Interior Secretary Deb Haaland Testifies Before The House Appropriations Committee

6 months ago

Interior Secretary Deb Haaland testifies before the House Appropriations Committee.

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Transcript

00:00:00Thank you for joining us today to discuss the President's fiscal year 2025 budget request for the Department of Interior.

00:00:07Nearly two-thirds of the state of Idaho consists of federal land, which means that land management decisions made by federal agencies like yours

00:00:14have a profound and direct impact on our state's economy and Idahoans who live, work, and recreate on or near federal lands.

00:00:20Indeed, most Idahoans interact with the department and its bureaus daily.

00:00:26The department and this subcommittee also have the important responsibility of fulfilling our treaty and trust obligations to tribes.

00:00:35Addressing the greatest tribal needs, including education, law enforcement, and

00:00:39tribal land management issues continue to be a top priority of this subcommittee under both Republican and Democratic chairs.

00:00:46And I'm sure newly elected Chairman Cole shares this sentiment.

00:00:50I've talked to him about it.

00:00:52I appreciate your active involvement working with us and our American Indian and

00:00:57Alaska Native brothers and sisters to address these issues in the FY 2025 budget.

00:01:03In terms of discretionary resources, the President's request for

00:01:07fiscal year 25 asks for over 16 billion for the Department of Interior,

00:01:12an increase of 1.6 billion or 11% above the FY 2024 enacted level.

00:01:19Notably, the budget proposes shifting more than 830 million from base discretionary to emergency funding for wildfire activities.

00:01:28As I said yesterday to the Chief of the Forest Service, I have serious concerns about repeating the budgetary gimmicks that were just rectified by Congress in the 2024 bill.

00:01:38So while I may not agree with all the priorities in this budget proposal or

00:01:42the recent rulemaking put out by the department,

00:01:46I appreciate that we can have a productive conversation about the land management issues we are facing and

00:01:51the tools you need to manage our lands effectively and efficiently.

00:01:55My colleagues and I hope to cover a lot of ground with you today.

00:01:58Now I'd like to yield to my ranking member, Ms. Pingree, for her opening statement.

00:02:02Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you so much, Secretary Holland,

00:02:07for being with us today to discuss the fiscal year 2025 budget request for the Department of Interior.

00:02:13I continue to be so pleased that you bring your perspective to this position as the Secretary, and just always happy to work with you.

00:02:20Your budget continues to build on this administration's commitment to addressing climate crisis.

00:02:25It strengthens the federal government's response to wildland fire, and it ensures that we are upholding our treaty and trust obligations.

00:02:32As a steward of our federal lands, your agency faces significant climate-related challenges from drought, wildfire, floods, and invasive species.

00:02:41And I'm pleased to see continued investments to advance science and enhance conservation efforts.

00:02:46The budget also seeks to meet our responsibilities and legal obligations to protect Indian trust assets and

00:02:52resources, and to provide direct services such as education, public safety, and justice.

00:02:58A total increase of 651 million is proposed for Indian affairs with targeted investments to address missing and

00:03:04murdered indigenous people, continue the Secretary's boarding school initiative, and

00:03:09its comprehensive review of federal boarding school policies, and to support native language revitalization.

00:03:15I believe these increases are appropriate and necessary.

00:03:18Secretary Holland, thank you again for appearing before us this morning.

00:03:22I appreciate your testimony and your answers to our questions.

00:03:25I yield back, Mr. Chair.

00:03:26Thank you, Ranking Member Pingree.

00:03:28Secretary Holland, you may proceed with your opening statement.

00:03:30Your official submitted testimony will be included in the record.

00:03:34Yes, thank you.

00:03:35Chair Simpson, Ranking Member Pingree, and members of the subcommittee,

00:03:38thank you for the opportunity to testify in support of Interior's fiscal year 2025 budget request.

00:03:45I appreciate all of the support the subcommittee and your staff have consistently shown the Department of the Interior.

00:03:51We appreciate that.

00:03:53I have especially enjoyed visiting so many of your home districts.

00:03:56Every trip informs my understanding of the issues important to the American people,

00:04:01the impact of the work that we do, and how our budget can support those interests.

00:04:07The 2025 budget totals $18 billion in current authority.

00:04:11Of that amount, $16.4 billion is within the jurisdiction of the Interior Appropriations Subcommittee.

00:04:18First, I want to highlight several important proposals.

00:04:21Permanent pay legislation and reforms for our wildland fire workforce,

00:04:25mandatory funding for future Indian water rights settlements, and

00:04:29reclassifying contract support costs in leasing payments to tribes from discretionary

00:04:35to mandatory funding starting in 2026.

00:04:38This administration has made a steadfast commitment to strengthen government to government relationships with tribal nations.

00:04:44We're doing so thanks to significant investments from Congress,

00:04:48which are helping address the deficiencies that decades of underfunding have created.

00:04:53I'm grateful to the members of the subcommittee for working on a bipartisan basis to champion tribal priorities.

00:04:59With a total request of $4.6 billion for Indian affairs programs,

00:05:04this budget will address complex and difficult challenges such as the missing and murdered indigenous peoples crisis,

00:05:10the legacy and continuing impacts of federal Indian boarding school policies and native language revitalization.

00:05:17Public safety continues to be a top priority for tribal leaders across the country.

00:05:22The budget includes $651 million to support critical public safety needs across all of Indian country.

00:05:30We also request $1.5 billion for Indian education programs with strong investments in the day to day operations of schools.

00:05:38This funding is critical as we prepare the next generation of indigenous Americans to lead their communities.

00:05:45Turning to wildland fire, we continue to see the devastating impacts they are having across the country.

00:05:52I want to thank the subcommittee for your bipartisan support for extending supplemental fire pay for another year.

00:05:59The 2025 budget invests in reforms including $75 million to support permanent pay increases for federal and tribal wildland firefighters.

00:06:09Stewardship of our natural resources is a core mission for us.

00:06:13Interior manages about 20% of America's lands and is responsible for

00:06:17protection and recovery of more than 2,300 endangered and threatened species.

00:06:23The request includes $2.8 billion in annual funding for conservation efforts

00:06:28that support key initiatives such as wildlife quarters and implementing the national seed strategy.

00:06:35I am proud of the proposal of $8 million for a mandatory funded tribal land acquisition program.

00:06:41A top priority for tribes as part of our implementation of the land and water conservation fund program.

00:06:47This proposal honors the role tribes play as stewards of the land and

00:06:51will help ensure they have resources to ensure healthy lands for future generations.

00:06:56The 2025 budget invests $189 million to continue the progress we have made in deploying clean energy,

00:07:03building a resilient domestic based supply chain, and creating thousands of good paying jobs.

00:07:09The demand for renewable energy has never been greater and interior is leading the way to a clean energy future.

00:07:16Regarding infrastructure, our request includes $2.7 billion to fund operations and

00:07:21maintenance for our more than 130,000 buildings and structures and 65,000 miles of public roads.

00:07:28In addition, there is $1.6 billion in mandatory funding available in 2025

00:07:33through the Great American Outdoors Act Legacy Restoration Fund.

00:07:38We're currently executing 326 GOA funded projects with

00:07:4323 additional projects requested for 2025.

00:07:48We cannot address our major maintenance needs through annual appropriations alone.

00:07:53I look forward to working with Congress to reauthorize the GOA Legacy Restoration Fund.

00:07:58Overall, the President's budget request for interior invests in programs to strengthen our nation for all Americans.

00:08:04This great work would not be possible without the dedication of career public servants at interior.

00:08:10I look forward to our continued work together on these important issues.

00:08:13Thank you for your partnership and support for the important work of the department and its incredible employees.

00:08:19I'm pleased to answer any questions you may have.

00:08:23Thank you, Secretary.

00:08:24Let me start off.

00:08:26This is something you knew was going to come up, I was going to have to comment on.

00:08:30The proposal to build a 400 turbine wind generating facility in Idaho's Magic Valley has been met with

00:08:36almost unanimous opposition from local residents.

00:08:40This would be the largest wind turbines on land in the United States.

00:08:45They are taller than the Washington Monument.

00:08:48They're taller than the Seattle Space Needle, 400 of them.

00:08:51I have yet to talk to one Magic Valley resident who supports it.

00:08:55As the voice of my constituents, I have been a very strong local opponent of the Lava Ridge Wind Project and

00:09:01have advocated for the Bureau of Land Management to listen to Idaho's concerns.

00:09:06To force the BLM to slow down and acknowledge the concerns of impacted communities,

00:09:10I included language in the 24 appropriation legislation stopping the project from moving forward until BLM

00:09:16consults with local elected officials and stakeholders on alternative actions

00:09:23to reduce the impact to wildlife, cultural resources, and other assets.

00:09:27Can you walk me through what the agency has done since the enactment of the 2024 bill to adhere to the requirements of the Idaho Wind Provision?

00:09:36What elected officials have stakeholders have you consulted with since March 9th?

00:09:41And what feedback and concerns have they shared with you?

00:09:44And how do you plan to incorporate those concerns before moving forward?

00:09:50Thank you for the question, Chairman, and appreciate also the conversation that we had yesterday on this issue.

00:09:57So roughly 26 government to government consultation meetings with tribes have happened.

00:10:02We've had at least 19 meetings with county commissioners from Lincoln, Jerome, and Minidoka counties.

00:10:0814 briefings from members of Congress or their staff.

00:10:11Six meetings with local organizations.

00:10:14Four meetings with grazing permittees and other members of the agricultural community.

00:10:18Six public meetings on the draft environmental impact statement.

00:10:22Numerous engagements with Japanese American community and many more.

00:10:27We appreciate your concern and your communication with us.

00:10:32And we're working to meet the direction to conduct additional consultations with local elected officials and stakeholders.

00:10:41This issue is not completed yet.

00:10:44It is ongoing.

00:10:46There is still more conversations and work to be had.

00:10:52And we'll obviously stay in touch with you as it moves forward.

00:10:56I appreciate that and I appreciate the consultation with the local community.

00:11:05This goes without saying, but I expect BLM to listen to the concerns of Idahoans directly affected by the proposed

00:11:11Laveridge Wind Project and give those concerns considerable weight in the development of the final EIS.

00:11:16Local officials, affected farmers, tribes, and Japanese American community have raised serious concerns and their voices need to be heard.

00:11:22I support an all of the above approach to energy development, but

00:11:27this administration cannot continue to unilaterally ram through renewable energy projects with no local support and

00:11:33with no forethought for their impact on these important land uses.

00:11:39The Laveridge Wind Project is out of touch with Idahoans and I remain committed to taking significant actions to put the people of Idaho first.

00:11:46So thank you for that.

00:11:49Sage Grass Management Plan.

00:11:51Since 2015, I've included language in the annual interior spending bills prohibiting

00:11:56the greater sage-grouse from being listed under the Endangered Species Act.

00:12:00And Congress has directed BLM to work collaboratively with states,

00:12:05private landowners, and other stakeholders to conserve sage-grouse habitat.

00:12:09In 2015, Idaho adopted the collaboratively developed Idaho Sage-Grouse Management Plan as the state's official policy for sage-grouse management.

00:12:19The original plan has been updated to provide a balanced approach for the species and the people of Idaho.

00:12:26Since 2015, the state of Idaho has spent over $5 million to increase data on sage-grouse populations and

00:12:32enhance over 76,000 acres of sage-grouse habitat.

00:12:36These efforts aren't unique to Idaho.

00:12:38Other states have worked just as tirelessly and dedicated significant state resources to avoid the need for federal rule making.

00:12:45Despite these efforts, on March 15th, 2024,

00:12:48the department published proposals regarding greater sage-grouse habitat.

00:12:53Threat of an ESA listing and overly restrictive federal land use plans

00:12:58undermines the collaborative work being done to manage sage-grouse habitats at

00:13:03the local level by the individuals who work, live, and recreate on Idaho's land.

00:13:09More so, the proposals will have drastic effects on grazing permittees, resource development,

00:13:14timber harvesters, recreators whose livelihoods depend on responsible management of our federal lands.

00:13:27Question one, let me tell you how we got here, because people think that I don't care about sage-grouse and

00:13:33maintaining the fact that I don't want them to go to extinct or anything else.

00:13:40When this became an issue, former Secretary Salazar came to me and

00:13:45said, what we need to do is have the states develop management plans.

00:13:51And so all of the states, the 11 western states, put together these collaborative efforts that included

00:13:58federal land management agencies, local ranchers, recreationists, others, stakeholders.

00:14:04And they came up with what they believed to be good state management plans that they could live with.

00:14:09And Idaho's plan was actually rated as co-equal with the BLM's plan.

00:14:17And we all know that you're not going to save sage-grouse habitat if you don't get private land owners involved.

00:14:23Because a lot of the habitat is on private lands.

00:14:27And so they had an interest in this and they worked very hard with the state and the committee to accomplish that.

00:14:35And the reason I include language to not list them is that if all of a sudden you listed them,

00:14:42those people that participated in developing a sage-grouse management plan are going to say, I'm done, I'm out of here.

00:14:49And that's going to hurt trying to save sage-grouse habitat and stuff.

00:14:54So that's my concern with listing, and that's why I put the language in there that I have had.

00:14:59Is the department's position that a one-size-fits-all approach to conservation outweighs unique plans that consider and

00:15:06incorporate the specific threats to that locality, and can you explain the department's process

00:15:11leading to the necessity for this proposal, and what is the timing and plan for this proposal?

00:15:18Thank you very much, Chairman.

00:15:20And it's been my experience with the department that we value very much

00:15:26local input, state input, we feel those folks know better.

00:15:32They live on the land and they know things that we don't know.

00:15:36So we are transparent and very collaborative when it comes to that.

00:15:40With respect to the plan itself, we published a draft EIS for the greater sage-grouse plan in March.

00:15:47The comment period ends this June, June 13th.

00:15:51We aim to complete a revised plan amendments by the end of this year, 2024.

00:15:57We're working with partners, with BLM identified specific greater sage-grouse

00:16:02plan decisions to consider amending to incorporate new science.

00:16:07All other existing decisions remain in the plans unchanged.

00:16:10And DOI remains committed to reversing the downward trend in greater sage-grouse populations on BLM managed lands.

00:16:18Let me suggest that when this comes out,

00:16:23you need to incorporate not just the comments and

00:16:28stuff and listen to the comments from people, but get together a working group and say, okay,

00:16:33how are we going to implement that if that's the way we're moving forward on this, and what's the impacts going to be?

00:16:38And what are the impacts on onshore energy production and mineral development?

00:16:43As you know, one of the most critical problems we're facing in this country right now

00:16:49is the supply chain for critical minerals that we get from our adversaries, frankly.

00:16:54And we have those resources in this country.

00:16:59Most of them are on public lands, though.

00:17:02But trying to get access to those resources is sometimes very, very difficult.

00:17:07All of those things need to be taken into consideration if you're going to change the sage-grouse plan.

00:17:12As I said, my biggest concern is that it involves local people because

00:17:16you're not going to save sage-grouse habitat if you don't have private land owners involved in it.

00:17:21Thank you.

00:17:21Okay, Ms. Pingree?

00:17:26Thanks, Mr. Chair.

00:17:28I brought this up in my opening remarks, but I want to just talk a little bit about tribal climate resilience funding.

00:17:34I guess we know tribal climate resilience needs are as diverse as climate impacts seem to affect each tribe differently.

00:17:42I know a little bit about the struggles of the Passamaquoddy Indian tribe in Maine who are confronting climate related environmental threats such as sea level rise,

00:17:50which imperils important cultural sites, tribal member housing,

00:17:55including an elderly housing facility as well as wastewater treatment plant.

00:17:59The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law Inflation Reduction Act, an annual tribal climate resilience appropriated fund,

00:18:05provide about $120 million a year for tribal climate adaptation and resilience projects.

00:18:11So can you tell us sort of the nationwide need for these funds, specifically in the lower 48, and how many tribes are applying right now?

00:18:18Thank you very much for the question, and yes,

00:18:23that's definitely an issue, and we are paying attention to it.

00:18:29So, thank you.

00:18:30We've had, of course, a very strong response from Indian country.

00:18:34We've received 166 proposals from tribes totaling over $150 million for

00:18:40fiscal year 2023 funded solicitation, and recently announced

00:18:44the $120 million in awards for 146 projects for 102 tribes and nine tribal organizations.

00:18:53And it's historically high funding with the help of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the Inflation Reduction Act.

00:19:01Are you working with some of the other federal agencies to try to leverage more funds or see how we can enhance the amount of money available?

00:19:09Pretty much everything we do with respect to this issue and tribes is an all of government approach.

00:19:14That's the direction from President Biden.

00:19:17So yes, we are absolutely working to make sure that we're doing this in a concerted effort.

00:19:25Do you have an estimate of the universe of need for funds to address the impacts of climate change on tribes?

00:19:33And how are you guys strategizing about funding once the infrastructure law and

00:19:40the inflation reduction act funding runs out, which changed things a lot?

00:19:45Yes, of course, and as time goes on,

00:19:48things seemingly get somewhat worse with sea level rise and the like.

00:19:54But we're going to keep an eye on it and work to fill the need as we see fit.

00:20:01But certainly that is a priority for us, and it's a priority for tribes.

00:20:05One of the things that I feel very confident about is that we are

00:20:10making sure that tribes are leading their efforts themselves.

00:20:15We don't want to tell them what to do, but they will tell us what to do.

00:20:19And with respect to the other federal agencies, it's FEMA and CEQ who will help us identify other resources.

00:20:27The 2025 budget also includes $49 million with $6 million increase for tribal adaptation and relocation planning grants.

00:20:36Great, well, thank you for that.

00:20:38I know we're all anxious to work with you going forward because it seems like,

00:20:43just what I've ascertained from one tribe in my state, that the need is significant.

00:20:48And as I said, we weren't even talking about Alaska when we talk about that, and that's just another big pool.

00:20:54Can I ask one more?

00:20:55Yeah.

00:20:57So just one more other question right now.

00:21:00Last week Acadia National Park announced that the park will be receiving $950,000 in funding from the Inflation Reduction Act to create a model for

00:21:06addressing climate change vulnerabilities of coastal archaeological sites,

00:21:12collections, landscapes, and ethnographic resources, something we have a lot of in Maine, including in my own community.

00:21:20Acadia will be using the two-eyed seeing model to meaningfully integrate indigenous knowledge with Western science.

00:21:26The project will build on 15 years of consultation at Acadia National Park,

00:21:31St. Croix International, Island International Historic Site, and Roosevelt Campobello International Park with the Wabanaki tribes.

00:21:39This is just one example of the amazing work that the inflation reduction funding will support to prepare parks across the country to be resilient to climate change.

00:21:47The National Park Service just announced projects to be funded by the full $195 million.

00:21:52So could you just tell me, I know a little bit about what's going on in my own state, but I'd like to know what other types of work are going on.

00:22:00And how the funding will support the work across the park system.

00:22:04Thank you so much.

00:22:08We have been extremely proud of the work we've been able to do with tribes.

00:22:13I appreciate you mentioning indigenous knowledge.

00:22:15We believe very strongly that that is science that we all need to pay attention to, and it is really helping us to steward these lands.

00:22:23Our tribal co-stewardship agreements across the country, we've signed probably 200 of those,

00:22:29and there's probably 60 more that we're working on.

00:22:35To ensure that we're not missing anything, because tribes have the experience.

00:22:42More, and as you know, yes, more than one-third of coastal parks are at significant risk from sea level rise,

00:22:49coastal erosion, and storm surge that's happening on all of our coasts.

00:22:54The NPS budget includes $4 million for additional climate vulnerability studies,

00:22:59and 2.5 million for climate-related natural resource projects at the parks.

00:23:04Both of those investments could help the National Park Service make progress in addressing climate resiliency.

00:23:11We'll keep our eyes on that, and continue to work as needed,

00:23:16and certainly bring tribes into the fold when it comes to how we steward those lands.

00:23:22All right, thank you so much for that work.

00:23:24I'll yield back, Mr. Chair.

00:23:37Yeah, coming in loud and clear.

00:23:41Thank you, Madam Secretary.

00:23:42I appreciate that you're with us here today.

00:23:46Under your watch, on September 16th, 2022,

00:23:52the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service issued a rule that included a ban on traditional ammunition,

00:23:59and later took additional steps to further ban traditional ammunition.

00:24:03What scientific evidence was used to support the 2022 final rule

00:24:10to put a ban on traditional ammunition and subsequent actions?

00:24:16Thank you very much, Congressman, for the question.

00:24:19And so I can start out by saying that the Fish and Wildlife Service is taking a measured approach to evaluate the use of lead on refuge areas.

00:24:29Committed in 2022-23, Hunt Fish rule to consider the future of lead use

00:24:34based on the large number of public comments received on the issue.

00:24:39We are, of course, it's our job to steward the Fish and

00:24:46Wildlife Service, to steward our national wildlife refuges, and

00:24:51we are just making sure that we're doing that in a responsible way.

00:24:56So no scientific research is what I think I heard your answer to be.

00:25:01We are, the Fish and Wildlife Service is, I mean, yes,

00:25:06we have scientists all over the place studying these things, Congressman, and I believe-

00:25:13So is there a specific report that you can point this committee to that caused you to take that action?

00:25:18I would be very happy to get back with the Fish and Wildlife Service and

00:25:24make sure that they can give you the data that they used in evaluating this issue.

00:25:28I would be very interested to hear that from an organization that is all about science and studies.

00:25:36So can we count on your word to provide that data to this committee?

00:25:41We'll be happy to get in touch with your staff as soon as this hearing is over, sir.

00:25:45Thank you.

00:25:47All right, I appreciate it.

00:25:50Next question, Secretary Holland.

00:25:53Just yes or no, do you feel that it's prudent to provide funding to localities that intentionally violate federal law?

00:26:02I'm not quite, I don't understand what the question is.

00:26:06Real simple.

00:26:07Should we provide funding to entities or

00:26:11localities that intentionally violate federal law?

00:26:16Could you be more specific, sir?

00:26:18I don't know.

00:26:19Do you feel like it's prudent to provide funding to localities that intentionally violate federal law, any federal law?

00:26:31I couldn't answer that question unless I knew the specific issue.

00:26:34I mean, there's a whole host of federal laws.

00:26:36We do not expect local.

00:26:37But of course, we follow the law, Congressman.

00:26:40The Department of the Interior follows the law in everything we do.

00:26:46So would you expect that localities would also follow federal law?

00:26:54I expect every American to follow the law.

00:26:57All right, thank you for that.

00:26:58So with that, do you feel the Department of Interior should continue to provide

00:27:04grant funds to tribes that legalize marijuana against federal law?

00:27:10I suppose it depends, Congressman, on what the grant is used for.

00:27:15If it's a grant to help them combat sea level rise and move their communities, that's one issue.

00:27:24My question was in regards to legalizing marijuana on tribal lands.

00:27:31Do you think that we should continue to fund tribal

00:27:37entities that break federal law by legalizing marijuana?

00:27:41I would imagine if tribes are requesting funds and

00:27:46they fill out the applicable paperwork and

00:27:52grant and make their grant proposals that they will be reviewed and decided upon.

00:28:00So what other federal laws would you be in support of local entities breaking?

00:28:08Congressman, I'm not in support of any one breaking any laws.

00:28:13Okay, and so you would not, I think by virtue of that answer,

00:28:17you would not condone continuing to fund

00:28:24local entities that break federal law.

00:28:27And I would also point, Congressman, that the Justice Department

00:28:33is the department to handle any issues of law breaking and

00:28:38if we're happy to move to point in that direction if you'd like us to.

00:28:44I'd just like to interject and let you know my opinion on the topic.

00:28:50There have been several studies from the National Institute on Drug Abuse that have linked heavy marijuana use to lower income,

00:28:58severe welfare dependence, unemployment, criminal behavior, and lower life satisfaction.

00:29:05As our nation continues to face an unprecedented drug crisis and mental health crisis,

00:29:11I think it's more imperative than ever that federal agencies commit to upholding federal law and

00:29:18protecting our communities against the hazards that are caused by marijuana production and sale.

00:29:28Next question, I don't know if I'm on a clock or not, Mr. Chair.

00:29:34The President's budget includes almost $32 million in cuts to

00:29:39the payment in lieu of taxes funding and

00:29:43request to transfer those funds from general provisions,

00:29:48which would provide full funding to an appropriations account.

00:29:51Can you explain why?

00:29:54Thank you, yes, we will, if you'd give us just one second, please.

00:30:05So I beg your pardon, Congressman, would you just repeat the question?

00:30:10Yeah, certainly, I'd be happy to.

00:30:11The President's budget includes almost $32 million in cuts to PILT funding and

00:30:17request to transfer PILT from general provisions which would provide full funding

00:30:23to an appropriations account, and I was just curious to know why is that?

00:30:30So what I can say is that we remain committed to PILT while balancing the needs in a constrained budget environment.

00:30:39The budget first funds ongoing operations and services.

00:30:43Interior provides directly to the public, and

00:30:46the budget takes reductions in several grant and payment programs, including PILT.

00:30:51The 2025 request will likely be short of the final formula-driven authorized level.

00:30:57It isn't unusual or unprecedented for the request or even CBO scoring to fall short of the final payment.

00:31:03So we'll continue to do the best that we possibly can.

00:31:07Thank you, Madam Secretary, I appreciate that.

00:31:10I'd just also like to interject that the Department of Interior's constant fluctuation in funding accounts and

00:31:17levels means that counties with a large federal acreage, like most of those in my district in Western North Carolina,

00:31:24are continually facing uncertainty and stuck in ongoing funding battles.

00:31:29I'm particularly interested in re-evaluating the complex PILT funding formula and

00:31:36providing greater certainty to communities to better eliminate the negative fiscal impacts that federally owned land creates.

00:31:45Would you commit to working with me on this as we look forward to the 2025 appropriations?

00:31:53We are happy, of course, to be in touch with you, Congressman, if you would like us to.

00:32:03And so yes, we'll do our best.

00:32:05Thank you very much.

00:32:05I do have a couple of other questions, but maybe we'll get another round, thanks.

00:32:10Thank you, and I will tell you that, as is often said, the President, whether it's Republican or

00:32:16Democrat, proposes, Congress disposes, we will not end up with a budget that reduces funding for PILT.

00:32:24He has 83% federal land in his district, I have 66% in mine, I don't see the support for that.

00:32:30But there's also a habit that I've noticed with, again, Republican governors,

00:32:36Democratic governors or presidents, either one, is that they sometimes

00:32:41reduce the funding for things in their budget proposal that they know are important to Congress,

00:32:45because they know we're not going to allow that to happen, so then they can put resources into something else.

00:32:50So that's a game that's always played.

00:32:51Anyway, Mr. Kilmer.

00:32:55Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Madam Secretary, for being here.

00:32:59And I appreciate the ranking member mentioning the impact of climate change on tribes.

00:33:08The President's budget includes a little south of 49 million for

00:33:13the Tribal Climate Resilience Program, including an increase of 4 million for Climate Relocation Grants.

00:33:18That really matters in my neck of the woods, Madam Secretary, you came and visited my district.

00:33:25If any of the members of the committee want to Google Tohola,

00:33:27which is the lower village of the Quinault Indian Nation, and flooding,

00:33:31you will actually see photographs of people canoeing through their village, through the streets of their village.

00:33:37I sat there with the former president of the Quinault Indian Nation.

00:33:41And she said, when I was a kid, the ocean was a football field's length away, and she said, now it's our front porch.

00:33:47And every time there's a severe storm, there's seawall breaches, and they just fill up like a bowl.

00:33:52And unfortunately, that's the case for a whole bunch of the tribes in my neck of the woods that are trying to move to higher ground.

00:33:58And some of this costs money for the Quinault relocation project alone.

00:34:01We're talking a $400 million project to move a village out of harm's way.

00:34:06But funding isn't the only challenge.

00:34:07We also have this sort of complex jumble of potential resources and

00:34:14programs across the federal government, each with its own set of rules and regulatory strings and

00:34:20cost shares and deadlines and other administrative processes that kind of make it difficult and

00:34:25sometimes impossible for tribes to plan and to execute a project.

00:34:29I really appreciate the chairman.

00:34:32He has partnered with me on a bill called the Terra Act that would establish an interagency framework under your department,

00:34:39Madam Secretary, for just coordinating the prevention and mitigation and relocation efforts of tribes.

00:34:44And the idea under this bill would be to work directly with Department of Interior to develop a single comprehensive plan

00:34:50that would integrate and streamline some of these federal resources and programs across the federal government.

00:34:55And I think that really matters, because time is of the essence.

00:34:59And we're spending, these conflicting rules and

00:35:03deadlines and things like that are not helpful to the folks who just need some help.

00:35:07I would love to just get your thoughts on how that streamlined authority that exists under the proposal that we've introduced could help your agency and

00:35:15could help tribes actually develop and execute a comprehensive and coordinated plan for climate driven relocation.

00:35:22And I want to just invite if there are other resources or approaches that you're pursuing toward that end.

00:35:30Thank you so much for the question.

00:35:32And yes, we talked about this the other day.

00:35:35In fact, it sounds like a very exciting idea.

00:35:38And of course, if we can coordinate and streamline things, that's a win for tribes in this case.

00:35:44So we appreciate that as well as the community driven projects.

00:35:54You know, when we use the word relocation, it kind of,

00:35:58it's a little buzz word that gives me a little bad feeling inside.

00:36:03When we think about the other relocation for tribes from years past,

00:36:12these ideas for tribes to relocate come from within their communities.

00:36:18And so we want to be as supportive as we possibly can.

00:36:22Of course, please feel free to reach out to us.

00:36:26Your staff is welcome to call our staff, have a conversation about the bill to find out details.

00:36:31And we're more than happy to work with you as we move forward.

00:36:35I think when folks get together and talk about things,

00:36:38they bring ideas to the table that they didn't realize until they're there.

00:36:43So we'd love to have more conversations about it with you.

00:36:47Thank you. And I know my team's been in touch with yours and appreciate the guidance as we work to introduce that bill together.

00:36:53I know we've got a lot of folks with a lot of questions.

00:36:56I just want to mention, in closing, a bill that Senator Warren and I introduced last Congress that we plan to introduce this Congress.

00:37:03It's called the Honoring Promise to Native Nations Act.

00:37:06And it stems from the report from the US Commission on Civil Rights that lays out what has really been a persistent underfunding,

00:37:14a chronic underfunding for

00:37:19issues faced by Indian country on all sorts of topics.

00:37:25The federal government's failure to meet its trust and treaty obligations is significant,

00:37:31and we're going to be working to introduce that bill this Congress, and I'd just love to stay in touch with you and your team on that front.

00:37:37I know that's something that you worked on when you were a member of this body, and we're continuing to work on it.

00:37:42Yes, thank you so much for that.

00:37:44Yes, that report is heartbreaking and continues to be timely if people haven't read it.

00:37:53Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Chair, I yield back.

00:37:54Thank you.

00:37:55Amadeus, or Amity.

00:37:57Thank you, Mr. Chair.

00:38:02Madam Secretary, welcome back to your old neighborhood.

00:38:06I want to start with personnel, because it kind of,

00:38:12in my district, and I think other ones, we struggle with meeting mission for

00:38:17the Bureau of Land Management when we talk about filling up those district offices, those field offices.

00:38:23People there can't afford to take a job with BLM, because they can't afford to live in the communities where those offices are located.

00:38:30And so when we go and say, what the heck's going on with the permitting, with the range stuff, with the whatever?

00:38:36And it's like, they're doing the best they can, and I will say that none of them are going, we haven't got enough people.

00:38:42We'll check back with you in a few years.

00:38:43I know occasionally that happens over a counter top, but, and I want to say, you've got a great team in Nevada.

00:38:51They're transparent, and I value that in terms of when we're trying to solve problems.

00:38:58But as I look through this budget proposal, and you've got your folks here on either side, I look at what's going on there.

00:39:04And we've talked about this for a few years now, before you were here, and

00:39:09it's like, what are we doing so that we can fill those positions and

00:39:13that we can pay those people a wage which allows them to live in the communities in which those jobs exist?

00:39:20Because they are not being filled.

00:39:22And so when I circulate amongst my districts, district offices, and talk to the field office managers,

00:39:29it's like, well, not that the process to go through to get hired is crisp,

00:39:36it's a different topic, but it's like, nobody wants a job for what it pays.

00:39:41They're taking ones that, can you point me where in this budget proposal we're doing something about that?

00:39:48Because I don't see anything.

00:39:51I mean, we're doing a lot of stuff in there, but here's where we're going to try to throw a dart at the problem of filling empty positions.

00:39:58Because BLM personnel can't, and it's not the bottom GS stuff.

00:40:05I mean, when you talk about district managers and stuff, it's like, geez.

00:40:08I mean, it's getting tight, and that's not your fault.

00:40:12But I see the agency, over the last ten years, doing nothing.

00:40:17Please tell me how fully you know what I am, doing nothing to address that.

00:40:22There is no leadership message coming through the budget process to these people, in my opinion.

00:40:28Thank you very much for the question, and thank you for

00:40:32recognizing the issue about housing and so forth.

00:40:37That is something that we care deeply about, are working to get our arms around.

00:40:45Let's see, we appreciate also the committee efforts to avoid significant staffing impacts in 2024.

00:40:54What I could say is that DOI's work is staff intensive.

00:40:58It's public facing in 2,400 locations.

00:41:03Staffing went up last year.

00:41:06Now we're close to 60, it went up by 2%, so we're able to hire 2% closer to where we need it to be.

00:41:15We're close to 63,000 FTs, that's department wide.

00:41:18I know you're particularly speaking of the BLM.

00:41:24And so I wish I could tell you specifically what you need to know.

00:41:30We'll have to follow up with you on that.

00:41:33However, we appreciate knowing your concern, and we'll zero in on something that you can get your arms around.

00:41:41But we know that we need to make sure we're paying attention.

00:41:48And I appreciate that.

00:41:50Full disclosure, I will be trying in a responsible manner through this committee's work process

00:41:57to, as we go through that budget stuff, to say is there some way we can provide a proposed solution?

00:42:04I will be contacting your folks so that it's not like, hey, nobody made you a doctor and your cure stinks or something like that.

00:42:10But I just think the status quo has been a status quo for too long, and I don't see anything changing.

00:42:18So thank you for that.

00:42:19Now I want to talk a little bit about fuels, because it touches on a whole bunch of other things.

00:42:25And I know there was some money for fuels in one of the President's infrastructure act or something like that.

00:42:31But as we talk about sage hen and we talk about fire suppression and

00:42:36how we pay those folks and all that other sort of stuff, I'm looking at what we're doing in BLM for

00:42:43fuels reduction as a regular thing, because the infrastructure act money isn't ongoing.

00:42:49It will run out.

00:42:51And so as we talk about, do we really care about greater sage grouse or bi-state or any of that stuff?

00:42:57And we're sitting here going, and you've said, and I think it's accurate, hey, the populations continue to drop.

00:43:05And everybody else has said, since we're talking about science, number one threat, fire.

00:43:11I appreciate once it's burning, we've got to do what we need to do to put it out and rehab it.

00:43:16But stopping it from being hundreds of thousands of acres, especially in the west,

00:43:21because I can tell you right now, it's not a real big prediction.

00:43:26If we continue to judge just by how many acres we lose to fire, then the whole sage hen thing's a disaster.

00:43:34And so I would like to see a real commitment,

00:43:38especially in the context of sage hen country, to,

00:43:43if we really care about that species, we need to do something to make those fires smaller.

00:43:48And fuels is the thing, we won't get into grazing and all that other sort of stuff.

00:43:53And I don't see a real big thing, other than the infrastructure piece, where there's there,

00:43:59because, and you say, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, why do we care about that?

00:44:04Because the chairman intimated in Idaho, that's a big deal.

00:44:08I'll tell you what, if you list the greater sage grouse in my neck of the woods, you shut the state down.

00:44:13You own, you don't own, but the federal government owns north of 80% of it.

00:44:19Grazing, mining, recreation, all that stuff, it's like, oh, endangered species, time out.

00:44:25It's like, have a nice day with anything resembling multiple use.

00:44:31Oh, by the way, you can still hunt sage hen in Nevada.

00:44:34They're not a threat for me, because I can't shoot very well.

00:44:38I can shoot at them all day long and not hurt one.

00:44:40But, it's my time, please.

00:44:45And therefore, it just covers so many things in the west.

00:44:50And when we look at what we went through with Secretary Jewell to create this stuff,

00:44:53it really seems to me like what's been going on now is both sides of your mouth.

00:44:58There was a big hug fest in Denver, and state governors were there, everybody loved everybody.

00:45:03It's like, by the way, we're taking this back.

00:45:06It just, none of it connects for me, and I'm concerned about it.

00:45:10So, anything on fuels?

00:45:13Congressman, yes.

00:45:14And I'll end my rant with that.

00:45:15Well, I appreciate it, and of course, we understand and thank you for speaking so frankly with us.

00:45:24As far as fuel goes, $288 million for fuels, that's $74 million above 2024 enacted.

00:45:34And it includes $25 million in base supplemental pay increases for

00:45:38firefighters together with bill funds that will treat 1.8 million acres in 2025.

00:45:45And I appreciate that.

00:45:49I would just say this.

00:45:51If we're really worried about that species, then maybe that ought to have some targeting language in it.

00:45:57In other words, to avoid a listing.

00:45:59Thank you for that.

00:46:00Or at least do what we can.

00:46:01Thank you. And the other side of that is rehab language, because if we don't talk about,

00:46:07if we don't start at Fish and Wildlife about talking about what we're doing to rehab and put that in.

00:46:11If we just look at what's burned, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy in the west.

00:46:15Yes, I understand.

00:46:17And we do want to, we don't want to have fire, big, huge fires that kill everything.

00:46:23We understand the need to prevent them in the first place.

00:46:28And especially in light of climate change, it becomes a super important issue.

00:46:32Thank you, and if there's anything to yield back, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

00:46:36You passed that a long time ago.

00:46:37Mr. Zinke.

00:46:42Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Madam Secretary, welcome back.

00:46:46As a secretary, obviously, you get used to big issues, like public lands and

00:46:51access and climate change, and etc., etc., the big issues.

00:46:56But occasionally, smaller issues come up.

00:46:59And one small issue has come up in my district, which is very concerning to me, and it may tip other concerns.

00:47:07Well, Madam Secretary, are you aware of a local minor baseball team called the Glacier Riders?

00:47:16Range Riders?

00:47:18Well, are you aware that your department's litigation over the Glacier Range Riders logo,

00:47:26are you aware that your department is litigating over their logo?

00:47:31Congressman, I believe the name changes go to the Board of Geographic Names.

00:47:38Nothing to do with name change, it's a logo.

00:47:40Are you aware that your department is in litigation?

00:47:45Yes or no, ma'am?

00:47:46No, I'm not aware.

00:47:48Are you aware that the arrowhead is oftentimes used as a logo in many organizations?

00:47:57No, I'm not aware of that.

00:47:59Let me give you an example of an arrowhead being used as logos for those Kansas City guys.

00:48:08This is a numerous, and there are high schools, etc., etc., that all use the logos.

00:48:17So my point is gathering, have you also

00:48:22understand that the government patent office

00:48:29has twice ruled against your department on

00:48:33that the Glacier Riders do not violate the patent?

00:48:39So are you aware of that?

00:48:41And yes or no, and I would assume that we know, I don't want to answer for you.

00:48:45Congressman, just to be clear, I'm not aware of anything with the Range Riders.

00:48:49Well, and this is the problem as a secretary, because sometimes a large

00:48:54department does harm to local entities, like the baseball team, and I'll go further.

00:49:01I'm going to read a missive from your attorneys sent to the baseball team.

00:49:08After the US Patent Office said twice that it's not a violation of the logo.

00:49:15So what you demanded was a sample of each label, tag,

00:49:21sticker, container, package, box, packaging insert,

00:49:25point of sale display, and brochure ever used,

00:49:30sold to be considered for use or sale bearing the Range Riders logo.

00:49:35To be clear, the request would also cover production of each and

00:49:40every item sold, contemplated for sale as well as packaging.

00:49:46Do you think that that is a reasonable thing to ask of a Glacier Minor League Range Riders baseball team?

00:49:56Congressman, I am not allowed to comment on ongoing litigation.

00:50:01Well, I'm allowed to comment on this, is that your budget has requested more funds, significantly more funds.

00:50:09And yet, that action has resulted in at least $500,000 of expenses

00:50:16to a minor league team that's just trying to throw a pitch.

00:50:20But when you ask me for more money, and yet you prioritize this, I'm going to question it.

00:50:27And it's my right and my duty as a congressman to question it.

00:50:32So now I sit on appropriations, and I'm not being hard on you, I'm being serious.

00:50:36I'll sit on appropriations, and that budget's going to be scrutinized.

00:50:41Lastly, your discussion, secondly, over climate change.

00:50:46You have pointed out that you use science.

00:50:49And when I was secretary, I had the honor of making sure my director of the USGS was an astronaut and had a PhD in geology.

00:50:59So you talk about sea level change and science.

00:51:02Have you ever read the multi-agency Department of Interior Climate Change Report dated 2017?

00:51:11And no, I haven't, no.

00:51:18Madam Secretary, I would suggest you read that.

00:51:24Because it came from your department.

00:51:26And in that, have you ever heard the term glacial isostatic adjustment?

00:51:34I have not.

00:51:35Okay, so glacial isostatic adjustment on the east coast is because we had glaciers.

00:51:44Large, thick, heavy glaciers on the plate to the north.

00:51:50In Maine, all the way down to Jersey.

00:51:54So when that plate moves and you have the glaciers on it, and

00:51:57the glaciers are removed over time, there's an isostatic adjustment.

00:52:03So if you read that report, it would have talked about it.

00:52:06It also would have talked about sea level rise versus depression.

00:52:14And I know you're probably not aware, but the sea level rise fully compensated for

00:52:19also the shift, the sinking, is about one millimeter a year.

00:52:29That would be in the report.

00:52:31Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

00:52:33Thank you, Mr. Elkey.

00:52:36Thank you, Chairman Simpson and Madam Secretary for being here.

00:52:39I'll get right to the questions.

00:52:42Over the last several decades, the Gulf of Mexico has been a multi-use basin.

00:52:46However, the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management recently published its notice

00:52:50of availability of the area identification or area ID for

00:52:54the proposed Gulf of Mexico lease sales 262, 263, and 264.

00:53:00And is already potentially excluding blocks for the not yet finalized Gulf of

00:53:05Mexico Rises Whale critical habitat, potential wind energy area blocks,

00:53:12sand sediment resources area blocks, and topographic blocks.

00:53:16This signals a move away from multiple use and instead looks to be arbitrarily

00:53:21excluding areas from potential oil and gas lease sales, which is unprecedented.

00:53:27Never happened before, until now.

00:53:29So, what is different now to push DOI to move away from multiple use?

00:53:36Congressman, thank you for the question.

00:53:38And we do have a multiple use mandate for our public lands, and that's what we do.

00:53:46Okay.

00:53:48Why is DOI then moving to exclude the proposed Rises Whale critical habitat area,

00:53:53even though that critical habitat has not yet been finalized?

00:53:57I'm happy to get back with you on that specific question,

00:54:02Congressman, if you were seeking data or something of that nature.

00:54:08But I will say that we are very careful about

00:54:13how we are moving our clean energy transition forward.

00:54:18And I also want to say that with respect to offshore wind,

00:54:25we have a large number of conversations with stakeholders.

00:54:32And we absolutely speak with many people before we make any decisions of that kind.

00:54:40Okay, well, with the Rises Whale critical habitat area, the ruling has to be made before you can block it.

00:54:46If you block it before the ruling is made, then that's definitely not going off the science.

00:54:50And to do so preemptively shows a bias against oil and

00:54:55gas production in that area, barring none, because you just want to.

00:55:00So I'd urge caution in blocking that area before the ruling has come out.

00:55:04I appreciate that.

00:55:05Thank you.

00:55:06Following a court decision, the BOEM was required to restore the 6 million acres that it had initially excluded from lease sale 261.

00:55:15After claiming those acres needed to be excluded due to potential impacts to the Rises Whale.

00:55:20Unexplicably, BOEM made this decision again before the critical habitat determination was finalized.

00:55:26Are you going to continue with this, or is this mistake going to be made again?

00:55:29Because this is a mistake.

00:55:30You can't do it before it's been finalized.

00:55:33So it's basically the same question asked a different way.

00:55:37So are you going to continue with that before it's been finalized?

00:55:41Congressman, I apologize.

00:55:43I'm very, we're happy to get back with your office as soon as I have a moment and answer that specific question.

00:55:49Sure, sure.

00:55:50You only have 8 billion topics that you have to cover, so I don't expect you to have a memory of those.

00:55:55But I would like to get those answers.

00:55:57Thank you.

00:55:58We'll be happy to contact you.

00:55:59Well, let's move on to one last question, Mr. Chairman.

00:56:02The five year Outer Continental Shelf leasing program issued by the Biden administration has the fewest lease sales

00:56:08scheduled in the history of five year programs, dating back to the 1980s.

00:56:13And 2024 will be the first year since 1965 without an offshore lease sale.

00:56:18So with offshore production accounting for 15% of US oil production in a time

00:56:23where the world is going to need all of ours, all of our energy production, do you think it's important to continue offshore production?

00:56:31Congressman, as you know, we do follow the law in all of these issues.

00:56:36I will say that with respect to the national OCS program, three lease sales in the plan have the greatest resource potential and

00:56:44benefits with the least potentially significant impacts and costs to society.

00:56:52Let's see, proposed schedule will best meet national energy needs for the next five years,

00:56:57and it meets all of the Inflation Reduction Act requirements that Congress put on us.

00:57:03I also would like to say that US production on public lands and waters is at an all time high currently.

00:57:11That doesn't really matter.

00:57:13What I'm asking about is 262, and I know you're getting a lot of papers from right back, so let's summarize this in one way.

00:57:19Will you commit to a lease sale for 262?

00:57:22Congressman, we are going to operate within the law, and I-

00:57:29Get to yes, come on, let me hear yes.

00:57:33Commit to the lease sale that's required on the five year plan.

00:57:36We are going to do everything that we're required to do with respect to our energy needs.

00:57:44In this country, I know Congress has mandated us to have lease sales.

00:57:50We're going to have those.

00:57:51Very well, thank you.

00:57:52Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

00:57:53Thank you, ma'am.

00:57:54Sounded like a yes to me.

00:57:58Madam Secretary, last month the administration released a decision reversing the Critical Endangered Species Act reforms.

00:58:04Implemented during the previous administration, reinstating the blanket 4D rule,

00:58:08which automatically provides for endangered level protections to species listed only as threatened.

00:58:15I have heard concerns that this change will lead us to less flexibility for land owners and

00:58:20stakeholders and could tie up land owners in mountains of unnecessary bureaucratic red tape.

00:58:25Ceasing any economic progress for rural communities across the United States.

00:58:29Can you walk us through what these changes are and how they will improve the Endangered Species Act?

00:58:36And what resources has the department provided to private land owners to understand this rule making?

00:58:43And did the department consider the negative impacts related to economic development associated with this rule making?

00:58:49Thank you, Congressman.

00:58:51So the Fish and Wildlife Service finalized three rules to restore protections for

00:58:56species in their habitats, strengthen processes for listing, designating critical habitats, and consultation with federal partners.

00:59:04The changes may do not further impede on private land owners' rights.

00:59:08Rules are not expected to change the number or frequency of listings and delistings,

00:59:12the total amount or area of critical habitat designated, the rate or

00:59:17frequency of section seven consultation, or the resulting conclusion.

00:59:21The rules do provide clear, straightforward regulations to recover listed species and

00:59:25protect critical habitats for section seven consultations, species classification, and critical habitat.

00:59:32And there is a separate rule finalized to encourage participation and

00:59:36voluntary collaborative conservation with resource managers and land owners.

00:59:41I know that we are always in contact with stakeholders whenever any of these issues come to light.

00:59:48So I want to assure you that we operate in a transparent manner and certainly do welcome those comments.

00:59:56I appreciate that, but there's a difference in being in contact with local stakeholders and listening to local stakeholders.

01:00:03We listen.

01:00:03Two difference.

01:00:04We do listen.

01:00:05And because they ought to have some input in this, but it sounds to me like it's not going to change anything.

01:00:11If it's not going to change anything, then why the hell are we doing it?

01:00:15Thank you, Congressman.

01:00:19We're doing it because I think it will make things better.

01:00:25Clarify some certain things.

01:00:27We'll have a discussion on this later.

01:00:30In southeast Idaho is the home to one of the world's most significant phosphate reserves.

01:00:36And these reserves have been in production for many years.

01:00:39One such mine, the Caldwell Canyon Mine, is currently under review by the Bureau of Land Management.

01:00:43This mine is of great importance not only to my constituents and our state's economy, but also to the country's agricultural industry.

01:00:50When complete, Caldwell Canyon Mine will provide the only source of phosphate in the United States,

01:00:56which is critically important to our nation and the world's food supply.

01:00:59The BLM has been diligently working on this project for many years.

01:01:05When can we expect the BLM to issue an updated record of decision related to this project?

01:01:10I welcome hearing any related updates you can share.

01:01:13Thank you very much, Chairman.

01:01:15And so the new EIS will address the issues identified by the court and

01:01:21the BLM plans to have a draft EIS available for public review later this year.

01:01:26This schedule could result in a final EIS and ROD in early 2025.

01:01:32Does that answer your question, sir?

01:01:33Yep, thank you.

01:01:35One last question from me here before I have to step out and do another hearing for a minute.

01:01:41Upstairs, I have to go to it for just a minute.

01:01:44I continue to hear from tribes across the country about law enforcement issues on Indian reservations.

01:01:49Whether it's jurisdictional issues, a lack of police force, or slow response times, this is a serious issue.

01:01:56Violent crimes continue to rise and lethal drugs like fentanyl run rampant in Indian country.

01:02:02And of course, the drug cartels choose reservations because they know there's not a lot of law enforcement out there.

01:02:07While we work to protect law enforcement accounts during the tough budget year of 2024, I know it's not enough and more work needs to be done.

01:02:15I understand that this is a continued joint effort across many federal agencies.

01:02:22But what is DOI doing to support tribal law enforcement, bridge gaps in coverage, and hire and retain police forces?

01:02:28And what else can DOI and this subcommittee in particular do to keep tribal communities safe?

01:02:36Thank you so much, Chairman.

01:02:38And thank you, I know we spoke about this yesterday and I appreciate your concern.

01:02:43And of course, we recognize that there's an issue.

01:02:51We want to make sure that we can hire folks.

01:02:54Some of these Indian tribal nations are very rural.

01:03:00We want to make sure that we can hire local folks so they can stay in their communities.

01:03:03That's one issue.

01:03:05Sometimes we hire them and then they get swept away by another agency.

01:03:11I am more than happy to have Joan, who has worked on this issue day in and

01:03:17day out, answer some specific questions if that's okay with you.

01:03:20Joan, go ahead.

01:03:21Sure.

01:03:22Well, it is a high priority for us, and the request gives 651 million for

01:03:28public safety and justice programs, which is a $96 million increase.

01:03:34So we need this strong increase.

01:03:35We have a long way to go to address these needs in Indian country.

01:03:40And without this budget, we'd not be able to fund roughly 222 federal tribal officers.

01:03:48Or add 120 federal and tribal positions to improve the operations of BIA funded detention and correction facilities.

01:03:57And we wouldn't be able to reduce, it would reduce other programs to meet

01:04:03court ordered requirements to Navajo courts and delay needed maintenance and

01:04:08offering requirements at tribal courts, so very important that we get this funding.

01:04:14Thank you, I agree, and it is, I've talked to a lot of tribes.

01:04:19And if I go to the Fort Hall Indian Reservation and talk to them,

01:04:24their police officers have to go through the same training as every other police officer does in the state.

01:04:30And the problem is, is they come back, they work on the reservation,

01:04:36and then Blackfoot, where I grew up, is 20 miles north, and Pocatello is 20 miles south of there.

01:04:42Actually, it's only 12 miles east direction.

01:04:44And they get, the cities hire them and

01:04:50pay them a lot more than tribes can afford to pay them, and so it's like a training ground for these officers and so forth.

01:04:57And we have some issues about cross jurisdiction and memorandums of understandings with counties and all sorts of stuff.

01:05:04But every time I talk to one of the tribes about the issue of murdered and missing indigenous women.

01:05:12They will almost always say, we don't have enough law enforcement officers.

01:05:18And you got a reservation the size of Rhode Island or Delaware or whatever, and

01:05:22you got seven officers patrolling it for 24 hours a day.

01:05:28You get a domestic violence call, it might be an hour, an hour and a half, two hours before you can get there.

01:05:33By then, the domestic violence is done.

01:05:36We've got to focus on this if we're going to ever address this issue.

01:05:39We know that we lose 6,000 indigenous women

01:05:47to the murdered and missing category every year.

01:05:50If this happened with any other subpopulation within our country, there would be public outrage.

01:05:58But nobody really knows this.

01:06:00I only learned about it by, I was watching a TV program one night.

01:06:03They came up and they discussed it with this lady from the Nez Perce tribe that is actively involved.

01:06:08And we're going to hold a briefing on this, this year on this subcommittee.

01:06:13And part of it is also getting the FBI involved, because the FBI has jurisdiction on tribal lands and so forth.

01:06:19And sometimes it's hard to find an FBI agent.

01:06:23So we need to focus our attention on this, and we're going to definitely do that this year.

01:06:29So I appreciate it.

01:06:30Thank you, and I've got to step out for just a minute.

01:06:33And Mr. Zinke will take over for me for a few minutes while I run up and try to ask the question of the Army Corps of Engineers.

01:06:40Thank you.

01:06:40Thank you, Chairman.

01:06:41Good luck.

01:06:42Yeah.

01:06:48A gentlewoman from Maine.

01:06:51Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

01:06:52And thank you, Madam Secretary, for your answers.

01:06:56And I just, I guess I can't help myself.

01:07:00I want to mention something about sea level rise, since you brought it up, our current Mr. Chair.

01:07:06And I really appreciate your willingness to focus on this, whether it's the tribes or other states.

01:07:11I guess I just have to say, I'm happy to read the 2017 report.

01:07:16It is seven years, and a lot has changed.

01:07:19And I think maybe because you're in Montana, you don't see what I see on the coast of Maine.

01:07:25So I'd be happy to invite you out any time, or anyone on the committee who'd like to take a look at this who has some concerns about whether or

01:07:31not this is real, and I don't know about glacial isostatic adjustment, but I'm going to learn all about it.

01:07:38But I just want to tell you, this year we had two back-to-back severe storms.

01:07:42And I'm sure in 2017, nobody in my community, a fishing town 12 miles off the coast of Maine on an island,

01:07:49thought there would ever be anything like we saw this year, two back-to-back storms.

01:07:53We have a 180-year-old boat yard, basically, in our district.

01:07:58In our little town of 400, everybody turned out between the first and

01:08:02the second storm because they were so worried that this building that's been there forever, and the fishermen depend on, was going to wash away.

01:08:07They had block and tackles and chains.

01:08:10They put cement blocks on the floor.

01:08:11They did everything they could possibly think of to try to hold it on land, to try to keep it there.

01:08:16And right now, we don't know if it'll survive.

01:08:18It got through that storm, it got through the second storm, but we're probably going to lose it.

01:08:22You can come visit the coast of Maine and see up and down the coast of Maine, 150-year-old piers everywhere, communities like Stonington, Maine, fishing towns.

01:08:30They're washing away.

01:08:32This was a tide like we had never seen before, and a storm surge from the southeast, which is weather we used to never have before.

01:08:38So you can say that there's some kind of tectonic plate shift going on, or this isn't really real, or whatever.

01:08:44But I invite you to come to my communities.

01:08:46These are fishermen.

01:08:47These are communities that are going to disappear.

01:08:50Not to mention the tribal communities.

01:08:51I'm just talking about our fishing towns, our community piers.

01:08:55They're going away.

01:08:56This tide is higher than we have ever imagined could happen to us, and it's not even there yet.

01:09:04It's not even anywhere near what the maps say.

01:09:06Places that are peninsulas are going to turn into islands.

01:09:09Communities are losing their sewer systems, their infrastructure.

01:09:12It's all going away.

01:09:14So it's one thing to sit inland in Montana, you got mountains you can run to the top, but we don't have those options.

01:09:22And however we want to describe why this is happening, I just want to thank you, Madam Secretary, and

01:09:27your department for putting this focus on, because this is extremely real to us.

01:09:32It's very emotional to us.

01:09:34It's the end of so many of our communities, and we don't know where we're going to get the money to deal with all this.

01:09:39We don't know how we're going to move to higher ground when there isn't higher ground, or it's already filled up.

01:09:44Our island communities, our coastal communities, this is really serious to us, so thank you for your attention to us.

01:09:50I thoroughly invite anyone from this committee, come spend some time in my district and see the coast of Maine.

01:09:57We'd love to have you, but you're going to see some tears in the eyes of fishermen and

01:10:01people, hardcore Republican conservatives who don't always vote for me.

01:10:07But they want to know what we're going to do about this.

01:10:10I invite you to join us in doing that.

01:10:12Ranking member, if I could just say very quickly, Maine was one of the first places I visited when I came into this position.

01:10:20Thank you for that.

01:10:20At Canadian National Park.

01:10:21And so I just want you to know that we care deeply about every single community that is facing these issues.

01:10:31It's American traditions, the fishermen, and

01:10:36we equate that with, when we think about those fishermen, we think about your state.

01:10:41So it is heartbreaking when you think that these are lives of people that are getting washed away.

01:10:48And so we're doing everything we possibly can to address the issues.

01:10:52I thank you for that, and I thank you for visiting our state.

01:10:56The challenge is, and I think this is what many of us saw this winter, that we never really had knowledge in this visceral way.

01:11:03This is so much bigger than any one of us.

01:11:05This is so much bigger than the budget that we have.

01:11:07This is so much bigger than our petty arguments about what's real and not real.

01:11:11You just gotta come and see it to understand.

01:11:15And if it can happen twice this winter, what's coming next year?

01:11:19Who knows?

01:11:20Okay, I'm going to completely change topics here.

01:11:23I want to talk about the Compact of Free Association, which actually does involve some island communities, but of course, a far cry from the Atlantic Ocean.

01:11:33I was really pleased to see that the second fiscal year 2024 Consolidate Appropriations Act included amendments to the Compact of Free Association.

01:11:41This will allow the United States to meet our commitments to freely associated states.

01:11:45The agreement will provide 6.5 billion of economic assistance over 20 years to the federate states of Micronesia,

01:11:52the Republic of Marshall Islands, and Republic of Palau.

01:11:55So this is a major achievement, and I'm curious about how these funds will build on the previous successes of the investments

01:12:02that you made.

01:12:03Can you tell me a little more?

01:12:05And I just want to say one exciting aspect of the agreement is that it restores eligibility for

01:12:10key federal public benefit programs for freely associated state individuals while they are lawfully present in the United States.

01:12:18Implementation is going to require a multi-agency effort by the federal government.

01:12:23Will the Office of Insular Affairs help coordinate it with other federal agencies like USDA and VA in order to leverage your expertise?

01:12:30And I've had a chance to communicate with some of the principals in the country, so

01:12:35I know this is a pressing issue, and I just want to know how we can work together on this.

01:12:39Yes, absolutely.

01:12:40So thank you so much for your support.

01:12:43This was a long time coming.

01:12:45It took a lot of conversations, a lot of traveling, a lot of really frank and

01:12:52in-depth roundtable conversations with people to get this done.

01:12:59I was very honored to visit the Pacific, and I understand what this means to them.

01:13:05Thank you for mentioning the citizens lawfully residing in the US issue.

01:13:14The new law also provides access to benefits for US military veterans who live in the freely associated states,

01:13:21and they can now receive the benefits they earned and rightfully deserve.

01:13:25The DOI is working with the Department of State and other agencies to thoughtfully implement these changes,

01:13:31and we will continue to work with inter-agency partners to ensure COFA implementation,

01:13:36including the changes in allowable benefits, is as successful as the negotiations.

01:13:42The initial work underway to ensure new funds are in place and appoint DOI's representatives to the inter-agency group for

01:13:49freely associated states and other implementation committees.

01:13:53So we are on this.

01:13:54It's a long time coming.

01:13:56There are many hours of prayer and everything else you can think of to get this across the finish line.

01:14:03And I know that the freely associated states are very happy to have it done.

01:14:09Yeah, well, congratulations on getting that done.

01:14:11I know it's been a long time coming, and I'm so happy to finally have meetings about how to implement it.

01:14:16Not when will we ever get this done, so that's great.

01:14:19That's it for me.

01:14:20I'll yield back.

01:14:20Thank you.

01:14:25Thank you, Mr. Chair.

01:14:28Secretary Holland, thanks again.

01:14:31I appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to be here and accommodate our questions.

01:14:38According to the National Park Service data, the Blue Ridge Parkway in Western North Carolina is,

01:14:44unsurprisingly, the most visited national park in

01:14:502023, with more than 16.7 million recreational visits.

01:14:55And it has consistently been among the most visited parks for the last two decades.

01:15:01Even better, if you follow the Blue Ridge Parkway to its southernmost end,

01:15:06it will bring you right into my district, to the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

01:15:13And I wish our senior chairman were here now, because he was telling me the other day,

01:15:18he thought that the Great Smoky Mountains National Park was in Tennessee, but

01:15:22it's also very much in North Carolina for the interest of everyone in this room.

01:15:28In fact, it's about evenly split between Tennessee and North Carolina.

01:15:33And the Great Smoky Mountains National Park is the third most visited national park in 2023,

01:15:40and yet another one of my district's greatest wonders.

01:15:45In both instances, the parkway and the park struggle with deferred maintenance and repair projects.

01:15:52And without asking for more money, Madam Secretary,

01:15:56can you explain how the Department of Interior determines how much funding that each national park receives annually?

01:16:05Is it formula based, or is there some other

01:16:10process that you use to prioritize where the available funds are distributed?

01:16:18Thank you very much, Congressman.

01:16:20And I've been to both, the Blue Ridge Parkway and the Great Smoky Mountains.

01:16:25And the Great Smoky Mountains from your state is adjacent to the Eastern Band of Cherokee Nation.

01:16:33So there's an entrance right there, and I saw some wild turkeys running around, it was very nice.

01:16:39So, I can give you an idea.

01:16:41Did you miss the elk?

01:16:42I didn't see any elk during that visit.

01:16:45We've replenished the elk population, you'd really enjoy seeing that, too.

01:16:49Well, it is truly beautiful, and so in my travels,

01:16:54of course, you see that the funding that we give to national parks is well spent, and it's needed and necessary, and all of that.

01:17:04So I can give you an idea of the type of funding parks in your area receive.

01:17:09Our fiscal year 2025 budget requests for annual appropriations include 20 million for

01:17:13Blue Ridge, 23.7 for Great Smoky Mountains, which is 1.5 million above 2023.

01:17:21Also, through the Great American Outdoors Act Legacy Restoration Fund Program,

01:17:27185 million already received for multiple projects at Blue Ridge.

01:17:3335 million to replace the Laurel Fork Bridge, work is underway.

01:17:37150 million to reconstruct sections of the parkway, work is underway.

01:17:41And 35 million to rehab park roads at the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

01:17:48Of course, different parks require different levels of funding due to what their infrastructure needs are.

01:17:56And so, I can't tell you how

01:18:02everything is figured out.

01:18:05That's a question for the National Park Service Director.

01:18:10However, we do take those under consideration.

01:18:15And the superintendents themselves make sure that we know exactly what is needed in each park,

01:18:22and we respond accordingly as best we can.

01:18:27And so, I gather from that, because there are a lot of needs.

01:18:31I gather from that there's no set formula that perhaps

01:18:39the old adage comes in, and I'm sure you've heard the squeaky wheel.

01:18:44Yes, I've heard that.

01:18:46Meet the squeaky wheel.

01:18:47Indeed.

01:18:48Well, we welcome you to be the squeaky wheel.

01:18:52We welcome you to call us every day if you would like to, and let us know how much you care about these.

01:18:58And we appreciate that.

01:19:01All right, thank you very much.

01:19:02Mr. Chair, I yield.

01:19:04Madam Secretary.

01:19:05Thanks.

01:19:06So, let's talk about Indian country.

01:19:09And when I was Secretary, we established a multi-agency

01:19:16task force to address drug trafficking and

01:19:20Indian human trafficking.

01:19:23It was comprised of elements from your department, BLM,

01:19:29US Park Service, US Park Police, FBI, BIA.

01:19:35And the idea was to augment and supplement in coordination with the tribes.

01:19:40The tribes requested it, we provided the service in coordination with the tribes to go after exactly what we talked about.

01:19:47Drugs, human trafficking, where are the kids going?

01:19:52And when you took office, you discontinued that.

01:19:58Even though it was incredibly successful in the numbers and

01:20:02the amount of fentanyl and drugs confiscated is not in dispute.

01:20:08Why?

01:20:10Congressman, I appreciate the question.

01:20:14And I recognize that perhaps we have different leadership styles.

01:20:19I appreciate your service to our country as the Secretary of the Interior.

01:20:23Was it because it was a Trump administration?

01:20:26Because almost everything the Trump administration did, you immediately ended.

01:20:30Whether it was good or bad or indifferent.

01:20:32So, why? That's not altogether true, honestly.

01:20:34That's not true.

01:20:36Were you aware you discontinued this?

01:20:38However, we are-

01:20:39Madam Secretary, were you aware that the task force was discontinued when you took office?

01:20:45I was not aware of the task force, your task force, Congressman.

01:20:52However, we are working very hard to ensure that we are providing the necessary services to Indian country.

01:20:58Would you agree that perhaps the task force that had the FBI, BIA, BLM, US Park Service-

01:21:07I really appreciate that-

01:21:08Together, would you agree that such a task force would be helpful to Indian nations?

01:21:13Congressman, would you like us to contact your office and have a conversation about this?

01:21:17I'm just asking you, do you think it would be helpful?

01:21:19I-

01:21:20You can't answer whether a task force with multiple law enforcement agencies,

01:21:28in coordination with Indian country, wouldn't be helpful in addressing some of the issue

01:21:34about drug trafficking, child traffic, indigenous personnel missing or killed.

01:21:40I truly do appreciate that suggestion, Congressman, and we appreciate it.

01:21:45Well, let me, first of all, the science is the same in Maine as it is in Montana, and I follow the science.

01:21:53I always have.

01:21:55So, sometimes you look at it, and the science, for those that have read the 2017

01:22:02multi-agency Department of Interior Climate Change Report, there's 200 models, 1,000 variables.

01:22:12So, some people that don't look at science manipulate those variables for an outcome.

01:22:17That's not science.

01:22:20The science was saying Glacier Park, which the glaciers are melting.

01:22:24Absolutely, I've been on the glaciers, eating lunch, I've witnessed the recede of the glacier.

01:22:32It started 10,000 years ago.

01:22:35Sea level rise has been the same for about 7,000 years, more or less.

01:22:43Hurricanes, the frequency, Madam Secretary,

01:22:47are you aware that the frequencies of hurricanes has neither increased nor

01:22:54decreased in frequency a number of times in the last 400 years?

01:22:59Every time a hurricane happens, it's seemingly-

01:23:03Are you aware that the frequency has gone up or down, or do you believe it has?

01:23:08I'm just curious.

01:23:10I believe that the storms have gotten more intense, stronger storms than-

01:23:16I will give you that data, and it's science.

01:23:18So, do I agree that erosion and tides have an enormous effect on Maine and its beautiful coastline?

01:23:25Absolutely.

01:23:27Do I think that our older buildings are at risk?

01:23:30Because it is changing.

01:23:33And should we address them?

01:23:34Yeah, because there's buildings and structures that are absolutely worth saving this country.

01:23:38And tradition is part of it.

01:23:41So, I'll work with you, but science is science, and science is the same in the great state of Maine as in Montana.

01:23:47So, with that, thank you, Madam Secretary.

01:23:50And if you would, I am going to scrutinize your legal department to see where you're spending.

01:23:58Having to get a Major League Baseball team at $500,000 to spend money over a logo that has twice,

01:24:04twice been ruled by the governing authority not to be a logo infringement, I think is atrocious.

01:24:12And unless I was sitting here, I don't think you would know it.

01:24:16And that's a mistake of us all.

01:24:18So, Madam, do you have anything further?

01:24:21No, thank you.

01:24:22But thank you for appearing.

01:24:24Thank you.

01:24:25Thank you for all taking the time to join us this morning.

01:24:27We look forward to being with you over the coming months.

01:24:30Questions have been no doubt delivered, and we would appreciate an answer in a timely fashion.

01:24:37This committee stands adjourned.

01:24:38Good to see you, Denise.

01:24:40Good to see you, too, sir.

Interior Secretary Deb Haaland Testifies Before The House Appropriations Committee

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