Sussex Non League Football podcast - episode 1 | Eastbourne Borough, Worthing and blue cards
Sussex World's Matt Poel, Mark Dunford and Steve Bone discuss the latest goings on in the world of Sussex Non League Football including how Worthing and Eastbourne Borough are getting on in the National League, who is in the running for Isthmian Premier play-offs and how is the SCFL title race shaping up. We also debate Blue Cards!
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00:00 Welcome to the first ever episode of the Sussex Non-League podcast, where we take a look at all things non-league in Sussex.
00:06 I'm Matt Pohl and I'm joined by Sussex sport duo Mark Dunford and Steve Bohn who will be helping me dissect all the latents going on at our grassroots football clubs.
00:14 Sussex non-league football has been on the rise in recent years, with the likes of Horsham, Worthing and Chichester reaching the first round proper of the FA Cup.
00:21 And most famously, Littlehampton Town became the first club from Sussex to reach the final of the FA Vars in 2022.
00:28 And this season has continued that trend, with a number of our clubs firing it out at the top of their respective divisions.
00:34 In the National League South, Worthing are enjoying a stunning season in just their second ever at Step 2.
00:40 Mark Dunford, how have the Reds been getting on so far this season?
00:44 Oh, they've been absolutely fantastic. They're currently second, but they're 10 points behind leaders Yeovil.
00:50 But they are, I think they're like the Keegan's Newcastle team, great entertainers.
00:55 They've incredibly scored three or more goals on more than 15 occasions this year.
01:00 But at the other end, they've also conceded three or more goals on eight occasions.
01:04 So it's incredible. I mean, last weekend's game against Dover, I think it was, when they won 6-4.
01:10 They've had a 4-4 draw, they've had a couple of 4-2s and that.
01:13 So they're a great team to watch, but Adam Hinshaw Wood has done such a fantastic job there.
01:18 They finished fourth last year, I think, and went out in the playoffs.
01:21 And then, yeah, but this year they're second. They're in, yeah, they're in control of covering that second place.
01:28 Again, a really good playoff draw. And then I'm going to let Steve Bone explain the playoffs
01:33 because I never remember how exactly the playoffs were.
01:36 But they've been absolutely incredible. They've scored more than anyone else.
01:39 But at the other end, they've conceded more than anyone else in the top eight of the division.
01:45 So it's, but I mean, I saw them against Crawley Town in the Senior Cup earlier in the season when they beat them 6-2.
01:52 And Crawley were dreadful that night. They really were quite bad.
01:57 But Worthing really punished them and they scored some great goals and they did play some great football.
02:03 So really, a really good team to watch. Hinshaw Wood deserves so much praise.
02:07 I mean, it'd be interesting if they can keep hold of him because the job he's done with Worthing over the last few seasons,
02:14 they've got to be able to, yeah, there's going to be surely teams looking at him.
02:17 I mean, it was rumoured before that even Crawley were looking at him, but I don't know how true that was.
02:22 But they got, what, 14 games left. They should secure that second place.
02:28 But there's a couple of key fixtures. Fourth of March, they got Chownsford away.
02:32 And then the penultimate game of the season, they're, sorry, yeah, it is Chownsford away.
02:37 Penultimate game of the season, they've got St Albans, which depending on how the results go,
02:43 it could be quite an important game at that point of the season. So, no, really interesting.
02:48 We don't know what's happened to Steve Bone.
02:51 The thought of trying to explain the playoffs has made his mind break.
02:55 Yes, absolutely. Shall we carry on?
02:59 Well, as I say, you mentioned the fact that they're the great entertainers,
03:02 netting, I think, 72 times in the 32 league games. 29 of those goals, Mark, have been scored by Reds marksman Olly Pearce,
03:10 which is a simply ridiculous number, isn't it? Is there a case, is there a better striker in non-league at the moment than Olly Pearce?
03:17 Probably not. I mean, Crawley, I mean, I cover Crawley. I've mentioned Crawley a couple of times.
03:22 But they could use someone like him as certainly to back up Danilo Orsi.
03:27 But Steve Bone's completely gone now. But no, I don't think there is.
03:31 I mean, you look at the stats. Certainly at his level, he's by far and away the best one in the National League,
03:37 North and South. He's got eight more than the next top scorer, Paul Blackett of South Shields in the North.
03:42 And then he's got 13 more than Sean Jeffers of St Albans City in the National League South.
03:49 So he is a fantastic player. I mean, I remember speaking to him about him after that Crawley game
03:54 because he scored a couple coming on as a sub that game. And he's just full of praise for him.
03:59 I mean, how he hasn't played at a higher level already. He's scored goals over the years, isn't he?
04:04 It isn't just this season, but this season seems to have been like peak Oli Pearson.
04:09 He's got great feet. He's a great finisher. And yeah, like I say, if they can keep hold of him and Hinshelwood,
04:17 if they get promoted this year, it'll be interesting to see how he gets on in that higher level again.
04:23 You're the man in the know about Crawley Town, obviously Mark Dunford.
04:26 And they've this season especially have searched non-league and come up with quite a few success stories.
04:34 Is this an example that for players, if you do drop into non-league, that it's not necessarily seen as a graveyard of your career
04:40 and there is that stepping stone to Football League if you do impress?
04:43 Absolutely. And if there are more teams, if people see what Scott Lindsay did in the summer
04:50 and the recruitment team and scoured those non-league to find those gems, then yeah, no, absolutely.
04:55 I think if you can, yeah, if you have to drop down to try and make your name, then it's a good thing
05:00 because you will get spotted because budgets are so tight in League Two that it's not often.
05:07 I mean, yeah, you've got the likes of Wrexham, Stockport, Notts County, who are spending thousands and thousands or whatever.
05:13 But if you've got a tight budget from whoever's going to be 10th downwards in League Two, you're going to have to go to.
05:20 If you look at some of the teams in the National League, like Chesterfield, Ridiculous, some massive clubs,
05:27 there are going to be some gems there that people are going to find.
05:30 And Scott Lindsay and the recruitment team probably did it in the summer with the likes of Clydie Lollos.
05:36 I'm remembering more names as they go.
05:38 Joy McKenna.
05:39 Joy McKenna, Jay Williams.
05:41 Lloyd Kenneth.
05:42 Yeah, absolutely. There's so many out there.
05:46 Yeah, it's absolutely a great, great place to make your name.
05:52 Steve Bowen, good to have you back.
05:54 Yes, you were boring me, so I went.
05:58 We thought it was asking you how to explain the National League playoff system that caused you to have a mouth.
06:04 Yeah, I was going to do that next week.
06:09 Before we move on to the other Sussex side of the National League South table, Steve,
06:13 how impressed have you been by Worthing and friend of Goldmouth Action podcast Adam Hingerwood?
06:19 Yes, very impressed. I mean, last year in their first season at National South, they did well, didn't they?
06:24 Reached the playoffs, which not too many clubs do in their first season and step two.
06:29 And this season they've gone on again, really.
06:31 They're looking good for a second place finish, could be straight into a home semifinal, home playoff semifinal.
06:38 They've had off days, you know, they've been a little bit inconsistent.
06:43 As you've said earlier, they've let too many goals in. Adam Hingerwood has to admit that.
06:47 They've been a bit weak at the back on certain days.
06:49 He said it's almost like if they concede one goal, you just know they're going to concede three or four in that game.
06:54 Luckily, some weeks they score six and it doesn't matter.
06:57 But that's what they've got to work on over the last 15 games or so.
07:02 But, yeah, you've got to be impressed at how the team and the club as a whole have adapted to life at the higher level.
07:09 Well, at the other end of the National League South table, Eastbourne Borough are enduring a difficult season.
07:14 It's very much been a season of upheaval and change for sports who were taken over by new owners to start the campaign and brought in a host of new players.
07:23 Can you tell us a little bit about Borough's season so far, Steve?
07:26 From what I've gathered, it's been anything but quiet.
07:29 It's certainly not been quiet. It's not been dull.
07:33 They actually started OK. They won their first game and everybody thought, oh, this is going to be good.
07:37 This is going to be a real exciting season.
07:40 But they lost their way quite quickly and they were soon bottom half of the table and more recently gone into the relegation zone.
07:49 Things seem to have taken a bit of a turn for the better now.
07:53 They've got a new manager, Adam Murray, ex-filed manager in as the new manager there.
08:01 One or two signs that he hasn't got too many wins yet. He's had one win, a couple of draws and a couple of defeats.
08:07 But signs that things are turning, but they do need to turn pretty quickly.
08:13 I think what Eastbourne Borough did was they probably did change too much too soon.
08:18 I think everything was new. It was a new owner, within days, new manager, whole new squad.
08:24 I think there was two players left from last season's squad, who by the way did quite well in National South, left when the new season kicked off.
08:31 Probably a little bit too much on the inexperienced side.
08:35 They had some good young prospects they brought in, but the balance between experience and youth was probably not quite right.
08:42 It took them half a season to work out that under Mark Beard it just wasn't going to work.
08:48 He had some bad luck with injuries and so on, but it paid the price.
08:53 Do you think they waited too long to make a change?
08:58 Not that it would be harsh on Mark Beard because he's obviously got a lot of temper and a lot of talent.
09:03 I suppose we'll be able to judge that at the end of the season.
09:06 If they do fail to get out of the bottom four, it's because they haven't left themselves enough time to do that.
09:12 But having said that, there is still time. They've got 15 games left. They probably need to win seven or eight of them.
09:18 Kevin Anderson, our man at Eastbourne Borough, has done a nice piece on Sussex World today, explaining how they can get out of that bottom four.
09:26 They've got a lot of the teams around them to play.
09:29 There's a couple of other teams in the bottom four who you think probably won't get out of it because of the dire straits they're in.
09:35 We've got the first column in the paper tomorrow, in the Herald tomorrow, from Simon Leslie.
09:41 He says it's been a baptism of fire and it has for him.
09:46 I wouldn't say he's bitten off more than he can chew, but it's been probably harder than he expected it to be.
09:54 The next few weeks and couple of months are going to be very tense down there.
09:58 The parallels with Crawley Town last season were incredible.
10:02 If you didn't mention any of the names or the club, you could have been talking exactly about Crawley Town, including Mike Wetcham.
10:10 Did they wait too long to make a change, as Crawley did last year?
10:14 So, yeah, fascinating.
10:18 But hopefully there's the same ending for Eastbourne Borough as Crawley, because they stayed up by the skin of their teeth, didn't they, Mark?
10:24 Indeed, yeah, absolutely. It was an exciting end.
10:27 Yeah, fingers crossed. Unnecessarily exciting, some might say.
10:32 We're going back to Borough. This Tuesday sees Eastbourne Borough host Havant, who at the time of recording, sit three points behind the third from Fulham Sports in the table.
10:42 I know it's only February, Steve, but is this one of those fabled relegation six-pointers?
10:47 I think it is, actually. Yeah, I don't think it's too early to say that. Havant have had a very poor season.
10:54 They've in the past been one of the stronger teams in National South, lost their way a bit last season.
11:00 Steve King was there for the first part of this season and it just didn't work out for him.
11:04 He brought in a lot of new players, had such a turnover of players there.
11:07 So, they are one of the couple of clubs below Eastbourne Borough.
11:11 And, yeah, if you're looking at games that Eastbourne Borough have to win, you know, because of the number they have to win, you have to win half of their games from now on.
11:18 You've got to look at that as one.
11:21 In fact, they've got eight home games left. You're probably wanting them to win five or six of those eight, really.
11:27 And Havant would certainly be one of the ones they're looking at.
11:31 Before that, Saturday, they've got Chelmsford at Priory Lane as well. So, that's another one.
11:35 That would be a much harder game, you would think. Chelmsford not having a bad season.
11:39 But, yeah, these home wins need to start coming pretty quickly.
11:42 It's probably a little bit unfair to put you both on the spot, chaps, but will Borough do it? Will they stay up?
11:47 Yes, yes. Be positive. Yeah, I think they will.
11:51 I'm going to go by what Kevin Anderson has said, because I believe every word he writes for us.
11:56 I think he's predicting they're going to do it. So, I'm going with it as well.
12:01 Thanks, Paul. Fingers crossed to them.
12:03 Meanwhile, in the Eastbourne Premier, four of our clubs are involved in a hotly contested race to the play-offs.
12:08 Steve Bone, who are Sussex runners and riders in the play-off battle?
12:11 How many Sussex representatives do you see being involved in the play-off semi-finals come the end of the season?
12:18 It's a funny one. It's been Premier for Sussex and this season is shaping up to be similar to last season in that Horsham, Hastings, Bognor, Lewis,
12:29 they're all in the same bracket. They're all potential candidates for the play-offs,
12:34 but they're all possibly just a little way off where they need to be to get in those places.
12:40 As we speak now, any of those four could be in the play-offs. They might all get to the play-offs.
12:44 That would be good, wouldn't it, if we had all four Sussex teams in the play-offs semi-finals?
12:47 I don't think it'll happen, though. Hastings are best placed at the moment.
12:51 They are actually in their fifth place at the moment, but they got up to fourth.
12:55 And since they got there, they've had a couple of setbacks. They lost at home to Horsham, then at home to Lewis.
13:02 So, they've sort of lost their winning form at the wrong time.
13:06 Horsham, and you can probably tell us a bit more about Horsham because you speak to Dom De Pauw every week,
13:11 they possibly have got the best chance of all four because they're not losing many games.
13:17 They've picked up points and they've still got a couple of games in hand.
13:20 Bognor have had a very good 2024 so far. They were lower mid-table for most of the first half of the season,
13:27 had a run of six straight wins from the first Saturday in January.
13:32 That's got them right up there and they're only about four or five points off.
13:35 Same with Lewis. Lewis have been higher in the table earlier in the season.
13:38 They've slipped a little bit. They've been very inconsistent since the turn of the year.
13:43 But that win at Hastings last weekend will get them believing again.
13:47 They're not so far behind, they can't still make up the ground.
13:50 So, yeah, if I was a betting person, I would say Horsham, the most likely of the four.
13:58 But twists and turns to come.
14:00 How would you assess Horsham's chances, Matt, because you speak to Don every week?
14:05 I've always said to both of you that they went on this wonderful cut run.
14:09 If anyone doesn't know, they ended up getting to the second round of the FA Cup,
14:13 ended up drawing three-all at Barnsley, then losing three-nil at home to the replay.
14:18 And then it will get very complicated because Barnsley's paperwork was wrong.
14:21 Anyway, they ended up getting to the second round where they ended up losing to Sutton.
14:25 The only negative I would say about Horsham's potential run to playoff, Steve,
14:29 is that they've got far too many games.
14:31 They've got four games in hand on Hastings, which sounds good, and they're only two points off.
14:36 If any more games are getting called off between now and the end of the season,
14:40 they are potentially looking at playing maybe Saturday, Tuesday, Thursday.
14:45 Now, they might have a fairly big squad, but fitness comes into play.
14:49 You've got lads who are working five days a week.
14:52 And when you're playing three times a week, it becomes a bit of an insurmountable object.
14:56 But it's not to take away from the brilliant season they've had.
14:59 I, at the start of the season, tipped Lewis, I must admit, to do quite well this season.
15:04 I've been not underwhelmed by them, but quite surprised about how flat it's kind of gone.
15:09 I don't know if you agree.
15:11 Yeah, I mean, they've been unfortunate. They've lost some good players.
15:14 They lost Joe Taylor to Ramsgate pre-season.
15:17 He got 30 goals from last season, and you can't replace 30 goals in one player
15:21 straight away.
15:22 They've also lost a couple of players who have gone on to football league clubs as well.
15:28 They have replaced them, but that turnover of players during a season is not easy for any club.
15:34 So, like I say, they've done well to hang on to the chance of a run, but they need to find –
15:40 them and Bogner, you would put in the same bracket.
15:43 If they can have a good run, if they can win and draw games rather than win one week
15:48 and lose one week, then they've got a chance.
15:51 Yeah, I mean, it's great for Sussex football though, isn't it, to have that many teams
15:55 having hope at this time of the season kind of thing.
15:58 Because we've had so many seasons in the past where it's just maybe we've had one team do well
16:03 and that, and there's a bit of interest at this time of the season.
16:06 But, yeah, to have four teams could be pushing.
16:09 And then potentially next year, three teams in – three Sussex teams in National League South,
16:14 or two with one in the National League.
16:17 Could even have one in National Premier, yeah.
16:19 Yeah, it'd be amazing, wouldn't it? It'd be incredible.
16:22 Well, more good news as well, kind of echoing what Mark has said.
16:27 Off the pitch, four of the top six highest average Ispian Premier attendances
16:32 belong to Sussex clubs.
16:33 Hastings boast the third highest attendance with an average of 1,235.
16:38 The U's are followed by Horsham in fourth with 930.
16:41 Lewis in fifth with 834.
16:44 And Bulgarna just behind in sixth with 824.
16:47 Chaps, what do you put this surge in attendance down to?
16:51 And how pleasing it is to see this level of support for our non-league clubs?
16:55 I'll let you go first, Steve.
16:58 I think the COVID and all the lockdowns marked a bit of a change in people's habits
17:06 of watching their local team.
17:08 I think there was a period where people couldn't go out, couldn't do anything.
17:11 There was no football to watch on the TV, there wasn't much on TV.
17:14 There wasn't any football to go out to.
17:16 When people could then go back to games, everybody who was going before went back
17:22 and I think they took a few others along with them as well.
17:25 It's not as simple as that.
17:26 Obviously, there's other factors coming into play as well.
17:28 But I've seen it grow quite well since then.
17:34 Numbers are going up, even for teams that aren't doing particularly well.
17:37 Bogner have been getting good crowds even when they've been in the bottom half
17:41 of the table.
17:42 I think probably Lewis would say the same.
17:44 You're now seeing four-figure crowds regularly at Eastbourne, Borough of Worthing,
17:49 Horsham, Hastings.
17:51 Hastings are getting more than 2,000 for games, which is incredible really.
17:54 There was a Saturday a couple of weeks ago where Hastings had 500 more
17:57 than Forest Green, who were playing in League Two, which is remarkable really,
18:02 isn't it?
18:03 It's great.
18:04 I think all the clubs have worked hard since all the lockdowns and everything
18:09 to come up with initiatives to get people in.
18:12 They've kept the ticket prices reasonable.
18:14 They've gone out to the community.
18:16 They've made links and they've said, "Look, come along.
18:18 Support your local team.
18:20 Come to a game, see if you like it," and it's paid off big time for them.
18:25 I think the matchday experience is quite a big thing.
18:28 That's something I know Crawley worked on really hard.
18:31 The owners made a lot of bad decisions, but they certainly tried to improve
18:36 the matchday experience.
18:37 They lowered the season ticket prices and that because it's not like these crowds
18:41 at non-league games because nobody wants to watch Crawley anymore.
18:44 They've gone to watch their local sides and that because Crawley's
18:47 attendances are up as well.
18:48 So, it's not just in the non-league, it's in League Two.
18:52 I think, yes, it's just the matchday experience.
18:55 I think I do agree with what Steve said about COVID.
18:57 I think that made everyone take stock of what going to football is,
19:01 kind of thing.
19:02 It's quite a big deal when it's not there.
19:04 You sort of took it for granted, kind of thing.
19:06 So, yes, no, it's really good to see, though.
19:09 So, the teams are doing well.
19:10 The supporters are doing well.
19:12 Let's say the journalists are doing well as well.
19:15 We've improved as well.
19:17 Well, we're on a podcast with award-winning journalist Mark Dunford,
19:20 Steve.
19:21 So, yes.
19:22 I know.
19:23 Sir, to you.
19:24 Steve couldn't quite believe it.
19:26 Double award winning.
19:27 Going back to that point, do you think people have also been priced out
19:34 of the Premier League, which is why you've seen higher attendances
19:37 at non-league?
19:39 I don't know.
19:40 I mean, the Premier League prices are ridiculous, but Premier League
19:44 crowds are still, they've kind of held up, haven't they?
19:48 There are people who want to see Premier League games.
19:52 If you looked at Brighton's crowds, they've held up quite well.
19:55 Maybe there are more non-local fans going to their games, whereas some
20:02 of the people that live in the Brighton catchment area are now going
20:05 to other football.
20:06 I don't know.
20:07 It's very difficult to measure, isn't it?
20:09 Yeah.
20:10 I do think there has been a general shift over quite a long time where
20:16 people have gone off top-level football a little bit because of some
20:19 of the issues it has with it, but still want their football fix and
20:23 therefore have gone lower down the ladder and gone to their local team,
20:27 which all those clubs will welcome.
20:30 I agree.
20:31 Absolutely.
20:32 And kind of related to the Premier League, Blue Cards are set to be
20:36 interested in football for Simbins, which I think has been trialled
20:40 in the South East County League for quite a while, Steve.
20:42 Is that right?
20:43 Yes.
20:44 I think it's sort of Step 6 and 7, I think I'm saying.
20:48 Somebody will correct me.
20:49 I don't think it's happened at Step 5, but Step 6 and 7,
20:52 you haven't had Blue Cards, but you've had Simbins,
20:55 essentially for dissent.
20:57 A player can be sent to a Simbin for 10 minutes.
21:01 I must say I haven't heard any strong opinions either way about whether
21:05 it's been a great success or a terrible failure.
21:08 I think the clubs at that level have taken it on board quite well
21:12 and they've run with it and it's worked.
21:15 You don't hear too many controversies at that level about it affecting
21:21 the outcome of the game.
21:24 But do we want it at the top level?
21:26 I say no.
21:29 I say it's needless.
21:31 Very quickly for the uninitiated, the Blue Cards are set to be introduced
21:35 into football for Simbins under IFA, oh Christ, some new trials.
21:42 That's interesting.
21:44 Something like that.
21:45 Players will enter the bin for 10 minutes over dissent or cynical fouls,
21:48 as Steve said, and the new plans could be trialled in next season's FA Cup.
21:52 Steve, you kind of touched upon it there.
21:54 What do you make of all this?
21:56 Well, we had a column, our Albion columnist Ian Hart sent a column in
22:01 earlier in the week and I don't like to agree with him too much.
22:05 It's a dangerous thing to do.
22:07 I had to agree with this week because he said it's harebrained
22:11 and it's totally unnecessary and I've got to agree with him.
22:14 We've already got a system where a referee can show a yellow card to a
22:18 player, whether it's for a foul or for dissent or whatever.
22:21 If the player does something as bad again, he'll show him a red card
22:25 and it will send him off.
22:27 Why do we need another tier of that?
22:29 Why do we need another colour of card?
22:31 It's just a bit of a gimmick.
22:35 The authorities trying to look as though they're trying to tackle a problem
22:39 which I don't think needs tackling in that way.
22:41 I think maybe we just need more consistency from referees in applying
22:46 the laws and clamping down on dissent, if that's what they want to do.
22:51 You do see discrepancies, but I just think it's another complication to
22:57 games which on top of VAR in the Premier League, it's just going to
23:01 make them unwatchable.
23:03 Part of me, in a perverse way, can't wait to see what a shambles is.
23:09 I think me and Steve were discussing off the call earlier about
23:15 Andrew Postogoglu spoke really well on it the other day.
23:19 The main thing is that every other sport is trying to declutter,
23:24 but the football authorities seem to want to clutter out more.
23:28 What happens if I'm trying to think of a really absurd scenario,
23:35 but somebody plays a free ball, just after they've played the free ball
23:41 they get fouled, it's a contentious offside, the player scores,
23:46 then the player who got fouled then moans and shows dissent at the referee.
23:52 The linesman is not sure it's offside, so they've gone to VAR.
23:56 All the defenders are moaning at the referee because it probably was offside.
24:02 How do you unpick that from the moment the ball goes in the net?
24:05 What do you check for?
24:07 Is there going to be VAR on the blue card?
24:12 It's a minefield, isn't it?
24:15 It is an absolute minefield.
24:18 I get the idea, but it's just not going to work.
24:21 I think a good question to answer, I can't remember who raised it,
24:24 but what happens if a goalkeeper is booked for time-wasting or something like that?
24:28 Do you then not have a goalkeeper for ten minutes?
24:30 Are you allowed to replace the keeper?
24:32 I saw a task on this because somebody questioned it and said,
24:38 "Have you thought about this?"
24:39 They've come back and they said, "Well, if a goalkeeper gets sim-binned,
24:43 you've got two choices.
24:44 You either put an outfield player in goal for that ten minutes
24:48 or you substitute an outfield player for the sub-goalkeeper and put him in.
24:52 But when the ten minutes is up, you obviously can't have two goalkeepers.
24:56 So what do you do?
24:57 Do you put that sub-goalkeeper in the outfield or do you then sub him
25:03 with another sub because you can't sub on that previous sub,
25:06 the one you've taken off for that goalkeeper?
25:08 I mean, it's absolutely bonkers.
25:11 I kind of really want to see it happen.
25:14 They genuinely don't seem to have thought it through fully enough
25:17 before getting to the stage where they've announced it, do they?
25:20 Yeah, no, they needed to come out and have FAQs ready.
25:24 What happens in every possible scenario?
25:26 Every scenario.
25:27 I was just going to say very quickly because I know in the Hastings Observer,
25:34 tomorrow's paper, we've got Chris Hagerty talking about the standard of refereeing
25:38 and there was Jack Dixon who was sent off.
25:40 Not in a good way.
25:41 Not in a good way, yeah, absolutely.
25:44 It was Jack Dixon who was sent off for two lookable offences.
25:48 Double descent, they call it.
25:49 Yeah, two yellow cards for descent within about 10, 15 seconds of each other.
25:54 So, that's where it probably does work to some extent, the idea of the blue card,
25:59 because once he's done one, he's off and the team only suffers for 10 minutes,
26:04 not for the 45 minutes of the second half kind of thing,
26:07 unless he comes back on and then does it again.
26:10 But, yeah, is there going to be a maximum throughout a game?
26:15 Can a player get away?
26:16 Can they get up to nine Simbins?
26:19 Yeah, do you start getting, do you get sent off if you've accumulated so many in a game?
26:26 I just assume it's the same as two yellows, surely.
26:30 But, again, you don't know, do we?
26:32 It's not clear.
26:33 Yeah, exactly.
26:34 Yeah, but yeah, I think that's where it could work, but yeah, no.
26:38 We will start talking about non-league football in a minute,
26:41 but Mark and Steve, twofold.
26:45 First, the question I'm going to ask you,
26:47 do you think there is an issue with dissent in football at all levels?
26:50 And secondly, if the answer to that is yes, how would you try and clear that problem up?
26:56 Oh, blimey, that's a big question.
26:58 I think that, yeah, I think there is.
27:01 I don't know.
27:02 I think there's probably always, there's always been dissent in football.
27:06 Well, not maybe not always, but there has been for a long time.
27:10 I think the system we've got for yellow and red cards is the one to work from,
27:15 but it just needs to be, it needs to be applied across the board at all levels of football in the same way.
27:22 Maybe referees need more training in what constitutes dissent, what is acceptable, chat to them and what's not.
27:31 I do think different referees seem to interpret in different ways.
27:35 And maybe we need a season of being quite hard on it.
27:38 So we need more yellow cards for it and more red cards then.
27:41 I mean, we are starting to see a little bit of that, aren't we?
27:43 We are seeing more players shown a second yellow for it.
27:47 So maybe we need to extend that a little bit.
27:50 You know, as with any problem in football, you need to punish it until it starts to affect a team's results.
27:58 Then you'll soon see a difference.
28:01 It's a tricky one. It's quite a subjective thing, isn't it?
28:04 It is, yeah. Obviously, I umpire in the Sussex Cricket League.
28:08 And every year at the beginning of the season, we have an umpires meeting.
28:11 All the panel umpires for the Premier Division, Division One, blah, blah, blah.
28:17 And we normally do an exercise where we'll get shown videos of players showing what looks like dissent.
28:25 But the question is, is it dissent or is it frustration?
28:29 Frustration or disappointment.
28:32 And you've got to decide that.
28:35 When you're on the pitch, you've got to decide it in a second.
28:38 I know that's not the easiest thing, officiating any sport.
28:42 But if you sort of, yeah, it's deciding what the parameters are of that dissent, isn't it?
28:49 And making sure everybody is clear.
28:52 And the referee chatting to both teams before the game.
28:55 Sometimes, I mean, I know they speak to the captains, but the captains never pass on what the referee says at the toss of a cricket match or whatever.
29:03 But maybe, yeah, the referee needs to sit down and speak, just have a little chat, go into each dressing room.
29:09 Two minutes, that's all it takes. Right, don't answer back.
29:12 If you've got a problem, go for your captain, talk to me.
29:15 I mean, I know that doesn't solve the whole issue, but it's just...
29:20 It's quite a try, isn't it?
29:22 Yeah, just try. I mean, look at rugby.
29:25 I mean, they call the referee 'sir'.
29:28 I mean, can you imagine that in football?
29:30 Well, rugby, the captains are the only people who are allowed to speak to the referee, which I know is quite a thing that's come up quite often.
29:37 But I do think it's something that we need to bring in from rugby.
29:40 I know that it's very stop-start and doesn't play the same.
29:43 But if you want to manage dissent, I think the referee should only speak to one player.
29:47 Yeah, and then get your team together.
29:50 I mean, sorry to go on, but I had an occasion last year where I was doing a game and it got ridiculous.
29:57 Just one player was just being an absolute idiot on the cricket pitch.
30:02 And in the end, me and the other umpire got the captain and just said, 'Right, get all your team together.'
30:07 I said, 'It's him causing the problems, but just get your team together.
30:11 Tell them we will not accept anything else, dissent, any kind of verbal abuse at any other player.'
30:16 And then it just... And it did put an end to it.
30:18 So if it means stopping the game for two or three minutes to make sure the rest of the game flows, then I think that's a good thing.
30:26 Rather than stopping it, yeah.
30:28 What we must do one week is get a Sussex referee on here, because it would be interesting to have their view, wouldn't it,
30:36 on what it's like to be receiving end of dissent and how they think it should be dealt with.
30:41 Absolutely.
30:42 We'd like to think that the FA will consult the referees on this, but maybe they won't.
30:45 Maybe they won't think.
30:46 That would be an interesting one, actually.
30:48 We'll do that one week.
30:50 Yeah.
30:51 Very, very final last question on this topic.
30:54 You said, Mark, you were shown the difference between, was it dissent, frustration and disappointment?
30:59 Well, it was dissent and disappointment, I think, were the two main things.
31:02 Frustration might have been not in there.
31:04 How are you told to differentiate between the two then?
31:08 I think it is just... You've still got to make that decision quite quickly on the pitch.
31:14 And I think it's a case of if their actions or words are aimed at anyone in particular, whether it be the bowler, a fielder or the umpire themselves,
31:25 how long it goes on for comes into it.
31:29 Because if they give an LBW and they stand there for another minute and just stand there before they walk off, that goes from disappointment to dissent.
31:42 Yeah.
31:43 And I think it is a case of just seeing the body language as well as a big part of it.
31:48 Just, yeah, if they're aiming at anything, it's not one thing you can put your finger on, but it's just watching them.
31:54 Even when they're walking off the pitch, if they get to the sort of boundary line and then suddenly they do something, they can still be dissent at that point.
32:01 So if you hear a bat fly into the pavilion or whatever, things like that, or someone tells you you haven't done a runner correctly on the outfield.
32:10 We won't go into that.
32:13 Has that happened to you before by any chance, Mark?
32:15 Yeah, yeah. No, I wouldn't like to say that.
32:18 I will cap that by saying that I'm very glad that I'm neither a referee nor an umpire.
32:22 But anyway, back to the football chat. Eight Sussex clubs are battling it out in the Eastminne South East.
32:28 Steve Bone, how are our sides getting on in this division, both ends of the table?
32:32 Do we have anyone gunning for glory or fighting off the spectre of relegation?
32:36 I'm going to come back in, but I have got a dog barking on the other side of the room.
32:40 I'm going to show him a blue card because he's not going to do it. Bear with me if you can hear him more than me.
32:46 Yeah, Eastminne South East division, like the Eastminne Premier, for the Sussex team it's so hard to predict week to week who's going to do what.
32:53 It's a bit of a crazy division.
32:55 What you've got in the Eastminne South East is you've got two teams not from Sussex who are sort of running away with it, Ramsgate and Cray Valley.
33:03 Everybody else is capable of beating everybody else really.
33:07 And we're seeing some very unpredictable results.
33:10 The surprise team of the season for us has been Lansing.
33:13 I think most people probably would have thought they didn't.
33:15 They stayed up a little bit to spare last year.
33:18 They didn't run far above the relegation zone.
33:21 They were a little bit ahead of Burgess Hill and Hayward Heath. Hayward Heath, of course, did go down in the playoffs.
33:26 But Lansing this year have been as high as third in the table.
33:30 I think they're fourth at the moment and a really good run, beaten some good teams at home in particular.
33:36 Dave Eltendorf is the manager there now.
33:39 Brought in some of the players from a couple of his previous clubs, brought through some Lansing youngsters and doing really well.
33:45 And look as though they could get a spot in the playoffs, which you'd never have thought possible.
33:50 They only came up from the FA a couple of years ago, you know, 2021 I think it was.
33:55 So they're doing well. Next two for us are Chichester and Three Bridges.
34:01 Chichester City, another team, not got a big budget at all, not got anything like the budget that the top couple of clubs have got there.
34:07 Just moved back to Oakland's park after half a season at Bognor because they've had a new 3G pitch laid.
34:15 A bit inconsistent, but had a great result last weekend.
34:18 They drew 0-0 away to Cray Valley and were the first team to stop them scoring in a league game this season.
34:25 Three Bridges are there or thereabouts, but they started really well.
34:29 They were top, they were clear at the top and they've sort of faded as the season's gone on.
34:33 And then you go down to mid-table, you've got teams like Broadbridge Heath, Burgess Hill, Little Hampton, East Grinstead.
34:41 You know, they're all having mixed seasons.
34:45 I think that's the way you put it. They're having good spells and bad spells.
34:48 Not looking like they're good enough to make a bid for the playoffs, but equally you hope not so bad that they're going to go down.
34:56 So, yeah, lots of interest and very unpredictable.
35:00 I remember Mike saying, Steve, at the start of this call, before we hopped on it, you had a good Three Bridges stat for us.
35:07 I did, yes. They've played 24 games. I'm going to set you a little question here, you two.
35:12 They've played 24 games so far this season. How many goals have been scored for and against in those 24 games, do you think?
35:22 Four and against? So in total, how many goals in the games involving Three Bridges?
35:27 Yeah, in 24 games.
35:31 24, let's say, times four. I can't even do that math quickly. 92.
35:39 92. Something about 90 odd.
35:43 OK, Matt, any advance on that?
35:46 I'm going to go the other end of the scale. I'm going to go 24. They've scored and conceded a goal every game.
35:53 You've gone hopelessly wrong, I'm afraid. Mike's quite close. 107.
35:58 Wow.
35:59 107 goals. They've scored 58, which isn't bad. They had a couple of 6-0 wins earlier in the season.
36:07 But they've let in 49.
36:10 Blimey.
36:11 And Littlehampton Town, who are not quite up there, but they've had something like 87 goals in their 24 games.
36:21 Last week, Littlehampton beat Bogner 6-1 and then drew 4-4 with Hythe. So you want to see goals go to Littlehampton.
36:28 I might be jumping ahead here to something we're going to talk about in a minute, but on Saturday, Littlehampton v Three Bridges.
36:36 So it's going to be nil-nil now.
36:40 It's worth seeing on Sussexworld.co.uk Mitch Hand's comments about football and all this fancy passing football between the central defenders working up the pitch.
36:52 He loves old school football and he's got some quite good comments.
36:55 He left his floor on draw on Saturday.
36:58 He did, yeah.
37:00 And finally, how is the promotion and relegation battle shaping up in the SCFL Premier, Steve, who have been this season's standout performers so far?
37:09 You'd have to say New Haven are the team of the season down there so far.
37:14 They've been top for most of the season.
37:16 They've been close to winning that division and getting up to the Ispian South East before.
37:22 They look as though they might do it this year.
37:24 They're top at the moment, but actually they've been joined level on points now by Hassocks, who really like lancing in the next division up.
37:33 Real sort of surprise package.
37:35 Hassocks have no budget.
37:37 They do not pay players anything, which is true of some clubs in that division, but not all of them.
37:42 They've had a run of seven straight wins and they are now level on points with New Haven, having played a game more.
37:49 Stenning have also won seven in a row and they are two points behind.
37:53 So, at the moment, you'd say those three, I think Mark Dunford might have another sort of dark horse for the title race there.
38:01 But what you're going for in that division, as far as I know, unless it's changed, is that the winners will go up probably to the Ispian South East
38:09 and whoever comes second will play in a step four or five playoff with the chance of grabbing another place.
38:19 So you'd look at those few teams and say it's between them, but it's very competitive and a lot of games to go, so it can still change.
38:26 Well, we'll wait and see how that finishes.
38:28 Thank you very much for joining us this week, chaps.
38:30 In the other podcast that we do with The Other Lot, we do a score prediction.
38:34 But this week, as it's a non-league podcast, we're going to go for our Sussex non-league game of the week,
38:40 where we highlight our pick of our games to keep an eye out for across our Sussex side.
38:45 Starting with you, Steve Bone, who have you gone for this week?
38:48 Well, I'm going to go for the one I've just mentioned, Littlehampton v Three Bridges, because I think it's probably going to be 8-5 to Littlehampton.
38:54 If I was going to that, and I'm not, by the way, but if I was going to that, I would also then on Tuesday night go to Eastbourne against Haven at Waterloo Ville.
39:03 Should be a cracking game, should be a real intensity to that and I think it would be a good one under the Priory Lane lights, if I can say.
39:13 Mark Dunford, what have you gone for?
39:15 I'm going down to the Southern Combination Football League. Hassox and my dark horse is Kroger Athletic.
39:22 They play at the Beacon on Saturday. Hassox are, like Steve said, a joint top, 62 points, but New Haven got the game in hand.
39:29 But Kroger are in fourth place with 57 points, but they've got two games in hand over Hassox.
39:35 So, it's quite a big game for Kroger to get really back involved. If Hassox win, then it sort of knocks Kroger down a little bit.
39:41 But if Kroger win, it's quite a big one. So, it's quite a big one in the title race.
39:45 It could be, yeah, Kroger could become kingmakers in that division. So, yeah, that's my pick.
39:52 I'm going to be quite boring and I know that Mark will roll his eyes. I'm going to go for Horsham away at Villa Riqui.
40:01 Third of the eighth in the national infantry, quite a big game for both sides to play off aspirations and a win for Horsham there could really help them out.
40:09 So, yeah, it won't be Horsham every week. I'd just like to clarify.
40:13 Horsham YMCA next week.
40:17 Yeah. Thank you very much for joining us, chaps. I'm not quite sure when we'll be doing this next, but it's been, I've quite enjoyed this.
40:23 It's been good. Yeah. Thank you very much for listening. I suppose we'll see you when we see you.
40:29 Cheers.
40:30 Cheerio.