NHRA's Brian Lohnes & HOT ROD Magazine's John McGann chat with former editor of HOT ROD Magazine & Car Craft - Jeff Smith! Known for his decades long tenure as the Editor of both HOT ROD Magazine & Car Craft
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00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Hey, everybody.
00:07 It's Brian Lowens, lead broadcaster for the NHRA.
00:09 It's John McGann, the editor-in-chief
00:11 of Hot Rod magazine.
00:12 Another episode of the Hot Rod Pod, Where It All Began.
00:15 We're at the PRI show for this episode,
00:17 Performance Racing Industry Show in Indianapolis, John.
00:20 And we're sitting down with a guy
00:21 that you're very familiar with.
00:22 A lot of our viewers are, former Hot Rod editor and man
00:25 about town, Jeff Smith.
00:26 Right.
00:27 Jeff Smith was tech editor at CarCraft
00:30 when I first got hired onto the magazines.
00:31 I'd been working for three years for the company prior to that,
00:34 but got hired as a staff editor, the lowly guy.
00:39 Lowest guy in a job, yeah.
00:40 And Jeff told me, get your track shoes on.
00:43 We're going to be real busy.
00:44 And I was with CarCraft for 12 years,
00:47 worked with Jeff for most of that time.
00:49 And mentor of mine, just a great dude,
00:53 lots of cool stories to tell.
00:55 And former editor of CarCraft initially,
00:58 Hot Rod, Chevy High Performance.
01:01 Just been with the company for a long time.
01:03 Basically the guy that founded the pro touring movement,
01:05 a guy that was on the forefront of the fastest street car
01:07 movement.
01:08 Jeff Smith, the subject of this episode of the Hot Rod Pod.
01:11 Enjoy.
01:11 And this guy, Jeff Smith, is our guest this episode.
01:15 Jeff has a decades long tenure as an editor
01:17 at both Hot Rod magazine and CarCraft.
01:19 He has stories for days, and he is still
01:21 building motors and living in a cornfield in Iowa.
01:24 That's right.
01:24 That's right.
01:25 They just-- there's 10 acres outside my house,
01:29 and they just harvested it.
01:31 And he told me they got their best yield ever, right?
01:34 And my son says, well, you should charge more money.
01:37 I went, you don't understand how this works.
01:39 He makes me look like I know what I'm doing.
01:41 So I don't care.
01:44 Because it looks really good, right?
01:46 Corn was like 10 feet high.
01:48 It's always-- it's a good thing.
01:49 When the farmer is happy, I think everybody's happy.
01:52 That's right.
01:52 That's right.
01:53 I was jealous of your new place, Jeff,
01:54 because you said you have heated floors in your shop.
01:57 I just added-- so I bought a house with a shop attached,
02:00 or a shop with a house attached.
02:02 And that's why I bought it, right?
02:04 And how many years-- before you go down to this,
02:06 how many years did you live in Southern California?
02:07 40.
02:08 OK, so now continue.
02:09 So I lived there-- was originally from Iowa,
02:12 went out to California in 1979, and Rick Vogelin
02:16 hired me at CarCraft magazine as a wet behind the ears.
02:19 And it was so funny.
02:20 They gave me-- went down to the photo lab,
02:23 and they give you a brick of film, and introduce yourself,
02:25 and they tell you the procedures and everything.
02:27 And Jane Barrett was at the library, right?
02:31 And she says, Jeff Smith, I don't recognize your name.
02:34 So where were you before this?
02:35 I said, a gas station in Ames, Iowa.
02:38 And literally, that was my prior job,
02:40 was a gas station in Ames, Iowa.
02:42 And Rick Vogelin hired me in '79,
02:44 and that was the beginning of it all right there.
02:47 It's a gutsy move.
02:48 I mean, it's a gutsy move for any kid
02:49 to make to move across the country.
02:51 But I want to know more about that particular process.
02:53 So when did you decide to just load up your stuff?
02:55 I mean, do you send a letter and say, hey, Mr. Vogelin,
02:57 I'd like to meet you?
02:58 So we could take up the whole podcast just with this story,
03:01 so I'll make it really, really short.
03:02 So my best friend in college, Don Young, my roommate
03:05 several times, got a job working for Chrysler.
03:08 And within-- just how smart this guy is-- within six months,
03:11 he was invited to be in the race group, right?
03:14 Brand new wet behind the ears engineer,
03:16 invite him in as their suspension guy.
03:19 So through him, I met Larry Shepard.
03:23 So I said-- and I was still in school.
03:25 He had graduated.
03:26 I still had one quarter to go.
03:28 I was a fifth year senior.
03:28 So I said, hey, I'll bring your girlfriend out with me.
03:31 Along with my girlfriend, we'll come visit you.
03:33 Can you set up a meeting with me with Larry Shepard?
03:35 So I meet with Larry Shepard.
03:37 He tries to talk me out of going to Car Craft.
03:39 Because I said, Car Craft's where I want to work.
03:41 And he goes, it'll never work.
03:42 Don't do it.
03:43 Never?
03:43 Never.
03:44 Never work.
03:45 So I, of course, didn't listen.
03:47 And then about two months later, Al Kirschenbaum
03:53 was leaving Car Craft to go to Hot Rod.
03:55 And at this time, there were maybe five or six people
03:58 that knew about it, right?
03:59 And Shep was one of them, because Kirschenbaum
04:01 was tight with Larry Shepard.
04:03 So Don calls me and says, hey, I hear
04:06 that there's an opening at Car Craft.
04:07 And he told me the story.
04:08 So I immediately called the magazine,
04:11 tried to get a hold of Rick.
04:12 He wasn't there.
04:13 But Kirschenbaum was there.
04:15 And Kirschenbaum usually worked from home.
04:17 It was just surreptitious.
04:19 It was just all the moons and stars aligned.
04:21 So he took my call from some yokel in Ames, Iowa.
04:26 So I called him up and I said, I understand.
04:28 My name's Jeff Smith.
04:29 And I'm just a reader.
04:29 You don't know me.
04:30 But I understand that you're leaving to go to Hot Rod.
04:33 And there's a position open.
04:34 I'd like to apply for it.
04:35 And there was silence within the phone.
04:38 I mean, like five seconds, right?
04:39 I went, hello?
04:42 He goes, who is this?
04:44 And I went, uh-oh.
04:47 Just a guy.
04:47 And he goes, no, no, no.
04:49 Who is this?
04:49 There's four or five people in the world
04:52 that know that I'm going.
04:53 Because it hadn't been signed off yet, right?
04:56 Publishers have to-- publishers have to talk and agree.
04:58 And OK, so all kinds of behind the deals.
05:02 Here's some kid from Iowa calling him up.
05:04 He goes, who are you?
05:05 And I finally said, well, he said, how do you know this?
05:08 And I said, well, Larry Shepard told me.
05:10 And he goes, oh, you know Shep?
05:12 I went, no, I'm not dropping names, man.
05:13 It's a friend of a friend of a friend kind of thing.
05:16 But that's how it all started.
05:17 And then I waited, of course, for Peterson
05:20 to send me a first class ticket on an airplane
05:22 to fly out to California for an interview.
05:24 That didn't happen.
05:26 So finally, I called Rick.
05:28 And I said, how about if I just come out?
05:30 I want to see the Winter Nationals.
05:31 Oh, yeah, yeah.
05:32 Come on out.
05:32 And I'm thinking, I'm going to live under a freeway
05:35 or something until you hire me.
05:36 And it took him four months to hire me.
05:38 So I was staying-- my dad lived in San Diego.
05:39 So I had a place to stay.
05:40 So I was like Dustin Hoffman in "The Graduate," right?
05:44 Sitting down at my dad's pool, just graduated college.
05:47 Don't have-- the only thing I don't have is Mrs. Robinson.
05:50 That's the only thing I did then.
05:51 But four months.
05:53 And every day, I'm thinking, I should just pack it in.
05:56 I mean, my dad would come home and go, did they tell you no?
05:59 I go, well, no.
06:00 He said, well, then hang in there.
06:01 Hang in there.
06:01 And I would make up excuses to go to LA
06:03 to go and just walk into the company or the magazine
06:06 and say, hey, I'm here.
06:07 Made a decision yet, you know?
06:09 I'd like to hand over this subscription card to you.
06:12 And he finally did.
06:13 And you know who was up for the-- it came down to two of us.
06:16 You know who the other guy was?
06:17 Cam Bente.
06:18 Oh, wow.
06:19 No way.
06:19 Wow.
06:19 We didn't find that out until maybe two years later.
06:21 OK.
06:22 We were comparing notes one day.
06:22 And I went--
06:23 You were the other guy.
06:24 You-- Cam says, you beat me out for the job.
06:27 And Cam did get hired eventually.
06:29 Eventually did.
06:30 And followed me as "Car Craft" editor
06:32 after I went out to Hot Rod in '87.
06:36 That's very cool.
06:37 Yeah.
06:37 Yeah.
06:38 Yeah.
06:38 Oh, sorry.
06:39 You drove here.
06:40 Then you drove to Los Angeles here.
06:42 Yeah, from Los Angeles.
06:43 Drove my '66 Chevelle--
06:44 That's right.
06:45 --with a small block.
06:45 Because I'd already blown the big block up.
06:47 So drove it out there in '23.
06:50 And then had to come home and drag all the rest of my stuff.
06:54 So I came home and rented a U-Haul truck
06:58 and flat-towed my '55 to California--
07:01 Wow.
07:01 --behind a U-Haul truck.
07:02 I couldn't see it.
07:04 I couldn't see it because it was narrower than the truck.
07:06 And so all I could see was the shadow on the road.
07:08 So it's still attached.
07:10 Yeah.
07:10 Yep.
07:11 Yep.
07:12 You know, I think when we look at--
07:14 because your tenure as editor of "Car Craft" was '84 to '87?
07:18 Correct.
07:19 Yeah.
07:19 What was the-- to me, or to you, I should say,
07:23 in that '84 to '87 time frame, did you make every mistake
07:27 as far as--
07:27 Oh.
07:28 Yeah.
07:28 Oh, my god.
07:30 Another good story.
07:31 So I'd been editor for not-- oh, maybe a month or two,
07:35 something like that.
07:35 And then the Winter Nationals.
07:37 So I run into Rick Vogelin at the track.
07:39 We're walking.
07:40 It was Saturday night or something like that.
07:42 And had a hotel room, you know.
07:44 So I'm walking toward-- and I--
07:45 so I see Rick, and we're talking for a little bit.
07:48 He says, oh, how is it being editor?
07:49 And I said, if it's anything like last night,
07:52 I don't know if I can do this.
07:53 He goes, what are you talking about?
07:54 And I said, I woke up in the middle of the night,
07:57 I mean, cold sweat.
08:00 The nightmare was that some guy at the press
08:04 was calling me from Crossroads Press and said,
08:08 the entire book is in Greek.
08:12 And I was like--
08:13 and I woke up.
08:14 My wife goes, you OK?
08:16 No, I was sweating.
08:18 I was scared to death.
08:19 And he just looked at me and said,
08:21 so what makes you think you're the only one
08:23 that's had that happen?
08:24 And I went, you're kidding me.
08:25 And he goes, it's like the old time World War II movies,
08:28 right, where the private looks at the sergeant and goes,
08:33 you're not scared.
08:35 And he goes, well, yeah, I am.
08:36 Not you, not Sergeant Rock.
08:40 So it was just exactly-- that's what went through my head
08:42 when he said that.
08:43 But it made me feel so much better.
08:46 And we talk all the time now.
08:48 And Rick is also the guy who gave me the great line
08:51 that I gave to you.
08:54 Doctors bury their mistakes, and we publish ours.
08:56 [LAUGHTER]
08:59 And it happens all the time, right?
09:00 It does.
09:01 Absolutely does.
09:03 Yep, yep.
09:04 I remember one time--
09:07 Doctors bury their mistakes.
09:09 That's a great one.
09:10 We publish ours.
09:11 You know, which is like-- and that's the--
09:13 but that's the truth.
09:13 It's the absolute truth.
09:14 It's so much easier now with digital,
09:16 because it's like, oh, I screwed up.
09:17 Can you fix that?
09:18 And it's like, boop.
09:19 Yeah, from my phone.
09:20 From my phone, I can fix it.
09:22 So but in print, man, you live with it forever.
09:25 So in one of my very first stories, I made a mistake.
09:28 It was a tech story.
09:29 I made some kind of a mistake.
09:31 I made an assumption that I didn't research it.
09:33 And the readers wrote in and go, you're an idiot.
09:36 And Rick called me in and said, oh, well, I expected this.
09:40 So just I didn't expect it in the first issue, but oh, well.
09:45 And it was like, man.
09:46 And that was before the internet.
09:48 So I mean, you had to just-- and your research material
09:51 wasn't necessarily accurate either.
09:53 That's true.
09:54 So I learned to triplicate my--
09:57 not duplicate, but triplicate my information
09:59 to make sure it was correct.
10:00 Oh, thank God for the internet.
10:03 Much easier now.
10:05 Yeah, before you left, if you were still,
10:07 you'd get all the paper copies of the catalogs and stuff
10:10 from these trade shows.
10:11 And I agree with you.
10:12 Yeah, because it's nice to have something to flip through.
10:15 Try to search things online, and you don't know if it's true,
10:18 if it's not.
10:20 Or just call.
10:21 And that's where my relationship with Jim McFarlane started,
10:23 because I started calling him every day with tech questions.
10:26 Hey, Jim.
10:27 Hey, Jim.
10:27 Hey, Jim.
10:28 Start disguising your voice.
10:30 And so he would just say, save them up and bring them down
10:32 on Fridays.
10:33 So we started something I called the Edelbrock Friday
10:36 Afternoon Club.
10:37 And I'd go down there Friday afternoons, and sometimes
10:39 till 7, 8, 9 o'clock at night, we'd be up in his office.
10:43 No one else in the business companies there except us.
10:45 And it was just really, really special.
10:48 He just recently passed away.
10:50 I mean, he was my mentor.
10:51 He was the guy--
10:52 I've saved all the letters that he sent me over the years,
10:56 you know, encouragement and things like that.
10:57 Just an absolutely wonderful guy.
11:00 One quick McFarlane story.
11:01 Yeah, go for it.
11:02 So Diana brings me in as the editor of Hot Rod magazine.
11:07 And I accept the position.
11:08 Then he looks at me and goes, OK,
11:10 you've got four months to get ready for the 40th anniversary
11:12 issue.
11:13 Four months?
11:15 Call, thanks for nothing.
11:17 So we put it all together.
11:19 And I thought, I need some way to lead it off.
11:21 And I thought, oh, I'll use that picture of Mr. Peterson,
11:23 taking the picture with the speed graphic.
11:25 And I had it colorized.
11:27 And I thought, this is so cool.
11:28 This is really-- this is great.
11:30 And all of a sudden, I realized, I
11:32 wonder what McFarlane did on the 20th, 1968.
11:35 Opened it up, and it was the exact same thing.
11:37 There it is.
11:39 So I called him up, and I said, I really apologize.
11:42 I didn't know.
11:44 Because if I had known you had done this, I wouldn't do it.
11:47 And I said, I didn't plagiarize you.
11:49 I just didn't know.
11:50 And he goes, no, it's fine.
11:51 He got a great laugh out of it.
11:52 But the intro, read very similar.
11:55 It was scary.
11:56 That is pretty wild.
11:58 One story I think you can shed light on
12:00 that I've only read, a Jim McFarlane story involving
12:03 the illegally massive engine they put in that '67 Camaro.
12:07 This, to me, is like one of the great, cool '60s magazine
12:10 guy stories of all time.
12:12 They blew up the 396 that was in the Camaro.
12:14 And so Bill Thomas gave him another big block.
12:17 But it wasn't the 396.
12:19 It was a 496.
12:21 And they went and rented the Winter Nationals.
12:23 They rented the Winter Nationals.
12:24 And it was just for exhibition.
12:26 But they had to enter a class.
12:27 Modified production, I think.
12:29 Something like that, yeah.
12:29 Probably A, modified production.
12:31 Maybe B. I don't remember.
12:32 And they had to run against Jenkins.
12:34 And Jenkins red-lighted against them.
12:36 It was like, and he went up to the tower and said,
12:38 you know, can we rescind this thing?
12:41 And the Chrysler guys go, no, absolutely not.
12:43 Because they followed him upstairs and said, no.
12:45 We want Jenkins out.
12:46 [LAUGHTER]
12:47 Yeah.
12:48 Yeah, you can't-- no, no, no.
12:50 I'll just give up.
12:50 And he can come back in.
12:51 No, no, no, no, no.
12:52 This is not going to work.
12:53 No way.
12:54 No way.
12:55 Yeah, I always love that story of Bill Thomas.
12:57 Yeah, yeah, just use this one.
12:58 Oh, wow.
12:59 Really looks a rocket.
13:01 Really woke her up.
13:02 It's 100 cubic inches bigger.
13:04 Yeah.
13:05 And make a difference.
13:07 And Jim said he told me he went to Thomas.
13:10 He said, well, you wanted to win, didn't you?
13:13 OK, you can put it that way.
13:16 Great stuff.
13:17 I mean, you know, just wonderful stuff.
13:20 The mid '80s, and now this is something that's come back.
13:22 Obviously, like, the roaring following is Pro Street.
13:26 I want to talk about that.
13:27 Because '84 to '87, I'm not saying that was peak,
13:30 but it was like, that was a train that had a rocket.
13:32 That was going forward.
13:33 Yeah, oh, yeah.
13:34 And so there was--
13:37 a guy did a book where he looked at how many pages of Pro Street
13:42 stuff that the magazines did.
13:44 And I apologize, I can't remember his name.
13:48 But it's a great book.
13:50 And it was like, I was at the top of the sheet for Pro Street.
13:53 I mean, it was like, every cover, every month
13:56 was Pro Street this, Pro Street that,
13:58 and blah, blah, blah, you know?
13:59 Which then drove, eventually, even back at CarCraft,
14:03 we started the Real Street Eliminator
14:05 to try and get away from it.
14:06 It was like, this needs to be the next new thing,
14:09 which it turned out to be somewhat popular, I think.
14:12 It was.
14:12 And you get credited for coining the phrase,
14:16 or coining the term, pro touring, you and Mark Steele.
14:18 Well, Steele did.
14:19 Steele did.
14:20 Because it was a trip on Hot Rod Power Tour.
14:23 Yes.
14:23 And we're in his Camaro.
14:24 And we're talking back and forth.
14:25 And he's pushing this thing, right?
14:27 I'm on board.
14:29 I'm making my Chevelle handle, all that good stuff.
14:31 And I said, but if this is going to happen, we need to--
14:35 it needs a term, like Pro Street.
14:37 That's what it needs.
14:38 And so then we got on to other things.
14:39 And I totally forgot about the conversation.
14:41 Like, two weeks later, he calls me up and goes,
14:42 I got the term.
14:43 I go, what are you talking about?
14:45 I'm at Chevy High now.
14:46 And he goes, remember that thing we talked about with my Camaro
14:51 and stuff that needs a term?
14:52 And I went, yeah.
14:53 He goes, Pro Touring.
14:54 I went, oh, dude.
14:56 That's it.
14:57 He says, you can have it.
14:58 And the hard part was selling it to the company
15:01 to put it on more than one cover.
15:03 I put it on the cover, and it didn't necessarily do very well.
15:05 And they said, we don't ever do this again.
15:06 I go, no, you don't understand.
15:09 This is already on fire.
15:11 You just don't know it.
15:13 The combustion process has already started.
15:15 And the cylinder pressure is just going to keep growing.
15:17 And you need to ride this wave.
15:19 And then we made that little logo.
15:20 Right.
15:20 I was just going to say that.
15:21 You had a logo for it.
15:22 You gave it the platform that made it what it is
15:26 and what it's become.
15:27 And then PHR didn't want to follow.
15:29 G-Machine.
15:30 G-Machine.
15:30 See, you did.
15:31 You just totally traded me on that.
15:33 Because I was going to say, I was going to bring this up
15:35 and that there was this kind of low level
15:38 kind of war about the terminology on this thing.
15:40 Because they didn't want to--
15:41 Damn it.
15:41 You just totally stole the thunder out of them.
15:43 That sucks.
15:45 Because they didn't want to follow it.
15:47 And it was too good an idea not to.
15:49 It was.
15:49 So I would have done the same thing.
15:51 So it was like it worked.
15:52 Yeah.
15:53 But that's where it came from.
15:54 That's where it came from.
15:55 It's pretty neat.
15:56 Would you consider the Real Street Eliminator deal
16:00 the first kind of one of these contests, which we now
16:03 know as Drag Week.
16:04 We now know as the Cars and Cones.
16:06 We know it was all these trips.
16:08 Do you kind of place that as one of the first of these ideas
16:10 to take--
16:11 to kind of reset the typewriter carriage and go, OK, listen.
16:14 This is what a real car is.
16:15 Yeah.
16:15 I think so.
16:16 I think so.
16:17 And Rick Vogelin and I came up with the rules for that.
16:21 I was riding with him to SEMA.
16:23 And in his little--
16:25 what was it?
16:28 Like, front wheel drive wagon.
16:30 What was front wheel drive wagon?
16:31 What was that back in the '80s?
16:32 Celebrity.
16:33 Yeah, it's like a celebrity wagon.
16:34 Celebrity wagon.
16:35 And I'm sitting right seat.
16:37 And I'm writing out--
16:38 and he's helping me with the rules.
16:40 So we wrote the rules on the way to SEMA.
16:43 That's very cool.
16:43 Because he came down to LA for something.
16:44 And he goes, you want to ride with me?
16:46 And I was like, well, we'll share a room.
16:47 He's like, yeah.
16:48 Yeah, that's great.
16:49 So that's where it came from.
16:50 And the initial one was very complex.
16:55 And we had numbers.
16:56 Because we even had value placed on the vehicle.
16:59 So the less money you spent on it--
17:03 you could look at it and go, yeah, that's a $20,000 car.
17:08 And that's a $5,000 car.
17:09 So you get points because your car
17:11 is competitive against this guy that spent four times or 10
17:14 times the money.
17:15 But it became too difficult to--
17:17 How do you quantify that?
17:20 But yeah, that was--
17:21 I remember one time I did one year--
17:23 only one year because it was so painful.
17:27 But Optima event, judging, right?
17:30 And they introduced me as the father of pro touring.
17:33 I was like, well, you know.
17:35 There were a lot of people involved with it.
17:37 It wasn't just me.
17:37 Because everybody thinks that magazines
17:39 establish these trends.
17:41 And that's not the truth at all.
17:43 But where we are and the circles that we travel in,
17:47 we see things very early on.
17:50 And so if you're smart enough to pick up on it,
17:53 then you can ride that wave.
17:56 And people will think, oh, well, you made that happen.
17:58 It's like, no, it was going to happen anyway.
18:01 We just picked it out soon enough.
18:04 And that was the key.
18:04 That was your job, was to see trends
18:06 before they become trends.
18:08 That's all it really is.
18:09 So you just have to keep your eyes open.
18:12 And it didn't hurt that that was exactly what I wanted to do
18:14 with the stuff that I was doing.
18:16 So it was wonderful.
18:17 But that doesn't always work.
18:18 Because I've tried to push autocrossing
18:20 in the magazine in Hot Rod, and it didn't fly at all.
18:22 People just weren't interested in it.
18:23 So it's like, OK.
18:24 You learn you can't push something
18:26 if the readers aren't interested in it.
18:28 You can't force it down their throat.
18:29 Which is kind of weird to me, on the autocrossing front,
18:32 because autocrossing is, in effect, the same accessibility
18:35 as test and tune drag racing.
18:36 Anybody can do it.
18:38 That seems like one of those foundational things that
18:40 would interest a lot of different people,
18:42 showcasing a lot of different styles of cars.
18:45 It just seems like one of those things
18:46 that people would naturally gravitate to.
18:48 But you're right.
18:48 It is, as compared to even in the regular world,
18:51 it's kind of a niche as compared to even a test
18:53 and tune out of drag strip.
18:54 Yeah.
18:54 And I was interested in it.
18:57 And it involves quite a bit of skill in driving.
19:00 So the earliest events with Real Street Eliminator,
19:04 I drove all the cars to eliminate the variability
19:06 of the driver.
19:06 Oh, wow.
19:07 Yeah.
19:08 Which was hard to get people to bring their car
19:10 and then let me wail on it.
19:11 Yeah.
19:12 Right.
19:12 Right.
19:14 And the first year we did, the very first year I
19:16 used Bob Melhoff's '56 Chevy.
19:20 And I told him, I said, you're going
19:21 to get your head handed to you in this thing,
19:23 but it'll be fun.
19:24 And he goes, yeah, sure.
19:24 Let's do it.
19:25 And I said, I have to drive it.
19:26 He goes, OK.
19:27 And bench seat on autocross in a '56 Chevy.
19:30 Oh, yeah.
19:30 [LAUGHTER]
19:31 And the hardest part was staying in the seat.
19:34 That was the hardest part of the whole thing.
19:36 So much fun.
19:37 So much fun.
19:38 Was there a road course element, or was it just autocross?
19:40 We just did the autocross because we-- nope.
19:43 Car Craft didn't have the budget to rent Willow Springs.
19:46 [LAUGHTER]
19:48 And I could just see myself going down the front straight
19:50 away in Willow Springs, going into turn one,
19:52 the brakes not working.
19:53 Right?
19:53 And just flying off the other tracks.
19:54 I was like, no.
19:56 No, we don't want to do that.
19:57 We don't want to do that.
19:58 To me, one of the all-time cars that came out of that program
20:00 was Jeff Schwartz when he built the Cadillac.
20:02 Oh, yes.
20:02 Yeah.
20:03 And I believe he has that car back.
20:05 I don't know.
20:05 My understanding is that he actually owns that car again
20:09 and is going to put it back to its former glory.
20:11 But was that Cadillac-- when you saw a car like that,
20:13 which obviously, Jeff's an incredibly talented guy
20:16 and kind of next level-- when you saw stuff like that
20:19 start to show up, was that a point of pride?
20:21 Or was that a point of like, uh-oh,
20:22 people may be taking this a little bit too seriously?
20:24 That's a good question.
20:25 Well, it has to.
20:27 Just like fastest street car, it turned into race cars
20:30 with street tires.
20:32 And so it was like, it's inevitable
20:35 that's going to happen.
20:36 It's like, I just look at some ultimate cars
20:38 here at the show, because I haven't been to an event
20:41 in several years.
20:41 And it was like, man.
20:43 It's insane.
20:44 It is.
20:45 It's insane.
20:46 And it's the same exact thing.
20:47 They're race cars on the street.
20:49 And mildly disguised-- they're race cars
20:52 with stereos and nice interiors.
20:55 But they're race cars.
20:56 And it's like-- because I actually
20:59 competed in one year one time.
21:00 They actually invited me.
21:02 I didn't do very well at all.
21:03 But it was fun.
21:04 My goal was top 15.
21:06 And on the braking test, if they had given it to me,
21:10 I touched the cone.
21:12 I touched the cone.
21:13 And the guy went, oh.
21:14 And that would have put me in the top 15.
21:16 But now, that car is just so horribly dated
21:20 that it wouldn't--
21:22 Is this your Chevelle you're talking about?
21:23 My Chevelle, yeah, my '65.
21:25 I just bought an LS7 for it from my friends at Skagen Dickey.
21:29 And we're going to put an aluminum 427 in it.
21:31 But I can't work on it, because all my daily driver stuff just
21:35 falls apart.
21:37 I'm rebuilding the engine in my son's Tahoe.
21:40 And we bought him a little four-cylinder S10.
21:42 And that blue engine blew up.
21:43 So I rebuilt it.
21:44 And we blew it up again.
21:45 I was like, I popped the head gasket.
21:48 I can't work on my hot rods, because I'm too busy fixing
21:50 stuff I do every day.
21:51 I was hearing this from you 10 years ago.
21:54 It hasn't changed.
21:55 And Will Hadsall yells at me every time we talk about it.
21:58 There's come a point where I'm not going to talk to you
21:59 about this anymore.
22:00 Because you know what you need to do.
22:02 Just go buy a new car and just dump all this old crap.
22:05 But I can't do it.
22:06 It's hard to do.
22:07 It is.
22:07 It is.
22:08 So you're keeping my truck alive.
22:11 It now has 400,000 miles on it, doesn't it?
22:15 414,000 miles.
22:15 414,000 miles.
22:17 That is insane.
22:19 I bought it at 203.
22:20 It was a run to the litter from Caltrans in 2003.
22:25 And so I bought this thing for $2,200, whatever it was.
22:29 And this fun story, stand in line
22:32 with one of the mechanics from the facility
22:34 where they maintain it, Caltrans mechanics.
22:36 And so I walk up to my truck.
22:37 And my truck had this big V in the tailgate.
22:40 They laid the tailgate on it and ran it into a post.
22:42 So it was the run to the litter.
22:44 And that's the one I ended up buying
22:45 because it was the only one left.
22:46 And the next to the last one left.
22:48 And so I'm walking up to my truck.
22:49 And the guy goes, oh, you got the good one.
22:52 And I said, what are you talking about?
22:53 It's the run to the litter.
22:55 It's got 203,000 miles.
22:56 And he goes, dude, we just put a brand new crate motor
22:58 in that thing three months ago.
23:01 Score.
23:03 And that's still in there.
23:04 It is still in there, yes.
23:05 And it's got 200,000 miles on it.
23:07 200,000 miles on it right now, yeah.
23:09 214, or 212.
23:12 And the transmission.
23:13 So this is the '93 GMC that I now own,
23:16 that I bought from Jeff like seven or eight years ago.
23:19 And when my Subaru finally fell apart,
23:22 that I'd been keeping on the road forever.
23:25 And you'd let me borrow that truck a bunch of times
23:29 for driving things around.
23:31 And I'd ridden with you to Silver State Challenge
23:35 and all this stuff.
23:36 And you called me up one day and said, I want your truck.
23:37 And I was like, well, I'll sell it to you.
23:38 But I need to buy this other truck first.
23:40 Yeah, you just bought that 2007, the blue one.
23:43 And you're like, well, you're in luck.
23:45 But you sold it to me for a great price.
23:46 I love that thing.
23:47 And it's still on the road.
23:48 But this is the '93 GMC.
23:49 And you know, I have Tim's old truck.
23:51 Yes.
23:51 So I have the orange one.
23:53 This is the pair that you and Tim Moore
23:55 bought when you were at Chevy High Performance.
23:57 I was at Chevy High.
23:58 Oh, no, you were-- I'm sorry, Car Craft.
24:00 And then we did-- so one of them in Car Craft,
24:03 and the other one in Chevy High.
24:04 The Blues Brothers.
24:06 Jake and Elwood.
24:06 Jake and Elwood.
24:07 And Jake was the one you have that I now have.
24:10 And then Tim recently passed away.
24:12 And you've got Elwood now.
24:14 And Elwood.
24:14 And that thing has 300,000 miles on it.
24:18 On the original 305.
24:19 I mean, it's tired.
24:20 It's really tired.
24:22 So I got a new motor going for that.
24:23 Again, more crap to build.
24:26 That's so funny.
24:27 I love that truck, though.
24:29 Oh, yeah.
24:29 Oh, and every time I drive in-- because I
24:31 have to drive into the big city in Winterset.
24:34 Maybe, what, 15,000 feet or something?
24:36 Winterset, Iowa.
24:37 Because my small hometown is 90 people.
24:40 90 people.
24:40 We just got a gas station.
24:42 We have a gas station now.
24:43 It's so great.
24:43 Is that V85?
24:45 No, no 85.
24:46 Just diesel.
24:47 But thank God for small favors.
24:50 Work on that.
24:50 Because I ran out of gas going into town last month.
24:53 I was driving, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, boo.
24:56 Because my V8 S10, because the gas gauge only
24:58 goes to half and stops.
24:59 And the odometer doesn't work.
25:03 Good stuff.
25:04 The cobbler's kids shoes.
25:07 So I had to call my son and say, can you come help me?
25:11 I was only about six blocks from the gas station,
25:13 but I didn't make it.
25:14 So now we have a gas station.
25:16 So I have no excuse now.
25:17 That's good.
25:19 You know, you take scope of a lot of stuff
25:22 that you're involved in.
25:23 And to me, it's like the period of time
25:25 where you spent the majority of your career--
25:26 if you look at the guys that started Hot Rod in the '50s,
25:29 if they were the '50s and then they kind of bowed out
25:31 in the '80s, where you came in in the early '80s
25:34 and carried your career-- I mean, you're still active today,
25:37 but in your active career in the magazines,
25:39 like that was an incredible time.
25:41 Like to me, that's a 30-year stretch
25:43 that we're never going to see again.
25:44 Yes.
25:46 Not realizing it at the time.
25:48 Just treating it like a job.
25:49 But it was like--
25:50 and I was just--
25:53 I was in the right place at the right time
25:55 with the right people.
25:56 So when I took over from Pat Ganahl,
25:59 the very first thing I did was take Pat to lunch and say,
26:02 don't leave.
26:04 I need you here because you're the street rod guy.
26:08 You and Gray Baskerville are the street rod guys.
26:10 I need you guys here because I know the hate mail's coming.
26:14 Oh, this guy's a street machine guy.
26:16 He's going to kill Hot Rod magazine.
26:18 And those letters came in by the dozens.
26:20 It was serious hate mail.
26:22 And it's like, so we need to have a street rod presence,
26:25 and you're the man.
26:27 And so he did.
26:28 He hung around for a while.
26:30 It was fun.
26:32 It was fun.
26:33 It was challenging because Pat had a huge ego.
26:37 Yes.
26:38 I didn't go to the memorial, but I
26:40 guess his son Bill wore a t-shirt that said--
26:43 Was my dad ever a dick to you?
26:45 A dick to you.
26:45 Of course, everyone would walk up and go, yes.
26:48 But that was Pat.
26:50 And once you got past that, he was a wonderful, wonderful guy
26:53 and a wealth of knowledge.
26:55 So it was-- and Philippe Don, and all--
27:00 of course, Marlon.
27:02 And it was just a wonderful time.
27:04 So one quick Marlon story?
27:06 Yeah, absolutely.
27:07 So I had not been editor very long.
27:08 Marlon being Marlon Davis, tech editor.
27:11 And was there longer than any of us.
27:13 I mean, I think he eventually got to the point
27:15 where he had the longest tenure at Peterson,
27:18 continuous tenures at Peterson ever for anybody.
27:21 I mean, maybe even Bob DiLivo, the head of photography.
27:26 Anyway, so very early on.
27:28 So I'm still kind of-- because managing Marlon was a challenge.
27:33 Very unique guy.
27:34 Very unique personality.
27:35 Wonderful, wonderful, honest, just genuine person.
27:40 Did not have a disingenuous bone in his body.
27:42 So he's in my office, and we're talking.
27:44 And he says, what are you working on?
27:46 I'm working on this-- my white car, my '66 Chevelle.
27:49 And it's got factory AC.
27:51 It's a short water pump.
27:52 And I don't have any of the brackets.
27:55 And so I'm looking for him.
27:56 And it's just a car guy chat.
27:59 And then we talked about some other things.
28:01 He leaves.
28:02 And then he comes back at like 6 o'clock.
28:04 He walks in.
28:05 He's got four pages of notes of his legal notepad.
28:11 And it's-- I mean, there's dozens and dozens
28:14 of part numbers for me.
28:17 And then he said--
28:18 This bracket plus this bracket.
28:18 Because in his office, he had all the old parts books.
28:22 And he would go every year to the Chevrolet dealership--
28:25 Get the fresh one.
28:26 And get last year's, because they would give them to him,
28:29 because they had the new ones came in.
28:31 And he said, you know what the best part about all this is?
28:34 I go, no.
28:35 He goes, none of these are available.
28:37 Get on it.
28:37 It's like, oh.
28:39 And I thought, I got to be careful here,
28:42 because you could wind him up.
28:43 Just send him on a mission.
28:44 Send him on a mission.
28:45 And he'll just run until he drops.
28:48 He's like running a horse until it dies.
28:50 You had to be careful.
28:51 So Marlon's a wonderful, wonderful guy.
28:55 He was an acquired taste.
28:57 Absolutely.
28:59 Like Jeff said, very, very genuine, quirky personality.
29:02 But super nice guy.
29:06 I'm sorry.
29:06 You did a road trip with him in the Corvette.
29:08 We did.
29:09 So one of the first things we did at Hot Rod--
29:11 How long a road trip?
29:12 It was about three, two days.
29:16 Get out of here.
29:16 OK, this is gold.
29:17 In a '62 Corvette.
29:19 A hardtop '62 Corvette.
29:22 And so what we were doing was Route 66.
29:25 And so we were going to do the last leg.
29:27 And so we actually went up--
29:29 they call it the gold road-- from Kingman up through--
29:33 you and I went to that town.
29:34 Yes, we did.
29:35 Oakman.
29:35 Oakman.
29:36 With the donkeys walking around.
29:37 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:38 Because I talked to you.
29:39 Because I'd been there with a '62.
29:41 Yes.
29:42 And so we're sitting in this hotel bar.
29:45 This is another good story.
29:46 So we're sitting in this hotel bar with these people I've just
29:49 met, right?
29:49 And they said, you know, there's a gold mine just outside
29:53 of town if you want to come see it.
29:55 It's just a hole in the ground.
29:55 But you want to see it?
29:56 I was like, yeah.
29:57 So we get there.
29:58 And they pulled the bars apart.
30:01 They blocked-- the Bureau of Land Management
30:03 had blocked us off.
30:04 But you could squeeze through there.
30:06 So we're standing around this pit.
30:08 And he goes, here, throw a rock in the center.
30:09 And you never heard it hit the water.
30:12 How deep is that?
30:14 And then all of a sudden, this thought ran through my mind.
30:17 I don't know these people.
30:19 And they've lured me to this place.
30:21 They've lured me to this hole.
30:21 And Marlon's just, you know, doo-doo-doo-doo.
30:23 This is a hole.
30:24 And I start backing out.
30:26 Like, OK, we've got to go.
30:28 Because all you have to do is go--
30:30 And it's over.
30:30 And then never find you.
30:31 Never find you.
30:32 Take your car and never find you.
30:35 I was really scared.
30:36 So we need to get out of there.
30:37 So we go back to the hotel, meet these other people.
30:39 And they said, oh, you need to take the old road.
30:42 It's not maintained, but it's still there.
30:45 That will connect you back into I-10.
30:47 And then there's an old section for Route 66.
30:49 You need to take this.
30:50 And we were like, well-- because half the people in the bar
30:53 were going, I wouldn't do that if I were you.
30:56 The other half were going, oh, you need to do this.
30:58 You need to do this.
30:58 It's so cool.
30:58 And then they said, there's a rock bridge
31:01 that you need to look off to your right as you leave town.
31:03 And that's the old Pony Express Bridge.
31:06 OK, we have to do this.
31:07 Wow.
31:08 And several of the road goes through these washes.
31:11 And it was all washed out with sand and stuff.
31:13 So we had to blast through that.
31:15 It was so much fun.
31:16 Then at the end, we're getting towards the beach and the park.
31:21 I forget the name of the park.
31:22 But that's where 66 officially ends.
31:24 Mm-hmm, in Santa Monica.
31:25 In Santa Monica.
31:26 And KMET, which is a dead radio station now in Los Angeles,
31:31 we're like a mile from the beach.
31:34 And they play the Doors' "This is the End."
31:38 It was like, oh my god.
31:40 This is so-- that is so cool.
31:41 And Marlon goes-- and I'm just jumping up and down.
31:45 I'm so excited.
31:45 He goes, what?
31:46 What?
31:47 And I go, I can't explain this to you, Marlon.
31:51 I don't think Marlon listened to the Doors ever.
31:53 No.
31:54 Does not compute.
31:55 But it was just serendipitous.
31:57 It was like, this was meant to be.
31:59 It was so cool.
32:00 That was a road trip you guys did in stages, right?
32:02 We did in stages.
32:03 Yeah.
32:03 And we'd leave it in different places.
32:05 And two more staffers would fly out.
32:06 So I did two stages.
32:08 One at the beginning.
32:09 And so I have another story going out.
32:11 So I'm driving it by myself.
32:12 And I scheduled it so I could stop at my whatever--
32:15 it was my high school reunion that weekend.
32:18 So we used to have a Friday night party
32:19 at this bar that was owned by one of our classmates.
32:22 So I get there like an hour early
32:25 so I can park the Corvette right in front of the bar.
32:27 So '62 red 327 four-speed Corvette
32:31 with California black and gold plates.
32:32 Yeah.
32:33 Right?
32:33 Doesn't get any better.
32:34 And then I just sat back and listened
32:36 to the talk go through the room.
32:38 Like, who's Corvette?
32:40 Who is it?
32:41 Who is it?
32:41 You know?
32:42 And I could hear it going around the room.
32:44 And finally, one of my classmates walking up
32:45 was, it's yours, isn't it?
32:48 Well, technically, no.
32:49 It's not my car.
32:50 But I'm driving it.
32:51 And then pissed off my wife, Susie,
32:54 because I took girlfriends, old girlfriends,
32:56 rides for the rest of the night.
32:58 Yeah, that didn't make me any points at all.
33:00 So it was fun.
33:01 It was a good time.
33:02 You were the car guy then in high school, right?
33:04 And one of the girls I actually dated in high school
33:08 walks up to me at one point.
33:09 And she goes, you have not changed at all.
33:13 And I went--
33:13 That's awesome.
33:14 No.
33:14 Why would I?
33:15 Exactly.
33:16 I get paid to do something that everybody else-- it's
33:19 a fantasy job, right?
33:20 I mean, it was a lot of work.
33:22 But it was also-- because you get to be the hero, right?
33:25 Yeah.
33:25 You get to-- you're always the hero.
33:27 You're coming in to do a story with a manufacturer or a guy.
33:30 You're going to put this guy's car on the cover?
33:31 Right.
33:32 I mean, you just made his life.
33:34 Unless you're trying to make drools at a drag race.
33:36 Unless you're trying to make drools at a drag race.
33:38 And then you're the pariah.
33:39 You're absolutely just--
33:42 So yeah.
33:43 We're talking about '92, the first ever fastest street car
33:46 race that's happening in Memphis.
33:47 You're the guy that's--
33:49 You're in charge of this thing.
33:51 And you become kind of the lead ringmaster, security guard,
33:56 all kinds of stuff.
33:58 So Joe Pettit walks into my office--
33:59 this was months before-- and says, I got the story idea.
34:02 I go, OK.
34:03 He goes, why don't we do a story on the 10 fastest
34:06 street cars in America?
34:08 And when I picked myself up off the floor and said,
34:11 stop what you're doing and do that.
34:13 Do that.
34:14 Don't do anything else.
34:15 Do that.
34:16 And then-- so the word got around.
34:18 And then finally, Flowmaster called me and said, no.
34:23 You should have a race.
34:24 And I said, the company won't let us do it.
34:25 He said, we'll put it on.
34:26 Oh, nice.
34:27 Let us put it on down in Memphis.
34:30 And we did it in conjunction with NMCA, which was then
34:33 the Muscle Car Association.
34:35 And it eventually evolved into the fastest street car thing.
34:40 So that's how it started.
34:41 And then so I thought we'd have this little meeting
34:43 of all the racers at the base of the tower on Sunday morning.
34:47 And it became a near riot.
34:50 Because everybody was out to promote their idea
34:53 of what the rules should be.
34:54 And I thought there was going to be like--
34:59 And that's when I realized, I do not
35:01 want to be a race-sanctioning body or set rules.
35:06 Because then you're universally hated.
35:09 And that's the nature of the beast.
35:15 It is.
35:15 Because every racer is out to promote his program
35:19 and doesn't care about anybody else.
35:22 So the only one person in mind-- no one
35:24 has this global idea except you.
35:27 And that won't work.
35:29 That's interesting.
35:30 It does take a personality.
35:31 Like Lonnie Grimm, who's kind of--
35:33 I think you could scream at him in his face.
35:35 And he'd just sort of, well, John,
35:39 I see what you're saying, but--
35:41 But we're not changing this.
35:43 Completely unflappable.
35:44 And to take somebody like that--
35:45 I don't have that personality.
35:46 I don't either.
35:46 I don't either.
35:47 I would just-- I couldn't do it.
35:49 Because too many years of being the hero, right?
35:51 And it's like, yeah, this is great.
35:52 I like this idea.
35:53 We want you to do this.
35:54 No, I don't think so.
35:55 [LAUGHTER]
35:58 One of the things that, on the opposite end of the spectrum,
36:01 something that John's really gotten back into now
36:03 with Hot Rod is Dare to be Different.
36:05 Yeah.
36:05 And Dare to be Different was something
36:06 that you guys championed.
36:07 And I remember as a kid getting the magazines
36:09 and being excited when you'd see that on the cover.
36:11 Because I was going to see something in those pages
36:13 that I hadn't seen before.
36:14 And it really came from an illustration.
36:17 Oh, now, see, I'm getting old.
36:19 And names have just lost me.
36:21 So I apologize to the illustrator, Daryl Mayab.
36:26 Anyway, it all started with that.
36:28 And he sent me these little pictures, line drawings.
36:31 And I was like, we need to do something with this.
36:34 And there were people building cars like that.
36:36 49 bullet nose Studebakers and all that kind of stuff.
36:40 And Scott Sullivan sent me--
36:42 he still has the car.
36:45 And it's in process.
36:47 Four-door '57 Ford wagon that he wanted to turn into a two-door.
36:51 So he sent me a flat, just a little print.
36:54 And then I turned it of what it would look like.
36:58 And it was like, this is so cool.
37:00 And I turned it over.
37:01 And there were like 19 cuts in this two-dimensional picture
37:06 in order to make it look like a two-door.
37:08 And I called him up.
37:09 I said, you have to do this three-dimensionally.
37:11 He goes, yeah.
37:12 This is not going to be easy.
37:15 But that was the level of build even back then in the '80s.
37:21 And then Rocky Robertson and all the stuff in the J2000
37:25 with Rick Doberton.
37:27 And people really bag on the J2000.
37:31 And my line has always been the same.
37:34 Even if you don't like it because it
37:36 didn't have a suspension--
37:37 I don't know if you've ever heard that story.
37:38 Valve springs or something, right?
37:39 It was a valve spring.
37:40 Because he went to the first pro street competition.
37:42 They said, you don't have any suspension.
37:43 He goes, well, the tires has been.
37:44 Nope, got to have a suspension.
37:46 So he bought some big block--
37:48 hey, I have a picture somewhere.
37:49 He brought one.
37:50 He says, this is one of the original valve springs.
37:53 Because it had half an inch of travel.
37:55 It's like, you didn't say how much.
37:57 You just said it had to have a suspension.
37:58 But there it is.
37:59 And I mean, Rick was very, very innovative.
38:01 And we could do a whole podcast on the surface orbiter.
38:04 Oh, the surface orbiter.
38:05 Oh my god.
38:06 Yeah, that would be awesome.
38:07 Yeah.
38:07 That cost him like a marriage, right?
38:09 Oh, yeah.
38:10 Yeah.
38:10 And a lot more than that, probably.
38:13 Well, OK, one quick story.
38:15 So he told me this story.
38:17 He brings it to the office.
38:18 It's parked right in front of the office
38:20 at 8490 Sunset.
38:21 So he parks it on Sunset Boulevard.
38:23 This milk tank, right?
38:24 I was going to say, it started as a stainless steel, 53-foot
38:27 tanker truck.
38:27 Nope.
38:28 You heard your story about how the whole thing started?
38:30 Where he got the money to start this with?
38:32 So they had brought the J2000 down to Australia
38:36 for the Street Machine Nationals down there,
38:38 which is in the winter.
38:39 And so they're in Australia.
38:41 So he and his first wife are--
38:45 she's got the bulky film cameras.
38:47 And he's dinking around with a kangaroo.
38:51 And they talk about boxing kangaroos.
38:53 And so he's pestering this kangaroo.
38:55 The kangaroo just right crossed him and knocked him out.
38:59 She got a video.
39:00 And they won like $10,000, America's funniest home video.
39:03 Get out of here.
39:04 That's where it started.
39:05 That's where it started.
39:06 So he took that money and built the Surface Orbiter from that.
39:11 So he's telling me this.
39:12 He freaking won America's funniest home videos.
39:14 And that's what he used to--
39:15 oh, my god.
39:16 Yes.
39:17 I mean, only Doberton could pull something like this out.
39:20 Get out of here.
39:20 Only Doberton.
39:22 So then he starts telling me, yeah,
39:24 I'm going to drive this thing around the world.
39:26 That was the whole point.
39:28 And the only track I remember was
39:31 he had to go across the North Sea.
39:33 And I was like, dude, you won't survive that.
39:36 That is the most violent--
39:37 like, as part of the Atlantic, the North Sea is terrifying.
39:40 Yeah, the North Sea is horrifying.
39:41 And I said, no, Rick, no.
39:44 Don't do this.
39:45 I don't want to lose my friend.
39:46 And think about everybody else that
39:49 might have to go out and try and search for you.
39:51 So anyway, there are dozens of Doberton stories.
39:57 We're going to have him on our podcast
39:59 at the Grand National Roaster Show.
40:01 And I'm going to do two podcasts with him, one about Pro Street
40:03 and the other one just about the Grand--
40:06 because I know there are probably dozens of stories.
40:09 And that guy will absolutely make you laugh so hard
40:12 that you just--
40:13 he's just a character.
40:14 One final--
40:15 A fabricator, a fantastic fabricator.
40:17 Well, he made this stuff.
40:17 It was incredible.
40:18 Yeah, the stainless steel chassis on the J2000 to this
40:21 day is a work of art.
40:24 Every weld is ground down and polished.
40:25 Oh my god.
40:26 That's amazing.
40:26 They're about to throw us out of our PRI booth here.
40:28 But I got to ask you one more question.
40:30 As far as points of pride in your career,
40:32 being the guy that was at the helm of Hot Rod
40:35 when it had the single largest month of circulation ever
40:37 has to rank.
40:39 Yeah, I think that's probably the pinnacle.
40:41 That was when we put the--
40:43 That was the Cadillac.
40:44 --Cadzilla on the cover.
40:46 Yeah, and that was a fight.
40:50 Story about the cover?
40:51 Absolutely.
40:51 This will be the closing story.
40:54 So you know it's a dark purple.
40:56 It photographs black.
40:58 And Randy Florenson, God love him,
41:01 did this fantastic cover with the boys.
41:04 The center is folded on this side, but also the cover.
41:06 Well, it was a custom Cadillac.
41:08 Everybody knows the Cadzilla.
41:09 It was the back of a custom Cadillac.
41:12 So it was dark.
41:14 The image was dark.
41:15 The car was a custom.
41:17 It was a Cadillac, and it was the rear of the car.
41:19 It violated every rule at Peterson, every single one.
41:22 So there was a meeting upstairs.
41:24 I go upstairs, and it's like the room is full.
41:27 It's like a firing squad.
41:28 Oh my god, yeah.
41:29 And circulation on that side, and editorial on this side.
41:31 It's us and them mentality.
41:32 And Mr. Wengro sits over here in the corner
41:34 and doesn't say a word.
41:35 And we're firing salvos back and forth.
41:37 John Diane is not saying anything.
41:39 Harry's trying to help me.
41:41 Lee Kelly was sitting over here in the far corner,
41:44 who at that time was now the publisher at Motor Trend,
41:47 I think.
41:47 Oh, OK, yeah.
41:48 But he had been the editor of Hot Rod magazine previous.
41:51 And so it's going back and forth,
41:53 and I'm not backing down, right?
41:54 And at one point, circulation said something,
41:57 and I started to stand up.
41:58 And Harry put his hand on my knee.
42:01 You don't want to do that.
42:02 Yeah, because if you stand up and you go--
42:04 because I told him, I said, I'm coming out of there
42:06 with my cover or no job.
42:09 Wow, good for you.
42:11 These papers are not backing me down.
42:13 And we didn't get along with circulation at all.
42:17 But anyway, so it's going back and forth and back and forth
42:20 and back and forth.
42:21 John Diane is not saying a word.
42:23 He's not helping me, but at least he's not on their side,
42:25 at least not yet.
42:26 So it's just really frustrating because it's like two of us,
42:31 and then the rest of the world's against us.
42:33 It's kind of like Michigan versus the world, right?
42:36 So finally, Mr. Wengro says, you know,
42:40 Lee, we haven't heard from you.
42:42 I really value your opinion.
42:44 I'd really like to hear what you have.
42:45 I thought, this is the tipping point.
42:46 Yeah.
42:47 If he sides with them, and he's sitting on their side, right?
42:49 Yeah.
42:50 If he sides with them, it's done.
42:52 And I'm going to have to just take a spear to the chest.
42:55 Because that was my next plan was to say,
42:57 well, you're going to have to fire me because I'm not
42:59 changing this cover.
43:00 And he says, well, I've been listening to everything
43:03 that everybody has to say.
43:05 And I think you ought to let him run it.
43:07 Good.
43:07 And it was like, oh my god.
43:09 And then John Diane goes, Fred, I've
43:11 been thinking about this a long time.
43:13 And I agree.
43:14 I wholeheartedly agree.
43:16 Because he saw the wind shift, right?
43:19 And so he dived in.
43:20 And OK, at least he supported us.
43:23 I mean, he didn't say no.
43:24 And then it became the single best-selling issue ever,
43:28 which of course just confused the hell out of him.
43:30 And then one ancillary question real quick.
43:35 When the book came out, remember MTV?
43:39 And they would have this guy stand up and do--
43:41 Kurt Coder.
43:41 And he would do the news, right?
43:43 And it would be the picture of the Earth spinning behind him.
43:46 And so I came home.
43:47 And I'm just channel surfing.
43:48 And Kurt Lauder, I'll stay here.
43:51 And I watch a little bit of video or something, news.
43:54 And then he goes--
43:55 and you know, ZZ Top's on the cover of Hot Rod magazine.
43:57 Holds up a cover of Hot Rod magazine on MTV.
44:00 On MTV.
44:00 But ah, I'm trying to get a VCR.
44:02 Right, get a tape in there.
44:04 And I missed it.
44:05 And no one believed me the next day in the office.
44:07 Nah, you're making that up.
44:09 But we were on MTV.
44:11 And the book just flew off the shelf.
44:13 It was just right place, right time.
44:16 And bringing in an outside--
44:18 because I'm sure there were some rock and roll people that
44:20 thought, what is this?
44:21 Let's buy this.
44:22 What is ZZ Top doing with a car?
44:25 And that was a million copies, right?
44:27 Yeah, million copies.
44:28 And we actually were--
44:30 I think we were there for the year, for the whole year.
44:34 The only time Hot Rod was ever there.
44:36 And again, it'll sound like, well, I was there.
44:41 No.
44:41 I mean, it was just we were at the right place
44:43 at the right time.
44:44 Doing the right stuff.
44:45 And all the stuff was working.
44:47 All the moon and stars aligned.
44:48 And had it not been for everybody's contribution,
44:52 circulation, even though we hated them, they did their job.
44:57 And the book sold.
44:58 Yep.
44:58 That's awesome.
45:00 Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
45:01 A lot of fun.
45:01 This has been awesome.
45:03 Always great to catch up with Jeff.
45:05 Yeah, Jeff and I worked together for a long time at Car Craft.
45:08 Mentor of mine.
45:09 Just it's an honor to even follow in your footsteps.
45:12 It's just fun.
45:13 It's fun.
45:13 It's really cool.
45:14 Jeff Smith, thank you so much for taking the time.
45:16 Oh, dude.
45:16 My pleasure.
45:17 My pleasure.
45:18 That's it.
45:18 That's a wrap on another episode of the Hot Rod Pod,
45:20 Where It All Began.
45:21 I think we're going to probably do a part two or five
45:24 with this guy down the road.
45:25 We're going to keep harassing him.
45:26 We'll probably go out to Iowa and go harvest some corn with
45:28 him.
45:29 We'll be back.
45:30 More guests from the aftermarket.
45:31 More guests from the legendary history of Hot Rod magazine
45:33 and high performance world.
45:35 Thanks for watching.
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