Former Gonzaga All-American Dan Dickau and Gonzaga Nation reporter Cole Forsman break down the keys to victory for the Bulldogs in their matchup against the Wildcats.
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00:00 Nation here, Dan Dickow alongside Cole Forsman, our terrific journalist, as we get set to preview
00:07 an enormous game on Gonzaga's calendar. Well, this game has been circled for fans, I'm sure,
00:15 since last year when it was announced, even though when it was announced, they didn't know
00:19 the dates. It's year two of a six-year series between Gonzaga and Kentucky. This year's game
00:25 being played at Rupp Arena after last year's Gonzaga win was played at Spokane Arena.
00:30 It's a big one. So first off, Cole, glad to be back in a conversation to preview with you.
00:37 What are your early thoughts in regards to this Kentucky game?
00:42 Hey, Dan. Yeah, well, first off, I think this is just a great matchup for college basketball,
00:50 put right in the smack of what's usually conference play for both these teams. This
00:57 was sort of a thing back a few years ago. Mark Few and John Calipari, when he was at Memphis,
01:04 actually did this a few times where they scheduled a February one-off. So I think,
01:10 and it even adds to the fact that both teams are sort of in a desperation mode in their own right.
01:14 Gonzaga is sort of fighting for their NCAA tournament at large hopes. Kentucky has lost,
01:21 I think, now three of the last four, if I'm not mistaken. They're sort of slipping in the AP poll
01:28 and their NCAA tournament seed is sort of slipping as of late. So two teams in college basketball
01:36 that have an enormous brand at this point facing off in February. That's something that we don't
01:45 get treated a lot to these days. So I think we need to appreciate that to start. But yeah, Kentucky
01:51 is easily going to be Gonzaga's, I think, toughest challenge on the road this season.
01:56 The Wildcats, one of the more potent offenses in the country, leading the nation in scoring.
02:03 They have probably five freshmen that are sort of in consideration to be NBA draft picks
02:10 this upcoming summer. And so talented team all around. But yeah, those are sort of just my
02:17 thoughts. We're going to get more into it right now, but I just want to hear your thoughts too,
02:23 as well, before we really... Yeah, I think you hit on a lot of really good emphasis points in ways
02:28 that we can kind of take the conversation. I mean, Kentucky has slid a little bit as of late,
02:32 and a lot of that's due to just how good the SEC is. A lot of people talked early on about how good
02:38 the Big 12 is, but the SEC might be as good or better than the Big 12 this season. I mean, you
02:44 look at Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee. Tennessee might be a dark horse Final Four candidate, maybe
02:51 that surprises some people. And then you look at this Kentucky team in particular.
02:59 Yeah, they score the ball like crazy. They've got some really talented freshmen. When you look at
03:04 the Ken Palm numbers, they are fifth in efficiency on the offensive end. Those are numbers that
03:09 Gonzaga is used to kind of being in. Gonzaga having led the country in scoring for the last
03:14 five seasons. Right now, they're, I believe, 12th in points per game. But as far as efficiency,
03:21 Gonzaga is 28th, which is still really darn good. It's just not as good as they've been in some of
03:27 the past years. Defensively, the numbers favor Gonzaga. Ken Palm, their defensive efficiency
03:34 sits at 33rd in the country, where Kentucky is 102nd in defensive efficiency per Ken Palm. So,
03:41 you know, when you look at this matchup, both teams want to play fast. Both teams are very
03:45 good offensively. Kentucky, I think with their youth and their inexperience, can get lost
03:52 occasionally defensively. And so I think Gonzaga's got an opportunity to pick up this quad win
03:57 on the road, simply because Kentucky tries to outscore you more than grind it out defensively,
04:05 where St. Mary's a matchup for Gonzaga. That one's a lot different. And it might be more
04:10 difficult when you have St. Mary's team that is as connected as they are, and they've got as much
04:16 experience together as they do. Whereas if it's a tight ball game and it's close, you know,
04:22 Kentucky doesn't have that togetherness of multiple difficult games and stretches over
04:28 a couple of years that they can rely and lean upon. And maybe that's something that Gonzaga
04:32 can take advantage of. You know, I think it's going to be a very high scoring game,
04:36 which suits both teams. But at the end of the day, it might come down to who can battle the,
04:42 who can control the glass and who can execute their defensive game plan best. You know,
04:49 Kentucky's got five guys that are in leading, in double figures, led by Antonio Reeves at nearly
04:56 20 a game. Rob Dillingham, to me, is a really interesting young player. You want to talk about,
05:02 there's a like a go button that any, every time he touches the ball, he's trying to do something.
05:07 That's Rob Dillingham, nearly 16 points a game in only 24 minutes. So, you know, we've talked about
05:13 Braden Huff being kind of instant scoring off the bench. You know, Dillingham is instant scoring
05:18 whenever he gets in the game as well. He's ultra aggressive. The freshman for, you know, UConn
05:24 that I really like that I think Gonzaga has to limit is Reed Shepard, a tremendous shooter.
05:32 He's shooting it over 53% from beyond the three point line. And it's not on unlimited attempts.
05:38 It's, I mean, he's searching them out. He's got over 50 makes on the year. He hits over two of
05:42 them per game. So you, you got to be able to locate him. And, you know, it's going to be
05:48 curious to see what kind of defensive tactics Gonzaga employs. Do they switch everything like
05:53 they did against St. Mary's with the ball screens? And if you do, you got to make sure you understand
05:59 and know personnel. And if you get rolled down into the post, you can switch back out and hand
06:04 guys off in rotation. So just a couple of things to look at and to think about as far as I'm
06:10 concerned in looking at this game. - Yeah. And I really liked your point about, yeah,
06:15 Gonzaga is not going to win this game trying to make it a 68 to 64 game. Like that's just not
06:22 going to work against Kentucky. You know, South Carolina, I was watching that game and I kind of
06:29 saw how they, they played at a much slower pace, but what I really took note is that they really
06:33 took advantage of Kentucky's sort of lackluster pick and roll defense. And so I think that's
06:39 where a lot of their defensive inconsistencies come from. But you talk about the defense,
06:47 they're 102nd now in Kempom, which is the low or the worst it's been in John Calperi era.
06:56 But offensively, their tempo is 11th in the country and that's also the best. So it's a
07:01 team that likes to run, it's a team that likes to shoot a lot of threes, which we don't usually,
07:05 we haven't seen a whole lot of from Cal's teams, but for Gonzaga, you know, they're 12 and 0 when
07:12 they score 80. And so what, they're five and six when they don't or something like that. So
07:21 this is a game where they're going to need to push the pace. I agree. What is, I guess,
07:27 I don't want to say concerning for me in that regard, but what I think about when
07:30 Gonzaga pushes the pace, they also like to try to crash the offensive glass.
07:36 They're one of the better teams in the WCC and I think top 35 in the country at doing that.
07:41 So I'm wondering, you know, with, and a lot of it comes from Ben Gregg, just trying to make
07:45 hustle plays. Grant Meekay does a lot of that as well, just naturally being down there.
07:51 I think about him in that regard, staying out of foul trouble, I'll probably touch on that in
07:59 a little bit more, but I think about offensive rebounding for Gonzaga, is that, does that bode
08:04 well for them in a matchup against Kentucky that pretty much just likes to take the ball right off
08:09 the rim and run. And so I think that's something to watch out for as well as just keeping pace
08:19 with the offense, but also making the right play. Like I mentioned, South Carolina did a lot of
08:23 just slowing it down, taking advantage of pick and roll, back cut, just be fast, but don't be out of
08:30 control. And I think Gonzaga has done that a little bit at times this season. And then to go back on
08:37 the defensive end for Gonzaga, I think their best offense that they've probably beaten this year per
08:44 Ken Palm is USC, which is I think 90th or something like that. So they haven't seen a whole lot of
08:52 this. This is the third top five offense they're going to face actually, UConn and Purdue were both
08:58 in that top five as of right now, and Gonzaga played well in stretches. They haven't allowed
09:04 an opponent score over 80 points. They've only allowed that once this season. It was the San
09:09 Diego State. So that's actually pretty impressive for them considering the pace that they play with.
09:13 But back to my, I guess, original point, just do you agree that Gonzaga goes a lot for offensive
09:20 rebounds and kind of crashes the glass? And does that sort of bode well in a matchup like this?
09:25 Yeah, I think you had a lot of really good thoughts and points about focus and emphasis
09:31 points for Gonzaga in this game. You know, crashing the offensive glass, it's one of those
09:38 things where you do have to be selective, but you don't want to take it out of your DNA, right? With
09:44 Ben Gregg, that's one of his strengths. You got to allow him the flexibility and the freedom to do
09:50 that. Same with Graham E.K. as well as Anton Watson when he gets a chance. Braden Huff at times has
09:56 been really opportunistic on that offensive glass. I think where it comes down to offensive
10:00 rebounding is with your guards. Do you send them straight back in defensive transition or do you
10:07 have them run to the top of the key and be prepared for long rebounds? And then at that point, when
10:14 the ball comes off, make your decision as to what to do. Go for it or get back in transition.
10:21 So I don't think there's going to be a ton of emphasis on changing how they go to the glass.
10:28 I think it's going to be more of being mindful of getting back in defensive transition and talking
10:33 that out. He also had a good point about pick and roll defense. You know, and this will be important
10:40 on both sides of the ball for Gonzaga. You know, with attacking a younger Kentucky team with pick
10:47 and rolls, many times young players at all levels, whether it's college freshmen or it's rookies and
10:53 young players in the NBA, struggle with that exact nuance of the game just because you're going
10:58 against more experienced players, some more talented players, better in different schemes
11:03 and better spacing. So, you know, Gonzaga is very dependent on ball screens. You know, Ryan Nembhard
11:09 gets a number of them throughout the game in different angles. Nolan Hickman, you know, that
11:13 LMU game, Nolan Hickman was, you know, really good in ball screen reads. And I talked to coach Brian
11:19 Michelson and Stephen Gentry before the St. Mary's game. And they said Nolan was almost perfect with
11:28 his ball screen reads that game, whether it was shot decision making for himself or playmaking
11:33 decision for others, or if there's nothing there, quick advances. So, you know, that kind of bodes
11:38 well with the experience factor of how you attack it. And, you know, defensively, same thing. Hickman
11:45 and Nembhard, they're third year college players and they've played in a lot of big games and a lot
11:49 of against a lot of good players. So you would imagine and think that they would be able to switch
11:55 up their ball screen coverage and take advantage defensively how to cover things up much better
12:01 than a freshman would. Now, you know, that's also saying, you know, you also got to give Kentucky's
12:07 freshmen credit because they're pretty darn good players and they are talented in their own right.
12:11 So that is a thing to keep in mind and look out. You know, one other thing that, you know,
12:18 will be interesting and it's going to be fun to track is Nolan Hickman. I mentioned he's been
12:21 he was terrific against LMU. He struggled a little against St. Mary's and then, you know,
12:27 against Portland, I think, you know, didn't really have the opportunities maybe that he had had in
12:31 other games, you know, to get going. But this is a big game for Nolan because he initially signed
12:38 with Kentucky. And then, you know, as he was getting closer to his time to get to Kentucky,
12:46 you know, they also signed some players that maybe he felt was going to impact his opportunity.
12:53 When he put his name back in the transfer portal and Coach Calipari allowed him without any
12:58 repercussion, which, you know, this was before the NCAA really kind of cleared all the transfer
13:04 waiver issues that are going on now. Calipari allowed him to go in with no restrictions.
13:11 And that was that was awesome to see. And Coach Few and Gonzaga was the first staff to reach out
13:16 to him. So, you know, I think it's worked out well for Gonzaga. I think it's worked out well
13:22 for Kentucky. But you also got to know as a competitor and its human nature, you know,
13:26 that was a school that he initially committed to. You know, he's got to want to play well.
13:31 And this is a big game, I'm sure, in his eyes. Yeah, I as soon as you mentioned Hickman,
13:37 I thought about that and I wonder I wish I could be there for this game. I wonder if
13:41 him and Calipari will ever cross paths or talk, you know, before or after the game. But yeah, he
13:47 had a game like, you know, against Washington. It's a different situation. A school that
13:52 recruited him, but it's his hometown, though. Another personal game for him. And I think this
13:56 one is on that same line. He played well against the Huskies. I wonder if he thrives in these
14:03 moments or if he's even considering it. I'm not sure. But he is going to have his hands full
14:08 with Kentucky's backcourt regardless on the defensive end.
14:11 Reeves is averaging almost 20 a game. Sheppard, who starts averaging 12 and, you know, he's shooting,
14:20 I think, 53 or 54 percent from three. So I'm wondering how Gonzaga guards those two perimeter
14:29 guys. I would think I would think Nembhard gets the tougher draw out of those. So and then when
14:38 you come when you think about the backcourt, you know, Kentucky, it's just overwhelming.
14:42 Dillingham is probably one of the toughest shot makers that for a freshman that I'd seen in a
14:48 second, like he's making and taking NBA level jump shots from the perimeter from anywhere. So
14:55 if you're Gonzaga, just make it difficult for him and just you don't want to say hope, but,
15:01 you know, do the little things and see if you can kind of get him out of rhythm coming off the
15:05 screen, make him take shots where, you know, it's not his spot per se. And then when I think about
15:13 the front court. Gonzaga's bigs really need to step up in this game. In particular, you know,
15:21 Trey Mitchell, Kentucky, I'm not sure as we're recording this, I don't think it's come out if
15:25 he's going to play or not. He missed the Vandy game because of a back injury and he didn't really
15:32 look right the previous two games. So he's going to be big averages around 12 and seven a game.
15:38 Senior who just one of the more experienced players on this Kentucky team. And I think if
15:45 he does play that has to be Anton Watson's guard. And that'll be a fun matchup to kind of see you
15:50 go back and forth just because, you know, Watson is he's been the guy on the, in most of these
15:55 true road games for Gonzaga. He had the 32 against Santa Clara. He had the 32 down in Hawaii against
16:02 UCLA. He just seems like the guy who really, you know, embraces these moments against good teams.
16:10 So that would be a fun matchup if it comes down to that. But in particular for Gonzaga, you know,
16:17 a lot of what Kentucky's I think deficiencies and pick and roll and just in general has been,
16:24 you know, teams being able to bring their bigs out to the three point line. Well, you know,
16:28 Kentucky, yeah. A hundred and first or second in camp palm overall defense, but there's seven,
16:35 I think in the country or their top 10 in the country, I should say in blocks per game,
16:38 there it's six per game. So, you know, and a lot of it is on yes. So down low averaging 2.7 a game,
16:48 he's going to be a big matchup for probably Graham EK. But for Ben Gregg and Brayden Huff is who I'm
16:55 thinking about as guys who can try to bring their bigs away from the basket and sort of exploit
17:03 their interior that way. Or like we just talked about pick and rolls. I'm wondering if it's gonna
17:09 be a lot of Ben Gregg, if it's not, you know, sorry, Graham EK, it's probably not going to be
17:16 Watson trying to get Mitchell on. It's probably going to be, you know, Ben Gregg trying to pop
17:20 out for three and maybe Kentucky's either late on a rotation or they make the rotation and the
17:26 ball starts pinging around. So I want to see some of that from Gonzaga, I think is to really try to
17:32 take advantage of their bigs that can shoot. That's a lot of versatility for them in this
17:37 sort of a matchup. And then for Graham EK, you know, against these better competition teams,
17:44 I think he's averaging around 14 per game against, you know, quad one teams, which is good, but
17:50 he's had four more fouls in three of those games. And he's now had two straight games of having four
17:58 fouls he had, you know, St. Mary's was annoying that he had four in the second half. And then he
18:05 had to miss a certain part of, you know, down the stretch when St. Mary's really put it away with
18:09 their scoring run. And then he had, I think, four against Portland, which didn't end up really
18:18 mattering. But I think three of them were on offensive fouls. He was just, I don't know,
18:23 hooking or being too physical. So between him down low and then crashing the glass, he has a lot of
18:32 those just tiki-tacked fouls that happen 90 or so feet away from the hope that he's trying to score
18:38 on. And it's, you know, I get it's frustrating for probably him. It's probably frustrating for
18:43 a few as well, whether they're fouls or not, like that just, that doesn't matter. He's committing
18:47 them and officials are clearly looking at it. So I want for him to try to stay clean this game
18:54 because when he has stayed clean, he's done well. I mean, he had 20 against San Diego State. He had
19:01 a decent game against Purdue trying to guard and play against Zach Eaddy. So he's talked about
19:09 coming to Gonzaga to play in these types of games, against big competition, non-conference,
19:15 us versus them. And this is the time to put up or shut up almost. This is the game that he needs to
19:24 really be a difference maker along with just, you know, Gonzaga's other bigs, just sort of taking
19:32 the load off or not taking the load off, but just providing a different element that Kentucky's bigs
19:38 maybe aren't ready for. Yeah, I think it's a unique test. It's a good test for E.K. And he's
19:45 going to have to deal with a couple of different bigs. I think he's the kind of big that searches
19:51 contact. You can see it. You mentioned a hook call or two that he's received, maybe an offensive
19:56 rebounding opportunity. He craves, you know, the physical banging on the interior where he can feel
20:02 the defender and then create space or spin off of it for an angle. And so, you know, that matchup
20:09 with Onyensu is going to be interesting because, like you said, he averages almost three blocks
20:13 a game. He's seven foot. It doesn't really score it. So that's not where his focus is. It's
20:18 defensively. The other big for Kentucky that's going to be a unique and interesting matchup,
20:23 whether it's on E.K. on the interior or if it's possibly on Ben Gregg, you know, in that pick
20:29 and pop type setting that you mentioned is the Croatian seven foot two freshman of Isic. You
20:36 know, he didn't become eligible until just recently. I think he's played five, maybe six
20:41 games. He's very talented. I mean, you watch some of the highlights. He can stretch you on the three
20:46 point line, put the ball on the deck. He's got good vision. You could just tell he's a really
20:50 good basketball player. It's just a matter of getting up to speed of, you know, college basketball
20:55 at the Division one level, SEC basketball, and then also the level of basketball in Kentucky. So,
21:02 you know, there's that's definitely going to be a unique thing to watch with E.K. against each of
21:08 those two guys. But then Ben Gregg, I think with the Isic, hopefully I'm pronouncing that well,
21:14 correctly as well. I think those are going to be, you know, storylines to keep out. At the end of
21:19 the day, there are lots of great storylines. Few and Calipari's friendship going back to,
21:24 you know, their Memphis days. Gonzaga and Kentucky as two of the premier names in all
21:29 of college basketball. Gonzaga willing to go into Rupp Arena as opposed to a neutral site,
21:35 because like I said, it's two, year two of a six year commitment. There will be an on site
21:40 at McCarthy. There will be a game in Seattle. There will be a game, I believe, in Nashville,
21:46 Tennessee, if I'm not mistaken. And I think that last game, if it's not at Rupp, it might be in
21:51 Louisville. I'm not sure. But this six year deal is a really unique one. You know, then there's
21:56 the storylines of both teams are tremendous offensively. And then, you know, both teams
22:02 are really searching for another quad one win. Gonzaga and actually for their first quad win.
22:08 So this game is important for both. And it's going to be a fun, fun game. You know, it's on big CBS,
22:14 matinee game, Bill Raftery, one of the all time great broadcasters will be on the call. Jay Wright,
22:22 the former Villanova coach will be on the call as well. So it'll be a three man booth. I mean,
22:26 it's going to be a heck of a game. It's going to be a tremendous environment. I'm with you,
22:30 Cole. I wish I could be there. I've been to Rupp one time. I called a game for Westwood
22:34 one radio there years ago. It was Auburn at Kentucky. It's a great environment. But to be
22:40 honest, it's not an imposing environment. You know, like maybe you would expect there's the
22:47 student section is good. It's not the Kennel Club and their, you know, intuitiveness that they have.
22:54 But they do sell it out. I want to say 18,000. So it's a tremendous atmosphere. But it's not as
23:00 raucous as you would imagine. It's more historical. And it's it can be imposing if
23:06 you just look at a sea of 18,000 Kentucky blue and white shirts in the crowd. So
23:12 good stuff today, Cole. Anything to finish with? No, you know, as I've heard Gary Parrish say,
23:20 at CBS, it's the network of stars. And Kentucky's got a lot of stars. But I don't think it's a beast
23:27 that's on that is I think Gonzaga can tame this beast in Kentucky. They can find comfortability
23:34 and knowing that their offense can work with what Kentucky's defense has. It's just not getting
23:40 frustrated when they're Kentucky's just making tough shots. I it's it'll come down to that. And
23:46 you know, Gonzaga Yeah, they've it's another big time opponent for them. This is a unique series.
23:54 They haven't won against the top ranked or top 25 ranked opponent in a true road game since 2019.
24:03 So it's not counting the Alabama one last year. But so just can Gonzaga Gonzaga is really going
24:09 to be challenged like they haven't before this season. And I think that's kind of what you want
24:14 leading up to March regardless of what their, you know, stance in the bracketology is. This is just
24:21 the time to really prove yourself to the rest of the country that yeah, we still belong in this at
24:28 large conversation. If they do if they win, they're still alive. If not, those those couple
24:36 days in Vegas, and that second week of March are really going to be stressful for them. But they've
24:41 been in this situation before. It's just been a while and fans kind of forget that. But yeah,
24:48 that's that's what I'm looking out for. That's the big storyline, of course. But as you mentioned,
24:52 this, this matchup is just chock full of them. Well, I'm gonna leave this one last statistical
24:58 note for it. And then we'll wrap and I'm sure we'll talk about this next week in one of our
25:02 other previews. Gonzaga currently sits in the net. Let me pull it back up. I just switched gears.
25:10 They currently sit in the net at 25. They're on five quad one, three and one quad two. They've
25:16 taken care of business and quad three and four by going 13 and O combined. So they sit at 25 in the
25:22 net. They've got a couple q1 and q2 opportunities left St. Mary's obviously this Kentucky, San
25:28 Francisco looks like it'll be a q2. And then you got the conference tournament title where if you
25:33 win it, you don't have to worry about at large bids. But the highest rated team in the net to
25:40 never make the NCAA tournament was 33. So put that in historical context. Their numbers show you that
25:49 they're in, but it the net is just one of the tools the NCAA selection committee uses. They say
25:56 it's the most leaned upon metric that they use. So that's fine. That's good. And they want to see,
26:02 you know, you beat good teams in the quad one. So their numbers are really good. They're just
26:08 lacking that q1 win that will really solidify themselves as an NCAA tournament bid. You know,
26:16 I think they're in, but they do have to fully convince a lot of other prognosticators out there,
26:25 including, you know, your Joe Lennarty, your Jerry Palms, your Mike D'Coursey,
26:29 all your bracketologists that study this. You know, if they were to ask,
26:36 if I were to ask them a question, I would ask why they are not even in, like Joe Lennarty,
26:41 for example, why are they not even in the first four out or the next four out when he has teams
26:47 that are in the byline that are in the nets in the mid 40s? I mean, it's a legitimate question.
26:55 And I think it comes down to Gonzaga hasn't gotten that quad one win that they crave.
27:02 You know, you thought the USC game was going to be at least a quad two. Same thing with UCLA.
27:08 Granted, UCLA is trending in the right direction. I think they've won five of their last six,
27:14 but, you know, that's a whole nother story. And that's a whole nother conversation that you and
27:21 I can have next week. But I thought I'd leave you with that. Yeah. And as Jerry Palm, I think,
27:26 has once said, if you only have numbers, you don't have much. So I think that would be his
27:30 probably answer to you. And the rest of them. Yeah, it's weird. I'm curious who that 33rd
27:36 ranked team is that missed that tournament. But I think only one team got that large last year
27:42 without a quad one win. And it was Utah State. So there's a path. It's just it's looking bleak. But
27:51 yeah. All right. Well, good stuff. Cool. Always glad to chat. We'll be back together next week.
27:58 I'm sure previewing each of next week's games. It's hard to believe we're almost to the middle
28:04 of March or excuse me, almost to the middle of February. It feels like March with the importance
28:09 of all these games right now. So good stuff. I can't wait to read both your preview article
28:15 as well as your postgame recap. So it's a big one. Thanks again, Cole. Thanks, Dan.