Former Gonzaga All-American Dan Dickau and Gonzaga Nation reporter Cole Forsman break down Anton Watson's career ahead of senior night against Santa Clara
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00:00 Gonzaga Nation, Dan Dicko here alongside our esteemed journalist Cole Forsman who keeps
00:06 bringing a lot of great content to the website. Don't forget to check that out
00:12 as well as the different shows and podcasts that we have on our platform. But
00:16 it's a big week for Gonzaga simply for the fact that they have one last home game this season,
00:24 a big time opportunity to honor their senior, a guy who's been around the program for a,
00:29 what seems like a long time, that being Anton Watson. Came in as a highly regarded player,
00:36 battled some injuries early, proved his worth and has become one of the most dependable
00:43 and versatile players in recent Gonzaga history. It's going to be fun to hear Cole's take
00:50 on what he's meant to this program over the last five years. I've got some thoughts on just what
00:57 he's provided to the program as well, but enough for my introduction. Let's hear Cole Forsman and
01:04 hear what is important in the eyes, through his eyes, in regards to Gonzaga basketball and
01:10 senior night against Santa Clara. Yeah, Dan, thanks for the very long intro. Once again,
01:16 I love when you throw a steamed in the front of journalists. That makes me feel really awesome.
01:21 It does. Yeah. I mean, in college basketball in general, we're less a month from pretty much now,
01:29 give or take a few days, we're going to be having first round NCAA tournament games.
01:34 That is crazy to think that this season has almost flown by to this point. It feels like just the
01:44 other day, we were still talking about who might Gonzaga start to start the season, but we're
01:49 almost one month away. We're a month closer to the season already being over. That's a little
01:55 depressing, but like you said, yeah, big week for Gonzaga hoops, a week of taking care of business
02:02 in the eyes of us against Portland and Santa Clara at home, bit of a revenge game on top of it being
02:11 senior night for Anton Watson, the only senior on the team. Kind of interesting last year,
02:19 last year, senior night, he was honored. He kind of joked about it this time. It's actually for
02:24 real. He is leaving this time, but last year, there's three seniors that departed that being
02:33 Malachi Smith, Drew Timmy and Razier Bolton. Watson was honored as well. And then Julian
02:38 Strother started that game. So they're going to go from having Watson being the only returner from
02:43 that starting lineup this season. He's going to be projected to be the only one that's leaving.
02:48 Based on the fact that he's a senior. So this is a big week to honor Anton, somebody that
02:56 he has been around for a very long time. I started college when he did, so we're around the same age
03:06 and I think that we are selling. He's still around. He's popping up. He's still around.
03:17 Took that COVID fifth year, of course, has really climbed up the rankings of all the Gonzaga
03:24 record books on top of being the sort of glue guy, the guy that makes all the hustle plays,
03:30 all the dirty plays, the stuff that probably in-house, they keep a lot of those stats, but
03:36 to the outsider, you might not look at his box score and you might not think much of the game
03:43 that he had. But just to rattle off some numbers for him, he's already top 10 in the record books
03:51 for steals and rebounds. No other player in program history can say that. He's also nearing
03:59 the top 10 for blocks, which he could get toward the end of the season, post-season or not.
04:07 And just overall, the do-it-all aspect that he brings to the game has really defined his career
04:15 and the impact he's had on the program. We've heard Mark Few talk about him being
04:21 the most valuable zag on the team this year, and that's the case. I mean, you look at it,
04:26 he's also kept doing the dirty work. He's doing the rebounding aspect. He's playing really good
04:31 defense on top of being a much more aggressive player. He's had two 32-point games, I believe
04:42 six or seven 20-point games this season. Before this year, I believe he only had one or two,
04:48 maybe. So from Anton, it's great that he kind of gets this night to himself almost, and he's not
04:55 going to take it that way. I think he's more locked in on just trying to win the game. I don't see
05:01 him maybe having the Drew Timmy elongated speech before the game like Drew's last year. But
05:09 regardless, it's great for the fans that they're going to be able to really focus on Anton this
05:15 game and hopefully for them, get back at Santa Clara. Yeah, you touched on him climbing up the
05:23 record books with steals, rebounds, games played and wins. He's already top five, which is pretty
05:31 impressive. I look back to his overall, persona is the wrong word, but his overall kind of
05:39 how he presents himself as a player. He's no nonsense. He's hardworking. He's a team first
05:48 guy. He impacts winning. I think that's the biggest way to describe what he's done
05:54 throughout his time at Gonzaga is you want him at the top of the press. Boom. He does that
06:01 tremendously as a freshman before getting hurt and missing some time. You want him to be kind
06:05 of a glue guy early on in his career and defend whether it's the two, three, four or five, he'll
06:11 do it without any complaints. Rebound, he does it without complaining. And then this year, I think
06:17 you're finally starting to see the all around Anton Watson. And I mean that in regards to he's
06:23 scoring the basketball is at a high clip because don't forget, he was one of the two highest rated
06:29 players in the state of Washington coming out his senior year was him and Jaden McDaniels,
06:34 who's played one year at UW before going to the NBA with the Timberwolves. So that's how
06:39 highly of a recruited and evaluated player he was. But his skill set dictates winning more so than
06:48 dictating numbers and getting to what a lot of players end goal is being in the NBA. Now,
06:55 I think over the course of his career, and in particular, the last two and a half, three months,
07:00 he's proven that he's going to get a legitimate shot at the next level in the NBA just because
07:04 he can do all the little things. He started to show the ability to shoot it from beyond the
07:09 three point line, even though that's not, you know, a true strength of his at this moment.
07:14 But he's shooting it at a high enough clip to be respected beyond there. And then he just makes the
07:20 right plays, whether it's on offense, a quick decision, move the ball. He's a great finisher,
07:26 whether it's with him with direct line drives or him on catching and transition. He's a underrated
07:33 cutter and spacer to give teammates opportunities. And then we both touched on the defensive side of
07:38 things. I mean, he's as good a defender as I can remember in this program since maybe Mike Hart.
07:44 I know, obviously, Chet Holmgren is going to get a lot of that kind of emphasis, but, you know,
07:51 that's to be expected. Number two pick in the NBA draft a couple of years ago, he blocked shots,
07:56 but Anton can guard literally every position. And he does it. He does all these things in ways that
08:03 impact winning. Could he have probably scored more as a college player? Absolutely. But that was never
08:09 his role and that was never his focus of what can I do to improve my numbers? It was always what can
08:16 I do to impact winning? And I've gotten to know him a little bit over the years. I mean, I remember
08:21 watching him as as an eighth and ninth grader playing in John Stockton's runs at the warehouse
08:26 and, you know, getting to know him a little bit then. And you're like, hey, this kid's pretty
08:30 talented. And you see him evolve as a high school player. Gonzaga Prep wins two state tournament
08:37 titles there under Matty McIntyre. And then you see the possible trajectory of what he could be
08:42 at the college level. And he's fit that trajectory very well. You know, there were times early in
08:50 this season, honestly, that, you know, fans and people that were on the outside of the program
08:58 wanted more from him. And guess what? He didn't go outside the box and try to do more and really
09:05 force things more on him. He let it happen in the context of the game. But by doing that,
09:10 he continued to impact it in a way that that defines winning and losing. And what I mean by
09:16 that is just, you know, you mentioned the 32 points against UCLA. They don't win that game
09:20 without him having those 32. Mention the 32 points against Santa Clara. They wouldn't have been in
09:26 that game and had a chance to win if he didn't play, I believe it was all 40 minutes and score
09:32 all 32 of those points. And then there's been a number of other games where, you know, he's had
09:37 double doubles. I think he's got four, maybe five double doubles on the season, but it's those quiet
09:42 ones. It's the 13 and 11. It's the 12 and 10 that like, you're not watching the game. You see EK's
09:48 got 21, 22. You see Nolan hit 24 against LMU or 22. But then you look at the final box score is
09:54 like, how did I miss what Anton did? He had whatever numbers they were. I mean, he just
09:58 covers every single facet of the game. And he's done it throughout to impact winning as opposed to
10:07 garnering individual attention. So, you know, hats off to him for a tremendous career. And again,
10:12 you know, I think he's going to get a long look at the next level. There's some things he's going
10:17 to have to improve upon. And I'm sure he knows it after having gone through some of the process
10:21 last year, but you know, NBA teams have shown that they value winners and they value versatility,
10:28 and he provides both of those things. So good stuff. You had some good stuff on Anton as well.
10:34 It's hard to believe that he has been there for five years. So you guys would have been
10:38 freshmen together. Did you have any classes together with Anton in your time? I did. I had
10:44 one sport management class with him and Drew Timmy. Those two, like when they talked about,
10:53 like they always do everything together, they literally did. Like they sat next to each other.
10:57 They left the class together. I remember I tried to pull Drew Timmy aside one time and like,
11:02 Anton kind of started to walk away and Drew was like, whoa, like hold up. And like, really the
11:09 two were so jointed together. So it was hard to not think of one without the other, but Anton,
11:15 yeah, had him in class, very, very quiet dude, like kind of like on the basketball court. Just
11:21 you mentioned he, you look at his box score, how do you have 15? And then the same thing in the
11:25 classroom, he's so, oh, there's Anton. And then you kind of, he wasn't like sit in the back. Oh,
11:30 I'm too cool for everybody, but just, just put his head down and he went to work. It was kind
11:36 of cool having both of those in the class, but yeah, Anton, he's, he's made the winning plays
11:42 throughout his career, you know, doing the little things. And now this year he's,
11:45 he's shown that he's willing the team to victory in some regard that UCLA game and St. Santa Clara,
11:52 you know, if there was a made free throw down the stretch there, who knows if Santa Clara walks out
11:59 of that game with a win, but, and, and over and over like the Kentucky game, he had 17. And I
12:06 remember he had an, and one coming off of a fast break, put Gonzaga double digits plays like that
12:15 where it's just the right moment to seize momentum. He's made that play. A lot of the times
12:23 we've seen it defensively, like you talked about the top of the press. I'd love to know how many
12:28 deflections he's had out of that, especially early on in his career. Gonzaga hasn't gone to it a
12:32 whole lot this season when they do it's it's worked out somewhat, but they just don't do it enough to
12:38 really kind of make it a part of their game. But Anton respectively, like he had always kind of
12:44 made those momentum shifting plays. And now he's just doing it more on the offensive end. He also
12:50 had a big three against Kentucky to sort of give Gonzaga a little bit of breathing room down the
12:55 stretch. I think it was a couple of plays after Kentucky's 12, 0 run. Anton had a big three. So
13:01 he's, he's had one heck of a career, one unique, one heck of a unique career for Gonzaga.
13:08 I'd love to see, I'd love for him to, you know, finish off his, his tenure inside playing the
13:16 kennel. He's played 64. This would be his 64th career game in the kennel. I don't really know
13:22 how many other guys can say they've played that many of him being a fifth year, but I'd love for
13:27 him to finish it off with one final Anton kind of performance. You know, I don't need him. I don't
13:32 need to see him score 30. That'd be awesome. But like, if he just does what he's done throughout
13:37 his career, that would, I think be even more fitting. Yeah. Let's just, let's just have him
13:41 give everybody a simple like 17, seven, four assists, three steals, two blocks shot kind of
13:48 night. That'd be great. Yeah. And he's, and then he just doesn't even, you know, maybe not even do
13:53 the media after the game because I don't know how many times he's done it. No, he definitely will.
13:57 And I I'm sure he'll, I don't know if he'll get very emotional, like I kind of mentioned, but
14:02 yeah, he's they're playing the Santa Clara team. We can kind of get into it that
14:08 Gonzaga really kind of struggled against the first time around, especially out of the gate.
14:15 You know, I, I want to give credit to the Broncos of course.
14:18 Adamo ball played great in that game. But Gonzaga really just came out so flat out of the gate,
14:26 kind of uncharacteristic. And even, you know, at following that game, they haven't really had
14:31 a stretch like that. They missed five of their first six shots.
14:35 The Broncos at a 14 to three rebound advantage at one point in the first half
14:42 that really set the tone. Santa Clara out rebounded against Zaga 44 to 31 on the game.
14:48 And also just had 10 second chance points the first half, just lack of hustle from the Zags,
14:55 I think really killed them out of the gate. And then couple that with offensively,
15:00 they were only two of 20 from three shot 47.8% of the field overall. I think a lot of that had
15:07 to come in the second half as Neb hard really stepped up down the stretch off really did.
15:12 Graham EK wasn't much of a factor. Five fouls only played 17 minutes. He's been really big
15:20 for the Zags as of late had three straight 20 point games against Pacific LMU. And where they
15:29 played for Portland. And then, you know, on top of that, they've been shooting much better from
15:35 three as of late the Zags. Since that game, they've hit six or more threes and eight of those
15:43 and any of the last 10 games, they shot 30% or better. In seven of the last 10 games.
15:49 I mentioned those numbers, those have been really important for the Zags when they hit 30% or better
15:54 from behind the arc, there's 17 to know when they had six or more threes, they're 16 and one,
15:59 then they're undefeated when they shoot 50% or better, which they've done 14 times this season.
16:05 So there is a formula for the Zags. It's been working as of late. A lot of it is inside out
16:11 with Graham EK. I think it really starts with him if he can stay out of foul trouble. A lot of it is
16:17 even offensive rebounding. I see him get tiki tac ones, trying to fight for the ball, which
16:22 obviously you're not going to condemn him for fighting for the ball, but he's got to be a
16:26 little smarter about it when he gets into foul trouble. And then also ball movement.
16:33 Gonzaga only had eight assists against Santa Clara that first time. And Ryan and impart had
16:38 five of those. He actually had one of his better games 21 points, five assists, zero turnovers.
16:43 He's been on a terror lately. Gonzaga is 15 to know when they have 15 or more assists in a game.
16:49 So ball movement, playing smart, and overall, just coming out with more assertiveness,
16:58 more urgency than they did down in Santa Clara. I think if they do those three things,
17:02 that's going to really bode well in this matchup. Yeah, you hit on a lot of great things in regards
17:08 to that first matchup. Some of the things that really caught my eye were the eight assists
17:13 on 32, that made field goals and two of 20 from three. I mean, I think this is the low point in
17:19 the last 25 years of Gonzaga basketball, shooting it from the perimeter. I can't remember another
17:24 game that was this poor from beyond the arc. But one of the other things that stood out to me in
17:30 this game was the fact that you had Grammy K five points only played 17 minutes because of foul
17:36 trouble and ultimately fouled out. Dusty Stromer, I believe this was the last game he started
17:42 before they switched the starting lineup. He did not score. Nolan Hickman was one of nine. And then
17:49 Ben Gregg, who's played really well since going in that starting lineup, didn't score either. So
17:54 I think this was the turning point for Gonzaga's season. You hate to say a loss turned your season
18:02 around because you don't want those losses. But in regards to they reshuffled the deck with the
18:09 starting lineup, I think what it does is it balances out your rotations, your substitution
18:14 pattern. So now it's a more balanced. You've got one big coming off the bench in Braden Huff,
18:21 where before you had two and now you got one primary wing player, Dusty Stromer, coming in
18:27 off the bench. So you have those guys for sure. And then depending on feel the game and matchups,
18:34 Prinovich has started to become that first ball handler off the bench as well. So I think this
18:40 game really kickstarted Gonzaga to play better down the stretch of WCC. Now I know they lost to
18:47 St. Mary's and there's nothing you can do about it. I think St. Mary's is a better team than a
18:51 lot of people thought coming in. That's the reason they're ranked 18th or whatever it is in the
18:56 country now, just withstood a challenge from San Francisco the other night. So I think this game
19:02 showed some things. I think what Gonzaga needs to do Saturday night to come away with the win is
19:10 control Adama Ball. I thought he was really good in that game. Carlos Marshall Jr.'s.
19:13 The report right now is it looks like he's not going to play, but he's been in and out of the
19:18 lineup. You know, Santa Clara is a pretty scrappy team. They've gotten into it a couple of times.
19:24 They had a it wasn't a bench clearing brawl, but it was a it was a get up off the bench kind of
19:29 argument against San Francisco. And then Brent Knapper also kind of punched Mitchell Saxon
19:37 in clear plain sight of the official at midcourt when they were at St. Mary's. So this is an
19:43 emotional team and it'll be interesting to see which emotional team, good or bad, shows up for
19:51 Santa Clara. I think for Gonzaga to to to really kind of put the screws on them early. They need
19:58 to come out, as you mentioned, focused, determined, get off to a great start and kind of put put no
20:04 doubt in their mind and no doubt in Santa Clara's mind that Gonzaga is going to win.
20:08 That can be harder to do on senior night when there's a lot of emotion. But I don't think it
20:15 will be as hard this senior night because there's only one senior in Anton Watson. The one year
20:22 Gonzaga kind of had a senior night that I thought it messed with them a little bit was when they
20:27 were undefeated and they had a home game against BYU. And this it was Nigel Williams, Goss. It was,
20:35 I believe, Shemek Karnowski. They put guys like Rem Backmas in the starting lineup, which they
20:40 should. But it threw their rhythm off for the game. You know, ball gets past a rim or sorry,
20:47 ball doesn't get past a rim where for into any other guy, balls getting swung there, that shot's
20:52 getting taken for whatever reason. I think it was Nigel Williams. I remember this play clearly.
20:57 Rem's open. He doesn't throw it simply because he's not used to playing with Rem in practices or
21:03 even in game situation. He doesn't throw it. All of a sudden their offense is really stagnant to
21:07 get started in that game. And this is at least from the way I remember it six, seven years later,
21:12 BYU gets off to a better start than they would have probably gotten off to against their other
21:17 group. They hung around, hung around and then, you know, ended up winning that game. So there
21:22 can be positive as well as negative emotions in regards to senior night. I think with only having
21:28 one senior and the fact that it's Anton, he's been there, done that. He's a Spokane kid. He's
21:33 already seen his family and friends pretty much at every game for five years. It shouldn't be much
21:38 of a deal, but important to get off to a good start. It looks at this moment in time that
21:43 a league titles out of their grasp just because San Francisco didn't get the job done, but you
21:50 still got to take care of this one and then San Francisco to get another quad one win and then
21:55 give yourself another quad one opportunity against St. Mary's on the road. Because you look at a lot
22:01 of these bracketologists, some have them in, some have them out, keep winning and it's going to take
22:06 more of that doubt off. It'll take more pressure off as you get down into Vegas for the conference
22:11 tournament. So just a few thoughts I had on that. But, you know, I think a big thing is get off to
22:16 a great start and kind of let Santa Clara know they're out for business after having lost the
22:24 game down in Santa Clara. Yeah, I actually kind of got a little chills when you mentioned that
22:31 BYU game from 2017. I will always remember Eric Mica having an absolute monster night,
22:40 29 points. I'm not going to think about that game anymore, but you're right. I think senior
22:46 night does have an odd feel to it. You want to obviously honor your guys. Anton only being the
22:53 first one or the only one, I'm sorry. You know, I don't know how long this the pregame thing is
22:59 going to go on, so I don't know how much it's going to throw either side out of its rhythm.
23:04 But you did mention a few things about Santa Clara in regard to Adamo Ball. He did miss three
23:11 straight games with an undisclosed injury. Santa Clara went two and one in those games.
23:18 The only loss was at USF in a game that they somehow blew an 18-point lead. Not one player
23:27 scored more than 12 points for Santa Clara, so you kind of saw a team that wasn't really sure
23:33 how it was going to get many buckets without its leading scorer. Johnny O'Neal has stepped up
23:40 without Adamo Ball. He's averaged 14 points in those three games that they didn't have Ball.
23:45 He has four double doubles on the season, including back-to-back double doubles without
23:52 Ball. Jalen Benjamin, he had 23 against San Diego. He was suspended for that fight that
24:00 you mentioned, the USF game. Carlos Parcells Jr., he has come off the bench. I'm not sure
24:06 what's going on there, but the Broncos have switched up their lineup quite a bit since
24:13 that Gonzaga game. Jake Ensminger, who had five offensive rebounds against the Zags, it felt like
24:20 in the first five minutes he did that. He started three straight games. He had 17 against Pacific.
24:26 That was a season high. Then he had a four-game streak of 10 or more rebounds. A great hustle
24:33 player. Hard to keep off the glass, especially on the offensive end. Christian Hammond, he started
24:40 against Pacific and San Diego. He didn't play a single minute against Gonzaga. Then Brent Knapper,
24:47 who started against Gonzaga, he missed games against Pacific and San Diego. A little bit of
24:54 a different look for Santa Clara. I almost said San Diego. Different look for Santa Clara this
25:00 time around. It'll be interesting to see how they handle that. You mentioned Ben Gregg. I think he,
25:06 I completely forgot that that was Stromer's last game that he started before Gregg took over.
25:12 Gonzaga's been great on the offensive end. One of the highest offensive-rated teams in the country
25:21 since he's been in the starting lineup. Gregg has had, he's played really well on the road.
25:26 Five of his six road games since being a starter, he's had double figures in scoring. I think he
25:32 does do a lot of things differently for the Zags in terms of overall energy. He's got that IQ to
25:39 sort of know when to cut. He's had a few cuts on the baseline, I feel like, that have kind of
25:45 helped Gonzaga when the offense is maybe in a standstill for a moment. He's done a lot of great
25:51 things offensively, as well as just rebounding, playing solid defense. Gonzaga, I wouldn't say
25:59 defensively has, okay, technically, if you look at the numbers, it hasn't been one of the great
26:05 statistical seasons from an efficiency standpoint. They haven't allowed 80, I think they've only
26:12 allowed 80 points or more just twice this season. Last season, they did that six times. So it feels
26:17 like defensively, it isn't completely falling off the tracks. But as of late, it's sort of, I think,
26:25 gotten a little bit lackadaisical. Anton, after the Pacific game, he said it himself, he needed
26:33 to start playing a little bit more nasty. And the team as a whole just sort of need to improve in
26:38 one-on-one defense, just staying in front of their man. So things that I think could get cleaned up
26:44 with more attention to detail and a little bit more sense of urgency on that side of the floor.
26:50 Against a good Santa Clara team, Wendfall is in the lineup. It's a great offensive team. It's one
26:56 of the better three-point shooting teams in the WCC. So, you know, depending on who is in and out
27:03 for Santa Clara, it will really have an impact on how Gonzaga plays this defensively. But I think
27:11 overall, it does come down to attention to detail, taking care of the ball once again, not letting
27:19 this, you know, it is senior night, you know, it's a celebratory night. Anton himself is, I think,
27:25 more locked in probably than anybody else. So as long as, you know, he's there and mentally locked
27:31 in, I think the team follows suit in that regard. So yeah, another big week, another big Saturday
27:39 for the Zags at home, their last one of the season before heading back on the road to face San
27:46 Francisco and St. Mary's down the stretch. You mentioned St. Mary's. They've all but locked up
27:54 the WCC. They're still undefeated, the last Division I team to be undefeated in conference
28:01 play. I believe I saw a stat the other night after they beat USF. There hasn't been a non-Gonzaga team
28:08 to finish unbeaten in WCC play since Pepperdine did it in the 90s. That is crazy. St. Mary's is
28:17 only a few games away from doing that, but they're going to have to host Gonzaga in that regular
28:23 season finale that will have, even if it doesn't have, you know, first or second place implications
28:29 of the league standings, it's going to have a lot of NCAA tournament implications as well. So
28:35 this is a big week, but it's hard not to look ahead. I know this team doesn't do that, but
28:42 from our perspective, you know, everyone is really looking ahead to these last 14 days or so WCC play.
28:52 Yeah, you got some other really good points there. I didn't know about that Pepperdine stat. I would
28:58 imagine, I don't know if that was late 90s or if it was early 90s with Doug Chrissy, but that was
29:03 awesome. I think it was early 90s. So that must have been Doug Chrissy. Those were some good
29:08 squads, that's for sure. So Cole, as always, good stuff. It should be exciting to see how this game
29:15 transpires on senior night and then look forward to breaking down the USF and the St. Mary's match
29:22 up next week. Because I know it's the point of the year now where guys feel the crunch of,
29:30 you know, the importance of games. But as an analyst myself, I enjoy watching players
29:36 performing crunch time. And I'm sure you as a journalist that's looking for insight in story
29:41 ideas, you want to write about guys that step up to the challenge. And there's plenty of
29:45 opportunities these last couple weeks. So Cole, appreciate the time. We'll connect again real soon.
29:51 Sure thing, Dan.