#Macquarie launches #Vertelo-- $1.5 billion EV fleet solutions platform in India.
MD & India Head Abhishek Poddar discusses the services and future plans, in conversation with Tushar Deep Singh.
For the latest news and updates, visit: https://ndtvprofit.com
MD & India Head Abhishek Poddar discusses the services and future plans, in conversation with Tushar Deep Singh.
For the latest news and updates, visit: https://ndtvprofit.com
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TVTranscript
00:00 Hello and welcome to NTV Profit. Joining us today is Mr. Abhishek Poddar. He's the country
00:04 head for Makairi in India. He's speaking to us shortly after Makairi unveiled an EV financing
00:10 platform called Vertelo. Mr. Poddar, very welcome to NTV Profit.
00:14 Thank you for having me over.
00:15 First of all, what is Vertelo? Can you just take us through the journey of setting up
00:19 this particular EV financing platform, so to speak?
00:23 Yeah. Vertelo is what we're calling as an integrated EV free solutions platform. What
00:27 that means is it's a platform that will enable a seamless transition of vehicles from the
00:34 ice or the diesel world to electric world and address each of the constraints that comes
00:39 along with it. And how we are enabling the same? We're enabling by providing leasing
00:44 and financing solutions to operators. We're enabling the same by providing charging infrastructure,
00:49 fleet management services like maintenance, insurance, battery management services, and
00:54 end of life. So addressing all the constraints that comes when an operator looks at using
01:00 electric vehicles. And our initial focus is on the heavy transportation, which are the
01:05 buses, the four-wheeler fleets, trucks, which are the real polluters and the big CapEx customers.
01:11 All right. You spoke about seamless transition, but we know it's not been seamless so far.
01:17 The EV financing space has been a challenge, so to speak. Banks have been wary. Maybe they're
01:22 warming up to the idea of funding EV purchases. Where does Vertelo fit in in that situation?
01:30 What different are you going to do so that all these fleet operators can trust you, so
01:35 to speak, for their financing needs? Vertelo fits in right in the middle of where
01:39 the problem is. You're absolutely correct. The conventional banking system is still not
01:43 there in terms of both the size of the capital availability as well as the terms of the capital.
01:50 When I go back, when renewables were first starting off in India, we had exactly the
01:55 same problem. And the constraints comes in because of the risk of the unknown. These
02:00 are new vehicles. You don't know how they're going to perform. The concession frameworks
02:04 may not always be most trustworthy. Private sector cash flows are not. And that's where
02:08 we are coming in. And the way we are able to take those calls, we're looking at deploying
02:13 large amount of capital. As we announced, we're looking at putting in about $1.5 billion
02:18 of capital under play over the next few years or thereabout. So it's a scale play to our
02:24 operators and customers. We're looking at solutions which make sense. So longer term
02:30 solutions rather than for a bus operator. It's not just a three, four, five year. We're
02:34 looking at seven, eight, ten year of tenure of the concessions to be provided. We are
02:39 happy, as I said, taking the end of value, end of residual value risk as well. And the
02:44 way we are enabling the same are through few folds. We have taken similar positions globally.
02:49 So there is a global knowledge and understanding that we're able to bring in the Indian market
02:53 space, plus also tying up with a whole host of ecosystem. So there are partnerships that
02:58 we've done with OEMs. There are partnerships that we're doing with charging infrastructure
03:02 players. There are partnerships that we're doing with battery manufacturers. So seamlessly
03:06 bringing the ecosystem to offer that service to the customer.
03:09 So you are also setting up an NBFC to this end and you're applying a license with the
03:14 RBI, as I think you spoke with us earlier. So give us, talk to us about the structure
03:19 of this platform. Who are the investors? Who are the stakeholders? How much money you are
03:24 putting in? How much money your partners are putting in?
03:26 Yeah, absolutely. So in total, we are looking at putting in about $400 million of equity
03:32 in this entire platform. Green Climate Fund, which is a UN entity, has committed to $200
03:40 million of equity. And balance $200 million is something that we are looking at bringing
03:45 as capital of our funds and that of our investors. And over time, leverage this platform to create
03:51 that book of the scale that we spoke about. The platform will have two main entities.
03:58 The first entity, which is already in place, which is providing operating leases as well
04:03 as services. And as you rightly pointed out, we will be applying for an NBFC to RBI. And
04:08 once we have that, the idea is to a customer, we should be in a position to provide whatever
04:15 solution. They want a credit or financial solution. That's where NBFC comes into picture.
04:20 They want an operating solution. That's where the operating lease comes into the picture.
04:23 So our idea is to live with the customer and the entire journey rather than them running
04:28 around to look for the partners. And the partners you're talking about, are
04:32 you looking at both private partnerships as well as public partnerships? We know you have
04:36 announced you deal with Celo, which is the best deal concession plan. So in that sense,
04:43 you're working with both private and public. And how does the subsidy or concession mechanism
04:49 come into play? In addition to that, how far can we go with the subsidy and concession
04:54 mechanism going ahead? And how crucial is it still for the EV space in India?
04:58 Yeah, absolutely. I think two or three very important elements to it. First and foremost,
05:02 we are agnostic of who the end provider or user be. It could very well be under a public
05:10 sector concession framework, as you rightly said, is what happens with Celo. Or it could
05:16 be a pure play private sector. So we are having various conversations in the market about
05:22 deploying assets with operators who are looking at putting buses between two cities or with
05:28 four-wheeler fleet taxi aggregators. So we are agnostic of the underlying side.
05:34 On the subsidy aspect, we don't have a consistent subsidy framework. It varies a bit, S2 to
05:40 S2 versus, say, let's say a GCC contract. In some cases, as asset owners, subsidies
05:45 will come directly to us. In some of the other cases, it may go to the operator and may get
05:50 directed back to us. But as asset owners, whatever is subsidy available, we will ensure
05:55 that that benefit is passed on to our operators as well.
06:01 Subsidy is an important aspect for kick-starting any industry, but cannot be the only way an
06:08 industry economics stand. In all our transactions, when we are evaluating, we look at the fundamental
06:15 economics of the business and then only take a position. If subsidy is the only way to
06:21 do about this, we'll possibly shy away from making those investments.
06:27 In all special conventions that we have had so far, you're trying to own the entire value
06:32 chain of EV financing from deployment for fleet till the end of life, as you said. A
06:38 crucial position in between is the charging infrastructure. We know that range anxiety
06:43 is the number one problem that fleet operators or even private owners have. What are you
06:49 doing to that extent as far as setting up charging infrastructure in India is concerned?
06:53 Absolutely. As you rightly brought out, this is an important element. Unlike the ICE vehicle
06:59 where you've got petrol pumps all over, a vehicle runs out of juice, you go to the petrol
07:05 pump, jack it in, fill it up. Here you don't have it. Unfortunately, it's a bit of a chicken
07:09 and egg what comes first. In order to address the same is within what
07:14 LOB we are looking at setting up the charging infrastructure as part of the overall fleet
07:18 solution because an operator will make money only when it is able to sweat the asset to
07:23 the fullest. We are happy saying we will set up the charging infrastructure that's linked
07:28 with the fleet. We are happy to sign up to certain SLAs so that the operators know that
07:34 at the end of the day, if the routes can be managed properly, there is available infrastructure
07:40 for them to fill it up. Hence, absolutely taking away the constraints or the risk that
07:45 comes along because of the range anxiety and unavailability of the fuel.
07:50 This is captive and not public infrastructure at this point of time?
07:54 Our charging infrastructure will have the base load come from our fleets but will also
08:00 get open to the public. At this stage, what we are not doing is setting up charging infrastructure
08:05 exclusively for public use. How are you bifurcating this $1.5 billion
08:11 deployment? Are they towards purchases of vehicles, as you said, about 2,000 buses from
08:18 JBM auto, about 2,000 electric cars from Tata Motors, two very big OEM players at this point
08:23 of time. What is the parts in which have you seen? How much is the charging part? How much
08:29 is the deployment part? Can you just take us through that?
08:31 A significant portion of the capital will go into vehicle purchase, given they are the
08:38 biggest capital customers. Charging infrastructure on an average will take 10 to 15% of the CAPEX
08:46 but has much longer implications. Some portion of our CAPEX will also go into ancillary services
08:54 and networks, for example, maintenance services provider, as well as setting up the technology
08:58 backbone to drive the entire business for us.
09:01 A couple of final questions. India has formulated a new EV policy which requires global OEMs
09:10 for 50% localization while setting up plants in India. Where do you see yourself fit in
09:15 to this India EV policy? I'm sure you're looking at it carefully. Where do you fit in?
09:19 I think for large-scale investors in India, especially in the context of this platform,
09:26 which is targeting the Indian EV market as well, the more localized manufacturing and
09:31 availability of components or equipment or batteries that is there, the better it is.
09:39 Especially in this context where the geopolitics are set up, the supply chain uncertainties
09:44 exist, the less we are exposed to the global supply chain, the better it will be for the
09:50 country and better it will be for this platform.
09:53 To that end, we're also looking at a little bit of a slowdown globally in EV adoption.
09:59 India is sort of an outlier. Was this the reason that you're betting this $1.5 billion
10:05 in India at this point of time?
10:06 I think not so much. It wasn't the slowdown in the global, but the excitement about the
10:12 Indian EV space. India is a fast-growing economy. Our automotive space is rising. It's people
10:23 who are aspirational, who are exposed to electric vehicles, who want the transition. Look at
10:29 our cities. It's polluted. If this is not the country where the last transformation
10:33 of EV will happen, where else will it be? It was those fundamental reasons why we chose
10:37 India for the scale play and not anywhere else.
10:40 How much electrification do you think we'll achieve by, say, 2030 or say by 2050?
10:45 Government has set up, you are aware, government has set up a 30% target. Even if we meet 50%
10:50 of that, that itself is a huge, huge transition. As I've always seen, short-term we fall short
10:57 of targets. In long-term, we always will exceed targets.
10:59 All right. Thank you so much, Mr. Bhaddar, for talking to us. Thank you viewers for tuning
11:03 in. This is Prashad for NDV Profit.
11:05 Thank you.
11:06 Thank you.
11:07 Thank you.
11:08 (dramatic music)