Former Gonzaga All-American Dan Dickau and Gonzaga Nation reporter Cole Forsman preview the Bulldogs' high-anticipated rematch with Saint Mary's in the WCC regular season finale.
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00:00 - Gonzaga Nation here, Dan Dickow alongside Cole Forsman.
00:05 A little unique setup this week for our conversation.
00:10 Usually, Cole and I are both in an office setting
00:13 where we kind of can control the environment a little bit.
00:17 I'm not this week.
00:18 You can see I'm in the great outdoors.
00:19 My son's in the high school state tournament
00:22 in the state of Washington.
00:23 And I'm at a little rental house with the family.
00:26 As everyone's doing homework, I gotta do my work.
00:29 So I step outside.
00:30 So I'm gonna brave the elements, the cold.
00:33 There's some geese around the corner.
00:34 There's some ducks waddling around.
00:36 So hopefully I don't get too distracted.
00:38 But here again with Cole Forsman
00:41 to quickly recap the USF game.
00:44 And more importantly, preview the St. Mary's game,
00:47 which turns out is gonna be not for a league title,
00:52 which a lot of people were hoping for,
00:54 but I think it's gonna be a spectacular game on Saturday.
00:56 So sorry, Cole, for the long intro,
00:59 but I had to kind of give a little bit of a background
01:01 if you're watching this as to why I'm in the woods.
01:04 So good to see you, Cole.
01:07 - Good to see you, Dan.
01:08 I'm concerned.
01:09 I'm seeing air, your breath literally in the air.
01:12 I hope you're staying warm
01:14 on the very chilly west side of the state.
01:16 It's sunny where I am.
01:17 You can't see that,
01:18 but I appreciate you braving the elements to preview.
01:23 Yeah, very important St. Mary's game.
01:25 Obviously last night Gonzaga took care of step one
01:29 on this road trip,
01:30 the big win over San Francisco, 86 to 68.
01:34 Early on, it felt a lot like the first matchup
01:38 between Gonzaga and San Francisco and Spokane.
01:42 A lot of back and forth in the first half.
01:44 San Francisco made a lot of difficult shots.
01:48 Malik Thomas really was able to get to his spots.
01:52 Him, Jonathan Mogbo had a good stretch in the first half,
01:55 as well as Marcus Williams.
01:57 Controlled the pace very well at the Chase Center.
02:02 And Gonzaga absolutely flipped the script.
02:06 They didn't lead for much that first half
02:09 until Anton Watson had a turnaround hook,
02:12 made it 35, 34 at the break.
02:14 And I think Gonzaga got out to a 22 to three run
02:18 in that second half.
02:19 Just absolutely put the Dons away.
02:22 Made 12 of their first 13 shots.
02:24 The offense was clicking.
02:26 Graham E.K., another monster night.
02:28 We're going to talk about him.
02:29 26 points, nine to 12 from the field.
02:33 Nolan Hickman had a great second half.
02:36 19 of his 22 came in that final 20 minute stretch.
02:40 Ryan Nembhard had some turnover issues in the first half.
02:44 He really stepped up in the second as well.
02:46 15 points, six assists, and nine rebounds to lead the team.
02:51 He was phenomenal pretty much on all fronts after halftime.
02:55 And San Francisco, it was interesting.
02:59 You talked about in our preview of the day
03:03 before that they're a very difficult team to guard
03:06 because they run so many different actions.
03:07 And we saw a lot of that in the first half.
03:10 Mogbo, at the top of the key, he had a really nice bounce pass
03:14 into Marcus Williams.
03:15 And it was like, wow, this is going to be
03:18 another difficult team to stop.
03:20 And then the second half, I think Gonzaga
03:23 knocked it out of the rhythm, knocked the wind out
03:25 of their sails with that run.
03:26 But San Francisco just didn't run as many sets, it felt like.
03:29 It felt like a lot more one-on-one action.
03:32 Mogbo wasn't as aggressive, it seemed like.
03:35 It seemed like he was active on the offensive glass,
03:39 but he would just swing it out.
03:41 And San Francisco down 10, it just
03:44 felt like there wasn't a sense of urgency to get back into it.
03:46 So kudos to the coaching staff for Gonzaga really adjusting.
03:53 San Francisco really didn't have an answer for EK
03:56 in either half.
03:57 It seemed like any double team they sent,
04:00 EK either just powered his way through
04:03 or swung it out to the outside.
04:05 And Gonzaga was able to attack off that.
04:08 There was never a zone from San Francisco,
04:10 which was curious considering Gonzaga was, I think,
04:13 0 for 4 from 3.
04:15 They only were 3 of 10 overall from downtown.
04:18 And it seemed like there weren't any adjustments made
04:22 to stop Gonzaga before it was too little too late.
04:25 So great momentum for the Zags heading into a top 25
04:30 matchup against St. Mary's.
04:32 And yeah, you mentioned it, no league titles on the line.
04:36 And Gonzaga's locked into that number two seed.
04:38 But another quad one opportunity to really solidify
04:42 their NCAA tournament at large resume.
04:45 Right now, they're one of the last four in still.
04:48 So another quad one win before the WCC tournament
04:52 really changes the tides for them going forward
04:55 heading into Las Vegas.
04:58 Yeah, a couple of things to touch on real quick.
05:00 You mentioned the USF game.
05:02 Graham EK has been as dominant of host player
05:06 in this last 7, 8, 9 games that I can remember
05:10 outside of Drew Timmy.
05:11 I mean, and here's the thing is Drew Timmy
05:13 had stretches where he had 14, 15 point games.
05:17 And I'm not taking away anything from Drew Timmy.
05:19 I'm not doing that.
05:20 But I just want to share just how dominant Graham EK has been.
05:24 I mean, in particular, the last four games,
05:26 he's averaging like 24 points a game.
05:29 And he's shooting like 75% from the field in those games.
05:33 I mean, he's getting incredibly deep post position.
05:37 He's making teams pay.
05:38 When they double, he's making correct reads.
05:41 Sometimes he's spinning away from the double.
05:43 Sometimes with his strength, he's able to split the double.
05:46 If he doesn't like what he sees, he moves it to the next guy
05:49 and trusts everything.
05:50 He's just playing unbelievably well.
05:52 Nolan Hickman, you touched on a great second half.
05:54 I agree.
05:55 The two things I think to keep an eye on, in particular,
06:01 if they do match up again in the semifinals of the WCC
06:08 tournament is Gonzaga had 17 turnovers.
06:10 And most of those, yes, I believe
06:13 came in the first half where it was 35-34 Gonzaga at the half
06:17 before they went on that massive run to start the second.
06:20 But San Francisco has some quickness
06:23 to be able to kind of junk things up, switch things,
06:25 gamble, get out in passing lanes.
06:27 Gonzaga's going to have to do a better job taking
06:29 care of the ball than that against St. Mary's.
06:32 And then also if they have this matchup between the Dons
06:34 and the Zags in Vegas for the semifinals.
06:37 And then the other thing would be the fact
06:39 that it was a very, very limited rotation.
06:44 Dusty Stromer had 23 minutes off the bench.
06:47 He didn't score it again, only four points.
06:51 I thought defensively he was--
06:55 he's getting better.
06:56 On occasion, he gambles, gets out of position,
06:58 gives up a bucket.
06:59 But you're seeing continued growth from him.
07:03 I mean, obviously, he's not scoring it the way
07:06 that a lot of people were expecting.
07:08 But he's improving in other aspects.
07:09 He's earned Coach Few's trust.
07:11 Look, he's playing 23 minutes in an important game as a freshman.
07:17 So I think that's important to note.
07:19 But yeah, let's skip right back to the main deal.
07:22 And that's the Saturday game against St. Mary's.
07:25 Unfortunately for Zag fans, it's not for a conference title.
07:29 I think what it is for, it's for solidifying yourselves
07:33 in the NCAA tournament.
07:34 If they win this, I don't think there's any questions asked.
07:37 They're in the NCAA tournament.
07:38 If they lose, I think now you're starting to look at, OK,
07:42 we really need to go win the WCC Conference Tournament.
07:46 But the way they're playing right now,
07:48 they're really clicking on all cylinders.
07:51 They're offensively the most efficient team in the country
07:54 since, I think, January 1.
07:57 So they're playing really good basketball.
08:00 But I'm curious, you, Cole, with watching all the games,
08:06 covering all the games, is there one or two things in your eyes
08:10 to keep an eye out for with this matchup on Saturday?
08:15 Yeah, when I think back to the first St. Mary's game,
08:19 Gonzaga led, I think, for 30 or 32 minutes,
08:22 roughly, in that first matchup in Spokane.
08:26 And it seemed like it all boiled down to--
08:29 or, I almost said San Francisco.
08:30 St. Mary's had a 6-0 run late in that second half.
08:34 And it seemingly just took the win right out
08:37 of Gonzaga's sails.
08:38 We talk about when St. Mary's gets a 5, 6-point lead,
08:43 it feels like double digits because of just that slow tempo
08:47 that they play, really limiting you to possession,
08:51 to really just play perfect basketball because there's
08:55 so few possessions.
08:56 And in that first half, I remember a lot
08:59 of switching on defense like Gonzaga did in regard
09:03 to Mitchell Saxon, mainly in the pick and roll.
09:07 And I like the strategy.
09:09 I don't have a problem with it.
09:10 It just seemed like there were a few late rotations
09:12 that St. Mary's didn't always take advantage of.
09:16 But it sort of opened the door later down the road
09:20 for Gonzaga to just click.
09:24 It wasn't all clicking mentally, I feel like, at certain points.
09:27 So I think being mentally tough in a very, very difficult
09:31 environment to play in down there in Moraga,
09:34 where Gonzaga has not performed up to par
09:37 with their typical standards throughout the WCC.
09:40 But I look at defensively, how can they get stops?
09:47 And I don't even want to say get in transition,
09:49 but just keep St. Mary's off the glass.
09:52 That was something that was pivotal last night
09:55 in that San Francisco game, one and done, just stop San
10:01 Francisco, get the rebound, and go.
10:03 I think that's going to be crucial this time around,
10:06 even if Gonzaga isn't able to score on the break
10:09 or Ryan Nembhard isn't able to push every single possession
10:12 down the floor, just staying in a rhythm
10:15 and being able to succeed in St. Mary's slow pace.
10:21 Because I don't think Gonzaga is going
10:23 to be able to speed them up.
10:24 Now, what I'm also looking out for
10:26 is Joshua Jefferson is out for the remainder of the season
10:31 with a leg injury.
10:33 In that first matchup, he had 16 points and 11 rebounds,
10:36 really had an impact in that second half.
10:38 I think he had six straight points coming out
10:40 of the locker room and really helped set the tone.
10:44 On the season, he's averaging a little over 10,
10:46 6 and 1/2 rebounds, two assists, and a little over one steal.
10:51 So he's a little like their Anton Watson
10:53 to a degree in which he can do it all offensively,
10:57 a little bit of everything.
10:58 And he's willing and capable of making every play defensively.
11:03 He can switch them on multiple positions.
11:06 He can guard one through four pretty much.
11:09 So I know St. Mary's is a very team-oriented offense
11:13 and defense to the point where you can--
11:16 Mason Forbes has stepped up.
11:17 And that's just sort of how their system is.
11:19 It's very not reliant on one person.
11:23 And they're going to figure it out.
11:24 It is a next man up mentality.
11:26 But at what point does the loss of Jefferson
11:29 have an impact at all on this game?
11:31 I'm looking for that.
11:33 And for Gonzaga, I think keeping Graham Ekay on the floor,
11:38 Mark Fuse talked about the trend lately
11:41 is he's picking up a lot of tiki-tac fouls.
11:43 He fouled out against San Francisco.
11:44 It didn't really seem to matter until the final minute
11:48 when San Francisco, they pressed for some reason down 20
11:53 with like five minutes.
11:54 I don't know what that was.
11:56 But the point is keeping Graham Ekay on the floor,
11:59 Nolan Hickman staying mentally locked in from behind the arc.
12:03 Last night was a lot of growth from him in terms of he
12:06 didn't have a great first half.
12:08 But his teammates were telling him
12:10 the ball is going to drop in the second half.
12:11 And it did.
12:12 And he stayed mentally locked in.
12:14 And I think that was a big moment for him on the road.
12:17 So between Hickman and Ekay, staying on the floor,
12:21 staying mentally locked in, I think Gonzaga on offense
12:23 will be great.
12:24 Defensively, just got to slug it out for 30,
12:28 34 seconds against St. Mary's in their bigs.
12:32 And if they do that, then it's just keeping the course,
12:35 staying the course.
12:36 Even if it's a two to three point game,
12:37 not letting the crowd get into it, staying locked in,
12:41 I think they'll have a great shot at winning.
12:44 Yeah, there are lots of good points there.
12:46 So I mean, there's clearly lots to unpack in this matchup,
12:49 Gonzaga-St. Mary's.
12:51 So I thought you had some good points.
12:52 I think for me, a couple of the focus points
12:54 are whatever pace the game is played at that you
13:00 are able to impose upon, you're in the driver's seat.
13:03 So if Gonzaga can get off to a good start and get a lead,
13:07 now all of a sudden, the game can be played at their pace.
13:11 And St. Mary's can't slow it down as much as they would like.
13:14 In the flip side, St. Mary's gets off to a good start.
13:18 They can kind of control the game
13:20 and not allow the speed to go into Gonzaga's favor.
13:24 Now, one of the ways that Gonzaga at times
13:27 has been able to speed St. Mary's up, in particular,
13:29 last year, is the three-quarter court press,
13:32 many times with Anton Watson up at the top.
13:35 Gonzaga did that in the first matchup in Spokane this year.
13:40 They weren't able to create the turnovers off of it
13:42 this year as maybe they had in years past.
13:44 I think it shows a lot to the growth of Mahaney,
13:47 as well as Marcellonis, year over year.
13:50 And I would expect Gonzaga to keep that three-quarter court
13:54 trap up there a little bit.
13:58 Even if you don't turn it over and get yourself out
14:02 in transition, what it a lot of times
14:04 does is, for a team that wants to play as slow as St. Mary's,
14:09 if you're playing a typical possession,
14:11 you might have seven or eight actions, three or four
14:15 ball screens to guard.
14:17 Where if you put a three-quarter court press on,
14:21 they take 10 to 12 seconds to deal with that,
14:24 three to four seconds now to get organized in the half court.
14:28 Now, maybe you're only dealing with one ball screen,
14:30 or two ball screens at best.
14:32 Or maybe you're dealing with one,
14:35 throw it into the post to Saxon and read, are you doubling?
14:39 Are you digging down?
14:40 What is your coverage?
14:41 So really, essentially, what it does is it shortens the game,
14:44 and it shortens the possessions as far as how many coverages
14:47 you have to take care of.
14:51 So I think that's something that you're going to see a fair bit
14:54 amount from Gonzaga.
14:56 You touched on Jefferson.
14:57 That's a huge loss for them, not just in this game,
15:00 but I do also think for St. Mary's opportunity
15:03 to advance to the second, or even to the second weekend
15:07 in the NCAA tournament.
15:09 Because quite frankly, I think they're that good of a team.
15:11 That's Jefferson, that they could be a sweet 16 team.
15:14 Forbes just provides a little dynamic, doesn't handle it,
15:17 doesn't score it, doesn't make plays for others.
15:19 He's strictly a rebounder, defender for him, energy guy.
15:24 And so it changes some of the things that they can do.
15:28 I think the other key thing to really keep an eye out on
15:31 is, as much as people talk about Gonzaga lost that first game,
15:39 they were in control of the game pretty much the whole way.
15:42 St. Mary's went on that late 7-0 run
15:44 after Graham Ekay picked up his fourth foul.
15:47 And a lot of people are going to say, well,
15:49 Coach, you never subbed Graham Ekay back in.
15:51 Well, yes, that is true to a certain extent.
15:54 But Graham Ekay was sitting at the scorers table,
15:57 I think for a good 2 and 1/2 minutes,
15:59 waiting to get back in when they went on that 7-0 run.
16:03 So now you're in that boat where you
16:07 don't want to turn it over for a dead ball
16:09 to then give St. Mary's an extra possession just
16:13 to get him back in the game.
16:14 You don't have a timeout to use because they burned one,
16:18 I believe, on a loose ball scrum where instead of a jump ball,
16:22 somebody called a timeout while on the ground
16:25 early in that second half if I remember right.
16:27 But then you also don't want to just foul somebody
16:29 to put him at the free throw line
16:31 just to get Graham Ekay back in because that
16:33 could be an easy two points.
16:35 So lots of chatter about that kind of stretch,
16:40 that first matchup.
16:41 I don't think there was anything wrong with the thought process.
16:46 It just so happened that there was no dead balls
16:48 in that scenario to get Ekay back in the game
16:51 because when Ekay's been in the game,
16:53 Gonzaga's been dominant over the last two months.
16:56 So a couple of things that caught my eye.
17:00 Last question I've got for you.
17:03 We touched a little bit about this in our last one.
17:07 And it was the WCC Player of the Year.
17:09 After Graham Ekay's performance, I'm
17:12 starting to go 90-10 Graham Ekay as the Player of the Year.
17:15 I know you texted me yesterday kind of towards the end
17:19 of the stretch part of the game asking me
17:21 if I want to change my vote because I was pretty
17:24 wishy-washy on about four guys the other day.
17:27 I'm going 90% Graham Ekay Player of the Year.
17:30 If Gonzaga wins this in Moraga and he plays as well as he
17:35 has been playing, I think I'm going to 100%
17:37 switch it to Graham Ekay.
17:38 So that's my thought.
17:40 What are yours?
17:42 I am glad that you have come over to the right side
17:45 now because look, I love--
17:49 and I said this the other day.
17:50 I like the logic of giving the award
17:52 to the best player who's performed
17:54 the best on the best team.
17:56 That's sound logic.
17:57 And I mean, who's going to argue that?
17:59 But even with a close second place finish,
18:03 if Gonzaga wins and they're now one game back
18:07 in the standings, just based on Graham Ekay's last month
18:11 or so, that alone has put him in the front runner position
18:16 to win this award to me.
18:18 I don't know.
18:20 You touched on-- it feels a lot like what Drew Timmy was doing.
18:24 Just simply every single possession
18:26 not getting complacent with doing the same thing over
18:30 and over.
18:31 I remember San Francisco, the commentators
18:33 were calling out exactly what he's going to do,
18:35 and it worked every single time.
18:37 Like San Francisco wouldn't do anything.
18:39 And I think when you have that for Gonzaga,
18:43 if he can keep it going against St. Mary's,
18:46 then not only are they going to win this game,
18:47 but Ekay should walk away with the WCC Player of the Year.
18:54 I don't know when voting goes on.
18:57 I don't know if it's before--
18:58 I can't remember if it's before the tournament, the WCC
19:01 tournament, or if it's after.
19:03 It's before the tournament, yeah.
19:05 Since it's before the tournament,
19:06 this is not a postseason award, much like the NFL MVP
19:09 and the NBA MVP.
19:11 This is a regular season award.
19:12 So I look at Marcialonis's numbers.
19:17 I'm looking at Mahaney's and St. Mary's.
19:20 It's almost like they're so well-rounded,
19:24 and they have so many dudes that can do so many different things
19:27 that it's hurting their individual players' cases
19:30 to win the award.
19:31 That's how I've almost seen it.
19:32 And Gonzaga, I mean, obviously, Zags still have dudes.
19:35 They always have.
19:36 But when you have one guy just separating himself
19:40 above the rest, and to have someone like Ekay
19:43 mean so much to what they do offensively,
19:46 how it opens up lanes for Nembhard
19:49 when he is able to attack out of an EK double team,
19:53 or when Hickman is able to line up an open three,
19:56 or Watson is on the other side waiting to crash,
20:00 like it's that sort of ability to heighten everybody else
20:06 around him just by his presence.
20:07 I think you're seeing it in the numbers,
20:10 and I think that's his case for WCC Player of the Year.
20:14 All right, there you have it.
20:15 You have fully committed yourself to Ekay as your vote.
20:18 As of now, I'm 90-10.
20:21 If Gonzaga wins in Moraga, yes, I'm going to go with Ekay.
20:24 So great stuff today, as always, Cole.
20:27 Look forward to reading your game preview.
20:31 And then I'm sure we will be chatting again
20:34 in the very near future in regards
20:37 to who Gonzaga will be playing in the WCC tournament.
20:40 As of now, it looks like they will be the two seed.
20:43 I think it's locked in that they will be the two seed.
20:45 But they still have a lot to play for in regards
20:48 to solidifying themselves in the NCAA tournament
20:51 in the minds of the selection committee.
20:53 So for Cole Forsman, I'm Dan Dickow.
20:56 This is Gonzaga Nation.