On "Forbes Newsroom," Rep. John Larson (D-CT) spoke about the inexplicable lack of movement by Congress on Social Security in 50 years, the vital nature of the programming in stemming both senior and childhood poverty, his proposed reform package called the "Social Security 2100 Act," and more.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis with Forbes Breaking News. Joining me now is Congressman
00:07John Larson. Congressman, thank you so much for joining me.
00:09Good to be with you, Brittany.
00:12You've been a leader in Congress when it comes to Social Security. Recently on the House
00:17floor, you've expressed your frustration about the lack of movement on the issue. And you
00:21said this, quote, Congress has not acted since 1971 to enhance and improve anything about
00:27Social Security. So can you talk to us here a little bit about your concerns?
00:32Well, as you know, Brittany, Social Security is the nation's number one anti-poverty program
00:38for the elderly. It's also the number one anti-poverty program for children. And imagine
00:45the last time that Congress has acted to enhance the program, Richard Nixon was president of
00:53the United States. That was back in 1971. Let me add that both Eisenhower and Nixon,
00:59two stalwart Republicans, enhanced Social Security because they knew of the success
01:07of the program. But it's been more than 50 years since Congress, which is the only body
01:15that can change and enhance Social Security, has not taken direct action. And suffice it
01:22to say, I think for your viewers, they all understand that a lot of things have changed
01:26since 1971, including the cost of living.
01:32Of course. And as you know, as I'm sure your constituents know, our viewers know, the economy
01:37is one of the top issues facing Americans as we sit here right now. Social Security
01:43is a concern, especially for older Americans. Why has there not been movement on this in
01:4850 years? And you've been in Congress since 1999. So where's the solution?
01:55It defies any semblance of logic. For some, they've called Social Security the third rail.
02:03But there's an element that believes that Social Security is socialism. They feel that
02:09it costs too much money. But if you examine Social Security, and as the president said
02:17in his State of the Union message, really, there's a large, a vast group of people, because
02:22as you know, Brittany, Social Security is capped. President Biden has said, let's lift
02:27the cap on people over $400,000 of income. Now, that's six-tenths of 1% of the American
02:36people. But for many of them, they either pay nothing into Social Security because they
02:41avoid the payroll tax altogether, or they're done paying if they're millionaires in February,
02:47if they're billionaires January 2nd, while every other American who's part of the program
02:54pays throughout the course of the year. So to lift that cap would allow us to enhance benefits
03:01that haven't been enhanced in more than 50 years, and then also extend solvency beyond 2066,
03:11both of which are vitally important in why Congress needs to act. And what's frustrating,
03:17I think, to the American people is all they're asking of Congress to do is vote. That's why
03:23we put out Social Security 2100, which follows a number of the president's suggested changes to it,
03:31including an increase across the board for everyone, making sure that the 23 million
03:38Americans who are currently still working and receive Social Security, that their Social
03:44Security benefits aren't taxed, lifting people who have worked all their lives and paid into
03:50the system who get a below poverty level check from Social Security, creating a new floor for
03:57Social Security, repealing the onerous WEP and GPO formulas that were put in place back in the 1980s,
04:06the last time that Congress actually looked at Social Security and extended its solvency,
04:13but it did so by raising the age. And that's the misnomer that I think a lot of people don't
04:18understand. Currently, Republicans say, well, you know, people are living longer. Well, yes,
04:24that's true. They are, and we're happy to see that. Now, pandemic may slightly change that,
04:30but nonetheless, they are living longer. But for every year you raise the age, that's a 7%
04:37cut in benefits. So let me get this straight, Brittany. How does it make sense that if you're
04:43living longer, a program hasn't been adjusted in more than 50 years, that you're going to be
04:49living on less? It makes no sense whatsoever. But I think that story hasn't been told.
04:57And that's why we put out Social Security 2100. We have over 190 plus sponsors already. We think
05:07we'd like to see it brought up this year. We'd like to see it brought up. And I know if it goes
05:11to the floor, my colleagues on the other side are going to vote for it. But there has been a
05:17philosophical disagreement over this, over some who believe that everybody ought to be able to
05:22pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and there's no need for governmental programs,
05:27et cetera. The great irony, of course, is they call it an entitlement. But as you know, this
05:33is not an entitlement. This is an earned benefit. And people, all they have to do is go to their pay
05:39stub and they look at it and it says FICA. What does that stand for? Federal Insurance
05:47Contribution. Who's? Theirs. And they understand it. It's an earned benefit that has no impact
05:55on our debt or deficit. Another bogus claim that is made by the other side. It's a separate trust
06:03fund that's there for the American people that they have paid for. I can hear how passionate
06:11you are, Congressman. And you said this now. You've also said this on the House floor over
06:16a year ago, that Social Security is not an entitlement. It's an earned benefit. So where
06:22do you where do what do you think's missing then from the national dialogue when it comes to Social
06:27Security? Because you said this story has it. That's a story that hasn't been told yet when
06:32it comes to the age. So what's missing here? I think what's missing here is the willingness
06:39to vote. And currently the situation, whether the House or the Senate, but I'm more familiar
06:46with the House, is that they won't even bring it up in the committee for a vote. And so I don't
06:54understand the fear because many Republicans have said to me privately and candidly that they would
07:00vote for this bill, etc. But their leadership and their contributors have a problem for it. And this
07:07is another thing I don't understand. For every business that pays part of the Social Security,
07:13meaning the employer pays part and and the employee pays part, but the employer gets a
07:20tax write off for that part. So it's not costing the employer anything. And what it's doing is
07:26help shrink, as you pointed out earlier, the vast wealth gap that exists. Imagine five million
07:34Americans, most of them, by the way, Brittany women, get below poverty level checks from the
07:40government having worked and paid into the system. Why? Because they were the care providers, because
07:47they were home with their children or a sick person in their family. And while they were working,
07:53as you also know, they were making far less than their male counterparts. Now fast forward to today,
08:0010,000 baby boomers a day become eligible for Social Security. That's why I think that especially
08:10as those baby boomers are having their kitchen table discussions and talking with their accounts,
08:16attorneys or just family members saying, hey, what's the deal with this Social Security? Yeah,
08:20we paid into this. Why hasn't there been an adjustment or a change that would reflect
08:29the needs that exist today? And that's what we hope to do with Security 2100.
08:35And to your point, I mean, Social Security really should transcend party lines. It affects
08:41Republican Americans, Democrat Americans. I am curious, what are those private conversations
08:46with your colleagues looking like, especially those ones across the aisle?
08:52Well, my favorite conversation was with Mark Meadows. You may recall Mark went on to be
08:57Trump's chief of staff, but he was one of the original founders of the Freedom Caucus.
09:02And he said very candidly, he said, listen, you know, these issues, especially as it relates to
09:08Social Security said, I understand what that means in rural North Carolina. That's a lifeline
09:15for all of our people. And that is so true for over 40% of all Americans on Social Security.
09:24It's the only benefit they have. So one of the things I've been doing and you might appreciate
09:31this, I don't know if you can see this card at all, but what I do is I make a card for
09:36every single member of Congress, House and Senate, and on it, it has their district.
09:44How many Social Security recipients they have, and then breaks it down to the Social Security
09:50recipients for pension, the spousal contribution, the dependent contribution, and the disability
09:59contribution. For example, more veterans rely on Social Security disability than they do on the VA.
10:06And then most importantly, we also add how much money comes into your local congressional district
10:17on a monthly basis. There's no better economic development plan. There's no greater way to close
10:25this gap when we have both a global pandemic and global inflation than to make sure that the very
10:33people in your district that need it the most are going to be able to get an increase to help
10:39them survive. And where do they spend that money? Right back in the communities they live in. They
10:45spend it at the local grocery store, at the pharmacy where they pump gas, they pay their rent
10:51to mortgages. The money comes back locally. Nobody's going to get wealthy on Social Security
10:57payments. On average, a Social Security payment for a male is $18,000. For a female is $14,000.
11:06And as we indicated earlier, for 5 million are getting below $12,000 for their Social Security
11:15payment to live on for a year. Things have changed a lot since 1971, but what needs to change most of
11:23all is for the American people to be outraged and say, hey, Congress, how about a vote? If you got
11:29a better idea than Social Security 2100, by all means, put it on the floor. But to say that we
11:36need to study this, the American people, American economists, they, everybody understands Social
11:44Security. There's nothing to study about it. Either you are going to cut benefits or increase
11:52revenues so that you can enhance the program. There's a lot that we could do with efficiencies,
11:58etc. So far, the other side has said what they intend to do is cut Social Security by 21 percent
12:05across the board. As you said, Social Security is a lifeline for many older Americans. So what
12:13do you think is the biggest threat facing the program? I think the biggest threat facing the
12:19program is congressional inaction. The American people completely understand and all demonstrate
12:27that Republicans, Independents, and Democrats all believe, even polls that say, if you personally
12:34had to pay more, would you do so? And they say, yes. Why? Because it's a guarantee. You know, we used to
12:41have to go back to 1929 and cite the great crash, but now you only have to go back to 2008, 2009,
12:50when people saw their 401k become a 101k and experienced losses that they hadn't before.
13:01And during that same time, Social Security never missed a payment, not a disability payment,
13:07not a spousal, not a dependent, or a pension payment was missed by the 70 million people
13:15that get Social Security. Do you think people in their 20s, people in their 30s, when they reach
13:22a retirement age, are they going to see Social Security? That is a, that's a conversation
13:28amongst younger people. It is. And the only reason they won't is if Congress doesn't act.
13:34And you hit the nail on the head with the hammer. That's what a lot of people believe long term
13:39on the other side, that the way ultimately to beat Social Security is to make sure and constantly say,
13:48oh, we, we support Social Security, but then undermine it and cut it so that future generations
13:55will not believe that it's there. While at the same time saying, hey, there's a better way for
14:01you to utilize your money. And that's always been the philosophical disagreement that you can make
14:08more money in the private sector. There's no denying that at different points and different
14:14times and depending upon success, you can make more money, but you can also lose money. I went
14:22to the Aetna School of Insurance and they taught us very well about the three legs on the economics
14:30stool, your personal finance and your assets, your pension, and what you put in savings.
14:39And the third leg, Social Security. And the only one that's never missed a payment. And the only
14:45one that's a guarantee is Social Security, which is why Americans across the board,
14:51Independents, Republicans, and Democrats overwhelmingly support the program.
14:57I do want to get your reaction to some recent commentary from former President Donald Trump.
15:02He said this on the campaign trail, quote, if the millions of Biden migrants are allowed to stay
15:08as Joe Biden intends, they will cost taxpayers trillions of dollars and Medicare and Social
15:13Security will buckle and they will collapse. What are your thoughts on this type of dialogue?
15:19Well, first of all, we need immigration reform, which comprehensive immigration reform,
15:27which has been before the Congress. And again, like Social Security or like again,
15:32aid to the Ukraine, this simply hasn't been taken up. But having said that, as you know,
15:37we're a nation of immigrants. And by the way, those immigrants who come here before they can
15:44even remotely collect Social Security, they have to be citizens, but they pay into the system
15:52all the time that they're here. So right now they are actually an asset to the system
16:00of Social Security and Medicare, not detracting from it. And President Trump also has said,
16:06you know, he likes to have it both ways. Quite often he said that he's very much in favor of
16:11Social Security, but then says that Social Security, you know, has the age has to be
16:17raised and make no mistake about it. And don't take my word for it. You know, call on Social
16:24Security Works or the National Committee to Preserve and Protect Social Security,
16:29the Alliance for Retired Seniors, everyone, more than 350 groups have come out and supported
16:35Social Security 2100 and also have warned against raising the age as a way to fix this problem.
16:45What that simply means is you're cutting benefits. You don't think raising the age is a fix here,
16:53but you do think Social Security 2100 is. Can you dive a little deeper in there? Talk about what's
16:59in the bill specifically? Well, specifically, let's start with a 2% across the board increase
17:05for all recipients. Secondly, making sure that no one can work all their lives, contribute into the
17:14program and get a below poverty level check from their government, which is why the new floor for
17:22Social Security will be 125% of whatever the poverty level is determined by the government.
17:30So no one is going to get below poverty level checks. We also find that a number of people
17:37who continue to work out of necessity found themselves in a situation where their Social
17:42Security was being taxed. They've already paid taxes on that. That's double taxation.
17:49We repeal that and change that so that 23 million Americans will get a tax break because they won't
17:57be paying on that Social Security tax that they currently are under the law. We repeal
18:04Weapon GPO, again, another program that was instituted during the 1983 so-called
18:13reforms, and that impacts not only teachers, but municipal employees, including firefighters and
18:19police and other municipal workers, etc., who have paid into the system or husbands have paid into
18:28the system or wives and they're not able, under the way the law is currently written, to receive
18:35the Social Security benefits that they've paid into the system. So we're out to repeal that.
18:44There's a number of bills to do that, but again, our bill pays for that, citing that you don't
18:51want to damage the trust fund. We want to make the trust fund continually solvent, and so it has
18:59the ability to provide all these benefits and solvency well into the future. Democrats have
19:08supported this bill. Also, really, the waiting period for disability and a number of other specific
19:18areas as it relates to making sure, in the case of where both parents have been deceased or
19:25separated, where a grandparent has to have custody of raising children during this time, we enhance
19:30those benefits, have children be able to stay on the program longer, especially those that find
19:37themselves going on to college afterwards, etc. This, we found very constructive, and most of
19:44these we've gotten, and we've incorporated every Republican suggestion that they've given us,
19:50including one by my good friend Vern Buchanan from Florida, who said, you know, we ought to receive
19:55a Social Security audit. Everybody ought to receive a month, excuse me, annually, a statement that
20:01reviews how much money you have in Social Security and what that means, so that they can compare it
20:09side by each. We're totally supportive of that. We agree. I said, that's why Republicans have got to
20:15stop cutting the Social Security Administration. How about this one, Brittany? How many people do
20:20you think realize that the Social Security Administration operates now, or now, mind you,
20:26it serves 70 million people currently, and it's operating administrative budget. What do you think
20:33that is? I think you're going to tell me, so let it rip. Under 1%. Find another government agency
20:43where they're operating under 1%. Everybody should be looking and studying and saying, hey,
20:49how is it that they've been able to be so effective? How is it that they're able to keep
20:53the cost down? The answer, I think, will become pretty intuitive when you don't have a middle
20:59person, where there's no commissions that are involved, etc., and the private sector,
21:05again, I come from an insurance capital of the world in Hartford, Connecticut.
21:09They get this and understand it as well. You know, they, you know, that is, you're providing
21:15from the bottom up a solid floor and foundation, which is why at the Aetna, they always argued
21:22there were three legs on the stool. So, let's make that leg solid and secure, but let's also
21:30allow people, as Vernon Buchanan said, to say, all right, here's what I'm getting for Social
21:34Security. Oh, what if I were able to do this with some of my other, you know, invest and show
21:39where else you could get your money. There's no, this isn't a contest between one or the other,
21:45but if there's, if you can only have one, you want the guarantee, but you want to know that
21:53there's options out there to get to, and if you can take your payroll deduction and put some money
21:59aside in another plan, that's only going to enhance your retirement or enhance your future
22:05and your families. If you're incorporating those Republican suggestions in this Act,
22:11have you gotten any Republican support for the Social Security 2100 Act publicly?
22:17Verbally, yes, but not publicly. Do you think that's going to happen?
22:23I do. Well, I think in the case of a number, a bill of this nature, where there has been
22:29longstanding philosophical differences, where lines have been drawn long ago,
22:36they're hard barriers to knock down, but in a vote on a bill, looking, everyone looking at the
22:43card that I gave them, they're going to vote their interest and the interest of their constituents
22:48and their district. This is, you know, probably the best economic development plan that we could
22:55do, and when members look at, you know, on average, most districts get 200 million a month coming into
23:03their district for their constituents, and again, it's not rocket science. Where do they spend that
23:10money? They're not buying stock options with it, I can tell you that. So then what's next for the
23:16legislation? Because you've reintroduced it last year, there is Democratic support, so what's the
23:22lifeline look here? Well, let us hope that we applaud the President and his initiatives,
23:32but, you know, the President can't make Mike Johnson bring the bill to the floor.
23:40Only the Republicans can do that, and if they won't, well, we hope we'll be in a position to
23:48do that after November. I think this is going to be a major campaign issue for the reasons I cited
23:55before, 10,000 baby boomers a day, so that's 3,650,000 yearly are going to be eligible and
24:08wondering why Congress hasn't acted as only Congress can. So when your constituents say
24:17why hasn't Congress acted, what's your response? I said it's a shame, and it hasn't acted because
24:26there hasn't been the will to vote, and some would even say, too, hey, the Democrats have control,
24:35you know. Well, I've been in Congress 24 years, 25 years actually now, but only
24:42four of those years did we have the House, the Senate, and a Democratic
24:49President, and that was the closest we came, but there were other things like the Affordable Care
24:55Act, etc., that ended up taking precedent at that point, but I believe because the President
25:04has stated now in two successive State of the Union messages and in his campaign that this is
25:10top on the agenda list. Hakeem Jeffries, whom we hope will be Speaker of the House, has also
25:16indicated that it's top on his list as well, so we feel very confident that there will be a vote
25:24under Democratic control. Put that aside, though. There should be a vote tomorrow, whether Democrats
25:30or Republicans or Independents, whoever controls it, look at the need that exists out there.
25:37Again, no one's getting wealthy off of Social Security. These aren't windfall profits for
25:43anyone. This is mere subsistence, and when there's any discussion that's talked about the wealth gap,
25:49you have to look no farther than the most successful insurance program in the nation's
25:57history, run with less than 1% administrative cost, number one. Number two, providing critical
26:06benefits to more than 70 million people and making sure that those benefits are going right back to
26:14the communities and the people that need them the most, serving as an economic plus for every
26:22one of the 435 congressional districts in all the 50 states.
26:28So, as you've noted from the very beginning of this conversation,
26:32there hasn't been substantive action on this in over half a century, so will it take precedent,
26:39do you believe, only if Democrats control the White House, Congress, and Senate?
26:44One would hope that that's not the case, that no matter who is there, they're going to recognize
26:51that here are the facts, here is the overwhelming data, and I think the more like institutions and
26:58the more like opinion leaders like Forbes and yourself make this clear, just on the basis of
27:04the facts alone, that people would say, hey, you know what, we really need to do this, and you know
27:11we really need to do this, and you know what, when we look at the polling data,
27:15the public is accepting of this because they understand what this means, and if we're going
27:21to help solve this issue of wealth disparity, and there's no denying it, that it actually,
27:27just imagine, 40% of all retirees, the only benefit they have is Social Security, and on
27:38average that's $18,000 a male, $14,000 per female, so if that isn't enough to shake people up
27:47and have them do the right thing, I don't know what is. Do I think if Democrats are in control
27:53of the presidency, the Senate, and the House? Absolutely, because they know this is long
27:59overdue. Congressman John Larson, I really appreciate the conversation today,
28:04thank you so much for joining me, you're welcome back anytime. Brittany, thank you, look forward to it.