In this edition, panellists reflect on the woes of the EU single market in the context of a shrinking European economy. They also zoom in on Europe's drinking culture and give their views on taxing the rich.
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00:00 Hello there and welcome to Brussels, my love, Euronews' weekly talk show, all about the
00:17 news here in Brussels and beyond. I'm Maeve McMahon. Thanks for tuning in. Coming up this
00:23 week, business is booming in the US and China where there's far fewer green rules to comply
00:29 with. So how is Europe planning to stay afloat? A blast from the past. Brussels has appointed
00:35 former Italian Premier Enrico Letta to propose some new ideas to fix the single market. With
00:41 so much at stake and elections looming, we're asking how Europe will avoid a sharp decline.
00:47 And with the poor getting poorer, the billionaires are getting richer. That's according to new
00:53 research from Oxfam. The NGO has taken to the streets of Brussels to call for a tax
00:58 on the rich. A European citizen initiative wants the commission to bring in a European
01:03 levy on excess wealth. But did the idea even make it onto the political agenda? We'll find
01:08 out with our panel this weekend. Andrea Renda, Director of Research at CEPS. Raquel GarcÃa
01:14 Hermida Van der Waal, a member of the Dutch social liberal political group D66 and a candidate
01:20 for the EU elections. And Dr. Owen Dray, Senior Researcher at the Wilfrid Martin Centre here
01:27 in Brussels. Lovely to have you all here. Thank you so much for being with us. And as
01:31 usual, before we get your stance, let's just hear what was on the political menu of an
01:35 EU summit this week. A midlife crisis at 30? That's not Saxony City, Brussels edition,
01:44 but the quandaries facing the EU single market. Was created in the 1990s to make it easier
01:52 to trade and move freely across Europe. But is it ready for a reshake? A new report penned
02:00 by Enrico Letta is frank. It states if the EU wants to avoid economic decline, it must
02:05 integrate financial, energy and telecommunication markets more. Sounds like Mission Impossible,
02:11 especially with so many political divisions. But with the EU's economy sinking to just
02:19 13% of the global total and the US, China and India in the driving seat, we ask how
02:25 the EU will stay competitive in the context of a war, a climate emergency and big plans
02:30 to expand to Ukraine and elsewhere. Sounds like a pretty daunting task we have here.
02:37 I mean, Enrico Letta saying if we don't integrate and reduce the fragmentation of our economies,
02:42 we will essentially decline. Are we doomed, Andrea? We're not doomed, but we need to recognise
02:48 the urgency of acting to get our act together in Europe. The overall weight of the EU on
02:55 the global economy is shrinking and individual national initiatives don't have the necessary
03:03 weights to really bring back Europe on a more competitive level. And there are many things
03:09 that we had committed to doing and we haven't done on how to integrate better our economies.
03:14 So we need to do it with a big effort and recognising the urgency of it.
03:19 The title of the report was 'Much More Than a Market'. Catchy name, Owen. I mean, will
03:24 it take on? Will anything be done with this 150-page report?
03:27 Well, I think unfortunately we have another report, another election, another report about
03:33 the European single market. But essentially the letter report from a political context
03:38 is essentially a love letter to political failure because nothing really has changed
03:43 in the last 10 years since I think the Monty report was in 2010, 2011. So here we are again.
03:50 So it's really down to political will.
03:52 A love letter to particular failure. And we have a lady here on the panel who's running
03:56 and you'll be sending this message to your campaigners about this report and what's at
04:00 stake for Europe. I mean, what's your take? Did you get a chance to read the paper? What's
04:03 the good, bad and the ugly in it?
04:05 I've definitely read a lot of the summaries of the paper and a lot of the analysis. And
04:10 I think that we have to think about, you said a blast from the past with Leta. We need a
04:16 blast for the future. We really need to move Europe forward in the next few years. We have
04:21 no time to lose and we do need to do so in a very strategic and well thought through
04:26 way. And it's about action. And like Owen said, we have had enough reports, we have
04:31 reacted enough and now it's the time to be proactive and ensure that our citizens have
04:37 the means and the money in their pocket that they need.
04:40 Have we reacted enough? Do you think?
04:42 No, we have been reactive.
04:43 We have been reactive rather than proactive, you mean. Because I remember when the Monty
04:47 report came out, right? It was many years ago. I saw it. I felt like I was a reader
04:52 of the Monty report. I was younger, of course. Today I'm the director of a think tank, the
04:57 largest think tank here in town. I feel responsible to follow up on Leta's provocations. Of course,
05:02 he cannot change the single market by himself. But we have a responsibility to be part of
05:06 this and we're going to push hard to make at least some of these really many proposals
05:10 that are in the report, at least the most important ones, really get traction in Brussels.
05:15 Well, I can bet your bottom dollar that the majority of our viewers, I'm sure, didn't
05:18 have time to read that report. But just to let you know, Enrico Leta did travel across
05:22 the continent in order to prepare for it. He held around 400 meetings, I believe. And
05:27 as I said, he was with EU leaders this week at the summit so that they could chew over
05:31 his report over dinner. We can take a listen now to why he personally thinks the single
05:36 market is so fragmented.
05:38 I realized that it is impossible to use high-speed trains to reach the European capitals one
05:46 by one. I think that this little subject, which each of us already experienced, is an
05:51 element that tells the story of Europe's limits today. High speed exists. It works
06:01 very well, but within countries. You can travel from Barcelona to Madrid or from Aix-en-Provence
06:06 to Paris or from Salerno to Turin. With high speed, it works very well. But when it comes
06:12 to connecting the capitals, that's the problem of the single market.
06:15 Enrico Leta, they're highlighting how fragmented the single market is and use an example that
06:26 we can all relate to, trains, right? But it's tricky. I mean, if it was that easy, it would
06:30 have been done before.
06:31 Exactly. But I think, in fairness to former Prime Minister Leta, high-speed rail is a
06:37 very good example. I think if you look here from this city and you want to go to Berlin,
06:42 it's just under seven hours is the fastest time and you need to change in Cologne. It's
06:47 impossible. But if we want to make that happen, if we want a real functional high-speed line
06:53 from Brussels to Berlin, that's going to require multiple hundreds of millions of euros investment,
07:00 particularly on the German side, because they have severe capacity issues in the rail infrastructure.
07:04 We all know about the issues that Deutsche Bahn have. And now, as you say, it's an absolute
07:09 patchwork. And if we do want to shift from plane to rail, of course, it's crucial for
07:13 the future for our climate goals.
07:15 Definitely. And that's one of the main goals of my party's political programme for the
07:18 next elections. We do need to promote rail. We need to make it easier to travel by train.
07:23 I travel by train a lot. Also, internationally, we have no system which allows you to book
07:28 one ticket from, say, my village in the north of the Netherlands to Filnish, where I tried
07:32 to go a couple of years ago with the train. So we think that we should use the means that
07:38 we have and also invest in the infrastructure, but also making it easier for users to make
07:43 use of that. So we would like to have a European train authority which coordinates all these
07:49 efforts. So it makes it more attractive for train travellers.
07:54 But Leader wants the single market to adapt, Raquel, to areas where traditionally they've
07:58 always been blocked by member states when it comes to telecoms, energy, financing. Do
08:02 you see any prospects after this EU summit this week of anything really changing?
08:06 Well, we have seen the failures, in particular in the telecoms and the energy side of trying
08:12 to only liberalise markets within national borders and how much this creates a very fragmented
08:18 structure. We have close to 200 significant telecom operators in Europe today. So it's
08:23 something that you compare with the US, which is too concentrated in my opinion, but they
08:27 really have a fistful, right? There must be some way in between where we can land to make
08:31 the life of European citizens better and also create space for research and innovation incentives,
08:36 right? That is something that is experimented and has failed. So we can now move on. The
08:41 Digital Networks Act, for example, that was presented by the European Commission a few
08:44 months ago already paves the way for this. Commissioner Breton has already said he would
08:48 like to see more concentration and more, let's say, less fragmentation at the pan-European
08:53 level. And this is going to make the life of European citizens better, just as the life
08:58 of German citizens, if we actually do something about Deutschland, they make a lot of fun
09:01 about it, will become much better. And perhaps they'll thank the EU for it.
09:05 Perhaps. We'll have to wait and see. Raquel, just a comment from you. And then I want to
09:09 look into how that report as well says Europe is falling further and further behind the
09:13 US.
09:14 Now, following the lead of Commissioner Breton, obviously, liberal parties in Europe do want
09:17 to deepen the integration of our markets, energy market, telecom market, but also the
09:22 financial markets. Let's make sure that our companies, our businesses have access to more
09:29 capital in Europe.
09:30 And talk about SMEs. I mean, a big, they are the backbone, so-called backbone of Europe,
09:35 but obviously suffering from a lot of difficulties working currently in the single market against
09:39 the competition of the big industry.
09:41 Well, exactly. And I think, you know, in all the reports about the single market, it is
09:45 capital markets union is absolutely key. And, you know, for ordinary people, that just means,
09:50 you know, moving money and capital around Europe in different countries, being able
09:54 to borrow money, transfer money, save money on kind of a pan-European scale.
09:59 And I think that's absolutely critical, not just for SMEs. I think the really important
10:04 point is if we want to build momentum and support for single market among people and
10:09 among politicians, we should just focus on one or two key areas instead of having our
10:14 efforts dispersed over multiple areas.
10:16 So which areas?
10:17 I would say, given the experience of the last couple of years, the obvious one is energy.
10:22 I think it's classic. But again, we've been here before, after Russia marched into Crimea
10:29 in 2014, we commissioned President Juncker and the Energy Union. So we really, but I
10:34 think energy is something that people can relate to. And it's about interconnecting
10:37 energy systems and grids and security.
10:41 Making smart use of the current infrastructure and making sure that we can reuse it in a
10:46 cheaper way for a new sustainable source of energy. In the Netherlands, we have hydrogen
10:51 by for example, excuse me, and we can use a lot of the current infrastructure to make
10:57 the transition to the clean economy.
10:58 When it comes to hydrogen, I was looking at some figures and we're on the bottom of the
11:02 world scale, if you look globally. Unfortunately, Europe is the bottom of the list in a number
11:06 of areas. But as you can imagine, there's been a flurry of reactions to the latter report
11:11 this week from NGOs, consumer groups, industry groups, and also think tanks have been having
11:16 their say. And just to follow up on what you've been saying there about energy, we can bring
11:19 in now the reaction from Jakob Haffele. He's the chief economist from the Zoe Institute.
11:24 Look, the biggest problem with EU's competitiveness right now is a two-speed Europe with European
11:30 economic powerhouses establishing majority of clean industries at home. Economically,
11:37 that doesn't make much sense. For instance, 60% of Europe's solar production still happens
11:44 in Northern countries. That's really inefficient. What we have to do instead is producing clean
11:50 energy where it's cheapest and relocating energy intense industries to places where
11:55 there's a lot of wind and sun. That way we can cut costs and make Europe more competitive.
12:02 And this is a real win-win. It brings competitiveness to Europe as a whole and jobs and investments
12:10 to economically left behind regions. To make that happen, we need a united industrial deal
12:18 with a clear strategy to establish green production in places with the biggest regional advantages
12:23 and the financial support for left behind regions.
12:26 Jakob Haffele there with what sounds like a practical solution, but again, it would
12:31 have been done if it was easy to create this united industrial deal. Right, Andrea?
12:36 Well, I'm not particularly sure because it's different to consider something completely
12:41 a new or to have failed in doing something else. For example, we know today that if you
12:44 try to rest on state aids to develop an industrial policy for Europe, these state aids will always
12:50 go to the same pockets. Largely, Germany has been able to capture the majority of them,
12:54 in particular during the pandemic. Having integrated spending at a pan-European level
12:59 is something that both Draghi and Letta have been, but also Commissioner Gentiloni have
13:02 been advocating over the past. We need to do it well because there's one thing worth
13:06 to doing nothing. It is wasting 500 billion euros a year. Okay. So we want to do it properly
13:12 in a way that, in my opinion, the Letta report captures well, which is trying to spend it
13:17 upon European level, but also give a chance to each and every portion of the European
13:20 territory. What he calls the freedom to stay, meaning leaving no zip code behind, which
13:26 is my expression on this.
13:28 Leaving no zip code behind. You mentioned Draghi. You're referring, of course, to Mario
13:31 Draghi, another former Italian Prime Minister who's also been tasked with drafting up a
13:35 report. But, Eoin, I'm looking at you. Do you think the current Commission and Brussels
13:39 institutions have focused too much on climate policy and not enough on industrial competitiveness?
13:43 Well, I think in general in Brussels, we've forgotten that the driver of our affluence,
13:48 of our wealth, of our, you know, largely our position in the world is the single market
13:53 and is our attractiveness from foreign direct investment. But essentially what we've seen
13:58 over the last five years is a reorientation away from what I call the basics of, you know,
14:04 our economic self-sufficiency and our economic wealth. And it's not that we pay too much
14:09 attention to climate. Obviously, it is, you know, the defining challenge of the next decades.
14:15 But we cannot forget the single market. And that's why I think, you know, the Letta report
14:22 and the forthcoming Draghi report are, in a sense, a reflection of the failure of the
14:27 last decade, but particularly of the last five years.
14:31 Maybe to complement that, yesterday I was visiting two businesses, conglomerates of
14:37 businesses, small and medium businesses, who have received money from the European Union.
14:43 But because they don't have the manpower, womanpower, for their business operations,
14:50 they cannot use the money, among other reasons. So we also have to think very carefully about
14:56 for which industries do we need people, do we need people from other parts in the European
15:01 Union to move to other countries in the European Union. But we have to be open for migration
15:05 from outside the European Union in an organized, humane way to be able to fulfill the needs
15:11 of our businesses.
15:13 And just on another point, research, innovation, education. According to Enrico Letta, that
15:18 should be the so-called fifth pillar, fifth freedom of the EU's single market. Because
15:23 according now to the report, Israel, South Korea, the US and China are spending the most
15:28 in this field.
15:29 We've been going after this indicator that, in my opinion, is a little bit of, you know,
15:34 very, very insufficient, but is the amount on the percentage of GDP, gross domestic product
15:39 that we spend on research and innovation trying to reach the 3%. I don't think this is really
15:44 the real problem. Europe mostly has a problem of diffusion of innovation rather than innovation
15:50 in and of itself, which is also a single market problem.
15:53 So the vision of living in a place that cherishes innovation and entrepreneurship, and where
16:00 citizens are surrounded by creative ideas and the possibility to access, you know, cutting-edge
16:06 ideas and have a chance at trying something new, that is perhaps the most aspirational,
16:12 most visionary part of the Letta report. Very difficult to translate into a concrete set
16:16 of actions. We know more or less how to do part of it, but changing the overall atmosphere
16:22 and the environment around you to create this sense of freedom is a different thing.
16:27 It's tricky. And if you look as well at where the highest concentration of AI, artificial
16:31 intelligence talent is in the world, it's India, South Korea, Japan and the United States,
16:37 and not here in Europe, Owen.
16:38 Well, there are lots of cultural and economic reasons for that. A lot of tech start-ups
16:45 still go to Silicon Valley to get their funding. Again, it all comes back to the capital markets
16:50 union about being able to access cash. But I do think personally there's also a cultural
16:54 element to this. It's the attitude to failure. The attitude to risk, I think, is a huge factor.
17:00 And I think for a long time we've kind of hidden behind the European social model in
17:05 the sense that, well, look, inequalities will never be as bad as in the United States because
17:11 of our social model. But actually, I think inequalities are also increasing in Europe.
17:17 There is a trend that, in my opinion, is a bit different at the moment. And we see researchers
17:21 coming back from the US into Europe for the first time looking for a better quality of
17:25 life. What we get in terms of figures is, of course, astonishing. The US captures 61%
17:32 of the venture capital on AI in the world. China, 17%. Europe, 6%. But if you look at
17:37 the researchers that we train in Europe in terms of education before, unfortunately,
17:41 they leave to go to Silicon Valley or Texas or North Carolina, actually, Europe trains
17:47 more leading AI researchers than the US. And so we have a chance, if we create the right
17:52 framework conditions and the capital markets union or the savings and investment union,
17:56 as Enrico Letta calls it, is one of those elements, and the availability of skills and
18:03 so on. That's super important. If we create those framework conditions, perhaps we can
18:07 invert this trend a little bit.
18:09 If we create those conditions, right? I mean, it's all about political will as well, Raquel,
18:12 at the end of the day.
18:13 It is. And if it comes down to the liberals to have a defining vote in that, and I'm sure
18:18 it will at some point in the near future, then I know that we're going to take the steps
18:23 that are needed in order to move Europe forward, our industry forward, protected from the threats
18:29 from outside, and be able to provide the jobs of the future for our own people and people
18:34 with that aspiration to come to Europe. Because let's be honest about this, it's not about
18:38 now, it's about what for economy we want for the next century. And that begins today.
18:44 And that will be, of course, the task of the future president of the European Commission
18:47 and the future European Parliament that is put in place, as of course, those elections
18:52 are taking place in a couple of weeks and months. But you sound very gloomy about all
18:57 that.
18:58 No, not necessarily. I think, you know, if we look at the opinion polls, and if we look
19:03 at what people, you know, are worried about in Europe, you know, I think the centre is
19:08 going to hold, the centre right is going to hold. I think if you look at the extremes,
19:13 particularly on the right, it's actually limited to two or three of the bigger Western European
19:17 countries. And certainly a lot of our research shows that on issues like migration, you know,
19:24 it's not that most people are in opposition to migration, it's that they're worried that
19:29 migration is out of control. And we've seen the EU act in, you know, whatever our concerns
19:35 be it on the left or the right. So I think I wouldn't be totally...
19:39 Well, on that more optimistic conclusion, we bring this conversation to an end, but
19:43 please stay with us because shortly, we'll be hearing how a group of economists and academics
19:48 want to see a permanent tax on the rich. See you soon on Euronews.
20:01 Welcome back to Brussels, my love with me Maeve McMahon. Now, one image that caught
20:06 our attention recently was this, an inflatable jet outside the European Parliament trying
20:11 to catch the attention of EU lawmakers to bring about a permanent wealth tax. NGOs insist
20:18 that an annual levy of 5% on billionaires in Europe could raise 250 billion a year.
20:25 They say while most of us have gotten poorer since COVID and of course, with the cost of
20:29 living crisis, the richest 1% own half of the financial wealth. Now, this is of course,
20:35 not the first time we've seen these calls and protests, protesters looking for a tax
20:40 on the rich. Raquel, what is your take on this? Are you in favour?
20:44 It's definitely a matter of fairness to tax the people who can carry the biggest burden.
20:49 And so we do have in our programme a millionaire's tax without wanting to put a percentage to
20:55 it. But we do feel that people who have little should not pay relatively more. And that is
21:02 the situation at the moment. I cannot explain that to my girlfriend who works in the supermarket.
21:07 So you're targeting even millionaires, not just billionaires. But according to a recent
21:11 study, 90% of the wealthiest people in Ireland pay less income tax than the average taxpayer,
21:17 many using tax credits and reliefs to cut their bills. Do you think this should be politically
21:21 addressed to stop fueling anger on the streets of your country, for example, and also inequality?
21:26 Well, it's very politically attractive to come out with this kind of slogan, tax the
21:30 billionaires, etc. But there's just multiple problems. And there's a reason why there's
21:35 so few wealth taxes and why probably France repealing most of the provisions of its wealth
21:41 tax a couple of years ago is the most obvious example. Now, I've read the report. A lot
21:47 of economists on the left would argue that Colombia is the example. They brought in a
21:52 wealth tax above assets on a certain level. But actually, what we've seen in Colombia
21:57 is that the millionaires and the billionaires, they just move their money across borders.
22:03 So I really think for me, it's a bit like the corporate taxes and the OECD scheme. If
22:09 you want to talk seriously about a global wealth tax, it has to be global.
22:13 Well, in reality, yeah, the majority of billionaires, the Elon Musk's, the Mark Zuckerberg's, they
22:17 have all their money in stocks and bonds. And if they took them out in order to pay
22:21 tax, the whole stock market could go upside down. What would be your view? I mean, would
22:26 you agree there with what NGOs argued that we could see 250 billion euros in our coffers
22:31 here, in our government's coffers, if we taxed these billionaires?
22:35 The math is there, of course, but the math is a bit simple, meaning you have to understand
22:39 whether you'll be able to capture this wealth, whether there will be reactions, meaning the
22:43 wealth will just move to other countries or other ways have been invested. But the principle
22:47 is there, and I think it's gaining more traction. So I actually support the idea. The idea can
22:52 only be realized if Europe does it in a very integrated way and proposes a global agreement.
22:56 And second, whether we establish a system of data exchanges between the tax authorities
23:02 that is even more efficient than the one we have today, which is already more efficient
23:07 than in the past, we're better able to capture where the money goes than we were 10 years
23:13 ago. And that is already what makes this potential tax more feasible. But, you know, the empirical
23:21 reality is that the principle that many of us have in our constitutions, which is a tax
23:28 system should be progressive, reaches a certain level where the middle class maybe pays more
23:34 than the lower income classes, and then goes down in the sense that they're very wealthy.
23:40 Because the middle class are feeling the pain now. I mean, they're feeling really squeezed
23:42 from all sides. I just want to take a listener account to the protesters that were out on
23:46 the streets there in Brussels and hear why they believe that taxing the rich would address
23:49 the inequality that we see in the world.
23:52 The only way to push policymakers to indeed tax the rich is to build up public pressure,
23:58 you know, because if there's no public pressure, they're not going to do it. Their own high
24:01 salaries, they basically get them very, very close to these billionaires, these millionaires.
24:06 So they're too chummy with each other, right?
24:09 So the consequences for not taxing the rich is that today we've been through multiple
24:13 crises, the inflation, the cost of living crisis, the pandemic. And we see that it's
24:18 mainly the normal people that are paying the cost of those crises. We know where the money
24:23 is. This is not rocket science. It's in the pocket of the super rich. And so that's why
24:28 we need to tax them.
24:29 They're the biggest polluters and they're the ones who should pay the most. And if we
24:33 are able to have a wealth tax on the super rich, we can have funds to help save our planet,
24:39 funds to help communities that have been affected by the climate disaster, including farmers.
24:44 Protesters are stating why they believe public pressure is the only way to make this kind
24:48 of tax happen. But Raquel, you're originally Spanish, even though you're running for the
24:51 elections in the Netherlands. Spain has already introduced this kind of a tax, not Pedro Sánchez
24:56 there introduced a temporary one.
24:58 A temporary one.
24:59 Is that working?
25:00 Yeah. Well, I'm not sure how exactly it's working. It's also a very short period of
25:03 time to be able to measure results. But I do think that it's important to keep stressing
25:08 why do we do this? No one likes to pay taxes. We can all agree.
25:11 It's a very emotional topic, isn't it?
25:15 And what the members of the NGOs just said in the video, we want the best roads, the
25:21 best trains, the best industry, the sustainable jobs of the future. And we want our middle
25:26 class people who are having a hard time to have more money in their pockets at the end
25:30 of the month. We want to pay for a lot of things. We have to find that money somewhere.
25:35 This is one way. But let's not forget the companies who benefit the most from the single
25:40 market, back to the single market. They are the ones who are paying relatively the lowest
25:46 taxes. We don't think that's fair as they exist.
25:49 And neither do people, because according to a Eurobarometer, this is a major priority
25:53 for people. Seven and 10 as well. People feel that taxing the rich and taxing big business
25:59 and big corporations to support the poor would be a priority for them.
26:02 Well, yes, exactly. But I think in the short term, a much more realistic and feasible approach
26:07 would be actually to properly implement the rules and taxes that are already there. Like
26:14 there's huge national variation in inheritance taxes, capital gains taxes. You know, there's
26:20 no inheritance tax in Austria. If you're a millionaire or billionaire in Belgium, just
26:25 put your money in property because the property taxes are very low.
26:27 There's no capital gains tax here. That's why we see a lot of French moving across here
26:31 and buying all the beautiful properties here.
26:33 Exactly. And tax evasion. Andrea has said we have made big, important steps the last
26:39 10 years. I think that the role of the European Public Prosecutor's Office can be strengthened
26:44 further and try to see if via that way we can help, well, help, we can prevent people
26:52 from moving their capital, especially from country to country.
26:55 But this is a topic that's very emotional, again, for countries, for member states. They
26:59 would never like to see an integrated system.
27:01 There's different views at the political level. There are people who think that attracting
27:05 investment and attracting wealth is a way for a country to become more competitive over
27:11 time. There's the people who think that wealth then trickles down to the lower income levels,
27:17 which we know it doesn't. And there's also the people that live on a daily basis, you
27:22 know, the sacrifices they have to make. And they understand that and they see that inequality
27:27 is increasing, right?
27:28 And we have the figures on that.
27:29 In an increasingly polarised society, tax has to be rethought.
27:32 Very interesting conclusion, Andrea Renda. Thank you so much for that. And thank you
27:35 to the rest of our panellists. And thank you so much for watching. Take care and see you
27:38 soon here on Euronews.
27:49 Welcome back to Brussels, my love, Euronews' weekend show. I'm Maeve McMahon and along
27:53 with my guests, we're sifting through some stories that we saw across Europe. And one
27:59 that caught our eye was this data zooming in on our drinking habits here in Europe,
28:04 as according to the World Health Organisation, Europeans are the heaviest drinkers in the
28:08 world, consuming 9.5 litres on average in the year 2020. And the European country that
28:14 consumes the most is Latvia, then Czechia, Lithuania. Have you seen this data? Does it
28:19 shock you, Eoghan?
28:20 No, it doesn't shock. It shocks me that Ireland isn't number one, but apart from
28:26 that, it doesn't really shock me. I would hope that we don't use these kind of figures
28:30 as another excuse to come up with some EU policy to regulate alcohol consumption. But
28:37 I think what it probably does highlight on a much more serious level is the significant
28:41 public health costs surrounding the misuse of alcohol. I know that in Ireland, the data
28:46 shows that 10% of the public health budget goes to dealing with the effects.
28:51 And of course, it's a link to the COVID pandemic as well and loneliness. I think Ireland is
28:55 one of the most loneliest countries in Europe, according to a Eurobarometer, and the Netherlands
29:00 the least loneliest. But we can hear actually how Latvians now feel about this label and
29:04 what they're actually doing to address it. We spoke to the Latvian sociologist, Aija
29:08 Zobena.
29:09 In Latvia, we are living in a period of change. And the change of people's habits are not
29:18 so rapid as changes in economic and political system. And it is also true concerning alcohol
29:26 consumption. Because in Soviet time, Latvia started to become a strong alcohol-using country.
29:36 And older generation still prefers strong alcoholic drinks.
29:41 Professor Aija Zobena there telling us some of the reasons why Latvia has that unfortunate
29:46 label really, Andrea. A reaction to that?
29:48 There are strong cultural elements, traditions, and many countries have their own different
29:55 relation to alcohol consumption, right? One of the shocking figures that we saw, not shocking
30:01 for me, but shocking for the French that we saw recently, is that consumption of beer
30:04 is increasing in France and consumption of wine is going down, right? So the social norms
30:10 behind drinking habits are very important. Unless we change those social norms and towards
30:15 less alcohol consumption, nothing's going to change. We can try shocking images on bottles,
30:20 taxes, and stuff like this.
30:21 That's what Ireland's doing. I mean, you were surprised that Ireland's not up top. But Ireland,
30:25 as of 2026, Raquel, will have labels up on the drink saying that there's a direct link
30:30 between alcohol and fatal cancers. And drinking alcohol causes liver disease. Is this a good
30:36 idea, do you think?
30:37 Well, I do think that member states, countries, are best positioned to understand what moves
30:42 people in their country, their own population, to reduce alcohol consumption. And I do think
30:47 that we have to pay attention to what's happening among the youth. And that's my biggest problem.
30:52 Look, I was in Brussels. When you're in Brussels and you have to deal with traffic, of course,
30:57 you do want to drink a beer or wine afterwards. It's horrible. For young people, it's becoming
31:02 an exit to a lot of other problems, social problems, loneliness, lack of connection with
31:08 others. We see in the Netherlands, binge drinking, not having a drink when you're 17, binge drinking,
31:14 growing up enormously in the group between 12 and 16 years of age. I'm a mother of three
31:19 young daughters. And I do have questions and worries about this for the future. So I do
31:24 think that that's where our focus should be for the next few years. How do we prevent
31:29 that excessive alcohol consumption begins at a very young age?
31:33 And who should take a handle on this?
31:34 Well, I think there's lots of different things where you can do lots of policy instruments.
31:38 There's real issues about alcohol companies sponsoring sporting events. We can look at,
31:43 you know, labelling. I think in Scotland and Ireland, they're looking at minimum pricing
31:48 because I think what a big problem is, particularly among students, is the below cost selling
31:53 by these large retailers.
31:54 And of course, there's a massive spirits industry as well here in Europe. But on that point,
32:00 this discussion comes to an end. Thank you so much, Andrea Renda, for being with us,
32:03 to Raquel GarcÃa Hermida for coming over and also Ondrej. As usual, if you have any
32:08 comments for us or suggestions on stories you would like us to dive into, you can reach
32:13 out. Our email address is brusselsmylove@euronews.com. We're also on Twitter, Instagram and even TikTok.
32:21 See you soon.
32:22 [Music]