The Kent Politics Show - Friday 26th January 2024
Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Rob Bailey, joined this week by Labour's Kelly Grehan from Dartford and the Kent Messenger's senior editor for North West Kent, Matt Ramsden.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Welcome to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV.
00:27 I'm Rob Bailey.
00:29 And Kent's libraries are the places to go
00:31 for dramatic plot twists and intriguing mysteries.
00:34 And now the same could be said
00:35 of Kent County Council's library policy.
00:38 A week ago, KCC's deputy leader said
00:40 the county has far too many libraries
00:42 and that some could be closed to save money.
00:45 A few days later, a new statement said
00:47 KCC has no current plans to shut libraries.
00:51 Well, the plot thickens.
00:52 Gabriel Morris has chapter and verse.
00:55 - A small, tight-knit community.
00:58 At its center, the village library.
01:00 Why locals believe more than 60 people use this daily.
01:04 But could this service be under threat?
01:07 Last week, Kent County Council's deputy leader
01:11 made this remark.
01:13 - We have more libraries per head
01:16 than any other organization, local authority in the country.
01:20 We currently have 99 libraries.
01:22 We are looking at that and the administration
01:25 will bring a proposal forward sometime this year
01:28 to see where libraries can be sold.
01:32 - Today, the council has released a statement
01:34 emphasizing there are no current plans
01:39 but haven't ruled out future closures,
01:42 leading to petitions to save libraries across the county.
01:46 - I started it on Sunday.
01:47 Today is Tuesday and there are already 350 signatures
01:54 on that petition and it's building all the time.
01:57 So you can see how strongly people feel
02:01 about their library and why.
02:03 - It's at libraries where young people
02:05 often fall in love with books.
02:07 - Your child becomes a happy, confident, keen reader.
02:11 They could be getting through a book a week
02:12 or two books a week or five books a week
02:14 and families can't afford to be buying that amount of books.
02:17 I mean, it's brilliant.
02:18 That's what we want.
02:20 But families can't afford to be buying books
02:22 in that volume.
02:24 - And why is a rural community?
02:26 Many living here have mobility issues
02:28 or are reliant on public transport.
02:32 If the library closed, they'd have to turn to buses.
02:35 But last year, the number of services were reduced.
02:38 - All of us are old, very few of us drive
02:40 and it's essential that the library is open in Wye
02:44 because we use it to get our books every month.
02:47 There are several book clubs in Wye
02:48 and they also are dependent on the library.
02:52 If the library were to close,
02:54 our book club would have to close as well
02:56 because we would not be able to go to Ashford
02:58 every time to get the books.
03:00 - And it's particularly important that we keep it now
03:03 because we've lost so much public space.
03:06 So we are desperate for community space
03:08 and the library is our last hope for the village.
03:13 - These locals clearly love their libraries,
03:16 but it's no secret that KCC needs to save money.
03:22 - Well, joining me this week is Labour's Kelly Greene
03:24 from Dartford and the Kent Messenger's Senior Editor
03:27 for North West Kent, Matt Ramston.
03:29 Thank you for joining me.
03:30 - Hello. - Thanks for having us.
03:31 - Kelly, Peter Oakford said,
03:33 "There are far too many libraries in Kent."
03:36 Was he right?
03:37 - I think that phrase is quite appalling.
03:39 How can there possibly be too many libraries?
03:41 We know that lots of families are struggling for money.
03:43 We know there's very little things you can do
03:45 that are free left.
03:46 Libraries are one of the great sanctuaries of our community
03:48 and they help so many people,
03:50 children, older people, people looking for work.
03:52 I would like to see major investment in our libraries.
03:55 I accept it's not gonna happen in the current climate,
03:57 but the idea we should be losing some
03:59 is quite a terrifying prospect.
04:01 - There's been quite the backlash.
04:02 Obviously, politically, Labour and Liberal Democrats
04:04 immediately jumped on this.
04:06 But what have the readers of the Kent Messenger
04:08 been saying about this, Matt?
04:08 - Yeah, unhappy.
04:10 It's just another tear in the social fabric, isn't it?
04:11 Something else that's gone.
04:12 The banks have gone, the high streets are gone,
04:14 the post office are crooks.
04:16 Now the libraries are going.
04:17 Not happy.
04:18 - Yeah, and it is that kind of narrative, isn't it,
04:22 that there's been.
04:23 What kind of protection should there be then
04:25 for libraries to stop them being,
04:27 because they are obviously a discretionary service
04:30 in the sense that there is no legal obligation
04:32 for the council to provide them
04:33 in the way that there is for social care.
04:35 So should they be exposed like this to cuts?
04:38 - Well, I think that's a good point.
04:39 I think maybe there could be legal protections for libraries.
04:41 There's various places in every community
04:43 that are earmarked because of the way
04:45 they were given to communities for certain things.
04:47 Libraries don't tend to have those protections.
04:49 And I think that's a problem.
04:50 And I think without libraries,
04:52 we see a lot of other problems come about.
04:53 And I think the point you made, Matt,
04:54 about the social fabric is so important.
04:57 Now you go into a shop and you don't speak to anyone.
04:59 You can go days and days
05:00 without speaking to someone quite easily.
05:02 Libraries are a way to avoid that.
05:03 And I will really, really be very sad
05:06 to see them talked about as something we've got too many of.
05:08 - But dig into the politics of it a little bit, Matt.
05:10 I mean, obviously we saw there an announcement last week.
05:13 Five days later, there's a statement that comes out
05:15 saying currently there's no plans to close libraries.
05:19 We had just before Christmas,
05:20 Kent County Council proposing closing tips,
05:23 recycling centres across Kent, then reversing.
05:27 What do you make of this kind of pattern at the moment?
05:29 - I think, I mean, the libraries and the tips closing,
05:32 massively controversial.
05:33 But I think we need to be fair
05:34 and look at the situation they find themselves in.
05:37 I think the auditors say that they've got
05:40 a shortfall of 86 million quid.
05:42 I mean, they need to find money somewhere.
05:44 We can argue about why that is,
05:46 funding from central government being a major issue.
05:49 But where do they go?
05:51 I mean, they look at 99 libraries.
05:52 Some of them will be in rural areas,
05:54 which only get a few people visiting a week.
05:57 So is it not making sense to get rid of a building
06:00 that few people use?
06:02 - I mean, this is something I wanted to ask you about, Kelly,
06:04 'cause I was digging into the figures.
06:05 Kent County Council does publish figures on library usage.
06:08 And in your patch in Dartford, there are nine libraries,
06:11 the main library in Dartford and Town Centre,
06:14 and then eight branch libraries in smaller villages.
06:17 In total, only 12% of the population of Dartford
06:21 used the library last year.
06:22 And 152,000 visits were made to the main library in Dartford.
06:27 That costs £379,000 a year to run.
06:31 The other eight libraries combined received 56,000 visits,
06:35 but they cost almost the same amount between them to run,
06:37 £354,000.
06:39 The Tories are right to be looking at that spending,
06:42 aren't they?
06:43 - I think if you look at the situation with the library,
06:44 so I've got a library in my ward, Temple Hill Library,
06:46 which I would say is in quite poor condition.
06:48 It's not had any work done on it,
06:51 I would suggest, for decades.
06:53 Quite a lot of people think the library's already closed
06:55 down when I speak to them,
06:56 but there is a wealth of possibility within that library
06:58 that could be done with volunteers, little changes,
07:01 maybe some more bounce and rhyme time classes,
07:04 things like that that have been cut,
07:05 that could make a massive difference.
07:06 So I think people are going to the main library,
07:08 because that has still got some very good services.
07:10 There are things that could be done to support
07:12 our smaller libraries without great costs,
07:13 or indeed without any cost.
07:14 And I think this will make a massive difference.
07:16 And I would just say that those people
07:18 that go to the library,
07:18 we don't know how life-changing that is for them.
07:20 Some of those people are going to use the internet
07:22 to apply for jobs, or going to read newspapers
07:25 they otherwise wouldn't have access to.
07:26 I don't think we can dismiss that very easily.
07:29 - So I have to ask you, the question is,
07:31 it's very easy for Labour and the Liberal Democrats
07:34 at Kent County Council to come out and say,
07:35 these are the wrong cuts to make.
07:37 But you wouldn't deny that cuts have to be made,
07:41 as Matt's just said, 86 million pound budget deficit.
07:44 So where should they come from?
07:45 - Well, one of the things we've suggested a lot of times
07:47 is the Sessions House, the Kent County Council building,
07:50 which I believe is currently for sale.
07:52 We suggested for a long time that building should go.
07:54 It's underutilised.
07:55 There isn't a need for such a big council building
07:57 in the modern time.
07:58 I'll suggest we should be selling that,
08:00 or should have sold that a few years ago
08:01 before we got to this point with libraries.
08:03 We've also spoken a lot about the structure
08:05 of management at KCC.
08:06 We think there is quite a lot of changes
08:08 that could be made there.
08:09 I won't go into detail now,
08:10 because it was too long.
08:11 The budget we released last year was quite clear on that.
08:13 So we definitely think there's other things
08:15 that can be looked at.
08:16 - We've seen some activism from communities.
08:18 Matt, is this an issue that the Kent Messenger
08:19 is likely to campaign on, do you think?
08:21 - I think so.
08:22 On the back of this, we sent a reporter out
08:25 to spend time in two libraries this week.
08:27 We're gonna publish the story next week,
08:28 so I'm not gonna give too much away.
08:30 - No spoilers.
08:31 - Very interesting, very interesting response
08:33 from a very different experience
08:35 in the two different libraries.
08:36 - What do you make of it?
08:37 Obviously, it's a difficult narrative, isn't it?
08:38 We've heard time and time again
08:40 from the Conservative Cabinet at KCC
08:41 that they have to make tough decisions.
08:43 Obviously, tough decisions are difficult
08:45 to make by definition, aren't they?
08:46 That's why they keep hesitating over them,
08:49 with the tips, with the libraries.
08:51 Do you think they're getting the messaging right?
08:53 I mean, do you think there is a way
08:54 that they can convince people
08:55 that these cutbacks aren't necessary?
08:57 - Potentially, but I think Kelly touched on
09:01 a very important point there,
09:03 that there are other savings
09:04 that will appeal to the public more
09:06 than things that affect them directly,
09:08 like the tips are a major issue.
09:10 The libraries, that wasn't the detail of the libraries,
09:12 'cause the numbers of people using
09:14 the different libraries, I think,
09:15 but they don't seem too great with the messaging.
09:19 - Obviously, the other news this week,
09:21 coming at the same time as there is this back and forth
09:23 over whether or not to save money on the libraries,
09:25 was a big cash injection that Michael Gove
09:27 has given Kent County Council,
09:28 11 million pounds coming in.
09:30 Is that enough, and where do you think that might be used?
09:34 - My suspicion would be that it will be used on social care,
09:37 quite rightly, social care, and I would also say--
09:39 - Which is a huge black hole in the budget.
09:40 - Huge black hole.
09:41 There is a question mark over whether social care
09:43 now belongs in the council budget.
09:45 I think I would sympathise with
09:47 Councillor Oakford's views on that.
09:48 I don't think it is in the right place anymore.
09:50 We've also got this long wait for the HCPs.
09:53 I find most of my casework now is parents of children
09:56 who are being failed by the services.
09:57 I would imagine it will go towards them,
09:58 and hopefully so, because I think
10:00 that will be the right thing.
10:01 - Readers out there will hear big sums of money
10:04 being brought into the county, 11 million pounds here and there.
10:07 How do you think people want that money to be used?
10:10 - I'll just sort of pick you up on that point, Rob.
10:11 I mean, 11 million pounds isn't a lot of money.
10:13 - It's not a lot.
10:14 - When you're talking about a council the size of KCC,
10:18 it's nothing, you know, it's a token.
10:20 So, Adult and Children's Services,
10:23 it is a black hole beyond belief,
10:25 you know, that needs to be dealt with on a daily basis.
10:30 So, it's really important that it goes there,
10:32 and I think that the public would support that.
10:34 - So, Kelly, what happens next with the campaign
10:39 to save the libraries then?
10:40 I mean, are you personally involved in any of that?
10:42 - Not at the moment.
10:43 Obviously, this has only really broke
10:44 as an issue the last week.
10:46 The point made there about they haven't got any current plans
10:48 I think the word currently is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
10:51 Let's see where it goes.
10:52 I haven't had any reason to think that the library
10:55 in my ward is gonna close,
10:56 but I will certainly be talking to colleagues
10:58 and seeing how things are going in their areas,
11:00 and I'll certainly be fighting any plans
11:02 to cut any libraries within my area, should they come.
11:05 - Always a question about time scales with these things.
11:07 Peter Oakford said there will be a review sometime this year.
11:09 Do you expect that to come after the local elections
11:12 that are being held in some parts of Kent, do you think?
11:14 - I would think so.
11:15 I wouldn't think they'll be done any quicker than that.
11:16 There's also the business that we heard last year
11:18 about some libraries were gonna be turning
11:19 to shared spaces with things like children's centres.
11:22 So, that's somehow got to be put together.
11:23 So, we'll see how things work out,
11:25 but I will be keeping a very close eye on it.
11:27 - Brilliant.
11:28 Well, it's time for a short break then.
11:30 When we come back, we'll be talking about the health
11:32 of regional news and what it means for Kent
11:35 in an election year, including some exciting new developments
11:38 including a new political podcast
11:40 that's being launched by the Kent Messenger.
11:43 We'll also be talking about what's happening with the BBC
11:45 and why they've been told to be better neighbours
11:48 to local media.
11:49 Stay with us.
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15:05 - Welcome back to the Ken Politics Show live on KMTV.
15:13 Next tonight, what is the future of local news?
15:16 This week, the owner of the UK's biggest
15:18 regional news publisher, Reach,
15:20 warned that his print titles would be loss-making
15:22 within five years.
15:24 And the government warned the BBC
15:25 to avoid stealing the audience of commercial news websites.
15:29 Last year, the BBC made sweeping cuts to local radio
15:32 and boosted investment in regional news online.
15:35 Well, still here with me is Labour's Kelly Green
15:37 from Dartford and Kent Messenger's senior editor,
15:39 Matt Ramsden.
15:41 Welcome back.
15:42 Matt, obviously the editor, senior editor
15:44 for North West Kent and the Kent Messenger.
15:46 It was quite a stark warning that was given
15:49 by Jim Mullen from Reach this week.
15:51 They run newspapers all across the country.
15:53 He thinks that they will be losing money
15:55 and that the model for local news has generally been
15:57 that the money made by print titles
15:59 sustains the digital media and all the other things that go on.
16:03 Have you got similar concerns about what's happening?
16:05 I mean, we've been involved in a tsunami of change
16:10 for the last 15 years, the entire industry.
16:13 And obviously, we've got concerns as well
16:15 about where print is going.
16:17 But at the KM, we've done so much more than print.
16:21 We've got KMFM, the radio station.
16:23 We've got Kent Online, one of Britain's best websites.
16:26 Sixth most viewed this week, I think.
16:28 Yeah.
16:30 We've diversified massively.
16:32 So we're not completely reliant on print.
16:34 But the future of print is interesting
16:38 because if we get into the 2030s,
16:39 you can ask yourself how many newspapers are going to be left
16:42 because the cost to produce them is huge.
16:45 The number of people buying them isn't great.
16:48 And the people who want to advertise them
16:50 isn't great either because we've managed to bring them over
16:54 to online instead.
16:56 There might be an interesting ethical debate
16:58 to be had about the environmental future
17:00 of newspapers.
17:01 Maybe we can get into it in a while.
17:03 But Kelly, I mean, from your point of view as a politician,
17:07 it's an election year.
17:08 How important is a thriving local media
17:11 to someone like yourself?
17:12 I think it's vital.
17:13 I think the local newspapers do a really great job that's
17:15 very much unsung.
17:17 I check the local news website probably once or twice a day
17:20 most days.
17:21 It's really good for getting local messages out.
17:23 People do talk locally about the things
17:25 that they see on local newspapers, local newspaper
17:28 websites.
17:28 So I think it's a real worry that this vital service could
17:32 be lost.
17:33 So before we get any further, you
17:35 talk about diversification there.
17:37 And one of the reasons you're here tonight
17:38 is because there is a new podcast launching in Kent.
17:40 That's right.
17:41 Do you want to tell us a little bit about it?
17:42 Yeah.
17:43 So today we've launched the Kent Political Podcast,
17:46 which is available on Kent Online and on Google and Apple
17:50 Podcasts as well.
17:52 It brings together four of our best journalists,
17:54 our political journalists.
17:55 We've got local democracy reporters Simon Finlay,
17:58 Robert Boddy, and Dan Essin, who are
18:00 joined by our political editor Paul Francis.
18:03 And every week we're going to be covering
18:04 what's going on in KCC, Medway, the borough and district
18:09 councils.
18:10 And Paul will do a whole section on what's
18:12 going on in Westminster, his Westminster watch.
18:14 So that's going to be fantastic.
18:15 And we'll also have a special guest every week.
18:17 Start off this week was Dover MP Natalie Elphick,
18:21 who spoke about the small boats crisis.
18:23 Yes, obviously someone who's right
18:25 at the heart of some of the big political debates at the moment.
18:27 Do you know who else we're going to be
18:28 seeing over the next few weeks?
18:29 Yeah.
18:30 So already committed, we've got Neshaba Khan from Medway Labour,
18:34 Gordon Henderson, Sydenbourne MP, Vince Maple, Tracy Crouch.
18:40 Quite a few people already committed.
18:41 So we're looking forward to welcoming them all.
18:44 Excellent.
18:44 You mentioned local democracy reporters there,
18:46 which kind of brings us back towards some
18:48 of the kind of challenges and some
18:49 of the potential new directions that are being taken.
18:52 We've got to talk this week about the BBC, which
18:54 obviously part funds local democracy reporters,
18:58 being a bad neighbour to local press.
19:01 Having news websites, particularly,
19:03 that they're investing in more and more
19:05 that compete with Kent Online.
19:07 How much of the concern is that for local media?
19:10 It's a major concern.
19:11 I mean, the BBC has had a change of strategy
19:15 where they're moving on to what is traditionally
19:18 local publishers' territory.
19:21 And the problem we've got with that is they're
19:23 funded by the taxpayer.
19:24 We're reliant on being a business,
19:26 so we don't have that advantage.
19:28 And also, what they'll be doing is following up stories
19:31 that we've already broken.
19:32 It goes on the BBC website, and for reasons
19:35 that may be a bit boring, when they get rated on Google
19:39 and people search for stories, theirs will come top,
19:42 whereas ours will be further down the ratings.
19:44 And that's a bit galling when you put all the work
19:47 and resources into breaking the story in the first place.
19:49 So it's a major concern.
19:51 Obviously, the BBC would argue that the taxpayer,
19:54 the licence fee money that they take
19:57 is there to provide a free news service that
20:00 covers all communities across the UK,
20:01 and a website is part of that.
20:05 How would you balance that against your concern?
20:08 OK.
20:08 I mean, traditionally, the BBC have stayed off the ground
20:11 that we're talking about, and they've done a great job
20:13 with local radio.
20:15 They've pulled back from that now.
20:16 Massive cutbacks there, which has gone down very badly
20:19 with people across the country.
20:22 I don't think they need to get involved
20:24 in the community level stuff that we've
20:26 been doing for years.
20:27 It's a major threat to us, and it's not fair.
20:30 Kelly, this has become a political football, hasn't it?
20:33 I mean, there are people out there particularly accusing
20:35 the Conservative government of having
20:37 an agenda against the BBC.
20:40 That's kind of partly where these concerns have come from.
20:43 A government report that is telling Ofcom
20:46 to be harder on the BBC and to try and come down harder on it.
20:49 Where do Labour stand on this?
20:51 What would you be telling the BBC to do?
20:53 Well, I think all these accusations of BBC bias
20:55 are often quite without merit.
20:56 We saw some of the interview, car crash interviews this week,
20:59 where various politicians tried to talk about the BBC bias
21:02 and weren't able to think of examples.
21:03 So it's certainly not my experience
21:05 that the BBC deserve a lot of the flack that they get.
21:08 They're quite an easy football, I think, for people to kick.
21:11 I personally am very happy with a lot of the coverage
21:14 we get on the BBC.
21:15 I think it is fair.
21:16 And I praise the BBC for the great job
21:18 they do on local radio, that you've already mentioned.
21:20 I think it's a real asset to the community,
21:22 and again, keeps a lot of people informed
21:24 of things that are going on.
21:25 So quite a different view, I think,
21:26 we have than the Conservatives.
21:28 Would you want to see the BBC reined in, though,
21:31 in terms of how it's competing with commercial publishers,
21:34 like the KM Group?
21:35 Do you think that there should be limits on what the BBC can do?
21:38 No, I don't.
21:39 I think the BBC have always gone into lots
21:41 of different areas.
21:42 15 years ago, they didn't have a website.
21:44 They've now got one of the best children's websites
21:46 through the CBeebies website, things like that.
21:48 I think there's always room for different things.
21:50 And I think generally, people expect different things,
21:52 different types of coverage for the BBC
21:54 than perhaps they would from local news.
21:56 So I think things even themselves out.
21:57 Even themselves out.
21:59 I think you need to look at the consequences of what
22:02 you're suggesting.
22:03 I mean, not just publishers like ourselves.
22:05 There's lots more publishers across the country
22:08 who aren't in as good a place as we are.
22:10 And you're talking about them going bust,
22:12 and journalists who've served their communities for years
22:14 losing their jobs.
22:15 Do you still think that the BBC are right to be going into that?
22:18 Yeah, I think, as I said, there's room
22:20 for different types of things.
22:21 I mean, I think that if I look at the work KM does,
22:25 it's very, very on the ground.
22:26 I wouldn't expect the BBC, or I've ever
22:28 seen the BBC go down to that kind of minutiae level.
22:31 I think some of the bigger stories
22:33 have got more bigger reach, if you like.
22:36 I think they take them on.
22:37 I think it's an interesting point.
22:39 But the potential for this is that they do go down
22:42 to the level we're talking about.
22:43 And then that's going to cause problems
22:45 for publishers who don't have the advantage of billion pound
22:49 budgets from the licenced payor.
22:51 I think what you're talking about
22:51 is people stealing stories.
22:52 And I think there's an argument very clearly there
22:55 that if someone breaks a story, it's very frustrating
22:58 and perhaps immoral, I don't know,
22:59 for someone to take that story.
23:01 I think these things can work.
23:03 You could equally argue that a lot of the stories that
23:05 are covered in the paper are national stories.
23:07 I've seen many national stories then taken down
23:09 to a lower level, or a minute level, if you like,
23:13 in the local paper.
23:13 And I think they could argue that's a similar thing.
23:16 I'm not so sure.
23:17 And of course, what this all comes down to,
23:19 the real reason this is worth debating
23:21 is because it's about informing local electorates.
23:23 It's about the fact that this is an election year,
23:25 both locally in a lot of areas in Kent and nationally.
23:28 Eventually, we're going to get a national election.
23:30 And people are worried about getting reliable information,
23:33 aren't they?
23:33 Obviously, there's an awful lot happening in local news
23:36 at the moment.
23:36 New revenue streams opening up, new approaches to business.
23:39 Kent Online has recently started a premium tier
23:43 with content that's locked behind a paywall
23:44 for the first time.
23:46 Can you imagine that political content would ever
23:48 be paid for on Kent Online?
23:51 Potentially.
23:52 I mean, we never rule anything out.
23:54 But I think at this moment in time,
23:58 it's very important that all politics news is out there
24:01 so people can make informed decisions about what's
24:03 going on in their communities.
24:04 I wouldn't rule it out, but it's not
24:06 something that we're considering at the moment.
24:08 Because it's an interesting part of all of this, isn't it?
24:10 Obviously, until the internet came along,
24:12 the idea of having to pay for commercial news was just there.
24:15 You didn't expect to pick up newspapers,
24:17 every newspaper for free.
24:18 The internet has changed people's relationship
24:20 with information in that way, hasn't it?
24:22 That is a problem that all publishers around the world
24:25 have faced.
24:25 I mean, how to get that genie back in the bottle
24:27 that you've been giving away content for free for 20,
24:30 25 years.
24:31 People expect that now.
24:33 But the trick is that you're producing such good content
24:36 which is relevant to your readership
24:37 that they do want to pay for it.
24:39 They do want to subscribe.
24:41 OK.
24:41 The last part of the jigsaw puzzle
24:43 here in terms of people talking about newspapers
24:46 potentially having a shelf life and the move over to digital,
24:49 of course, is social media.
24:50 A lot of concerns at the moment about what
24:52 impacts social media, and particularly
24:54 AI-generated content on social media,
24:55 might have on elections this year.
24:57 You're very vocal on Twitter.
24:58 3,500 followers, I think.
25:00 Have I?
25:00 I haven't checked for as well.
25:01 Very, very well.
25:04 Is social media a place where people can find good information?
25:08 How's your relationship with that?
25:10 I think there's a big danger about information
25:12 on social media, particularly actually at the local level.
25:14 Often you'll see a post saying there's
25:16 been an accident of some description or an event.
25:18 And it turns out to be nothing like the truth.
25:20 And actually, locally, I know a lot of people say,
25:22 well, it's not appeared on KM yet,
25:24 so maybe that's not true.
25:25 So I think that's a vital actual service that's provided.
25:29 I'll be very frightened of people
25:30 being reliant on social media for their news content.
25:33 Which a lot of people are, of course.
25:35 Are you steeling yourself for a potential fake news
25:38 flood this year?
25:39 Do you think it's likely to happen?
25:40 We always verify what we see.
25:43 We always do our best to make sure
25:45 that we're not telling stuff that's fake news at all.
25:49 But there's a lot of it about.
25:50 And it's a good point that Kelly raises there,
25:53 because there's one time that there's
25:55 a story where someone had overblown
25:57 this incident massively.
25:59 And then we ran the proper story.
26:02 And someone commented, oh, you're spoiling our fun.
26:04 It was a better story on social media.
26:05 [LAUGHTER]
26:07 So I don't know how to take that, really.
26:09 So we're doing a thing to show, just
26:10 remind everyone, the podcast, available now on KM online.
26:13 Where else can they find it?
26:15 So if you go to im-listening.co.uk, it's there.
26:20 But it's also on Google Podcast, and Apple Podcast,
26:23 and Spotify.
26:24 Brilliant.
26:24 That's all from us here at the KM Politics Show tonight.
26:27 Thank you to both of my guests for coming into the studio.
26:30 There's more political news, analysis, and opinion
26:32 at Kent Online under the Politics tab,
26:35 including news about that podcast.
26:38 Stay with us, because Kent Tonight
26:40 is coming up next with all the latest
26:42 news from around the county.
26:43 Have a great evening.
26:44 Good luck to Maidstone United tomorrow.
26:46 Good night.
26:46 Good evening.
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