to play.
21:16 And the other thing is too, you're,
21:17 you're not going to more than likely just pluck another beanie Bishop.
21:20 Out of the portal.
21:21 And get a consensus all American. That is.
21:25 A once in a how many, every year's thing. I mean, there's only been.
21:28 I've been around.
21:29 Like in this portal era.
21:33 It hasn't been around too long,
21:34 but you're not going to find those types of talents every single year in
21:37 the portal, or even out of high school. It's, it's a hard thing to do.
21:41 And to get that type of replay or the production out of somebody that's,
21:45 that's asking a lot. So I think.
21:47 You factor all that in you factor in, okay, this is.
21:51 I mean, technically you could say a sophomore slump could be.
21:54 Coming up for care. I mean, everyone's talking about him.
21:57 Building off of this season, but this was the first full year. He started.
22:01 Now team's got tape on this.
22:04 Yeah.
22:05 Is this the best of what we've seen?
22:07 All these defense going into his big 12.
22:09 Do not want him running all over.
22:11 So they're going to be watching all his.
22:13 All his tendencies and everything. What he doesn't do. Well,
22:17 are they going to force them out of. Yep.
22:19 So, yeah, they've all got a long way to go because it's this.
22:23 They play 11 power conferences and you're going to start off with Penn
22:25 state.
22:26 Is going to see all those weaknesses and have the talent to expose them.
22:30 We're not, I mean, we're not trying to be that.
22:32 If you look.
22:33 If you look what happened last year, right. The beginning of the year.
22:36 Like Justin Johnson.
22:37 We just saw about running backs getting hurt.
22:39 Like guys got hurt, beat up in that first game.
22:41 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
22:43 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
22:45 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
22:47 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
22:49 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
22:51 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
22:53 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
22:55 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
22:57 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
22:59 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
23:01 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
23:03 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
23:05 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
23:07 And then they got a lot of guys that got hurt.
23:09 But the NIL, you know, they have --
23:13 they're setting themselves up, you know, with a better chance.
23:17 But you really want that kind of chemistry.
23:19 As much as they try to -- as much as they do,
23:22 the kind of movement and recognition,
23:24 you really got to be able to trust the people behind you.
23:26 So they've got a long way to work,
23:28 a long way to go in that area.
23:30 But they do have a lot of young talent
23:32 that they can continue to retain
23:34 to kind of build off what they've done.
23:37 And, I mean, the schedule, like, it's so far out
23:40 that we're trying to project this crap.
23:42 But, I mean, just looking at it based on home and away,
23:45 they don't have the date set.
23:47 But it's not this year's schedule, right?
23:52 It's a much more difficult schedule.
23:54 We know Arizona, for sure, is an away game that --
23:59 and a team that returns a lot of talent off --
24:02 You got to travel across the country to play Arizona.
24:04 It's going to be probably one of the --
24:06 They probably will be --
24:08 They'll be more of a consideration,
24:09 a dark horse contender than West Virginia.
24:11 Like, this is going to be a good team.
24:12 They picked up some --
24:13 Got to go to Oklahoma State.
24:14 Yep.
24:15 Got to go to Cincinnati, which --
24:17 People would overlook Cincinnati.
24:18 But, look, that's going to be year two for them.
24:22 I'm not saying they're going to make progress.
24:23 Any road game is tough.
24:24 I don't care where you go.
24:26 It's not easy.
24:27 It's the first time they've hosted West Virginia
24:28 in how many years?
24:29 To them, that's going to be important.
24:32 There's going to be a lot of tough games.
24:34 And, obviously, the one right out of the gate with Penn State,
24:37 you got Pitt.
24:38 I don't know if they're going to do anything.
24:40 But, I mean, it's a rivalry game.
24:43 And they'll give out all the T-shirts
24:45 and give out all the tickets so it fills again.
24:47 Like, I've never seen anything like that before.
24:50 Everybody was wearing the same T-shirt.
24:51 Kind of odd.
24:52 But, yeah, I mean, that's what's going to happen.
24:54 You said it was a little cultish.
24:55 It was cultish, yeah.
24:56 Everyone wearing the same shirt.
24:58 And you could tell they, like, came from the office
25:01 because a lot of them had, like, collared shirts underneath their T-shirt
25:04 that they handed out.
25:05 So, there was definitely corporations that got a lot of tickets
25:08 and probably made it mandatory for them to go.
25:11 Hey, you want to go to this football game for free or for 10 bucks?
25:14 Here, here's a T-shirt.
25:15 Strolling down to Heinz Field or Akkers.
25:18 Extra credit work.
25:20 Yeah, it's probably going to happen again because they don't --
25:23 you know, they were so paranoid about West Virginia
25:26 having more fans there.
25:28 And they're going to be paranoid about it next year.
25:30 If they can get the buy-in because that was after the picket season.
25:33 So, coming off, what, three wins?
25:36 Three wins.
25:37 Yeah, good luck.
25:38 Good luck.
25:39 They might have to legit pay people next year.
25:40 Yeah, and just -- I mean, that weekend, Pirates are playing the Royals.
25:45 So, just saying.
25:48 Not that it really matters to anybody else.
25:50 Royals is a sell?
25:52 No, the Pirates are a sell, man.
25:54 Come on now.
25:55 I don't know what's worse, the Royals or the Pirates.
25:59 Yeah, we won't get into that discussion.
26:01 Oh, we can get into it.
26:02 I think it's hilarious that Pittsburgh teams lose.
26:05 I'll get depressed.
26:07 But, anyway, so let's get back on track here.
26:10 Going over to the defensive side, kind of felt like an up and down year, right?
26:15 The defense kind of helped carry the team a little bit through that weird
26:19 little period where Garrett was hurt.
26:21 They had to go with Nico.
26:23 The Pitt game, Texas Tech, and then when Garrett came back for TCU,
26:27 they played well.
26:29 And it was really since the bye week on, when they played Houston and moving
26:33 forward, really didn't get a whole lot of consistency out of that side.
26:39 They played, I think, decent against BYU, but they had a backup quarterback in,
26:44 did okay against North Carolina, but again, slew of backups.
26:49 It felt like a unit that kind of regressed, but in some respects, I mean,
26:53 you can't really blame them.
26:55 They had so many injuries on that side at key spots.
26:58 So, I mean, do you feel like it was a unit that went backwards,
27:02 or there were some things there that was just -- it was a lot to overcome?
27:07 No, they just got exposed.
27:09 The other teams just didn't have -- the other teams just didn't have what
27:13 Houston did.
27:15 If you go back and listen to the Houston keys of the game, I said,
27:19 "This is a bad matchup for us.
27:20 We don't like it."
27:21 They got really good receivers in the slot and on the outside,
27:24 and they can expose that.
27:25 It can stretch the field.
27:26 And you saw when a team like Oklahoma, what they could do with it,
27:30 and that's what happened.
27:31 It snowballed quickly.
27:32 When they couldn't keep up -- they couldn't keep up offensively.
27:35 They struggled there early, lost their confidence early.
27:39 It snowballed really bad.
27:41 That's what happened.
27:42 So, it wasn't that they were bad.
27:44 They just didn't have all the pieces.
27:45 Like you said, there was injuries.
27:47 It's just a work in progress.
27:49 That's why it's important to keep bringing these freshman and
27:51 retained players.
27:52 They just could not -- when teams were able to stretch the field and had a
27:56 quarterback that could get it out there, it was a problem.
27:59 I mean, Penn State wasn't able -- Penn State didn't really -- I mean,
28:03 you kind of see how their season played out with Drew Illari.
28:06 You know, kind of felt he was over-hyped going into the season,
28:08 but a program like Penn State, you know, they want to build that up.
28:12 Is he even the starter next year?
28:14 I mean, like he's done well, but --
28:18 Well, I mean, it doesn't matter.
28:19 Apparently James Franklin doesn't know what a 50/50 ball is,
28:22 and he won't throw it down the field.
28:24 So, it's quite impressive what they're doing there at times.
28:27 But, yeah, I mean, that's just really what it is.
28:29 When Houston -- you know, you think about Pitt didn't have a quarterback.
28:32 It's kind of like Texas Tech didn't really --
28:35 They lost their starting quarterback in that game.
28:37 You know, Dana, we've talked about, he's a great offensive mind.
28:41 He can see that.
28:42 He knows what to do, and he kind of exposed it a little bit.
28:45 Oklahoma was going to do what they were going to do anyway.
28:47 So, that's kind of like why -- you know, when you get towards --
28:50 if you look around college football, you can even look at, you know,
28:53 outside of Michigan, defense.
28:55 But if you look around college football, you know,
28:57 the scores kind of get higher and higher because there's more film.
29:00 There's more exposure.
29:02 People can see where the weaknesses are,
29:04 and if they're able to attack it, they will.
29:06 But just because, you know, the seam might be open,
29:08 do you have a tight end or a slot that can do anything with it?
29:12 So, I mean, that's just the difference.
29:14 Just because it's open doesn't mean you have a quarterback
29:16 that can make that throw or a receiver that can get into that space.
29:19 But some of the times, there's just times that, you know,
29:22 they went up against offenses that could,
29:24 and West Virginia couldn't really do anything about it.
29:27 So, I mean, there's been some good, some bad under Jordan Leslie.
29:34 What is the overall feeling from you in terms of Jordan Leslie?
29:41 Like, is he someone that can produce consistent defense,
29:46 or is there a lot of questions?
29:48 Because, like, to me, I'm more on the skeptical side,
29:52 because you look at the 2020 season, that was the year they were top ten,
29:57 top five in almost everything.
30:00 That was COVID year.
30:01 And I'm not saying -- I'm not trying to take it away from them
30:04 because everyone had the same situations,
30:06 but they didn't play a full season.
30:07 They didn't play the full schedule.
30:10 So, there were some differences in that year, I think, particularly.
30:15 Yeah, the biggest difference was NIL.
30:17 You keep losing all your defense, that's the problem.
30:20 So, it's just like the same with Neil Brown.
30:22 I'm not decided yet.
30:23 We haven't gotten to that point where we've retained players
30:26 and seen what we can do with them.
30:28 There really hasn't been a point where they've built the program up.
30:31 Like, if you keep losing guys because you weren't able to keep them
30:35 through NIL, then how can you judge somebody?
30:38 Like, you have to -- like, if you don't have --
30:41 if you're just plugging in players every year and you don't have the talent,
30:44 how can you -- you basically have to call everything perfect.
30:48 You almost have to know exactly what your opponent is going to do
30:50 every single point.
30:51 Well, that's what they get paid millions for, Chris.
30:53 Yeah, well, nobody's going to do that.
30:55 You know, Nick Saban, why he's so good is he's a good recruiter
30:57 and he's a good developer, right?
30:59 Yeah.
31:00 The funny thing is you'll hear people say,
31:02 "Well, if Nick Saban didn't have the talent, well, no shit."
31:05 Exactly.
31:08 If you don't have talent, you're not going to win.
31:10 You can look across the NFL, the guys aren't talented, they're not winning.
31:13 I just talked about, like, guys have to make plays, overcome mistakes,
31:16 and so forth.
31:18 Like, you have to have that.
31:20 So they had Beanie Bishop, they have some guys, they had Lee Coba,
31:24 they had that defensive line, but they -- in this day and age in football,
31:28 you really got to have 11 guys on the same page
31:30 and you got to have talent everywhere because, again,
31:32 when you get to Oklahoma State,
31:34 they're going to make you match up one-on-one.
31:36 They're going to spread the field in that zone, all of a sudden,
31:39 you can't shrink it down.
31:41 Like, there's going to be holes everywhere because they just go
31:43 from sideline to sideline.
31:45 So you got to get guys, you got to retain them.
31:47 They've done a good job recruiting.
31:50 It's just got to be able to keep them.
31:52 You got to develop that chemistry in the secondary.
31:54 And you're going in again another year where you're just replacing everybody.
31:59 Again, there's still some youth in the program,
32:03 but it's frustrating because these kids just aren't patient anymore.
32:07 And it's really hurting a lot of -- like, look around.
32:12 There's a lot of defense for them to defend the pass because they don't --
32:16 they can't keep anybody because all these kids want to think they're the next
32:19 whoever and they feel like they need to be playing now.
32:22 And that's why, like, look at Nico.
32:24 These kids are on the right path.
32:26 Like, he is exactly on the right path.
32:28 And you need more guys like this and you go down.
32:31 I know Mac Jones hasn't been a world beater in the NFL,
32:33 but he played one year in college and got drafted in the first round.
32:37 He abided his time.
32:40 He waited.
32:41 That's important.
32:42 Like, you shouldn't just want to go play.
32:44 You need to develop.
32:46 So, really, this defense, they got to find some retention
32:49 and just kind of develop these guys.
32:51 I'm just -- wait, I think Leslie does fine.
32:54 He's not going to be -- I don't know if he's going to be a great defensive
32:58 coordinator, but it's kind of hard to judge
33:00 when you just really haven't been able to keep a full roster for quite some time.
33:03 And anything about the portal,
33:05 that defense has just been ravished the last few years.
33:09 Like, it was -- like, look at Akeem Mesdua, Tyke Smith, Darryl Porter Jr.
33:15 Drayshon Miller.
33:18 Like, it's astounding how much they lost in the secondary after those first two
33:22 years when the portal opened up.
33:23 Like, Darryl Porter Jr. was still starting for Miami this year.
33:26 Drayshon Miller fell off the mat, but he was doing well here.
33:29 He was good in his system.
33:30 There's been a lot of guys in their system that played well.
33:32 They just left because they didn't have the trust.
33:35 So, wait and see.
33:37 I figure they're still going to lose defensive linemen because SEC will pay
33:40 big money for defensive linemen.
33:42 So that's going to be a continuous, I think.
33:44 It's good that they're so deep right now,
33:46 but it's good that they're finding that depth and continue to find gems.
33:50 I mean, look, Leslie went and found Akeem up in Canada.
33:53 He's a good talent.
33:56 He can find talent.
33:57 I mean, what worries me --
33:59 Look what Todd Day-Steels is doing in the NFL.
34:01 I mean, of course, he was here.
34:02 Those are producing guys.
34:05 The thing that worries me the most, I would probably say,
34:08 is obviously the corner situation.
34:10 I mean, that's obvious.
34:13 But I think it's more so you just had a season where you had a consensus
34:18 all-American at the position, and yet you really played a lot of zones still
34:23 and still leaned on it when you were struggling.
34:26 At some point,
34:28 they've got to be able to mix in some man coverage and play it enough at a
34:33 high level to where they don't present the same damn picture over and over
34:38 and over again.
34:39 To do that,
34:40 you've got to have a linebacker that can cover and you've got to have
34:42 safeties that can cover.
34:44 It's a three-level thing.
34:46 That's right.
34:47 That's what I'm saying.
34:48 It goes all the way around.
34:49 I agree.
34:50 I'm not saying it's a corner thing.
34:52 I just think it's a schematic thing.
34:54 They've got to get the right personnel in there because you can't --
34:58 okay, the Oklahoma game is a perfect example.
35:00 When you're getting carved up like that in the zone,
35:03 you've got to be able to -- I'm not saying the man's going to go to --
35:05 and I know Jordan said --
35:06 They played a lot of man in that game.
35:09 That's why they got burned a lot.
35:10 Right.
35:11 But the reason they got burned is because they didn't have the person up.
35:14 You know why Drake Stoops had a big game?
35:16 Go back and look who was covering him.
35:18 I know.
35:20 It was Aubrey Burks.
35:21 He was getting smoked.
35:23 And that's what I'm saying.
35:24 I know they played man in that game.
35:26 I know they played zone.
35:27 They literally threw the kitchen sink at Oklahoma.
35:29 But that's the exact example of what I'm talking about.
35:33 You've got to be able to have multiple schemes -- or not schemes,
35:37 but multiple looks.
35:39 Because if you don't,
35:40 you're going to see what happened in the Oklahoma game happen more often.
35:44 But it starts up front, goes to linebacker.
35:47 It's a whole three-level thing.
35:48 I get that.
35:49 So, I'm skeptical on that side of the ball for sure.
35:53 I'm not really concerned as much with the offense.
35:55 And, look, we're not trying to be Debbie Downers.
35:58 Like, this is a clearly much better football team than anyone probably
36:03 thought.
36:04 I mean, well, maybe other than you because you had them at eight and four.
36:06 But are they overachievers in 23?
36:12 Or are they right where they should have been?
36:14 Like, I have a hard time trying to figure that out.
36:16 Because when you bring in the schedule piece of this, yeah,
36:20 they didn't really play the toughest of schedules.
36:22 But at the same time,
36:23 it's a team that had struggled to win some of these close games,
36:26 like the TCU games, the Texas Tech game, even the Baylor game,
36:30 you can bring in there.
36:31 So, like, did they overachieve?
36:33 I think they did.
36:35 Yeah, if you're going with the national consensus, absolutely.
36:40 Like, everyone had them last in the Big 12, didn't give them a chance.
36:43 Gary Green was the worst quarterback in Power 5.
36:45 Like, go down the list of nonsense that was out there.
36:47 Even at eight and four, I thought they overachieved.
36:50 Because, again, go back to Penn State,
36:51 look how many injuries came out of the game.
36:53 Look how many injuries came out of the Pitt game.
36:54 Like, they overcame a lot of injuries and a lot of guys stepped up.
36:57 I know you're like, hey, look how bad they were against Oklahoma.
37:00 Like, yeah, like, that's the problem they've had.
37:03 Like, Darrell Porter still should be here.
37:05 Trae Sean Miller still should be here.
37:07 Like, they've had guys.
37:09 And it's not the first time.
37:10 You've had those guys in the program three or four years.
37:12 Like, it's a huge kill.
37:14 It's just a killer.
37:16 So, you know, now you're trying to get –
37:18 Jacobi Spillstone will be going in his third year.
37:20 We'll see what he's got.
37:21 Like, you've had to try to hit on so many kids young
37:24 because the rest of them left.
37:26 Like I said, to me it's just not fair to judge Leslie.
37:29 Like, he's done the best he can to try to hide a lot of things.
37:33 But when you go up against a team like Oklahoma, like I said,
37:36 they can just – they saw it and they just ran with it.
37:39 And when the offense couldn't keep up, it's kind of – it is what it is.
37:42 That's what you were kind of hoping for that game.
37:44 And Garrett didn't have it that night.
37:46 And it just happens.
37:47 That's just part of it.
37:49 Like, they're not Alabama and Georgia.
37:51 Maybe they'll get there.
37:52 But that's just – it's football.
37:54 You can go around all around the country
37:56 and a lot of people are going to say the exact same thing.
37:58 We were a little weak at this safety position.
38:01 We were a little weak on this linebacker position.
38:04 And come November, everyone picked on it.
38:06 And our offense couldn't overcome it.
38:08 That's just the way it is sometimes.
38:10 And it happens more often than not.
38:13 It's just – it's football.
38:15 So, hey, look, if they're going to consistently get 89 wins,
38:18 then have it – win the line of scrimmage on offense,
38:21 they're going to give them shots every so often to be a Big 12 contender.
38:26 To me, they're on the right path.
38:28 We'll just see.
38:29 Like, we haven't had the chance to see Neal Brown off a successful season.
38:34 Good point.
38:35 There's a lot – there's a lot of questions going into this season, again,
38:40 but more in a positive direction than, say, last year where it was like, well,
38:44 is Neal Brown going to be around by October?
38:48 There was a lot of craziness out there.
38:50 But it's just different this year.
38:54 So, why – I guess since we've been very skeptical of this,
38:59 and I think rightfully so, what are – what are your reasons for why there
39:06 should be some optimism?
39:07 Because mine is, like, I mean, it's the obvious.
39:10 You've got Garrett and Jaheim.
39:11 You've got all these guys coming back.
39:14 But we just ran through some of the question marks on the defensive side.
39:17 Like, is – how do you overcome that?
39:20 How do you overcome that side of the defense
39:22 and overcome a tougher schedule and have that optimism going into next year?
39:27 Like, what is the number one thing for you when you look at this team and you say,
39:32 yep, there's still a reason why I think they can win nine games?
39:35 I'll start off with this.
39:37 One more negative before I get positive.
39:39 You just can't get away from it.
39:41 I remember the losses last year.
39:43 They talked about, you know, they couldn't handle success, right?
39:46 Everyone talked them up after winning a few games,
39:49 and they couldn't handle success.
39:50 Everyone's going to be talking them up this all-off season.
39:52 So we'll see how they handle success, see what they've learned from that.
39:56 But I think my biggest optimism kind of stem from that is Garrett Green.
40:01 He's been such a great leader in the locker room, and he's a kid that just won't quit.
40:05 He's going to finish product.
40:07 So he's going to work hard.
40:09 He's going to work with those receivers.
40:11 And I think defensively they're building the right culture.
40:15 You're bringing a lot of talent there within that linebacker room.
40:19 So we've got to play a lot more games.
40:21 We haven't seen Josiah Trotter.
40:22 He's got to come back from injury.
40:24 But there's a lot of talent, a lot better talent than we had coming into this year.
40:30 So I think that's really what my optimism is.
40:32 And I've seen, you know, like Jaheim White when he had success.
40:37 That was a lot of Chad Scott.
40:39 Like if you were able to watch practice and how they coach
40:43 and how they teach the fundamentals with it to fit their scheme,
40:46 and when you see them implement those fundamentals in the field, it works.
40:52 Like every time.
40:53 So I think that's just where my trust kind of lies is that they've been able to build these kids
40:59 and add to their game every single year.
41:03 Like I said, a little curious about Jaheim.
41:05 He's more of a finished product than CJ obviously coming in as a running back.
41:10 He's going to have to get better in pass pro.
41:12 He's going to have to get better in a lot of areas for him to exceed.
41:15 But the kids that they have are hungry, and that's what gives me optimism.
41:19 They all want to work together.
41:20 Neil's talked about the culture's gotten better.
41:23 And you can see it.
41:24 You can feel it.
41:25 And they just want to win.
41:26 So there's a lot.
41:27 To me, there's a lot to -- just that alone, that's where my optimism is.
41:31 And you've got to -- everyone's bought in.
41:34 Everyone's willing to work together and find their role and just try to win some games.
41:38 Yeah, I mean, I would be right there with you on all of that.
41:42 I think this is a close-knit group, and you're finding some nice pieces here in the portal.
41:47 I mean, there's a lot of reasons for optimism.
41:49 So we're not trying to be like killing the mood here.
41:54 No, it's called reality.
41:56 It's called a reality.
41:57 Reality, right.
41:58 And I'm just saying, from a guy that has predicted the basketball
42:01 and the football records to a tee the last year --
42:04 Yeah, but we've got a long way to go for his actual predictions.
42:07 Yeah, exactly.
42:09 Well, next thing is going to be the baseball predictions.
42:11 If you hit that, then you hit the triple crown.
42:13 So I don't know what --
42:14 No, we're not -- I mean, baseball predictions, that's like --
42:16 That's a crap shoot.
42:18 Throwing in a dartboard a mile away.
42:22 Well, anyways, that will wrap it up for us here today and this week.
42:26 Obviously no shows on the weekends,
42:28 but we will have the post-game show for the West Virginia-Texas men's basketball game tomorrow.
42:34 I believe that one tips off at 6 o'clock; is that right?
42:38 So we'll have the fun of that.
42:42 Can't wait.
42:44 I feel bad for Alec and those kids, but whatever.
42:47 So we'll have that.
42:49 At least the kids get paid now.
42:51 Yeah, maybe that's the issue now.
42:54 Maybe that's the economy.
42:55 At least they get paid for taking the heat.
42:57 That's not the issue.
42:58 We've got a lot of basketball we can talk about later, but yeah.
43:01 Yeah.
43:02 So join us for that fun fest tomorrow here on Mountaineers Now.
43:07 There's a chance they can upset them.
43:09 There's a chance.
43:10 They can shoot 50% for one game and do something.
43:13 Come on.
43:14 It's going to happen at some point.
43:15 The law of averages.
43:16 I go back to it all the time.
43:18 It's got to come back your way at some point, right?
43:20 Yeah.
43:21 You would think.
43:22 But you can check us out on YouTube at Mountaineers Now.
43:26 Hit that subscribe button.
43:27 Give us a like.
43:28 Follow us on X, Twitter, whatever we're calling it this week at the same handle.
43:33 For Christopher Hall, I'm Skylar Cowen.
43:34 Thank you guys for watching this episode.
43:36 And these episodes this week in between the years.
43:39 We'll catch you guys here tomorrow night for the postgame show.
43:42 Take care.
43:44 Bye.
43:45 [Music]
43:47 [Music]
43:48 (upbeat music)
43:50 (upbeat music)