ITG 144: WVU Football GM Drew Fabianich
ITG 144: WVU Football GM Drew Fabianich
Transcript
00:00:00 (upbeat music)
00:00:02 - In the gun episode 144,
00:00:08 it's time to talk to one of the guys
00:00:12 conducting and instructing behind the scenes
00:00:15 for the Mountaineers.
00:00:16 It's the Drew Fabianich episode here on ITG.
00:00:19 I am Wesley Uhler.
00:00:20 I've got the best teammates in the business.
00:00:22 We got the beer truck down the sideline himself,
00:00:24 big Owen Schmidt, and the signal caller, Jed Drenning.
00:00:28 And as always, this episode of ITG
00:00:30 brought to you in part by,
00:00:33 pardon me, I'm so excited I can hardly get the words out,
00:00:35 our friends at BetOnline where the game starts.
00:00:39 Listen, they're saying, gentlemen,
00:00:40 between 27 and 28 billion dollars
00:00:43 are gonna be wagered on the Super Bowl this weekend,
00:00:46 which is just an insane number if you think about it.
00:00:50 BetOnline, for all of your big game needs
00:00:53 if you're getting into the action on Sunday.
00:00:57 This is going to be an action-packed episode,
00:00:59 ladies and gentlemen.
00:01:00 I mentioned Drew Fabianich.
00:01:01 He is the GM, the director of scouting for the Mountaineers,
00:01:06 and what a guy to talk to this time of year,
00:01:09 and really, while they're in the process
00:01:12 of building this roster and gearing everything up,
00:01:14 of course, for the fall of 2024.
00:01:16 And then just to talk about Drew again,
00:01:19 or talk to Drew, I should say,
00:01:21 about the scope of just roster management,
00:01:24 roster building, the ever-changing landscape
00:01:27 that is college football in the transfer portal
00:01:29 and the NIL era.
00:01:31 Jed, I know you're fired up for this one.
00:01:33 You know Drew, you've worked a little bit with Drew,
00:01:36 and this should be some good conversation
00:01:38 for us to sink our teeth into.
00:01:40 - Guys, I'm terribly excited about this.
00:01:43 Drew is, again, a good friend
00:01:45 down on the world's coolest sports bar,
00:01:47 which is the West Virginia sidelines, right?
00:01:49 So we get to compare notes
00:01:52 throughout the balance of a game.
00:01:53 He's a fascinating guy to talk to.
00:01:56 Talked to a buddy of mine this week.
00:01:58 He's excited that we're interviewing Drew,
00:02:00 and that's a former receiver at West Virginia,
00:02:02 you know, Chaz Padorco.
00:02:04 And Chaz made a good point.
00:02:05 He said, "When I listen to that guy talk,
00:02:07 "when I read about what that guy has to say,
00:02:09 "two words come to mind, institutional knowledge."
00:02:11 And that's exactly what Drew is.
00:02:13 Drew brings so much value to the table.
00:02:15 He's the first ever general manager
00:02:17 in the history of West Virginia football.
00:02:19 That's something we're gonna get into him
00:02:22 and discuss what is a GM,
00:02:24 what is it at the college level compared to the NFL level.
00:02:27 There's just so much to talk about.
00:02:28 Individual and specific personnel discussions,
00:02:31 big picture college football stuff.
00:02:33 He is an absolute wealth of knowledge,
00:02:36 long time in the NFL with the Cowboys,
00:02:38 long time college coach.
00:02:40 So he just brings a ton of knowledge, Owen.
00:02:42 - Yeah, I'm excited to ask him a couple questions.
00:02:47 - Yeah, I was gonna say, Big O,
00:02:49 this is gonna be like the opposite
00:02:50 of the Charles episode, right?
00:02:52 Where Jed only asked a few questions
00:02:55 and you and I were kind of,
00:02:56 this is gonna be, I tell you what,
00:02:57 Jed's fired up and ready to go on this one.
00:03:00 - Mr. Jimmy Kimmel. - Oh no, absolutely not.
00:03:01 - There you go.
00:03:02 - Yeah.
00:03:04 - You would have him when you come on ITG, yeah.
00:03:06 - From ITG to Kimmel, I mean, he's absolutely blowing up.
00:03:10 So happy for, I mean,
00:03:12 that was a pretty cool episode with Charles last week.
00:03:15 Really great catching up. - It was very cool.
00:03:17 - Had a lot of fun.
00:03:18 And like you said, Wes, I know tonight,
00:03:21 I can almost see Jed over there licking his chops
00:03:27 to get this one rolling.
00:03:28 - He's like a kid on Christmas, baby.
00:03:29 Just wants to tear into this present.
00:03:32 - Drew and I are kindred football spirits.
00:03:36 I mean, he's another guy that just eats it,
00:03:38 lives it, breathes it.
00:03:40 And just a terribly fascinating guy.
00:03:42 Fun personality.
00:03:44 You've probably heard him do some media.
00:03:47 He's been on Tony's show a couple of times,
00:03:48 even earlier this week.
00:03:50 And guess what?
00:03:51 Pretty soon you'll hear him on Redskin Podcast
00:03:54 because his old buddy is now the head coach
00:03:56 for the Washington Commanders.
00:03:58 So he's making his rounds.
00:03:59 He has some opportunities here in February.
00:04:02 So he's on tour too.
00:04:03 Just like we had Charles last week.
00:04:05 Well, Drew's on tour right now in February.
00:04:08 - That's hilarious.
00:04:09 Well, we're going to continue our fun off-season string
00:04:14 of guests here with Drew on the other side.
00:04:16 I will once again, like we did with Charles,
00:04:19 I want to thank all of our sponsors up front here
00:04:21 just because we don't know where this is going to go
00:04:24 and don't want to have to kill any conversation.
00:04:27 So a big shout out as always to our guy JR
00:04:29 and Toothman Ford.
00:04:30 We all know cars cost less in Grafton.
00:04:32 I tell you what, they're helping Drew make his job easier
00:04:35 by all that NIL support that they're giving
00:04:37 our student athletes.
00:04:38 So a big shout out to Toothman as always.
00:04:40 A big thank you to our friends at Fortis
00:04:42 who have been rocking and rolling with us
00:04:43 for a few seasons now for roof performance
00:04:46 and financial certainty guaranteed.
00:04:48 You got to check it, check out fortis.us.com.
00:04:52 And then our newest friend of the program here as well,
00:04:54 to Johnson Equipment.
00:04:55 We know they have that new location,
00:04:57 Route 33 right outside of Weston.
00:05:01 So make sure you're showing some love
00:05:02 to Johnson Equipment for all of your needs there as well too.
00:05:05 All right, gentlemen, let's take a break.
00:05:07 We got Drew with us in the waiting room.
00:05:09 We will bring him in on the other side.
00:05:11 Let's get into it.
00:05:12 You are in the gun.
00:05:13 - Nobody supports the blue and gold Mountaineers
00:05:15 like Toothman Ford.
00:05:16 With over 20 NIL deals and counting,
00:05:18 Toothman Ford continues to rally behind
00:05:20 our student athletes.
00:05:21 And it's time we rally and support the dealer
00:05:23 that supports the Mountaineers.
00:05:25 Not only does Toothman Ford offer the best prices
00:05:27 in the state on pre-owned,
00:05:28 their never over MSRP campaign on new Fords
00:05:31 guaranteed to save you thousands.
00:05:33 Drive with pride all season long,
00:05:35 knowing you're supporting the dealer
00:05:36 that fuels our Mountaineers.
00:05:38 Toothman Ford, where cars cost less,
00:05:40 in Grafton and at toothmanford.com.
00:05:45 - For more West Virginia Mountaineer football content,
00:05:47 be sure to follow us on Twitter @inthegunpodcast.
00:05:51 - For nearly 20 years,
00:05:56 Fortis has been the nation's leader
00:05:57 in providing guaranteed roof performance programs
00:05:59 for commercial buildings.
00:06:01 Fortis offers roof performance solutions
00:06:03 that feature extensive initial and ongoing reconditioning
00:06:06 for commercial buildings
00:06:07 as an alternative to traditional replacement
00:06:09 with long-term performance guarantees
00:06:11 that are backed by global leader Lloyds of London.
00:06:14 Fortis offers a comprehensive range
00:06:15 of roof performance management programs
00:06:17 that provide financial security,
00:06:19 extend the life of our customers' roofs,
00:06:21 and make a significant impact on ROI.
00:06:23 Fortis is currently improving performance
00:06:25 and increasing ROI for customers
00:06:27 at more than 4,800 locations,
00:06:29 with more than 140 million square feet protected,
00:06:32 including many Fortune 500 companies
00:06:35 that have turned to Fortis to save money,
00:06:36 gain financial certainty,
00:06:38 and extend the life of their existing roofs.
00:06:40 Fortis has helped customers save more than $520 million
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00:06:45 for an average ROI of over 250%.
00:06:49 To learn more, visit fortis.us.com.
00:06:52 Fortis, roof performance and financial certainty guaranteed.
00:06:55 (upbeat music)
00:06:59 - If you work the land,
00:07:00 you just gotta be a jack of all trades type.
00:07:03 There's just too much to do.
00:07:04 So if you gotta be a welder or a farmer or a ditch digger,
00:07:09 that's just who you are that day.
00:07:12 Tomorrow, you can be somebody else.
00:07:14 (upbeat music)
00:07:17 - Get your Coyote at the new location
00:07:22 of Johnston Equipment, between Weston and Buckhannon.
00:07:25 - Back in the gun here, and I tell you what,
00:07:27 on our tour of off-season A-listers,
00:07:31 here's another great one for you.
00:07:33 Ladies and gentlemen, Drew Fabianich.
00:07:35 He is the general manager and director of scouting
00:07:39 for the WVU football program.
00:07:42 Drew, I know it's a bit, I mean, all year,
00:07:44 when you work in sports, when you work in football,
00:07:46 is a busy time of year,
00:07:47 but I know you guys are a lot going on right now
00:07:50 with building that roster, managing that roster,
00:07:52 getting ready for the upcoming season.
00:07:54 So thank you for taking the time here to join us.
00:07:56 We really appreciate it, and welcome to ITG.
00:07:59 - I appreciate it, and from this point,
00:08:00 I'll do anything I can to promote WVU football.
00:08:05 No matter how it is, no matter what angle it is,
00:08:08 I mean, because I know what this place can be,
00:08:11 and I'm gonna try to bring it to that place.
00:08:13 - Love to hear it.
00:08:15 - Ah!
00:08:15 - I think we've already taken some of those steps, Owen,
00:08:17 right?
00:08:18 - Yeah.
00:08:19 - Man, that's great to hear.
00:08:20 - So let's start with this.
00:08:23 The burning question would seem to be,
00:08:26 it was just a short couple of years ago, Drew,
00:08:28 that you were part of, for a long time,
00:08:31 one of the biggest brands behind the shield.
00:08:34 You were in the NFL for 18 years,
00:08:36 the most successful brand in the history of the planet.
00:08:40 You left that into the uncharted waters of college football,
00:08:45 right in the middle.
00:08:47 When a lot of people are leaving college football
00:08:51 to go to the NFL because of the craziness
00:08:53 at the college level, you did the reverse.
00:08:56 You said, "You know what?
00:08:57 "I'm gonna take the other path.
00:08:58 "I'm gonna dive into college football
00:09:00 "and see if I can't do something
00:09:01 "to help manage this craziness and make the most of it."
00:09:04 Talk to us about that decision,
00:09:06 leaving the Dallas Cowboys, you know,
00:09:09 two years ago to go to Auburn
00:09:11 before you landed at West Virginia.
00:09:12 - You know, it came to the point where, you know,
00:09:17 I was there for 18 years
00:09:18 and I spent 14 of it as a National Scout.
00:09:22 And, you know, I averaged around 65 flights,
00:09:26 you know, during that year.
00:09:27 And most of it was packed in
00:09:28 from the start of August till Thanksgiving.
00:09:32 And it got to be where it was absolutely a beating,
00:09:38 being in a flight almost every single night,
00:09:40 dropping the rental car off, doing the reports.
00:09:42 I mean, it just didn't fit anymore.
00:09:46 And I didn't want to continue to do the same thing
00:09:48 because again, it seemed like Groundhog Day to me.
00:09:52 I mean, I knew where I was going at the same date
00:09:54 every single year.
00:09:56 I knew which flight I was going on in the combine.
00:09:57 And then when I was going back, you know,
00:10:00 the only thing that changed was the players.
00:10:03 And I wasn't home and it wasn't fair to my wife, you know,
00:10:07 because I mean, I tried to set up everything I could,
00:10:09 you know, to help her while I was gone,
00:10:11 but I was still gone.
00:10:13 And there's some things that needed to be taken care of.
00:10:15 And, you know, she brought it up to me.
00:10:18 It was selfish, you know, it truly was.
00:10:21 And, you know, me getting out of it was because
00:10:25 I got so tired of spending my life in a hotel room,
00:10:28 which, you know, I think I told you this, Jed.
00:10:30 I mean, in 18 years,
00:10:34 I spent 13 and a half of it in a hotel room.
00:10:37 I'd looked at my Bon Voy membership
00:10:38 and it was something like 5,499 nights in a Marriott.
00:10:43 And that's not even counting the Hiltons that I stayed in
00:10:45 when I couldn't get a Marriott or whatever,
00:10:47 or other hotels.
00:10:48 And, you know, it just didn't fit anymore.
00:10:52 And, you know, it wasn't me that decided
00:10:54 about college football.
00:10:57 It was, you know, 'cause I was gonna stay in the NFL.
00:11:00 I just didn't wanna do the same thing that I was doing,
00:11:03 you know, for 14 straight years.
00:11:06 You know, Brian Harsin called and asked me to come to Auburn.
00:11:09 And he said, "Let's run with this.
00:11:11 Let's try to make this something that's different."
00:11:14 He said, "Because this thing's changing every day."
00:11:17 And he said, "What I want you to help me do
00:11:19 is manage the roster, handle the recruiting,
00:11:22 handle the transfer portal, you know,
00:11:24 manage things that I don't have time for
00:11:26 because I need to coach."
00:11:29 And a lot of these guys don't have time to coach
00:11:32 because they don't have somebody that they can trust
00:11:35 with, you know, handling everything that I handle.
00:11:38 You know, in my, and the biggest thing I said,
00:11:40 even to him and to Neil, I said,
00:11:42 "I want to be able to make you guys coach ball
00:11:45 and worry about coaching ball.
00:11:46 I'll handle everything else."
00:11:48 And that's the long and short of it.
00:11:51 So I hope I answered that question.
00:11:54 - Oh, you sure did.
00:11:55 And so that ends after a year.
00:11:58 You had a long standing history with Brian Harsin.
00:12:00 - No, that ended up after five months.
00:12:03 - Five months.
00:12:03 Okay, even more specific.
00:12:06 You've known Brian Harsin forever
00:12:08 since he was back on Mack Brown's staff at Texas.
00:12:10 You had a lot of history with him, right?
00:12:11 - Well, not a lot of history, no.
00:12:13 I mean, put it this way.
00:12:14 We weren't like, we weren't buddies or anything like that.
00:12:17 But Brian and I continued to talk, you know,
00:12:20 from the point where I went,
00:12:22 Mack asked me to come in and visit with their staff.
00:12:24 And I got to know Brian when he was down there.
00:12:27 And he kind of just kept following up, you know,
00:12:29 when he was at Arkansas State and then when he was at Boise.
00:12:32 And we talked maybe like once every other year
00:12:34 or something like that.
00:12:36 And it was more like, you know,
00:12:37 hey, what do you think about this?
00:12:39 You know, what do you think about that?
00:12:41 And I'd give him my thoughts.
00:12:42 No, really what twisted him was Kellen Moore.
00:12:47 Because Kellen was with me with Cowboys.
00:12:50 And he said, you know Drew's available.
00:12:51 He says, no, I didn't know.
00:12:53 And that's when he called me.
00:12:55 So that's how that all started.
00:12:56 - And that's of course there being Brian Harsin
00:12:57 was at Boise with Kellen Moore.
00:12:59 Yeah.
00:13:00 - He would know he was actually Kellen's quarterback coach
00:13:03 and coordinator, you know, with Peterson.
00:13:06 So that's how that whole thing happened.
00:13:08 - Okay, so you ended up leaving Auburn after that blows up.
00:13:13 You ended up, you landed at West Virginia.
00:13:15 Okay, there was a connection between the agents.
00:13:18 I think Neil shares an agent with Brian Harsin.
00:13:20 Is that correct?
00:13:21 Okay, but there's, it's not like a guy with your pedigree,
00:13:24 with your background,
00:13:25 wasn't going to have other offers coming his way.
00:13:27 So what was it initially out of the gates
00:13:31 that appealed to you about what Neil Brown
00:13:33 and West Virginia had to offer
00:13:34 at that juncture last summer?
00:13:37 - Well, you know, it was, it was odd
00:13:39 because I had turned down a job, you know,
00:13:42 like two months previous.
00:13:44 We were actually on vacation in Florida, you know,
00:13:48 at my wife's place with their folks.
00:13:51 And, you know, well, right before that,
00:13:53 I digress just a little bit.
00:13:55 Brian called me and says,
00:13:56 "Hey, you interested in West Virginia?"
00:13:58 I said, "Well, what do they have?"
00:13:59 And he said, "Well, I don't really know for sure,
00:14:01 but it might be kind of the same role that, you know,
00:14:03 you and I kind of put together at Auburn."
00:14:06 I said, "Okay."
00:14:07 And he said, you know, "Neil may call you pretty soon."
00:14:10 Well, we take off to Florida and start our vacation.
00:14:14 And he calls me and says,
00:14:16 "Hey, is like July 3rd okay in the afternoon?"
00:14:20 Right?
00:14:21 And I'm like, "Okay, sure."
00:14:23 Right?
00:14:24 Well, I've come to find out,
00:14:25 he was on vacation too, right?
00:14:28 And I thought that was impressive.
00:14:31 I really did.
00:14:32 Because the time that these coaches have,
00:14:35 I mean, is so few and far between.
00:14:38 And he kind of let me know that this was important
00:14:42 and he wanted to know what kind of role, you know,
00:14:45 I thought it was and what kind of role
00:14:46 he thought it was going to be.
00:14:47 And we kind of shape shifted it a little bit
00:14:52 and kind of made it, you know,
00:14:54 kind of the best for both of us to really help him.
00:14:57 You know, and we spent probably an hour and a half
00:15:02 on the phone and then he brought me up
00:15:04 probably a week later after he got back.
00:15:08 I met with the administration,
00:15:09 looked for a place to live just to,
00:15:12 because again, you don't have time to bounce back and forth.
00:15:15 You need to look as fast as you can and, you know,
00:15:19 found a place and got back.
00:15:21 Then he flew me back up after they offered me the job
00:15:25 and did the retreat and then went back.
00:15:28 And actually my wife had been packing like unmercifully
00:15:32 for like three or four weeks, right?
00:15:35 And as soon as I got back,
00:15:37 I think we had the movers there like two days later
00:15:39 and we were up here two days later.
00:15:42 And I got here right before camp started.
00:15:44 I mean like two days before camp started.
00:15:48 - So you met Neil right about the time.
00:15:51 I have to mention this.
00:15:53 He was finding out we were 14th
00:15:56 in the preseason conference picks.
00:15:58 - Well, here's the thing.
00:15:59 I met Neil when he was the receiver coach at Troy.
00:16:04 - Okay.
00:16:05 - And I think I was there for,
00:16:08 trying to remember, Leotis McKelvin,
00:16:12 I think was the corner that ended up playing safety, right?
00:16:16 Leaked for about five or six years.
00:16:18 - Yep.
00:16:19 - Right.
00:16:20 But he was the pro liaison then.
00:16:22 So I met him, but we didn't really recall each other
00:16:25 until we kind of saw each other again, in person.
00:16:28 And he was like, "Oh yeah."
00:16:29 And I was like, "Oh yeah."
00:16:30 Yeah, we spent a little bit of time together, right?
00:16:33 But yeah, I didn't, I put it this way.
00:16:36 I didn't have a clue.
00:16:37 And again, it really didn't matter
00:16:40 because the reason why I took it
00:16:44 was because of the people in the building.
00:16:46 I mean, he seemed really, really genuine,
00:16:50 really, really, really intelligent.
00:16:52 Not everybody I checked with said
00:16:54 he was a hell of a ball coach,
00:16:56 and put a good staff together,
00:16:57 and they're building it the right way.
00:16:59 They said it wasn't good when he got here,
00:17:02 which it wasn't because I only came here once
00:17:07 while he was the head coach.
00:17:10 And it was to look at, I think it was Ledby Brown,
00:17:13 is that right, the running back?
00:17:14 - Yep, Ledby Brown.
00:17:15 - And he was a late round draft pick.
00:17:17 And I was like, "Okay, well, I normally don't come
00:17:19 "for a late round guy."
00:17:21 But I'd been here probably 10 times in 18 years,
00:17:25 I mean, to see guys that were higher draftable guys
00:17:30 than that, because I couldn't go everywhere, Jed.
00:17:34 There's no way, you can't go,
00:17:36 you can't in person see everybody, it's impossible.
00:17:39 So you have to kind of, you kind of have to hit your,
00:17:42 you know what I'm saying, you gotta be real precise
00:17:45 about where you're going and why you're going.
00:17:47 - Let's hit the plot line now.
00:17:50 This is the key.
00:17:51 I think when we discuss what your role actually is,
00:17:54 how you and Neil decided to define it,
00:17:57 it's really a new frontier on the college landscape.
00:18:00 It's been going on forever on the NFL front.
00:18:03 Of course, in the NFL, for those who don't know,
00:18:06 the major responsibilities of a general manager,
00:18:08 correct me if I'm wrong here, Drew,
00:18:10 obviously it involves hiring and dismissing coaches.
00:18:13 That's one of the fundamental differences,
00:18:14 but you're leading the scouting department,
00:18:17 you handle free agents and the transactions,
00:18:19 the signings and who you're not gonna resign.
00:18:21 You handle contract negotiations, you handle trades.
00:18:24 So when you were establishing what this would in fact
00:18:27 look like in a game that doesn't have
00:18:30 quote unquote general managers,
00:18:31 because here's what I wanna ask you,
00:18:33 what is your role?
00:18:34 What did you define it as, you and Neil?
00:18:36 And then let's go through,
00:18:37 now we're in power four college football
00:18:39 instead of power five.
00:18:40 Out of 60 some odd teams,
00:18:43 how many do you guess might have
00:18:45 what's called a general manager?
00:18:46 And then more importantly,
00:18:48 how many are probably just glorified recruiting coordinators
00:18:51 that slapped another title on,
00:18:53 that are really just recruiting for it?
00:18:55 I'm not dismissing anything recruiting coordinators do,
00:18:57 but there's a different skill set involved
00:19:00 with being an actual general manager.
00:19:02 Talk about all that.
00:19:04 - Well, I know there's probably about,
00:19:07 probably anywhere from eight to 10
00:19:09 that have the title now.
00:19:10 I don't know all of their backgrounds.
00:19:13 I can tell you the guys in the past,
00:19:16 like Alonzo Highsmith just left Miami
00:19:19 to go back to the New England Patriots.
00:19:21 Well, he had 18 years in the NFL,
00:19:24 in the front office and over the top,
00:19:27 just like I did.
00:19:28 Bob Welton down in Alabama had,
00:19:31 I think probably five or six years in the NFL.
00:19:35 There's guys around that have some pro background.
00:19:38 I don't know a lot of them have pro background
00:19:41 plus the coaching.
00:19:43 I know a lot of them have kind of worked their way up
00:19:47 through the system and some of them are recruiting directors
00:19:50 and this and that.
00:19:52 I'm not saying that they're not doing what I'm doing,
00:19:57 but they're not because they're not doing advances.
00:20:02 They're not breaking down the roster.
00:20:04 They're not doing individual reports for players.
00:20:07 They're not going over mismatches and things like that
00:20:12 and trying to develop the players
00:20:15 because really they're,
00:20:17 and again, I don't know that for a fact,
00:20:20 but I would be willing to bet against it.
00:20:22 - There has to be guesswork.
00:20:25 I mean, again, not a lot of people have done this.
00:20:27 So we're gonna get into some film study stuff,
00:20:29 but let's talk about just so people out there understand
00:20:32 what exactly it is.
00:20:33 I mean, you and I speak the shorthand.
00:20:34 Owen speaks the shorthand, Wes speaks the shorthand.
00:20:36 Not everybody speaks the shorthand.
00:20:37 So even when you talk about individual player reports,
00:20:40 what you're talking about there is how you can enhance
00:20:43 a West Virginia football player's ability and opportunity
00:20:46 to play at the next level.
00:20:47 Here's your shortcomings, here's your strengths,
00:20:49 here's what you need to work at.
00:20:50 So I want you to talk about that
00:20:52 and then we can get into the mismatches and the film study.
00:20:54 First talk about that, 'cause that's a critical role.
00:20:56 When a kid comes here, that's the brass ring
00:20:59 they're often trying to capture.
00:21:01 They wanna play in the league.
00:21:02 They get an education by playing the league.
00:21:04 - Well, and see, they didn't know that until,
00:21:07 you know, I did a presentation, you know, in early August,
00:21:10 what I was gonna be doing.
00:21:12 When I first got here, I broke down every single player
00:21:15 on the roster in August.
00:21:17 And really what it is, Jed and guys, I mean,
00:21:20 it's a positive, it's a negative,
00:21:23 but it's also what they can improve on
00:21:25 and how they can improve on it from taking that negative
00:21:28 and turn it into a positive.
00:21:30 And not everybody's gonna play in the NFL.
00:21:31 I mean, 1.5% make it in the NFL.
00:21:34 But, you know, I can identify the flaws
00:21:38 and I'm the unbiased eye because when you coach guys,
00:21:43 you truly turn blind to some of their flaws.
00:21:48 You just go, "Oh, he's a little stiff.
00:21:50 Ah, okay."
00:21:52 You know, well, I'm that guy that says,
00:21:54 "Okay, you need to work on your ankle stiffness.
00:21:57 You need to work on your hip stiffness.
00:21:58 You need to work on your lateral quicks.
00:22:00 You know, you're off balance.
00:22:01 You play too far over your toes."
00:22:02 I mean, I'm gonna tell them,
00:22:04 and I don't just do it in the report.
00:22:09 I do it at practice and they call it drive-bys, right?
00:22:13 Because I'll do a drive-by, you know, on a player,
00:22:17 and I'll say, you know,
00:22:18 "Hey, you know, your pass protection isn't worth it.
00:22:21 You know, you need to learn how to slide.
00:22:23 You need to get your hand placement.
00:22:25 You need to be a little bit more firm."
00:22:27 Right?
00:22:28 And I'll just walk away, right?
00:22:30 And, you know, and again,
00:22:32 I'll say it a little bit more colorful sometimes,
00:22:34 but I'll also be really, really short about it too.
00:22:37 Like, "That's not good enough.
00:22:38 You know, hey, you're not pushing it like you should.
00:22:41 You know, you're overweight.
00:22:43 You need to lose weight.
00:22:44 You need to get, you know,
00:22:46 you need to work on your foot speed."
00:22:48 I mean, I'm gonna blow them up really, really quickly.
00:22:50 And they know that.
00:22:51 I told them, I said, "Look,"
00:22:52 I said, "Don't be afraid of the truth
00:22:54 because all I'm here for is to take those negatives
00:22:58 and try to turn them into positives."
00:23:00 And I said, "So don't take it as, you know, criticism, okay?
00:23:04 Take it as something you can learn from."
00:23:06 And yeah, I can get nasty at times.
00:23:09 I mean, I admit that,
00:23:10 but I can also be very forthcoming
00:23:13 about everything that I can help them with.
00:23:16 So that's the part that I did in August.
00:23:19 And so what I do every single game
00:23:23 is I go through everybody that plays in the game.
00:23:26 And what I do is I take notes on all those players that play.
00:23:29 Then I review those with Coach Brown on Sunday.
00:23:33 And, you know, we just go through
00:23:36 every single person that played.
00:23:38 And what I take from that is that helps me
00:23:42 with the fall report for when I put
00:23:45 those fall reports together,
00:23:47 'cause I keep those notes throughout every week.
00:23:48 And then I review them, I put them together,
00:23:50 and it makes my life easier after the fall.
00:23:55 I think it also helps Coach Brown
00:23:57 to understand what I'm seeing,
00:24:00 because one of the coaches said yesterday,
00:24:02 "I'm different than, you know,
00:24:04 when you go out and recruit a young man."
00:24:06 Because when you go out and recruit a young man,
00:24:08 you look for the positives in what they can do, right?
00:24:11 He said, "When you're scouting," he said,
00:24:14 "When you're working to get the best of the best in the NFL,"
00:24:18 he said, "All you're doing is looking for the negatives."
00:24:22 Right?
00:24:22 - They can't do.
00:24:24 - That's right.
00:24:25 I said, "I'm punching holes in everybody."
00:24:27 And I will tell you what Blaine Stewart calls me, right?
00:24:32 He calls me the Reaper.
00:24:33 - Ha ha!
00:24:35 - He goes, "Every time I walk down the hall,
00:24:37 I say, 'Hey Reaper, how you doing?'"
00:24:38 You know?
00:24:39 Because I'm, you know, I'm chopping people up.
00:24:42 But I think that's valuable,
00:24:44 because, you know, I'm the unbiased person.
00:24:46 And, you know, again, I didn't recruit them.
00:24:48 Well, I mean, I'm gonna recruit a lot of them, you know,
00:24:51 and, you know, they will be important to me too.
00:24:54 But I also let them know
00:24:56 that I'm gonna be very, very honest with them.
00:24:58 Very.
00:24:59 - Oh, and you hear the tough love dimension of Drew here.
00:25:03 What do you think when you hear that, Owen?
00:25:04 I mean, you've been through W, you've been through the league.
00:25:07 I mean, you've received that kind of coaching.
00:25:09 You received that kind of feedback, right?
00:25:11 - I think as a player, if you want to be successful,
00:25:14 you have to take constructive criticism.
00:25:16 And it's gotta be light.
00:25:18 Like, I love that you kind of said you kind of,
00:25:21 it really depends on the personality.
00:25:22 I know that for a hundred percent, you know what I mean?
00:25:27 To where you can kind of like really bust chops,
00:25:30 but you know the people you can push.
00:25:32 I mean, you're just based, you know,
00:25:34 and I love that because it's really teaching them,
00:25:36 the young men that want to get to that next level.
00:25:39 That's what it's gonna be like, you know,
00:25:41 this is what's going to be expected.
00:25:44 So, you know, it's a whole nother element.
00:25:47 - And Drew and I, we've met before.
00:25:50 We talked a little bit.
00:25:52 I was a few beers deep.
00:25:55 - No.
00:25:58 - When I first had met him,
00:26:01 but I am so intrigued by the job
00:26:03 because I think it's such an, you know,
00:26:06 it's in today's game, in the college game,
00:26:09 that's always evolving, always changing.
00:26:12 You're kind of a guy who's coming in
00:26:14 with a ton of experience
00:26:16 and being able to get ahead of the game a little bit,
00:26:19 in my opinion, I almost feel like it's great.
00:26:23 And I'm glad you're here.
00:26:25 What are the methods, you know,
00:26:30 to the madness as far as how the rules
00:26:32 are always ever evolving?
00:26:34 I mean, are those things that always can be considered?
00:26:38 - Well, they have to be considered because,
00:26:41 I mean, the rules change every five minutes.
00:26:44 And, you know, again, it changed when that ruling
00:26:47 came down from the judge up in Wheeling
00:26:50 about the two basketball players.
00:26:52 And I know that he had no thought other than,
00:26:57 you know, hey, what's the ruling on these two young men?
00:26:59 But it opened up Pandora's box.
00:27:02 And now that it's so open to where they can transfer
00:27:06 anytime they want,
00:27:07 your roster management is totally changed now.
00:27:11 And you have to be well aware,
00:27:14 like, let's just say I'm going into the spring and say,
00:27:16 oh, you know, I need a fullback, I need a tight end,
00:27:21 I need, you know, a defensive end and two corners.
00:27:25 Well, that may change because who knows?
00:27:29 I mean, somebody else may walk, right?
00:27:32 So I've got to be prepared to evaluate those guys
00:27:36 as fast as possible to get somebody else to replace them,
00:27:40 which is totally wrong.
00:27:43 I mean, but it's just the landscape
00:27:46 you have to deal with now.
00:27:48 And it's not going to change anytime soon.
00:27:52 The thing that I have an issue with is these young men
00:27:56 don't deal with any adversity whatsoever, none.
00:28:00 And as soon as it gets tough, as soon as it gets hard,
00:28:03 you know, they're out.
00:28:05 - They both.
00:28:06 - Yeah.
00:28:07 And I think that this game prepares you for life
00:28:11 because it's a hard game.
00:28:13 I mean, it's a violent, hard game
00:28:17 and it teaches you how to survive.
00:28:20 Well, if you never have to fight, you know,
00:28:22 and get through something,
00:28:24 well, what happens when something goes bad in your life
00:28:26 later on, you know, when you're working or, you know,
00:28:29 what happens if you get cancer?
00:28:31 What happens if, you know, your parents die?
00:28:33 I mean, they're prepared for nothing
00:28:37 because first of all, they're entitled when they come in.
00:28:40 And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, well, you know,
00:28:43 I got yelled at, I'm out.
00:28:45 You know, I'm second team, I'm out.
00:28:46 You know, guess what?
00:28:47 I was second team at one point, you know,
00:28:50 and guess what?
00:28:51 I fought to be a first teamer later on, you know,
00:28:54 and I felt like I earned something, you know?
00:28:56 So that's my issue with, you know,
00:28:59 the part of college football right now.
00:29:01 It's just too easy to quit.
00:29:04 And that's bothersome to me.
00:29:06 So I digressed and I'm sorry.
00:29:09 - No, not at all.
00:29:10 I love this because, I mean, in my opinion, I can see that.
00:29:14 I mean, like you said, where is the adversity anymore?
00:29:19 I mean, it's just, and where can I get a bigger deal now
00:29:21 when I leave this one place to go?
00:29:24 You know, whose pockets are deeper?
00:29:25 It's just, I agree with you a hundred percent.
00:29:28 It doesn't teach these kids, you know, what's after life.
00:29:32 - But you know, what's funny though,
00:29:33 is they don't look at it long-term either.
00:29:36 I mean, it's like, hey, I make,
00:29:38 I may make 50,000 or $75,000 more somewhere else.
00:29:43 Well, maybe it's not a good fit.
00:29:45 And then what if you don't play?
00:29:47 What if you don't put tape out there?
00:29:49 You know, they're not thinking long-term.
00:29:50 They're just thinking short-term.
00:29:52 And this is not a short-term thing.
00:29:55 - Yeah. - I mean,
00:29:55 you can't think that way.
00:29:56 If you do, you'll never develop.
00:29:59 I mean, because there's some really, really good things
00:30:02 about this place as far as development goes, you know?
00:30:05 - You're part of the solution.
00:30:08 And what I was saying is it's,
00:30:09 the only way to remedy that with kids
00:30:13 so often turning and running from the first sign
00:30:15 of adversity is for you to do the impossible.
00:30:19 And that is foster this ongoing machine
00:30:23 or engine of competition.
00:30:25 You keep trying to infuse the roster
00:30:28 with more and more talent to breed more
00:30:31 and more competition at every position.
00:30:34 And that way, if some kids lift their hat up and say,
00:30:36 hey, I gotta get out of it,
00:30:37 but that's gonna happen everywhere, right?
00:30:38 But Drew, what I wanted to ask you,
00:30:40 let's jump into some film study here,
00:30:43 'cause that's changed so drastically.
00:30:45 I always have to smile.
00:30:46 Those little things that on the sideline,
00:30:48 you lean in and whisper to me,
00:30:49 hey, do you notice this and that?
00:30:51 I'm thinking, oh, Neil's gonna hear that tomorrow.
00:30:53 And Drew's version of the film, "Eval,"
00:30:55 that's one of the nuggets that I'm getting to hear right now.
00:30:57 But let's talk about the advanced scouting portion of it.
00:31:00 You have to put together a two-deep.
00:31:03 Now, this isn't to be understated.
00:31:05 So that's 44 players, 22 on offense, 22 on defense.
00:31:08 You have some assistants who help you.
00:31:11 Yes, you delegate, but a lot of this is hands-on work.
00:31:15 Now, it's not the days of the old beta machines.
00:31:17 I'm sure you used to log around
00:31:18 one of those racks and the tapes.
00:31:20 It's not even the days of the 16 millimeter.
00:31:22 But let's talk about what that looks like to put together.
00:31:26 You're always a couple of weeks ahead,
00:31:28 a couple of games ahead, first of all.
00:31:29 How much tape do you have to watch
00:31:33 to come up with a clean and true two-deep,
00:31:36 44 players on both sides of the ball,
00:31:39 to be able to go to Neil and the staff
00:31:40 and present it in the sense that
00:31:43 here's what they do well,
00:31:44 here's some of their deficiencies,
00:31:46 here's what we need to avoid,
00:31:47 here's what we need to capitalize on.
00:31:48 How much tape does that take to watch?
00:31:51 Now, even though you can streamline it
00:31:52 and watch just third downs, like cut-ups,
00:31:54 whatever it might be, talk about that part of it.
00:31:57 - I don't put a number on how many games it takes.
00:32:02 I put it out actually how I finally get through.
00:32:06 And this'll make a lot of sense to you.
00:32:08 When I went in and looked at,
00:32:11 like let's just say I went to Ohio State
00:32:13 and had 14 players, well, and eight of them
00:32:14 were on defense, right?
00:32:16 Well, what I did is I eliminated the bad players early,
00:32:19 right, and then I concentrated on the good players,
00:32:23 you know, to get a full report on them.
00:32:26 Well, this is just the opposite of that, right?
00:32:30 I spent a lot more time on the good players
00:32:33 to find their holes because those are the ones
00:32:35 that are gonna be playing a lot more.
00:32:38 And then I find the fish and those are the mismatches, okay?
00:32:43 And that too deep is nothing more than I promise you,
00:32:49 just a one-liner of positive, negatives,
00:32:52 and then how to attack that player, right?
00:32:54 And then I'll identify by grade who the mismatches are,
00:32:58 plus, you know, I've got a lot of help, okay,
00:33:02 on the scouting side because I've got to split up
00:33:03 offense and defense and, you know,
00:33:06 Davis Vail and Tolbert Nance do, you know,
00:33:09 Tolbert does the defense, Davis does the offense,
00:33:11 and they do a lot of the groundwork for, you know,
00:33:15 the particulars about, you know,
00:33:18 how the structure of the offense is,
00:33:19 how the structure of the defense is,
00:33:21 and then they help me, you know,
00:33:24 put a lot of things together for that advance for coach.
00:33:27 And they actually handle the offense and defensive,
00:33:30 you know, advances because I want them to grow
00:33:33 and present that to the coaches.
00:33:34 I present the whole thing to Neil.
00:33:36 But most of the coaches use those two deeps
00:33:41 to show those players who they're gonna line up against
00:33:45 and how to attack them.
00:33:47 And then I put the mismatch pages together, you know,
00:33:50 for, you know, the offense and defensive side,
00:33:52 and then those guys present that to them.
00:33:55 But I have a great deal of help.
00:33:57 What's funny is I was so deep into the portal stuff
00:34:00 when we were doing the bowl game, right?
00:34:04 All of a sudden Neil goes,
00:34:06 "You're gonna do an advance for North Carolina?"
00:34:10 And this was like a week before the game, right?
00:34:13 And I went, "I can."
00:34:16 I said, "But you know, that's gonna take
00:34:18 about two and a half days to do."
00:34:21 I mean, it does, it takes about two and a half days to do.
00:34:23 - Especially when you don't know who's playing.
00:34:25 - Yeah, and again, I've got a lot of help with that.
00:34:28 We did through a lot of things to get to those players
00:34:30 that were playing and there was some blanks
00:34:32 because we really truly didn't know
00:34:34 who they were gonna be playing.
00:34:36 But it is easier to pull up like the backups now
00:34:41 because you can use pro football focus
00:34:44 to actually get reps on those guys.
00:34:46 And there's sometimes you really hope
00:34:48 that they are playing some of those backups.
00:34:50 And when they do come in,
00:34:53 I'm darn sure telling the offensive defense,
00:34:55 "Hey, this guy's in, here we go."
00:34:57 So like I said, I hope I answered that question
00:35:01 a little bit.
00:35:02 It's not really like tape tape,
00:35:06 it's more like time, time.
00:35:07 - That makes perfect sense.
00:35:09 And there's a micro and there's a macro with that.
00:35:11 So in other words, the micro would be,
00:35:13 "Hey, if they have a backup nickel
00:35:16 who we can really exploit,
00:35:17 maybe he struggled against the seven cut
00:35:19 or when then Neil takes that and game plans accordingly
00:35:23 from a personnel standpoint,
00:35:24 or maybe they have a five technique or a backer
00:35:26 who struggles laterally against the stretch
00:35:29 and et cetera, et cetera."
00:35:30 But there's also other components which might involve,
00:35:34 here's what this opponent happens to do against tempo.
00:35:36 Here's what this opponent happens to do,
00:35:39 formation to the boundary, formation to the sidelines.
00:35:41 Here's how they handle various motions, right?
00:35:44 - No, I don't really get into,
00:35:46 I don't get into really scheme related.
00:35:48 That's more for the scouting.
00:35:50 This is more so-
00:35:51 - That's good to know.
00:35:52 - I really just- - It's personnel only.
00:35:54 - Yes, I really go after the players.
00:35:57 And I actually, like I said, I look for the fish
00:36:00 and I wanna find the fish for the mismatches.
00:36:03 And-
00:36:03 - And then by process elimination, what's happening?
00:36:05 They're gonna take what you give them,
00:36:07 which you try and keep down to a handful of pages,
00:36:10 10, 12 pages, right?
00:36:11 And then they'll take what the rest of the staff
00:36:14 puts together.
00:36:15 And then you have this collective effort
00:36:17 that is from a team tendency standpoint,
00:36:19 from a personnel tendency standpoint,
00:36:22 that's fascinating to me.
00:36:23 But yeah, it's come so long since those days of,
00:36:27 one beta tape would cover one half of one side of the ball.
00:36:30 It's just, now you have everything at your fingertips
00:36:33 from a digital standpoint.
00:36:34 Let's jump into-
00:36:35 - Jed, the scouting report, man, is the Bible for the week.
00:36:39 I mean, it is invaluable.
00:36:41 The amount of work, I'm telling you right now,
00:36:43 and especially when I got to the league,
00:36:47 I mean, it is invaluable in your research
00:36:50 to pinpoint all those matchups
00:36:52 and be able to focus in and dial in
00:36:54 because a week's a short period of time,
00:36:56 especially when, and Drew,
00:36:58 you can talk on just a standard NFL day.
00:37:01 It's a long day of football, you know what I mean?
00:37:04 Compiled with lots of film, lots of recurring film,
00:37:08 lots of repeater, basically the whole day,
00:37:12 just getting the group smaller.
00:37:14 You come together as a team and then you're just a unit
00:37:18 and then you're a specialized position
00:37:20 and then you're, you know what I mean?
00:37:21 So there's so much film that's being watched.
00:37:24 I mean, I commend you guys tremendously
00:37:27 to be able to gather all the data.
00:37:28 Like how many people do you have working
00:37:30 like in those avenues because-
00:37:33 - Well, really three on the scouting side, okay?
00:37:37 Right, to prepare the advance, okay?
00:37:39 And then the recruiting side,
00:37:41 there's really four full-time, three part-time,
00:37:45 and then 10 student interns.
00:37:48 And then on the scouting side,
00:37:49 there's six interns, okay?
00:37:52 And those are more for the portal side of it, okay?
00:37:56 To help us identify those guys as fast as possible, okay?
00:38:00 And these guys have spent a lot of time
00:38:02 and I spent a little bit of time with them.
00:38:05 I need to spend more time with them, you know,
00:38:08 about how to evaluate traits and how to, you know,
00:38:10 how to look for what we're looking for.
00:38:12 Because, you know, again,
00:38:13 they don't come into this knowing it.
00:38:15 They have to be taught.
00:38:16 And I call it football 101.
00:38:19 And I went through, you know, fall practice
00:38:22 and watched tape with the whole recruiting staff.
00:38:24 And I would just verbally just tell them,
00:38:27 okay, he's ankle stiff, he can't bend.
00:38:29 You know, this guy doesn't have any core strength.
00:38:32 He can't displace guys.
00:38:34 And I'm throwing out terms.
00:38:35 I mean, and one time I said ankle stiff
00:38:36 and everybody's like, what's ankle stiff?
00:38:38 And I actually had to show them.
00:38:40 - Yeah, well, they wouldn't know.
00:38:42 - They wouldn't know.
00:38:43 - Yeah, they wouldn't know.
00:38:45 It's fascinating because now you're really breaking down,
00:38:48 you know, how you obviously critique film,
00:38:51 which is, you know, the eye for being able to see
00:38:56 the athleticism and the mechanics, you know,
00:38:59 you've watched so many players and been able to see what,
00:39:03 you know, kind of your vision for the perfect,
00:39:05 you know, athlete, quote unquote, it is.
00:39:07 But some people just can't understand and kind of see that.
00:39:10 So it's neat hearing you break it down like that.
00:39:13 - Well, but I'm trying to put that out there
00:39:16 to where they make everybody else's job easier.
00:39:19 - Yeah.
00:39:20 - Because, you know, then maybe I don't have to watch,
00:39:23 let's just say there's 1500 Transfer Portal guys.
00:39:26 Well, let's just say those guys just eliminated 700 of them.
00:39:31 - So how do I get a job?
00:39:34 - Well, most of those guys are unpaid.
00:39:39 - Oh, geez.
00:39:40 - Yeah, that's how you do it, Owen.
00:39:41 You won't have to wait till it's a paid position.
00:39:45 - I'll tell you what, Big O,
00:39:46 we'll let you, you could be the mascot at the same time.
00:39:49 All right, so you can get a small stipend
00:39:52 for being the mascot.
00:39:53 (laughing)
00:39:54 - Hold on, hold on, hold on.
00:39:55 Does he have to grow a mullet?
00:39:58 - Yes, 100%.
00:40:01 - I still got, I still have good hair.
00:40:03 It is grained, but I still have good hair.
00:40:05 - I was gonna say, you just need the touch,
00:40:06 you just need the touch of gray in the beard
00:40:08 and then you'll be ready to roll.
00:40:09 - He has mullet these days, it's on his chin.
00:40:11 (laughing)
00:40:14 - All right, well, let's talk about this.
00:40:17 When, in the NFL, there are times
00:40:21 that when somebody's not drafted,
00:40:23 I was just curious if there was a quick parallel here.
00:40:26 You might have to entice or recruit a certain player.
00:40:29 The story that comes to mind,
00:40:30 it's about the time you were arriving in Dallas.
00:40:33 I think you joined the staff the year that Tony Romo
00:40:35 became part of the team out of Eastern Illinois
00:40:37 as an undrafted pre-agent.
00:40:39 Well, Tony Romo had a decision to make.
00:40:40 He wasn't drafted as a small college quarterback.
00:40:43 He was being courted by a couple teams,
00:40:45 most notably the Cowboys and the Broncos.
00:40:48 Now, the Broncos had Mike Shanahan,
00:40:51 quarterback guru on the line,
00:40:52 but he was also an Eastern Illinois guy from Romo school.
00:40:56 So that's what Dallas was up against.
00:40:58 Meanwhile, Parcells and Sean Payton had to pitch Tony Romo
00:41:02 and sell him on the notion that Dallas was a better fit.
00:41:05 You're not drafting him, you're selling him like a recruit.
00:41:08 So what I was gonna ask you,
00:41:10 are there parallels between those types of conversations
00:41:13 and the types of conversations that take place
00:41:16 when you're selling a program to a high school recruit?
00:41:19 - Oh, there's no doubt.
00:41:20 And even at Transfer Portal athlete too.
00:41:22 - There you go.
00:41:23 - Because, and again, I wasn't privy to the conversations,
00:41:27 but I heard the stories afterwards.
00:41:29 And then I evaluated him in that first year in camp,
00:41:32 but the thing that they sold him on was the depth chart.
00:41:36 And the depth chart in Denver was deeper.
00:41:39 And they actually, like you said,
00:41:42 they had to fight the whole Shanahan
00:41:43 and Eastern Illinois thing.
00:41:45 And then Tony made a very educated decision
00:41:48 and said that it's better for me to go to Dallas
00:41:51 because I can probably make the roster.
00:41:54 Because if he can make the roster, then he can grow,
00:41:56 he can become what he wanted to be.
00:41:59 And you gotta do the same thing in high school
00:42:03 with the athletes.
00:42:04 You got to do the same thing with the Transfer Portal.
00:42:06 I mean, you gotta show them.
00:42:08 I've sent out probably four or five depth charts already
00:42:13 to Transfer Portal athletes and say,
00:42:16 "Look, here's what I'm telling you.
00:42:18 And now I'm going to show you.
00:42:21 And if you want an opportunity to play,
00:42:24 don't you think it's better to come in
00:42:26 where you only have to beat out two players instead of six
00:42:30 when you only have one to two years left?"
00:42:33 I mean, you have to do that.
00:42:34 It parallels it like you wouldn't believe,
00:42:36 but you have to, again, recruiting is sales.
00:42:40 It is.
00:42:41 You have to know the product.
00:42:42 You have to know what the product is.
00:42:44 You have to sell the product
00:42:46 and you have to be truthful about it.
00:42:48 Because if they come here and they go,
00:42:51 "Hmm, it's really not."
00:42:52 Well, guess what?
00:42:53 Now they can leave.
00:42:55 - Yeah.
00:42:55 - So it's a double-edged sword.
00:42:57 You have to play it honestly.
00:43:00 You do.
00:43:01 And some don't.
00:43:02 And then some think they're going to be stuck
00:43:04 or they paid them enough to keep them around.
00:43:06 Well, if the kid's smart enough to understand
00:43:08 that it's about the long-term money
00:43:11 and it's about trying to put tape out there for the NFL,
00:43:14 then they'll stick around.
00:43:16 But guess what?
00:43:18 If they don't put tape out there,
00:43:20 I mean, again, I tell these guys this all the time.
00:43:22 When I came into a school, if you weren't on tape,
00:43:25 I wouldn't evaluate you.
00:43:27 Why would I?
00:43:28 I mean, what am I going to evaluate?
00:43:31 So the chances of you coming and playing in the NFL
00:43:34 when there's zero tape and zero snaps, slim and none.
00:43:38 I mean, unless you blow it up at pro day
00:43:41 and all of a sudden run a 4-1-3, right?
00:43:44 Everybody goes, "Ooh, what happened here?"
00:43:46 But that rarely ever happens.
00:43:48 So like I said, I hope I covered that part of it.
00:43:52 - Absolutely.
00:43:52 - And the more extensive your tape,
00:43:54 the more extensive your opportunity to be seen.
00:43:56 Case in point, maybe the get of last offseason,
00:43:59 last year's cycle was Beanie Bishop.
00:44:01 Beanie Bishop jumps onto campus,
00:44:03 he parachutes onto campus, and seven months later,
00:44:05 he's the 13th consensus All-American
00:44:07 in the history of the school at West Virginia.
00:44:09 So let's talk about this for a minute.
00:44:12 I've heard you discuss Dan Quinn,
00:44:14 the recently anointed, freshly minted head coach
00:44:17 of the Washington Commanders.
00:44:18 He's a longtime coordinator of the Cowboys.
00:44:21 When you were on staff with the Cowboys,
00:44:22 you worked with Dan Quinn.
00:44:24 You talk about how Dan Quinn can find the strengths
00:44:28 of a player, irrespective of what those strengths might be,
00:44:31 and find a place for him.
00:44:33 That kind of feels like what we did with Beanie Bishop.
00:44:37 Are there parallels to be drawn there?
00:44:39 Did you see some of that?
00:44:40 You weren't here for the acquisition of Beanie,
00:44:42 but you were here for while he was being coached
00:44:45 and having one of the greatest seasons
00:44:46 in the history of West Virginia on the back end.
00:44:49 Did you see some of those types of things playing out
00:44:52 with Beanie Bishop to get him where he ended up landing?
00:44:56 - Well, yeah, because again,
00:44:58 the one thing I can tell you about Dan is that rarely do,
00:45:03 when you bring somebody in, every coach says,
00:45:06 "Oh, just bring me a good player.
00:45:08 "I'll find a place for him," right?
00:45:10 Never works out, never.
00:45:12 And Dan always had a plan.
00:45:15 It was like, okay, he's going to be a big end.
00:45:17 He's going to play 25 snaps a game, right?
00:45:20 He's not going to be a sub guy.
00:45:21 You know, hey, we're going to take Michael Parsons.
00:45:24 He's going to be an inside linebacker
00:45:26 and he's also going to be a sub rusher.
00:45:28 You know, everybody we talked about was,
00:45:31 he had a plan for him.
00:45:32 So we were really comfortable with that.
00:45:34 And it made a heck of a lot of sense
00:45:36 because if the coach believes that,
00:45:39 he's going to put them in that role.
00:45:41 And if they're successful in that role,
00:45:43 it makes everybody better.
00:45:44 But if you don't put him in that role
00:45:46 and you try to do something else
00:45:47 that he is not capable of doing,
00:45:50 then he's not going to be successful.
00:45:53 And that's what I was going to say about Beanie Bishop.
00:45:55 And I can say this,
00:45:57 Shadon Brown did an incredible job with Beanie Bishop
00:46:02 because Beanie Bishop was doing exactly
00:46:05 what Beanie Bishop was good at.
00:46:07 He was playing with his eyes.
00:46:08 He was playing off.
00:46:10 He wasn't up in press because he's not a long arm guy.
00:46:12 He's not long, right?
00:46:14 And he used his instincts.
00:46:15 And, you know, Shadon did a great job of coaching it.
00:46:18 And you know what?
00:46:19 Mike Joe did a great job of developing him
00:46:22 and putting strength on him and making him a bigger,
00:46:24 not bigger, but well, thicker and faster athlete.
00:46:28 So yes, there's a lot of parallels.
00:46:32 And the biggest parallel is don't ask players
00:46:35 to do something they cannot do, right?
00:46:38 Now you can try to improve that, right?
00:46:42 And then once you improve that,
00:46:44 well then put them in that situation,
00:46:45 but don't put them in a situation
00:46:47 when they're incapable of doing it.
00:46:49 And I'm not saying Beanie was incapable of playing press,
00:46:53 but with his length, it was better for him to play off.
00:46:57 Right, now he went up in press.
00:46:58 He did a good job.
00:46:59 Don't get me wrong.
00:46:59 But is that something that he's going to hang his hat on
00:47:03 and say, yeah, that's what I am on the press corner.
00:47:05 He's not, you know?
00:47:07 So like I said, I'm saying that it wasn't just,
00:47:12 it wasn't just him coming in
00:47:16 and hitting it at the right situation.
00:47:17 It was the right people developing him
00:47:21 from Shadon to Mike Joseph and putting this way.
00:47:25 And Jordan Leslie saying, okay,
00:47:27 we're going to make certain calls where, you know,
00:47:29 I'm not going to put him in a bad situation either.
00:47:31 So again, I think it's a collaborative
00:47:34 and it is something that does parallel
00:47:38 because again, don't ask somebody to do something
00:47:41 they're incapable of doing, bottom line.
00:47:43 That's how easy it is.
00:47:44 - You were with the, that's well said.
00:47:46 And you were with the Cowboys when,
00:47:48 when you guys drafted Micah Parsons
00:47:49 and this bears on this conversation,
00:47:51 when you drafted Micah Parsons, as I understand it,
00:47:53 you were really after a corner in that draft.
00:47:55 And the top couple of corners that you targeted were taken.
00:47:58 So Micah Parsons, not because of lack of talent,
00:48:01 but he was plan B from a need standpoint, right?
00:48:04 But Micah Parsons is going to be a standout
00:48:06 irrespective of what you do with him.
00:48:07 But what this guy did, what Dan Quinn found a way to do
00:48:11 was really weaponize him and make him a standout
00:48:14 in four or five different spots.
00:48:16 That's the Dan Quinn factor.
00:48:18 So when you talk about Shadon Brown,
00:48:20 you talk about Jordan Leslie, do you see,
00:48:22 and this is the first internal roster question,
00:48:25 do you see somebody on West Virginia
00:48:26 on the defensive side of the bill of the football
00:48:29 from a versatility standpoint,
00:48:31 it doesn't have to be on the back end,
00:48:32 wherever it might be that you can do
00:48:35 some pretty cool things with and get creative.
00:48:37 And maybe that's one of the off season projects
00:48:39 that the staff might be working towards.
00:48:42 - You know, I think that,
00:48:44 I think you may see something done with Aubrey Burks
00:48:46 that may surprise you, okay, later on.
00:48:49 I'm looking forward to seeing Trotter play.
00:48:52 I really am.
00:48:53 I've heard really good things about him.
00:48:55 He's worked his tail off to get where he needs to be.
00:48:57 You know, versatility, you know,
00:49:01 maybe a little bit of Ty French, you know,
00:49:05 because he's played inside and he's played outside
00:49:08 and he's blitzed from both spots.
00:49:11 You know, I prefer to see him coming off the edge,
00:49:13 you know, because he's getting bigger,
00:49:14 faster and stronger already.
00:49:16 But those are the ones, like I said,
00:49:19 I'm not going to say surprise you,
00:49:20 but you know, that I'm kind of looking forward
00:49:22 to see what they're going to do, you know,
00:49:25 because I think we're better athletically,
00:49:28 you know, right now than we were before.
00:49:31 - Just to be a case in point.
00:49:33 I mean, we'll get into some of the personnel
00:49:34 here in a minute, but real quick with Ty French,
00:49:37 weren't some teams prioritizing him as a Mike backer?
00:49:41 - Yes, because he played Mike more.
00:49:44 - Yeah, and he's going to be an edge player for us.
00:49:46 So that speaks to the versatility there,
00:49:48 but all right, jumping topics,
00:49:50 we're going to get into some personnel with him, Owen.
00:49:52 I think people need to hear this story.
00:49:54 First of all, you talked about you've traveled
00:49:56 for the better part of 18 years with the Cowboys,
00:49:58 definitely 14 straight.
00:49:59 I might come to you the next time I go on vacation,
00:50:02 'cause I want to know how many Marriott reward points
00:50:04 you actually have in the bank.
00:50:05 I mean, that's one of the questions I would have,
00:50:07 but share the story about getting pulled over.
00:50:10 There's a Penn State/Auburn connection.
00:50:14 The conversation that took place with the officer
00:50:16 that pulled you over, walk us through that.
00:50:18 I think people would enjoy hearing that.
00:50:21 - I flew into State College,
00:50:23 and there's some times where you can't actually
00:50:27 get back out of the same airport,
00:50:29 or you have to kind of continue down the road,
00:50:31 and you'll do a one-way rental.
00:50:33 And so I pull into, I fly into Penn State,
00:50:37 and it was going to be a one-way rental.
00:50:42 And the young man said, "Oh, you work for the Cowboys?"
00:50:46 And I said, "Yes, sir."
00:50:47 And he goes, "Okay."
00:50:49 He said, "I got your car."
00:50:50 He said, "I only have one that's a one-way rental."
00:50:52 Right?
00:50:53 I go, "Okay."
00:50:54 And I didn't really truly know
00:50:56 until I walked out to the parking lot.
00:50:58 You guys need to look this one up, okay?
00:51:02 It was a Chevy Cobalt, okay?
00:51:05 It was one of the worst little cars
00:51:07 that I've ever seen in my entire life.
00:51:09 It had, seriously, manual windows that I had to roll up,
00:51:14 and no cruise control at all, okay?
00:51:18 And I was driving this all the way to Auburn,
00:51:21 and then back to Atlanta to fly out like nine days later.
00:51:24 Okay?
00:51:25 So I drove that little, you know, POS, okay?
00:51:30 All the way down.
00:51:32 And I'm grumpy the whole way, the whole way.
00:51:36 And I am dog-cussing this young kid out
00:51:38 like you wouldn't believe.
00:51:39 I'm going like, "Okay, yeah, I know he's a Steelers fan,
00:51:41 he's kicking my ass and all that."
00:51:43 Sorry about the language.
00:51:45 So I'm just outside of Auburn,
00:51:47 and I'm riding behind this truck,
00:51:49 and all of a sudden this trooper lights me up.
00:51:51 And I go, "I'm not speeding.
00:51:54 So I'm not doing anything wrong."
00:51:56 And, you know, he pulls me over and he says,
00:51:58 "You know," he says, "you were tailgating."
00:52:01 And I said, "I didn't really realize
00:52:04 I was following that close to the semi."
00:52:06 And he goes, "Well, what are you here for?"
00:52:08 He said, "I see you got out of state plates."
00:52:09 I said, "Well," I said, "I'm going to Auburn."
00:52:12 And he said, "For what?"
00:52:14 And I said, "Well," I said, "I scout for the Cowboys,
00:52:16 and I'm going to evaluate some players there."
00:52:18 Right?
00:52:19 And he says, "Oh."
00:52:20 He said, "So you scout for the Cowboys, huh?"
00:52:22 I said, "Yes, sir."
00:52:23 He said, "Could I get your license and a business card?"
00:52:27 And I said, "Okay."
00:52:29 Well, this guy goes back to his car and I go,
00:52:34 "This guy is really going to write me a ticket."
00:52:36 This took like 15 minutes.
00:52:40 And then I see another trooper pull up behind him.
00:52:44 And I went, "Oh no."
00:52:45 I go, "What the hell is going on?"
00:52:47 - That's never good.
00:52:48 - Yeah, I was like, "Okay."
00:52:50 I mean, are they going to search me?
00:52:52 What are they going to do?
00:52:53 Right?
00:52:54 And the first trooper was probably about six foot tall,
00:52:58 you know, white guy.
00:52:59 And the next one that rolls up is about a six foot
00:53:01 or black guy, right?
00:53:03 The other trooper.
00:53:04 And he goes to the passenger side
00:53:06 instead of going to the driver's side.
00:53:09 And he knocks on my passenger window, right?
00:53:12 And I have to lean over and unwind that damn window.
00:53:17 (laughing)
00:53:20 And he goes, "So," he said, "So you scout for the Cowboys,
00:53:24 huh?"
00:53:25 And I said, "Yes, sir, I do."
00:53:27 And he said, "What the hell is wrong with Tony Romo?
00:53:29 He's my damn fantasy team."
00:53:30 (laughing)
00:53:33 And I went, I said, "I got to be honest with you."
00:53:35 I said, "I scout them."
00:53:37 I said, "I don't coach them."
00:53:38 Right?
00:53:39 And he said, "But what's wrong with him?"
00:53:40 He says, "Is it the women in his life?"
00:53:42 I said, "I really don't know."
00:53:44 And he goes, he just kind of carried the conversation
00:53:46 just a little bit.
00:53:47 But then he goes, "Yeah, and one more damn thing."
00:53:51 He said, "Tell Jerry to rent you a real damn car next time."
00:53:55 (laughing)
00:53:57 And that went, you know?
00:53:59 (laughing)
00:54:00 - Perfect segue.
00:54:02 - Yeah.
00:54:03 - Drew, the car you're currently driving,
00:54:04 the vehicle you're currently driving came from where?
00:54:07 - Came from Texas.
00:54:09 Right?
00:54:11 - I thought it came from Toothman Ford.
00:54:13 - No, that's my wife's.
00:54:15 That's my wife's.
00:54:15 - Your wife's, okay, there we go.
00:54:16 - Yes.
00:54:17 - Way to give JR a shout out there.
00:54:18 There we go.
00:54:19 Okay, your wife's going, okay.
00:54:20 - No, JR did us right because put it this way,
00:54:22 with where we live,
00:54:25 if we wouldn't have had that vehicle,
00:54:27 neither one of us would have been going to work, okay?
00:54:31 Because you don't sure need four wheel drive
00:54:33 to get out of this place now.
00:54:35 And mine is not capable,
00:54:36 so we carpooled it for like all the snow days, you know?
00:54:40 And it wasn't easy, you know?
00:54:41 But yes, JR took very good care of us.
00:54:44 We have a new Yukon.
00:54:45 - Always does.
00:54:46 - That is not mine, trust me, that is hers.
00:54:48 - Okay, okay.
00:54:49 (laughing)
00:54:50 - She loves her Yukon.
00:54:52 She loves her Yukon.
00:54:53 - Let's dovetail into one final cowboy part here.
00:54:57 This is a give and take question.
00:55:00 The situation, oh boy, time gets away from us now.
00:55:03 Must have been a decade now since Johnny Manziel was drafted.
00:55:06 With that draft, you guys were parked
00:55:08 somewhere in the mid-teens
00:55:10 and you were targeting a defender.
00:55:11 You had three defenders you were after.
00:55:13 I think it was Aaron Donald, Ryan Shazier, and Anthony Barr.
00:55:17 And you were targeting those defenders.
00:55:18 Meanwhile, Jerry Jones is sitting in the room,
00:55:20 just enamored, enamored of Johnny football.
00:55:23 All the thoughts are going through his head
00:55:25 about what it might look like
00:55:26 if Johnny football comes out of Texas Stadium
00:55:28 or comes out of Jerry world.
00:55:30 So what ends up happening,
00:55:32 all three defenders are selected ahead of you.
00:55:35 Matter of fact, Shazier might have been a pick
00:55:37 ahead of you by the Steelers.
00:55:38 You're sitting there at 16.
00:55:40 The staff sticks together and decides,
00:55:43 hey, Zach Martin, offensive line out of Notre Dame,
00:55:46 that's our pick.
00:55:47 Much to the chagrin of Jerry Jones,
00:55:49 he wasn't happy about it initially.
00:55:51 He got right with it,
00:55:52 but there was a lot of give and take with that conversation.
00:55:55 Obviously the Zach Martin pick turned out
00:55:57 to work out pretty well for you guys.
00:55:59 But the give and take from your owner
00:56:01 being in the room wanting one thing,
00:56:03 this collaborative effort from the staff,
00:56:05 being confident enough to look the owner in the face
00:56:08 and say, look, our pick,
00:56:09 even despite those three defenders being picked
00:56:12 who were option A, this is the option B
00:56:14 we know works best for us.
00:56:16 Talk about the give and take,
00:56:18 that had to take place in the NFL in the war room,
00:56:21 and the give and take that also has to necessarily
00:56:23 take place at the college level and staff meeting.
00:56:25 - Well, I can tell you this.
00:56:28 Jerry and Steven are very involved in the war room, very.
00:56:33 Steven helped great deal to twist it back to Zach Martin.
00:56:39 And the one thing I can tell you
00:56:42 why Jerry Jones is an incredible businessman
00:56:46 is because he listens.
00:56:48 He listens to everybody.
00:56:50 And he threw things back on me
00:56:52 that I had said three years previous, right?
00:56:56 And went, well, you said,
00:56:57 and I was like, you know, that's pretty darn impressive.
00:57:00 Didn't remember that, you know?
00:57:02 It is a collaborative and it became a collaborative.
00:57:06 And here's the one thing that we started to do
00:57:10 that was later in my career there,
00:57:13 the higher the pick, the safer the pick had to be, okay?
00:57:17 And the off-field character of Johnny Manziel
00:57:21 probably took everybody away from that
00:57:25 and said, this won't work in Dallas, right?
00:57:28 The behavior, right? - Yeah.
00:57:30 - And Zach Martin is one of the cleanest,
00:57:33 you know, best character guys you've ever seen
00:57:36 and ever been around.
00:57:37 And it worked out quite well.
00:57:39 The collaborative in, you know, in a staff room
00:57:44 has gotta be a lot of the same types of things.
00:57:46 But it also has to be some people
00:57:49 that aren't afraid to say what they need to say.
00:57:52 And Neil's good about that.
00:57:54 He doesn't, he may get mad at you,
00:57:56 but, you know, he's gonna listen.
00:57:58 And, you know, and again, if it's best for the team,
00:58:01 he'll run with it.
00:58:02 If it's not, he's the head coach.
00:58:04 He can do whatever he wants, you know?
00:58:06 So, but it is a collaborative
00:58:08 because I think that if you're a leader
00:58:11 and, you know, you wanna make things best for your team,
00:58:14 I think you have to listen to everybody.
00:58:16 Because if you think they're good enough to hire,
00:58:19 why wouldn't they be good enough to listen to?
00:58:22 So that's, I guess I'm trying to answer your question
00:58:26 as best I can, because again, I got a great deal of respect
00:58:31 for the Joneses.
00:58:32 And there's a reason why they're very good businessmen
00:58:35 and they've been very successful,
00:58:37 is because they listen.
00:58:38 They really do.
00:58:40 And trust me, they're good at remembering too now.
00:58:43 They got a good memory now.
00:58:45 So. - It serves them well.
00:58:47 - Yes. - All right, so,
00:58:48 you scouted a ton of players,
00:58:50 thousands upon thousands upon thousands of players
00:58:53 through the years, 18 years is a long time.
00:58:54 A lot of players, a lot of 40s, a lot of hotel rooms.
00:58:58 Give us your favorite West Virginia Mountaineer
00:59:02 that you scouted.
00:59:03 - Carl Joseph.
00:59:06 - Carl Joseph.
00:59:09 And why is that?
00:59:09 - Because I like- - He killed a man in Texas?
00:59:13 - Well, I like secondary guys that hunt.
00:59:16 And I think you guys know exactly what I mean by hunting.
00:59:19 He wasn't sitting back waiting, he was hunting.
00:59:24 And he was productive on the ball.
00:59:26 He lit people up, he had good instincts.
00:59:29 He was better down than he was on the roof, right?
00:59:32 Which I think that's where he ended up playing more,
00:59:35 wasn't strong, but he wasn't free in the NFL.
00:59:38 I liked the demeanor.
00:59:39 He was kind of a quiet kind of assassin kind of guy.
00:59:43 Liked him when we brought him in for the 30 visit.
00:59:46 He would have been a great fit for us.
00:59:49 But he was my favorite just because quite honestly,
00:59:52 I like violence.
00:59:53 - That describes Carl. - The game of football, Drew.
00:59:58 - He's got some violence on his tape without a doubt.
01:00:01 - That's the game of football.
01:00:01 - That describes Carl. - It's losing that.
01:00:03 You know what I mean?
01:00:04 - That's right.
01:00:05 I mean, he can't do what he used to do.
01:00:07 I mean, you just can't anymore.
01:00:11 But like I said, he was my favorite.
01:00:14 And like I said, I came through here probably 10 times
01:00:16 in probably 18 years.
01:00:18 And I did write a lot of players
01:00:20 and they were a lot of my life.
01:00:22 There were some that I was like, okay, what am I here for?
01:00:26 Because we're really not gonna take them.
01:00:29 But I still had to come through
01:00:30 just to go through that process.
01:00:33 - Start a job. - Yeah.
01:00:35 - Let's go word association speed round
01:00:38 as we have some other things to talk about
01:00:40 and we're gonna start winding down, okay?
01:00:42 I'm trying to make it easy on you
01:00:45 from a portal additions standpoint, okay?
01:00:48 I mean, we could spend a half hour on each one of these kids
01:00:51 'cause of how passionate you are
01:00:52 about the additions that we've made.
01:00:54 I'm just gonna throw some names at you.
01:00:56 You give me a sentence or two of quick thoughts.
01:00:58 Warner back Aiden Garns out of Duquesne
01:01:01 who's now a Mountaineer.
01:01:03 - Instinctive, okay.
01:01:05 Great eyes, okay.
01:01:07 Gonna be productive on the ball.
01:01:09 What was that?
01:01:10 - Warner back, VJ Crandall out of Colorado State
01:01:13 who's now a Mountaineer.
01:01:14 - Very good vision, long,
01:01:18 can develop into a solid all around corner.
01:01:21 - They're excited to see both those guys
01:01:25 in spring ball and live ref.
01:01:26 Linebacker, Reed Carrico out of Ohio State.
01:01:30 - Looking forward to seeing what he can do
01:01:33 because there wasn't a lot of tape.
01:01:35 He is willing, he's smart, he's tough.
01:01:38 We'll just have to wait and see what he does in pads
01:01:40 because I haven't seen much of him.
01:01:42 - Okay, we mentioned him earlier.
01:01:46 Edge, Thai, French, Gardner Webb.
01:01:51 What do you see this kid doing?
01:01:53 - Explosive.
01:01:54 He's gonna be a terror off the edge.
01:01:58 He's gonna have to get chipped
01:02:00 or he's gonna be a fag.
01:02:01 - It's not his job, but in space,
01:02:04 can he hold his own even to the boundary,
01:02:05 things like that?
01:02:06 - Yeah. - That's not his job.
01:02:08 - Yeah, but I'm gonna give you this.
01:02:10 And I used to think the same thing
01:02:11 'cause I coached linebackers for a long time.
01:02:14 And then finally, I kept saying,
01:02:16 and Bill goes, I mean, Parcells,
01:02:18 he goes, "You know," he says,
01:02:20 "dropping to the damn numbers 10 yards deep
01:02:22 "is really not that damn hard."
01:02:24 Right?
01:02:25 He said, "It really isn't."
01:02:27 He said, "Don't overestimate space ability
01:02:32 "with pass rush ability."
01:02:34 He said, "It doesn't really flip them back."
01:02:36 He said, "These guys are here to end drives,
01:02:39 "not to cover a flipping back out of the backfield."
01:02:42 So, and again, I know he's gonna have to do it
01:02:45 here and there, but his life is gonna be rushing the passer.
01:02:49 So keep going.
01:02:50 - Speaking of rushing the passer,
01:02:52 defensive line at a Troy T.J. Jackson.
01:02:55 He's already 270 plus.
01:02:56 Isn't he talking about versatility?
01:02:58 What can he bring?
01:02:59 - He can bring, like you said,
01:03:01 he can bring sub rush plus he can, on the move now,
01:03:04 he's really, really explosive
01:03:05 and he can change direction really well.
01:03:08 The defense that he was playing in
01:03:10 was really close to what we do,
01:03:12 which is gonna be good for him
01:03:13 because he'll be ahead of the game.
01:03:15 He'll put a lot of pressure on a lot of players
01:03:18 that are already here.
01:03:19 - Locker room alpha, right?
01:03:22 - Yes.
01:03:23 - Like that.
01:03:25 Big bodied wide receiver at Oklahoma State, Jaden Bray.
01:03:28 - And again, I think I told you this.
01:03:35 My little two terms, okay?
01:03:38 He fits and it came from Monty Kiffin, right?
01:03:41 Big and fast, right?
01:03:43 He's big and fast.
01:03:45 He works hard.
01:03:46 He's a little bit raw.
01:03:47 He's gonna get better as a route runner,
01:03:50 but to have two long outside receivers,
01:03:55 you're gonna have to deal with us
01:03:56 a little bit differently now.
01:03:58 - Offensive line at a Jack State,
01:04:00 West Virginia kid, Xavier Bosley.
01:04:04 Did a good job at that level.
01:04:06 He needs to develop with Mike Joseph
01:04:09 and he's got a chance to start eventually.
01:04:12 - Same approach.
01:04:15 We're gonna stick with the speed round.
01:04:16 We're gonna talk about some current kids
01:04:18 on the roster that are back.
01:04:20 What do you see as the next step for some of these kids?
01:04:22 Cole Taylor, tight end.
01:04:24 - He needs to improve on his blocking
01:04:29 to be a more complete tight end
01:04:31 and his ability to get in and out of his routes.
01:04:34 So here we go again.
01:04:35 I'm punching holes in everybody.
01:04:37 - That's your job.
01:04:38 That's why we're asking.
01:04:39 - See, now everybody's gonna say,
01:04:40 well, he's really negative about everybody.
01:04:42 No, I'm not.
01:04:43 - Honest, that's right.
01:04:46 - Hey, that's going for Cole, man.
01:04:47 - Just assume that before all of these,
01:04:51 Drew is saying in his mind,
01:04:52 with all due respect, right?
01:04:54 - I don't even see that.
01:04:56 - Drew and I talk about these kids.
01:04:58 He has plenty of positive things
01:05:00 to say about all of these kids.
01:05:01 Trust me, I've heard, right?
01:05:03 - Yeah, this is quick and dirty though.
01:05:05 This is to go to the league, go to the next level, be elite.
01:05:08 I mean, I love this.
01:05:09 - Left tackle, Wyatt Milam.
01:05:11 - Needs to improve his core strength and his lower strength.
01:05:15 He needs to improve his posture and his set.
01:05:18 And he will be a very complete player
01:05:21 that will play 10 years in the league.
01:05:23 - Next step for both Jaheim and CJ at running back.
01:05:27 - Jaheim needs to improve his pass protection.
01:05:32 He needs to be even a bigger factor
01:05:34 out in space as a receiver.
01:05:37 CJ is coming off the surgery.
01:05:40 He needs to run like a big man.
01:05:42 - You talked about Trotter.
01:05:44 Let's get a quick hit.
01:05:46 What do you think the next step for the two young backers,
01:05:48 Ben Cutter, Trey Latham?
01:05:50 - Ben Cutter needs to improve in space.
01:05:52 He needs to improve his flexibility,
01:05:54 more coverage, more than versus the run.
01:05:56 He got better versus the run.
01:05:59 And Latham just coming off of his leg,
01:06:03 he's going to have to really concentrate
01:06:05 on his lower flexibility and improving in coverage.
01:06:08 But that's where- - We saw-
01:06:10 - Go ahead.
01:06:12 - Perfect.
01:06:13 Let's jump to Garrett.
01:06:14 We saw sack avoidance, ball security, big plays,
01:06:18 ability to extend plays.
01:06:21 We talk about, when we talk about quarterbacks,
01:06:22 accuracy, anticipation, poise, toughness, intelligence.
01:06:26 I mean, you and I have compared our lists.
01:06:28 Let's talk about, from an accuracy standpoint,
01:06:31 we've seen the touch there.
01:06:32 He just doesn't call on it.
01:06:34 I don't understand that, Drew.
01:06:35 It's like, sometimes he will drop it in the bucket,
01:06:38 like the seven cut to Jaheim against Cincinnati.
01:06:40 That was a touch throw, but he doesn't do it.
01:06:43 Why does it only show up in spurts?
01:06:46 What does he need to do to take the next step?
01:06:48 Because I see him having an incredible,
01:06:50 incredible season in '24.
01:06:53 - I just think he needs to understand
01:06:55 that not every pro needs to be a fastball.
01:06:58 He needs to be able to throw a change.
01:07:00 And I think he started to get better,
01:07:02 but still, everybody says that,
01:07:04 hey, the deep balls were really accurate.
01:07:08 They really weren't.
01:07:09 He hit a few here and there,
01:07:12 but there was a lot of flat balls.
01:07:14 And I think it comes from his release
01:07:16 and his lower overstrides and understrides,
01:07:20 which he'll progress with.
01:07:22 - Hey, so you adjusted your, yeah, there you go.
01:07:25 - Yeah, but it-
01:07:26 - And what does it say?
01:07:27 The biggest thing is touch.
01:07:29 He hasn't developed consistent touch.
01:07:31 - That's right.
01:07:33 I think the key word's consistent
01:07:34 because that's what's frustrating.
01:07:35 There are certain throws I saw him make
01:07:37 that you're just like, wow,
01:07:38 that's dropping it in the trash can from 25 yards away,
01:07:41 but it's just not always there.
01:07:43 What does it say about the program at large,
01:07:45 the culture of the program,
01:07:47 that we've been able to retain our top two
01:07:49 in both those rooms we just talked about?
01:07:51 We're bringing back Garrett.
01:07:54 I tell you what, the fact that Nico
01:07:56 is so all in to this football team
01:07:58 is instrumental and massive
01:08:01 that we can bring two quarterbacks of that caliber back.
01:08:05 And the same can be said for CJ and Jaheim.
01:08:08 - Yeah, I totally agree.
01:08:10 You know, now with CJ and Jaheim,
01:08:12 it's kind of that, you know,
01:08:14 we always used to say you need one pounder
01:08:16 and you need one change of pace.
01:08:18 And that's where they kind of fit.
01:08:20 You know, they're kind of a yin and yang
01:08:22 as far as that goes.
01:08:23 That's why I think they can coexist
01:08:26 because they kind of know their carries, right?
01:08:29 Can't say enough about, you know,
01:08:30 Nico being a flipping total team player
01:08:34 and developing more every flipping day.
01:08:36 You know, he's got all the traits
01:08:39 to be very, very successful.
01:08:41 I mean, you know, big and fast, right?
01:08:44 You want to talk about a great arm.
01:08:46 I mean, he can drop it in, you know, he can drive it.
01:08:50 You know, the one thing he just needs to understand
01:08:52 is how to play offense better and process things quicker.
01:08:55 But to keep him around was huge
01:08:57 because, you know, he can walk in a win game,
01:09:00 you know, easily if Garrett goes down.
01:09:03 And, you know, again, the one thing I'd like to have
01:09:05 is I'd like to have somebody behind him too,
01:09:08 coming up young, you know,
01:09:10 and be the same kind of team player that he is
01:09:12 because, you know, hey, if Garrett goes down,
01:09:15 Nico takes over.
01:09:17 If, you know, when Garrett's done, it's Nico's team.
01:09:21 And I think he knows that, which, you know,
01:09:23 he'll be successful when that time comes.
01:09:26 - This would have been impressive in any era,
01:09:28 but in this era with kids running away
01:09:32 from any ounce of adversity, him bear hugging it,
01:09:35 I just feel like once he gets on the other side of this,
01:09:38 when it is his, it's going to make him bulletproof.
01:09:41 So let's stick to the same speed round.
01:09:44 Draft Zach Frazier.
01:09:47 You see that rapidly changing.
01:09:49 I was about to butt in here and say,
01:09:51 we're over 60 minutes here
01:09:52 and we haven't gotten Drew's thoughts on Zach Frazier.
01:09:55 I wanted to make sure we got this in.
01:09:57 This doesn't have to be as quick of a fire here, Drew.
01:09:59 I got to hear your thoughts on our guy, Zach.
01:10:01 - This was really easy.
01:10:03 When I evaluated him right there in August, you know,
01:10:07 I said, he's at top of the third round, right?
01:10:10 And I said, you know, he's not great at the second level
01:10:14 because he doesn't finish his feet with his hands.
01:10:16 He'll get in contact and just never finished his feet.
01:10:20 You know, which, you know,
01:10:20 he wasn't sustaining at the second level,
01:10:23 but I told him that like week two
01:10:25 and he started working on it.
01:10:27 He started, you know, because he's very coachable.
01:10:30 I mean, great character, works his tail off.
01:10:33 I mean, day in and day out.
01:10:35 What I like about him is his upper body torque
01:10:37 because I love wrestlers, you know,
01:10:39 it's because of the balance factor.
01:10:41 I told him, I said, you know, I said, once you go down
01:10:44 and I tried to help him prepare for, you know,
01:10:46 the interview process down at the senior bowl
01:10:48 and what's going to happen at the combine.
01:10:50 And just to have him understand what they're looking for.
01:10:54 I said, you know, heck, I said,
01:10:56 once the people get to know him,
01:10:58 I said, he's going to go with probably,
01:11:01 if you want one and you need one,
01:11:03 he's probably going to the top of the second.
01:11:05 I don't think he gets through the middle
01:11:06 of the second round now,
01:11:08 just because people know what he is.
01:11:10 And, you know, the people kept coming up to me,
01:11:14 scouts go, is it really true?
01:11:16 You know, is everybody really in love with this kid?
01:11:18 Is he really all that?
01:11:20 Well, yeah, he really is.
01:11:22 And again, if you want a pure professional already,
01:11:27 he's already there.
01:11:28 Now, will he really run that room?
01:11:31 Maybe not, but he'll be an integral part of it.
01:11:34 And he'll make all the calls.
01:11:35 He'll make all the like IDs.
01:11:37 He'll change the protection.
01:11:39 He's smart enough, tough enough.
01:11:40 And guess what?
01:11:42 He'll start for a long time.
01:11:44 He will, you know, barring injury.
01:11:46 And him hopping off the field and being that aware
01:11:51 of the situation, speaks volumes of what he is,
01:11:54 not just toughness wise,
01:11:56 but just awareness wise of this game.
01:11:59 So I tried to make it as short as I could,
01:12:02 but no, I really, I like the young man a lot.
01:12:05 I really do.
01:12:06 - We figured out how to get rid of the Reaper.
01:12:10 You talk about Zach Frazier and the Reaper goes away, right?
01:12:12 - Well, you know what's funny though,
01:12:13 is I mean, I did tell you the negatives
01:12:15 right off the bat though, didn't I?
01:12:16 - Yeah, yeah. - That's true.
01:12:17 That's true.
01:12:18 That's true.
01:12:19 Okay, so speaking of negatives, all right,
01:12:21 one thing that I asked you to do,
01:12:24 I texted you a couple of days ago
01:12:25 and we were coordinating this.
01:12:27 Here comes some fun, guys.
01:12:28 - Oh, I was gonna say,
01:12:29 this is a good way to wrap this thing.
01:12:32 - Just imagine, I mean, we'll bring Drew back on
01:12:34 'cause he and I wanna talk big picture
01:12:36 college football stuff,
01:12:37 but at some point we just gotta wrap this up, right?
01:12:40 But I texted Drew a couple of days ago and I said,
01:12:43 "Hey, this will be fun."
01:12:44 And I shot him like a 13 minute highlight video.
01:12:47 I said, "Just imagine if it's 2008,
01:12:50 "you got your scouts cap on,
01:12:52 "what would you have had to say
01:12:53 "in your scouting assessment,
01:12:55 "your scouting eval of fullback Owen Schmidt
01:12:57 "coming out of West Virginia?
01:12:59 "What would that look like?"
01:13:01 - Do you remember? - 10 minutes later,
01:13:01 he calls me, "I don't need to do it.
01:13:03 "I already have it."
01:13:04 He said, "I did do that.
01:13:05 "I scouted the kid."
01:13:07 So Drew, let's hear it.
01:13:08 - Well, first thing,
01:13:11 this is gonna be a little bit of comic relief, Owen,
01:13:13 because again, in 2008,
01:13:17 you were close to being a dinosaur then, okay?
01:13:20 You are an incredible dinosaur now
01:13:23 because there may be two teams
01:13:26 that even carry a fullback, right?
01:13:30 Well, knowing how I wrote you before,
01:13:34 I was like, "Prototype, ISO, fullback."
01:13:37 Now, I don't know how many people will understand
01:13:41 when I say ISO fullback, right?
01:13:44 But an isolation fullback is,
01:13:46 you're gonna take that linebacker
01:13:48 and you're gonna dish his ass as deep as you can,
01:13:51 as hard as you can,
01:13:52 and open up the hole vertically, okay?
01:13:55 Not horizontally, but vertically, right?
01:13:58 That's what Owen Schmidt was, okay?
01:14:00 And again, I'm giving a negative here, right?
01:14:05 The shorter arms kind of hurt you as a pass receiver
01:14:08 because it kind of pulled you off balance, right?
01:14:11 Because when balls were outside of your frame,
01:14:13 it kind of screwed you, right?
01:14:15 But you had good hands.
01:14:16 You weren't good laterally in the adjusts, okay,
01:14:21 at the second level, right?
01:14:23 But if he got a hold of you now,
01:14:25 you were displaced big time.
01:14:27 And actually, actually a pretty good runner too.
01:14:30 Physical runner, kind of what I was talking about with CJ,
01:14:34 he ran big and did not take it as,
01:14:39 hey, I'm not going down with an arm tackle.
01:14:40 I'm not going down with a side tackle.
01:14:42 You're gonna have to bring at least two or three
01:14:44 to bring me down.
01:14:45 I think I remember that I said you had like two teams value,
01:14:51 okay, just because of kind of the lack of lateral mobility
01:14:54 in space, but you would have been, like I said,
01:14:57 you'd have been a textbook prototype, ISO fullback.
01:15:00 If people would have wanted you in that role,
01:15:03 which not many teams have that role anymore,
01:15:05 you would have fit perfectly.
01:15:06 So hope that was-
01:15:08 - I'll take it as a compliment.
01:15:09 - Well, you should.
01:15:11 - Of course you should.
01:15:13 - There's not many of it.
01:15:15 And again, what did I say?
01:15:16 You're a dinosaur now.
01:15:17 - Oh yeah.
01:15:18 - Yeah, so hope that, like I said,
01:15:22 that was very constructive,
01:15:23 but that's exactly what I saw when I was here writing.
01:15:25 - I love it.
01:15:27 - You were a star in Jurassic Park.
01:15:28 - My grandfather would agree with you.
01:15:30 - Well, good, good.
01:15:35 - Next time we'll have you scout Drew, Owen.
01:15:38 That's what we'll do.
01:15:38 We'll flip it around.
01:15:39 - Oh, hey, I was a reject now.
01:15:42 I was a straight reject.
01:15:43 Short little guy, got busted out.
01:15:46 - I don't wanna hear what Drew has to say about me.
01:15:48 I really don't.
01:15:49 I don't think I'd look in a mirror after it was over.
01:15:53 I was like, holy cow.
01:15:55 - No, my coach might be coming down here for the clinic,
01:16:00 Joe Penunzio, he's up with the Eagles.
01:16:02 He was my position coach in college, right?
01:16:05 - Is that right?
01:16:06 - He may be coming down for the clinic.
01:16:07 Yeah, 'cause he said-
01:16:08 - Oh, that'd be really cool, yeah.
01:16:10 - Yeah, and he'll tell you,
01:16:12 I was a little guy that got busted up.
01:16:13 It was pretty good to start out with,
01:16:15 but once I got busted up, I was done, you know?
01:16:18 So, you know, again, I'm very self-aware.
01:16:21 - You always tell Garrett, you gotta be smart, right?
01:16:25 You gotta be smart.
01:16:25 - No, no, self-preservationist, I always say.
01:16:28 - Yeah.
01:16:29 - Be a self-preservationist.
01:16:30 - Stay out of the way of those things, you know?
01:16:32 - Right.
01:16:33 - Let's let you close with this.
01:16:35 - Pardon?
01:16:35 - Let's let you close with this.
01:16:37 I've heard you discuss how much you appreciate the fandom
01:16:42 at West Virginia football.
01:16:46 You talked about the Pitt game.
01:16:47 You ranked it right up there with the Iron Bowl,
01:16:49 right up there with Tennessee, Georgia.
01:16:51 How impressed you were by the environment
01:16:53 at Mountaineer Field when we smoked those Panthers.
01:16:55 So talk to the fans directly,
01:16:58 that's who listens to this podcast,
01:17:00 about what they mean to what you guys
01:17:03 are building in Morgantown.
01:17:05 - I'll tell you what, what they can bring is,
01:17:08 I don't even think they know.
01:17:10 I mean, not so much just the audible level of it,
01:17:15 but when they're in the game and they're on top
01:17:19 of when they should be very audible and loud
01:17:21 and everything else, it brings energy
01:17:24 to everybody on that field.
01:17:26 And I don't think they know that,
01:17:28 but those kids, they feed off of it.
01:17:31 They really do.
01:17:32 And I love how passionate these people are,
01:17:35 because again, it's not just,
01:17:38 hey, we're going to the game.
01:17:39 No, we're going to the game.
01:17:41 And they're showing up like at 10 for a seven o'clock game.
01:17:45 And they're out there getting lubed up, getting ready.
01:17:49 And you can tell.
01:17:50 And just like the old hats that show up in the end zone,
01:17:53 just like everybody that's around, I mean, you can feel it,
01:17:58 but I'd like to be able to have that atmosphere there
01:18:01 every single flipping week.
01:18:05 You know, because again, they have no idea
01:18:09 what it does to those kids.
01:18:10 And when you're on the sideline, you can kind of see it.
01:18:13 And once it starts rolling and they start feeling it,
01:18:16 they start making plays, because what's funny is
01:18:19 these kids, it's weird.
01:18:21 This year was like, somebody was waiting to make a play.
01:18:27 I said this to you on the sideline, I think.
01:18:29 I said, you know, I said,
01:18:31 they're just waiting for somebody to make a play.
01:18:33 Well, once somebody made that play,
01:18:35 well, then the whole place erupted
01:18:37 and then the whole team erupted.
01:18:40 And then that's when we started stoking the fire.
01:18:43 And like I said, I hope these people understand
01:18:46 how important they are and what they've done,
01:18:48 because it's real.
01:18:50 I mean, it really is.
01:18:51 And when they're on pace and they're doing,
01:18:54 and they're getting loud when they need to get loud,
01:18:55 I mean, hey, it's second along, third along.
01:18:58 I mean, you know, how many procedure penalties they get?
01:19:01 Like four?
01:19:02 I mean, it needs to be like that every single flipping week.
01:19:07 And again, if we're successful,
01:19:11 which I feel we're going to be,
01:19:13 it'll just keep feeding on each other.
01:19:15 It really will.
01:19:16 - They're trying to acquire talent.
01:19:18 You have kids at those games.
01:19:20 I mean, that has such a massive impact
01:19:23 on helping you do that part of your job.
01:19:25 - Yeah, yeah.
01:19:26 And put it this way,
01:19:27 just like when everybody sticks around,
01:19:28 you know, for country roads,
01:19:30 everybody sticks around late in the game.
01:19:32 They're not leaving, you know, they're there.
01:19:35 I mean, that shows those kids
01:19:36 that it's really important to these people.
01:19:39 Well, what I'm trying to tell the people
01:19:41 that are going to those games,
01:19:42 it's important to the kids.
01:19:44 It really is.
01:19:45 And I hope they understand that.
01:19:47 You know, like I said,
01:19:48 I'd love to see it like Pittsburgh every flipping week,
01:19:52 because you have no idea how that affects other teams.
01:19:56 No idea.
01:19:57 'Cause it's hard.
01:19:59 I mean, everybody will tell you about the play.
01:20:02 You know, not just here,
01:20:03 but a home crowd that gets into it
01:20:05 will actually affect the game.
01:20:07 That's why, put it this way,
01:20:09 why do you think that bookies
01:20:11 usually give three points to the home team?
01:20:15 - Yeah.
01:20:15 - Right?
01:20:16 It's not because you play better at home.
01:20:19 It's because the crowd has an effect
01:20:22 and you do play better at home
01:20:23 when a crowd is truly, you know, part of the game.
01:20:27 So again, you see even, well, if it's even,
01:20:30 well, then the underdog isn't a very good football team.
01:20:34 Right?
01:20:35 So, but again, I said too much,
01:20:38 but like I said,
01:20:39 - That's three minutes for the time cap still right there.
01:20:43 That's what that is.
01:20:43 - Guys, that was a beautiful way to wrap this up.
01:20:47 That was perfect.
01:20:49 Yeah. Once we wrap up Spring Ball,
01:20:51 we'll get things sorted through
01:20:52 with the next round of Portal acquisitions and additions.
01:20:55 And we'll bring you back around
01:20:57 'cause this is exactly the type of stuff
01:20:59 that people eat with such a big spoon.
01:21:00 I mean, fans can't get enough of this type of content
01:21:03 because you bring an insight.
01:21:05 First of all, it's new age.
01:21:07 It hasn't been going on that long.
01:21:09 People are still trying to wrap their heads around
01:21:11 what exactly a guy like you would do.
01:21:14 And I think people are starting to appreciate
01:21:16 the tremendous value that you confer upon a team
01:21:20 like the Mountaineers.
01:21:21 It's amazing.
01:21:22 The role that you play is as critical
01:21:24 as anybody who's on the staff.
01:21:25 And we've got a great staff put together under Neil Brown,
01:21:28 but it's so great having you on here.
01:21:30 We'll double back and bring you back again
01:21:31 when there's more to talk about following the Spring.
01:21:33 But guys, this has been awesome.
01:21:35 - Well, I really appreciate it, man.
01:21:39 - Yeah. It's been a pleasure.
01:21:40 And like I said, at any time, like I said,
01:21:42 just yell at me and we'll try to make it work out later.
01:21:44 Okay?
01:21:45 - Absolutely.
01:21:46 - All right, now I'm gonna go eat some pasta.
01:21:48 I'm gonna have a little bit of wine.
01:21:49 Okay? So just follow me.
01:21:50 - I love it. I love it.
01:21:51 - Enjoy your night, big dog.
01:21:53 - Oh, by the way, we need to tell you.
01:21:54 Hey, Drew?
01:21:55 - Yes, sir?
01:21:56 - The last guest we had on this show,
01:21:59 wouldn't you know it, a week later, he's on Jimmy Kimmel.
01:22:02 So you better be ready.
01:22:03 Who knows what's coming for you?
01:22:04 - Yeah, we had Charles Wesley Godwin on last week
01:22:07 and now he's going on Jimmy Kimmel.
01:22:09 So who knows?
01:22:10 Fallon might be calling you in a few days or Conan,
01:22:13 you know, so have your phone on.
01:22:15 - Well, what was funny is I told Jed Washington,
01:22:18 the commanders want me to go on their podcast,
01:22:20 you know, for Dan and Joe Witt.
01:22:22 - Yep.
01:22:23 - But I'm gonna tell you one thing.
01:22:25 We went to the baseball kickoff
01:22:27 and Charles was incredibly cordial to myself and my wife.
01:22:32 And I told Wayne that, I said, thank him for that
01:22:35 because he did a great job with his performance there.
01:22:38 And what a great dude.
01:22:39 - Oh man, one of a kind.
01:22:41 - Yeah, great dude.
01:22:42 - Well, we've had some A-listers here this off season.
01:22:47 Drew Fabianich, another one of those.
01:22:49 Drew, thank you so much for the time.
01:22:51 We will talk again soon.
01:22:52 And I can't wait for you to see that crowd
01:22:55 come to life by itself, August 31st,
01:22:58 when those Penn State Nittany Lions come to town as well too.
01:23:01 That's gonna be bonkers.
01:23:03 That's gonna be bonkers.
01:23:04 That'll do it for this edition of ITG.
01:23:06 Thanks everybody.
01:23:07 The one thing we ask of you before we go
01:23:09 as always is to be an ear and tell an ear
01:23:11 about your new favorite WVU football podcast.
01:23:15 For Drew Fabianich, the signal caller Jed Drenning,
01:23:17 and the runaway beer truck, Owen Schmidt,
01:23:19 I'm Wesley Uhler.
01:23:20 Take care, everybody.
01:23:21 We'll talk to you next week.
01:23:22 You've been in the gun.
01:23:23 Thank you.
01:23:24 (door opening)
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